[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How can I find a German family by their crest?
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       Ask HN: How can I find a German family by their crest?
        
       I just inherited a ring that has been passed down in my family
       since WWI. My great grandfather (who was a scoundrel) took a brooch
       off of a dead German officer in 1915 in Belgium. He had it
       converted into a ring.  In 1931, my great grandfather
       coincidentally met the brother of the dead officer. The brother saw
       the ring and said, "That looks remarkably like a brooch that has
       been in my family in Bavaria for a long time."  I'm not actually
       sure if it's a crest, now that I write this. And it's pretty small.
       If possible, I'd love to figure out how to get it back to that
       family, but I have no idea where to begin.
        
       Author : christophilus
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2023-01-12 14:26 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
       | scanny wrote:
       | First step is to post a link to an image of the supposed crest.
        
       | SHAKEDECADE wrote:
       | Try the Heraldry subreddit. Those people love this stuff.
       | 
       | https://old.reddit.com/r/heraldry/
        
       | d3vmax wrote:
       | Google lens
        
       | smcl wrote:
       | It sounds like an interesting thing to look up. One thing you
       | might want to remember though is that some in Europe, Irish and
       | Scots particularly, get a kick out of winding up guys from
       | America who look a bit gullible and inquire about some connection
       | they have to someone's country. You'd be surprised how many times
       | I've heard Oh you're from Scotland, do you know
       | Kenneth/Hamish/Calum/etc?" and it is genuinely tempting to say
       | "Yes" and make something silly up.
       | 
       | So just mentally prepare yourself that this could end up being
       | the punchline of a joke that was originally told 100 years back
       | :-)
        
         | jimnotgym wrote:
         | Don't leave out the English or Welsh.
         | 
         | Winding up Americans unites the UK.
        
           | christophilus wrote:
           | It's so easy to do, so how can you resist?
        
           | smcl wrote:
           | Oh no doubt but, and no offence to the English intended, I
           | think the number of Americans who will proudly say "I'm a
           | quarter English!" is miniscule compared to those claiming the
           | same for Irish or Scottish and I haven't heard anyone
           | claiming Welsh heritage personally (despite there being a
           | decent number of American Jones-es)
        
       | anotheryou wrote:
       | In theory in here are a lot:
       | https://archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Koerner%2C...
        
       | shimonabi wrote:
       | If the OP would just post a picture of the ring he would probably
       | have the answer by now.
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | Good point. I don't have it in my possession yet, but I'll post
         | it again when I do. I'll try Reddit as well.
        
           | googlryas wrote:
           | Is your reddit username the same as this one? I want to see
           | the ring and how long it takes reddit to solve it.
        
             | ROTMetro wrote:
             | Well this account is burnt now and linked to whatever
             | account next posts a bavarian looking ring on Reddit.
             | Someone with a super strange post history on Reddit is this
             | very moment making such a post just for the lols.
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | No, it's not. I'll have it in a few weeks, I think, so I'll
             | see if I can post an update then. Otherwise, I'll make a
             | new HN post just so interested folks can find it.
        
       | weinzierl wrote:
       | I'm based in Munich (with roots in north-eastern Bavaria), so if
       | you have something specific only a local can do to help, I can
       | see what I can do. Contact details are in my profile.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | Post on reddits /r/whatisthisthing
       | 
       | They can find almost anything.
        
         | TSiege wrote:
         | Reddit would be my bet as well
        
       | ekpyrotic wrote:
       | In spite of all the various potential high-tech solutions --
       | i.e., Google Lens -- I would strongly advise just contacting an
       | antiques brooch specialist. They will know where to look, or may
       | even know the crest from taking an immediate look.
       | 
       | I love the power of technology to make knowledge accessible, but
       | sometimes I feel that we forget that deep expertise exists in
       | people too. There will be someone -- if not a couple of people --
       | have have likely spent their full life /only/ learning about
       | Bavarian brooches.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | speedylight wrote:
       | Use r/whatisthisthing that subreddit is like the research
       | department of the internet.
        
       | ogig wrote:
       | I'd try a google lens, or google image search, as a first try.
       | Reddit and history stackexchange could prove useful too.
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | You will have to ask some heralds. You probably have a "badge",
       | which is a diminuitive/selected feature set of a "crest". The
       | design elements of a crest or badge are described as as "a
       | blazon".
       | 
       | https://pro-heraldica.de/en/heraldry/
       | 
       | https://pro-heraldica.de/en/heraldry/terms-of-heraldry/
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_heraldry
       | 
       | https://heraldica.hypotheses.org/1767
       | 
       | heraldric blazons are their own little DSL, so you'll need to
       | know how to encode the crest into that language. And of course,
       | it's not just one language; it's many that vary by nation-state-
       | ish-thing, time, etc. You'll want to find a herald who knows
       | about the continental blazoning styles.
       | 
       | a database of german arms from ~1600+:
       | https://data.cerl.org/siebmacher/_search/
        
         | dghf wrote:
         | > You probably have a "badge", which is a diminuitive/selected
         | feature set of a "crest".
         | 
         | Maybe things are different in German heraldry, but in English
         | heraldry, a badge need bear no relation to the owner's coat of
         | arms or crest -- for example, the Tudor Rose of Henry VII
         | (arms: the fleurs-de-lys of France quartered with the lions of
         | England; crest: a crowned lion in a standing pose), or the
         | Stafford knot of the dukes of Buckingham (arms: a red chevron
         | on a gold background).
         | 
         | In England at least, the key difference between a coat of arms
         | (with or without a crest) and a badge is that the former could
         | only be properly worn/carried/displayed by its owner (and his
         | heralds), while the latter could be worn by his followers as a
         | sign of allegiance.
        
           | hprotagonist wrote:
           | what you say is true for england and sometimes france, for
           | certain, and likely about germany too. germans are different,
           | though: iirc they allow two metals to touch, too, and other
           | stuff.
           | 
           | it's also possible that OP has a badge of a city or council
           | or guild or whatever too.
        
         | jansan wrote:
         | Add this to the list:
         | 
         | https://eherold.org/wappenliste/
        
         | vadansky wrote:
         | Canada has one too!
         | 
         | https://www.gg.ca/en/heraldry/public-register
        
       | Bouncingsoul1 wrote:
       | https://www.heimat-bayern.de/fachbereiche/heimatpflege-und-h...
       | In Bavaria we have "Heimatpfleger" on communal level which are
       | knowlegable about stuff like this. Maybe ask the statelevel
       | parent organisatiim (link above) and they may forward you to the
       | correct Heimatpfleger
        
         | themulticaster wrote:
         | When I opened HN today I really did not expect to find a
         | comment mentioning the Bayerischer Landesverein fur
         | Heimatpflege e.V.
        
           | isbjorn16 wrote:
           | well, you should have, and that's on you.
        
       | eddsh1994 wrote:
       | At least in the Nordic countries there's a book released every 5
       | years with a list of all noble families including the very minor
       | ones, and all currently living members of said families, with
       | their crests. There's probably a German equivalent if you look
       | for it and you could find it there.
        
       | mbnull wrote:
       | Maybe you can find a search mask for
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siebmachers_Wappenbuch somewhere.
       | 
       | Edit: source
       | https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Siebmachers_Wappenbuch
        
       | defulmere wrote:
       | The Society for Creative Anachronism has a heraldry group on
       | Facebook there that might be able to help you (if you're on FB):
       | https://www.facebook.com/groups/SCAHeraldryChat
        
       | sakex wrote:
       | Have you tried Google Lens?
        
       | blueflow wrote:
       | I'd probably just post it here or on Reddit, there are people
       | who'd take up the challenge for free.
        
       | mometsi wrote:
       | I happen to be extraordinarily familiar with a similar situation
       | (long story). I think you should be careful who you discuss this
       | with, particularly if the previous owners might get involved.
       | 
       | My advice would be to go to Bavaria yourself, and destroy the
       | ring.
        
         | SirLJ wrote:
         | You'll have to recruit fellow friends, because you will need
         | help along the way!
        
           | datenhorst wrote:
           | He could just ride the federal eagle to Bavaria
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Filligree wrote:
         | Why? And why on earth in Bavaria?
        
           | darknavi wrote:
           | If we do not heed the lessons of the past, we are doomed to
           | repeat them.
           | 
           | https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/One_Ring
        
           | athorax wrote:
           | Because the hearts of men are easily corrupted
        
           | jonfw wrote:
           | The only place that the ring can be destroyed is the place
           | where it was forged
        
             | hef19898 wrote:
             | Then it would be Belgium...
        
               | dharmab wrote:
               | Have you ever heard of an event called the First World
               | War?
        
         | rozularen wrote:
         | brilliant
        
         | _a_a_a_ wrote:
         | So discretely stated it went right over my head. Riiiight over.
         | Brilliant.
        
       | leobm wrote:
       | it is also best to ask at https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-12 23:02 UTC)