[HN Gopher] Paul Otlet's Mundaneum anticipated the internet [video]
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Paul Otlet's Mundaneum anticipated the internet [video]
Author : sbuttgereit
Score : 62 points
Date : 2023-01-07 16:05 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| eschulz wrote:
| Impressive filing cabinet. The title reminded me of France's
| Minitel https://spectrum.ieee.org/minitel-the-online-world-
| france-bu...
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Mundaneum_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29449341 -
| Dec 2021 (31 comments)
|
| _Paul Otlet Envisioned the Internet Before Computers, Without
| Computers (2014)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22043441
| - Jan 2020 (14 comments)
|
| _The Internet Before the Internet: Paul Otlet's Mundaneum
| (2016)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21560749 - Nov
| 2019 (2 comments)
|
| _Old ideas come back as researchers envision a more structured
| Web (2015)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17327039 -
| June 2018 (6 comments)
|
| _The Future of the Web Is 100 Years Old_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10611015 - Nov 2015 (25
| comments)
|
| _Mundaneum_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10104269 -
| Aug 2015 (2 comments)
|
| _Mundaneum_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9783046 -
| June 2015 (6 comments)
|
| _Dec. 10, 1944: Web Visionary Passes Into Obscurity_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=988008 - Dec 2009 (2
| comments)
|
| _Amazing anticipation of the web from 1934_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=81030 - Nov 2007 (0
| comments, but interesting)
| throw__away7391 wrote:
| Small nitpick: this collection of filing cabinets as well as the
| theorized electronic version of it are centralized projects of
| curated information that really in no way resemble "the Internet"
| and would better be compared to a library or encyclopedia. Many
| such projects to build a central repository of all human
| knowledge have been undertaken at various times throughout human
| history going back thousands of years.
| laurensr wrote:
| To learn more about Belgian efficiency, watch the video "Belgium
| for beginners"
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwHotpl9DA
| aspyct wrote:
| Well, on that topic, I really wanted a good frites mayo
| tonight, but all the local barraques a frites are closed,
| nondedjeu!
| dapozza wrote:
| Patat
| jacquesm wrote:
| To give some context: there is this meme where you have to
| pick a side in the war about naming square cross section
| segments of potato fried in oil, one side of the war names
| them 'frites' (or 'friet'), the other side names them
| 'patat'. Clearly we have representatives of both sides
| here.
| ceres wrote:
| [flagged]
| [deleted]
| hansworst wrote:
| Webmaster, as in the World Wide Web, invented in Europe?
| fallingknife wrote:
| True, but we narrowly avoided the American failure mode of
| selling the whole thing to AT&T.
| karambahh wrote:
| As others pointed out, web, out of CH. Datagrams as an FR
| invention. Fiber optics, CN
|
| I purposely did not mention the "inventors" of these 3 random
| tidbits because, guess what? It's not that much important
| because invention is an iterative process and nationalism
| should not have any part in it. Don't be glad <country>
| invented <thing> because they usually didn't, and it was a
| collective progress made on top of something else.
|
| However, the life of Tim Berners Lee is very interesting, the
| maths of Pouzin are cool and Kao got a Nobel Prize in
| physics...
| Symbiote wrote:
| > Fiber optics, CN
|
| Meaning Charles Kao? A Hong Kong citizen working in Britain
| for a British subsidiary of an American company.
|
| His family fled communist China, Kao probably wouldn't want
| his work attributed to that country.
| Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote:
| The internet or the world wide web?
|
| https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=1sxUPxJsXZY
|
| > collect the entirety of human knowledge in one place, and make
| it available to everyone. ... unfortunately, no-one had invented
| web servers or home computers yet. So instead, they ended up
| making the world's greatest filing cabinet
| credit_guy wrote:
| "Nearly inventing" is not something to be proud of.
| contravariant wrote:
| Most inventions are an assembly of near inventions that happen
| to be at the right place at the right time.
| willnonya wrote:
| Engineering is an iterative process, that doesn't mean that
| almost engineering something contributed to the eventual
| design.
|
| Getting credit for something you didn't invent rather than
| the word you did is just tacky.
| esperent wrote:
| I rather think that the way we put all the fame and glory
| onto a single person/team for inventions that took
| generations of "standing on the shoulders of giants" , is,
| well tacky isn't the word. Trite, maybe?
|
| We're reducing the incredible collective work of millions
| of minds to the name of a single person and claiming they
| did it all. That's nonsense of course and every time you
| read into any discovery you'll learn all the connections
| that led up to it. Nothing in science, maths, or technology
| is the work of one person. Acknowledging this doesn't
| belittle the incredible work that your favorite scientist
| or mathematician did any more than pointing out that your
| favorite sportsball star plays on a team, by the way. It's
| just a more honest reframing.
|
| On the other hand, famous names linked to discoveries is
| inspiring and simple even if it's not entirely true. Maybe
| that's why we do it?
| telesilla wrote:
| Sure it is! And the video clearly states that Vint Cerf knew of
| the project. Maybe he read the book! You can too:
|
| http://traite.czam.de/en/latest/otlet_traite_1934_FR.html
|
| Those who attempt first, generate knowledge that we build on.
| Would the Wright Bros be anywhere without the bravado of
| earlier failed pioneers?
|
| In fact, Wilbur flew first that day then failed, so then
| Orville went and that's the flight we remember. And they might
| not have gotten there at all without inspiration from the
| childhood helicopter toys of Penaud, who I'm not sure tried to
| fly himself but it wasn't long after that a bicycle maker
| tried.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| > without the bravado of earlier failed pioneers?
|
| Corpses. ...and no disrespect intended, quite the opposite.
|
| The Giants, on the shoulders of whom we stand, are probably
| all dead, now.
|
| Those, still alive, go often unrecognised...until later.
| patricktlo wrote:
| I love the Tim traveler, probably my favorite channel on YouTube!
| RedShift1 wrote:
| Yayyy, Belgium on HN! Waffles for everyone!
| jb1991 wrote:
| Why reduce a country to a snack? And if you will, why not those
| tasty Belgian frites?!
| [deleted]
| joshu wrote:
| the web. not the internet.
| somat wrote:
| Yes I know, this is pointless pedantry, but this is nothing like
| the internet(a network of networks, the closest predecessor of
| which I can come up with is the post office) or even the web(a
| decentralized set of documents capable of being cross-linked) It
| is sort of like wikipedia(a centralized set of cross-linked
| documents) However, given the brevity of information you can fit
| on a card I would guess that it is actually a search engine(an
| index of decentralized documents).
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| dang wrote:
| I realize this video is begging for shallow dismissals but can
| you guys please take a minute to dig a little deeper? You don't
| need much. Here, for example:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRN5m64I7Y&t=16s
|
| Obviously he was thinking about more than a filing cabinet.
| gjvc wrote:
| wow. patronising much?
| dang wrote:
| This thread was terrible when I first saw it. (It still is,
| and it was then as well.) I'm sorry for patronising, but part
| of moderation's job is to make calls about what's within the
| site purview vs. what's not. This was not. Not that any
| particular commenter is to blame; it's a tragedy of the
| commons thing.
|
| Some of that was the baity title, some was the video focusing
| on the filing cabinet, and some was the cheeky-shallow
| internet style. Still, commenters here should be willing to
| work a little (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&p
| refix=true&sor...). Not much, mind--but a little.
| AlbertoGP wrote:
| I enjoyed this video, but I think its effect depends on how
| much you know beforehand about Paul Otlet. I'm very happy to
| see that there is now a museum.
|
| For those that would like to learn about its significance in
| context I recommend this talk: "Alex Wright - The Web That
| Wasn't: Forgotten Forebears of the Internet"
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6rwMw0EjI&t=823s
|
| I happen to be very interested in Hypertext, but it was only in
| 2016 when I actually learned about Douglas Engelbart and Ted
| Nelson. I _thought_ I knew about them, having found some
| mentions of them, but that time I did listen to _them_ for the
| first time in recorded interviews, I read for the first time
| _their_ writings, not what someone wrote about them, and
| realized _how much_ I did not know until then.
|
| Once I realized that, I started looking for more information
| and some time later I learned about Paul Otlet from Alex
| Wright, but all that took a while.
|
| This video by "The Tim Traveller" is, as the channel name
| implies, primarily a travel video and it is a pleasure to watch
| if you already know about Paul Otlet. But if not, what stands
| out is things like confusing The Internet with The World Wide
| Web, things that someone like me would just ignore while
| enjoying the good bits.
| pnf wrote:
| Has Ted Nelson ever shipped anything?
| lbreakjai wrote:
| Then Belgium sort of did it again.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cailliau
| kekkidy wrote:
| [dead]
| Symbiote wrote:
| Wikipedia describes it better as "a milestone in the history of
| data collection and management" or a forerunner of Wikipedia.
|
| Card index systems as shown were not unusual in libraries or
| large offices. The difference here seems to be the global scope,
| collaboration in sourcing text, and the public access.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundaneum
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(page generated 2023-01-08 23:01 UTC)