[HN Gopher] What We Know Now About Friday Night's Near-Disaster ...
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What We Know Now About Friday Night's Near-Disaster at JFK Airport
Author : bgc
Score : 54 points
Date : 2023-01-15 20:37 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (viewfromthewing.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (viewfromthewing.com)
| amelius wrote:
| So we don't have computers anticipating the movements of
| airplanes, and giving warning signals if necessary?
| sklargh wrote:
| We do but not to the extent that laypeople would think
| rational. Taxi instructions are verbal affairs. Hugely
| problematic in very busy airports. I will say that I am not
| sure how much automation would have helped. It does appear that
| this pilot had really lost situational awareness.
| asciimike wrote:
| Ish. See ADS-B
| (https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/adsb) and TCAS (htt
| ps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy...).
| It's mostly helpful in the air, not on the ground.
| cm2187 wrote:
| Stupid question but can't they use a system of traffic lights
| before crossing a runway?
| pedalpete wrote:
| Are we're relying on pilots who are holding many many things in
| their heads to follow only the verbal directions of air traffic
| control?
|
| Two alternatives that I would think would be fairly easy to
| implement.
|
| 1) Google maps style directions input by air traffic control
| showing as well as telling the pilot what runway/path to runway
| to take.
|
| 2) Coloured lighting directing the pilot to the right runway via
| the correct path. Then the pilot only needs to know that they are
| following blue, and when it's time for them to move, blue comes
| up.
|
| I understand this would be more work on the part of ATC, where
| right now they can verbally communicate, but a system such as
| this may also help ATC relieve some of the mental load.
|
| Is this already happening? I can't find any links to suggest it
| is.
| bgc wrote:
| Related to (2) is an RWSL[0] system, which was supposedly in
| use at the time of this event and is designed to stop exactly
| this sort of thing... whether it was functioning, the pilots
| didn't see it, etc, will surely come out in the ensuing
| investigations.
|
| [0] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/rwsl/
| tobinfricke wrote:
| Re #2: We already have something like this at some airports. I
| wonder whether it was available on the runway/taxiway in
| question?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runway_status_lights
| tobinfricke wrote:
| Seems like the particular intersection where this incident
| occured is supposed to be protected by RSL:
|
| https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/technology/rwsl/media/JFK.pd.
| ..
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| My understanding is that there is a shit ton that is and always
| has been happening in this area. Air safety is the leading
| sector in standards for safety training.
|
| We are relying on checklists, procedures, surveillance tech,
| simulation training, certification, re-certification etc. etc.
| No other industry has put in as much thought into these
| problems. Except for maybe the military.
|
| Source: I had the opportunity to meet and participate in crisis
| resource management training for surgeons held by a trainer
| from pilot training industry. Everyone's mind was blown because
| surgery is comparatively in the Middle Ages.
|
| Based on seeing and hearing about it I believe that more ideas
| have been studied and tested than you'd expect. Cognitive
| overload in crisis situations is a well researched problem.
| Probably hard finding links on the subject though.
| edgyquant wrote:
| Space flight is the one industry with a better track record
| I'd say.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| Take a look at:
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crew_resource_management
| crooked-v wrote:
| > 1) Google maps style directions input by air traffic control
| showing as well as telling the pilot what runway/path to runway
| to take.
|
| Now you've added one more thing for the pilot to look at
| instead of actually looking out the windows.
| moloch-hai wrote:
| I hate that they call this having a "near-collision". They came
| close to having a collision, and might have had one without
| emergency action, but there was nothing like any sort of
| collision.
| Nicksil wrote:
| >I hate that they call this having a "near-collision"
|
| >They came close to having a collision
|
| What?
|
| >but there was nothing like any sort of collision
|
| Because "near"
| moloch-hai wrote:
| No bad thing happened, except Delta cancelling its flight.
| The bad thing was prevented by quick action.
| Nicksil wrote:
| >No bad thing happened
|
| Right, because "near." It's in the title.
| jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
| "Near collision" in this case is perfectly ordinary english
| phrasing. It does not assert a collision happened.
| [deleted]
| sklargh wrote:
| I am curious if the "hurry-up" ATC atmosphere at KJFK will be
| flagged as a contributing factor to this incident.
| m_a_g wrote:
| > strong kudos are due both to the air traffic controller who
| called off the Delta 737 and to the pilots of that plane who
| managed to abort their takeoff and stop the aircraft before it
| crossed runway 31L where the Boeing widebody passed in front of
| it
|
| Can't agree more
| dado3212 wrote:
| Is there any aggregation of near misses? How often do things like
| this happen?
| bgc wrote:
| Sibling has the links to the authoritative data from the FAA, a
| search for "runway incursion" at AvHerald[0] will also yield
| some relevant info.
|
| [0] https://avherald.com/ (may be hugged to death right now
| between this event and the turboprop crash in Nepal)
| [deleted]
| asciimike wrote:
| Not quite an answer to the exact question, but the FAA does
| publish hot spots (overview:
| https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/hotspots, full list:
| https://aeronav.faa.gov/afd/29Dec2022/All_Hotspot.PDF).
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| https://www.faa.gov/data_research/accident_incident
|
| https://www.faa.gov/airports/runway_safety/statistics/
|
| https://www.asias.faa.gov/apex/f?p=100:93:::NO:::
| vcanhoto wrote:
| I'll be eagerly waiting for the Mentour Pilot[0] incident
| analysis.
|
| [0] https://youtube.com/@MentourPilot
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(page generated 2023-01-15 23:00 UTC)