[HN Gopher] The huge number of small breweries
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The huge number of small breweries
Author : lxm
Score : 26 points
Date : 2023-01-05 23:28 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
| bitexploder wrote:
| To me this is all very cool. If you are starting a brewery you
| have to have a laser focused business plan and ideas that will
| help you stand out. Your odds of making it big are low, but if
| that is a goal you should probably be aiming for that from the
| start. I love that small neighborhood breweries are a thing. No
| the universe doesn't really need your take on an IPA, but people
| who enjoy craft brew will often drink a local beer over another
| if it is good. If you get enough of a following, maybe try and
| package and distribute some, but I think being a cool local tap
| house is way easier in the current market than trying to package
| and distribute right away.
| tracerbulletx wrote:
| Yeah, the large variety is the feature that actually creates
| the value. The fact you can go to almost any new town and
| discover a new beer you've never heard of before is the joy of
| discovery and the "collection" drive that powers the industry.
| bombcar wrote:
| Yeah, there's no reason we need all our beer made in the
| massive piss factories of Milwaukee Wisconsin.
|
| Even if local beer X and the local beer Y from 50 miles away
| are basically the same from different breweries- why not?
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| Some people actually like lagers and don't want that fruity
| taste and smell that all ales have. Lagers are much more
| expensive to brew in terms of time and equipment and
| benefit from industrial scale.
|
| It is perfectly fine that I enjoy crisp piss and you like
| your fruitcake beers.
| Nursie wrote:
| Commercial lagers are brewed very fast. Real lagering is
| a long process, sure, but the big boys don't do any of
| that. They have a very fast turnaround, often less than a
| week.
|
| Enjoy your lager if you like, I do from time to time, but
| it's only one type of beer from a very wide spectrum. And
| don't kid yourself you're getting a cold-aged beer in the
| traditional style unless you've got evidence that's
| what's really happening.
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| Tank space and cooling costs the big boys very little
| because insulated factories and tanks the volume
| increases with the cube and the cost increases with the
| square. This is why lagers are made cheaply industrially,
| and ales can be made inexpensively on a much smaller
| scale.
|
| The premium light lagers are tanked for a month. Try to
| make anything resembling a light lager faster than that.
| They don't have some super secret method that no one
| knows about to make the style in a week. You are
| wholesale making that up.
| xtalx wrote:
| Most craft breweries make lagers and pilsners that are
| considerably better than "big beer." Local/craft beer
| doesn't exclusively produce IPAs, Fruited Sours, and
| Bourbon Barrel Aged Oatmeal stouts.
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| Craft lagers are out numbered 15:1 by ales because of the
| tank space and cooling required. The esterification
| reactions of ale yeasts are inherent to ales and the
| brewing temperature. All Ales smell fruity. This is
| really basic beer knowledge.
| xtalx wrote:
| That's fair, you clearly know more about beer than me. I
| mostly just drink them. I don't care for most lagers but
| a good one on a summer day is nice. I was just trying to
| make the point that you don't have to choose Budweiser
| over craft beer to get a lager. It's clear to me now that
| you already know that.
| nerdponx wrote:
| And more importantly, this is why there are a few craft
| lagers. It's not because they're too busy making IPAs,
| it's because lagers specifically aren't easy to do at
| smaller scale. There are plenty of craft ales that are
| not IPAs.
| Elora wrote:
| What exactly are we calling ales here, isn't ale just
| beer said another way (or, rather, the other way around)?
|
| Speaking of lagers, good ones are hard to come by these
| days. I like all things beer, and I enjoy all the IPAs,
| fruited sours and all that, BUT I also much, much enjoy
| quality lagers. As it is, in the US, it's rather hard to
| find good ones, all the mass market ones are horrible (I
| guess a Stella will work if that's absolutely the best
| you can do, but everything else is even lower in terms of
| quality).
|
| I'm in the ironic position that I actually whole-
| heartedly enjoy IPAs, but hate the IPA fad because it's
| (mostly, just due to the sheer size of the IPA market)
| keeping brewers from making good lagers. Can I have both
| please?
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| Ale yeast and lager yeast are the two different types of
| beer yeasts. There are a million lines of both, but ale
| yeast ferments in about a week at 70f and produces esters
| which have a fruity odor. Lager yeast operates at roughly
| 55f and takes a month to ferment. Lagers have little odor
| which some people like.
|
| To me, lagers are like a steak and ales are like chicken
| tikka. Both are good, and people preferring one or the
| other is reasonable. Due to tank and cooling
| requirements, lagers benefit from large scale production.
|
| Something like Sam Adams is a good lager to compare
| against an IPA. Just smell the difference and decide
| which you like.
| fknorangesite wrote:
| > isn't ale just beer said another way
|
| No. Ales are a subset of beers.
|
| > I hate the IPA fad because it's keeping brewers from
| making good lagers. Can I have both please?
|
| Yes, of course. Seeing this so much in this thread makes
| me feel like it's 2012 again. I travel a lot in North
| America and like to check out the local breweries when I
| do. There are always plenty of non-IPA options.
| dnissley wrote:
| Even more so than the beer itself, having a nice space for
| people to meet up is often the biggest source of value. I'm
| thinking of Optimism Brewing in Seattle, where the beer is
| extremely mediocre at best, but the atmosphere is big, open,
| and inviting.
| mac3n wrote:
| WSJ thinks we'd all be more efficiently served by a few very
| large breweries, all owned by InBev (Budweiser, Michelob, Stella
| Artois, Beck's)
| Waterluvian wrote:
| The article is critical of the quantity of microbreweries so it
| must be pro-big-beer because everything is a partisan
| conspiracy to slowly erode the things we like. Be afraid, be
| angry, and elect someone who promises a quick fix.
| bacchusracine wrote:
| WSJ probably drinks wine and thinks anyone drinking beer is
| part of the servant class.
| atyppo wrote:
| It's easy to dunk on the WSJ, but I doubt their writer is
| making that much money...
| ipqk wrote:
| but it's ok, because they're just a temporarily embarrassed
| millionaire.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| The world's most interesting wines are also made this way,
| though.
|
| It's a common bourgeois fetish to be all about Burgundy, but
| Burgundy is full of small acreage growers and producers and
| smaller co-ops.
|
| My father's family is in the Mainz, Rhineland area of Germany
| and when I've visited they've taken me out to the suburbs of
| Mainz where there's little small operations right in the
| middle of town serving it in their own little restaurants.
| supernova87a wrote:
| Interesting to me how different the beer vs. wine industries are,
| in terms of the capital investment, the "demographics" of the
| number and type of wineries vs. breweries, etc. Why wineries are
| always located right there next to the vines, but breweries are
| not. How long it takes the product to age, who consumes it, etc.
| How it gets to market. I know there are tons of reasons behind
| it, but just interesting that similar things you drink can have
| such different dynamics behind them.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| The "located next to the vines" thing is more of a new world
| thing ("estate winery"). As is the whole idea of a winery as a
| tourist destination you go visit. Here in Ontario this model is
| basically legislated into existence via minimum acreage
| requirements and regulations around winery retail stores.
|
| In the old world it's not always like this. Varies from region
| to region. In some places, the wine is made by small
| cooperative producers buying grapes from small growers etc.
|
| Even in the North American "estate winery" model, large
| quantities of the grapes are often bought from off-site
| independent growers who don't have a winery themselves.
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| > Why wineries are always located right there next to the
| vines, but breweries are not.
|
| I would have figured that is because grains can be stored for
| relatively long periods of time, while grapes cannot.
|
| Is there another reason??
| supernova87a wrote:
| No, exactly -- how one is a fresh fruit derived thing, the
| other is a stored grain thing. You don't find a lot of
| breweries in farming country. Are breweries mainly a city
| thing? Etc.
| plasticchris wrote:
| Recently a small brewery opened in my basement :) turns out home
| brew is better and easier than I thought. I had to keep telling
| myself people did this with wooden kegs and open fires, I can for
| sure do it with modern steel stuff.
| brenainn wrote:
| Any words of wisdom? Trying out homebrewing is one of my goals
| this year.
| plasticchris wrote:
| Don't buy glass carboys, anvil (blichmanns low cost brand) is
| good for equipment. Use a brewing calculator, start with
| extract, clean stuff well, and don't overcomplicate it. Don't
| make anything too strongly flavored, after 5 gallons you will
| hate it. 5 gallons is the best size for batches. Go straight
| for kegs (corny kegs) like they use for soda. Northern brewer
| is a good supplier (no affiliation just a happy customer). If
| you really get into it buy hops by the pound.
|
| Edit: almost forgot, temperature is the most important
| ingredient in fermenting. Put your kegs and fermenter
| somewhere that is a constant 60-70 degrees for ales. And
| start with ales.
| r053bud wrote:
| This is similar to how a lot of wine works in Europe. Tons of
| small producers typically making it for the love of the craft and
| keeping it in the family. I see this as a win.
| Nursie wrote:
| Trying new beers and supporting local breweries is the whole
| point! Endless variations and ideas.
|
| Here in Western Australia there are tons, and the only 'glut' to
| speak of is probably that the Hazy IPA market is saturated, and
| it can be difficult to find some other styles. Red Ales are well
| represented, and very sweet stouts. But a good dry Irish-style
| stout? A nice spicy saison? A little harder.
| zahma wrote:
| About 15 years ago, we had a great brewery that changed the game,
| and it felt like all of a sudden, there were so many options and
| relatively little difference between them. There are only so many
| IPAs with so many hops that a brewery can make. That got old
| quickly, but I still look fondly upon the days of cracking open a
| tall boy of Surly Furious.
|
| I threw up my hands and chose a brewery that was local and
| reliably high-quality, and I suspect many consumers will feel
| overwhelmed with choice and short on time to peruse the dozens of
| offerings at their beer purveyor. I wouldn't advise anyone to try
| to hop into that sector with dreams of making it big.
|
| The first movers got a great deal by tapping a fresh market and
| forming early consumer followings. Those days are over. Consumers
| don't need to have an allegiance to a microbrew because it's so
| easy to get now, and unless your brew is God's very own nectar,
| your business will be tenuous.
|
| Some of the biggest names sold out to The Enemy (i.e. AB InBev),
| like Goose Island or Wicked Weed. They got rich, and then their
| product went to shit. I'm fairly certain I got formaldehyde
| poisoning from a Devil's Backbone IPA bender (another AB InBev
| casualty). So in support of my body, please make great beer --
| just don't quit your day jobs.
|
| (Sorry for the two awful puns. I swear they were unintended but I
| left them in anyway after groaning.)
| cantSpellSober wrote:
| > _" The long-building craft-beer boom is showing signs of
| slowing down_"
|
| Do they provide any stats to back this up?
|
| > _" Highland Brewing Co. [...] has gone from a basement brewery
| to a hilltop 40-acre destination that produces more than 40,000
| barrels annually and generates around $15 million in revenue"_
|
| This statement appears to contradict the thesis...
|
| All suffered under COVID, these stats indicate a small dip in
| craft beer sales in 2020, but a rebound in 2021:
|
| https://www.brewersassociation.org/statistics-and-data/natio...
|
| https://www.statista.com/chart/10280/americas-brewery-boom/
| indymike wrote:
| I have no problem with widespread availability of great tasting,
| local beers. This is a feature, not a bug.
| viksit wrote:
| here to appreciate the punny title for a second :))
| micro_cam wrote:
| In my state we have a lot of breweries that essentially just
| operate as family friendly restaurants with bars. Like towns of a
| few thousand people have multiple breweries.
|
| It turns out liquor license laws make it much cheaper to open a
| tasting room that serves food then a restaurant that serves beer.
| Some can or bottle their beer but the business model can work
| fine without major distribution. So people open breweries instead
| of pizza parlors or steak houses.
| jimmyjazz14 wrote:
| North Carolina by chance?
| micro_cam wrote:
| Montana. Good to know there are other similar states though
| fknorangesite wrote:
| > In my state we have a lot of breweries that essentially just
| operate as family friendly restaurants with bars
|
| I'm in Canada, but yeah similar. The taproom might sell only a
| few snacks or something (or maybe get a local food truck to
| park outside), but people are also welcome to bring in outside
| food: many times I'd go with friends for drinks and then order
| a pizza or something delivered to the brewery.
| gnabgib wrote:
| Mostly due to our liquor laws (depends on province). But
| you're basically required to supply food if you vend alcohol.
| Bring your own food is the only way to satisfy this (or
| selling nuts/bags of chips/random trash at the counter..
| looking at you Cold Garden).
|
| When you first open, the cost of a kitchen, storage,
| utensils, and staff is a significant vig on top of your
| brewery costs if you're not sure how many visitors you'll
| get/whether they're looking for food.
| tomcam wrote:
| That scratches an old itch. I could not understand exactly the
| scenario you describe: small towns with multiple breweries.
| Never knew that loophole existed.
| NickBusey wrote:
| Eat local is a big movement. Drink local should be just as
| important to those who drink. It supports the local economy. It's
| more environmentally friendly. And the beer is usually way better
| to boot.
| spacemadness wrote:
| This smells like large breweries asking their financial
| journalist friends to start pushing back on small breweries
| eating into their margins. Dedicating an article to "are too
| many small breweries are a problem?" is a bit too convenient of
| a slant when other options are on the table. "Stop creating
| breweries, it's too risky. Drink InBev" essentially.
| bacchusracine wrote:
| >Drink InBev
|
| I will honestly quit drinking altogether first. I hate these
| big corpos who buy up what was a good brewer and a line with
| several good beers and immediately start changing the recipes
| and the process to destroy the beers. I've suffered through
| it too many times now to call it anything but malicious. What
| is the point in damaging an established brand, tarnishing an
| established product which will bring in money from people
| happy to pay for those flavors other than spite.
|
| In twenty plus years I've only seen a buyout happen once
| without it destroying the beers.
|
| No, if my only choices are the swill that companies like
| InBev produce I'll find something else to drink. It's about
| the flavor. Take that away and I'm gone and so are a lot of
| people.
| spacemadness wrote:
| I don't drink much anymore these days but I absolutely
| noticed this when they bought Goose Island a long time ago.
| The flavor changed overnight. They can't just buy everyone
| to quell indie beer geekdom once and for all but they sure
| continue to act like corporate bullies all the same.
| bacchusracine wrote:
| Goose Island was one of the examples I was thinking of. A
| shame. It really was an almost overnight change. And for
| what? To take a good series of beers and ruin them?
|
| As I said, I'm here for the flavors. Take those away and
| I leave with them.
| nerdponx wrote:
| Their goal is to make money.
|
| They believed, correctly, that at least some consumers
| wouldn't care about or even notice a change in recipe,
| maybe because people broadly associate Goose Island with
| good-quality craft beer and continue to buy it.
|
| Consider this model:
|
| Goose Island with the old recipe sold K units per year at
| $P profit per unit. The new recipe can sell K/l units per
| year at $Pxi, where l is the % of customers who switch
| away and i is the % increase in profit. If K x P < (K/l)
| x (Pxi) then it's profitable to switch to the new recipe.
| z2h-a6n wrote:
| While I'm all for drinking local beer, is there any available
| data on whether it's actually more environmentally friendly
| than beer made by larger producers? I can imagine some aspects
| of the brewing process that would tip the scales either way,
| e.g. economies of scale favoring large producers, potentially-
| shorter supply chains favoring small producers.
| anemoiac wrote:
| Why do we need global-scale conglomerates to produce our beer???
| I've always thought that local breweries serving locals should be
| the default, not an exception.
| robert2020 wrote:
| I thought we passed peak craft beer years ago. Guess not!
| atyppo wrote:
| Perhaps every brewery branching out from uninspired IPAs would
| help resolve the "issues of consumer selection." I get that
| they're easy to make and harder to screw up, but they're
| literally the only thing available at a lot of places.
| fknorangesite wrote:
| > they're literally the only thing available at a lot of
| places.
|
| I'm surprised to see this sentiment. It certainly rang true a
| decade+ ago, but back then craft breweries were more novel, and
| there was more [over]reaction to bland, mass-produced lagers,
| etc.
|
| Sours were really trendy rather than IPAs just pre-pandemic,
| and these days in my experience most places have a pretty
| varied selection of types available.
| atyppo wrote:
| I'm in NYC and my odds of finding a craft beer that isn't an
| IPA (or possibly sour) are slim to none if I'm not at a beer
| bar like Proletariat or Burp Castle (two random examples).
| I've managed to find one brewery I really like in New
| Hampshire called Schilling Beer Co that mostly focuses on
| European beers and has a really good food menu as well. It's
| a shame more places don't have more diverse beer menus.
| the_only_law wrote:
| Personally I'd like to see more stouts that aren't super
| heavy dessert stouts.
| bwanab wrote:
| I totally agree. There are so many good beer and ale styles. I
| love IPA, but please let's have some variety.
| iamben wrote:
| My brother works for an indy brewery in the UK. It's super hard
| work, but he loves the job. The industry is very tough and many
| of the independent players don't make it. Those who do are often
| swallowed by one of the big names or become everything they set
| out not to be (looking at you, Brewdog).
| chihuahua wrote:
| https://archive.ph/uOEBE
| jvolkman wrote:
| There are ~15 breweries within two miles of my house in Seattle.
| datavirtue wrote:
| Same in Cincinnati. Far more breweries than Starbucks...and we
| have a LOT of Starbucks.
| Overtonwindow wrote:
| If people are drinking then the breweries are making money... If
| people didn't buy the beer, the breweries wouldn't exist.
| tialaramex wrote:
| For legal reasons it can make more sense to operate a brewery
| than it might do all else being equal.
|
| In the UK for example, suppose I think this district of my city
| could use an establishment where people can buy booze in the
| evening, relax, maybe buy a meal, even listen to some live
| music once in a while, and I have my eye on a mid-size
| industrial unit in a fairly populated part of town with few
| nearby rivals. Easy right?
|
| Nope, that unit is not authorised for this purpose, and all
| three things I want to do (sell booze, sell food, live
| entertainment) require licenses issued by local government. I'm
| going to spend a _lot_ of money on lawyers and fixers to smooth
| the path to making this happen, and at any time there might be
| objections which blow it up completely, no refunds.
|
| But, if I'm setting up a _brewery_ well, that 's an authorised
| purpose of an industrial unit, and under modern laws the
| brewery is allowed to sell booze. So now I can open, initially
| I cut a deal with a decent local food truck to park "outside"
| and piggyback on their food license, then if we stay afloat for
| a few months with no major incidents I apply for a license
| variation to offer food on site too, with historical practice
| on my side. I can have the same successful business, but at
| much lower risk by starting a "brewery" even if brewing booze
| barely breaks even.
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