[HN Gopher] System76 AMD-Only Laptop Returns
___________________________________________________________________
System76 AMD-Only Laptop Returns
Author : bananicorn
Score : 138 points
Date : 2023-01-12 16:09 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (system76.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (system76.com)
| driverdan wrote:
| Still only 1920x1080. Come on, give us decent resolution screens
| already!
| vehemenz wrote:
| Or at least 1920x1200. It's amazing how much 16:10 helps on a
| small screen.
| yoyohello13 wrote:
| Honestly, the difference between 1080p and 1440p on a 14in
| screen is barely perceptible to me. I'd rather have the extra
| battery life.
| barbariangrunge wrote:
| I find it highly noticeable in a 13 inch screen
| 3np wrote:
| Try Chinese in smaller font sizes...
| xbar wrote:
| Thank you for a lesson in empathy.
|
| I would be satisfied with a taller 1920x1200 display but
| maybe you still wouldn't be.
| doix wrote:
| I run my 1440p screen at 1080p because my portable monitor is
| 1080p and I don't want to try and setup different scaling on
| different screens in X or move to Wayland. I'm happy enough.
| aliqot wrote:
| I run 4 different screens with different resolutions in X
| with no problem, no setup. Is there a specific error you
| run into?
| gibspaulding wrote:
| Not sure why you're getting down voted. This seems like a
| valid point. I'd also note that if you are connected to a
| larger 1440p external display, 1080p on the smaller one
| keeps the dpi closer so you don't have to use different
| scaling settings.
| 0x457 wrote:
| I've tried it. Don't do it.
| coder543 wrote:
| It is a 144Hz display, which makes it significantly more
| interesting than an average 1080p display. 60Hz just feels so
| stuttery these days.
|
| But, I agree that a higher resolution would be nice, and if I'm
| being completely honest... I would want OLED. Tons of
| affordable OLED laptops have come to market over the past year.
| jesuscript wrote:
| Why does 144hz matter to you if you aren't playing games?
| This is not a gaming machine. You absolutely will not notice
| the difference for non-gaming tasks between 60hz to
| 80hz/100hz/120hz/144hz/244hz.
| coder543 wrote:
| > You absolutely will not notice the difference
|
| If you make absolutes like that, then everything I could
| respond with is automatically "wrong", so that's not a
| great conversation opener.
|
| My smartphone is not a gaming monitor either, but 120Hz is
| hugely noticeable. My windows desktop is using a 144Hz
| monitor. I had a 120Hz MacBook Pro for awhile. I'm familiar
| with how I experience high refresh rate on different types
| of devices.
|
| You may not care, and that's fine, but what's the point of
| asking why I care and then telling me in no certain terms
| that I won't? And how do you know if I would be gaming on
| this or not? Valve has put immense effort into making Linux
| viable for gaming. If you're instead trying to say the
| monitor's response times suck, how do you know that
| already?
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Yeah, I jump between 60hz, 120hz, and 240hz screens several
| times a day and while the difference in smoothness is very
| visible, if I'm not gaming I forget about it very quickly.
| Personally for work machines I find high density
| (preferably integer scaling friendly) preferable over extra
| frames.
| jesuscript wrote:
| I agree, I would say higher resolution screens always pay
| dividends in coding (crispness, and real estate). I've
| been downgrading a 144hz monitor to 100hz in gaming and
| haven't noticed too much difference. I think I'd have to
| jump to 244hz for my own perceptibility to notice the
| difference in games.
| nullandvoid wrote:
| I absolutely do notice when my laptop screen defaults back
| to 60hz, instead of 144hz after some interactions.
| AnthonBerg wrote:
| Trust me, there are people who notice the difference. After
| having tried a good 120Hz display for work I now go out of
| my way to not need to work on 60Hz displays. It's more
| tactile, responsive and immediate. Smoother. Helps focus.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| Agreed. 1080 is probably a good proportion, but I'd prefer 4k
| resolution at 200% than native 1080.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Interestingly, it looks like System76 has 4k options for
| their Intel machines. Hopefully that's a sign of things to
| come on their Ryzen line?
| gjmacd wrote:
| Meh. I won't switch to a Linux laptop until I can get a
| reasonable resolution on the screen that matches my MBP's output
| for a reasonable price.
|
| I can't understand why I can't get a reasonably good priced
| laptop with just Linux that doesn't match the video resolution of
| a MBP.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| This is what kills me. At work, they only swear by HP for some
| reason. So, I've got a shitty Elitebook that cost, after RAM
| and SSD upgrades, within 100 euros of a same-size MBP with same
| RAM and SSD.
|
| But the build quality is uniformly worse. And the screen...
| it's an atrocity. You don't have to compare it to an MBP (I
| only have an old 2013 one, and it _still_ wipes the floor with
| it). Even compared to an older XPS (7th gen intel), it 's
| horrible.
| jesuscript wrote:
| What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming rig
| on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced. I
| imagine you can match their specs for this laptop at cheaper
| prices.
| myself248 wrote:
| They spend a lot of that money supporting upstream
| contributions, maintaining a first-class Linux experience,
| providing real support, and otherwise putting their money where
| their mouth is.
|
| Compare to almost literally any other laptop, where uttering
| the word "linux" gets you nothing more than a voided warranty
| and a strong YOYOMF, and some fraction of customers will see
| value in System76's approach.
|
| Pixel for pixel, watt for watt, you could do better elsewhere.
| But only with a Windows preload and jumping through hoops if
| you ever have a hardware failure and have to reinstall the
| preload to run some awful diagnostics before getting an RMA,
| for instance. Awful experiences like that really take away from
| the "value" of a cheaper machine, if your time is worth money,
| as I suspect it is.
| jklinger410 wrote:
| > maintaining a first-class Linux experience
|
| NVIDIA + Coreboot is not a linux-first experience by any
| stretch of the imagination. Unless you want to be stuck on
| POP OS for forever.
| jesuscript wrote:
| Guys, let's not go overboard with the hyperbole. I fully
| accept you guys wanting to support their PopOS endeavor, I
| totally get it. But let's not all act like we're all CEOs of
| megabillion dollar companies with boardroom meetings 24/7
| that we can't be bothered to fiddle with some common computer
| issues.
| time_to_smile wrote:
| Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or compared
| to other PC building companies?
|
| I purchased a Thelio Mira awhile back and have been happier
| with it than any other PC/laptop I've owned before.
|
| The big value add that System76 is having a Linux desktop that
| is guaranteed to just work out of the box the same way you
| would expect and Apple machine to work out of the box. In fact,
| I've probably had less issues with this machine out of the box
| than any new macbooks I've had in the past few years.
|
| I've built plenty of my own PCs before and run linux as my
| primary desktop multiple times, and my Thelio is a wildly
| better experience than in the past. The build quality is
| excellent and for the first time I can really use Linux as my
| primary desktop with no problems.
|
| Building a PC yourself is always going to be cheaper, and for
| many people that's the preferred path anyway. The point I'm at
| in my life I would much rather pay a premium to not have to
| worry about that at all (especially when it comes to hardware
| on linux).
|
| If anyone is look for a "just works" linux PC, I've found
| system76 to be a great experience.
| jesuscript wrote:
| _Wildly overpriced compared to building it yourself or
| compared to other PC building companies?_
|
| Both actually, the markup is extremely high on their stuff if
| you try to get a gaming rig from them.
|
| I built all my PCs since I was 13, and I can say it's not as
| involved as people think. You really kinda screw in the
| motherboard, pop in a cpu, and a graphics card/ssd (or if you
| have no need for a discrete GPU and you get one of those CPUs
| with decent integrated graphics, you are basically only
| popping in a CPU). There is like two wires that go from your
| PSU to mobo at best. The thing is pc hardware prices are
| already absurd since Covid, so when you add in this extra
| markup on labor, you are just getting something that's way
| beyond normal prices. You might look at a $1600 price tag and
| scoff at it as nothing, but its really a $800 dollar machine
| with all this extra stuff added or marked up. I've seen
| people look at $2000 pre built machines and just think they
| are crazy for buying at that price. It's like ... I don't
| even think its a money thing, it's like a scammy thing.
| Imagine if I show up and sell you a iPhone 10 at iphone 14
| prices. It's the principle of the matter.
|
| You know, there are some afternoons where I don't know what
| to do with myself. Setting up/building a PC is an hour for
| me. If it's new to you, it might be an afternoons worth of
| work. It's not an endless multi day fiasco, I promise.
| inetknght wrote:
| > _What makes their stuff so great? I was customizing a gaming
| rig on their site the other day and it was wildly overpriced._
|
| Try customizing an Apple product. It's also wildly overpriced.
|
| System76 provides top-tier support. That alone is expensive.
| jesuscript wrote:
| You can't get MacOS any other way reliably. I'm pretty sure
| you can get PopOS for free. Plus Apple makes pretty unique
| hardware. This is a totally unfair comparison.
|
| Compare to this instead:
|
| https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-seri.
| ..
|
| They also have a list of which of their laptops they tested
| with Linux:
|
| https://support.lenovo.com/pl/en/solutions/pd031426
|
| Again, System76 doesn't have a price yet for their Ryzen 7
| laptop so I can't say if this Lenovo is overpriced in
| comparison. Maybe, maybe not, but given this Lenovo price,
| I'm pretty sure System76 ain't going below $2000.
| schaefer wrote:
| the Lenovo yoga you reference above is explicitly not for
| sale in the USA.
|
| But for those of you in EU and Australia, this is a nice
| option. I've considered importing it.
| acomjean wrote:
| You can. Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but
| don't want to go through the hassle of installing it. While I
| could, I just didn't want to spend the time on it, plus setting
| up some drivers here and there. Thats the value prop. I got one
| for home use, (Oryx pro with Nvidia) 4 years ago. It worked
| well enough and had so few issues I got one for work.
| pxc wrote:
| > Its for people like me who want a linux laptop, but don't
| want to go through the hassle of installing it.
|
| For me, buying from an upstream-oriented Linux hardware
| vendor is about getting an assurance that on any distro newer
| than the hardware, everything will just work. I always plan
| to perform an installation because I have distro preferences.
|
| With System76, a stable, fast, open-source BIOS is also part
| of the value proposition.
|
| Personally, I'd never get an NVIDIA laptop again, 'supported'
| or not. At the end of the day, NVIDIA's kernel module will
| constrain what kernel versions you can use regardless of what
| any downstream vendor does. That means possible version
| conflicts with other out-of-tree kernel modules that I
| actually _want_ , like ZoL.
| jesuscript wrote:
| I totally sympathize with the driver compatibility concern,
| but what is the hassle of sticking in a linux usb drive to
| install?
|
| In general, how serious are these driver compatibility
| concerns for modern laptop hardware?
| maxk42 wrote:
| When I installed Linux on my first PC that was an operation
| that involved literal days of downloads and a screwdriver.
| Now it takes 30 minutes and I do it 3-4 times a year at
| least.
| trelane wrote:
| The hassle is the relentless debugging and glitchiness
| _after_ slapping Linux on a Windows computer. System
| integration is a _thing,_ and it 's hopeless for a random
| user with zero access to firmware and chip/board
| documentation.
|
| Also, the support and open firmware.
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| System 76 has a ways to go in this regard.
|
| My system 76 firm ware feels like abandon ware
| trelane wrote:
| Really? That is not my experience with them _at all_.
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| I bought a high end serval a couple years ago. I think
| they stopped producing that line. We never got any
| firmware updates to address battery life, wifi, sound,
| bluetooth, trackpad issues. I think they perhaps realized
| the fu'd, and that product line might have represented a
| sunk cost for them. I can't blame them if thats the case
| from a buisness pov, but as a consumer, I'll shop
| elsewhere for my next 'it just works' linux laptop. Many
| more options now than a handful of years ago.
| trelane wrote:
| Interesting. Good luck then! I'd be interested to hear
| back about some good ones. I agree, options are good and
| it's _so_ much better than 20 years ago.
| kube-system wrote:
| The driver issues still exist if you don't do research
| ahead of time. There are laptops on the shelf today that
| still don't fully work out of the box with Ubuntu.
| acomjean wrote:
| I don't know. I think most machines are pretty well
| supported. 4 years ago when I first bought one reading
| through the forums it seemed kinda hit or miss with wifi
| and sound. especially since my initial machine had nvidia
| graphics it seemed like a throw money at the problem and
| avoid headaches. If it was a desktop, I probably would have
| installed myself.
|
| The machines I have from system76 are rebadged "Clevos" (I
| got dog hair in the fan and replaced the fan, which
| necessitated investigating. My AMD one with original fans
| is NL50NU) https://www.clevo.com.tw/
|
| The POPOS full disc encryption out of the box was another
| selling point. I'm not sure thats easy to set up on on a
| new install.
|
| The support is good, when I had issues going up a major
| version (I think steam installed something newer than what
| it was expecting) and I couldn't figure how to get the OS
| to upgrade despite tons of command line foo, I put a ticket
| and they pointed me in the right direction.
| maxk42 wrote:
| I don't know about popos but when installing Fedora disk
| encryption is a one-click option.
| smoldesu wrote:
| You'd be surprised by how many software engineers balk at
| the idea of installing an OS from scratch.
|
| > In general, how serious are these driver compatibility
| concerns for modern laptop hardware?
|
| If you're not using anything Nvidia related, the process
| should be smooth as butter. Any Intel or AMD chipset from
| the past 5-7 years should be well supported by now.
| kibwen wrote:
| Got a System76 laptop last year because I was sick of Windows
| and Mac nonsense (if my OS is going to suck, I want it to suck
| on _my_ terms). The last time I tried desktop Linux was over
| ten years prior and I was prepared for a hell of obscure
| configuration and instability, but pleasantly it all Just
| Works. If you want a full-fledged Linux-based laptop that works
| out-of-the-box, I can recommend it.
| imachine1980_ wrote:
| you are paying for convenience, support the project, and have
| system that is tested for the ground up and configured by the
| manufacturer, and branding. I don't feel that is so great, some
| other laptops and pc in the linux ecosystem are great also, but
| this is their monetization scheme, high price for niche
| products. I don't think they can sell for lower price and
| compete whit companies who doesn't expend the money in
| developing the distribution, wm, etc.
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| 'support the project'
|
| And what project would that be?
| imachine1980_ wrote:
| PoP os (flavor of ubuntu), cosmic desktop, and a company
| focus in desktop and laptop Linux.
| woile wrote:
| Is this a thin and lightweight laptop? I've been looking for a
| thin powerful AMD laptop with good Linux support
| Beltalowda wrote:
| Dimensions 14.59'' x 9.76'' x 0.71'' (37.06 x 24.79 x 1.80 cm)
| Weight 3.95 lbs (1.79kg)
| umvi wrote:
| I have a System76 galp5. It's fairly thin and lightweight. I
| have mixed feelings about it. Linux support is good. But
| Windows support is pretty bad. All available drivers are here:
| https://github.com/system76/windows-drivers but even after
| installing everything in that repo listed under galp5, I still
| have a ton of issues including laptop not going to sleep when
| lid is closed, touchpad occasionally not working until I toggle
| it on/off from settings, etc. Getting Windows working from Pop
| OS using Virtual Box was also a massive, fragile headache. I
| would get it working, but then sometimes when using Visual
| Studio from inside virtual box it would freeze and the VM would
| be permanently bricked unless I had previously saved a
| snapshot.
|
| All this to say that if you care about Linux and _only_ Linux,
| System76 could be a good choice. But if you need to use Windows
| at all, I would steer clear of S76 until their Windows support
| is a little better (also YMMV - I 've just had so many issues
| with Windows on a galp5, but that might not be the case with
| other models).
| trelane wrote:
| I'd recommend using Windows under a VM, for this and myriad
| other reasons.
|
| But it really underscores the point that Linux and Windows
| hardware _really are_ different.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| > But it really underscores the point that Linux and
| Windows hardware really are different.
|
| You mean it underscores the fact that Windows actually has
| terrible hardware support and the only reason it runs on
| anything is because OEMs put in work...
|
| Linux runs on most Windows hardware OOTB.
| trelane wrote:
| > Linux runs on most Windows hardware OOTB.
|
| "Runs" is in the eye of the beholder. It runs, but very
| often with small glitches here and there, especially
| where hardware and software meet (e.g. suspend and
| resume.) Even Frameworks manages to screw it up, in no
| small part because they don't support Linux, only
| Windows. And AFICT, its _very_ hard to fully support both
| simultaneously.
|
| This is why I only buy System76. I've considered Tux etc
| and may also. But so far System76 has been the best for
| me.
| ruined wrote:
| still only 1080p
| x3n0ph3n3 wrote:
| I waited so long to get a new laptop, and System76 was my top
| choice, except for their awful screens.
|
| Finally bit the bullet on got a Macbook Pro 14" instead...
| mulmen wrote:
| My 2014 RMBP is finally ready to go to the great messenger bag in
| the sky. Apple no longer provides updates and the battery is
| swelling. I'm not excited about the new MacBook offerings. The
| hardware is neat but the OS really turns me off. Apple is on a
| crusade to make MacOS unusable and the lack of stability in the
| environment is too much for me.
|
| I'm ready to make the leap into a Linux desktop environment just
| for the sake of stability but I want well supported hardware. Is
| System 76 a good option? The advice that makes sense to me is to
| "use what the devs use". Does an AMD-only System 76 check that
| box?
| hojjat12000 wrote:
| As far as support goes. System76 would be your best bet. You
| can also checkout HP Dev One (which comes with System76's
| Pop!_OS).
| neither_color wrote:
| Do you game? Asus Zephyrus G14 is also AMD-only(mobile 6700 or
| 6800 graphics), premium build quality, and is available with a
| QHD display.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Would it make sense to change the title?
|
| I read it to be about people who bought AMD-only laptops from
| System76, needing to return them to System76 for some reason.
| rendaw wrote:
| 'System76 AMD-Only Laptops Return' would do it.
| lwhi wrote:
| Same here .. I think we need a comma.
|
| E.g. "System76 AMD-Only Laptop, Returns"
| coder543 wrote:
| No, that would actually be less correct _and_ less clear.
|
| "System76 brings back AMD-only laptop" would be an extremely
| clear way to phrase the title. I'm not even sure the "only"
| is even that helpful; it could probably just be "AMD laptop".
| lwhi wrote:
| Perhaps, but it would continue to allow the poster their
| own choice of words .. which I think is important.
| coder543 wrote:
| No... it's _less clear_ too. The verb is _never_ isolated
| from the rest of the sentence by a comma, but a list of
| nouns will be isolated by commas, even if the conjunction
| is missing for brevity in a title. Separating "returns"
| like that makes it appear _even more_ to be a noun, which
| is the thing that the original comment was confused by.
| Correct interpretation of the title relies on the reader
| realizing that it is a verb in this context, and the
| comma does not help with that.
|
| Given the ongoing mess with the AMD 7900 XTX GPU vapor
| chambers, I initially interpreted the title to mean there
| was some problem with AMD laptops, so System76 was
| offering returns only for those laptops with AMD chips.
| That is not the case.
| Y_Y wrote:
| Person holds excessively strict ideas about English
| grammar, posts.
| proto_lambda wrote:
| In headlinese, your sentence would be short for "Person
| holds excessively strict ideas about English grammar and
| English posts". Not a great example to make your point.
| coder543 wrote:
| I think clear communication is important, and I initially
| tried to avoid digging into grammar until they doubled
| down on a weird use of a comma.
|
| There are two verbs in your example, so it's simply not a
| relevant example since the second verb is forming a
| separate sentence. It's just connected with a comma in
| order to inform the reader that it is reusing the context
| of the previous sentence. In this specific example, that
| really makes it a broken sentence fragment, but it is
| often acceptable if it is being done poetically, which it
| arguably is there.
|
| I phrased my previous comment carefully. The verb is
| never isolated from the rest of the sentence by a comma.
| "Posts" is the complete sentence; it just has an implicit
| subject and object.
|
| It's possible there are nuanced counterexamples somewhere
| that I'm somehow overlooking, but none of them are
| relevant to whether putting a comma between "laptop" and
| "returns" would make the title clearer.
|
| But, if you'd like to try again with only a single
| verb...
| hosh wrote:
| Could also be "The Return of the System76 AMD-Only Laptop"
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| Ditto. I assumed it would be an article about some catastrophic
| hardware fault with an AMD-only laptop, necessitating a recall.
| malkia wrote:
| Yeah... Imagine "Jedi Returns"
| nine_k wrote:
| Jedi invest wisely!
| lost_tourist wrote:
| I don't think so, it made perfect sense to me on first reading.
| linhns wrote:
| Same
| BillinghamJ wrote:
| "Reintroduced"
| teodorlu wrote:
| I think "reintroduced" makes sense.
|
| I thought there were factory problems, a page with
| information about product returns, and possibly a story
| around that.
| justajot wrote:
| Same
| sdwolfz wrote:
| OK, let's look and analyse what they have in detail:
| Operating System: Pop!_OS 22.04 LTS or Ubuntu 22.04 LTS
|
| Do they offer any custom software that are only available on
| these distributions and would be a struggle to find on other?
| Sone other Clevo resellers have for example custom software to
| control the fan intensity that's Ubuntu only (and Ubuntu 20.04
| only). It's not clear why they restrict it to only these
| distributions. Also, why did they even bother to develop their
| own distribution? Every Linux in existence is a combination of 1
| DE (Gnome, KDE, XFCE or other), 1 package manager (apt, pacmanm
| etc...) and some kernel params. Is it really worth spending their
| time on a custom Linux instead of on hardware/firmware? Speaking
| of firmware, does it have Coreboot or stock Clevo BIOS? Does it
| have a fingerprint reader and does it work, can you control the
| fan speed from anywhere? Nowhere to find answers to these
| questions... Processor: AMD Ryzen(tm) 7 6800U:
| 2.7 up to 4.7 GHz - 8 Cores - 16 Threads Graphics: AMD
| Radeon(tm) 680M
|
| This is great! my opinion is this is the best laptop processor
| reasonably available on the market right now. But if you're not
| desperate to switch your laptop and can wait until the middle or
| end of this year, buying the next generation Zen4 processor is
| astronomically better. Display 15.6'' 1920x1080
| FHD, Matte Finish, 144 Hz
|
| Not bad, not good either, 1440p would have been ideal. They do
| not specify the sRGB % coverage. Is it 90, 95, 99? The difference
| between 90 and 95 is definitely noticeable and you would do
| yourself a big disservice if you don't go for 95% at least.
| Memory: 32 GB LPDDR5 @ 6400 MHz
|
| Yes, amazing, the future is now! But is it 4x8 or 2x16? And is it
| ECC? What brand? Storage: 2 x M.2 SSD(PCIe
| NVMe). Up to 16TB total.
|
| No problems here, I assume PCIe 4.0, but would be great if they
| specified. Don't want to accidentally discover it was PCIe 3.0
| after the purchase has been made. Also, what brand of SSD do they
| provide? Brands are important so you can look at benchmarks.
| Expansion: 3 x USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-A, 1 x USB 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C, SD
| Card Reader
|
| 3 USBA, 1 USBC? Why not 2 and 2? In the future we will need less
| USBA and more USBC. Look at macbooks, they have all USBC and
| everybody eventually copies macbooks anyway (regardless if it's a
| good or bad decision). The more USBC you have now the better for
| the future. Input: Multitouch Clickpad, Single-
| Color Backlit US QWERTY Keyboard
|
| Is 100% of the surface area clickable on the clickpad, or is it
| one of those awkward ones where you have "mouse buttons" at the
| top/bottom, and you can not press onto the top, only tap? Need
| more information!
|
| Keyboard wise it's great! a 15 inch laptop without a numpad is a
| waste of potential, as a numpad is immensely helpful when doing
| any sort of finance work. I definitely would not buy a laptop
| this big without one. Still some more information non the
| keyboard layouts available would be nice.
| Networking: Gigabit Ethernet, WiFi 6E, Bluetooth 5.2
|
| All perfect here! Video Ports: HDMI 2.0, USB
| 3.2 Gen 2 Type-C w/ DisplayPort
|
| I'm assuming this is the same single USBC that they mentioned
| above. Is it DisplayPort 1.4, or 2.0? Audio:
| Stereo dual-driver full-range speakers, 1x Headphone/Microphone
| Combo
|
| This is their biggest flaw. If you look at the chassis, you will
| see, the speakers point DOWNWARD. Speakers are supposed to point
| towards the listener, not away from them. Also, from previously
| owning multiple Clevo laptops that I've bought for work purposes,
| sound quality is so bad, you can simply assume you have no
| speakers as you'll be using headphones or a conference speaker.
| If you buy this thinking you'll be able to enjoy any kind of
| video/movie out of working hours without purchasing and carrying
| extra peripherals you will be extremely frustrated and
| disappointed. Low maximum volume, poor quality sound, no base,
| and pointing away from you; every flaw imaginable. More that 4
| people in a conference room and wanting to dial in from one
| laptop to share? Forget about it, you will be embarrassed to even
| try as the combination of laptop's built-in speakers and
| microphone quality will make the whole experience terrible. This
| is an area where macbooks excel, great speakers and great
| microphone, and that's why people love them so much, you can
| actually enjoy the audio interaction. There is no reason for non
| macbook laptops to be this bad at audio. All they have to do is
| copy macbooks, like they eventually do anyway... just put in
| better speakers and microphone, it's that easy. Cost wise it's
| not an issue either since a machine like this is going to cost in
| the same ballpark as a macbook anyway, why be cheap on something
| so insignificant for the overall price but so important for the
| user experience? Camera: 1.0MP 720p HD Webcam
| Security: Kensington(r) Lock, Hardware Camera Kill Switch
|
| A camera cover is better than a camera kill switch in my opinion,
| good to have at least I guess. Battery: Li-Ion
| - 70 Wh Charger: 65 W, AC-in 100-240 V, 50-60 Hz
|
| Why not 99Wh? (the maximum allowed at airports) This is not a
| macbook, it's a beefy, thick laptop no matter how you look at it,
| why not outfit it properly?
|
| Overall: at least it's guaranteed to run Linux... but from the
| points I raised above I guess you can see there is no point for
| me to get excited about this model in particular. Price wise it's
| going to be over the "expensive" threshold anyway, so might as
| well find something that ticks most checkboxes. Unless, of course
| I'm desperate for a new machine, in which case I could settle for
| this for a while.
|
| I'm more hopeful for this vendor instead for higher quality
| devices: https://starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter
| kccqzy wrote:
| To respond to your first part about operating system: I bought
| a computer with Pop!_OS but I promptly reformatted the disk and
| installed openSUSE on it. No issues at all. I did notice that
| in their preinstalled OS they did some customizations (enabling
| GNOME fractional scaling for example) but nothing that's not
| available in other distros. They have a nice Pop!_OS shell
| that's friendly to those new to tiling window managers, but
| that's also something you can install on other distros. I have
| previously mentioned on HN how I like that shell:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33295421
| [deleted]
| IronWolve wrote:
| Needs a 2k screen, wont go back to 1080p...
| toast0 wrote:
| If 4k is _3840_ x 2160, _1920_ x 1080 is 2k, FYI
| coder543 wrote:
| This is 100% correct.
|
| Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_resolution
|
| > Another resolution that is often referred to as 2K is 2560
| x 1440 (1440p) however that is a common mistake in
| marketing[12] and is called QHD by the DCI.
|
| It is a _mistake_ to refer to 2560x1440 as 2K.
|
| People calling 1080p "2K" is a pet peeve of mine. 2.5K is a
| more appropriate name for 2560x1440, if you want to use that
| naming convention, but I think just saying 1440p is simpler.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| Nope, 1440p is known as 2k because it is twice the amount of
| pixels as 1080p.
| dsr_ wrote:
| https://www.tomshardware.com/news/2k-definition,37641.html
|
| Says that the DCI definition of 2K is 2048x1080, and that
| 2560x1440 should be called QHD or WQHD. (Quad = 4x, HD =
| 1280x720).
|
| And this aligns with the usage I am accustomed to.
| [deleted]
| dfghjkjhg wrote:
| too little too late.
|
| since 13months ago, HP sells a elite book G9 for 2k, which have
| the best combo configuration at, gasp, wallmart for 800... eigth
| hundred dollars.
|
| same cpu, but PRO version. metal and plastic body. scissor
| waterproof keyboard. usb c charging (system76 is barrel), 2x
| sodimm ram slots (system76 is soldered, note thay amd zen3+ pro
| mighty allow ECC ram in a laptop for the first time! so i want
| slots), the battery have 18Wh less, but it is also 20pct ligther.
| and all hardware is fully supported with 5.8+ kernel.
|
| I always try to buy from linux-first-vendors, but I still deal
| with a librem13 that have sevral keys fail on their keyboard and
| support is ghosting me. even had to super-glue the hinge latelly.
| so awful :(
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| 800 seems cheap for an elitebook. Is that the 8x0 model?
|
| I have the older g8. It worked perfectly out of the box _on
| linux_ since new. Recently, windows started being able to use
| the webcam, too.
|
| But beware the screen. It's absurdly bad. I'd say it's okish
| for $800. For 2000, it's a bad joke. Some models only have
| 6-bit screens (at least those have an excuse for being
| horrible).
|
| The fan is sometimes noisy, too. It seems like it's somewhat
| off-balance, ever since it was new.
| vetrom wrote:
| Are new S76 laptops still Clevo or some other ODM?
| acomjean wrote:
| I have one (the previous one with AMD Ryzen 5700u). I've been
| using it for work the last 6 months coming from an 2015 macbook.
| Its been great for developing. The battery lasts pretty well
| (forgetting my power supply when working from home I got almost 7
| hours), its fast (I've done some genetics blast runs which take
| hours, where those extra cores really help). Its pretty quiet too
| (you can hear the fan when it spins up, but its very reasonable).
| Returning to a Mat screen has been nice.
|
| I really like AMD on the notebook. Compared to my 4 year old Oryx
| pro (intel 8th gen), which had poor battery life (esp when using
| the Nvidia graphics) and required a reboot initially if I wanted
| to switch to intel graphics. This one is much nicer, but it won't
| game nearly as well as one with dedicated graphics.
| 12311231231 wrote:
| [dead]
| renewiltord wrote:
| Been a Linux user for 20+ years. Pretty sick that we have
| companies like this selling Linux laptops with Coreboot. Man,
| that was a wild dream back in the day.
|
| I'm using a Macbook personally, but this stuff is so sick. To be
| honest, I never really imagined the future as using Windows +
| Linux + MacOS without thinking that much about the platform, but
| about the only thing that sticks out to me is that the command
| line on Windows is rubbish. Otherwise, it feels very naturally
| normal to me as I switch between platforms. The web has really
| changed things.
|
| Only thing that surprises me are the screens. I thought the high
| res screens like in the Macbook were commonplace now.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| You need a better adjective and to try Windows Terminal with a
| modern shell shipped this millennium. ;-)
|
| I like yori when in a DOS mood.
| inetknght wrote:
| > _You need ... to try Windows_
|
| Hard no from many people including myself. It will be a cold
| day in hell before I give Microsoft any more of my money or
| personal information after the abuses they've done to me, my
| information, and my purchases.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Preachin' to the choir buddy. Suggestion was for the
| grandparent post who wanted a better shell for windows.
| jklinger410 wrote:
| They should have gone with AMD from the start and the screen is a
| non-starter. When researching laptops, screen is probably the
| biggest differentiator at this point.
|
| I won't be replacing my Galago Pro with another System76 product
| when that day finally comes.
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| I'm on the Serval 76 with a 2070.
|
| I don't really care if they are going team red again. I'll be
| trying a different manufacturer next time.
| lost_tourist wrote:
| this is in addition to intel, so what's your point? You don't
| like system76 hardware at all and will be switching?
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| From a hardware side things are spec'd fine. The issue is on
| the firmware/ company side. I no longer have confidence in
| the company to support their products. A couple of qol
| firmware updates could have fixed that.
| piinbinary wrote:
| This feels like somewhat unfortunate timing, with AMD's 7000
| series mobile CPUs just around the corner.
| schaefer wrote:
| You really have to do your homework with the new AMD processor
| rebranding. It's super easy to think your getting the latest
| and greatest, only to end up with Vega 2 graphics like the 5000
| series from years ago. I had to whiteboard it to keep it all
| straight myself.
|
| When I look at AMD's new mobile lineup for 2023, and I didn't
| notice anything "new" in the U-series power profile (15 watts
| tdp). I'd be more than happy with a 6800U in linux friendly
| packaging.
|
| Let me know if you think there's a specific 7000 series chip
| I've overlooked.
|
| P.S: about the system 76 teaser itself, the static picture used
| as a "before and after" comparison for 60hz display vs 144 hz
| display is comedic gold.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| > Let me know if you think there's a specific 7000 series
| chip I've overlooked.
|
| The 7040 series, which is Zen 4 & RDNA 3 (so not a Rembrandt
| refresh) should be available for "thin and light" laptops.
| schaefer wrote:
| You are absolutely right about that[1]. but strangely, on
| the 7640U the CPU core count drops from 8 to 6 in
| comparison with the 6800U. Presumably to make room for the
| new AI cores? I'm not sure that trade off is right for me.
|
| [1]: https://wccftech.com/amd-debuts-ryzen-7045-dragon-
| range-enth...
| wmf wrote:
| It's not strange. x6xx = 6 cores, x8xx = 8 cores; it's a
| lower tier.
| coder543 wrote:
| The 7840HS is also designed for thin-and-light laptops,
| according to AMD, and it has 8 cores. It is a "35W" chip,
| but AMD says it is for ultrathins ("The Ultimate
| Ultrathin Processor"), and TDP is a _relatively_
| meaningless number these days.
|
| That wccftech article is the only one I can find that
| lists a 7640U (not HS) processor. I think they combined
| some previous rumors with the actual announced specs by
| accident. I can't find any indication that the 7640U
| actually exists.
| wmf wrote:
| Huh, you're right; there's no 7x4xU. But a 15.6" laptop
| should have an HS processor anyway. System76 is cheaping out
| by using a 6800U.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Honestly, I disagree. The 6800u has a base TDP of 15 watts
| - the 6800HS has a base TDP of 35w. The tradeoff in
| thermals/battery life is not worth the marginal performance
| increase, at least in my opinion.
| lhl wrote:
| Besides a slight bin the Ryzen U and H chips are largely
| the same, and you can easily limit power usage w/ a tool
| like https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj to get similar
| power consumption. The advantage of having an H/HS laptop
| though is that their cooling solutions tend to be much
| better...
| wmf wrote:
| I'd prefer a more powerful laptop and let the customer
| underclock if they want to.
| nicolaslem wrote:
| "U" class chips won't be in laptops on the shelves until this
| summer, if previous mobile CPU releases are good indicators.
|
| Oh and then be ready for months of firmware and kernel patches
| until the chip is actually usable as a daily driver on Linux.
|
| Getting a 6000 series CPU now that the kinks have been ironed
| out is not a bad idea.
| karmakaze wrote:
| The first thing I see is a 16x9 screen, think "pass", and close
| the page. There have to be other LCD panel makers out there.
| Either their customers don't care and/or the company doesn't care
| to make a better laptop.
| JasonFruit wrote:
| I'm a customer, and I like the 16x9 screen. Works great for my
| old school workflows and aging eyes. Of course, I don't know
| what I'm missing.
| StillBored wrote:
| Yah I don't get why these laptop manufactures keep shipping
| garbage screens. I got a 3:2 2160 x 1440, IPS screen on a $200
| tablet a few months ago. My laptop has a 16:9 that looks worse,
| and has lower resolution despite the machine costing 6x as
| much.
|
| So, please, its hard to call your product "premium" if its
| screen is worse than a bottom of the barrel tablet.
| okasaki wrote:
| That sounds nice. What tablet is that? It's pretty sad that
| tablets seem to be elongating like phones did. Most of them
| are 16:10 these days.
| greyw wrote:
| Interesting. For me the screen needs to be 16:9 or 16:10 to be
| even considered.
| lost_tourist wrote:
| that's the same for me. I tend to have "two" windows open at
| most times and that works well for me on my 15" laptop
| (ancient by most HN standards). I've looked at the ultrawide
| and 4:3 screens and I'm good with the current "standard" form
| factor when I can't get to my 3 monitor setup at home.
| inetknght wrote:
| > _The first thing I see is a 16x9 screen, think "pass", and
| close the page._
|
| I like 16x9. What do you want instead?
| haunter wrote:
| Not OP but I guess 4:3 or 3:2. Some people prefer those to
| widescreens, having more vertical space is better
|
| MS Surface Books are 3:2 for example (2256 x 1504 on 13,5" /
| 2496 x 1664 on 15"), or some Thinkpad X1 models are 4:3
| (probably just the Fold?). The Framework laptop is also 3:2
| (2256 x 1504 on 13,5")
| RodGodKiller wrote:
| He probably meant 16:10.
| karmakaze wrote:
| Yes, I meant 16:10, though 3:2 is also good. 4:3 is
| really only for tablets or < 12" screens.
| crclist wrote:
| Looks like it's been longer than I realized since I last
| paid attention to displays. That's wonderful that
| alternatives to 16:9 are rising again.
| deergomoo wrote:
| I'm not OP but 16:10 or 3:2 are great aspect ratios for
| laptops.
| Raphael wrote:
| 16:9 demands true full-screen for viewing 16:9 content. 16:10
| leaves a little room for toolbars if you just want to
| maximize a window and look at something.
| sylens wrote:
| 1080p too. Really hard for me to go back at this point.
| smoldesu wrote:
| There's hope that a 4k screen option might exist, but
| anything between 1080p and 4k will not look good on Linux at
| this size. Without fractional scaling or funny supersampling
| tricks, Linux only really looks good at 100% and 200%
| scaling.
|
| Maybe in time that will change, but that's just how Linux is
| for now.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| I use xrandr --scale 0.8x0.8 and it seems alright to me.
| cevn wrote:
| Fractional scaling is a 99% solved problem at least on KDE,
| even with Wayland it seems to work fine for me. Just a few
| apps are blurry which I don't use.
| [deleted]
| AzzieElbab wrote:
| PopOs - System76 distro supports fractional scaling.
| deaddodo wrote:
| My screen is 2560x1600 and I use Fractional Scaling (125%)
| on Fedora/Gnome with Wayland just fine.
| snvzz wrote:
| Ryzen 6800U: https://www.amd.com/en/product/11591
|
| It's a Zen3+ with embedded RDNA2 graphics.
|
| Not the state of the art as of CES announcements, but I'd happily
| get a laptop with one of these if I needed a laptop right now.
|
| It's good System76 is offering such an option, because it makes
| them a candidate.
|
| I would not currently consider a laptop that's based on Intel or
| NVIDIA hardware, due to vastly inferior performance/watt and lack
| of open documentation, respectively.
| whalesalad wrote:
| The chassis looks great and is made of magnesium - if it weren't
| for the tenkey I would be seriously considering this. A smaller
| thinkpad-esque machine would probably be really popular.
| buster3000 wrote:
| '15.6'' 1920x1080'
|
| Come on...
| bboygravity wrote:
| Meanwhile people like me think you're complaining about the
| tiny screen.
| lhl wrote:
| This might be the first Ryzen 6800U Linux laptop, which is cool,
| but it's a bit hard for me to get too excited about it...
|
| * One of the biggest selling points of Ryzen 6000 is the chip's
| USB4 support, but looks like the Pangolin won't have it. It also
| only has 1 USB-C port, which is a bit of a headscratcher in 2023.
| Does it support PD even? (Not mentioned)
|
| * 16:9 FHD display (no brightness specified) - high refresh is
| nice, but again, weird that it's not 16:10 in 2023 and IMO, QHD
| would be better for a 15-16" display.
|
| * soldered memory (32GB at least)
|
| * Numpad keyboard. This will be a positive for some, but I'm in
| the centered keyboard camp
|
| * Only a 70Wh battery and still not so light (1.8kg)
|
| While it's running an older chip, if you're not going to have
| USB4/TB4, and the points I listed are important, I think the
| Tuxedo Pulse 15 Gen2 is still a better 15" option atm (5700U
| chip, but lighter, bigger battery, better (still 16:9) display,
| Ethernet, SODIMM slots). There are some Ubuntu certified
| ThinkPads that are an option too (they have Ryzen 6000U chips but
| also no USB4), although almost all the models are w/ soldered RAM
| on ThinkPads now, which is a bummer.
|
| If you want USB4 on AMD, the best (Linux friendly) options right
| now are probably the Asus G14 GA402 or a ThinkPad Z16. The HP
| EliteBook G9s are an option as well, although you need Linux 6.0+
| to fix a broken HP BIOS update (HP support is also aggressively
| indifferent to Linux users) and I've seen lots of complaints
| about the fan curve and the SureView displays so I'm hesitant to
| recommend it...
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Agreed on preferring a bright 16:10 display. It might seem
| minor but that was on of the factors that pushed me over the
| edge to buy a ThinkPad X1 Nano instead of a Lemur Pro a couple
| of years ago.
|
| I'm also not into numpads on laptops. Not that they aren't
| useful sometimes, but the they push the alpha cluster and
| trackpad off-center which is uncomfortable to type on which is
| hard to justify with how little I personally need one -- a
| standalone numpad that I pull out of a drawer during tax season
| or whenever makes a lot more sense. Ultimately I think 15"+
| laptops should offer keyboard options with and without numpads.
| doublepg23 wrote:
| I'm holding out hope on System76 designing truly custom
| hardware and we reach the fabled "MacBook of Linux" someday. As
| of now their Clevo rebadges don't appeal to me, though their
| "custom" desktops do.
| deaddodo wrote:
| I mean, it wouldn't even be hard for them to partner with
| someone like ASUS, Acer, etc to produce semi-custom hardware.
|
| The strict Clevo-based hardware will always turn me away from
| buying from them when I can get multiple AMD 6000-based
| laptops from Asus that run Linux fine (after a wifi-card
| swap, the MediaTek's they use are useless); and have superior
| build qualities.
| Entinel wrote:
| I think Framework is the closest thing to that.
| ysleepy wrote:
| There is already the ThinkPad P14s G3 AMD with the 6850U PRO.
|
| I have the G2 with the 5850U and it performs very well.
| kfajdsl wrote:
| Yep, basically same here with a T14s G3 also with the 6850U
| PRO.
| p1necone wrote:
| On the screen - after using 3:2 and 16:9 laptops, I'll never go
| back to 16:9 again, so it's a definite deal breaker for me.
| INTPenis wrote:
| It might seem like nitpicking but I'm actually on your side
| here, as a consumer.
|
| It's been a struggle to find a 1440 AMD laptop, I have one that
| I'm happy with for travel. (Lenovo Yoga Slim 7 Carbon Gen 6)
|
| I also don't want it to be too big, for travel, so numpad is
| out for me.
|
| The Slim 7 feels like a toy, but it's actually just very, very
| light, and made of plastic. It creeks, yes, but it's very, very
| light. This is more important to me when it's on my back, than
| being out of metal.
| [deleted]
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Not gonna lie, very underwhelming compared to what's coming out
| from other manufacturers...
|
| Even a budget brand like Acer is releasing Ryzen 7000 chipsets
| and pairing it with higher resolution OLED screens, probably will
| be cheaper as well...
|
| https://www.acer.com/ca-en/laptops/swift/swift-go-14-amd
| teaearlgraycold wrote:
| System76 is a brand for ideologues. They ship laptops with FOSS
| UEFI. That's their gimmick.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| I mean, I like Linux and am a bit of an ideologue... I want
| System76 to succeed and want to buy a laptop from them but I
| also like using nice hardware.
| linhns wrote:
| I think you get what you pay for. Nicer hardware = more
| expensive. Maybe if this is successful the System76 will
| consider fast-tracking Ryzen 7000.
| [deleted]
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Except System76 charges premium prices for subpar
| hardware...
|
| Like they don't have _anything_ built as nicely as a Dell
| XPS or a ThinkPad Z or X1 Carbon. Even Acers look more
| premium...
| benatkin wrote:
| What the heck is their problem?!?! Surely a company 10
| times the size of Dell could produce just as nice of a
| laptop design...
|
| I think a Linux-only laptop is pretty cool, even if it
| has some tradeoffs.
| stcroixx wrote:
| I bought one less than a year ago. I took the budget for
| a macbook and spent it maxing out a system 76 laptop.
| Double the memory, over double the storage, ample USB
| ports, not really sure what's subpar about what I'm
| using. Best laptop I've ever had by far. Regarding looks,
| I don't know or care.
| ploxiln wrote:
| The Ryzen 7000 mobile lineup includes chips based on Zen4, Zen
| 3+, Zen 3, and even Zen 2 cpu cores, and using RDNA3, RDNA2,
| and even Vega graphics! An Acer with a Ryzen 7000 series chip
| could easily have the same or older cpu core or graphics arch,
| as the Zen 3+ and RDNA2 in Ryzen 6800U.
|
| https://www.anandtech.com/show/18718/amd-2023-ryzen-mobile-7...
|
| (and honestly, Zen 3 and RDNA 2 are damn good anyway)
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| The teaser says 8 cores/16 threads so likely will be at least
| equivalent. With a much better screen. And cheaper.
| ciupicri wrote:
| Does that really exist? All I see is:
|
| > Pick your perfect Swift Go 14 AMD
|
| > Search for your Swift Go 14 AMD by features or browse the
| products below.
|
| > Results: 0
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| I mean, the System76 discussed also isn't available at this
| exact moment either...
| lushdogg wrote:
| I own a LemurPro 9. Love it but the arrow keys are a crime
| against humanity. It appears they have fixed this (maybe even
| sooner) with the Pangolin.
|
| System76 if you here can you switch chassis :) ?
| azangru wrote:
| Ooh, it's actually starting to look rather nice, unless these are
| deceptively flattering angles. Which Clevo is this?
| sliken wrote:
| Maybe it's the long rumored locally produced System76 laptop.
| trelane wrote:
| If you believe getting a laptop crom System76 and from Clevo
| will get you the same laptop, you're quite mistaken.
| LoganDark wrote:
| No? Sysmtem76 rebrands Clevo machines and offers them with
| software support & warranty. That's like, their whole thing.
| trelane wrote:
| No, actually, they don't. They work with Clevo to make
| them, and Clevo can sell the hardware, but the firmware is
| very different, and possibly some of the hardware as well.
|
| see e.g. cassidyjames at
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17039414
|
| There were a couple of great threads on Twitter, but it
| looks like Jeremy Soller isn't on anymore.
| (https://twitter.com/c4software/status/1322954098711400449
| is one guy realizing too late that they're not the same,
| that likely precipitated https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremy_
| soller/status/132295496454... still in Google cache saying
| "A reminder that you shouldn't buy Clevo's and expect them
| to work like System76's"
| tssva wrote:
| Last time there was a System76 laptop announcement on HN I said I
| was going to be in the market for a new laptop in the coming year
| but wouldn't consider a System76 laptop because of the giant logo
| on the lid. Some people said the logos on their System76 laptops
| were stickers which could be removed. I contacted System76 and
| was told that was no longer the case.
|
| If anyone from System76 is here, I am currently looking for a new
| laptop and will not be buying a System76 laptop based entirely
| upon the giant logo on them. I don't want to put a skin, a cover
| or stickers over my laptop. My preference would be no logo at all
| but that seems to be impossible. If you are compelled to use me
| for free advertising post purchase, at least make it somewhat
| discreet.
| [deleted]
| msla wrote:
| On my Darter Pro 8 (recentish, not top-of-the-line) laptop, the
| branding on the lid isn't one sticker, it's a sticker per
| character, which I could likely remove and leave smooth black
| metal.
|
| This Reddit thread seems to agree with me that the stickers can
| be removed, albeit about a different model:
|
| https://old.reddit.com/r/System76/comments/ge0mqz/lemur_pro_...
|
| Looks like it has the same kind of lettering as mine, though.
| tssva wrote:
| When I contacted System76 sales last year after others posted
| their logo was stickers they told me their logo was no longer
| stickers. Maybe that is only on the upper range but the upper
| range is what I am interested in.
| benlivengood wrote:
| I bought a Lemur because of coreboot but I can't tell if this
| laptop will have coreboot or a closed BIOS/EFI. Admittedly I
| haven't played around with customizing the coreboot firmware but
| that was my intention, mostly to avoid long boot times and
| potentially to try fitting the whole kernel in firmware.
| quasarj wrote:
| God damn that is one ugly motherfucker. Why in the world is
| anyone still squeezing useless numpads onto laptops???
| inetknght wrote:
| > _Why in the world is anyone still squeezing useless numpads
| onto laptops???_
|
| Excuse me?! I will never buy a laptop without a numpad! I use
| numpads _every day_!
|
| The better question is why is anyone still squeezing a useless
| touchpad onto laptops???
| quasarj wrote:
| Well first, I don't believe you.
|
| But let's assume you really do need a numpad for your work or
| whatever. Wouldn't you rather have one that was... full
| sized? And wouldn't you rather the keyboard be centered on
| the laptop, so you can _actually use it on a lap_?
| lost_tourist wrote:
| We can have both. I think we have the tech still. Not sure
| why OP is angry lol
| 12311231231 wrote:
| [dead]
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| I hate the numpad on my system 76
| maxk42 wrote:
| I refuse to buy any laptop without a numpad.
| gautamcgoel wrote:
| Just curious, what do you use the numpad for?
| inetknght wrote:
| I'm not who you replied to, but:
|
| - typing numbers.
|
| - sometimes also: typing really long numbers
|
| - rarely, I'll use the numpad to hold my pinky finger. My
| control key, arrow key, and backspace key don't like this
| though.
|
| - I also use the +, -, and Enter keys too.
|
| - Asterisk is handy for multiplication. But slash is
| definitely not used ever.
|
| - Once in a while I might press the NumLock key. Usually
| it's pressed in pairs.
| [deleted]
| quasarj wrote:
| But how do you get over the embarrassment of how ugly
| your keyboard is? or how you have to type on the left
| side of it instead of the center?
| maxk42 wrote:
| It's a difficult task, but I shift my computer about 1.5
| inches to the right.
| maxk42 wrote:
| I have to do a lot of calculation on the fly. When I'm on a
| business call and someone gives me up-to-date metrics I
| frequently have to translate that into numbers that make
| sense for my business. (e.g. If I'm on the phone with a
| vendor and someone tells me their unit price is $1.44, I
| need to add that to my COGS, subtract the current unit
| price, and multiply by monthly or annual capacity to figure
| out how that's going to affect costs.) I can do this by
| touch while I'm talking in 2 - 3 seconds if I have a
| numpad. If I don't, I need both hands and roughly twice the
| time per calculation and I need to double-check I typed
| things right because the numbers aren't aligned quite the
| same way on each keyboard I use. It becomes a noticeable
| drag on productivity when I'm performing more complex ad
| hoc calculations for reports or presentations. I used a
| macbook for years and won't do it anymore. Linux on a
| computer with a numpad is the only way for me to go now.
| Finnucane wrote:
| I am surprised to see that their chosen configuration does not
| please everyone's contradictory expectations and desires.
| RosanaAnaDana wrote:
| All I want is a commitment from the company to provide a couple
| of qol firmware updates. System 76 has burned me in the past in
| this regard.
| droptablemain wrote:
| I've bought a couple of laptops from System76. They charge
| outrageous prices and and shipping costs for even the smallest
| part; other than that, getting parts for their rebadged Clevo
| machines can be a bit challenging because you often have to order
| from China, so it takes a while.
| indigodaddy wrote:
| Hah I misinterpreted this headline as "people returning" these
| laptops
| Symmetry wrote:
| Now that the two big Thinkpad pointer stick patents have expired
| I wonder why more laptop makers aren't incorporating them?
| acomjean wrote:
| Or put that point thing on a mouse. So much better than a
| scroll wheel. I still miss that mouse.
| uni_rule wrote:
| Despite the niche love for them on a personal level corporate
| fleet buyers would still buy DTSN screens if they were $5
| cheaper per unit than the regular ones because they are that
| damn fickle. That is to say their priorities are different.
| criddell wrote:
| Corporate fleet buyers purchased a lot of Thinkpads over the
| years.
| linhns wrote:
| Non-programmers are not really fond of it, unlike you and me. I
| actually consider it a ThinkPad underutilized selling point but
| it takes time to master navigation with the pointer stick and
| sometimes it gets in the way when you need to type fast.
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