[HN Gopher] Always look down in London: Pavement oddities
___________________________________________________________________
Always look down in London: Pavement oddities
Author : zeristor
Score : 217 points
Date : 2023-01-14 09:29 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (londonist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (londonist.com)
| stevesearer wrote:
| I have a hobby of posting these sorts of things around Santa
| Barbara while out running:
| https://www.instagram.com/santabarbaradetails/
|
| Most are survey markers, contractor stamps, road names, etc...
| Hani1337 wrote:
| And most importantly, because the streets are very slippery and
| the people look unhappy regardless.
| _a_a_a_ wrote:
| The 'Wood-block paving' I know of as wooden cobbles. Iron-shod
| horses apparently made a lot of noise on stone and IIRC
| experiments were done to reduce this, the best results being from
| using wood not stone for cobbling. So it was a noise reduction
| thing in essence.
|
| One of my locals is a coaching inn that goes back centuries.
| Where the coaches would have entered is covered by the building
| above and under that, where people now sit and drink, there are
| still wooden cobbles. I doubt they're from the original horse-
| time (which is only a century ago, or less), but there they are.
| ttyprintk wrote:
| Victory against fatbergs is impossible in the near term. As
| cities mature, and the use of flushable wipes becomes more
| accepted, fatbergs will appear in UK and the colonies.
| bell-cot wrote:
| A very easy, reasonable step would be to heavily tax wipes
| which made claims like "flushable", but failed to disintegrate
| (as toilet paper does) in the sewer.
| quadrifoliate wrote:
| It's trivial to stop the fatbergs caused due to flushable wipes
| if city administrations spend a few minutes thinking about
| _why_ people use flushable wipes instead of spending time and
| money in celebrity campaigns [1] against them.
|
| The conclusion is obvious - wiping with dry toilet paper is an
| inefficient, unhygienic, and sometimes painful way of cleaning
| yourself after defecation. Hence, people use wet wipes to "feel
| fresher", as the advertisements euphemistically put it.
|
| The solution is also quite straightforward - go all the way and
| replace most uses of toilet paper with bidets or washlets,
| following the lead of smart nations like Japan. Wet wipe usage
| will automatically plummet. City planners all over the world
| should be running campaigns promoting bidet usage and
| partnering with washlet companies instead of sternly wagging
| their fingers at wet wipe users.
|
| ----------------------------------------
|
| [1] https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/14/andy-
| serkis-p...
| ttyprintk wrote:
| We're way past talking anuses; we're in class-action lawsuit
| territory against being able to market the term "flushable".
|
| The buyers and users of wipes are changing diapers on little
| kids and old people, not on-the-go busy professionals. The
| immense concentrations in sewers are not correlated with
| office worker productivity. Wipes are convenient to do that
| in public. Only a few countries have enough trash cans nearby
| for the occasion.
|
| So, if someone is going to market the term flushable, I want
| them to be responsible for plumbing fiascos when it is.
| europeanguy wrote:
| I agree with your solution. However, changing such an
| ingrained habit isn't trivial at the society scale.
| lordnacho wrote:
| What are the weird bell-shaped things you find on the curb?
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5073443,-0.1227047,3a,75y,82...
|
| I've seen them in many places, can't think of what they're for.
| FartyMcFarter wrote:
| Probably just to prevent cars from driving over that area.
| Oxidation wrote:
| To stop vehicles driving over them. Often on corners[1] to stop
| HGVs cutting the corner off and driving the back end over the
| pavement.
|
| [1]:
| https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4860115,-0.102246,0a,42.9y,1...
| retube wrote:
| They're normally on the corners of junctions, I always assumed
| they were to stop vehicles turning too sharply and cutting over
| the pavement.
|
| Occasionally have seen a car stuck on top of one :)
| andylynch wrote:
| I unironically recommend following the World Bollard
| Association if you enjoy seeing these at work.
| OJFord wrote:
| Keeping cars to the road, they're just bollards essentially as
| far as I know - just more decorative.
| andylynch wrote:
| Bell bollards- they aren't just more handsome - they are also
| what's used when normal bollards aren't enough, they are able
| to stop heavier vehicles and far more resistant to damage.
|
| They are especially good at stopping trucks cutting corners
| and enforcing width restrictions.
| _Wintermute wrote:
| Originally to push any HGV trailers back onto the road if they
| cut the corner [0]. They also work really well at beaching
| drivers looking at their phones who would have otherwise
| mounted the pavement.
|
| [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FiV023ktLM
| unwind wrote:
| Here, HGV is probably "heavy goods vehicle" [1]. TIL etc.
|
| [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_goods_vehicle
| gokhan wrote:
| Check Ben Wilson's chewing gum art on the Millennium Bridge as
| well. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-
| b-d&q=millenniu...
| jlarcombe wrote:
| And dotted around the rest of London too! A lovely man, Muswell
| Hill legend.
| makingstuffs wrote:
| Thought it was going to say because the councils have no funding
| and our roads/pavements are so battered that you'll likely fall
| over and break your ankle if you're not careful.
| oedenfield wrote:
| And because the pavements are almost always uneven and made with
| many stones/pavers rather than poured asphalt or concrete.
| 2dvisio wrote:
| Nice to see Harrow in there. The wavy double yellow lines are
| down the corner from where I live and I always thought they would
| be a common thing...
| zeristor wrote:
| Not much love for Mr Benn, I just though an episode might
| explain:
|
| https://youtu.be/R3XVJ17uysM
| yardshop wrote:
| One could accompany this with the track "Looking Down on London"
| by the perfect pop band Komputer from their 90s album The World
| Of Tomorrow, if one liked Kraftwerk inspired electronica.
|
| It's not really about the same thing, just similar sounding
| titles, and a nice excuse to mention one of my old favorite
| albums!
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAk4D3Lszdo
| BerislavLopac wrote:
| Just looking at the first item I absolutely now have to share the
| amazing "Rivers of London" series of novels, comics and even a
| TTRPG: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Grant_(book_series)
| jonatron wrote:
| Barnmead Road ( https://goo.gl/maps/uGXKSum8azGJLbU29 ) has
| particularly terrible roads and pavements. It's actually
| deliberate, because it's a conservation area.
| doublesocket wrote:
| This isn't about being in a conservation area but rather the
| road being unadopted and therefore not maintained by the
| council. Beckenham is full of them.
|
| https://www.barkergotelee.co.uk/who-is-responsible-for-
| maint....
| the_mitsuhiko wrote:
| I lived in Beckenham right next to such a road and it was
| absolutely ridiculous. Cabs refused to drive on it because
| the potholes were so bad.
| jonatron wrote:
| https://assets.ctfassets.net/vval1fkv4s9j/L8XTFNyvaSewQWSMOw.
| ..
|
| > Some 19th century street furniture also remains, enabling
| the road to present an excellent understanding of the
| appearance of many residential areas in the era of horse
| transport. The council will promote the retention of the
| original street surfacing and furniture in the conservation
| area.
| doublesocket wrote:
| I stand corrected. There are still various other roads in
| Beckenham that are not inside a conservation area that are
| unadopted (and consequently in an absolute state).
| ljm wrote:
| Croydon has a bunch too. A friend was showing me around there
| a while ago and at one point we were walking down a wide road
| with no pavements, large-ish semi-detached houses on each
| side with decent front gardens.
|
| Was something I normally expected in upmarket rural areas and
| traditional villages.
| harywilke wrote:
| In Athens, Greece my favorite example of this is where you walk
| over the ancient city walls.
|
| There is a section of wall revealed by a dig in Kotzia square[1].
| The nearby paving traces the walls, and further on the National
| Bank is raised up so you can see the wall continuing on.[2]
|
| [1]
| https://www.google.com/maps/@37.9818329,23.7288448,120m/data...
| [2]
| https://www.google.com/maps/place/Acharnian+Gates/@37.980860...
| jphoward wrote:
| The hydraulic power utility is fascinating - the sheer amount of
| water lost via leaks from water piping in this century is huge,
| and so keeping a high pressure system running back then must have
| been tremendously difficult. Especially given a similar sized
| leak will have a much larger impact in a higher pressure system.
| dcminter wrote:
| I recall reading that during aome street works in the circa
| 1990s they discovered some 16th Century (?) _wooden_ drinking
| water piping still in use...
|
| The development of the water supply and sewerage in London is
| super interesting. See e.g. The New River Company and also The
| Great Stink.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| My wife did some work at a municipal water utility and they
| did find some wooden pipes in service in the early 2000s. The
| active ones are all gone, but they still find buried ones,
| especially around an old reservoir that was in the downtown
| area.
| kijin wrote:
| On the other hand, a leaking high-pressure pipe is extremely
| noticeable [1], so any damage was probably fixed asap instead
| of being neglected for ages.
|
| [1]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_York_City_steam_explo...
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| The "<--LOOK RIGHT" painting is genius. For person who only had
| one job, they took it to 11. Could be shocked if most people who
| see that note don't look both ways...
| twelve40 wrote:
| This is awesome! Didn't make it to London this past year, but
| everywhere from Paris to Barcelona to Istanbul had space invaders
| painted on houses. But i guess it doesn't count as "look down"
| zeristor wrote:
| I've seen space invader mosaics on walls in London
| alehlopeh wrote:
| These are done by an artist that goes by Invader. They're in
| a lot of cities.
| Jdstanhope wrote:
| Don't forget to look for the pieces of gum that have been painted
| everywhere. https://theculturetrip.com/europe/united-
| kingdom/england/lon....
| [deleted]
| am_lu wrote:
| There are markers on pavements where it crosses the Greenwich
| Prime Meridian line. Got one right outside my house.
|
| https://goo.gl/maps/d3pAJqGTJS1W4agT9
| tomhoward wrote:
| My favourite feature when looking down in London (as a foreigner
| who has only visited a few times, briefly)...
|
| The Stanton Warrior drain cover:
| https://www.google.com/search?q=stanton+warrior+drain+cover&...
|
| They were produced by Stanton Ironworks in Derbyshire, which
| closed in 2007
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilkeston#Stanton_Ironworks.
|
| Many of them must have been replaced with a different brand since
| then as I noticed fewer had the Stanton Warrior brand when I was
| last in London in 2019.
|
| The British electronic music producers The Stanton Warriors took
| their name from these covers -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanton_Warriors.
|
| (Also, at adds with the old Google interview brain-teaser, "Why
| are manhole covers round?" - they're rectangular. So I guess it
| they don't care so much if these ones fall in the hole, probably
| because they're not holes that workers go down into).
| kurthr wrote:
| Also recommend this in Tokyo!
|
| Great artwork and interesting stuff with many remaining ones
| effectively unique as they were put in by a particular locality
| for a time and then others have been removed.
| antihero wrote:
| Also grime artist Newham Generals were named after the
| hospital.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Manhole covers are round if they cover a pipe and square if
| they cover a brick built manhole.
|
| Your note about them not falling in makes me wonder if Google
| had a different answer?
| SECProto wrote:
| > Manhole covers are round if they cover a pipe and square if
| they cover a brick built manhole
|
| This is inaccurate as a generalization - in the three
| jurisdictions I've worked in, they're round if they're newer
| than ~1990, and mix of round and square (or two triangles
| that go together to make a square) if they're older than
| that. The frame and cover are replaced independently from the
| MH structure itself so the cover doesn't tell you anything
| about the makeup of the structure.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Not quite true. The cover itself has to be supported by a
| structure. The frame itself is insufficient. If you put a
| round cover on a square hole it would cave in if a truck
| ran over it.
| SECProto wrote:
| Catch basins in my jurisdiction have round covers on a
| square structure. The cast iron frame is square with a
| circular hole in the top.
|
| Edit: for example
| https://maps.app.goo.gl/m8rR4vrPHBPTyXxo9
| TomWhitwell wrote:
| This is my favourite 'always look down in London'
| https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-buried-remains-of-li... -
| an old road running well below street level but visible through a
| grate
| Foobar8568 wrote:
| I always look down when walking just for one reason, dog shit (if
| lucky).
| cmehdy wrote:
| I genuinely read the title as "always look down on London" and my
| French mind was as vindicated as it was puzzled by it. The
| article however is much more interesting and full of those little
| things that make living in old and beautiful cities worth it. In
| Paris I found that looking at walls (and decorations), street
| layouts and names, could offer similar journeys.
| jansan wrote:
| People from Berlin are used to look down all the time in order to
| avoid dog shit on the pavement.
|
| When I was looking for an appartment in Berlin, at one viewing
| appointment there were about 20 other people interested in the
| same appartment. It was quite nice, but there was an insufferable
| stink everywhere inside that appartment. After we left I noticed
| that I had stepped into dog poop before and the reason for the
| smell was the dog shit stuck to my shoe. I applied and
| surprisingly there were almost no other applications, so I got
| accepted. The appartment never smelled that bad again :)
| [deleted]
| FastEatSlow wrote:
| I'll be keeping this in the back of my mind, just in case. /s
| Growtika wrote:
| Great article. Made me search for cool stats about manhole.
| Apparently there's a site dedicated only for manhole from around
| the world
|
| https://manhole.co.il/
| paganel wrote:
| Really cool project, bookmarked.
|
| For those interested, for Bucharest there's this [1] blog-post
| with a few photos of some old manholes. In here [2] there's a
| list of links from the same project to posts that present some
| old stuff from and around Bucharest (the text is in Romanian,
| but there are lots and lots of photos that are self-
| explanatory).
|
| [1] https://www.simplybucharest.ro/?p=36671
|
| [2] https://www.simplybucharest.ro/?page_id=12112
| krsdcbl wrote:
| Made me think of this Berlin based artist:
| https://raubdruckerin.de/
|
| She uses manhole covers to create prints, "Raubdruck" means
| "pirated edition" but literally it's "stolen print"
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| I've been taking pictures of manhole covers for around 10 years
| now. Well, manhole covers, drainage gates, square access
| covers, and so on.
|
| Locally, the challenge is an interesting, somewhat artistic,
| usually (but not always) urban picture. I've already taken a
| picture of most designs I see, after all. In any other city,
| I'm catching the design first. (Tromso, Norway has a reindeer!)
|
| I'm not all that surprised there is a website to catalogue them
| and am always kind of happy to be reminded that others have the
| same fascination.
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| Other things to look out for:
|
| - Every tube station has a "labyrinth" to find.
| https://art.tfl.gov.uk/labyrinth/about/
|
| - Vehicles drive on the left hand side in the UK. Except at the
| entrance to the Savoy, where road markings make it clear they
| must drive on the right.
|
| - We love roundabouts. Londonist has a nice article on some of
| the weird things you can find on some of them here:
| https://londonist.com/london/secret/the-strange-things-you-c...
|
| - When using transport, the normal rule of thumb is that the
| underground will be quicker than a bus or even a taxi on many
| journeys, but sometimes walking beats even that. TfL has a tube
| map that helps you figure that out (check out Covent Garden to
| Leicester Square - a 90 second tube journey that takes at least
| 8-10 minutes due to the depth of the line):
| https://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-tube-map.pdf
| js2 wrote:
| > We love roundabouts
|
| "Look kids, there's Big Ben! Parliament!"
|
| _National Lampoon 's European Vacation_ (1985):
|
| https://youtu.be/iAgX6qlJEMc
| atonse wrote:
| I don't know why this scene is so memorable. My older brother
| and I last saw this movie 30 years ago and we still remember
| and laugh about this scene when we think of London.
| dylan604 wrote:
| Chevy Chase's laugh/cry moments of utter hysteria and
| derangement have always made me laugh at/with those scenes
| even more so as I've gotten older as I can totally relate.
| PebblesRox wrote:
| The Savoy entrance on Google Maps, in case anyone else is
| curious.
|
| Does anyone know why they have drivers enter on the right
| instead of the left? Does it make valet parking faster or
| something?
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5106158,-0.1210778,3a,17.4y,...
| xvedejas wrote:
| It makes it easier for the driver/chauffeur to get out and
| open the passenger's (rear, driver-side) door.
| Maursault wrote:
| That may be true, but it's not quite that.
|
| _In Savoy Court, vehicles are required to drive on the
| right. This is said to date from the days of the hackney
| carriage when a cab driver would reach his arm out of the
| driver 's door window to open the passenger's door (which
| opened backwards and had the handle at the front), without
| having to get out of the cab himself. Additionally, the
| hotel entrance's small roundabout meant that vehicles
| needed a turning circle of 25 feet (7.6 m) to navigate it.
| This is still the legally required turning circle for all
| London cabs._[1]
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy_Hotel#Savoy_Court
| pbalau wrote:
| Hackney carriages still exist. And a great deal of them
| made the move to electric. That's just another name for
| car for hire or taxi.
|
| That was a til for me too, i though that means the shape
| of the vehicle.
| extraduder_ire wrote:
| > That's just another name for car for hire or taxi.
|
| There's a legal distinction between taxis and hackneys.
| Taxis can be taken from a taxi rank or flagged down, but
| hackneys must be called to collect you. I'm sure there
| was a reason for the distinction at some point, but it
| remains.
| midasuni wrote:
| A hackney cab is a type of taxi (one used in london), and
| can be hailed. A mini cab must be pre booked, like Uber
| or Addison Lee.
| rahimnathwani wrote:
| There's also a geographically accurate map:
| https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/224813/response/56039...
|
| https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transparency/freedom-of-informa...
| europeanguy wrote:
| > We love roundabouts
|
| Context for our American friends. This isn't specific to
| London. Everywhere I've lived in Europe is more roundabout-
| heavy than the USA. Because, you know, they're objectively
| superior ;-)
| classichasclass wrote:
| Just got a new one near our house. Greater Los Angeles. My
| wife, an Aussie, is delighted.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| They are also spreading in the USA. New Jersey has had them
| for quite a long time, and is building more. I've been
| surprised to see them as an apparent new default for new
| intersections in central Wisconsin where my wife's family is
| from. There are even some new ones being added around Santa
| Fe where I live.
| coyotespike wrote:
| Yes, I agree both that they are objectively superior and
| that happily they are spreading!
|
| At first I would see people treat them like a slight curve
| in the road and blow through them, but we seem to have
| figured them out now
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| The ones in Indianapolis suck because heavy traffic flows
| can blow through as a train, completely blocking entry
| from other directions.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| Any SF-based Adobe employee will attest to the novelty of
| working next to The City's only rotary.
| tedd4u wrote:
| Many of the ones popping up in San Francisco at 4-way
| intersections RETAIN four stop signs ... <facepalm>
| xvedejas wrote:
| The ones I've seen are really more of a half-hearted
| traffic-calming measure than proper roundabouts. The
| intersections I can think of, they're in residential
| neighborhoods and there's just some new island in the
| middle of a four-way stop. It might be impossible to widen
| these into proper roundabouts due to the houses up to the
| property lines?
| antisthenes wrote:
| >objectively superior*
|
| *Given that the roundabout is fed by single-lane streets with
| low traffic and excellent visibility and no stop signs before
| entry, which would otherwise negate the advantage of quicker
| entry.
| LarryMullins wrote:
| Single-lane roundabouts aren't very uncommon in America.
| Maybe not as common as in the UK, but they're definitely
| around and virtually every driver in America should be
| familiar with them. There will always be a few fools who
| don't grok them, but the same can be said for any aspect of
| driving.
|
| I think when Americans say they're baffled by UK
| roundabouts, they're almost always talking about the huge
| multi-lane roundabouts. Those, to me, are nightmare fuel.
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| My French relatives are always impressed with the (mostly)
| civil behavior at 4 way stop signs in California and claim
| they would never work in France. It's funny to me because
| every time they visit, they comment on them. I left France
| too young to know if they are right though.
| mytailorisrich wrote:
| How do they work in California?
|
| I think what your relatives mean is that if everyone has a
| stop then it'll be messy because everyone will try to go
| first after they have stopped...
|
| Here in the UK they have installed 2 stops and 2 give ways
| at a nearby crossing and it's already quite dangerous
| because no-one is sure what to do: those with give-ways
| think they should go before those with stops, those with
| stops think they should go first if they arrived first...
| honking ensues very often. If you're lucky it ends in a
| very British "you go first, no you go first" contest, which
| is not very practical, either.
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| you stop and go in the order you arrived to the stop
| line.
| kergonath wrote:
| That sounds dangerous. It's not uncommon for different
| people to order events differently, I can see two cars
| crossing at the same time, each driver convinced to be
| first.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| For near-simultaneous arrivals the right of way goes to
| the driver on the right.
| serf wrote:
| given that people _generally_ don 't spin their tires off
| the line from a stop sign, it's fairly safe. If it's
| obvious that two people are going at the same time then
| one that has advanced less far in that time will
| _generally_ ease off the throttle and let the more
| advanced party continue.
|
| there are accidents, of course, but i'm not sure of any 4
| way traffic junction that's infallible.
|
| and as others stated, right-of-way rules are observed
| atop the social norms.
| bigmattystyles wrote:
| It does lead to quite a few 'what the f.. arms up..
| stares' when there is a perceived violation but it works.
| Probably because the cars within the stop signs are going
| relatively slow.
| post-it wrote:
| Europe is definitely heavier on environmental design to
| enforce behaviours rather than signs, as nobody will obey a
| sign if they can get away with it.
| LarryMullins wrote:
| I think most people obey 4-way stop-sign intersections
| because they're afraid of getting T-boned by another car,
| not because they obey signs for the sake of obeying
| signs. People ignore signs when they can get away with
| it, but a 4-way stop-sign intersection is not such a case
| to anybody but the suicidally reckless.
| eropple wrote:
| New England sits back smugly with our _rotaries_ and judges
| you all. Politely--but we do.
| throwaway1777 wrote:
| They are increasingly common in new developments in the US,
| but no one is spending money to retrofit old intersections
| (rightly so I think)
| ganjatech wrote:
| No one except beautiful Portland, Maine. And probably loads
| of other towns in New England.
| andrepd wrote:
| They do take a huge amount of space, unfortunately.
| gorgoiler wrote:
| London traffic lights are all equipped with PCATS -- pedestrian
| countdown at traffic signal. It's the timeout signal that shows
| how many seconds you have left to cross the road.
|
| The implementation is very hacker friendly. The PCATS counter
| is literally bolted onto the side of the existing lights and
| learns the pattern of the system to which it is attached by
| monitoring its behavior. There is basically all but an air gap
| between the counter and the lights themselves, and the counter
| is making an informed guess. They start their installation-
| lives having no idea how much time will be left.
|
| As such, each counter is equipped with a 4 bit error display to
| indicate its status -- out of sync, could not sync, faulty
| lights, etc. Keep your eyes peeled for little LEDs telling you
| something about the internal status of the system.
|
| Example: https://uk.yunextraffic.com/portfolio/traffic-signal-
| control...
|
| Error codes shown here, on page 7:
| https://content.tfl.gov.uk/PCaTS-Note-4-Technical-Specificat...
| sbuk wrote:
| Another cool feature of of pedestrian crossings (and I think
| this applies to the whole UK) is the accessibility aids.
| We're all used to beeping traffic signals, but did you know
| that on the underside of the control box there is a tactile
| cone that rotates when the green signal is active?
|
| https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/pedestrian-
| facilities-b...
| ranit wrote:
| > Vehicles drive on the left hand side in the UK. Except at the
| entrance to the Savoy, where road markings make it clear they
| must drive on the right.
|
| Similarly on Palatino bridge (Ponte Palatino) in Rome, vehicles
| drive on the left side.
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(page generated 2023-01-14 23:00 UTC)