[HN Gopher] Show HN: Loti - Remove revenge porn using a facial r...
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       Show HN: Loti - Remove revenge porn using a facial recognition on
       adult sites
        
       Author : lja
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2023-01-11 16:53 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (goloti.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (goloti.com)
        
       | hirak wrote:
       | Hi, I am Hirak. I am a co-founder of Loti.
       | 
       | Loti uses state of the art facial recognition algorithm built
       | with proprietary models. It takes into consideration a dozen
       | facial characteristics in more than 1 angles to find matches from
       | a collection of more than 50 million data sets. We keep adding
       | millions of new data every month to make sure we don't miss out
       | any privacy breach of your photo.
        
         | braingenious wrote:
         | How did you arrive at the number of over 2.6 _Billion_ victims
         | of revenge porn? 33% of people seems like an incredible number.
        
           | lja wrote:
           | Here's the quick read:
           | https://www.fastcompany.com/90467411/shocking-study-
           | finds-1-...
           | 
           | Here's the real study: https://www.naag.org/attorney-general-
           | journal/an-update-on-t...
           | 
           | Also, I don't think these numbers could be extrapolated to
           | every country/region/culture on earth but they do seem to
           | hold for european and english speaking markets.
        
             | braingenious wrote:
             | So you work for this company and your opinion that it's 33%
             | of english-speaking and european people? Napkin math puts
             | the number of victims at ~400 million (population of europe
             | + north america/3), maybe double that if you charitably
             | count all of Africa being "english speaking".
        
               | lja wrote:
               | Any issues you have, you should read the study listed
               | above. Gather what you want from it, believe what makes
               | sense to you. It doesn't matter to our mission.
        
         | braingenious wrote:
         | Separate question:
         | 
         | We've established that your website's claim that there are 2.6
         | billion victims of revenge porn isn't shared by people that
         | work at Loti and it's more likely ~400 million.
         | 
         | Given that fact, if you were able to get 1% of those people to
         | subscribe (4 million) at $8/mo, you would be taking in
         | $32,000,000 per month ($384,000,000 per year).
         | 
         | Would you not be the most profitable entity in the business of
         | revenge porn?
        
       | toomuchtodo wrote:
       | How do you confirm the identity of your customer to ensure your
       | DMCA takedown notices are legitimate?
       | 
       | How do you programmatically discern between non-consensual adult
       | images being shared against the subject's wishes versus images
       | where they are somewhere public, don't own the copyright to the
       | photo, but the law does not require the copyright holder remove
       | or take down the image?
       | 
       | Cool idea, might need to pivot, regardless an interesting space
       | to be in in these times.
       | 
       | EDIT: Appreciate the replies!
        
         | hirak wrote:
         | We have an error-proof system in place that follows specific
         | protocols and instructions provided by each individual host
         | websites. This helps us filter out 90% non-legitimate takedown
         | notices.
        
         | lja wrote:
         | Confirmation is lower right now as we are working to get people
         | into the app, a DMV/government license before people know who
         | we are may be a too big of a pill to swallow for a starting
         | company.
         | 
         | We do have ML models running in the background to detect abuse
         | and the accounts are flagged to management to reach out to
         | those customers. I don't want to go through all the cat-and-
         | mouse strategies we may have to avoid people gaming them.
         | 
         | If someone has taken pictures for a company and given their
         | model release for that image and its made its way to an adult
         | site, then the individual should not initiate a DMCA. This is
         | something we make our customers aware of before they DMCA
         | content. Also, we know from first hand experience that site
         | operators are quick to deny a DMCA if they do own rights for
         | it. We've talked to them about this very situation.
        
       | thot_experiment wrote:
       | I bet y'all would make a lot more money charging $8/mo to find
       | porn with the exact facial characteristic someone is looking for.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, revenge porn is bad, but charging people
       | money to take it down seems, well I guess better than nothing but
       | let's hope a nonprofit starts maintaining a database like this
       | and completely eliminates any market this site may capture.
       | 
       | Also abusing the DMCA for censorship, even in pursuit of a noble
       | cause is harmful to society, though maybe not more harmful than
       | revenge porn?
       | 
       | I'm really curious how our culture will continue to reckon with
       | the ideas that
       | 
       | a) There are intimate images extant of many people. Many will
       | become most.
       | 
       | b) AI powered face swapping and image generation will make
       | arbitrary porn trivial on home-gamer GPUs in a few years.
        
         | lja wrote:
         | The idea of charging $8/mo for someone to look at anyone's
         | photos online is pretty far off brand for us. We're really
         | looking to help people find just their own photos. I do agree
         | the market would be larger but that's not something we're
         | interested in doing. That breaks ethical barriers for us.
         | 
         | We have to charge money to cover our expenses, most people
         | don't realize how expensive GPU's are and that's the only way
         | to do this cost effectively at scale. Even a non-profit would
         | incur enormous expenses because there is just no way to do this
         | cheap.
         | 
         | There is no abuse of the DMCA process here. Customers are asked
         | to sign an affidavit and we don't allow them to DMCA outside of
         | their facial profiles.
        
           | thot_experiment wrote:
           | I just don't feel like your motives can possibly be aligned
           | with victims if you're trying to make money off victims.
           | 
           | RE: DMCA abuse, it's probably within the letter of the law,
           | the law itself is broken.
           | 
           | Bonus question: How does this all deal with twins? What's the
           | miss rate on facial recognition anyway?
        
             | lja wrote:
             | We're partnered with RAINN and other sexual abuse agencies
             | to give victims in extreme situations free access to our
             | site. Our alignment isn't perfect but we are working to be
             | a useful tool at a low cost.
             | 
             | Some things provide a social good but also have expenses,
             | this happens to be one of them. Doctors charge patients,
             | lawyers charge their clients and we aren't anywhere near
             | those margins.
             | 
             | EDIT: Twins are still a weak spot for us, but we have a
             | plan to build a model that can tell two twins apart.
        
               | thot_experiment wrote:
               | Good answers, I would find this a lot more palatable if
               | you went much harder on the "charity/help" angle. I
               | didn't see any mention of that when I was browsing the
               | site and that's probably something you should be
               | highlighting.
               | 
               | > Doctors charge patients, lawyers charge their clients.
               | 
               | Yeah I'm aware, but because that happens doesn't mean
               | it's the most prosocial system we can implement. I think
               | that you're probably doing good on net and I probably
               | shouldn't have been so negative.
               | 
               | I do worry though that inadequate capitalistic solutions
               | to these sorts of problems serve to preserve a bad status
               | quo in the long run and may end up doing more harm than
               | good?
        
             | aliswe wrote:
             | What the hell
        
       | KomoD wrote:
       | I feel like this can be easily misused
        
         | lja wrote:
         | We have protections in place to prevent misuse but we are aware
         | that prevention will be a large hill for us to climb and we're
         | working on it.
        
         | thot_experiment wrote:
         | I'm not sure what (1) alert per month means, but I _definitely_
         | think that $8 /mo to find porn with your preferred facial
         | characteristics based on some uploaded images seems like a more
         | viable business model. I'm certain there are people who would
         | pay to have a digest of pron with lookalikes of their favorite
         | actresses/whatever mailed to them regularly.
        
           | lja wrote:
           | 1 alert a month means that we'll automatically scan our
           | database once a month and send you an email. It's more of an
           | insurance policy to make sure we didn't find anything for you
           | that month.
        
       | gardenhedge wrote:
       | Hopefully I never have to use this for me but I am glad it exists
        
       | lja wrote:
       | Hi I'm Luke, co-founder.
       | 
       | People are warned that an image lives on the internet forever,
       | this has been especially true for images that are not
       | consensually taken or shared. We're fixing that.
       | 
       | We created Loti (https://goloti.com), a service that uses facial
       | recognition to help users search, find, and reclaim non-
       | consensual intimate images and videos using a streamlined DMCA
       | process we facilitate in our software.
       | 
       | Over 10 million people are victims of non-consensual image
       | sharing in the United States alone. Those are just the people
       | that were even aware that their images were being shared;
       | research shows that up to 30% of victims were hacked or victims
       | of hidden cameras and are unaware.
       | 
       | Our goal is to bring peace of mind that your private images stay
       | private.
        
       | Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote:
       | > Submit clear detailed pictures of your face in order to find
       | porn of yourself.
       | 
       | Do you think that is a good idea?
        
         | lja wrote:
         | Would love clarity, what do you mean? That is the whole point
         | of the service. If you don't submit a clear picture of
         | yourself, there isn't any way for us to search.
        
       | Centigonal wrote:
       | I think this idea has potential, but HN might be far off from
       | your target audience.
        
         | lja wrote:
         | Thanks! I've been a member for a decade and just wanted to
         | share what I'm working on in data science.
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-11 23:02 UTC)