[HN Gopher] VALL-E: Microsoft's new zero-shot text-to-speech model
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       VALL-E: Microsoft's new zero-shot text-to-speech model
        
       Author : cbeach
       Score  : 476 points
       Date   : 2023-01-09 11:48 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (mpost.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (mpost.io)
        
       | bamboozled wrote:
       | Oh that's great news \s
       | 
       | Do other people read these types of headings and just think
       | immediately about how freaking scary this stuff is going to
       | get...if it's actually accurate ?
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | A company called Lyrebird claimed they could replicate a voice
         | in less time and had demos available a few years ago. The
         | deepfake scare of 2019 also seems like a long time ago.
        
         | sendfoods wrote:
         | Yeah, I am increasingly nervous about some point in the future
         | where you cannot trust any digital medium because of deep
         | fakes, NERFs, voice cloning...
         | 
         | The only possible solution I have seen being talked about is
         | digitally signing any and all "real" content, similar to
         | GPG/SSH.
        
           | ravivyas wrote:
           | Photoshop and minor video manipulation is enough to trick
           | people into believing fake news, this will make it harder. I
           | see political parties doing simple edits to make people
           | believe anything, this will push it multiple notches higher.
        
             | iso1631 wrote:
             | > Photoshop and minor video manipulation is enough to trick
             | people into believing fake news
             | 
             | If the news confirms what they think is the truth, it
             | doesn't need manipulation, just a fake heading
             | 
             | https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/climate-protest-ukraine-
             | bo...
             | 
             | for example (and in that case it even had the true caption
             | on the video, just not in English)
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | That they can do so without consequences is almost as scary
             | as that they can do so in the first place.
        
               | willnonya wrote:
               | Fraud, slander etc are already illegal. There are
               | consequences for crossing these lines.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | AFAIK _nothing_ ever happened to the political parties
               | that use these tactics. But I 'll be happy to be
               | corrected.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | Not in politics they aren't. There was an _incredibly_
               | high bar to clear for the Alex Jones libel lawsuit to
               | succeed.
        
             | teekert wrote:
             | You really have low exceptions for humanity. Most people
             | are not complete idiots you know. I think your opinion is
             | pretty elitist. Or do you think you yourself will fall for
             | this as well?
        
               | ravivyas wrote:
               | Less elitist(might really sound like one), more realist
               | who knows that masses devolve to the lowest common
               | denominator of sorts based on the information they are
               | provided
        
               | citizenkeen wrote:
               | Not the person you're responding to, but I don't think
               | it's egotist at all. I'm sure I'll fall for some news
               | manipulation. I'm sure I already have.
               | 
               | I don't think it's elitist to think many people will be
               | duped. I think it's arrogant to think you won't.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | Bunch of people just stormed the Brazilian government
               | buildings yesterday over a fake "election theft"
               | narrative. This stuff will be constantly tuned until
               | enough people _do_ fall for it, like advertising.
               | 
               | There's also the unravelling biography of
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Santos#Scandals (you
               | know someone's doing well when their "scandals" section
               | has ten subheadings! And that's all old-fashioned manual
               | fraud)
               | 
               | (I'm now wondering how far you could get with an elected
               | official who's entirely deepfaked and only appears in
               | recordings. Probably all the way to being sworn in, at
               | which point someone has to appear in person. People have
               | occasionally been elected despite being _dead_ , so it's
               | not impossible)
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | > Probably all the way to being sworn in, at which point
               | someone has to appear in person. People have occasionally
               | been elected despite being dead, so it's not impossible)
               | 
               | Unless the people doing the swearing in are also fake.
        
               | swader999 wrote:
               | Or millions of people passively accepted the results of a
               | stolen election. That would be an equally viable scenario
               | with this technology. You just won't know the truth
               | anymore.
        
               | benlivengood wrote:
               | It's not equally viable; there are centuries worth of
               | checks and balances designed to prevent voting fraud and
               | errors vs. the ease of speaking a lie on video.
               | 
               | If electoral boards around the country or at the national
               | level were all sounding the alarm for irregularity in
               | voting returns or procedures then an election might have
               | been stolen. As it stands, the election results match the
               | earlier polls which is a strong indicator that, at best,
               | the election became a tossup at the time it was held, and
               | the military also didn't find any reason to suspect fraud
               | or error.
        
               | willnonya wrote:
               | Perhaps most people aren't, evidence is pending, but
               | enough of them have been proven to be that this is a real
               | concern.
        
               | nullsense wrote:
               | >enough of them have been proven to be that this is a
               | real concern
               | 
               | This matters a loooot more than the smart enough people
               | realize too, because it's so difficult to imagine what
               | it's like being south of that threshold, the potential
               | consequences are difficult to imagine.
        
               | timeon wrote:
               | It is easy to see through bullshit... ex-post. But not so
               | easy in real-time.
               | 
               | > Or do you think you yourself will fall for this as
               | well?
               | 
               | Yes.
        
               | sethammons wrote:
               | Agent K: A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky
               | dangerous animals and you know it. --Men in Black
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | I don't believe anything digital anymore for quite a while.
           | Heck, pictures have been staged and faked since the beginning
           | of photography. Modern tech just makes it easier.
           | 
           | Maybe, just maybe, human society will move back to personal
           | interaction, since apparently you cannot trust call, voice
           | and video, anymore in the future.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | > human society will move back to personal interaction
             | 
             | Which implies a much narrower, less diverse, more elitist
             | system of both politics and economy, as it gets harder to
             | trust people from outside your existing circle.
        
               | hef19898 wrote:
               | True. Sometimes it seems some people read every CyberPunk
               | story and considered it an instruction instead of
               | something between a parody and a warning.
        
               | brightstep wrote:
               | Hard to get more elitist than our politics and economy
               | are now at the height of digital interconnection. The
               | liberal democratic revolutions and popular democratic
               | swell of the US labor movement under FDR all happened
               | without the internet. A return of social connection to
               | the community would be very much to our political
               | benefit.
        
         | chmod775 wrote:
         | At some point natural people are going to use cryptographic
         | signatures just to authenticate themselves in daily life. No
         | video, audio, or text can be presumed real unless signed by the
         | human subject.
        
           | zigman1 wrote:
           | But... That's good no?
           | 
           | > No video, audio, or text can be presumed real unless signed
           | by the human subject.
           | 
           | Where is the controversy in that?
        
             | Someone wrote:
             | Those subjects could lie.
             | 
             | Journalists would have a hard time showing that an
             | interviewee actually said what claim they said.
             | 
             | Wire-tapping by the police also would become useless in
             | court.
             | 
             | = I would adjust it to "unless it has a reliably chain of
             | trust". That would mean that people could judge differently
             | about whether to accept some things as true, but I think
             | that's unavoidable.
        
             | rippercushions wrote:
             | It would be nice if we were at 100% signing, but currently
             | we're at ~0%, and the transition is going to be _rough_.
        
               | willnonya wrote:
               | Why would that be nice?
               | 
               | Follow the thou g ht through to how it would work and
               | what it would mean in terms of privacy for the average
               | person.
               | 
               | Your niceties seem dystopian to me.
        
             | jddj wrote:
             | Agreed. The time between now and then is much scarier.
             | 
             | Companies can't even wrap their heads around sim swapping
             | scams and social engineering of secret questions.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | To do that, any meaningful communication will have to be
           | recorded to be signed by the person, on a device provided to
           | them by their Trust Authority company. Can't be just any
           | device, because the chain of custody is as strong as its
           | weakest link. Depending on the country, the Trust Authorities
           | will be private companies with large regulatory exposure,
           | like banks, or just governments themselves.
           | 
           | But hey, at least this will solve the problem of journalists
           | quoting people out of context: they won't be able to claim
           | you've said something without you personally signing off on
           | it with your cryptographic key.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | Or maybe it will be like today - if it's reported by
             | Reuters/... it's trusted, if it's reported by DailyStar,
             | maybe not.
        
             | Asraelite wrote:
             | > Can't be just any device, because the chain of custody is
             | as strong as its weakest link
             | 
             | I don't quite understand what you mean. We already trust
             | phones and computers not to be compromised for things like
             | online banking, so why not allow these devices to sign
             | recordings using keys lent to them by the main trust
             | device? You could allow revocation of these keys.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | > _We already trust phones and computers not to be
               | compromised for things like online banking_
               | 
               | Sorta, kinda. "We already trust phones and computers"
               | because we have no better alternatives _yet_.
               | 
               | There's a reason online banking is at the front of the
               | push for device attestation, and thanks for Google
               | happily obliging, rooting your Android phone is pretty
               | much pointless now. This is coupled with a parallel push
               | to do your banking through a mobile app, or _at least_ to
               | use it as a second authentication factor, which makes the
               | app necessary just as much. This means we 're already
               | undergoing the transition I'm talking about: in the
               | nearby future, you'll _have to_ use a pristine, unrooted,
               | unmodded phone from a blessed corporate vendor, to
               | perform basic functions like paying for things and
               | managing your account. And yes, such device _will_ be
               | appropriate for signing everything else too - and the
               | vendor owning the key will be your Trust Authority.
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | There'd be a variable scale of trust: for many people, a
             | signature from a generic phone would be fine since nobody
             | is going to attack the secure element just to forge a valid
             | signature. National level politics, or a billionaire's
             | divorce, could be a very different story, however.
        
           | lxgr wrote:
           | Given that digital signatures have been around for decades,
           | yet banks, the government, and the legal system still treat
           | signed (and potentially notarized) physical paper or scans of
           | it as the gold standard, and SMS-OTP as a close second, I
           | wouldn't hold my breath.
           | 
           | All digitally approved contracts I've ever encountered were
           | e-"signed" (i.e. me emulating a paper signature at a
           | computer), not digitally signed, due to lack of a mutually
           | trusted public key infrastructure.
           | 
           | In that sense, I would be sad but not surprised if we instead
           | moved to a system of "trusted recording devices", where
           | scanners, cameras and microphones by some vendors are defined
           | to be trusted, signing their outputs and leaving the
           | underlying workflows (signatures, recordings of verbal
           | affirmations etc.) largely untouched.
        
             | Semaphor wrote:
             | With all the (deserved) ridicule Germany gets for our
             | failed digitalization efforts, we use public/private key
             | pairs for our taxes, and IIRC even our national ID supports
             | some PKI thing (not sure how that works exactly, never had
             | any use for my ID's online features, doesn't seem
             | widespread)
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | > not sure how that works exactly, never had any use for
               | my ID's online features
               | 
               | I think that's a pretty apt summary of the state of
               | digital ID in Germany: Commendable technical basis (with
               | some privacy-preserving aspects too, including selective
               | assertions, e.g. "older than 18" or "EU citizen").
               | 
               | When I called about actually getting such an ID card
               | (several times) as a non-citizen, which is explicitly
               | mentioned as a feature of the scheme, I only received the
               | acoustic equivalent of blank stares.
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | When my wife got her temporary residence permit in 2018,
               | it came with exactly the same online features as our
               | national ID card. Yours might have been too old.
        
               | lxgr wrote:
               | EU citizens don't need (and in fact can't get) a
               | permanent residency card.
               | 
               | For that reason, Germany introduced a "non-identity"
               | (i.e. not doubling as a photo ID) e-signature card in
               | 2021, but apparently almost nobody is requesting it, so
               | most administrative offices don't know how to issue
               | one...
        
               | Semaphor wrote:
               | Oh wow, that sounds like quite the oversight. I'm fully
               | of the opinion that my fellow Europeans should be allowed
               | to have a digital ID that they can't use anywhere ;)
        
         | mrtksn wrote:
         | With all that ML stuff going on we can no longer trust our
         | devices to guarantee authenticity of their behaviour. By that,
         | I mean we can no longer be sure that the human voice produced
         | by the speaker of our handheld computers is happening because a
         | human somewhere else spoke to a microphone.
         | 
         | Unfortunately the move towards it is nothing new, we gradually
         | lost text and images and now the remaining media is closing.
         | 
         | This will probably decimate online public forums completely and
         | off-person communications will en up being P2P through trusted
         | devices. Closed communities in WhatsApp, Telegram, Slack and
         | Discord already replaced forums.
         | 
         | Maybe if infestation of closed communities with machines
         | becomes a thing, maybe the real life gatherings will make a
         | comeback?
         | 
         | I don't know but I used to mock Sci-Fi movies about portraying
         | aliens as uncivilised that don't seem to have the means to have
         | developed all that tech but I'm no longer sure. Maybe what will
         | happen is, we will create a symbiotic life where machine will
         | no longer be tools but partners and they will take care of us
         | to reduce us to our basic instinct.
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | Yes. Then I listened to the samples, and was relieved that it's
         | not good enough to handle a well-known voice impersonation...
         | yet.
         | 
         | My primary worry is for criminal misuse. There's a class of
         | scams where the scammers find elderly victims, call them, and
         | pretend to be their children or grandchildren on vacation in a
         | plausible city and suddenly in need of money to help get their
         | passport back or a ticket home.
         | 
         | There are any number of cases where I have accepted an order
         | worth large sums of money over the phone from someone I have
         | previously dealt with and feel familiar with their voice.
        
           | silon42 wrote:
           | Time to look into robot-voice plugins that activate when the
           | caller is not in the contacts.
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | Only a year ago, my bank replaced their (already not very
           | secure) second factor authentication with voice recognition.
        
             | chinathrow wrote:
             | They will recycle it for sure once fraud hits their
             | internal thresholds. Until that: self defense.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | It's mind boggling that the banks, who you think would
               | have the most to gain from staying ahead of the tech scam
               | curve, can't be bothered and instead continue to play a
               | slow defense. I suppose they aren't losing THEIR money.
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | It's very concerning how ubiquitous this very soon to be
             | insecure authentication factor is.
             | 
             | https://www.fidelity.com/security/fidelity-myvoice/overview
             | 
             | https://www.schwab.com/voice-id
             | 
             | https://blogs.perficient.com/2016/04/18/3-benefits-of-
             | vangua...
             | 
             | https://www.chase.com/personal/voice-biometrics
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | No, I read these types of headings and think how awesome open
         | world gaming is going to be when any random developer can fully
         | voice their game cheaply. The AAA benefits too: you get a lot
         | of stilted dialogue when the script and gameplay diverge and
         | you have to work with what you have - a world where the writers
         | can just redo that on the fly pretty much up till release would
         | mean we'd be looking at a new era of dynamic storytelling.
         | 
         | It'll be interesting when someone releases the first MMO which
         | combines GPT models and VO generation to fill out the in-
         | universe world with dynamic characters who can react to
         | surrounding events.
        
         | lannisterstark wrote:
         | Oh great, more fearmongering.
         | 
         | What cases do you think it will be used wrongly in? It can't do
         | 1:1 realistic phone calls, the processing it'd need for that is
         | beyond the reach of any average user.
         | 
         | I just would like this so I can copy-paste books/text and
         | listen to it in the voices of my favorite narrators, but can't
         | have that, can we? No, it'll be super dangerous, I'll listen
         | myself to nuking a country or some such.
        
           | alfalfasprout wrote:
           | Compute keeps getting cheaper. This will absolutely be within
           | the reach of a dedicated user in a very short span of time.
           | 
           | If you can't see the danger in this, perhaps it's more that
           | you're ok with it.
        
           | Tao3300 wrote:
           | > the voices of my favorite narrators
           | 
           | If you really like them and their work, why would you want a
           | forgery?
        
           | r-zip wrote:
           | If you seriously don't think this will be widely abused, then
           | you're extremely optimistic.
           | 
           | Spreading propaganda is the most obvious use case, assuming
           | the resource requirement remains high. I don't think it's
           | far-fetched either. If these models become less resource-
           | hungry, then we're in for much worse.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | People talk about cryptography, which has fairly terrible
         | adoption rates outside of invisible systems like TLS, but in
         | practice the way humans authenticate sources is heuristic: do I
         | trust the person telling me this? Does it agree with things I
         | already know?
         | 
         | That is, you have a "filter bubble" which tells you that there
         | isn't going to be a Nigerian prince with some money waiting for
         | you (unknown sender, unlikely message). Reduced cost fakes
         | force people to make their filter bubble smaller by raising the
         | threshold for faking. More broadly, the question of "high trust
         | vs. low trust" society.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | "Hi mom, it's Chrissy, I am calling you from someone else's
         | phone, my phone got stolen. Do you have a pen handy, I'll wait.
         | Ok, here is my new number, take the old one off your contacts
         | right away, surely some scammer has it, and can you forward me
         | 1000 bucks or so for a new phone, I'll pay it back when I have
         | the new phone set up, here is my account number...."
         | 
         | When it's a text message it's likely going to ring a bell
         | somewhere (hopefully an alarm bell), if it is a voice message
         | and it sounds like the original many more people are going to
         | fall for it.
        
           | bmacho wrote:
           | "Hi Chrissy, can you touch your ID to the phone so I can know
           | that it is you" _call ended_
           | 
           | The government just should give you a card sized mini
           | computer with 2 large primes stored in it, and everyone is
           | perfectly fine. In fact, more secure, than the current
           | situation?
        
             | lm28469 wrote:
             | In the US where stealing a SSN is enough to impersonate
             | someone I doubt the government would provide anything to
             | mitigate these
        
               | galangalalgol wrote:
               | And telephone numbers can be spoofed for voice or text in
               | the US. Not sure when the problem will get big enough
               | that signed comms become normal. I guess imessage
               | probably is? But only between users of apple devices.
        
             | addandsubtract wrote:
             | "My ID got stolen with my phone..."
             | 
             | It'd be better to ask something personal. "What did we do
             | to Christmas/Birthday/[other event] last year? Who was with
             | us?"
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | Two large Prime minicomputers sounds pretty heavy for
             | people to carry around with them all day!
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Computer
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Computer#/media/File:Pr
             | i...
        
           | 4ggr0 wrote:
           | "Hey mom, could you tell me the name of your first pet, your
           | favorite song and your birthday? Also, please fill out the
           | captcha from this URL. xoxo chrissie"
           | 
           | EDIT: Also looking forward to AIs scamming each other, fully-
           | automated.
        
             | chirau wrote:
             | But AIs can't own crypto... or can they?
        
               | mikro2nd wrote:
               | What's to stop them? A wallet is just a keypair.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | I don't see what relevance that has other than making it
               | easier to scam people irreversably?
        
               | 4ggr0 wrote:
               | Maybe they can bootstrap their own crypto? Or just open
               | Monero wallets. If we're at the point where they can
               | imitate voices and human behaviour, they might even pass
               | KYC checks after stealing someones information.
               | 
               | As soon as AI gets out of hand and starts randomly
               | hacking things we're probably out of luck anyways.
               | 
               | "If the rise of an all-powerful artificial intelligence
               | is inevitable, well it stands to reason that when they
               | take power, our digital overlords will punish those of us
               | who did not help them get there. [...]" - Bertram
               | Gilfoyle
        
               | wolpoli wrote:
               | They just need to earn their own crypto somehow. The AI
               | could do then quite a bit even though they do not have
               | Personhood, which could include lobbying politicians for
               | Personhood.
        
           | aceazzameen wrote:
           | This and who knows what else as time goes on. It might be a
           | good idea to not talk on phones anymore unless you already
           | know the contact.
           | 
           | In this bleak scrape the bottom of the barrel world, I can't
           | help but think it's only a matter of time before customer
           | service departments start selling voice data to the highest
           | bidder. And to counter that there will be services where
           | everyone ends up using voice changers, except close personal
           | contacts. I want this fiction to stay fiction.
        
             | 1over137 wrote:
             | >It might be a good idea to not talk on phones anymore
             | unless you already know the contact.
             | 
             | As opposed to what? Writing is even easier to forge, no?
        
             | MonkeyMalarky wrote:
             | >It might be a good idea to not talk on phones anymore
             | unless you already know the contact.
             | 
             | As a millennial, I'm way ahead of you on that one. The
             | government and telecom companies just need to crack down on
             | number spoofing. Any day now..
        
           | mensetmanusman wrote:
           | Society will respond by having secret keywords that you know
           | from a young age in your family to verify or to point to an
           | emergency that is ongoing.
           | 
           | " Here's my new account number. It's really me. Slippers in
           | the toaster."
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | Oh, great! Now we have to come up with proper code words and
           | code books for everyday life! I', not worried so, some AI
           | solution will help us with that for sure.
        
             | bambax wrote:
             | You can still
             | 
             | 1. Ignore voice messages
             | 
             | 2. Ask pointed questions to any live caller, esp. one
             | calling from a new number and asking for money...
        
               | counttheforks wrote:
               | So now scammers will have to first scrape your & your
               | families social media, then run that through ChatGPT to
               | answer any questions.
        
               | nullsense wrote:
               | Let the games begin.
        
               | DonHopkins wrote:
               | The one earnest question that will ALWAYS make scammers
               | hang up immediately:
               | 
               | "In case we get cut off, what phone number can I call you
               | back on?"
               | 
               | If they actually give you a number instead of hanging up
               | (which has NEVER happened in the many times I've used
               | this line), just hang up immediately and call them back,
               | to see if they answer.
        
           | teekert wrote:
           | So, we need to work on this ringing bells. Sure some people
           | will fall for it initially, but then we adapt.
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | Scammers have been scamming since the beginning of society
        
           | sendfoods wrote:
           | My god...I haven't really thought about scamming at all, I
           | was "just" worried about manipulation of media and politics.
           | New nightmare unlocked.
        
             | hackerman123469 wrote:
             | "Okay, let me just video call you because I also need to
             | show you something" and then the scammer hung up and was to
             | never be seen again.
        
               | probably_wrong wrote:
               | FYI, there's the following trick I read here some time
               | ago:
               | 
               | The scammer starts a video call with the person they want
               | to impersonate and record it. When that person takes the
               | call, the scammer doesn't say anything. This creates a
               | 5-10 seconds video of the person looking at the camera
               | waiting for the scammer to say something, until they get
               | fed up and hung up.
               | 
               | The scammer then calls the victim. They offer a video
               | call as verification straight away, and they play that
               | short video.
        
               | Loughla wrote:
               | How is a 5-10 second video of someone either not saying
               | anything, or saying, "Hello, who is it?" over and over
               | convincing at all?
        
               | wccrawford wrote:
               | I imagine they say something like, "I couldn't see or
               | here you. Did you see me?" through the other channel, and
               | because modern tech messes up enough, it'll be believable
               | to a lot of people. Especially the most gullible.
        
               | citizenpaul wrote:
               | HN gets so caught up in logic. Has no one watched
               | interviews of scammed people? Huge numbers of them report
               | that they were suspicious it was a scam but they were so
               | worried for a loved one they sent the money anyway
               | because it was worth the risk to them just in case.
               | Anything that helps push scams in the even slightly
               | plailusible direction will make scams more successful.
        
             | pictureofabear wrote:
             | All of these advances in technology have made the internet
             | much less trustworthy. I wonder if we'll eventually hit a
             | threshold where nothing is done virtually anymore because
             | you can't trust it.
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | I think the work being done in the opposite direction is
               | going to make it so the Internet can be used for high
               | trust actions too.
               | 
               | E.g. in the EU we have ID cards and passports with
               | biometric information and NFC, and there was a beta of a
               | phone app by the French government where it would read
               | your photo from the ID card/passport, and compare with a
               | video selfie. That way you get fully local and secure
               | identification allowing you to do stuff online that would
               | otherwise require you to show up in person to a
               | government office.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | That 'video selfie' is untrustworthy, which was sort of
               | the point.
        
               | sofixa wrote:
               | It's taken by the app directly, so it's somewhat hard to
               | pass fake 3D video input to it.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | Scammers are well incentivized to find bypasses and
               | feeding an alternative video stream into an app on a
               | device that you control physically isn't all that hard
               | for a determined person. I can think of three ways to do
               | this right off the bat and if I think about it a little
               | longer I'll probably find some more. I sincerely hope
               | that that is not the last line of defense.
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | Only if hardware is completely locked down.
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | My grandmother was called by a scammer claiming they were me,
           | said they were arrested and needed bail money or some
           | nonsense. She knew it wasn't my voice, asked two questions
           | which were dodged then told them where to go and how to get
           | there. It left her very shaken and my mother had me call her
           | to assure her I was fine and as soon as she heard my voice
           | she bellowed "Now that's my grandsons voice!" With this tech
           | all they need is a few seconds of my voice.
           | 
           | With AI we have lost all privacy and identity. This makes
           | nonsense like novelty theory and timewave zero seem less
           | nonsensical. Lets hope we make it through the great filter.
        
             | nullsense wrote:
             | >Lets hope we make it through the great filter.
             | 
             | My thoughts on this are that oftentimes things at the
             | extreme ends of the distribution are usually in some way,
             | shape or form problematic. Compared to all other living
             | creatures we know of, humans are right at the extreme tail
             | end of the intelligence distribution, and the result is
             | somewhat pathological when compared to other creatures. I
             | think nothing that's north of a certain threshold required
             | to make advanced technology can make it through the great
             | filter without destroying itself in the process.
        
               | galangalalgol wrote:
               | My thoughts are that getting noticed by another culture
               | is the great filter, so cultures make it through
               | occasionally, but we will not notice them. "The benefits
               | of not being seen"
               | 
               | Of all my concerns for humanity, excessive intelligence
               | is not one of them...
               | 
               | Our earliest (and easiest to detect) transmissions should
               | already be far enough away to be far below ambient noise
               | I think/hope. So maybe we made it through unless someone
               | starts shouting. Own-goals are also certainly a thing,
               | but it would take a serious mistake to end all of us, or
               | even set us back that far technologically on a geologic
               | time scale.
        
               | nullsense wrote:
               | >Own-goals are also certainly a thing, but it would take
               | a serious mistake to end all of us, or even set us back
               | that far technologically on a geologic time scale.
               | 
               | I must be a pessimist in this regard. I don't necessarily
               | think it would take a serious mistake, rather just the
               | nature of complexity itself will likely become a factor
               | at some point and I can imagine certain scenarios playing
               | out based off that.
               | 
               | When you compare the length of time of humanity spent
               | pre-neolithic-revolution with the short ~14,000 odd years
               | since, I can't help but feel our current trajectory won't
               | see us reach hundreds of thousands more years into the
               | future without a serious backslide in that time.
               | 
               | Humanity is pretty darn resilient, but the last few years
               | have highlighted to me that modern day life is some weird
               | fantasy land we've created for ourselves that has an
               | expiry date at some point in the future.
        
         | dilawar wrote:
         | Recently in India, a politician deepfaked the voice to deliver
         | his speech in multiple languages [1]. Can't comment on the
         | quality of tech since i dont speak this language but it is
         | pretty alarming to me. 2% vote swings make a huge difference in
         | Indian politics since there are many regional parties. Almost
         | more than 2/3rd of Indian voters didn't vote for modi yet his
         | party is doing very well.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/18/21142782/india-
         | politician...
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | Interesting. Providing a translation is an accessibility
           | measure, but it seems that the "fake" here is matching his
           | lip movements to the translation. Almost not worthy of
           | calling it a fake since he (not somebody else) did say those
           | things (in a different language), and it's endorsed by him.
           | 
           | The unendorsed version is far more dangerous.
        
           | dharmach wrote:
           | >>Almost more than 2/3rd of Indian voters didn't vote for
           | modi yet his party is doing very well.
           | 
           | Do you understand what is first-past-the-post voting system?
        
           | mejutoco wrote:
           | The pope reads in phonetic alphabet to speak a big number of
           | languages and most people do not consider it cheating. I do
           | not se the problem.
        
           | thalassophobia wrote:
           | I think this is one of the cases where there is nothing wrong
           | with using deepfakes. The person mimicked gave explicit
           | consent and they did not do any harm with the tool. If
           | technology increases accessibility of true political choice
           | then it's good technology.
           | 
           | That said, I don't understand why the parent and the article
           | paint this as a bad thing.
        
             | jwestbury wrote:
             | When language is tightly coupled to cultural identity,
             | using this kind of fake is lying to voters, saying, "I'm
             | one of you."
             | 
             | It's a new use of technology to repeat an old lie. I think
             | it's a bad thing, but it's hardly the most dangerous and
             | novel application of this technology for evil.
        
               | IgorPartola wrote:
               | Had he used a translator, it would have been more obvious
               | but possibly had the same effect (if what he had to say
               | resonated with the voters). So what you are against is
               | the idea that it's not labeled as "virtual translator was
               | used to produce this speech"?
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | Certainly that's the impression I had from the comment -
               | it's a politician being dishonest, and an undemocratic
               | system which gives non-proportional power.
        
               | piaste wrote:
               | Given that the PR firm who made their video apparently
               | reached out to the press to tell the story, it seems that
               | he wasn't actually claiming or pretending to be a native
               | speaker (and anybody who did would be extremely easy to
               | uncover). Just using a glorified overdub service and
               | being quite upfront about it.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | When everyone know this is possible, we need better methods to
         | verify what is real. We'll handle it, people said the same
         | about photoshop.
        
           | _visgean wrote:
           | Photoshop isnt realtime. This will be.
        
           | swarnie wrote:
           | I suspect it is already widely known.
           | 
           | My employer is known for tracking a decade behind the curve
           | and we already have financial processes in place to prevent
           | this vector from being exploited. That leads me to believe
           | the majority must already have as well.
        
         | worldsavior wrote:
         | No because I know as technology advances, security advances.
        
       | stemlord wrote:
       | I remember Lyrebird did this back in 2017. They used to have a
       | free-to-use interface on their site to speak a phrase then listen
       | to a text-to-speech output of your voice. Assuming Microsoft
       | improved it somehow?
        
       | morrisjm wrote:
       | Open source tortoise-TTS has been able to do this for 6+ months
       | now, which is also based on the same theory as DALL-E. From
       | playing with tortoise a bit over the last couple of weeks it
       | seems like the issue is not so much accuracy anymore, rather how
       | GPU intensive it is to make a voice of any meaningful duration.
       | Tortoise is ~5 seconds on a $1000 GPU (P5000) to do one second of
       | spoken text. There's cloud options (collab, paperspace, runpod)
       | but still https://github.com/neonbjb/tortoise-tts
        
         | jordibc wrote:
         | I think you mean https://github.com/neonbjb/tortoise-tts
         | (missing last "s")
        
           | morrisjm wrote:
           | fixed thx
        
         | NayamAmarshe wrote:
         | Is the link wrong?
        
         | ShamelessC wrote:
         | Heh you might want to use an equivalent gaming GPU for the
         | price comparison. Surely a thousand dollars spent on an RTX
         | 4000 series card (Hopper) would outperform a P5000?
         | 
         | I agree though, Tortoise TTS did a lot of similar work IIRC by
         | a single person on their multi-GPU setup. Really impressive
         | effort. Did they get a citation? They deserve one.
         | 
         | edit: reading other comments it seems there is a misconception
         | that the model takes 3 seconds to run? That isn't the case - it
         | requires "just" 3 seconds of example audio to successfully
         | clone a voice (for some definition of success).
        
           | morrisjm wrote:
           | rtx4000 only has 8gig memory which means reducing the batch
           | size (much slowness) and/or how much text you can give it at
           | once (meaning you have to break up text chunks not at
           | sentence breaks)
           | 
           | rtx5000 maybe but not sure how much of a value improvement
           | there is
        
             | ShamelessC wrote:
             | What is this, chatGPT? RTX 4000 is a series of cards, some
             | of which have 24 GB of VRAM. There is no such thing as RTX
             | 5000 series yet.
        
               | morrisjm wrote:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nvidia_graphics_pro
               | ces...
        
               | dc443 wrote:
               | The commenter you're responding to is talking about
               | Lovelace architecture based GeForce RTX 40x0 products.
               | The Quadro line isn't even released yet on this
               | architecture. You are talking about the specific Quadro
               | RTX 4000 product, which is a TU104 (turing arch, 2 gens
               | behind, with 2560 processors and 8GB memory). The
               | commenter you're responding to is referring to something
               | like a GeForce RTX 4090 which sports an AD102 (lovelace
               | arch, with 16384 processors and 24GB memory).
               | 
               | You were merely an unfortunate casualty of Nvidia's
               | product marketing scheme (and a commenter's slightly
               | imprecise reference to it) here.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | I'm really skeptical about TTS. There's lots of theoretical and
       | academic and research lab stuff that supposedly is quantum leaps
       | forward in TTS. However, all the commercial offerings sound like
       | TTS and never match the breathless hype. Try them out and you can
       | tell within seconds it's a robot talking.
        
         | sschueller wrote:
         | I have to disagree.
         | 
         | The SBB (Swiss Rail) is now using a quite sophisticated TTS
         | system [1] that sounds very clean and has a Swiss German accent
         | in the high German its talking (Zurich accent based which is
         | what most of the complaints are about). The old system was
         | built using over 10k recording which was a enormous task
         | 
         | The system now is able to announce pretty much anything
         | including reasons for delay etc. and it does not sound like a
         | bunch of recordings attached to each other.
         | 
         | I am hoping it will be expanded eventually to switch accents
         | depending on the region just how it already switches to French
         | or Italian depending where you are.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/so-klingt-die-neue-stimme-
         | der-s...
        
           | 4ggr0 wrote:
           | > Zurich accent based which is what most of the complaints
           | are about
           | 
           | I've given up on this a long time ago. Ads are almost always
           | in a Zurich accent, except if the ad is for extremely
           | regional stuff like secret cheese recipes or tourist ads for
           | Graubunden.
           | 
           | Zurich is the tech hub of Switzerland and the accent seems to
           | be the default. Then again, who in their right mind would
           | want an AI to talk with an accent from Thurgau (/s)
        
             | sschueller wrote:
             | Well we do have Tschugger[1] which is definitely not Zurich
             | Swiss German...
             | 
             | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1AwYqquL7k
        
               | 4ggr0 wrote:
               | True, and thanks for reminding me! I've meant to watch it
               | for some time now and heard that the second season was
               | out.
               | 
               | Have you watched it/did you like it?
        
               | sschueller wrote:
               | I watched it, it was ok. I did like the first season
               | better.
        
               | 4ggr0 wrote:
               | Might give it a shot then!
        
           | ale42 wrote:
           | Except that... while the German-speaking one sounds
           | relatively well, I am definitely unhappy with the new system
           | in French. It sounds more unnatural (and harder to understand
           | in certain cases) than the old system. Maybe it's just a lack
           | of tuning of the French version vs. the German one, but
           | still...
        
             | sschueller wrote:
             | I agree, I hope the fix that soon. I think the product they
             | are using is from Germany which may explain the quality
             | difference.
        
         | rippercushions wrote:
         | Except when you're talking over a phone call that sounds like
         | two tin cans connected with a string even on a good day.
         | 
         | I'm regularly astonished at how _bad_ international calls in
         | particular have become, and you 're regularly subjected to
         | these even domestically, since so many call centers are in the
         | Philippines or India these days. And this despite bandwidth
         | being cheaper than ever.
        
           | TeMPOraL wrote:
           | Unfortunately, all the bandwidth in the world can't
           | compensate for latency, and the loss of quality in ADC, DAC
           | and compression steps as currently implemented.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | It's _all_ in the compression. That 's why VOIP systems
             | sound much better. Lots of telco systems still use AMR with
             | a very low bitrate.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | I can't think of a single VOIP system that sounded
               | _good_. Of the ones I use regularly, like Messenger,
               | Teams and Skype, they rarely if ever sound better than
               | just making a regular phone call with the same device.
        
             | adql wrote:
             | Good enough ADC/DACs are so cheap and plentiful I don't
             | even know why you're even mentioning them in same sentence
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | Yes, this is the CEO and I do need you to wire that money. C'mon
       | Frank (from accounting), you need to act more promptly on these
       | urgent requests
        
       | fumblebee wrote:
       | New scam incoming...
       | 
       | > Scammers get hold of someone's voice which is synthesised in
       | ~real-time whilst they're on the phone with that person's mother,
       | asking them to transfer them some emergency funds to a new bank
       | account.
       | 
       | We won't be able to trust digital sound, digital image, digital
       | text, and soon digital video. We need proof of authenticity /
       | proof of authorship / proof of humanity!
        
         | rco8786 wrote:
         | > proof of humanity
         | 
         | This resonated with me when I read it. Seems clear where AI is
         | going, so it seems clear that we need some sort of
         | "authentication" that can reliably differentiate a real human
         | from an AI one.
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | I'm excited for when they can duplicate patterns and mannerisms,
       | especially if in a different voice.
        
       | fdalvi wrote:
       | Previous discussion here:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34270311
        
       | sjellen wrote:
       | I know of a bunch of audiobooks that I'd rather listen to the
       | author than listen to the current person narrating or in other
       | cases I'd rather hear the person the book is about instead of the
       | author.
        
       | iso1631 wrote:
       | Good News Everyone, I'm a Horse's Butt
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1D9WEL7PKQ
        
       | talhof8 wrote:
       | Really scary to be honest...
       | 
       | Making things much easier for scammers. Voice phishing and social
       | engineering is now easier than ever.
        
         | lannisterstark wrote:
         | or...get this
         | 
         | this will enhance accessibility to a vast number of people with
         | disabilities. Also imagine reading your books/articles in voice
         | of your favorite narrator.
         | 
         | A normal person will have to work really hard to do a 1:1 real
         | time voice obfuscation with the processing it'd take.
         | 
         | ----
         | 
         | Why are you lot always doom and gloom and small-minded, is
         | beyond me.
        
           | tropicalbeach wrote:
           | Because you're not thinking 10 years out. At a certain point
           | you will be able to copy any voice and any video of a person
           | in realtime. It will be as simple as downloading an app. When
           | AI has scanned your whole life's details and it can be found
           | by anyone there will be no privacy left. Nothing will be
           | trusted anymore.
        
           | talhof8 wrote:
           | It's not about being doom and gloom. It's the opposite of
           | being small-minded.
           | 
           | I like all of the above use cases you suggested, I like
           | science advancements. I'm sure this will help plenty.
           | 
           | But, at the same time, we should be really careful and aware
           | of what we're creating.
        
       | weinzierl wrote:
       | I had planned to play around with TorToiSe[1] next weekend and
       | already watched some videos. There it looks like all you have to
       | do, is to offer you own voice samples to the system and no
       | separate training seems to be required. TorToiSe is slow to
       | synthesize, so it doesn't beat the 3 seconds but can anyone
       | confirm that these models really don't need an extra training
       | phase to clone a voice?
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/neonbjb/tortoise-tts
        
         | oslem wrote:
         | That's correct. However, the 3 seconds refers to the minimum
         | amount of audio required for the reference audio, not how long
         | it takes the mode to synthesize.
        
         | paulluuk wrote:
         | I've been voice-cloning using tortoise-tts and I'm very happy
         | with the results, but it is indeed very slow. It's also free
         | and open-source though.
        
         | reubenmorais wrote:
         | Correct, that's what zero-shot means, no training steps.
        
       | btseytlin wrote:
       | I would love to hear David Attenborough's voice training VALL-E
       | so that we can forever narrate "planet earth" like tv shows with
       | his voice.
        
       | Pxtl wrote:
       | One more step deeper into the post-truth era.
        
       | Kuinox wrote:
       | The generated voice has the same creepiness fake AI voice has in
       | movies. It also has the same monotone tone that there is in some
       | dystopian movies (For some reason it make me remember of
       | Bladerunner, but I don't remember a narrator voice).
        
       | r_hoods_ghost wrote:
       | A relative of mine recently died from bulbar ALS. By the time she
       | had the diagnosis her voice had already changed and weakened
       | significantly so she couldn't get a decent recording to use with
       | a text to speech synthesizer. Something like this could
       | potentially help people like her or those who lose their voices
       | in traumatic accidents. Even if you do have the time to do it,
       | training a current TTS engine in your voice takes a significant
       | amount of time and the results are often poor.
        
         | dividedbyzero wrote:
         | > Even if you do have the time to do it, training a current TTS
         | engine in your voice takes a significant amount of time and the
         | results are often poor.
         | 
         | I wonder what sort of recordings and other data you'd need to
         | get this right assuming what TTS might look like in a few
         | years' time
        
         | Mordisquitos wrote:
         | Interestingly, the prime example of how much a person's
         | attachment to their voice is part of their own personal
         | identity also comes from ALS... but ironically in the opposite
         | direction. I'm talking of course about Stephen Hawking, who
         | famously rejected upgrading his voice synthesiser when
         | technology improved [0]:                   Hawking is very
         | attached to his voice: in 1988, when Speech Plus gave him the
         | new synthesizer, the voice was different so he asked them to
         | replace it with the original. His voice had been created in the
         | early '80s by MIT engineer Dennis Klatt, a pioneer of text-to-
         | speech algorithms. He invented the DECtalk, one of the first
         | devices to translate text into speech. He initially made three
         | voices, from recordings of his wife, daughter and himself. The
         | female's voice was called "Beautiful Betty", the child's "Kit
         | the Kid", and the male voice, based on his own, "Perfect Paul."
         | "Perfect Paul" is Hawking's voice.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.wired.com/2015/01/intel-gave-stephen-hawking-
         | voi...
        
           | IanCal wrote:
           | I disagree that's in the opposite direction. Hawking didn't
           | want to change his voice - he'd had this for years at that
           | point, and the option was also to just change to a different
           | arbitrary voice rather than restoring what he had before.
           | 
           | Something like this could let someone keep their "original"
           | voice. Hawking may have preferred to have something that
           | sounded like his voice before he lost it than a completely
           | new voice.
        
         | tgraham wrote:
         | 100%. The tech my father tried to use in the last year of his
         | MND was so poor (effort to train it, reality of what it
         | delivered- jilted voice).
         | 
         | The impact on his quality of life - imagine not being able to
         | communicate at all - would have been massive were it better.
        
           | voakbasda wrote:
           | This makes me wonder whether we could create a standard
           | monologue that someone could record, which provides a
           | complete set of training data for that individual. Something
           | about a quick brown fox and a lazy dog would be apropos here,
           | but I suspect the length would be more Shakespearian than
           | that simple typographic clever sentence.
           | 
           | I expect it will be a while until we can fully utilize that
           | data, but I have to imagine that something could be done
           | today to preserve my voice (while I am still in my prime).
           | Effectively, this would be a sort of vocal cryogenics,
           | betting that we can do something today that will allow us to
           | take advantage of future technology.
        
             | r_hoods_ghost wrote:
             | This is basically what you do currently for a TTS engine if
             | you have ALS or similar. The search term you want is "voice
             | banking". You are given a long list of words and sentences,
             | often complex, to read out that have all the different
             | sounds and then these are re combined by the software. The
             | problem is that by the time you know you need this, you
             | often already have speech problems and so making clear
             | sounds is difficult. Also if you're like my relative who
             | was trilingual you would need to do it in all three
             | languages using the current system. She got a half way
             | decent voice bank in her native tongue, but it was still
             | noticeably slurred. She didn't even attempt it in her
             | second and third tongues.
        
       | _greim_ wrote:
       | There's plenty to be afraid of, but legit applications as well,
       | for example automated announcements and voice menus where you
       | can't pre-record every possible combination of things to be said.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | alanwreath wrote:
       | anyone know what's up with the sudden uptick in AI assisted
       | everything?                 - ChatGPT       - DALL-E       -
       | VALL-E       - Stable Diffusion
       | 
       | maybe it's just a reflection of my interest being peaked with AI
       | junk and google ads -- but I feel like I'm seeing it more and
       | more even in HN.
        
         | gl-prod wrote:
         | It's the new hot topic?
        
         | jddj wrote:
         | Breakthrough tech doing breakthrough tech things
        
         | college_physics wrote:
         | The cynical view would be that in the current tech environment
         | and generalized risk aversion rushing to demonstrate tangible
         | use cases for AI will help justify a decade of out-of-control
         | hype and investment, support exits, new funding runds etc.
         | 
         | Underneath all the commercial interest some specialists
         | inevitably must keep adding to the knowledge base /
         | capabilities but good luck finding any objective account of
         | that process.
        
         | Thorentis wrote:
         | One of the perks of crypto losing value. GPUs finally being
         | used for breakthrough research, rather than pyramid schemes.
        
           | kybernetyk wrote:
           | Crypto has been running on ASICs for years. The "evil crypto
           | miners make your GPUs so expensive" psyop is a NVIDIA
           | campaign to rise GPU prices.
        
             | DonHopkins wrote:
             | True, but that doesn't mean that crypto miners aren't still
             | evil.
        
           | nindalf wrote:
           | This claim feels truthy, but is it true? Most of the big
           | models were being trained on specialised hardware like tensor
           | chips right?
           | 
           | And the biggest drop isn't because crypto is worth less, it's
           | because Ethereum doesn't use proof of work since November
           | (Bitcoin hasn't used GPUs for years). The explosion in novel
           | AI models we saw last year predates this change.
        
             | bfgoodrich wrote:
             | [dead]
        
             | lajamerr wrote:
             | Most big AI is trained on Nvidia GPUs but usually not the
             | standard consumer ones found in the GeForce line-up.
             | Instead it's usually their data centre GPUs like the
             | current A100 or soon to be H100 that's just hitting the
             | market.
             | 
             | Google does have their TPUs(Tensor Processing Units),
             | however it is not cost efficient budget wise, so unless you
             | have some kind of deal with Google or compute credits it
             | doesn't make sense. They have pods upon pods of TPU
             | clusters though so the main selling point of TPU training
             | is that you can get your training done really fast with
             | just the ease of scaling your workload to more TPUs.
             | 
             | So if you needed a big model like GPT-3 trained in a single
             | day, you could spend an ungodly amounts of money and get it
             | done with Google TPUs. Otherwise if you can wait weeks or
             | months you can go with the standard Nvidia data centre
             | solution and it'd be cheaper at the end by a significant
             | margin.
        
           | 2342346666 wrote:
           | [dead]
        
         | pifm_guy wrote:
         | There have been some pretty big advances in the last few months
         | in machine learning.
        
         | QuesnayJr wrote:
         | Imagine Hacker News existed when Netscape Navigator was
         | released. (Maybe it was a Usenet discussion board or
         | something.) Suddenly everyone would be talking about the World
         | Wide Web.
         | 
         | At the moment, ChatGPT and Stable Diffusion look like the same
         | order of magnitude of advance.
        
         | BatteryMountain wrote:
         | And Open AI's Whisper, which for me is the cherry on top!
        
           | nprateem wrote:
           | Jesus it can even understand Scottish. I need this app!
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | Obligatory Burnistoun reference:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqAu-DDlINs
             | 
             | But I'd be interested to see what its reliability is like
             | on various types of Scottish accent.
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | I tried Whisper on an admittedly very challenging task (live
           | translate Albanian to English subtitles), and it failed
           | miserably. Went back and saw it had a 44% error rate for that
           | language.
           | 
           | Might give it another go on an easier task.
        
             | lajamerr wrote:
             | Even though Whisper advertises the translation part of it.
             | I honestly wouldn't say it's a first class feature at least
             | part of the Whisper model itself.
             | 
             | The only thing I'd use Whisper for is transcription part of
             | it. Then use ChatGPT for the translation.
        
         | wcoenen wrote:
         | The paper about the transformer architecture was published in
         | 2017 [1]. My understanding is that it took a few years, but we
         | are now seeing the results of that breakthrough.
         | 
         | [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/1706.03762
        
         | webreac wrote:
         | In 1993, it was said that the game of Go would be the
         | drosophila fly of artificial intelligence. Alphago (then
         | AlphaGo Zero) has succeeded in 2016, 2017. The glass ceiling
         | has been broken. We are witnessing the birth of a new world
         | where artificial intelligence will be more and more present in
         | everyday life. I do not see any limit.
        
           | nullsense wrote:
           | > I do not see any limit.
           | 
           | Hmmm, now I'm wondering if you're actually an advanced AI
           | that has already simulated what's going to happen.
        
       | dubcanada wrote:
       | I listened to the 3 samples, and I must say some of it is quite
       | close and some of it is completely wrong with how I would expect
       | that person to sound saying those words.
       | 
       | Like the first one "just his scribbles that charmed me" sounds so
       | weird compared to how the sample sounds.
       | 
       | Second one, sounds very close but again "just his scribbles that
       | charmed me" sounds off and wrong. His "scrouples? that charmed
       | me".
       | 
       | Third one as well, it's very up and down (not sure the correct
       | science words for that type of speaking), "Dynamo and lamp....
       | Edison realized". The second one is completely flat and seems
       | computer generated.
       | 
       | Overall these don't seem very good to me at least. It's clearly
       | not to the level of some other AI coming out where it is very
       | difficult to determine the human part, I could easily pick up the
       | human and generated version from these samples.
        
         | wmwmwm wrote:
         | I think it is actually meant to be "scruples" - so it sounds
         | pretty accurate to me:
         | 
         | https://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/James/Turn_Screw.pdf (see p4)
        
         | icepat wrote:
         | Yes, there's definitely an uncanny valley effect on these
         | voices. There's something subtly not right about them, and I
         | suspect if you were to hold a conversation with one, you'd
         | catch on that something was wrong.
         | 
         | The uncanny valley makes it more spooky to me. Like a
         | reanimation sort of thing.
        
       | garyclarke27 wrote:
       | HSBC in the UK used to advertise Telephone banking with security
       | just based on speech recognition. I wonder whether systems like
       | that could be fooled by this?
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | My employer had a project to look at phone unlocking with voice
         | authentication. While we had a number of interesting techniques
         | for anti-faking, the problem was the base error rate was about
         | 1/10,000 even without adversarial considerations.
        
         | robjan wrote:
         | HSBC Hong Kong is actively promoting this. Just say "I will
         | need your help with something" and you're in.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | Biometric identification via voice is mostly hokum.
         | 
         | My education is in biometrics and our undergraduate seminar
         | group had a student and his supervisor with essentially
         | identical voices.
         | 
         | But that's just anecdata - the human voice doesn't carry a lot
         | of unique information and on top of that it _changes_ over
         | time.
         | 
         | In biometric identification the iris is king. 3D face scans are
         | a distant second, fingerprints on the border of usefulness and
         | the rest like gait, voice, keystrokes etc. get rediscovered
         | every decade or so just to, again, not yield results.
        
       | MollyRealized wrote:
       | Given its name, I was quite surprised not to hear it sounding
       | like this: https://youtu.be/R5Q1yVLSR3I?t=17
        
       | gatane wrote:
       | Time to use the Snake voice more often:
       | 
       | "Text to speech? Anyone voice? What?"
        
         | gatane wrote:
         | It only works in English(?)
        
       | jxramos wrote:
       | For another angle what exactly is the source for our distinct
       | voices to begin with? Are everybody's vocal chords distinct in
       | some way like a fingerprint or something or is it mostly governed
       | by our baseline neural control considering how people can
       | frequently impersonate others ala comedians to some degree of
       | accuracy where it's funny.
        
         | nullsense wrote:
         | Considering a given person's voice would sound different if
         | they were brought up speaking a different language, yet all the
         | speakers of that language have distinct voices, I'd say it's a
         | bit of column A and a bit of column B.
        
           | jxramos wrote:
           | that's a good point too, accents can creep over from first
           | learned languages of a different tongue.
        
       | boredumb wrote:
       | Exciting to see ML develop in ways that will enhance
       | accessibility for people. I imagine being able to train a screen
       | reader with your own voice (or voice of your choosing) would be a
       | huge plus for vision impaired folks.
        
       | surume wrote:
       | Me to my partner: "Didn't you say you were going to do the
       | dishes?" Partner: "I don't remember saying that" Me: "Here, I
       | have a recording of you saying it..."
        
         | nullsense wrote:
         | Yikes.
         | 
         | I think a remake of the movie "Gas Light" using these kinds of
         | AI technologies needs to happen as a sort of social commentary
         | on where this is going.
        
       | nugget wrote:
       | I'm curious how all these advancements in AI will impact KYC and
       | identity authentication. It's already easy to scrape OSINT to
       | pull the answers needed for most people's knowledge based
       | authentication sequences. Will we hit the point where fake
       | passports, IDs, and biometrics (including voice prints here) can
       | be replicated undetectably? If so, what will become the standard
       | for identity authentication?
        
         | pifm_guy wrote:
         | KYC isn't about stopping bad guys doing stuff. It's about
         | stopping the government from shutting you down.
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | I'm assuming it'll come down to two things: more reliance on
         | in-person checks and eventually pushing more towards digital
         | signatures but the latter is complicated in the U.S. by
         | politics. It wouldn't be insurmountable to deploy national ID
         | cards like Estonia from a technical perspective but we have a
         | non-trivial number of people who object to that on religious
         | grounds so I'd expect we'll have some kind of private sector
         | multiple standards mess for years.
        
         | kybernetyk wrote:
         | Maybe governments finally start implementing public-key
         | cryptography with their chip-enabled IDs and passports?
        
       | ipsin wrote:
       | Are these text-to-speech models manually controllable in terms of
       | prosody, etc., or is it all transformer-based text-to-audio?
       | 
       | I've followed some of the research on prosody transfer, etc., but
       | it still seems bad in the TTS systems I've heard.
        
       | choeger wrote:
       | Is it just me or is "AI" focused very much on fooling human
       | perception, lately? AFAIK, we have no deterministic algorithm
       | that can tell us whether synthetic language sounds "human", have
       | we? So essentially, that model has been trained to fool human
       | perception. Similarly, ChatGPT is not trained to output sensible
       | and meaningful statements but rather statements that _appear_ to
       | be to a human reader.
       | 
       | Would not not be time to measure a model's success on the actual
       | job? Like feeding a simulator with actual data from real-world
       | traffic scenarios and running Tesla's, or any other company's,
       | autopilot in it?
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | > So essentially, that model has been trained to fool human
         | perception.
         | 
         | Is there any other sensible goal function for a text to speech
         | model?
         | 
         | > Similarly, ChatGPT is not trained to output sensible and
         | meaningful statements but rather statements that appear to be
         | to a human reader.
         | 
         | Almost certainly not true. If they could they would make it
         | output sensible and meaningful statements all the time.
         | 
         | > Like feeding a simulator with actual data from real-world
         | traffic scenarios and running Tesla's, or any other company's,
         | autopilot in it?
         | 
         | Do you seriously think that self driving car companies are not
         | doing this already?
        
           | tgv wrote:
           | > Is there any other sensible goal function for a text to
           | speech model?
           | 
           | Yes: to transfer information aurally. And the models are
           | there, and have been for quite some time. They can simply
           | stop with the trying-to-fool part.
        
             | adql wrote:
             | The "fooling here" is "people wanting TTS to sound human".
             | And obvious step for that is making the AI infer human
             | voice traits from existing humans
        
               | tgv wrote:
               | It doesn't have to sound human. Fluent, ok, but human?
               | 
               | But no matter what, it's unnecessary to make a tool that
               | can copy anyone's voice. That just lowers the threshold
               | for abuse, while not adding almost nothing of value.
        
               | MrOwnPut wrote:
               | It doesn't have to, and you can use ones that don't, they
               | get the info across mostly. But it is jarring if it
               | doesn't sound human, it's a speech impediment, or as a
               | more generous take, an accent.
               | 
               | The correct inflections, pauses, annunciations, etc. are
               | all important to humans, especially so for audio books
               | and similar things that need to immerse.
               | 
               | Otherwise you have to strain to listen, similar to
               | listening to someone with a heavy accent.
        
               | tgv wrote:
               | > especially so for audio books
               | 
               | Perhaps real human readers can help?
               | 
               | > The correct inflections, pauses
               | 
               | Because a model that can imitate a voice is still not
               | capable of that. There's no need to have model that can
               | do that. A robotic accent is best. Or perhaps you like to
               | see your politicians make all kind of bizarre statements
               | on youtube.
        
               | MrOwnPut wrote:
               | > Perhaps real human readers can help?
               | 
               | Certainly, and they do, but computers can annotate _much_
               | faster, without attrition, and cost _much_ less.
               | 
               | Generally you'll have human recordings for what you can,
               | and TTS for anything missing.
               | 
               | There are a _lot_ of books, live streams, podcasts,
               | articles, etc. in the world.
               | 
               | > There's no need to have model that can do that.
               | 
               | I wouldn't say there's no need, or otherwise we wouldn't
               | talk that way. It's a human element and the generated
               | speech is for human ears.
               | 
               | > A robotic accent is best.
               | 
               | Best is subjective because that's a human preference.
               | That being said, I'd say your preference is a far
               | outlier.
               | 
               | Most people's "best" would be what they are used to
               | hearing; the speech of native speakers.
        
               | moyix wrote:
               | Listening to something that sounds non-human for a long
               | period of time is fairly unpleasant; imagine trying to
               | listen to an audiobook or podcast, or dialogue in an
               | animated movie, when the voices are all obviously non-
               | human/robotic. So TTS wouldn't be usable for a lot of
               | cases where we might want it.
               | 
               | And with the way the models work, once you have a model
               | that can sound human, it is unfortunately very easy for
               | it to sound like any individual human as well.
        
         | yoavm wrote:
         | Perhaps it's us that are obsessed about perception rather than
         | substance though? I wonder if it's different from asking a
         | child to memorize for an exam, or investing time in a stylish
         | presentation, etc.
         | 
         | Seems like we're very often interested in something that looks
         | like the job rather than the job itself - maybe because it's
         | more easily measurable? We then took this skewed ambition and
         | developed AI after it.
        
         | isthisthingon99 wrote:
         | AI is focused on creating electronic humans that are never
         | tired and can do low skill work with some high level
         | directions. It seems like we will achieve this goal, but the
         | companies will own the electronic humans.
        
       | MarcScott wrote:
       | This would have made Sneakers a much more boring movie.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Recent and related:
       | 
       |  _VALL-E: Neural codec language models are zero-shot text to
       | speech synthesizers_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34270311 - Jan 2023 (136
       | comments)
        
       | naillo wrote:
       | This should probably link straight to page of the paper
       | https://valle-demo.github.io/
        
       | jimmyjazz14 wrote:
       | "Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they
       | could, they didn't stop to think if they should."
        
       | waynenilsen wrote:
       | Perhaps digital signatures will help with authenticity issues. It
       | may become necessary. Transcoding presents an issue I wonder how
       | it may be solved
        
       | jesuspiece wrote:
       | Thanks MSFT for making my job of phishing people easier :)
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | Yes, this is Mike Smith's father Steve, my son won't be attending
       | school the rest of this week. We're flying back east to visit our
       | relatives.
        
       | cactusplant7374 wrote:
       | Someone will eventually release an open source model, right?
        
         | alexb_ wrote:
         | Hope that 15.ai finishes soon.
        
       | jmartrican wrote:
       | So if you get a call from a number you do not know, maybe we
       | should NOT talk and give them our voice which they will record
       | and use to make new speech to scam our loved ones.
        
         | jmartrican wrote:
         | Will probably have to give my mom a secret word that only I
         | know that I need to say to her so she knows its me and not a
         | scammer using my voice.
        
           | theptip wrote:
           | It's not a bad idea, but you can already do this kind of
           | check with shared knowledge. "Where did we go for vacation
           | when I was a kid?", "where did we eat for dinner last time we
           | saw each other" Etc.
        
       | r-zip wrote:
       | Serious question: do the people who work on this topic think
       | they're doing a good thing?
        
       | gdubs wrote:
       | "My voice is my passport."
        
       | eloff wrote:
       | So is there anywhere you can play with this model yet?
        
       | reverseblade2 wrote:
       | - Hey Janelle, what's wrong with wolfie? I can hear him barking.
       | Is everything okay?
       | 
       | - Wolfie is fine dear. Wolfie's just fine. Where are you?
        
         | dokem wrote:
         | - Your parents are dead.
         | 
         | That deadpan delivery always makes me laugh.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Octabrain wrote:
         | https://youtu.be/MT_u9Rurrqg
         | 
         | I felt obligated to find and post the link to the scene. What a
         | great movie.
        
           | O__________O wrote:
           | Warning: Might be worth warning people there's an ultra
           | violent cut included in the clip. Anyone not interested in
           | seeing the violence, but watching the relevant dialogue can
           | view it here:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34309876
        
         | ridgered4 wrote:
         | An interesting level of this scene is that it implies neither
         | terminator is able to identify a fabricated voice even though
         | they have a full understanding of each other's design. The
         | T-1000 cannot tell it is talking to a T-800 until it realized
         | it has been tricked and the T-800 cannot tell it is talking to
         | a T-1000 until it tricks the other machine.
         | 
         | Of course, it happens over a pay phone so perhaps with the full
         | vocal range in person it would have been different.
        
           | bryanrasmussen wrote:
           | >so perhaps with the full vocal range in person it would have
           | been different.
           | 
           | I think there might have been other giveaways in person where
           | the T-800 is concerned.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | kernal wrote:
           | >An interesting level of this scene is that it implies
           | neither terminator is able to identify a fabricated voice
           | even though they have a full understanding of each other's
           | design. The T-1000 cannot tell it is talking to a T-800 until
           | it realized it has been tricked and the T-800 cannot tell it
           | is talking to a T-1000 until it tricks the other machine.
           | 
           | What made it even more amazing was that the T-800 ran on a
           | 6502 processor.
        
           | actionfromafar wrote:
           | That movie holds up so incredibly well.
        
             | marpstar wrote:
             | Best action movie of all time. Always has been.
        
               | mavhc wrote:
               | It wasn't in 1990
        
               | kbrannigan wrote:
               | The best action movie in my mind is: Terminator 2. Hands
               | down. It's like an archetypal movie
        
               | stinos wrote:
               | I'd never use extremes like 'best' or 'worst' to describe
               | any type of creative piece, but I have to say having
               | recently watched the first 2 movies again for the first
               | time in like 20 years: yeah there is something about
               | these movies (and some others from that era) which I'm
               | really missing in releases of the past decade. Only
               | problem being: I don't know if it's merely some
               | nostaligic bias or if they are really just better
               | overall.
        
               | codeulike wrote:
               | I think the guy that made them has some new movie out or
               | something
        
               | flippinburgers wrote:
               | Count me in in saying that there is something about these
               | older movies that eclipses almost all "entertainment"
               | these days. It is mostly the storytelling ranging from
               | "the message" to the dialogue. None of it resonates with
               | me.
        
               | bornfreddy wrote:
               | For me Pixar movies are great in this respect.
               | Storytelling is there front and center. There is a book
               | (Creativity Inc iirc?) that talks about Pixar history and
               | their process, pretty incredible how many hits they were
               | able to produce during their era and how consistent they
               | were. Not sure if they produced anything lately though?
        
               | ryanianian wrote:
               | > Not sure if they produced anything lately though?
               | 
               | Recently-ish: Coco, Soul, and Inside Out are among my
               | favorite Pixar movies and all compete with the golden-era
               | Pixar classics in terms of being memorable and story-
               | first.
               | 
               | The Disney acquisition seems to have crushed some Pixar
               | magic. You can no longer assume every Pixar movie to be
               | gold, but they can still turn out top-quality content.
        
               | iamacyborg wrote:
               | How do you feel about more modern movies like Sicario?
               | That one has both a very strong message, fantastic
               | dialogue and beautiful camera work, IMO.
        
               | jonhohle wrote:
               | That's true of many Denis Villeneuve movies, though.
               | There are always going to be directors that produce
               | quality, regardless of current trends, however, these are
               | the exception (and unfortunately, not always reliably
               | consistent).
        
               | iamacyborg wrote:
               | Sure, but the movies they're being compared to were also
               | the exceptions of their day. We remember them precisely
               | because they were good, but tons of dross was also being
               | released at the same time.
               | 
               | The market economics were also vastly different at the
               | time, streaming really has changed the industry, and the
               | quality of tv shows has improved dramatically.
        
               | jonhohle wrote:
               | My point was you chose a movie from a director known for
               | stunning movies. That has nothing to do with the time
               | period the movie was made. Stanley Kubrick, Terry
               | Gilliam, Darren Aranofsky, and many others consistently
               | make movies that would be considered beautiful regardless
               | of when they were released.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | _puk wrote:
               | Having just re watched Gremlins with teenage children
               | (for their first time), there is definitely something
               | about that era of movies.
               | 
               | Dodgy animatronics were first scoffed at, and then
               | forgotten pretty quickly as everyone just got into the
               | pure enjoyment of that movie.
               | 
               | This is a nigh on 40 year old film, with a lot of target
               | references, yet it still hits the mark..
               | 
               | That said, rewatched transformers too, purely for the joy
               | of the initial transformation (childhood toys coming to
               | life..), and thoroughly enjoyed it (though it's already
               | feeling a bit dated).
        
               | cptskippy wrote:
               | > That said, rewatched transformers too, purely for the
               | joy of the initial transformation
               | 
               | Aside from the voice acting, there's nothing redeeming
               | about those movies and felt like someone just pissed on
               | my childhood. Any aspect of the cartoons or toys that
               | inspired joy and wonder was lost in translation.
               | 
               | The initial transformations were spoiled by trailers and
               | also just disappointing in general. The transformations
               | are largely incomprehensible and they might as well have
               | used Star Trek transporter FX or a flash of light to
               | transform them.
        
               | spaceman_2020 wrote:
               | I still catch Back to the Future every time its on TV.
               | 
               | That movie is so well-paced even by modern standards.
        
               | johncalvinyoung wrote:
               | IIRC, I remember from discussions with other
               | scriptwriters that BTF was rejected SO many times (and he
               | redrafted it each time, afterwards) that the version that
               | got filmed was like v12 of the story. Very, very tight
               | and plotted.
        
               | williamcotton wrote:
               | "Back to the Future is a perfect movie!"
               | 
               | - Quentin Tarantino
        
               | mrexroad wrote:
               | I just watched Gremlins with my kids during the holidays.
               | My older teen had to look away and hated it (they can't
               | do horror films), my other teen was abhorred by all the
               | death, and my pre-teen had the full range of emotions
               | from cracking up often and jumping at the surprises.
               | 
               | With that said, I was surprised to see how decisive,
               | resourceful, and adaptable the mother was. Hears a noise
               | in the attic, grabs a knife. Gets attacked, puts creature
               | in nearest blender/microwave and hits switch. Hears
               | another noise, grabs _two_ knives because one wasn't
               | enough last time.
        
               | kranke155 wrote:
               | Terminator 2 is widely recognised as an amazing piece of
               | filmmaking, film scholars included.
               | 
               | I believe Paul Thomas Anderson partially left film school
               | because his professor was shitting on the movie. And he
               | was damn right.
        
               | lofaszvanitt wrote:
               | This movie is about this phenomena :D.
               | 
               | https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364955/
        
               | spaceman_2020 wrote:
               | Most of Cameron's older movies hold up very well. Aliens
               | is still fun, tense, and well-paced. Even True Lies is
               | still fun.
               | 
               | I think Cameron's secret weapon is the camerawork and
               | editing. He really lets the camera breathe and has an
               | incredible sense of "beats" for every cut.
        
               | grogenaut wrote:
               | Had my daughter watch aliens for Halloween cause she was
               | suggesting shit scary movies like the witch. She's 22.
               | Gosh is that movie excellent. The best was the 3 endings
               | where she relaxed and I was like excellent. Esp the
               | spaceship fight. You thought this was over, no the most
               | tense parts of the movie are yet to come.
        
               | spaceman_2020 wrote:
               | And it's not just "badass - it has a solid emotional core
               | that drives the character.
               | 
               | The director's cut makes it even more clear - Ripley lost
               | her baby while she was in cryosleep, which gives her
               | character's desperation to save Newt even more urgency.
        
               | jonhohle wrote:
               | _ALL_ of his 80s and 90s movies hold up. He was a master
               | storyteller that understood the tools, the craft, how to
               | get the best out of the people working for him, and most
               | importantly the story and characters.
               | 
               | For whatever reason, he through out story and pushing
               | people to their limits for technology and spectacle. It
               | makes me sad to think that the last movies we'll see from
               | Jim Cameron are likely all in the Avatar universe,
               | written by committee and acted in front of green screens.
        
               | spaceman_2020 wrote:
               | While I share that sentiment, I also appreciate that his
               | current movies are at least his singular vision. Not a
               | lot of original IP currently where the director gets
               | control over the end product.
        
               | benreesman wrote:
               | Obviously it's all a matter of taste but there are people
               | (myself included) that think practical effects
               | _complemented_ with CGI is still the right way to do
               | action.
               | 
               | Top Gun Maverick would be a data point that a lot of
               | people agree. No matter how good the CGI, actors con a
               | sound stage in front of a green screen just behave
               | differently than actors or stunt people actually doing
               | action stuff.
        
               | grogenaut wrote:
               | Reminded of the star trek gif where they take out the
               | camera motion and it's just the actors randomly lurching
               | around in their chairs while acting.
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | Well, to be fair, if you filmed yourself in a car, with a
               | windshield-attached camera, driving over rough terrain,
               | and then stabilized the footage, it would also look like
               | you and other passengers lurching around - though perhaps
               | in a more synchronized fashion.
        
               | kossTKR wrote:
               | No they are just better. I watched them years later and
               | not as a kid and they're just great.
               | 
               | It's about the pacing, pauses and slower character and
               | world building.
               | 
               | Newer movies are built for second screening and
               | maximising action sequences to not bore the audience
               | which kills all atmosphere and sense of time and place -
               | the worst example of this is the new Avatar movie,
               | absolutely horrible in every sense of the word, while the
               | first one was alright as i remember it.
               | 
               | You simply need to "set the stage", explain why this
               | story is important and why the characters deserve
               | sympathy or hate before you start your 3 hour action
               | sequence - this step has been removed for some reason.
               | 
               | Verhovens old movies were the same - there was a nerve, a
               | seriousness, a reflection beneath the action, now it
               | could just have well been created by an alien algorithm
               | without a sense of the actual human experience.
               | 
               | I wonder if it's a ridiculously extrapolated but
               | misunderstood tic-tokification of cinema to please
               | marketing? Because i've seen 20 second tik-toks with more
               | emotion and character introduction than a lot of newer
               | movies.
        
               | lancesells wrote:
               | Interesting, I didn't love the new Avatar but I thought
               | it was much better paced and directed than a Marvel or
               | superhero movie. Shots lingered and showed more emotion
               | than the current crop of action / fantasy movies (Star
               | Wars, Marvel, Transformers).
        
               | AB1908 wrote:
               | Huh, I had friends complain that it was overly long and
               | focused a lot on its setup and setting up bits and pieces
               | like the kids' relationships and the new culture.
        
               | codazoda wrote:
               | For a contrasting movie, I thought "Once Upon a Time in
               | Hollywood" (2019) was the opposite. The movie spends
               | something like 80% of the time with setup. I loved it, my
               | wife hated it. Looks like it's 70% on Rotten Tomatoes.
        
               | thebeardisred wrote:
               | One other difference: sounds & soundtracks. I don't mean
               | the foley work per se, but songs you would _want_ to
               | listen to very often written _for_ the movie.
               | 
               | With the explosion of synthesis software and digital
               | audio workstations its easy for a small team to score a
               | sound track on the cheap.
               | 
               | As with everything tough, there's always a few outliers,
               | like (both) of the Tron: Legacy soundtracks.
        
               | hermitdev wrote:
               | Tron: Legacy soundtrack was done by Daft Punk. Not
               | exactly your run of the mill movie studio hack job...
               | 
               | Other interesting soundtracks done by musicians not known
               | for soundtrack work you might find interesting: Fight
               | Club (Dust Brothers) Event Horizon (Orbital with London
               | Symphony Orchestra) Chaos Theory: Splinter Cell 3 (game)
               | (Amon Tobin)
        
               | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
               | Considering that DP lazily sampled entire hooks, still
               | pretty run of the mill.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | ModernMech wrote:
               | > i've seen 20 second tik-toks with more emotion and
               | character introduction than a lot of newer movies.
               | 
               | Sure but this assumes movies are about characters and
               | emotion. Michael Bay gets a lot of shit, but sometimes
               | you just want to see things explode. Sometimes you just
               | want to see robots fighting for two hours. Sometimes you
               | want to see California swallowed by a tidal wave and the
               | emotional character plot lines get in the way.
               | 
               | I would pay to see a movie called "Two Hours Of Giant
               | Rocks Hitting The Earth: No Characters Edition", and the
               | fact Michael Bay is rich means a lot of people agree.
        
               | geoduck14 wrote:
               | >Michael Bay gets a lot of shit, but sometimes you just
               | want to see things explode.
               | 
               | That's the truth right here. I once ran across kung-fu
               | movie called Chocolate (iirc). The premise was an
               | autistic girl who was good at fighting. The _entire_
               | movie was her walking into a room, kicking _major_ but,
               | then walking into a _different_ room to kick _more_ but.
               | 
               | It was _great_.
        
               | pnt12 wrote:
               | I'm almost disgusted by this post!
               | 
               | Jokes aside, it's funny how that sounds the most boring
               | stuff to me and you'd have to pay me to sit in a chair
               | for 2 hours watching that.
        
               | fullsend wrote:
               | Watching the Bayhem piece by Every Frame A Painting gave
               | a ton of great context for Michael Bay's work. Super
               | interesting, ten minutes long, worth a watch. That
               | channel is full of grade A content.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | > a movie called "Two Hours Of Giant Rocks Hitting The
               | Earth: No Characters Edition"
               | 
               | But would you go to see Giant Rocks 2?
               | 
               | > the fact Michael Bay is rich means a lot of people
               | agree
               | 
               | This is the argument often made for Avatar against the
               | "no cultural impact" observation. It still doesn't have
               | any quotable lines or memorable characters.
        
               | ModernMech wrote:
               | > But would you go to see Giant Rocks 2?
               | 
               | If the graphics were better and the explosions were
               | bigger, yes!
        
               | kossTKR wrote:
               | I appreciate action too but i mean, character or world
               | building is not that hard and doesn't really require that
               | much when a 30 second commercial can give you enough
               | backstory to (unwillingly) empathise with someone.
               | 
               | Theres a difference from both Avatar 1 and quite a few of
               | Michael Bay's older movies - they still have have a story
               | arch.
               | 
               | Just a few minutes of character building and a few
               | intermezzos and these movies would be much, much better
               | in my opinion.
               | 
               | But i also hate too much CGI. I don't know what happened
               | to "well dosed", it makes what's dosed so much more
               | valuable.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | It's not nostalgia. Movies today are mostly hyper-
               | produced, over focused-grouped, effects driven piles of
               | blandness trying to avoid being offensive or take chances
               | because if every critic 51% likes you, you have a 100% on
               | rotten tomatoes.
        
               | Tenoke wrote:
               | You (and many in this thread) are comparing the best
               | movies of a period to the average movies of today.
               | 
               | In reality there's as good or better movies now and a ton
               | of crap from back then, too.
        
               | NhanH wrote:
               | What are the blockbusters of equivalent quality nowadays?
               | 
               | I have to specify blockbuster because otherwise it
               | doesn't make much sense to compare Terminator to a small
               | indie movie
        
               | darkerside wrote:
               | How about Blade Runner 2049?
        
               | mrexroad wrote:
               | I very much enjoyed it. Sad it was a box office failure.
        
               | gsich wrote:
               | Dune, Avatar 2 probably.
        
               | tartuffe78 wrote:
               | The new Top Gun movie?
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | AKA Navy Star Wars + hardcore nostalgia play (so many
               | shot-for-shots with the original)?
        
               | TeMPOraL wrote:
               | What's wrong with nostalgia, though?
               | 
               | People like to criticize back-references as a cheap way
               | to entertain the audience knowing the referenced works,
               | but I think it's a legitimate feature. A movie or a show
               | doesn't exist in a vacuum; watching a sequel or a work in
               | the same universe, I _expect_ to see both subtle and
               | direct call-backs.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | I liked the nostalgic aesthetic and references of
               | stranger things, it never felt gratuitous. Top gun had a
               | lot of shot for shot callbacks and filler scenes/shots
               | that could have been edited down/out to make for a
               | tighter movie. It's like they couldn't decide if they
               | wanted it to be a sequel or a remake, so they said "why
               | not both?"
        
               | burkaman wrote:
               | Mad Max: Fury Road
        
               | jonhohle wrote:
               | Which is also an excellent counter-example to almost
               | every other action movie which all rely on almost
               | completely CG everything. No that MM:FR didn't have its
               | share of CG, but the practical effects create an
               | authentic anxiety to much of the action.
               | 
               | Also: Top Gun: Maverick
        
               | weregiraffe wrote:
               | This.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jamesgeck0 wrote:
               | The Mission Impossible films have maintained high quality
               | despite an absurd number of sequels.
               | 
               | I'd also compare _Everything Everywhere All at Once_
               | favorably against a lot of old blockbusters.
               | 
               | Modern technology aside, Top Gun: Maverick feels like it
               | could have come out thirty years ago.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | EEAO is very unusual; it's an "indie" "arthouse" film
               | that's stuffed full of references to other bits of non-
               | Western cinema, as well as having lots of SFX action
               | sequences. It had a budget of under $15m (per wikipedia),
               | which is much less than the $170m of Top Gun: Maverick.
               | I'm very glad that somehow it got made, but there's a
               | real drive to _not_ make any middle-budget movies like
               | that any more.
               | 
               | > Top Gun: Maverick feels like it could have come out
               | thirty years ago.
               | 
               | I've not seen it, but to what extent is that because it's
               | a remake of a film that came out 30 years ago?
        
               | jonhohle wrote:
               | I never liked Top Gun, but when others spoke fondly about
               | it, a Maverick-like movie was what I always wanted.
               | Reasonable character arc, lots of practical effects, good
               | story. It is a script that would have worked in the 80s
               | and fits in that style of concise, well paced action
               | movie, but it's far superior to the original, imho.
        
               | CuriouslyC wrote:
               | It would have been concise if they hadn't wasted 30
               | minutes of screen time trying to milk top gun nostalgia.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | Given advances in technology, I'm not so sure it has to
               | be a blockbuster for there to be a comparison. Especially
               | given how formulaic blockbusters can be. (Eg there are 6
               | Transformers movies, with 2 more in development.) Drive
               | (2011) is an indie movie, costing an estimated $20
               | million (inflation adjusted) compared to almost $220 for
               | Terminator 2. Everything Everywhere All At Once cost $25
               | million to make, just over the threshold of "indie".
               | 
               | Comparing computing power is a bit handwavey, but former
               | Pixar employee Chris Good estimated that the SPARCstation
               | 20 render farm cluster that rendered Toy Story had only
               | half the power of the 2014 Apple iPhone 6.
               | https://www.quora.com/How-much-faster-would-it-be-to-
               | render-...
        
               | bronson wrote:
               | Terminator was made for $6.4 mil, like $18 million now.
               | Not a blockbuster.
        
               | blackhaz wrote:
               | Guardians of the Galaxy (the first one), Thor 3, Boyhood.
               | There are blockbusters of our days that are going to be
               | eternal classics, like the Terminator.
        
               | phkahler wrote:
               | >> I have to specify blockbuster because otherwise it
               | doesn't make much sense to compare Terminator to a small
               | indie movie
               | 
               | I thought Terminator was a relatively low budget movie.
               | Not an indie though.
        
               | palebluedot wrote:
               | Bladerunner 2049
        
               | cal85 wrote:
               | No, we are comparing the best action movies of then with
               | the best action movies of now.
        
               | 1over137 wrote:
               | They were better. Creators experimented. Now, it's all
               | about profit maximization and it's better to repeat known
               | formulas: sequels, reboots, etc.
        
               | lm28469 wrote:
               | For me a big part of it is due the slow pace. Today's
               | slow movies are filmed in a way that make them feel more
               | fast paced than action movies from the 80s/90s
               | 
               | Watch Jurassic park and Jurassic world back to back, or
               | The mummy vs the remake with Tom Cruise, too many
               | cameras, too many view points, too many cuts
        
               | AB1908 wrote:
               | How do you feel about the new Dune? Curious to hear your
               | thoughts.
        
               | snapcaster wrote:
               | As someone who LOVES the books (the frank herbert ones at
               | least). I thought the movie was great. They captured the
               | tone very well, casting was good. Even the dialogue
               | created just for the movie that Duke Leto and Paul have
               | about Desert power was very Dune. It also helped make
               | clear that the Atriedes aren't "good guys" right off the
               | bat.
               | 
               | My only real complaint was that the time between them
               | landing and the Harkonnen's invading was too short and
               | didn't cover all the intrigue/politics occuring on
               | Arrakis before the invasion.
               | 
               | In the movie it came off as: Okay Leto you get Arrakis
               | now LOL JK WE'RE INVADING IMMEDIATELY. But that being
               | said, I understand there are length constraints and I
               | think the movie was already about 2.5 hours so I can
               | forgive them
        
               | grogenaut wrote:
               | I read the books back in the 90s, but I don't remember it
               | being obvious the atradies were bad. The seemed pretty
               | egalitarian other than the main family. But I may have
               | missed it. The harkonens are just horrific though. Am I
               | remembering wrong from someone who has read more
               | recently.
               | 
               | I'm fine with how they did it in the movie I just never
               | really jive with shows where everyone sucks.
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | The Atreides are still agents of a foreign empire
               | occupying and exploiting Arrakis. They impose the
               | Imperial hierarchy and law on the unwilling populace, by
               | force, if necessary, and they extract the resources. They
               | do try to treat their subjects well within the boundaries
               | permitted by the system, unlike Harkonnens; it's just
               | that the system itself is inherently oppressive, so the
               | best they can do is being "good feudals". Paul even
               | spells it out at one point:
               | 
               | "You sense that Arrakis could be a paradise," Kynes said.
               | "Yet, as you see, the Imperium sends here only its
               | trained hatchetmen, its seekers after the spice!"
               | 
               | Paul held up his thumb with its ducal signet. "Do you see
               | this ring?"
               | 
               | "Yes."
               | 
               | "Do you know its significance?"
               | 
               | Jessica turned sharply to stare at her son.
               | 
               | "Your father lies dead in the ruins of Arrakeen," Kynes
               | said. "You are technically the Duke."
               | 
               | "I'm a _soldier of the Imperium_ ," Paul said,
               | "technically a hatchetman."
               | 
               | Kynes' face darkened. "Even with the Emperor's Sardaukar
               | standing over your father's body?"
               | 
               | "The Sardaukar are one thing, the _legal source of my
               | authority_ is another," Paul said.
        
               | sumedh wrote:
               | The Dune was a complete waste of time. I have no idea if
               | its adapted from a book or something but I just couldnt
               | understand the story, just that the spice should flow.
        
               | mrexroad wrote:
               | ... which version did you watch?
               | 
               | And yep, it's adapted from a a book!
        
               | iamacyborg wrote:
               | This isn't the case for everything. Go watch Too Old to
               | Die Young on Amazon Prime if you want to see beautiful
               | slow cinema.
        
               | wseymour wrote:
               | [dead]
        
               | toivo wrote:
               | Your experience is subjective and unique to you and so is
               | for everyone else. That's why there's no point to use
               | some objective metric to rate entertainment anyways. I
               | don't generally like modern movies or TV as well, and I
               | feel some what entitled to that opinion.
        
             | papito wrote:
             | It was the golden age of special effects, when weak
             | computing power had to be supplemented with effects as
             | craft - mechanical and chemical. Those impressive liquid
             | metal bullet holes are NOT computer-generated:
             | 
             | https://www.instagram.com/p/CViWXcMlJrM/
        
               | the_af wrote:
               | And they used twins as doubles in many cases, instead of
               | CGI. One is the security guard in Sarah Connor's prison
               | (in some shots his twin brother acts like the T-1000),
               | and yet another case is of course with Linda Hamilton and
               | her twin sister.
               | 
               | A fascinating practical effects scene, cut from the
               | theatrical release, is when Sarah is removing a chip from
               | the T-800's head in front of a mirror. Instead of using
               | CGI, there is no mirror but a hole in the wall, where you
               | can see actual Arnie and Linda Hamilton's twin sister
               | acting as the "reflection"; the people closer to the
               | camera are actually a dummy (or a double with heavy
               | prosthetics for the hole in the head) and Linda Hamilton.
               | This means they are sync'ing their movements to simulate
               | a mirror!
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/wrDo7wVXrBQ?t=122
               | 
               | (I understand this was done both to avoid showing a
               | camera reflection on the mirror, and also to avoid using
               | a dummy for Arnie's face, which worked in the original
               | Terminator but would have been too noticeable for T-2's
               | era).
        
               | papito wrote:
               | Yeah, I just love the ingenuity and sometimes brazenness
               | of 90s effects and stunts. They look way better than
               | today's green screen atrocities.
               | 
               | Just yesterday I learned that in Cliffhanger (also aged
               | amazingly well), they paid _one million dollars_ to a
               | stuntman to actually travel the harness between the two
               | planes while airborne. Not bad for a day 's work.
        
               | ihatepython wrote:
               | My favorite scenes where they used a body double was with
               | Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills Cop. Pause at about the
               | 0:34 mark.
               | 
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyWjZM780lw
        
             | triceratops wrote:
             | I rewatched it a few months ago. Fully expected the parts
             | where they talk about the tech to be laughably wrong
             | compared to the current state of the art in ML. Nope. Spot
             | on.
             | 
             | (Edit: with artistic license obviously. It was plausible-
             | sounding instead of cringe technobabble).
        
             | tootie wrote:
             | A lot of the jokes making T-800 talk like a 90s skater punk
             | are pretty cringey today. I still have fond memories but my
             | kids thought it was pretty dumb.
        
               | everdrive wrote:
               | Just wait til they're 30-40, and they hear how kids are
               | talking. Guaranteed it will sound just as dumb. :)
               | 
               | I think it was always supposed to sound a little dumb.
               | The T-800 is acting as a father figure, and bridging the
               | cultural gap with his surrogate 'son.'
        
               | blincoln wrote:
               | I agree. Now that I'm older, I've seen kids 30 years
               | younger than me try to get their parents to use modern
               | popular slang, and it feels super cringey.
               | 
               | James Cameron would have been 36 when he was making
               | Terminator 2, and he's a polymath with an eye for detail,
               | so I'm sure he deliberately went for that layered
               | meaning.
        
           | kwanbix wrote:
           | If the fabricated voice is 100% indistinguishible from the
           | real one, how can the T-1000 or T-800 distinguish them?
        
             | axus wrote:
             | The content of the message gave away that the speaker was
             | missing knowledge the real person should have.
        
               | kwanbix wrote:
               | So you are implying that the robots know all about the
               | people? Seems unreasonable.
        
               | jrussino wrote:
               | This is the scene they're talking about:
               | https://youtu.be/qKLTbJMJOSI
        
         | tromp wrote:
         | I smell a terminator...
        
         | O__________O wrote:
         | Related Clip:
         | 
         | https://youtube.com/watch?v=dGowjtiu908
        
           | optimalsolver wrote:
           | For those who don't know, the woman playing his mother is
           | "Vasquez" from James Cameron's previous film, Aliens.
        
             | ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote:
             | Vasquez*
        
               | optimalsolver wrote:
               | Thanks. Corrected.
        
             | ManuelKiessling wrote:
             | Can I just unsolicitedly say that James Cameron is a god?
        
             | wigster wrote:
             | OMG. two of my favourite movies and I never spotted her as
             | the same woman. I guess I'm not alone, looking at her IMDB
             | bio...
             | 
             | Jenette Goldstein is a true chameleon. She is so effective
             | as an actress, it is nearly impossible to recognize her
             | from role to role.
        
             | higgins wrote:
             | "Hey Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a cybernetic
             | organism?"
        
               | svth wrote:
               | No. Have you?
        
               | frereubu wrote:
               | "Hey, Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a 17th
               | century Spanish painter?"
        
               | keithalewis wrote:
               | Why drag Vasquez into this?
        
       | ghoshbishakh wrote:
       | Can someone try with David Attenborough 's voice?
        
       | swader999 wrote:
       | Can someone merge this with Chat GPT so I don't have to attend
       | anymore zoom meetings?
        
       | springcoil wrote:
       | You might want to look at www.aflorithmic.ai - scalable
       | infrastructure using models like VALL-E
        
       | Havoc wrote:
       | Hmm. I wonder if this can be used to make a home assistant sound
       | like someone
        
       | mdhb wrote:
       | I wonder to what degree some of these issues can be addressed
       | with cryptographic protocols.
       | 
       | In some sense I feel like we already have good solutions in place
       | when dealing with this problem in other contexts.
       | 
       | We can for example get some guarantees about "who wrote this
       | code" with signed git commits for example.
       | 
       | The problem is a lot of our commonly used communication protocols
       | were never designed with them in mind.
        
         | nicce wrote:
         | It is very possible and in some areas it is already been used.
         | For example there are video cameras which sign data in realtime
         | for 4k resolution already.
         | 
         | So you would need microfone with TPM chip and you are good to
         | go. You just need that video player which can verify the data.
        
       | 152334H wrote:
       | More samples available on their github page:
       | 
       | https://valle-demo.github.io/
       | 
       | Personally, I find that their samples aren't near anything I'd
       | call "dangerous". I cross-compared the baseline examples to the
       | VALL-E ones when the paper dropped, and found several that were
       | garbled in the usual robotics sounding TTS failures.
       | 
       | Probably a good thing that people are getting alarmed before a
       | true indistinguishable voice cloner exists, though.
        
         | rileyphone wrote:
         | https://play.ht/voice-cloning/
        
           | o_____________o wrote:
           | $300/month :/
        
         | chpatrick wrote:
         | One or two papers down the line...
        
           | nemacol wrote:
           | I can hear their voice
           | 
           | > "Dear Fellow Scholars, this is Two Minute Papers.... "
        
             | llagerlof wrote:
             | "What a time to be alive!"
        
             | infinityio wrote:
             | ...but is it actually their voice, or just a simulation of
             | it?
        
           | coding123 wrote:
           | I think as soon as someone embeds the "excitement" or
           | "sadness" and other emotions as training. Or perhaps combine
           | it with GPT's abilities. There are no voice inflections. It's
           | too dry and non-compelling. It's very much like a non-
           | emotional programmer right now.
        
           | serverholic wrote:
           | He makes great videos but I wish he'd use a tool like Vall-E
           | to narrate because his natural vocal cadence is like nails on
           | a chalkboard to me.
           | 
           | The way. He talks. Is like. He puts. A period. Every. Word.
           | Or two.
        
             | rafram wrote:
             | His old videos weren't like that! He certainly had an
             | accent, but his speaking pattern was much less unusual. I
             | think that he's exaggerated it over time, leaning into it
             | as a part of his channel's trademark (so-to-speak) style.
             | Kind of silly.
        
               | serverholic wrote:
               | Silly is fine, but like I said this is like nails on the
               | chalkboard for me. To the point where I have to turn his
               | videos off even though I want to watch them.
               | 
               | It's like when Lex Fridman goes on a tangent about love.
               | I just can't do it lol.
        
             | hermitdev wrote:
             | > The way. He talks. Is like. He puts. A period. Every.
             | Word. Or two.
             | 
             | So... Like Shatner? Sorry, couldn't resist.
        
         | cortesoft wrote:
         | Yeah, it is only a matter of time. Better to be prepared before
         | it happens then to be caught off guard.
        
         | naillo wrote:
         | This looks simple enough that stable diffusion people should be
         | able to replicate it by applying openais whisper on a some
         | large dataset of voices. Exciting times.
        
         | another-dave wrote:
         | > Personally, I find that their samples aren't near anything
         | I'd call "dangerous".
         | 
         | I don't think you'd be able to pretend it's a speech given on
         | TV or whatever, but I think they're probably good enough for
         | phishing e.g. the usual scam of pretending to be a stranded
         | family member, but this time rather than texting/WhatsApping
         | them, you can do a live audio call.
         | 
         | Just (like the newspapers used to do to celebrities) try out
         | lots of PIN numbers on random voicemails and lift a message
         | from a family member if you get in. I think given that mobile
         | phone reception isn't always stellar anyway, this would be be
         | very effective.
         | 
         | Layer in a background track of random street noise and prompt
         | the target with deflections "Sorry, the line is really bad;
         | it's breaking up a lot. I can't hear you properly but if you
         | can still here me, can you send me $X".
        
           | galangalalgol wrote:
           | Or tie it to chatgpt primed with the prompt of: You are an
           | actor playing the role of <target's partner> and you have
           | left your credit card at home, but you need the information
           | to purchase a gift for <target> before the sale ends.
        
             | gigel82 wrote:
             | Sprinkle in some deepfake on top and you get a killer
             | combo.
        
           | hooande wrote:
           | People already do this now, successfully, without deep faking
           | voices. Apparently all it takes is having someone of the
           | correct gender kind of mumble. People will hear what they
           | have been emotionally primed to hear
           | 
           | a real life $5 wrench type solution
        
             | goodgoblin wrote:
             | you are totally right - I just watched the original Point
             | Break over the weekend and all the surfing scenes obviously
             | have different human beings from the actors they are meant
             | to resemble but your brain still wants to think they are
             | the same.
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | > before a true indistinguishable voice cloner exists
         | 
         | At the rate things are progressing that's about two years away.
        
       | vault wrote:
       | Can someone please transcribe what "Speaker prompt" in Example #1
       | is really saying? I can't get "When I love making babies" out of
       | my head! I reduced speed to 0.5X and understood the final, "maybe
       | suspended but".
        
         | sgerenser wrote:
         | I heard "whereby lovemaking may be suspended, but..."
        
           | hef19898 wrote:
           | Ah, I have serious Demolition Man vibes now.
        
           | kmill wrote:
           | Thanks for confirming -- I didn't trust my own ears for such
           | a strange fragment of a sentence!
           | 
           | It turns out it comes from a book called "The Foolish
           | Dictionary: An exhausting work of reference to un-certain
           | english words, their origin, meaning, legitimate and
           | illegitimate use, confused by a few pictures" by Wurdz and
           | Goldsmith. (Talk about nominative determinism -- a dictionary
           | by _Wurds_?)
           | 
           | Full entry:
           | 
           | HAMMOCK From the Lat. _hamus_ , hook, and Grk. _makar_ ,
           | happy. Happiness on hooks. Also, a popular contrivance
           | whereby love-making may be suspended but not stopped during
           | the picnic season.
        
       | Jevon23 wrote:
       | There are no legitimate uses for this technology. Its only
       | purpose is to scam and deceive. It should be regulated in the
       | same way that nukes and guns are regulated. Contrary to what a
       | lot of the HN crowd thinks, regulation of technology is certainly
       | nothing new. Up until now personal computing has been largely
       | free of regulation, but that doesn't mean we couldn't start.
        
         | deegles wrote:
         | I can think of one... podcast cleanup app:
         | 
         | 1. Speech to text
         | 
         | 2.fix up/edit text with GPT-3
         | 
         | 3.text to speech in the original speaker's voice(s), preserving
         | prosody and inflection with Vall-e.
         | 
         | If done with every participant's consent I don't see how it's
         | not legitimate.
        
           | burlesona wrote:
           | Descript already does this.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | morrisjm wrote:
           | you could also just skip step 1 https://twitter.com/lexman_ai
        
         | Veen wrote:
         | You can look in this thread for legitimate non-deceptive uses.
         | Voice synthesis for people with degenerative diseases like ALS,
         | for example.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34309432
        
         | alexb_ wrote:
         | Technology like this should absolutley be regulated in the same
         | way guns should be - not at all.
        
         | notfried wrote:
         | Once perfected, I can imagine there are many legitimate use
         | cases for it. Like an author using their voice to narrate their
         | audiobook without having to spend time in a recording studio,
         | or Hollywood using it instead of dubbing sessions for re-
         | recording muffed lines. It'd also be interesting if this could
         | be used for foreign language dubbing - imagine if it can use
         | the voice profile of an actor to convert subtitle text files
         | into foreign audio language tracks in in the same tone of the
         | actor.
        
           | wrycoder wrote:
           | I recently updated my telephone contact with a large
           | brokerage service.
           | 
           | Part of this was to voiceprint me during the conversation.
           | 
           | The agent assured me that this was more secure than asking me
           | the customary identification questions, and that their system
           | would just use the voice identification in the future.
        
           | Popeyes wrote:
           | God yes, a dubbed European film without the naff American
           | actor.
           | 
           | Or for games where you can get the language for the NPCs all
           | sorted out and change dialogue right up until it goes gold.
        
             | galangalalgol wrote:
             | Is the inference so heavy for this that it cannot run as
             | part of the game? I want to play planescape torment with
             | the text read to me, I don't know who I'll cast though. I
             | suspect I actually like text dialogue in games better.
        
         | dokem wrote:
         | Only the state and criminals should have something. What could
         | go wrong?
        
         | fumblebee wrote:
         | The difference is that nukes and - in most countries - guns are
         | harder to find. Regulation is easier when you have more
         | centralised distribution channels. Code is infinitely
         | replicable at marginal cost, and so highly accessible once it's
         | open source.
         | 
         | While I agree with you that the net effect of such technology
         | will be negative, there's no way regulation can keep up.
        
           | galangalalgol wrote:
           | I'm not sure the net effect will be negative. Cheaper and
           | more follow along audiobooks for people with dislexia, a
           | voice for people who lost their own. Lots of bad stuff too
           | sure. But your first point is spot on. There is no stopping
           | it. AI has come to replace all creative endeavors with poorer
           | quality regurgitated substitutes leaving human created things
           | as a luxury for the wealthy... Except people will not stop
           | singing, painting, writing, or coding and too many people
           | enjoy doing those things for the price to ever go too high.
           | Except law clerks, and contract lawyers. They will probably
           | just go away, but now they can pick that paintbrush up, or
           | get the band back together. Or code up an unauthorized sttng
           | game with synthetic vocals for picard.
        
         | carbocation wrote:
         | I disagree that this has no legitimate uses. This could be a
         | phenomenal prosthesis for people who have lost their ability to
         | speak. For example, many ALS patients.
        
         | patwolf wrote:
         | I would rather assume that this technology exists unfettered by
         | any regulation and instead figure out how to deal with the
         | ramifications.
         | 
         | Guns are regulated, but we still have metal detectors.
        
         | EGreg wrote:
         | Sorry buddy but open source software eventually catches up and
         | you can't stop it.
         | 
         | People just don't realize that technology is what is behind the
         | ability for people to wreak havoc on an unprecedented scale.
         | One specific organism can't do that much, even with a sword.
         | But today, every person will have more and more power, and you
         | can't possibly stop them all!
        
         | kruuuder wrote:
         | > There are no legitimate uses for this technology.
         | 
         | What about this: You have a voice actor whose voice is part of
         | a company's brand (maybe for an animated mascot). You can now
         | also use that voice for dynamic text, for example audio books
         | or for a voice assistant.
        
           | nullsense wrote:
           | Or this: Morgan Freeman reads you all of your audiobooks from
           | now on and they sound so much more profound and relaxing now.
        
             | Popeyes wrote:
             | It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
        
           | mikro2nd wrote:
           | How long would it take, do you suppose, for ~~Disney~~
           | $ProductionCompany to simply get rid of the voice actor
           | altogether. Now there's another person without work.
        
             | r3trohack3r wrote:
             | You could create a lot of jobs by banning the wheel.
        
             | maximus-decimus wrote:
             | I always find this argument bizzare.
             | 
             | I don't want to live in a world where people are doing jobs
             | that provide no value but only exist because "everyone
             | needs a job". I would literally prefer we give them the
             | money and they do no work than forcing people to do a
             | useless job just for the sake of them working.
             | 
             | Do people really want their jobs to be the equivalent
             | Sisyphus pushing a boulder up a hill aimlessly everyday?
             | There's a reason why this is seen as a divine punishment in
             | the myth.
        
               | omgsean wrote:
               | I personally don't want someone to clone my voice without
               | my permission and then use it to make money. I imagine
               | many people feel the same way.
               | 
               | I agree that I would prefer to move to a society where we
               | don't have to work, but do you honestly think we're
               | moving in that direction? We'll get the "there's no work"
               | part, but not the "and here's some money" part.
        
             | blincoln wrote:
             | Or the voice actor could license their profile to
             | {{ProductionCompany}}, and not even have to go to the
             | recording studio anymore unless it's a project they're
             | personally interested in or where the production team wants
             | to pay extra for a custom performance.
             | 
             | A high school friend of mine did that and became the voice
             | of the "pronounce this name" feature on Facebook.
        
           | blincoln wrote:
           | Flip it around and it works too. Anyone who wants to could
           | potentially set all of the text-to-speech systems they use
           | (their phone/house's voice interaction, listening to
           | audiobooks, warning messages from their car/plane, etc.) to
           | whichever voice profile they like best. Basically what TTS
           | has been trying to do since the 70s or 80s, but with an
           | infinite number of natural-sounding voices.
           | 
           | Maybe pick a couple of different ones for context-aware
           | messages. Something familiar/reassuring for most messages,
           | something less comfortable for "terrain!"-type alerts. If the
           | model supports it, it could even morph between the two as the
           | criticality of the message escalates.
        
         | DonHopkins wrote:
         | And Michael Winslow should be gagged and locked up for the sake
         | of humanity!
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAv1o9C9qow
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NOmalcIZZw
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCvqSo0C5ns
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-IJ1AilJ2I
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Winslow
        
         | thsbrown wrote:
         | What if I did 3 second long impersonations of characters for a
         | video game. I then used this tech to produce more lines of
         | dialogue for each character in said game.
        
         | joezydeco wrote:
         | I joke with my wife that I'll always be around to bug her, even
         | after I pass. She'll carry my brain around in a jar ala
         | Futurama and talk to me that way.
         | 
         | But, obviously, the technology is getting to the point where a
         | decade or so from now she'll be able to have a GPT-like chat
         | with me with my own voice. The first company to offer that to
         | the loved ones of a deceased person will make a fortune, not
         | for any mode of deception but just to soothe the hurt.
        
         | hahajk wrote:
         | I think it's important to keep considering whether or not
         | something _should_ be regulated, at least keep asking and not
         | fall victim to an echo chamber.
         | 
         | But in this case, couldn't your argument have been applied to
         | photoshop or video manipulation software? Those are meant to
         | deceive, right?
        
         | tuffacton wrote:
         | I have a project in mind to replicate my dead father's voice.
         | Would be nice to "have a conversation" with him again.
        
           | morrisjm wrote:
           | Related: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-
           | gastronomy/the-e...
        
           | passion__desire wrote:
           | Ray Kurzweil would like to have a word with you.
        
         | bulbosaur123 wrote:
         | Reading audiobooks seems like a good use case.
        
         | kraquepype wrote:
         | As a father, I like reading to my kids and I know one day they
         | won't ask or I won't be able to.
         | 
         | I've wanted to record readings of some of their favorite books
         | to pass on to them, but if I don't get the chance this seems
         | like a way to get some analog of the experience.
        
         | lannisterstark wrote:
         | >There are no legitimate uses for this technology
         | 
         | oh please. You never wanted to listen to an article/book in the
         | voice of a narrator you liked? I do. Maybe you should read a
         | bit more.
         | 
         | Just because you lack in thinking of the ways it can improve
         | our lives doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. That's a you
         | problem. Are you so deprived of free thought, and so insecure
         | of your capabilities, that the first thing you do when seeing
         | new technology is turn to the government to curb it? if you
         | don't like it, no one should use it?
         | 
         | >regulation
         | 
         | ah there it is. the 'answer' to every technological progress
         | you have is "regulashions!"
         | 
         | >guns are regulated
         | 
         | thankfully they are not in some places. So it should be
         | regulated the same as they are - Not at all.
        
           | ausbah wrote:
           | you're like OP in that you're just state what you think
           | should be with out really saying why
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | > There are no legitimate uses for this technology.
         | 
         | I mean this kindly: your lack of imagination is not an adequate
         | replacement for actual facts
        
           | lannisterstark wrote:
           | >I mean this kindly
           | 
           | I don't lol. OP is a bundle of sticks. Every time there's a
           | tiny bit of tech progress with this stuff they just go "MAH
           | REGULASHIONS PLEASE PAPA GOVERNMENT SAVE US!"
        
         | aierou wrote:
         | On what would we base this regulation? A hazy feeling of
         | discomfort?
        
           | r-zip wrote:
           | You're joking, right?
        
         | visarga wrote:
         | Voice cloning is a way to implement TTS diversity and allow
         | authors to automate their own voices.
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | There was a 2011 paper/essay which argued that in the near
         | future there will be a world war between those wanting to
         | regulate AI (the democratic West) and those who do not
         | (authoritarian regimes).
        
           | burlesona wrote:
           | The regulatory impulse seems to be going the opposite
           | direction so far, China recently banned deepfakes etc.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | Only banned their citizens using it, but on the other hand
             | China is leader in using AI against their population (face
             | recognition, ...)
        
       | DonHopkins wrote:
       | VALL-E sounds uncanny, and totally tubular!
        
       | Pigalowda wrote:
       | Didn't Deep Voice from Baidu claim this several years ago? Was
       | that a legit claim or is MS playing catch up?
        
       | kybernetyk wrote:
       | Does this mean I could finally speak English without my heavy
       | accent?
        
         | Traubenfuchs wrote:
         | Accents can be minimized through dedicated training.
         | 
         | After being ridiculed for my horrendous English pronunciation I
         | watched hours of English movies and repeated every single
         | sentence I heard until it sounded right.
        
         | optimalsolver wrote:
         | Thatsa correcto.
        
           | kybernetyk wrote:
           | I don't speak Italian ;)
        
             | nullsense wrote:
             | Zattsu Raito?
        
       | losthobbies wrote:
       | "My voice is my passport. Verify me?"
        
       | 2342346666 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | fudged71 wrote:
       | I understand these examples are zero-shot with short samples--
       | which is impressive, but would the output quality improve
       | significantly with longer input samples?
       | 
       | For example I noticed it couldn't quite pick out the accent on
       | some samples because they were so short. But if the model had
       | more example words to hear then I'd think it would accurately
       | understand the accent..
        
       | knaik94 wrote:
       | There is an open source implementation of these features in
       | Pytorch:
       | 
       | https://github.com/lucidrains/audiolm-pytorch
        
         | paulluuk wrote:
         | I wish they had included their training weights though. This
         | can only be used if you happen to own a huge audio corpus and
         | have a lot of money.
        
           | bob_theslob646 wrote:
           | >This can only be used if you happen to own a huge audio
           | corpus and have a lot of money.
           | 
           | May you elaborate on that? Do you mean that you need a large
           | training set of your voice and you need $$$ in order to train
           | the models on an expensive GPU?
        
             | paulluuk wrote:
             | So, looking at it again I see that the audio corpus is
             | available for free (openslr.org, 60GB for 1000 hours of
             | speech), however I suspect that training the model on that
             | amount of data would take insane amounts of time on a
             | single GPU.
             | 
             | Instead, usually companies train such models in the cloud.
             | GPT-3 for example used 800 GB of training data and cost
             | about 5 million USD to train. Extrapolating from that, I
             | guess that the same setup would cost 375,000 USD to train
             | (although I assume that this model has waaaaay fewer
             | parameters making it a lot cheaper -- but I can't seem to
             | find how many parameters it has).
             | 
             | If someone else already spent that money to train the
             | model, then you could just take the "training weights",
             | feed them into the model, and it would be as if you had
             | already trained it -- at which point you'd only need to
             | provide your own voice and retrain it on your own GPU for a
             | short time.
             | 
             | I'm by no means an ML expert though, so I could be totally
             | wrong on this.
        
               | morrisjm wrote:
               | James Betker in the tortoise-tts repo, which is similar,
               | says he spent $15k for his home rig. I'm not finding
               | right now how long it took to train the tortoise model
               | but feel like I read him say weeks/months somewhere. Obvs
               | all kinds of variations depending on coding efficiency
               | and dataset size, but another datapoint
               | https://nonint.com/2022/05/30/my-deep-learning-rig/
               | https://github.com/neonbjb/tortoise-tts
        
       | russianGuy83829 wrote:
       | Sigh.. Now we'll need voice changers when calling
       | people/institutions we don't trust
        
       | altcognito wrote:
       | Would be awesome to pair this with near real time language
       | translation. I get from the demo it seems that this is still very
       | language specific, but I assume it will happen sometime.
        
       | 323 wrote:
       | Imagine combining this with a ChatGPT with the prompt "you are a
       | telephone scammer pretending to be a bank employee, convince the
       | other person to give you their bank password"
        
         | EvanDotPro wrote:
         | I'm working on exactly the opposite of this, I have a GPT-3
         | based bot hooked up to voice recognition and Coqui for TTS I'm
         | training to bait scammers. It has memory like ChatGPT (but only
         | the previous 50 things said). The delay/latency makes it tough
         | to get the scammer to not hang up initially, but the ones that
         | tolerate the slow responses are very easily fooled by the bot.
         | I'm working on speeding it up more and adding stammering, ums
         | and uhs, and background noises etc to fill the delay.
        
           | moyix wrote:
           | Maybe just pregenerate a couple opening lines that can be
           | used as delaying tactics? "Hang on a sec, let me go somewhere
           | quieter", "I'm driving, can you hold on a moment while I pull
           | over?"
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | is this tech usable in any way? without releasing the code or the
       | model how is this not vaporware?
        
       | Tao3300 wrote:
       | I'd like to get off the ride, please.
        
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