[HN Gopher] Paul Otlet's Mundaneum anticipated the internet [video]
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       Paul Otlet's Mundaneum anticipated the internet [video]
        
       Author : sbuttgereit
       Score  : 62 points
       Date   : 2023-01-07 16:05 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | eschulz wrote:
       | Impressive filing cabinet. The title reminded me of France's
       | Minitel https://spectrum.ieee.org/minitel-the-online-world-
       | france-bu...
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related:
       | 
       |  _Mundaneum_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29449341 -
       | Dec 2021 (31 comments)
       | 
       |  _Paul Otlet Envisioned the Internet Before Computers, Without
       | Computers (2014)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22043441
       | - Jan 2020 (14 comments)
       | 
       |  _The Internet Before the Internet: Paul Otlet's Mundaneum
       | (2016)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21560749 - Nov
       | 2019 (2 comments)
       | 
       |  _Old ideas come back as researchers envision a more structured
       | Web (2015)_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17327039 -
       | June 2018 (6 comments)
       | 
       |  _The Future of the Web Is 100 Years Old_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10611015 - Nov 2015 (25
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Mundaneum_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10104269 -
       | Aug 2015 (2 comments)
       | 
       |  _Mundaneum_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9783046 -
       | June 2015 (6 comments)
       | 
       |  _Dec. 10, 1944: Web Visionary Passes Into Obscurity_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=988008 - Dec 2009 (2
       | comments)
       | 
       |  _Amazing anticipation of the web from 1934_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=81030 - Nov 2007 (0
       | comments, but interesting)
        
       | throw__away7391 wrote:
       | Small nitpick: this collection of filing cabinets as well as the
       | theorized electronic version of it are centralized projects of
       | curated information that really in no way resemble "the Internet"
       | and would better be compared to a library or encyclopedia. Many
       | such projects to build a central repository of all human
       | knowledge have been undertaken at various times throughout human
       | history going back thousands of years.
        
       | laurensr wrote:
       | To learn more about Belgian efficiency, watch the video "Belgium
       | for beginners"
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlwHotpl9DA
        
         | aspyct wrote:
         | Well, on that topic, I really wanted a good frites mayo
         | tonight, but all the local barraques a frites are closed,
         | nondedjeu!
        
           | dapozza wrote:
           | Patat
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | To give some context: there is this meme where you have to
             | pick a side in the war about naming square cross section
             | segments of potato fried in oil, one side of the war names
             | them 'frites' (or 'friet'), the other side names them
             | 'patat'. Clearly we have representatives of both sides
             | here.
        
       | ceres wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | hansworst wrote:
         | Webmaster, as in the World Wide Web, invented in Europe?
        
         | fallingknife wrote:
         | True, but we narrowly avoided the American failure mode of
         | selling the whole thing to AT&T.
        
         | karambahh wrote:
         | As others pointed out, web, out of CH. Datagrams as an FR
         | invention. Fiber optics, CN
         | 
         | I purposely did not mention the "inventors" of these 3 random
         | tidbits because, guess what? It's not that much important
         | because invention is an iterative process and nationalism
         | should not have any part in it. Don't be glad <country>
         | invented <thing> because they usually didn't, and it was a
         | collective progress made on top of something else.
         | 
         | However, the life of Tim Berners Lee is very interesting, the
         | maths of Pouzin are cool and Kao got a Nobel Prize in
         | physics...
        
           | Symbiote wrote:
           | > Fiber optics, CN
           | 
           | Meaning Charles Kao? A Hong Kong citizen working in Britain
           | for a British subsidiary of an American company.
           | 
           | His family fled communist China, Kao probably wouldn't want
           | his work attributed to that country.
        
       | Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote:
       | The internet or the world wide web?
       | 
       | https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=1sxUPxJsXZY
       | 
       | > collect the entirety of human knowledge in one place, and make
       | it available to everyone. ... unfortunately, no-one had invented
       | web servers or home computers yet. So instead, they ended up
       | making the world's greatest filing cabinet
        
       | credit_guy wrote:
       | "Nearly inventing" is not something to be proud of.
        
         | contravariant wrote:
         | Most inventions are an assembly of near inventions that happen
         | to be at the right place at the right time.
        
           | willnonya wrote:
           | Engineering is an iterative process, that doesn't mean that
           | almost engineering something contributed to the eventual
           | design.
           | 
           | Getting credit for something you didn't invent rather than
           | the word you did is just tacky.
        
             | esperent wrote:
             | I rather think that the way we put all the fame and glory
             | onto a single person/team for inventions that took
             | generations of "standing on the shoulders of giants" , is,
             | well tacky isn't the word. Trite, maybe?
             | 
             | We're reducing the incredible collective work of millions
             | of minds to the name of a single person and claiming they
             | did it all. That's nonsense of course and every time you
             | read into any discovery you'll learn all the connections
             | that led up to it. Nothing in science, maths, or technology
             | is the work of one person. Acknowledging this doesn't
             | belittle the incredible work that your favorite scientist
             | or mathematician did any more than pointing out that your
             | favorite sportsball star plays on a team, by the way. It's
             | just a more honest reframing.
             | 
             | On the other hand, famous names linked to discoveries is
             | inspiring and simple even if it's not entirely true. Maybe
             | that's why we do it?
        
         | telesilla wrote:
         | Sure it is! And the video clearly states that Vint Cerf knew of
         | the project. Maybe he read the book! You can too:
         | 
         | http://traite.czam.de/en/latest/otlet_traite_1934_FR.html
         | 
         | Those who attempt first, generate knowledge that we build on.
         | Would the Wright Bros be anywhere without the bravado of
         | earlier failed pioneers?
         | 
         | In fact, Wilbur flew first that day then failed, so then
         | Orville went and that's the flight we remember. And they might
         | not have gotten there at all without inspiration from the
         | childhood helicopter toys of Penaud, who I'm not sure tried to
         | fly himself but it wasn't long after that a bicycle maker
         | tried.
        
           | InCityDreams wrote:
           | > without the bravado of earlier failed pioneers?
           | 
           | Corpses. ...and no disrespect intended, quite the opposite.
           | 
           | The Giants, on the shoulders of whom we stand, are probably
           | all dead, now.
           | 
           | Those, still alive, go often unrecognised...until later.
        
       | patricktlo wrote:
       | I love the Tim traveler, probably my favorite channel on YouTube!
        
       | RedShift1 wrote:
       | Yayyy, Belgium on HN! Waffles for everyone!
        
         | jb1991 wrote:
         | Why reduce a country to a snack? And if you will, why not those
         | tasty Belgian frites?!
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | joshu wrote:
       | the web. not the internet.
        
       | somat wrote:
       | Yes I know, this is pointless pedantry, but this is nothing like
       | the internet(a network of networks, the closest predecessor of
       | which I can come up with is the post office) or even the web(a
       | decentralized set of documents capable of being cross-linked) It
       | is sort of like wikipedia(a centralized set of cross-linked
       | documents) However, given the brevity of information you can fit
       | on a card I would guess that it is actually a search engine(an
       | index of decentralized documents).
        
       | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | dang wrote:
       | I realize this video is begging for shallow dismissals but can
       | you guys please take a minute to dig a little deeper? You don't
       | need much. Here, for example:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRN5m64I7Y&t=16s
       | 
       | Obviously he was thinking about more than a filing cabinet.
        
         | gjvc wrote:
         | wow. patronising much?
        
           | dang wrote:
           | This thread was terrible when I first saw it. (It still is,
           | and it was then as well.) I'm sorry for patronising, but part
           | of moderation's job is to make calls about what's within the
           | site purview vs. what's not. This was not. Not that any
           | particular commenter is to blame; it's a tragedy of the
           | commons thing.
           | 
           | Some of that was the baity title, some was the video focusing
           | on the filing cabinet, and some was the cheeky-shallow
           | internet style. Still, commenters here should be willing to
           | work a little (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&p
           | refix=true&sor...). Not much, mind--but a little.
        
         | AlbertoGP wrote:
         | I enjoyed this video, but I think its effect depends on how
         | much you know beforehand about Paul Otlet. I'm very happy to
         | see that there is now a museum.
         | 
         | For those that would like to learn about its significance in
         | context I recommend this talk: "Alex Wright - The Web That
         | Wasn't: Forgotten Forebears of the Internet"
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR6rwMw0EjI&t=823s
         | 
         | I happen to be very interested in Hypertext, but it was only in
         | 2016 when I actually learned about Douglas Engelbart and Ted
         | Nelson. I _thought_ I knew about them, having found some
         | mentions of them, but that time I did listen to _them_ for the
         | first time in recorded interviews, I read for the first time
         | _their_ writings, not what someone wrote about them, and
         | realized _how much_ I did not know until then.
         | 
         | Once I realized that, I started looking for more information
         | and some time later I learned about Paul Otlet from Alex
         | Wright, but all that took a while.
         | 
         | This video by "The Tim Traveller" is, as the channel name
         | implies, primarily a travel video and it is a pleasure to watch
         | if you already know about Paul Otlet. But if not, what stands
         | out is things like confusing The Internet with The World Wide
         | Web, things that someone like me would just ignore while
         | enjoying the good bits.
        
           | pnf wrote:
           | Has Ted Nelson ever shipped anything?
        
       | lbreakjai wrote:
       | Then Belgium sort of did it again.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Cailliau
        
       | kekkidy wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | Symbiote wrote:
       | Wikipedia describes it better as "a milestone in the history of
       | data collection and management" or a forerunner of Wikipedia.
       | 
       | Card index systems as shown were not unusual in libraries or
       | large offices. The difference here seems to be the global scope,
       | collaboration in sourcing text, and the public access.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundaneum
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-08 23:01 UTC)