[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Developers, how do you deal with socials, bl...
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Ask HN: Developers, how do you deal with socials, blogging, etc
Throwaway.. because I don't want to tie my actual account to this
one. People - how do you deal with the ongoing requirements it
appears that jobs place, such as social network involvement. To me
- this means LinkedIn posting rubbish, Twitter bollocks, public
GitHub repos for sharing - even the asks from employers to post
here. I, as a person have _zero_ accounts anywhere, except for one
here. I 've been gainfully employed in industry for ~2 decades, and
frankly I have neither need nor desire to have a "social profile".
I speak at conferences when I want to, sans twitter, linkedin, etc.
Moreso - I find the amount of developer advocate written blogspam
(let's just call it marketing crap) only contributes to the web
problems - and hence have started to block... everything, including
my employer's search results (personally, with a plugin in
DuckDuckGo and Google. I'm not interested in writing blog things.
I'm interested in continuing my ongoing work as a principal
engineer, without marketing externally on the fakery of "how great
we/I am/are", or "humbelbragging", or frankly any of the rubbish I
keep encountering. I just want to focus on the things we're
collectively doing to be successful. So... how do you handle this?
Author : throwtheheyaway
Score : 125 points
Date : 2023-01-10 10:04 UTC (12 hours ago)
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| This whole showboating culture in our industry started mid-2000s
| but really accelerated badly with the arrival of Twitter. I have
| always felt it's a real problem. Engineering decisions in
| software should be driven by best practices and methodical
| application of the best technology; not whatever is making its
| way through the hype cycle.
|
| Twitter in particular with its word limits and drive-by comment
| culture is supremely unsuited for technical discussions, and yet
| it gets used this way all the time. It's Wrong(tm).
|
| I've worked in the industry for 25 years, and while I have social
| media accounts they are primarily strictly personal. Other than
| some LinkedIn usage in the last year while hunting for work, it's
| just here on HN, really. (That and a Slack for ex-Googlers, and a
| private Discord for some tech friends I've known since the
| LambdaMOO days)
|
| Here on HN is probably the best "social networking" I've had in
| our industry and where I've encountered the most interesting
| people.
|
| Anyways, if an employer is looking for that kind of showboating,
| peacock-display, it's not a job I want.
| [deleted]
| iLoveOncall wrote:
| > continuing my ongoing work as a principal engineer, without
| marketing externally
|
| Then you have misunderstood the responsibilities of a principal
| engineer.
|
| While I don't think there is any need to have social media
| accounts, publishing engineering articles is a perfectly
| reasonable ask as part of your work responsibilities.
|
| If you think the blogs are little more than spam, then be the one
| writing better articles instead of complaining.
| simpixelated wrote:
| I agree with this. The titles of Staff and Principal,
| generally, include some responsibility for teaching others
| (writing articles is one of many good methods for this) and
| helping to recruit people to your team through external
| marketing.
| gumby wrote:
| > I've been gainfully employed in industry for ~2 decades
|
| Seems like you have the social network you need and the others
| would simply be a waste of time.
|
| When I have a meeting with someone I don't already know I like to
| look them up on linkedin beforehand. But occasionally someone
| doesn't have a profile (or a useful one) there and that's OK by
| me. It's just a convenience feature ("Oh look, they worked at XXX
| too!").
|
| If your company wants all that fluff, and you don't work in the
| company's marketing department, there's something wrong with the
| company.
| minimaul wrote:
| I largely just don't.
|
| My employer regularly asks us to share/like/discuss company
| content on social media.
|
| I just don't have accounts, so don't participate. To be honest
| even if I did I still would not.
|
| I was only asked about this once and I just said I didn't do
| social media in general and they were happy with that answer.
| benmclean wrote:
| I have a personal site and it is the closest thing I could see to
| me doing a blog. Basically it's a dumping ground for projects I
| want to do, I plan on doing a little write up for each one. Right
| now there's only one project in there but I'm working on another
| much bigger one. When it is done I'll do one high quality write
| up of how it works. The ratio of blog:code imo should be low. If
| you want to do a project really well, focus on writing the code.
| If you're proud of it and did a good job, do a little write up.
| Go for quality over quantity, anybody can make "how to get
| started with React and Typescript" or "How to add TailwindCSS to
| a Vue project" because it's been done 100 times. Unless you're
| working on TailwindCSS, this isn't going to impress anyone.
|
| Twitter feels fake. It's like it's a bunch of used-car-salesman-
| like software developers trying to sell you on web3, or crypto,
| or their course to teach you how to code like they supposedly do.
|
| The only places I think it makes sense to have any sort of
| presence might be GitHub, or StackOverflow. On GitHub you might
| have a project you've done that others find useful, something
| pretty niche. This happened to me for a project I had barely even
| started, and a recruiter wound up reaching out over it. This
| project was on npm and GitHub, it had like zero downloads but
| because of the niche that it was in, I was one of the only people
| with a project like this. I could imagine if you get 50 stars on
| a project any employer will look at that and be impressed.
|
| Tl;dr, do what you like to do. If you're really proud of it and
| want to show it off, do a write up. Don't churn out easy crap
| just to do a blog post every week about it.
| codingdave wrote:
| Most people I work with just laugh and ignore it. Our employers
| are welcome to make any request they want, but unless you work in
| marketing it falls outside the scope of our jobs, and we can
| simply not do it. It doesn't even need a reply of any kind.
| satokema wrote:
| Not my job. If they make a big deal out of it they can find a new
| engineer that really needs to be active on social networks.
|
| Anything I'm active on gainfully is as a psuedoanon; it's none of
| their business what I do there. Separation of business and
| pleasure. If asked any accounts that do happen to exist do not
| exist.
|
| Only real name thing I have is a LinkedIn for old coworkers to
| find me on / networking.
| mrzool wrote:
| Honestly... I just don't have time for social media and already
| spend way too much time in front of a screen anyways.
| brundolf wrote:
| To add to the anecdotes, I've never felt pressured by any of my
| employers (explicitly or implicitly) to talk publicly about them
| on social media, my blog, or anything else. I would feel pretty
| weird if that happened, especially on a regular basis. If it's a
| recurring point of contention for you, I would suggest telling a
| higher-up how you feel and/or looking at other jobs
| sanderjd wrote:
| I don't do any of this stuff. I have never had an employer ask me
| to. If they did, I would tell them honestly that I don't want to
| participate in that. I would be surprised if that were a deal-
| breaker, since I am a lot more better at the job they hired me
| for than I am at marketing.
| recvonline wrote:
| A few thoughts...
|
| - I have written a book and the publisher obviously wants to
| spread the word. Do I want to spread the word? Yes, I also want
| to spread the word. Why? Because I think it's a good book and it
| might help some people. So I try to create content to spread the
| word. This results in 80% of people coming across this content
| thinking "I don't need that, that's marketing", vs. 20% who might
| think "Great, I need that".
|
| - If I want to join a new company, a technical blog or active
| developer advocates help me decide. I can get a sense of a
| company culture through what they chose to post and whom they
| hire for their advocate roles.
|
| - Twitter, LinkedIn etc. are a complete waste of time for me
| personally. But again, other people build their presents their to
| sell you their ideas. Is it legit? Sure, why not. How else do you
| get informed about new ideas and thoughts?
|
| All of that means there is tons of noise, since everyone is using
| the same channel (s), and for you, the consumer, means you have
| to filter these channels _a lot_.
|
| I think in the current day&age, where computation and technology
| is part of every day life, your job description changes, and
| educating and "spreading the word" is part of it. But, this can
| be done in an authentic manner. You don't have to lie, or put up
| a big show. Writing and exposing your ideas can also help
| identifying who you are and getting in touch with people and the
| community can help shaping your thoughts and reflecting back on
| yourself.
|
| So all in all, these environments are great for narcissists and
| "bubble people" , which is "bad", but I personally just see these
| social media platforms as channels now of information, where I
| can get new insights, articles and ideas from.
|
| I personally restrict the usage of these platforms now to exactly
| this: Inflow of information. I am building actively a social
| network which is close to me, has nothing to do with being
| online. But I, every now and then, try to contribute to the
| online discourse through articles and blog posts.
|
| What I find liberating is seeing how other professions are doing
| this: I follow endurance sports and psychology on YouTube, and
| what they do is is basically teaching and answering questions.
| rdrsss wrote:
| > - If I want to join a new company, a technical blog or active
| developer advocates help me decide. I can get a sense of a
| company culture through what they chose to post and whom they
| hire for their advocate roles.
|
| I'm curious about this, how does this help you figure out
| culture? Is it a "what's their priority" type of thing? Have
| you been wrong before? What the company communicated public was
| not the reality?
|
| Personally I'm trying to become better at gauging this myself,
| and I've only ever been able to make a "culture" opinion during
| the interview process when I get to hang out and small talk
| with the actual devs I'd be working with.
| recvonline wrote:
| Generally, the more technical the Dev Revels are, the more
| technical is the mindset of the company.
|
| If the DevRevel is promoting work culture 50% of their time,
| it's a priority for the employer and personally, for me, a
| small red flag (you might think otherwise).
|
| Each person you are in touch with from a company gives you a
| sense whom they hire and what the company agenda and priority
| is.
| throwtheheyaway wrote:
| > - If I want to join a new company, a technical blog or active
| developer advocates help me decide. I can get a sense of a
| company culture through what they chose to post and whom they
| hire for their advocate roles.
|
| Working with some of these over the last forever.. I don't in
| any way believe they share anything about the company culture,
| or frankly the correct usage of the company's technology as it
| wants.
|
| I very much see this as people who want to be fully-time
| developers, but aren't currently. Across orgs - I have yet to
| see this not be true, but maybe it's just me, and the others
| with whom I discuss this. Echo champers are very much a thing.
| recvonline wrote:
| That's a very bleak outlook on another profession to be
| honest!
|
| I met a few who were developers for 10+ years and wanted to
| shift, some just wanted to work more client/customer facing
| but still enjoyed the technical work. I mean, if you look at
| everything from an angle of "Coding is the best, everything
| else is marketing crap and sucks", sure, you will find lots
| of evidence for it.
|
| But coding is a very small percentage of the work done by the
| population as a whole. Feeling superior is just damaging your
| mental health and is doing nothing to else.
|
| So yeah, I worked with dev revels. And with every profession
| I crossed path before: Some I liked, some I didn't. Some work
| I thought was necessary, some wasn't.
| nunez wrote:
| I don't think I've ever been asked to participate in social media
| by employers. I blog because I like doing it, but I've never been
| mandated to do it.
| stcroixx wrote:
| I don't do any of that and if I was working somewhere where it
| was required, I'd consider that reason to leave.
| wodenokoto wrote:
| Is it a requirement as in you are told to post on these mediums
| by your employer or do you feel its a requirement in order to be
| hired?
| neilv wrote:
| You might find out where the requests to participate in all those
| things are coming from, and what's actually important.
|
| It could be some random person or department making a request
| they thought up on their own, and/or it could've been an
| initiative down from some upper level that lost some clarity by
| the time it got implemented.
|
| It could also be that -- separate from any requests coming from
| other departments -- the person you report to sees part of a
| Principal role as representing the company publicly in industry
| techie circles (e.g., conferences, online forums, company
| engineering blog posts, standards committee). But maybe they
| don't care whether you Like company posts on LinkedIn.
|
| It could also be that the company doesn't realize that
| encouraging employees to get out there and effectively market
| their personal brands could be bad for retention.
| rcarmo wrote:
| Well, I think I can write about what I did by now.
|
| A few years back, there was a sort of internal competition to see
| who could get the most LinkedIn exposure. I decided to take it as
| a challenge, so I wrote a set of JavaScript snippets that would
| go over my timeline and give me a break down of the correlation
| between keywords/hashtags and "likes" or reactions, and set to
| work.
|
| Since I blog regularly (on a personal level, with a disclaimer),
| wrote Marketing copy in my deep dark past, worked in a place that
| did online advertising and happen to track a lot of tech/industry
| RSS feeds, I had zero issues with coming up with relevant,
| informative and _technical_ posts on a daily basis - posts that
| very seldom had anything at all to do with my employer at the
| time, although they did follow a theme around what we provided.
|
| But I eventually limited myself to two/three a week, and used my
| scripts to figure out what hashtags and wording got the most
| reactions/views. I'd post, wait a couple of days, let Chrome
| scroll through the timeline, "train" the system on my previous
| post, save a .csv file, rinse, repeat.
|
| In less than a month, I was already "winning" the thing by any
| stretch of the imagination, although in the end they awarded the
| "prize" to a sales guy who, despite a lot of pure Marketing
| content, was obviously picked to win due to local politics (I
| can't be more specific than that).
|
| In the process, I learned a fair bit about how effective Bayesian
| classifiers can be and how to combine them for ranking stuff,
| although to be honest I still dislike JavaScript.
|
| So keep in mind that you _can_ do this, have fun, and... not win
| anything, really. I wouldn't do it again, because in the end what
| matters is what you deliver and what kind of reputation you have
| by it, and that's not reinforced by any kind of social network
| _except_ the one where you have people who actually know you.
| geenat wrote:
| >I've been gainfully employed in industry for ~2 decades
|
| For someone with that amount of history, it will not matter.
|
| But for new people: Just keep a generic linkedin that looks
| professional (you dont have to use it, just have a profile). It's
| going to look sus to have zero social presence; might as well
| give HR something to chew on. Don't add your managers or bosses
| on your personal social accounts.
|
| You're better off having some generic stuff up when someone
| google's your name than nothing at all or worse- some
| embarrassing shit you posted 10 years ago.
| [deleted]
| ResearchCode wrote:
| If that looks "suspicious" to an employer, you don't want to
| work there.
| MDGeist wrote:
| For the interview at my current job they didn't even ask for a
| resume/CV they just had the interviewers take a look at my
| Linkedin and asked if there was anything not represented on
| there I wanted them to know about. I barely use Linkedin and
| aside from the major milestones my page is pretty sparse. I
| agree it's advisable for the younger crowd to have something
| for potential employers to take a look at.
| JustSomeNobody wrote:
| > So... how do you handle this?
|
| By not giving in. My social life is nobody's business but mine.
|
| If I'm asked to share something on my social media accounts, I
| tell them no.
|
| If they need me to share on social media, they'll need to set up
| a social media account for me on which to share.
|
| I don't mix work with personal.
| xxEightyxx wrote:
| I'm in the same boat with you. Been in the industry for 20+ years
| and I do not have any social media. One of my employers
| constantly pushes for LinkedIn involvement/activity but I simply
| refuse to participate. I did not become an engineer to share blog
| posts or comment on things in front of hundreds or thousands of
| folks.
|
| However, I do have a few different websites that I used to be
| very active in but have since (for the past 5 years) rarely use
| them. It's usually only to share something interesting and to
| keep my web-deb skills somewhat sharpened.
| nicholasjarnold wrote:
| Same! I've been paid to produce and deploy software solutions for
| maybe slightly less time than you (under 20 years, more than 15).
| I technically still have a Twitter account that I literally never
| login to or interact with in any way. I have zero "social" apps
| on my rooted phone. I dumped Facebook after grad school. I never
| opened any insta, tiktok, etc. I do not blog. I do not post weird
| updates on LinkedIn either. I basically opted out of the entire
| "digital social" thing altogether. People who are important to me
| know how to contact me. I don't feel any need to "have a
| presence" in the digital social sphere, outside of leaving my
| thoughts here sometimes (because I respect this site, how it
| operates and it's community)...and because it hardly feels like
| typical "social" stuff we see today.
|
| So, I guess my point is that like you I've found that it doesn't
| really seem to matter to my career, my compensation or my ability
| to be happy or feel connected to others. You're in good company.
| Cheers!
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| When Frederick the Great repeatedly ordered Seydlitz to attack at
| Zorndorf, eventually threatening that he would pay with his head
| for insubordination, Seydlitz replied:
|
| > _Tell the King my head will be at his disposal after the
| battle. During the battle, I hope he will allow me to employ it,
| to gain victory for him._
|
| https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/Le...
|
| (I've been RIF'd before, and it's nothing like decapitation)
| wodenokoto wrote:
| I don't get it.
|
| When refusing to attack he is threatened he will be killed. His
| reply is: Don't kill me before I attack.
|
| So you are saying OP should refuse until he is threatened to be
| fired?
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| His reply, reminding Frederick that S. is in charge of the
| squadrons of horse because he knows how (most importantly,
| when) to use them, reminded me of OP; rephrasing slightly:
| "I'm interested in continuing my ongoing work as a principal
| cavalryman ... to focus on the things[0] we're collectively
| doing to be successful."
|
| I am saying that although we could imagine OP might possibly
| be fired for refusing to publish rubbish, OP's worst case
| scenario is still far better than Seydlitz'[1].
|
| [0] _Operations of thought are like cavalry charges in a
| battle -- they are strictly limited in number, they require
| fresh horses, and must only be made at decisive moments_ --
| ANW
|
| [1] During their After Action Review, Frederick conceded, at
| least implicitly, that Seydlitz had indeed made better use of
| his little grey cells: https://www.meisterdrucke.com/kunstwer
| ke/1200w/Richard%20Kno...
| asar wrote:
| > _In 1758 he fought at Hochkirch (14 October) and Zorndorf (24
| August). In the latter action, he was given command of the
| cavalry on the left wing. He refused to obey the initial orders
| given to him by Frederick and awaited what he considered to be
| the proper moment to launch a cavalry charge against the
| advancing Russians. He quickly routed the enemy cavalry; he
| then rallied and charged the Russian infantry, but failed to
| break it._
|
| > _He rallied his cavalry behind Zorndorf, waiting for a better
| moment to attack. Just when all seemed lost for the Prussians,
| Seydlitz led 61 squadrons against the Russian cavalry, pushing
| it back into the marshes by the village of Quartschen. He then
| returned to rescue the Prussian infantry, forcing the Russians
| to fall back._
|
| https://www.napoleon-series.org/research/biographies/Prussia...
| jason-phillips wrote:
| I like to practice writing, so as to hone that skill. It's a
| purely selfish exercise, crafting something which I find clever.
|
| I then parlay that skill in professional communications to great
| effect. It's something of a superpower for a software engineer.
| bosch_mind wrote:
| You have a relatively poor attitude. You're a principal engineer
| and sharing things online isn't just for the ego. I learn from
| the internet and who creates the things I learn? Well, principal
| engineers and experienced professionals.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I work for a real jerk (myself).
|
| I believe in a "personal brand," but probably not in the way that
| a lot of the cynics think.
|
| I feel as if each of my public interactions reflect on me,
| personally, so I'm careful about what I post.
|
| That may not seem apparent, but I'm retired, and not interested
| in rejoining the rat race, so I tend to post stuff that may seem
| TMI, to a lot of pros.
|
| However, I keep it positive, almost always, and tend to be vague
| about negative stuff.
|
| I feel as if I should not add to the negativity I see everywhere.
| I'm quite capable of it, but I consciously choose to avoid it;
| even though folks think I'm a stuffy old fart.
|
| This is actually a bit stressful, so this joint is really the
| only place I participate much.
|
| I have a bunch of social media accounts, but most are really
| "placeholders."
| halfmatthalfcat wrote:
| I've been thinking about how I interact on HN and "being
| careful about what I post" but I realized that if I'm "being
| careful" then there are parts of myself that I actually don't
| agree with because I'm not willing to broadcast them or I'm
| scared about being judged.
|
| I think I've realized I need to let go of that and just let me
| be me. Not everyone is going to agree with what I say and
| that's ok, at least I either know or can reflect on the things
| people disagree with and either change or feel more confident
| in the end.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Well, I can report that there are _reasons_ that we don 't
| "say what we think."
|
| That's what people say about some of these hate jockeys: _(
| "They're just saying what everyone thinks")_.
|
| I _am_ being "me," when I'm careful about what I post. I've
| learned (the hard way, mostly), to install a filter on my
| fool mouth.
| halfmatthalfcat wrote:
| Yeah I agree. It's hard to get sucked into emotional
| debates where you end up saying things that you believe but
| things lose context because it's all text. I find myself
| thinking hard about what to say but either I realize it'll
| turn into a diatribe and not worth the effort or it doesn't
| accurately convey my entire point...
| chapium wrote:
| Online socials starting with BBS were simply a way of life for me
| growing up. It has followed me into adulthood. I don't think you
| are missing out, we just operate differently.
|
| I don't interact with anyone on linkedin other than recruiters.
| For ephemeral thoughts I put them on mastodon. I tried twitter
| for a bit but it didn't suit me. Reddit exists for random things
| like bike tag and catching up on local news.
| LLcolD wrote:
| [dead]
| crandycodes wrote:
| Handle what, exactly? Are you actually experiencing any issues
| from not doing these things or are you experiencing FOMO? You've
| not articulated any problem you're facing.
|
| Accusing others of being fake and producing crap may make you
| feel better for not being good at it, but it won't help you
| either way. I hope you're not a Principal Engineer I'm forced to
| work with - the work of those people are important for what we
| work on to succeed, whether you value it or not.
| jjice wrote:
| Github is for myself and my own enjoyment. I'm not incredibly
| active, just a PR here and a new repo there.
|
| Haven't used twitter in about two years and actually just deleted
| it about two days ago. Just deactivated my facebook after not
| using it for 5+ years as well.
|
| I do use Linkedin, but I don't post. I actually did post once
| after an award at work, but that was both a "thanks to everyone"
| and a "by the way if any recruiters wander by". Other than that,
| I don't think I've ever posted and it's really just a live Resume
| for me.
|
| I don't think social media is a requirement at all, at least in
| my world. The people I care about contact me in other ways and
| the people I work with contact me over slack, and if we don't
| work together currently, on LinkedIn. I guess you could call
| LinkedIn useful for me then, but I really just use it as a
| resume.
| Kaotique wrote:
| Just say no. There are probably many more reasons to keep you on
| board than to let you go because you didn't write a blog post.
| yodsanklai wrote:
| Personally, I find many LinkedIn posts a bit ridiculous to the
| point it's a negative signal in some instances. I would just
| avoid a workplace that require this kind of things. What is ok
| though, is the occasional blog post to present an interesting
| piece of technical work without overselling it.
| loktarogar wrote:
| All of those things are just signals to help hirers make the
| right hiring choices. Some folks are too rigid with requirements,
| but in my experience other signals will generally suffice. Show
| them you're the right choice.
| logicalmonster wrote:
| Personally speaking, until I have "fuck you" money, I would not
| choose to be active in public social media under my own name
| while worrying about maintaining or finding a job. Even if it's
| innocuous today, you have no idea what random comment you make
| will be deemed offensive by someone in the future and come back
| to harm you. Jokes that were commonplace and seen as mild humor
| even a few years ago can turn into cancel-worthy offenses if a
| mob comes after you.
|
| What can you do if your job is demanding it? You might be able to
| get out of that requirement by citing privacy concerns and
| requesting reasonable accommodation: claim that somebody has been
| stalking and harassing you in the past for instance and you're
| concerned about cyber-bullying.
|
| If they still insist, maybe it's not too hard to create a
| barebones account and just occasionally repost some of your
| company's press releases or blog posts. You're complying with
| their request even if it's pointless and stupid.
| [deleted]
| recuter wrote:
| > how do you deal with the ongoing requirements it appears that
| jobs place, such as social network involvement
|
| I have no idea who on earth is bothering you with this but I know
| for sure that if you tell them that you are happy to post about
| the company at their behest on your Gab/Parler account they will
| immediately leave you alone. Try to keep a straight face.
| g051051 wrote:
| > how do you deal with the ongoing requirements it appears that
| jobs place, such as social network involvement. To me - this
| means LinkedIn posting rubbish, Twitter bollocks, public GitHub
| repos for sharing - even the asks from employers to post here.
|
| I don't. I've never seen or heard of it being an "ongoing
| requirement" of any kind.
|
| > even the asks from employers to post here.
|
| Your employers ask you to post here? As in, a directive from
| C-Suite? Or is it just a rogue manager trying to make themselves
| look good?
| rcarmo wrote:
| I've had friends at other companies ask me if I could do
| something about a post here because of my karma. There's an
| impression that it matters somehow...
| spoonfeeder006 wrote:
| Yeah I don't like the idea that "you should have a blog" unless
| you legit have something you want to say to the world. Otherwise
| it just feels pretentious and probably just ends up adding a
| bunch of vaccuous content to the internet
| walthamstow wrote:
| I market myself sometimes, but I never market my company
| surume wrote:
| If the software engineering market shrinks as investment slows
| down, good paying / high quality jobs will become more rare and
| competition for them will become more fierce. If you love what
| you, it may be a good idea to plan for rainy days ahead and play
| the game of social posting and marketing.
| default_png wrote:
| "Mmmm tastes like boot"
| snickerbockers wrote:
| i've literally never had any of my employers require me to sign
| up for social networks. on the contrary, my current employer
| recently made everybody take an online course on what _not_ to
| say on social media, and the general gist of it was that it would
| be best if i never talked about work at all.
|
| obviously i have hackernews (even though i hate it), reddit (even
| though i *really* hate it), github (although im contemplating
| moving my project to gitlab or bitbucket due to recent openai
| shenanigans) and fediverse for my own personal time-wasting but
| none of those ever intersect with my job.
|
| i also used to have a linked-in but i deleted it because i only
| ever got communications from spammy job-recruiters who didn't
| even bother to read my profile before messaging me (seriously,
| they'd ask me if i want to interview for a job as a webdev, i'd
| say yes even though im not a web-dev because i was interested in
| changing to a new field at the time, then during the phone
| interview the same person would tell me that i'm not qualified
| for the job because i've only ever worked on compilers and low-
| level kernel/device driver stuff).
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Don't drink. Don't do drugs. Don't do social networks.
| sparks1970 wrote:
| Don't get involved in company Patent applications.
| dv35z wrote:
| Can you share more about this?
| brailsafe wrote:
| If my task for an entire 2 week period was to write a blog post
| explaining part of an API I worked on, I'd be fine with that. I'd
| also be fine with interacting sporadically on public issues. But
| I try and make it crystal clear that if they want me to start
| regularly interacting with customers, I'm not their guy, and I'll
| never be their guy; it's not remotely my core-competency, it
| takes me way more effort and energy to try and maintain
| consistent feedback loops with people than it would for someone
| else. I'm also not paraphrasing, that's exactly what I say.
|
| My productivity is lowest when I'm dealing with many async
| interactions, such as iterating during code review, unless I have
| extremely good systems to make that a brainless task.
|
| I also only use social media for shitposting or talking to actual
| friends, I'm not a sales communicator.
| browningstreet wrote:
| Either 1) don't work in a place that rewards the E in P.I.E. over
| P. or I., or 2) don't expect the rewards that come with E. in
| orgs that prioritize it first.
| itronitron wrote:
| It seems like you are handling this rather well. If you ever
| start to doubt yourself just remember to count all of your past
| and present colleagues that are not posting their latest and
| greatest on social media and doing fine regardless. I am certain
| they are the majority.
| ultra_nick wrote:
| 1. Don't mix work and personal accounts.
|
| 2. For regular people, it's good to have at least one public
| communication method in case of virality
|
| 3. Don't bother with regular posting unless you have regular
| source of content. (Project/Research/Business) It's a surprising
| amount of work to post weekly.
| flandish wrote:
| I tend to keep things separate, too. Having little to no socials
| helps my mental health. If my hobby (oil painting) started to
| outpace my work (sw eng) - maybe I'd start a site, but thats
| about it.
|
| I have old retired / deleted accts from before I prioritized
| health.
|
| Thus: If a future employer OSINTs my names and says "this you?" I
| can honestly say, "no." It's all spam, ai, whatever you want to
| call it.
| mikewarot wrote:
| I used to work for a trade show marketing company, so we all
| jumped on board (in about 2010ish) to get a feel for the space,
| and are all Facebook friends with each other.
|
| I'm glad to still here from them, and keep up on how everyone is
| doing. I never pushed work's stuff on my friends, or did any
| blogspam stuff, and would have refused to do so.
|
| I don't do social media on my phone, neither should you.
| ayylma007 wrote:
| employee mentality, employee limitations. Your boss is looking
| for this stuff for a reason, its worth money. "How" Read Brendan
| Kane or any other work about marketing in this day. "well we make
| a better product" everyone does, and its about to be or already
| is AI automated. Watch "perverts guide to ideology" You are near
| the end of your career, great for you. I as an employer would
| never hire you.
|
| TLDR sure, sure, but if you actually want to sell it you have to.
| LandR wrote:
| I've never experienced this and I've been a developer for 18
| years or so.
|
| Find better employer ?
| scottLobster wrote:
| I'd have one question: What's the charge number for this?
|
| I'm willing to play the game and do what's necessary, that
| includes paperwork, filling out the correct acronyms my company
| expects in JIRA stories, bullshit compliance training and
| potentially writing marketing material. Assuming it doesn't
| become a primary focus of my job I'd just do it. If it becomes
| too much or interferes with my primary duties, I'd bring that up
| with management.
|
| My program is in a funny position where we get corporate emails
| from the marketing department strongly suggesting we do things
| like wear company branded apparel and spam our social media
| profiles with corporate propaganda, only to get a followup from
| security saying "yeah that email? Don't do any of that stuff".
| Needless to say we listen to security.
| worldsavior wrote:
| Simple: just no social media, with reasons. Facebook, Instagram,
| are all a waste of time, employers don't interest in wasting time
| and it doesn't benefit them in anyway, even in communication.
|
| LinkedIn, people might say it's how you find jobs. Wrong.
| LinkedIn is basically another social media. Before, companies
| used to advertise about their open jobs, now it's LinkedIn. It
| doesn't change how you get hired, only how you find the company.
|
| Basically, social media is not needed, and only wastes your time.
| Yes it's nice with friends. But frankly, real friends communicate
| in person, not behind a mask.
| dontchooseanick wrote:
| Simple
|
| - No linkedin, no instagram, no fb, and afaic not even a google
| account (yes android works, rooted)
|
| When my employer asks me to "publish", "have a presence" or
| "shine for the company" in any way I find the NDA, security rules
| and legalese I've signed and reply
|
| 1. This is against cybersecurity rules, can you sign me a paper
| stating you want me to break rule #37 and rule #61
|
| 2. Then I ask him to accept all the end-user agreements in the
| company name or its own personal name, and send me back the
| login+password so I can contribute daily BS - oh and buy me a
| company owned phone if such interactions involve using a
| MobileApp(tm), no way I'm mixing personal and work on _my_ phone
|
| The discussion stopped here, never got a reply, did this to 3
| employers already
| switch007 wrote:
| I don't want to interrupt your "stuck it to the man" story but
| I'm just curious whether it was HR telling you to participate
| with a clear message you'd otherwise be fired, or whether it
| was just over enthusiastic marketing folk?
| dontchooseanick wrote:
| Over-enthusiastic marketing. Sometimes it was HR promoting
| participating in social networks "for the company". Nobody
| ever threatened me, they were just really pushy, until the
| pushback
| conductr wrote:
| Lol, that's a simple "no, I don't want to do that"
| WesolyKubeczek wrote:
| > did this to 3 employers already
|
| Let me guess -- in the last month?
| dontchooseanick wrote:
| Nope, 10 years, 2 years and 4 years resp.
| dustedcodes wrote:
| If you would have just said "sorry I'm not really into social
| media" then perhaps you could have ended the conversation in 2
| minutes and wouldn't have had to repeat it to further 2
| employers shortly later.
| dontchooseanick wrote:
| Perhaps I didn't explain it well. Those employers kept me !
| and I didn't have to repeat it to other potential employers
| "shortly" later.
|
| It just ended the conversation there. The crucial part being
| I'm not against publishing as a part of my job, but no way
| you're making it a personal requirement / on _my_ behalf.
|
| The outcome being "let's stay good friends", not "you're
| fired"/"don't get the job", I did get it. As such, not ending
| the conversation in 2 mins but letting them reviewing their
| argument is crucial : the constraints are yours, and you
| don't have anything to blame me for ..
| dustedcodes wrote:
| Fair enough :)
|
| It was just funny to read "never got a reply, did this to 3
| employers already" and then I couldn't resist this tongue
| in cheek response. Sorry ^^
| conductr wrote:
| I still think your "sorry I'm not really into social
| media" would have most likely ended it as well and would
| have come off a lot more polite. Could have escalated it
| if needed from there
| marktangotango wrote:
| It was a nice troll, gave me a chuckle.
| 99failures wrote:
| Employer / Employee has to be a match. If an employer prefers
| employees who have a social presence, then you and them are not a
| match.
| linkjuice4all wrote:
| Unless it's already included in your job description - don't do
| it.
|
| Typically companies are paying for your expertise and your
| ability to execute on it. Documenting that expertise and giving
| it away for free through company-branded properties devalues your
| knowledge.
|
| If a company wants you to create that then they should pay you,
| make it part of your job, or make a content creator at the
| company interview you and write it.
|
| If you really want to create blog or social content about your
| abilities stick it on your personal website where you can own it
| and reference it in the future.
|
| It's usually obvious when friends and coworkers are pushing the
| company line on their personal social profiles. It usually comes
| across as disingenuous and lowers the value of the content even
| more.
| marktangotango wrote:
| I'd even go so far to say this ask is a sign of ill health of
| the company. Requiring everyone to do what are essentially
| marketing activities is a red flag imo. If the products and
| services aren't connecting with the market such that customers
| or potential customers aren't independently posting about it,
| that's a problem. Or if the product isn't discoverable via
| traditional methods, that's another problem.
| Lapsa wrote:
| read the next job listing
| kstenerud wrote:
| Every time I've been asked to do this, a simple "I don't have any
| social media accounts" has usually been enough.
|
| In the old days I kept a few BS accounts around so that I could
| demonstrate posting company stuff, but I don't do that anymore
| and the accounts are long gone anyway.
|
| At the end of the day, I won't make a social media account, and
| even if I did, it would never get used for anything personal. If
| pressed, explaining that a social media account that posts
| nothing but company PR would actually be detrimental to the
| company, should be enough to make them drop the idea. If not,
| there are plenty of other companies out there that will accept
| non-social-media types.
| 28304283409234 wrote:
| Usenet and IRC were the socials when I started. And mailinglists.
| There was always a crowd there, but I figure most people were
| just doing work without bothering to post about it. Same as now.
| francisofascii wrote:
| I have played along a little. I created a one or two blog posts.
| Many people don't. It is not a requirement and seems to have zero
| impact on raises. Writing blog posts are hard and draining, and
| of course done on your own time, but it is not a bad idea to give
| it a shot once or twice for the experience.
| zmxz wrote:
| Like many others and OP - I don't participate in "social" part at
| all and the employer does not require it and I too have been
| employed for ~2 decades in the industry, 17 of which with same
| employer (with full freedom to be creative and everything a
| senior dev expects from a good employer).
|
| I'm not interested in writing blogs, I use Obsidian to create
| snippets and link up things I stumble upon and find useful or to
| note down my own code snippets, techniques and similar. I find
| blogs very hard to read, I often need technical info only (i.e.
| config reference, code sample or syntax example).
|
| The whole "social" part of the current web is not something I can
| relate to at all, it feels fake and too inflated with useless
| information so I tend to avoid it.
|
| If there were requirements to virtue signal, to write blogs, to
| write all over Linkedin "I am great but I would not be here
| without my $team of awesome $people who inspire me
| $some_other_generic_motivational_anal_alpinism" - I think I'd
| burn out and pursue a different career.
|
| I ignore the popular "social" platforms, I use IRC and
| phpbb/vbulletin based forums to interact with people that have
| similar non-work-related interests. I don't think I'm missing out
| on anything and I feel no curiosity to be a part of this
| post-2010. part of social web.
| robofanatic wrote:
| > So... how do you handle this?
|
| Here is some practical advice
|
| It seems like an expectation from your current management and you
| being a principal engineer they expect you to follow whatever
| their current policy for the team is. Either convince your
| manager about your stand or just go with the flow. You don't have
| to come up with original post every time. You can simply
| repost/retweet or "like" other's stuff.
|
| Based on my experience all these kinds of initiatives are
| temporary and likely to change or lose relevance over time. All
| of this will stop if you get a new management in future.
| ls15 wrote:
| > or just go with the flow
|
| How does one do this with social media?
|
| Half-ass some tweets and blog posts until people stop asking?
|
| Or try to write the smartest tweet ever and spend 12 paid hours
| on refining the wording?
| robofanatic wrote:
| Just retweet or reshare your friends or coworkers posts if
| you can't or don't have time to come up with something
| original.
| thesuitonym wrote:
| Like you, I don't. And I think most people don't, but you never
| hear about that because people like us don't have blogs. =)
|
| That said, I _do_ have a website, and I occasionally write about
| things I find interesting on it, but it 's not a blog, and I only
| update it once or twice a year. I think in 2020 I updated it a
| whopping four times (Maybe you can guess why).
|
| Twitter? Nah. I have an account, but I only use it for contacting
| companies when the usual channels don't work. LinkedIn? There's
| an account, but again it's almost entirely disused.
|
| I've never had a company ask me to do anything with my own
| personal social media accounts, aside from a general, "Hey we're
| launching this new thing, if anyone wants to like and share, that
| would be cool."
| swyx wrote:
| what employer is out there actually requiring you to do any of
| this? i dont see any evidence that it is becoming required
| Tade0 wrote:
| One way out of this, outside of outright refusing to comply, is
| to say that you're a privacy oriented person and limit your
| presence in social media.
|
| Last time I created a social media account for work was when I
| was a junior dev and my employer wanted to inflate their apparent
| size on LinkedIn.
| mattrighetti wrote:
| I don't have socials. Removed all of them because they are a
| waste of time and I don't care about what other people "are
| doing" (if I'll ever care, I'll text them). When you realise that
| there are engineers put in place to make them addictive to the
| point of making you waste 6+ hrs a day, your eyes will open
| instantly. No matter how much control of yourself you have, you
| are going to fall for it one way or another.
|
| I have a LinkedIn account on which I don't follow anyone so I
| don't get to see what others are doing on the platform. I don't
| press like on anything, I don't comment on a single thing. I have
| to have it because you'll never know about future job
| opportunities.
|
| I hate that YouTube introduced shorts.
|
| I have a website, people can read what I write there and can find
| my contacts and CV. If I'll ever think about praising a company,
| you're going to find it there (spoiler: it's never going to
| happen).
|
| Personally I've never seen anyone requiring socials for a
| position, I would probably reject the offer.
| rdrsss wrote:
| > "So... how do you handle this?"
|
| Same as you, I don't bother. I've only been working
| professionally for 14 years, and have also gotten this advice fed
| to me from my friends, "write a blog", "contribute to open
| source", "portfolio portfolio portfolio". And never once have I
| gotten jobs based on these things, nor have I hired anyone based
| on these things. That's not to say they aren't valuable, but I
| don't think they're as valuable as lots of people say they are.
| Or rather the companies that hire people who care about these
| things / find them useful are a smaller segment than people
| think.
|
| Linkedin is an interesting one. It's the only "social" account I
| have, and that's because, for me, it does provide actual value. I
| never post, but I get lots of messages from talent acquisition
| people and can see when former coworkers are available for new
| positions or have positions open at their orgs. So in that
| capacity it still provides value to me.
|
| That being said, does anyone actually read company blogs? I can
| only remember a handful of posts over the last 10 years that
| actually held technical depth to be interesting. Maybe I'm
| looking in the wrong place, or maybe they're not intended for me.
| tristor wrote:
| I'm in a similar position, and I don't really see any problems.
| Unlike you, I have accounts on these services, I just hardly ever
| log in and don't actively use them. I've had multiple employers
| tweet about my conference talks and add my twitter handle, I see
| that someone asked me a question on twitter 1-2 years later when
| I randomly decide to login. I never post on LinkedIn, and I don't
| really share much of anything on GitHub, because most of the work
| I've done in my career either was proprietary and hidden or was
| very much open-source but likely mediated through other parties.
|
| At any rate, I'd say don't worry about it. I don't bother even
| being concerned with this, as what ultimately matters is your
| direct professional network and reputation. Giving talks at
| conferences and getting things done, being involved in
| interesting work, is more than sufficient to sustain and grow
| your career. In fact, my experience interacting with a lot of
| technical folks who have huge social media presences is that they
| have lost some of their technical skills (or maybe never had them
| at the level they claim) and have become mostly focused on
| marketing fluff. I have found that as an engineer, and now as a
| PM, that concentrating on substance over flash is the right
| approach. Flash can definitely be a way to get things too, but if
| there's no substance there, it's not sustainable. Social media is
| just an accelerator for people who know how to market themselves,
| but without the underlying substance it ultimately goes nowhere
| meaningful.
|
| You do you, don't worry about what other folks are doing, just
| keep doing good work and talking about it with people you
| respect.
| strzibny wrote:
| I use twitter (https://twitter.com/strzibnyj) and I have a blog
| (https://nts.strzibny.name) but I don't think you have to market
| yourself this way per se at all. But it's 100% helpful.
| pprotas wrote:
| It is so interesting to me that people use this thread as an
| opportunity to market their Twitter/blog. I know this is common
| on Hackernews, but for some reason this one irked me more than
| the others.
| jahsome wrote:
| Sleaze gonna sleaze.
| axegon_ wrote:
| Hardly any presence. I have a twitter account but it's
| practically dead. The only social media account I use regularly
| is my reddit account but only for administrative purposes: I'm a
| moderator of one of the top-5 largest subs. Some people at work
| know about this but not because they needed to know, I just
| shared it in an informal conversation. Also my reddit account
| can't be tied to me so... Also, as I said, purely administrative
| and I don't really engage with users or the content. Most of what
| I do is fully automated at this point. Blogging - I try to get in
| it every now and then but purely for the sake of keeping track of
| what I do in my spare time as experiments but I don't have enough
| time to devote to it unfortunately.
| pjc50 wrote:
| Everything I do is under NDA. So I blog about films instead.
| _shrug_
|
| I have a LinkedIn, which I log into when I'm actually looking for
| a job. I never "post" there, it's a wasteland.
| doix wrote:
| I'm not on Twitter/LinkedIn and have basically nothing on public
| on Github. Hasn't been an issue for me somehow.
|
| I just say I don't have any social media accounts and that I'm a
| private person. I've not felt pressured to post something, but if
| I was, I'd just refuse. I guess in the worst case they fire me,
| but I'd just find a job somewhere somewhere else.
|
| I guess my advice is just keep ignoring the bullshit as long as
| the consequences aren't something you can't handle. Obviously if
| you're the single earner in your family and barely making ends
| meat, you might have to suck it up.
| ResearchCode wrote:
| Say no and find a better job if your manager doesn't like it.
| throwaway78678 wrote:
| In my current job they asked me to update my linkedin. I said
| "haha nope". Latest entry is from 2017. Never heard from it again
| in the past 5y.
|
| In a previous job, they asked me to post a review on glassdoor. I
| said "haha nope". They came back after 6 months insisting I do
| so, I told them "no.". They came back at it after another 6
| months, I asked what was their budget for bribing glassdoor into
| removing a bad review. They finally go it.
|
| I've never had issues with not having "social" accounts. Every
| time it was mentioned during an interview I just jokingly said it
| is time that I reinvest in my own projects then usually they were
| (rightfully) more interested to see what I did which I would show
| from my laptop or my personal website (that would be up during my
| job search and put to rest right after). So in other terms, I'm
| playing the game when I want to and/or when there's something in
| it for me.
|
| That said my profile is a bit of a niche one and I'm not really
| making public talks etc so ymmv.
| davzie wrote:
| That's very interesting that you ramp up the personal marketing
| via your website when searching but bring it down again
| afterwards. I think that's a really good approach. My instinct
| is that this would reduce the chances that people would see
| your website and come to you with potentially more interesting
| or aligned work but in my 15 years with my website up and
| running I think this has happened to me so little that it's not
| worth worrying about.
| fhd2 wrote:
| Bit of a different take - I'm a programmer, but I've held the
| title CTO for the last 8 years.
|
| As a CTO, I've been routinely asked by non-technical peers and PR
| departments to represent the company more. Sometimes citing
| obscure reasons such as attracting technical talent - when we
| never had an issue with that.
|
| So far, I've largely resisted it by reasoning that it's not the
| most valuable thing I could be doing. As soon as I asked folks
| about concrete goals, KPIs, and business value, the arguments
| fell apart. If someone's job is to "do marketing", especially if
| they're inexperienced and/or have a small budget, they'll look to
| what they see other companies do and try to delegate it as much
| as they can. Even for marketing people, conference talks and
| blogging rarely have that much proven business value compared to
| other things they could be doing, in my experience. For
| programmers, that's all the more true.
|
| Even now that I went into consulting, I don't think hopping
| conferences and writing blog posts is gonna pay off more than
| other things I could be doing. I enjoy discussion (like here on
| HN), but something in me is averse to generating more noise -
| which most of my thoughts probably are. I'd rather build a few
| deeper relationships than an order of magnitude more shallow
| ones.
| conductr wrote:
| > it's not the most valuable thing I could be doing
|
| > Even now that I went into consulting
|
| I have a couple counter points on this. Previous CTOs I know
| that post to LinkedIn a lot, helped fill open roles, share
| company developments, and appear well networked "IT gurus".
| Then eventually started their consulting firms. Thing was, they
| were like executive celebrities to their dozens->hundreds of
| reports they managed over the years while holding their CTO
| roles. Fast forward a few years, many of those reports are now
| >=director levels managing $xxx million of budget dollars at
| various other companies. So, when they hear their old CTO is
| starting a consulting company, well you know how that goes. The
| CTO consulting firm is quickly a 100+ team. So maybe not the
| best use of your time for the company you work for at the
| moment, but it can pay dividends in the future for you
| personally.
| werber wrote:
| I've had one employer that "soft" pushed employees to do social
| advertising on their personal accounts. I quit shortly after, it
| made me unbelievably uncomfortable and was a sign of a culture
| that my life is incompatible with my temperament. Before quitting
| I just completely disengaged from social media (no apps on my
| phone, passwords too confusing to remember stored on a computer I
| didn't bring to work). I don't think I even realized I was doing
| it, and in the language of 2023, I think I was "soft quitting"
| muzani wrote:
| The same way you deal with other processes you don't like -
| don't. Same goes for leetcode, work trials, etc.
|
| It is a kind of cultural filter. If you think doing it would make
| you better at your job, then use it as motivation to do it.
| Otherwise, there's plenty of other places to work. It will likely
| get worse once you join; sometimes things like "knowledge
| sharing" becomes part of the performance review.
| gwbas1c wrote:
| "You be you."
|
| There's plenty of demand for engineers like us, and we know that
| the places that need us often "take what they can get."
|
| And, don't forget that your Hacker News posts are part of your
| brand, too. You can put a link to your Hacker News profile on
| your resume.
| perrygeo wrote:
| Mixing work and personal accounts is a strict no for me. I have
| no problem at all blogging, tweeting, etc for an employer ... as
| long it's published on my employer's account. I'm selling time
| and expertise to the company, not unfettered access to my
| personal accounts.
|
| Unless you're explicitly selling ad space on your social media
| profile as an part of your contract ("influencer" style), it's
| completely unreasonable for the company to assume they have
| access to your property.
| tiborsaas wrote:
| I sense some FOMO from your post. If it works for you without
| having these accounts and engaging in getting more social online,
| then why bother with getting onboard, but it really feels you
| don't want any of this.
|
| > I just want to focus on the things we're collectively doing to
| be successful.
|
| What's preventing you doing it?
|
| I personally have a bunch of social media accounts and post stuff
| regularly, but only stuff I care about, so I can get behind them
| 100%. Sometimes it's deep stuff, but mostly rubbish shitpost, it
| just entertains me.
|
| I don't think it's _required_ to land a job to have these
| accounts. A LinkedIn one is the only one that 's good to have,
| but only to get discovered more easily. You don't need to
| contribute to the cringefest that's 98% of the content there.
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