[HN Gopher] Cybiko
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       Cybiko
        
       Author : tcmb
       Score  : 163 points
       Date   : 2023-01-07 08:04 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | helf wrote:
       | I always wanted a Cybiko! Never did manage it.
       | 
       | ... now I want to buy two off eBay to play with. Thanks a lot.
        
       | coredog64 wrote:
       | I have a vague memory of a similar device that was an ebook
       | reader from the same era: LCD screen, AA batteries, and when the
       | batteries died you had to reload all your content from your
       | computer. Anyone else remember this, or am I hallucinating?
        
       | Eleison23 wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | Daegalus wrote:
       | I remember having one, it was pretty awesome.
       | 
       | I'm trying to recreate a modern one using ESP32 WIFI, LORA, eink
       | screen, blackberry keyboard. I have all the parts, just need to
       | start building it
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | There are a LOT of people in this thread with similar thoughts,
         | it seems!
         | 
         | Can we all get together somehow?
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | user eternityforest expressed a wish for a modern equivalent
       | running an ESP32 or something:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30487745
       | 
       | Something close (& and extremely hackable) can be yours for $79 +
       | shipping:
       | https://shop.m5stack.com/products/face?variant=1729043762389...
       | 
       | It's not official yet but they're prototyping a reboot which is
       | compatible with the current core module that has better
       | performance and a touch screen.
        
         | myself248 wrote:
         | It sounds like there are a lot of people, in this thread and
         | elsewhere, pushing for something similar. If only there were a
         | way to unite all this effort under one umbrella...
        
       | zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
       | I still have a bunch of homebrew cybiko games on a drive
       | somewhere. I was in 7th grade when I got a cybiko and it blew my
       | mind. Make your own games, wireless instant messaging, wireless
       | internet. Is there any modern equivalent?
        
       | rvba wrote:
       | Was this used as some sort of a spy device?
        
       | mulnz wrote:
       | These came out when I was in 6th grade and were the hot new nerd
       | toy for a few months. A handful of kids had them and the ability
       | to text message students in nearby classrooms was impossibly
       | cool. They became pretty disruptive as whoever had one had a
       | group of kids huddled around them, pretty sure they were
       | eventually banned by the school district (and were not easy to
       | hide)
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | Smartphones can do almost everything that cybiko did. All that's
       | missing is a low power p2p networking component like a bluetooth
       | LoRa transceiver.
        
       | billiam wrote:
       | This really brings back the memories. So many great ideas
       | executed to 90%, all in a wacky brightly colored package. I was
       | one of the leaders at Palm in 2000 and we did a pretty deep dive
       | on partnering with Yang while looking at the device. I even went
       | to Moscow to check out the small army of teenagers he had
       | thinking up games by the boatload and spinning ideas of a
       | teenager-led digital revolution. Yang understood the teenager
       | customer really well but not the economics of devices: a
       | sophisticated and complex wireless device built to look like a
       | toy but costing well over $100. We wanted him to come up with a
       | better made device that parents would buy for their teens (post
       | 9/11 security) with all the Cylandia concepts and better working
       | radios, but he had his own ideas of taking the product in a
       | million directions at once.
        
         | jerbearito wrote:
         | Fascinating! Have you written more about this?
        
       | jashper wrote:
       | Oh man this brings back memories -- managed to convince a bunch
       | of friends in elementary school to get one, it made us way OP on
       | the playground when playing games that had a bit of espionage
       | involved :P
        
       | memalign wrote:
       | Some relevant previous discussion:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30485353
        
       | mawise wrote:
       | I've thought about trying to build a mesh-networking chat device
       | for my kid and their friends who are too young for phones but
       | would enjoy "texting" in town. Probably using a LoRA +
       | Arduino/Rasberry Pi but by the time I add in a screen and
       | keyboard it might be cheaper/easier to just buy a few of these
       | off ebay.
       | 
       | Anyone have thoughts or experience acquiring and using a Cybiko
       | recently?
        
         | eternityforest wrote:
         | I'm not a fan of actually using unsupported vintage hardware
         | even though Cybiko was really awesome.
         | 
         | What about just using cheap tablets with rugged cases, and some
         | app like meshenger?
        
         | tcmb wrote:
         | The LGR video (linked in this thread) mentions they bought four
         | devices and all had defects that needed to be fixed before they
         | could be used. Most cases the batteries had leaked, which had
         | to be cleaned up. This might cause some corrosion of contacts
         | as well.
         | 
         | So if you want to give used Cybikos a try, you should be
         | willing to deal with this.
        
       | ollybee wrote:
       | The obligatory xkcd https://xkcd.com/2699/
        
       | 3guk wrote:
       | Damn that takes me back - I begged my parents for one, eventually
       | got one and found out that there was no one to actually message.
       | 
       | Definitely remember being a little bit addicted to Cylandia and
       | eventually found another person at my school who had one.
        
       | crims0n wrote:
       | I remember wanting one of these so badly when they were
       | announced, they were marketing the hell out of them at the time.
       | It's a shame they were not more popular, could have been fun
       | bringing them to school and interacting with students similarly
       | to how we later did with PictoChat on the Nintendo DS.
        
       | taylorfinley wrote:
       | I saved up for months and months and bought a lime green one when
       | I was a middle school kid. They had an mp3 player attachment
       | (!!!) so the Cybiko was actually my first digital music player.
       | When they went bankrupt I bought a couple more (magenta this
       | time) off eBay for next to nothing. Unfortunately I didn't have
       | any friends that were as in to tech as I was, so I never really
       | did have anyone to text with during classes. I remember
       | corresponding with the company about some bugs and feature
       | requests and learning they had an army of developers somewhere in
       | Eastern Europe, which really impressed me then. I have such fond
       | memories of my cybikos! I wish I knew where they ended up.
        
       | anthomtb wrote:
       | Does anyone know the protocol used for wireless communications
       | between Cybiko devices? It sounds fairly sophisticated given the
       | time period in which these devices were released.
        
       | Mizza wrote:
       | I found one of these when I was going through some old boxes at
       | my parents house, totally forgot I had it. I really begged them
       | for it - then played with it once, put it in a box and never saw
       | again.
       | 
       | It's an amazing artifact of late 90s design - colored translucent
       | plastic, sort-of-ergonomic form factor, weirdly shaped buttons
       | that can only be used with a stylus, an aerial. The screen is
       | actually amazing for the time, light years ahead of a GameBoy.
       | 
       | The glaring problem, sadly, is that there's nothing you can
       | actually _do_ with it. There were no games of any quality, and
       | the mesh networking would only work over a short range and if
       | somebody else had one, which meant that feature was useless in
       | the suburbs.
       | 
       | I think it has to be remembered that at the time, before
       | smartphones, PalmPilots were a very big deal. Somebody thought
       | hey, what if we made a PalmPilot for teenagers. Maybe not a
       | terrible idea on paper, but they didn't need them.
       | 
       | Still, it's an awesome _object_. A pure crystal of optimistic
       | new-millenium funk, not the drab industrial design of slow,
       | perpetual decline we have now.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | > which meant that feature was useless in the suburbs.
         | 
         | I bought my kids a box of cybikos on eBay. My daughters gave
         | them to their neighborhood friends so they could chat, and the
         | FM transceiver had a range of 300-500 ft, so they had our whole
         | suburban neighborhood chatting. There were a couple of good
         | games. The real problem was batteries. They used prismatic
         | batteries which were simply hard to get, and the batteries
         | would die after about 8 months of use. If I bought at a local
         | store, the battery would be $30 per cell, but if I bought a box
         | online, I could get 144 for $50. I paid $50 for the box of
         | cybikos!
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | I thought they used the same "gumstick" batteries a lot of
           | minidisk players used at the time. Were they something else?
        
       | kgeist wrote:
       | >The Cybiko is a Russian handheld computer introduced in the
       | United States by David Yang's company Cybiko Inc.
       | 
       | Interestingly, the Russian language version has no mention of it
       | being Russian. The English article doesn't elaborate further. At
       | first I thought the wiki page was vandalized but then I followed
       | one of the links and ended up finding a Russian game magazine of
       | the time where they mention the software for it was developed in
       | Russia.
        
         | alwayslikethis wrote:
         | I noticed this too. Thanks for digging this out! Maybe you
         | should put that sentence on both Wikipedias, so the next person
         | wouldn't be wondering about this!
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | I don't remember it ever being a thing in Russia. The first
         | time I've seen it was probably in an LGR video.
        
         | thriftwy wrote:
         | I still think it's too early to call it a Russian computer.
         | That's like calling Revolut a Russian bank.
         | 
         | I don't remember it ever being introduced in Russia.
        
       | koboll wrote:
       | I had both of these things. Loved CyLandia so much, nearly got
       | addicted to that game at one point. The only problem is I never
       | knew or even heard of a single other human being in real life who
       | had one...
        
       | guessbest wrote:
       | I was trying to cobble something together with an esp32 that
       | would make a handie talking that would allow text, voice and
       | image transfers on a p2p network that wouldn't have a range
       | longer than a house a way, but it is a slog.
       | 
       | Is there a modern equivalent to this or can an old android phone
       | be repurposed to do this? I was thinking that if the frequency
       | was shifted up to 2.4 GHz then a repurposed android device could
       | do all of this, but alas there aren't any projects of which I
       | have been able to find.
       | 
       | > US variant (Model No. CY44801) has frequency range of 902-928
       | MHz and European variant (Model No. CY44802) with frequency range
       | of 868-870 MHz
        
         | nanomonkey wrote:
         | There are several varieties of ESP32's combined with LoRa, such
         | as the disaster radio, meshtastic and ttgo t-beam. The last one
         | is probably the easiest bit of kit to get from Amazon and will
         | run the other's firmware.
        
         | eternityforest wrote:
         | Meshtastic sounds like what you want, but sending images over
         | LoRa is probably gonna clog the bandwidth and annoy people.
         | 
         | Also, there are many BLE based mesh apps like meshenger IIRC.
        
         | mynameisvlad wrote:
         | Those are the LoRa frequencies so you might have more luck
         | trying to get some modern LoRa gear communicating with it.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRa
        
           | tjohns wrote:
           | Those are the ISM frequencies, not specific to LoRa.
           | Basically an unlicensed wasteland of RF where anything goes,
           | as long as you stay below a certain transmit power level.
           | 
           | I guarantee this device (made in the the 90s) is completely
           | incompatible at the link layer with LoRa gear.
        
             | mynameisvlad wrote:
             | Some LoRa chips support multiple modulation types for non-
             | LoRa "legacy" applications.
             | 
             | My point is they use the same frequencies and would likely
             | be easier than upshifting to 2.4GHz and having an Android
             | device handle it. I didn't make any indication it would
             | Just Work(tm).
        
       | sigmaris wrote:
       | The ClockworkPi products, particularly uConsole, look like a
       | reasonable modern equivalent:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33331139
        
         | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
         | Those aren't nearly as cool looking although I'd still want
         | one. Unfortunately, these kinds of devices are more expensive
         | than they should be considering that they're marketed as
         | toys/experimental devices. Once you go over $100, it's more
         | cost effective to just pick up a cheap second-hand laptop
         | instead, though they're not pocketable and certainly a lot more
         | boring.
         | 
         | Also, it bugs me that the ClockworkPi seems to be RISC-V
         | powered - they should change the name for those and fully get
         | on the RISC-V bandwagon.
        
         | anthk wrote:
         | My zipitz2 costs far less and it was an amazing tiny serial
         | console (with an 80x25 cli with a tiny font) and a sdl2 based
         | GUI. I could emulate the NES, play nethack/slashem, IF, mp3,
         | join MUDs, connect to wifi to browse webs with lynx and links,
         | read epubs with a custom script with unzip and elinks...
        
           | Palomides wrote:
           | the zipit z2 cost (inflation-adjusted) around $225 in 2008,
           | more than the clockworkpi uconsole does today
        
             | anthk wrote:
             | I bought a second hand one by less than $50.
        
       | mrtksn wrote:
       | > Cybikos can communicate with each other up to a maximum range
       | of 100 meters (330 ft)
       | 
       | That was something I was hoping we will get on Apple Watch
       | walkie-talkie feature. Unfortunately the features depends on
       | having a stable internet connection and never worked for me
       | reliably.
       | 
       | The world needs more P2P.
        
         | eternityforest wrote:
         | It's amazing how P2P basically doesn't exist anywhere. Open
         | source got taken over completely by federated/self hosted, or
         | Blockchain.
         | 
         | Commerical stuff is all cloud based, for some reason (Even
         | surveillance doesn't explain it, you can put telemetry in
         | proprietary P2P apps)
         | 
         | We have really good long range Bluetooth and LoRa and yet there
         | is not one decent affordable alternative to decades old analog
         | FRS after all this time.
         | 
         | It's like devs want everything to fall apart the moment the
         | internet goes down.
        
           | danw1979 wrote:
           | I blame NAT.
           | 
           | I got online around 1994, behind a corporate firewall through
           | my Dad's work and it took me _ages_ to work out why no one
           | could reach my web server I was running on that machine,
           | despite getting all the DNS setup right.
           | 
           | I think that's when the penny dropped that the internet isn't
           | necessarily open; not everyone can reach everyone else.
           | 
           | NAT always meant there was something (fiddly port forwards,
           | or broken UPnP) in the way of a user publishing stuff from
           | their own machines.
           | 
           | You always had to have a web host - to rely on someone else's
           | computers - to publish your message. And so it continues.
        
             | narrator wrote:
             | Bittorrent was the only P2P system that solved all the
             | thorny NAT issues in a satisfactory way.
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | There are digital voice and message modes in the amateur
           | radio space. I've used dstar myself, yaesu fusion is common,
           | P25 and DMR are also a thing.
           | 
           | I've been tempted for a while to pick up one of these
           | Unihertz Atom XL's with DMR and analog FM transceivers built
           | in.
           | 
           | https://www.amazon.com/Unihertz-Smallest-Walkie-Talkie-
           | Smart...
        
           | nyolfen wrote:
           | check out hyperswarm/holepunch: https://docs.holepunch.to/
           | 
           | or urbit: https://urbit.org
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | I used it (Xtreme version) to chat with my now-wife during my
         | university graduation ceremony, as I sat on the stand and she
         | sat in the upper level audience seating.
         | 
         | It worked really well, and the chats managed to get me so
         | distracted that I got into the diploma line twice.
         | 
         | This and many other memories have me wishing I could use it
         | emulated somehow. It would be so funny to set it up on her
         | laptop and send a chat.
         | 
         | Thanks Cybiko!
        
       | imwillofficial wrote:
       | I used to want one of these so bad! But by the time I saved
       | enough, my young fickle heart was on to the next thing.
        
         | bdg wrote:
         | I got one when I was a kid, but wow was I disappointed when I
         | couldn't find a single connection to another device anywhere at
         | all.
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | Probably the experience of every eager eyed young nerd who
           | got one. Certainly was mine too.
        
           | progman32 wrote:
           | Yeah. I remember taking it on every single family trip for
           | years just hoping to catch a single packet. Never got one. Oh
           | well. I somehow got a replacement under warranty, they let me
           | keep the old broken unit. I set it up to work as a WAP
           | gateway (the issue wasn't fatal) and used it to mess about on
           | the early mobile internet, had a great time.
        
       | 0ut0flin3 wrote:
       | it's just amazing. I want one right now. it would be great to fix
       | it to send BTC transactions
        
       | Risse wrote:
       | Good video on demonstrating Cybiko
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojatBoMZubk
        
         | ClassyJacket wrote:
         | LGR also had a great one:
         | 
         | https://youtu.be/38VEBOseAzM
        
       | afloyd wrote:
       | I wonder if it would be possible to make a repeater for the
       | signal, perhaps over the internet
        
         | Mizza wrote:
         | They do act as repeaters! The mesh networking design was one of
         | the big selling points, it was going to be a city-wide teenage
         | mesh network!
         | 
         | Unfortunately, one acting as a repeater would take your range
         | from 10 feet to 20 feet.
        
           | afloyd wrote:
           | I more meant making a fake cybiko that would allow you to
           | communicate with someone in another city with another
           | repeater, connected over the internet.
        
             | newhouseb wrote:
             | You could configure a second Cybiko, hooked up to your
             | computer, to act as a gateway between an untethered Cybiko
             | and the internet. They teased a standalone device to do
             | this (CyWIG) but I don't think that ever actually shipped.
             | 
             | At one point I did set this up and managed to browse some
             | (terrible) WAP websites and I think I managed to get AIM
             | working somehow too. No memory as to if you could tunnel
             | through to do other wireless things with other bridged
             | Cybikos though as the setup was so clowny I had no other
             | friends to try it with.
        
               | indymike wrote:
               | They had the device for the Cybiko 2 but they were very
               | hard to get in the US.
        
             | indymike wrote:
             | On the Cybiko 2, there was a wifi card add on that allowed
             | you to do this. Unfortunately.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | Does anyone know what was the price at launch? Would be
       | interesting to compare it to the price of e.g. a handheld console
       | from the same time.
        
         | kyshoc wrote:
         | no citation, but I wanted one of these as a kid and remember
         | them being around $100-150 USD in the early 00s
        
           | tcmb wrote:
           | Yeah, the LGR video says they were USD 150 at launch in May
           | 2000 and 130 by the end of the year.
        
       | broast wrote:
       | This was my first big purchase in life, when I was 12. When i
       | brought it to school, I would discover the 2 other students who
       | also had a cybiko through its wireless network, and chat and play
       | games with them. It was really cool and a special club to be in.
        
       | 082349872349872 wrote:
       | Note all the comms! https://xkcd.com/2699/
        
       | kierenj wrote:
       | This was an exciting product for me! When I was 14 and learning
       | coding, I got excited about the Cybiko and started playing around
       | with grand ideas about games, apps and even an "RPG Kit" (rpg
       | builder) which I started to spec out on their forums.
       | 
       | As a result, Cybiko sent some units to me (in the UK) - before it
       | was released! This got little old me very excited.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, not only did it not take off, but I was 14 and had
       | all the enthusiasm and ideas without much of the ability to solve
       | the problems.
       | 
       | Still, very exciting at the time.. remember working with the
       | homebrew/hacking scene on IRC. Someone there was writing an
       | emulator, and I had fun with IDA Pro playing around with trying
       | to understand the firmware/BIOS dump.
       | 
       | The keyboard and stylus was pretty awful, and performance left a
       | lot to be desired..
       | 
       | EDIT: holy moly! I forgot I had an old website with projects from
       | that time. Well, here it is, warts and all:
       | http://greenprojects.iwarp.com/specialprojects/rpgkit/
        
       | ClassyJacket wrote:
       | LGR unsurprisingly did a great video on this device:
       | 
       | https://youtu.be/38VEBOseAzM
       | 
       | It's notable for being one of very few consumer devices featuring
       | mesh networking.
       | 
       | I have so much nostalgia for cool little bits of tech like this.
       | When I have a more permanent place to live I intend to start a
       | collection, mostly of videogame hardware, but including the odd
       | random tech device like this.
        
         | RobotToaster wrote:
         | I wonder if you could emulate the mesh protocol using SDR?
        
       | patwolf wrote:
       | I dug out my old Nintendo DSs and gave them to the kids. The fact
       | that the chat/drawing app could automatically link the DSs and
       | they could just start chatting blew me away. The kids actually
       | preferred using the DS over the switch. This reminds me a bit of
       | that.
       | 
       | I wish there was a _good_ simple modern-day device for kids to
       | use with this kind of capability without connecting to the
       | internet.
        
         | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
         | If your kids take a liking to it, replacing the LiPo cell is a
         | quick and easy hack to breathe new life intob it. Don't bother
         | buying replacement batteries, they're all trash, just harvest
         | the pcb from the old battery.
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-07 23:01 UTC)