[HN Gopher] Gimp 2.10.32 on Apple Silicon (2022)
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       Gimp 2.10.32 on Apple Silicon (2022)
        
       Author : wiihack
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2023-01-15 19:16 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.gimp.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.gimp.org)
        
       | aroman wrote:
       | Why not offer this as a universal binary? Seems like a bunch of
       | extra work to generate two separate DMGs and try to point users
       | to the right one...
       | 
       | Regardless, congrats to the team! Though, I'll note this blog
       | post is from almost 6 weeks ago now.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | GIMP is already a pretty big download (~240MB), so saving users
         | another significant fraction of that is nice. Also helps keep
         | their mirrors' costs down.
        
         | dspig wrote:
         | Along with the other answers here, using a newer Xcode and
         | macOS SDK in order to build for M1 can limit compatibility with
         | old macOS (OS X) versions.
        
         | emeraldd wrote:
         | I wouldn't be surprised to find they're using a build tool
         | chain that can't produce a universal build ... I've run into
         | that before ...
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | Mac users are well adjusted to having to pick the correct
         | binary by now and the consequences of getting it wrong are
         | fairly minor.
        
         | geraldcombs wrote:
         | If the GIMP team's experience is anything like ours
         | (Wireshark), it's because a significant percentage of your
         | dependencies are pathologically blind to the concept of fat
         | binaries, so you'd end up having to do the grunt work of
         | supporting fat binaries in both your application _and_ your
         | dependencies. It 's a lot easier to just add a CI builder for
         | each architecture and ship separate packages.
        
         | imoverclocked wrote:
         | I actually appreciate _not_ having universal binaries. I almost
         | always prefer to have a smaller footprint and the current app
         | for arm64 is 874.4 MB according to Finder.
        
         | jcelerier wrote:
         | hmm as a user I really don't like downloading binaries that are
         | almost twice the size needed and of which I won't use half of
        
       | chongli wrote:
       | I know a lot of people like to bash on the Gimp and complain
       | about features it's been missing for years (I might have even
       | done some of the complaining myself!) but I really appreciate the
       | work they're putting into it. This kind of low-level work with an
       | ancient codebase can be pretty nontrivial and thankless work.
       | Thanks, Gimp team!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | below43 wrote:
       | I have been a loyal Gimp user since early days. I never found the
       | MacOS experience to match that of the Linux or Windows
       | environments.
       | 
       | Pixelmator has been a suitable and far superior replacement. It
       | might not be Photoshop level capabilities but it more than covers
       | my requirements.
        
         | Rimintil wrote:
         | Affinity tools are great.
        
         | lynndotpy wrote:
         | This is my experience entirely.
         | 
         | I've been using GIMP for most of my life, but a lot of little
         | things are off on Macs. My GIMP experience translates nicely to
         | Pixelmator
        
         | WXLCKNO wrote:
         | I just use photopea in the browser these days. It's pretty much
         | exactly Photoshop, at least for my non-advanced purposes.
        
         | janalsncm wrote:
         | Totally agreed. Specifically, I can never get the "ants" that
         | should show up when you select something. It's an ongoing bug
         | that was just never fixed. So I just have to remember that a
         | thing is selected. Quite irritating.
        
           | nightfly wrote:
           | I've had the ants working in my install since 2.10.28
        
           | Steuard wrote:
           | The "ants" got fixed sometime in the past few months, I
           | believe, and thank goodness: it really did make GIMP almost
           | impossible to use for anything complicated enough to need
           | GIMP. (But they've been working on my M1 Mac for a while
           | now.)
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _GIMP Turns 27_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33808435
       | - Nov 2022 (291 comments)
        
       | Kjeldahl wrote:
       | In 2016, I identified and wrote about the lack of retina support
       | for Gimp here https://artplusmarketing.com/gimp-and-inkscape-on-
       | retina-mac... . I know Inkscape got retina support since then,
       | but as I understood it, Gimp was waiting for better Mac GTK
       | support or something. Does anyone know if Gimp has fixed the
       | retina issues I wrote about years ago yet?
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | You'll want GIMP 3.0 which updates the app to GTK 3. 2.10 still
         | uses GTK 2.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | MaintenanceMode wrote:
       | I hadn't touched Gimp in five years or more but last month I had
       | to slice up some large images for easier printing and Gimp
       | rescued the project. I found it easy to use, mostly intuitive,
       | the install was easy, the UI was snappy, and all of the features
       | I needed were available. I have to give a big thanks to their dev
       | team for providing this software and saving me from the Adobe
       | nightmare.
        
       | bigdict wrote:
       | What's so hard about porting to a new hardware arch? Why would
       | building for ARM Macs be any different than x86? Unless you have
       | assembly code it's just a matter of changing a compiler flag,
       | isn't it?
        
         | gdevenyi wrote:
         | Building open source software packages for apple is difficult
         | because you need to pay for apple computers to run the build
         | software.
        
           | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
           | This isn't true.
           | 
           | What is true is that if you want users to be able to just
           | download and run (rather than download, run an obscure
           | command, and then run your software), you have to pay Apple
           | to notarize your builds.
           | 
           | Fuck Apple for this.
        
             | Maursault wrote:
             | I'll never understand binary crybabies. Just build the damn
             | thing yourself.
        
             | GeekyBear wrote:
             | > rather than download, run an obscure command, and then
             | run your software
             | 
             | This also isn't true.
             | 
             | On a Mac (or on Windows) software that has not been
             | digitally signed will show a scary dialog box telling you
             | that software you download off the internet might be
             | malicious.
             | 
             | On the Mac, to bypass this, you just right click the
             | software and pick "Open".
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | That used to be true. With the latest versions of macOS,
               | you have to run                  xattr -rd
               | com.apple.quarantine ~/Download/TheDamn.dmg
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
         | A recent change in Ardour that used int128_t did not break on
         | ARM nor did it break on unoptimized x86_64 builds, but did
         | break on optimized x86_64 builds. That's just one example of
         | the sort of platform-specific madness that may need to be faced
         | and chased down.
        
           | aeonik wrote:
           | Just providing a link to stackoverflow discussion that seems
           | to relate to this, as I was curious about the details. Looks
           | like it was undefined behavior relating to casting pointers.
           | 
           | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/62738652/gcc-turning-
           | on-...
        
         | Cyph0n wrote:
         | Probably comes down to either inline assembly or dependencies,
         | or both.
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Yup, I don't know if Gimp does it, but speeding up image
           | filters is basically the perfect scenario where inline
           | assembly can have huge payoffs.
        
             | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
             | These days, compiler intrinsics are typically the best
             | approach to that stuff. Mostly.
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | Linux builds of GIMP already ran on arm64, as well as a
           | number of even weirder architectures (like mips or s390x).
        
         | garethrees wrote:
         | A couple of issues that came up for me when porting from x86 to
         | ARM recently:
         | 
         | 1. The x86 architecture gives programmers a lot of memory
         | ordering guarantees, so that communication of values between
         | threads does not usually need memory fences. ARM64 does not
         | give so many guarantees, meaning that multi-threaded code may
         | need additional memory fences to avoid data races. But data
         | races due to out-of-order memory updates are hard to diagnose.
         | 
         | 2. Page size in macOS is 4 kB on x86, but 16 kB on ARM, so if
         | someone has hard-coded the page size rather than calling
         | sysconf(_SC_PAGESIZE) this may need to be discovered and fixed.
        
         | c7DJTLrn wrote:
         | Aside from the points in the other comment, it takes time to
         | change the build/test/release process for a new architecture.
         | In some codebases it's a matter of adding a line to a Makefile,
         | in others it's writing hundreds of lines of Bazel and a new CI
         | pipeline.
        
       | snvzz wrote:
       | It also runs on VisionFive 2 (RISC-V proper), for what it's
       | worth.
        
       | coobo wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | Faaak wrote:
         | Did you really create an account for this useless comment ?
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | imoverclocked wrote:
       | I love that this project provides a torrent download. Nice and
       | fast for me and I feel like I'm less of a burden on their
       | mirrors.
        
         | lowercased wrote:
         | agreed. it downloaded faster than it took to 'install' the full
         | version to 'applications' folder. leaving a seed running for a
         | while to help out...
        
       | blep_ wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | theunamedguy wrote:
         | Porting complex applications (especially those written in C)
         | from x86 to ARM can be pretty non-trivial.
         | 
         | I can't speak to the GIMP code in particular, but I've done
         | several x86->ARM source ports of other complex software, and
         | each time there are things which work on x86 and don't work on
         | ARM, resulting in nasty crashes, or worse.
         | 
         | See here for one of those (not AArch64, but ARM nonetheless):
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22176285
        
           | pmeira wrote:
           | GIMP already supported ARM though, this is about "Apple
           | Silicon". Since the post itself doesn't mention specific
           | challenges, I guess it serves more to inform macOS users of
           | the availability than foster discussion or provide any
           | insight.
        
         | neilv wrote:
         | It's taking wins of open source, and handing them to closed
         | platforms.
        
           | rollcat wrote:
           | Would you rather see it locked down to a single "open"
           | platform?
        
             | imoverclocked wrote:
             | How else will GNU Hurd ever take off?
             | 
             | Sarcasm aside, I think making open source software work
             | everywhere is a win for open source. Making it run well is
             | yet another win.
        
             | neilv wrote:
             | I'd rather see more people using and contributing to the
             | genuinely open platforms. (This is an old problem, going
             | back decades.)
             | 
             | Part of it is a bit like an even older dynamic: "Why buy
             | the cow, when you can have the milk for free?"
        
       | shmerl wrote:
       | I wonder why Gimp doesn't get more backing like Blender to
       | increase the pace of development. Not enough interest from big
       | backers? Surely many would benefit from dumping Adobe if
       | alternatives could be on par.
        
         | ThatPlayer wrote:
         | I think the difference is the amount of competition. Blender's
         | alternative is Autodesk. Meanwhile there are plenty of
         | alternatives to Gimp as seen in these comments.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Krita kind of leads the pack in the "FOSS image editing
         | development fund" category with 17k/month. It's not the same
         | primary use case but there is enough overlap in what it can do
         | that I'd say GIMP is neither in the lead enough or
         | differentiated enough to garner significant support easily.
        
         | Euphorbium wrote:
         | There are lots and lots of alternatives, and gimp is worse than
         | every single one of those.
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | Its internal dev-people world is different and doesn't take
         | direct critique as opportunity (or compliment e.g. I want to
         | contribute with my better-outcome-vision) in the same way some
         | other projects do.
         | 
         | Not good or bad (unless you love one way more), more like
         | comparatively differing in that way
        
       | gardenhedge wrote:
       | Why is the Gimp website so useless. I wanted to see if they still
       | have the strange UI with floating windows but couldn't find a
       | screenshot of the actual software on the site.
        
         | badsectoracula wrote:
         | You can run GIMP in either single window or multiple windows
         | mode, there is a setting in the "Windows" menu that switched
         | between the two. The multiple windows mode is the default and
         | IMO works better if you are using a window maanager with a
         | virtual desktop dedicated to it (or graphics apps in general).
         | In my Window Maker-based setup i have a virtual desktop for
         | graphics apps and i have it configured to always place GIMP
         | windows in that virtual desktop. The main thing i'd like is
         | being able to preserve the tear-off menus across launches (GIMP
         | remembers the various window locations but always closes any
         | persistent menu windows).
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | Hasn't used floating windows by default for like 15 years.
        
       | pier25 wrote:
       | There days for minor adjustments I just use PhotoPea (the online
       | photo editor). If I need more than that I use Affinity Photo or
       | Photoshop.
       | 
       | The software that I would love to see running well on macOS
       | (Intel or ARM) is Inkscape.
        
       | mort96 wrote:
       | I'm still waiting for GIMP 3. At this rate I'm not convinced
       | it'll ever come out. GIMP kinda looks like a discontinued project
       | these days.
       | 
       | FWIW, the Intel version has always worked okay (well, as okay as
       | GIMP can feel) on Apple Silicon. It's blurry and low res and old-
       | feeling, but compiling for ARM can't fix that.
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-15 23:01 UTC)