[HN Gopher] Guitar Effects Guidebook, Vol. 20 [pdf]
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Guitar Effects Guidebook, Vol. 20 [pdf]
Author : brudgers
Score : 155 points
Date : 2023-01-07 14:43 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (static.roland.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (static.roland.com)
| mr_sturd wrote:
| Haven't had much of a chance to play with Boss pedals, myself. I
| have a couple of Behringer "knock offs", along with other effects
| pedals.
|
| Such a dizzying array of options and sounds to be discovered when
| they're chained together; and I can happily spend hours down the
| rabbit hole looking for tunes that compliment the distortions
| that have been twiddled up!
| kij wrote:
| https://guitarix.org/ is a software amp & f/x. It's been a savior
| for headphone only guitar playing.
| jasonladuke0311 wrote:
| Wow thank you for this, as a noob I was combing through the Boss
| Katana manual last night trying to understand what the hell
| everything does.
| Schattenbaer wrote:
| If you want a delightful hobby, then I can recommend building
| your own guitar pedals.
|
| It combines music, electronics, general nerding out (e.g.
| debating germanium VS silicon diodes), and some visual design if
| you want to make the enclosures pretty. You might even be able to
| sell some.
|
| I started by building a kit pedal with one of my kids as a
| weekend project.
|
| Some search terms to get you started: build your own clone, diy
| pedal schematics, tag board music effects.
| ilyt wrote:
| Modular synths are similar in that way, except way less popular
| so more expensive on both kits and ready-made stuff.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| VCV rack - software: https://www.factmag.com/2017/09/12/vcv-
| rack-open-source-virt...
| timc3 wrote:
| Doesn't really combine those things the GP is talking
| about.
|
| I have VCV installed but never use it because I have a
| large modular system - the hardware is just so much more
| fun.
| mr_sturd wrote:
| There's also Cardinal, which is essentially VCV Rack but
| provides free and open source plugins.
|
| https://github.com/DISTRHO/Cardinal
| jcpst wrote:
| I was able to get into modular in college with the
| synthesizers.com monthly payment plan. Each installment you
| paid, they mailed another module. They start you out with a
| few modules and a rack with a power supply mounted for you.
| The whole plan together gave you a bit of a deal on the cost.
|
| It doesn't look like they offer that anymore, but you could
| still do the same thing yourself. If I was starting over, I'd
| probably do eurorack, that seems to be where all the modern
| innovation is.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| It is a cool hobby.
|
| Just a note of caution it is no way to _save money_ though.
|
| You can save money over expensive boutiques, but if you want a
| Tubescreamer for less money, Behringer make one for $20!
|
| If you want to tinker though, it really is fun
| alonmower wrote:
| Couldn't agree more. I haven't kept up with it but back in
| college I used to make replicas of discontinued pedals as gifts
| for some of my guitar playing friends. Dirt cheap parts, some
| fun circuit analysis and modeling, soldering practice, and very
| happy friends.
| FatActor wrote:
| When I starting learning circuit analysis in college in the
| 80's I would draw out the pedal schematics via hand-inspection
| of the board itself and try to figure out wtf they were doing.
| I didn't have access to part #s until I was in college (you
| couldn't just google a datasheet for whatever 8-pin DIP was on
| the board, you had to look through giant catalogs of them from
| each manufacturer).
|
| Two things immediately jumped out at me ... first, that
| undergrad circuit analysis does not help understanding circuits
| designed by wizened experts ... and second, that even the
| simplest circuits require all kinds of considerations beyond
| the y=H(x) transfer functions (and that linear systems don't
| begin to describe what i was seeing). Humbling.
|
| It would be interesting to see how the Chorus schematic from
| 1985 compares to the Chorus schematic of 2023.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| > It would be interesting to see how the Chorus schematic
| from 1985 compares to the Chorus schematic of 2023.
|
| Is probably identical. The actual board is probably different
| in that they will have used surface mount to bring the cost
| down.
|
| There is very little in the fx world that is not a tweak on a
| few classic designs... unless you are going dsp of course
| Tade0 wrote:
| The 2023 Chorus would probably be fully digital instead of
| using a bucket-brigade device.
|
| Even the humble DS-1 has now a digital version which,
| contrary to its analog counterpart "chugs".
|
| I've always felt that the signal to noise ratio in digita
| circuits just wasn't there, but perhaps there were some
| significant advancements over the years in this field which
| I missed.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| True, delay effects are all probably cheaper to make in
| their digital form.
|
| Overdrives are likely to be identical
| RomanPushkin wrote:
| I bought Quad Cortex quite some time ago, and I don't need amps
| and pedals anymore. Moreover, sold my over 20 pedal collection
| and stuff. I highly recommend Quad Cortex, the setup is so much
| easier now, without sacrificing quality. (amateur guitar player
| with 20 years amateur experience)
| wtf_is_up wrote:
| The digital stuff is etremely good these days, but it just
| doesn't do it for me. I have a Kemper with profiles of every
| amp under the sun but I still enjoy using my tube amps and
| pedals more. But yeah, Kemper, Quad Cortex, AxeFX, etc are hard
| to beat values if you don't mind fiddling.
| eggsmediumrare wrote:
| Recording an album is a totally different experience with a
| Kemper. No more anxiety about how the tones will sit in the
| mix... If it's not working, you can re-amp it.
| roblh wrote:
| As a gigging musician, it's blown my mind how far digital effects
| have come, specifically amps and pedals. For years I had a fairly
| extensive collection of pedals, which has now been almost
| completely replaced by a Line 6 helix pedal that does absolutely
| everything. People are never gonna stop using analog pedals cause
| they're a ton of fun, but from a purely practical perspective,
| we're finally at the point where modelling really is
| indistinguishable from the real thing.
| vibrolax wrote:
| I used an Alesis Quadraverb GT with an ART X-11 midi foot
| switch since 1991. I love great sounding pedals as much as the
| next guitarist, but I really didn't enjoy the care and feeding
| of a pedal board (those were pretty much all DIY in that era).
| The Alesis is still working 100% at age 32.
| jcpst wrote:
| > we're finally at the point where modelling really is
| indistinguishable from the real thing.
|
| I'd love to experience this, but so far it still seems like the
| technology is more in the "good enough for most
| people/situations" rather than indistinguishable.
| etse wrote:
| What about the modeling sound in particular fails
| indistinguishable? My ears aren't trained enough.
| jcpst wrote:
| This was mentioned is a sibling comment, but I'll 2nd that
| it matters more on a bluesy/rock style tone. It's right
| when the power amp is starting to get saturated.
|
| On a modeling amp, I have not heard one that doesn't
| introduce extra digital artifacts into the tone. It's like
| the difference between GCI and IRL.
|
| Another is on the other end of the amplitude spectrum, very
| quiet playing, where I hear extra digital artifacts
| introduced.
|
| As the other poster mentioned though, these differences may
| not come across at all in a metal/pop setting.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| In my limited experience(and I haven't tried the expensive
| stuff like Kemper or Neural dsp), the difference is most
| apparent to the player in the way amp and effects react to
| playing dynamics. For a blues player sat 'on the edge of
| overdrive' the effect of injecting emotion into ones playing
| comes through the amp in a way I couldn't get with a digital
| amp. This the affects the players response. I feel like a
| million dollars through my Fender Twin. I close my eyes and
| channel my Stevie Ray. It didn't happen to me through a Boss
| Katana. If you were paying to listen to me (as if), you would
| get better vfm from the tube amp.
|
| If I played metal, or was backing a pop group, one pedal di'd
| to the desk sounds like the dream
| neoromantique wrote:
| I ditched my amps for Neural DSP VST' and I play somewhat
| similar stuff. I recommend trying them out, especially
| "Tone King Imperial MKII" (there's a free trial available).
| jimnotgym wrote:
| That is really interesting. Can I ask a couple of things?
| What do you do for monitoring? What about amp induced
| sustain, do you lose that?
| sickcodebruh wrote:
| Same! I recently acquired a Fractal FM3, the most basic floor
| version of their Axe FX3, and it won me over very quickly. I've
| been a tube amp purist for many years but this thing sounds so
| good and simplified my live and recording workflows
| dramatically. Even without its magically incredible effects, it
| was amazing, but I was blown away when I started digging
| deeper.
| krat0sprakhar wrote:
| Acquired the Fractal FM3 last month as well and it has been
| amazing. So much to explore and learn! I really feel this is
| easily the best time to be guitar player. So much awesome
| gear that is easily accessible. I love it!
| jimnotgym wrote:
| > I really feel this is easily the best time to be guitar
| player.
|
| I tell you what I'll trade you the gear for the chance to
| play the Marquis club in the 60's! There was so much to
| learn about what guitars could do back then.
| stev-0 wrote:
| It isn't. People saying modeling is indistinguishable from
| analog gear are just incorrect.
|
| For a touring musician the modeling route is just WAY better.
| Recalling your sound night after night without working with
| sensitive and fiddle equipment great.The bottleneck for sound
| quality is always FoH and never your rig. A Kemper or helix is
| the better option for nearly everyone.
|
| That being said, I wouldn't ever use modeling in the studio.
| Stumbling upon a great sound when exploring doesn't happen in
| the same way. Editing patches becomes a chore and analysis
| paralysis becomes a force of destruction.
|
| Recalling that sound in a live setting though...
| djaychela wrote:
| >It isn't. People saying modeling is indistinguishable from
| analog gear are just incorrect.
|
| I hear this a lot, but I've never actually seen any proper
| testing done on this.
|
| Personally, I think the early stuff (Digitech 2120, etc)
| wasn't good enough. I did use it (and loved it when gigging
| for exactly the reasons you outline) and it was great, but
| there were some elements of it that weren't as good as the
| 'real' thing. Ironically the Wah was the weakest part of that
| particular rack unit, and it was the only analogue thing in
| there!
|
| However, now I don't think there's any reason why you'd take
| the stomp boxes over a Helix. I've done some back-to-back
| testing with some of the pieces of gear, and I can't tell the
| difference.
|
| I agree about editing - it's certainly not the same
| experience as a bunch of pedals, but in every other area,
| it's a no-brainer for me, including in the studio.
| brudgers wrote:
| * * *
| TheRealPomax wrote:
| > It isn't. People saying modeling is indistinguishable from
| analog gear are just incorrect.
|
| Blind experiments with long time musicians keep showing this
| claim to be flat out wrong, over and over.
|
| Playing on a Kemper with a Helix, when set up properly (and
| that's hardly a science anymore, tons of people have done the
| preset tweaking for us by now), is simply indistinguishable
| from analog.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| That's actually the opposite of what most guitarists would
| say from my experience. As a gigging guitarist, modelers
| still sound weak and anemic in a live mix. I always hated
| hauling around a 100 watt full or half stack tube amp to my
| gigs, but it's worth it in terms of mix and tone. Modelers
| seem to work in a live setting when you need a very clinical
| sound and are playing large venues with excellent sound
| systems. Meshuggah is a great example, and there's a trend in
| progressive/math metal bands to use modelers for this very
| reason - they do cold/surgical/highly distorted sounds well.
|
| In a studio, I'll use a good modeler all day long. Going
| direct and modeling in the box is the best - you can change
| your virtual amp and cab after recording to get the perfect
| sound/mix. You would never be able to tell the difference in
| the right hands.
| sickcodebruh wrote:
| I've been using an FM3 through a Fryette Power Station 100
| into a 4x12 and it's pretty awesome. I've only used it for
| rehearsals so far but it sounds better (subjectively) than
| my main tube amp. This to me is a good option for folks who
| want to go the modeling option live but aren't down with
| running it through the PA.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| Definitely. I was talking more about going direct to FOH
| with a modeler. Using one as a preamp into a tube power
| amplifier works well in my experience as long as you
| disable the internal cabinet modeling.
| sickcodebruh wrote:
| I really appreciate modeling in a recording setting, at least
| so far with metal tones. It gives me significantly more
| control, faster, without getting my head blown off by a 4x12,
| and without ever leaving my desk. And recall! A dream come
| true. Editing with the Fractal software is pretty painless,
| no more of a chore than swapping amps and cabs and mics and
| preamps in a studio.
| l33tman wrote:
| I gladly recommend Alex Ball's high quality free documentary on
| youtube about Roland. It's not guitar-effect focused (mostly the
| synths and drum machines) but it shows the many branches of
| Roland's products over the years.
|
| https://youtu.be/JcbpRMZIQ8g
| peteforde wrote:
| While this is an interesting deep dive into Boss pedals, anyone
| interested in pedals hasn't been looking to Boss for innovation
| for decades.
|
| Programmable DSPs have led to the rise of innovators such as
| Chase Bliss, Meris, Hologram Electronics, Fairfield Circuitry and
| Empress releasing tools in a pedal form-factor that are northern
| Thai street food compared to Boss' Whopper Junior.
|
| If you're interested, I recommend Knobs:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_BLyPxShG4
| mr_sturd wrote:
| I ended up on a YouTube tangent a few days ago looking at
| Hologram's Microcosm. That pedal looks like a _lot_ of fun.
| peteforde wrote:
| It _is_ fun. A game-changer, and relatively /subjectively
| affordable.
| peteforde wrote:
| Recommended for you:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kaqk1wR3SM
| riley_dog wrote:
| The *Boss Guitar Effects Guidebook, Vol. 20
| ilyt wrote:
| *and countless clones
| slater- wrote:
| the RC loop pedals changed my life. do you play an instrument
| with an output? GET A LOOP PEDAL YESTERDAY.
|
| practicing electric guitar without a loop pedal is like building
| a website without live server.
| jcpst wrote:
| I've been jamming with a drummer for years, just the two of us.
| A few months back he says "I had this looper in my closet". I
| laid down a bass guitar loop, he started grooving over it, then
| I pulled out my guitar and all of a sudden we were sounding
| like a power trio. It blew me away.
| ilyt wrote:
| Hell, even just long echo allows for some funkiness
| weinzierl wrote:
| I don't play guitar, but keys and live looping is incredible
| fun. I do it in my DAW (Reaper) though and I'm not satisfied
| with the ease of use but also don't want to have another pedal
| lying around.
|
| Does anyone know a working software solution that just mimics a
| basic pedal? Should also be trustworthy, I'm hesitant to
| install random free VSTs.
| mhh__ wrote:
| Buy Ableton or Bitwig
| sixdimensional wrote:
| There is also an iOS app called Loopy HD which is pretty
| simple and cheap, if you have the Apple audio input adapter
| cable.
| Blackthorn wrote:
| Seems like most pedals should be handled by reaper's built in
| effect plugins, no?
| InCityDreams wrote:
| Look up wusik stuff - pretty sure the guy has what you need.
| And, it might be $1 at the moment.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| Installing random free VSTs is a great deal of half the fun.
| Here's nine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCzf38fCqB4
|
| If I'm not mistaken, one he does miss out on is Synth1, but
| then that would be 10 free VST's, and also gives
| www.kvraudio.com a reason to exist.
|
| *The real problem is, people writing crappy VSTs and
| installing bits of crud all over my PC (and that inclludes
| DAW software writers), but hey,that's why backups and
| rollbacks exist, I guess.
|
| To specifically answer your question "Does anyone know a
| working software solution that just mimics a basic pedal?" -
| which particular pedal? The software you may be hesitant to
| install may have the answer you require: I've found software
| that sounds better than the pedals they emulate, but aren't
| as easy to control (with a mouse), and are equally at the
| mercy of a DAW crash (looking at you Steinberg :-).
| kitotik wrote:
| While definitely not basic, Sooperlooper[0] is a fantastic
| opensource clone of the old Echoplex hardware.
|
| [0] https://sonosaurus.com/sooperlooper/
| phkahler wrote:
| I've always been interested in trying to code guitar effects.
| Just over the break I submitted an 8-band EQ to OBS studio
| that has yet to be merged. That got me thinking about doing
| more, but I don't know what the best environment to code for
| is.
| erik_p wrote:
| Wouldn't that environment be VST?
| phkahler wrote:
| That looks like an option. But then I need to load the
| plug in in a DAW of some sort.
|
| If there a simpler, more basic place to use them, like an
| effects box app for raspberry pi?
| mr_sturd wrote:
| Would you be looking for a MIDI control pedal which could be
| assigned to the record command in the DAW?
| jerpint wrote:
| Do you know how to do this? Also what would be the best
| software for live looping?
| tanseydavid wrote:
| Be sure to look around on YouTube to see what people are
| accomplishing with Ableton Live for live looping.
| sixdimensional wrote:
| Ableton has an actual looper plug-in it comes with that
| works just like a pedal, in addition to Session View,
| which is looping on steroids and one of the key features
| of it.
|
| I'm just somebody who has used it a lot, not associated
| to Ableton in any way.
|
| Another popular DAW for loop-based recording is FL Studio
| (a little less expensive than Ableton with lifetime free
| updates and plenty powerful). Also a longtime user of FL.
| mr_sturd wrote:
| I'm just getting started exploring with exploring DAWs
| myself and haven't looked at live looping yet. You'd want
| some sort of MIDI controller for it, and I understand
| there's hardware for recording samples and MIDI if you
| don't want to use a DAW.
| cooldrcool3 wrote:
| I'm not an expert at recording but in my experience trying
| to do anything live with a DAW is next to impossible due to
| latency issues. It would probably just be easier to record
| into the daw then spend a few seconds in the gui to loop it
| properly.
| munificent wrote:
| > trying to do anything live with a DAW is next to
| impossible due to latency issues.
|
| It takes a little effort (and sometimes money), but you
| can definitely get latency low enough to be able to use
| the DAW live. Consider that almost every electronic
| artist playing music on stage today is using Ableton
| Live.
|
| The basic components are:
|
| 1. Make sure your OS's drivers aren't introducing too
| much latency. I hear horror stories about the default
| audio drivers on Windows but as a Mac user I've never had
| to worry about this.
|
| 2. Make the buffer size small in your DAW. DAWs process
| audio a block of samples at a time because it's much
| kinder to the CPU's cache and gives you better overall
| throughput. But chunking obviously adds latency because
| you don't hear a single sample from the buffer until the
| entire buffer is done. Controlling the buffer size lets
| you make the latency/performance trade-off wherever you
| want.
|
| At a 48k sample rate, each sample is ~0.02 milliseconds
| long. So a buffer size of 1,024 adds 21ms of latency,
| which is low enough for doing things like tweaking
| effects and arranging live, but high enough that you will
| definitely notice it if you're playing individual notes
| on an instrument. Dropping the buffer size down to 128
| gets you down to ~2.6ms of latency, which is essentially
| unnoticeable.
|
| 3. Make sure your audio interface doesn't introduce too
| much latency. You can find sites that measure this
| precisely. My experience on my Mac is that even my cheap
| Focusrite audio interface is low enough to work fine. If
| you really get into this, you can spend extra money and
| get interfaces with lower latency.
| slater- wrote:
| yes. for this reason (and because screens are lame), i
| would just get a pedal.
| mr_sturd wrote:
| Have you used any hardware for playing live? Genuinely
| open to tips in this domain.
| slater- wrote:
| the boss rc series kills. if you're a beginner, i'd
| recommend the rc-1. it's very basic, but this is a good
| thing at first. you'll want to get yourself to the point
| where you can click it on and off in time with the music,
| making a multi-bar sequence that stays in time without
| any quantization. don't even worry about midi to begin
| with, just sync yourself up with your own playing.
| looping seamlessly is its own musical skill.
|
| once you get to be more of a wizard, you'll want things
| like backwards playback and multitrack looping and midi
| sync. you could progress toward more advanced boss
| pedals, or start looking at things like the
| electroharmonix 95000 (i have one, i bought it because i
| saw a video of reggie watts using one)
|
| it's always gonna be a tradeoff between simplicity and
| complexity, and honestly more complex isn't always
| better. i find myself reaching for the rc-1 way more than
| the ehx95000 because it's so simple. just experiment,
| figure out how YOU like to loop. there's no right or
| wrong way. the gear should make you want to keep playing.
| if it doesn't, trade it in for something else. don't burn
| too much time deciding.
| sixdimensional wrote:
| Seconded, good advice although, some may prefer to go to
| at least an RC202 to have two tracks. But simplest is one
| track, RC1 for sure.
| weinzierl wrote:
| Yes, exactly, I use my left piano pedal, which has no use
| for me most of the time otherwise.
| [deleted]
| brudgers wrote:
| Boss has desktop loopers in the RC lineup, now. The guide in
| the link is more than a decade. There's the RC202 and RC505.
| Not that you can't put a peddle on a desk and use your hands
| if the switch design doesn't actually require a stomp.
| sixdimensional wrote:
| RC505 is definitely the gold standard for standalone
| desktop looping (5 tracks) that are suitable for hand
| operation. The 202 is just a less expensive 2 track.
|
| There are other hardware options, like Aeros loop studio or
| even things like Akai MPC One, for example, but these get
| more complex than just a simple looper.
|
| There are basic looper pedals but I suspect most people
| want something like an RC202 or RC505 for basic but
| multitrack simple live looping.
| amelius wrote:
| All those cables are a hassle and the electronics are a bit
| like cheating (edit: for lack of a better word). I want an
| instrument with the effects built-in, physically, mechanically.
| Unfortunately, it seems to be sort of a lost artform.
| jcpst wrote:
| Cheating? Trying to understand- is using signal processing
| "cheating"?
|
| What is cheating in music? All I can think of is deception,
| like lip-syncing.
| [deleted]
| sixdimensional wrote:
| A multieffect pedal is an option, or, a device like an MPC
| one which has tons of AIR digital effects.
| analog31 wrote:
| Not lost at all. Acoustic music is alive and well. An
| interesting thing about the arts is that nothing ever become
| obsolete. Instead, the new just moves in next door to the
| old, and both coexist.
|
| Whether you prefer electronic or acoustic just comes down to
| personal preference. I still play alcohol powered instruments
| (double bass, cello), and ride an acoustic bicycle, though my
| friends badger me about when I'll switch to electric.
| mentos wrote:
| I've wanted to get a looping pedal but at $100+ I've hesitated
| because I'd rather just get an adapter to plug my guitar into
| my PC and simulate pedals in software than spend $100 for every
| pedal I need. From my research an iRig2 is what I should get
| but open to any suggestions?
| brudgers wrote:
| If you are a little patient, you can pick up an Avid mBox3
| for ~$50 including shipping off eBay or Reverb (mine was
| $30). They are USB class compliant, built solid, and have
| high quality electronics consistent with a $500 price when
| new...two mic preamps with 70db gain for ribbon mics. They
| also do direct input and have additional jacks on the
| front...you could spend a lot more and do worse on an audio
| interface. [1] Avid is a high end company.
|
| But of course, I am advocating used gear.
|
| [1]: Also makes a pretty good headphone pre-amp that just
| needs USB power (like from a power brick).
| rograndom wrote:
| There's $20-30 looper pedals on Amazon and Ali Express that
| do the job just fine.
|
| Most any USB audio interface will have an "instrument"
| input/mode that will allow you to plug directly in and will
| work with Mac/Windows/Linux directly with low latency. Most
| of the come with some software bundles as well with free amp
| and pedal models.
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(page generated 2023-01-07 23:00 UTC)