[HN Gopher] Moonwalkers: Shoes that make you walk faster (pre-or...
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       Moonwalkers: Shoes that make you walk faster (pre-order)
        
       Author : saikatsg
       Score  : 238 points
       Date   : 2023-01-05 18:40 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (shiftrobotics.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (shiftrobotics.io)
        
       | tipsytoad wrote:
       | Can I state the obvious? They look dumb as hell
        
         | gadflyinyoureye wrote:
         | Hell does not look dumb. It's either terrifying or medieval
         | cool. Just look at Metal album covers.
        
         | aussieshibe wrote:
         | Why is that obvious? They look cool to me.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | I used to make fun of Crocs. Now I have one pair for garden.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | thot_experiment wrote:
       | Odds of this company being relevant are nil. If this product ever
       | becomes popular it will be because of a $300 chinese knockoff.
       | However I very much doubt that it will be able to overcome the
       | cultural association of sillyness and the aesthetic disaster that
       | is "rolly-sandals with shoes".
        
         | tduberne wrote:
         | Re looking silly, I am not so sure. Only 10 years ago no one
         | would have expected adults to proudly navigate the city on
         | flashy colored elwctric kick scooters, and yet look at any big
         | (european?) city nowadays. Even investment bankers in tailor-
         | made suits move on those abominations as if it was the next
         | lamborghini.
         | 
         | I actually find them quite attractive as a means to access my
         | local train station: easier to take with me than a bike or kick
         | scooter, apparently much safer than rollerblades or skateboard.
         | Just not for that price, but let's give it a few years to see
         | if it takes on.
        
           | croes wrote:
           | Wasn't the selfie stick in a book about useless inventions?
        
             | pmontra wrote:
             | Not useless but it went extinct in my part of the world. I
             | can't remember when I saw one in Europe. People shot
             | selfies with their arms again. Is it still a thing
             | somewhere else?
        
         | csharpminor wrote:
         | Aesthetic taste and fashion are hard to predict; people said
         | the same thing of Crocs. In fact, many workplaces banned Crocs
         | because they were considered so aesthetically offensive. Crocs,
         | Inc. is up 725% over its lifetime.
         | 
         | People are really into weird shoes right now (see pretty much
         | all of sneakerhead culture). I could see this taking off if
         | partnered with the right influencer and offered at about
         | $500-$600.
         | 
         | On Chinese knockoffs: yes, this is a danger with nearly any
         | product made today. If they achieve brand prominence then the
         | risk will be mitigated. Their apparent moat seems to be making
         | walking feel natural. This may be temporarily difficult to
         | reverse engineer and give them some lead time.
        
         | alexb_ wrote:
         | For everyday use, maybe. For someone whos job requires them to
         | walk along flat surfaces all day, this could be a worthy
         | investment for a company to make.
        
           | RajT88 wrote:
           | UPS and similar companies might invest. Companies with big
           | warehouses.
           | 
           | I'm skeptical Amazon would.
        
         | RajT88 wrote:
         | Agree. Especially considering that rollerskates and
         | rollerblades kind of already fulfill this function (just are
         | bulkier, and take more skill to use, but honestly are easy
         | enough to learn) and people don't usually use those for
         | commuting in urban areas.
         | 
         | That said, when I lived in Chicago, I used to see a lady who
         | rollerbladed to the office. I am sure you're thinking, "Young
         | techie, jeans & t-shirt", but you'd be wrong. 40's or late
         | 30's, dressed like an exec. Wearing a dress, make-up, string of
         | pearls, with a fancy handbag, nice haircut. I don't think this
         | is a relevant data point (clearly an outlier), I just thought
         | it was awesome and wanted to share.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | > That said, when I lived in Chicago, I used to see a lady
           | who rollerbladed to the office.
           | 
           | I used to skateboard from a lot by the Metra station to the
           | office @ State and Madison.
           | 
           | Most fellow commuters I encountered were visibly bothered by
           | sharing the walkways with someone adult-sized traveling 2-3X
           | their speed. I'd expect a similar level of antisocial
           | friction with these shoes.
           | 
           | Though it has been well over a decade since I did that, maybe
           | people have since warmed up to sharing sidewalks with
           | ebikes/scooters by now.
        
           | zanecodes wrote:
           | From personal experience, Chicago is kind of both the best
           | case and the worst case for rollerblading: it's very flat and
           | has nice wide sidewalks, but the sidewalks and even the
           | streets are pretty rough and require large wheels for a
           | smooth ride.
           | 
           | Having a good amount of reasonably well maintained dedicated
           | bike lanes would have made rollerblading to work a lot
           | easier!
        
             | RajT88 wrote:
             | Totally agree. I biked around the streets, and it's tough.
             | Bike lanes are somewhat respected by drivers, and somewhat
             | respected by people parking on the street, which in
             | aggregate makes them not all that well respected...
             | 
             | People get creamed on bikes all the time in bike lanes.
             | Pedestrians on the sidewalks and bike paths just don't pay
             | attention to anything other than what is 3-4 feet from
             | them, and are always forcing you to dodge if you have any
             | kind of speed if you're just even jogging.
             | 
             | It's more a cultural problem than a city planning problem.
             | Contrast how seriously bike lanes are treated in (say)
             | Munich, which is very seriously.
        
             | selectodude wrote:
             | Chicago's pavement will always be in difficult shape due to
             | the climate and, more importantly, the incredible amounts
             | of road salt used to keep the roads ice-free.
             | 
             | I am seeing more and more e-bikes though, which, since you
             | can keep up with traffic relatively well, allow you ride in
             | the car lane under most circumstances. That's what I do,
             | and if some dickhead really feels the need to pass me when
             | I'm going >25mph, I'll give them a wave at the next light.
             | And probably be shot in the chest one of these days.
        
               | tomcam wrote:
               | That last sentence was absolutely wonderful and caused me
               | to do a spit take
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | I wonder where the break-even point hits that it becomes
               | cheaper to plumb hot water pipes or electrified heating
               | elements under better-built sidewalks than to resurface
               | every year.
        
               | zanecodes wrote:
               | Quite a bit of the Inner Loop in Chicago actually already
               | has heated sidewalks, if the "Mechanically Heated"
               | plaques on them are to be believed.
        
         | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
         | It might be a viable product industrially, eg pickers working
         | in large warehouses or similar. But it has to be actually
         | better than just a basic Lime style electric scooter.
        
         | williamdclt wrote:
         | That's expressing a lot of confidence for something that I
         | assume you don't know much about?
         | 
         | I've repeatedly looked for this exact product in the past,
         | "wheel-augmented shoes", for my 10-to-30 minutes travels (to
         | the shop, to the public transportation, to a friend's...). So
         | as anecdata, I would absolutely be interested in this: maybe
         | not at $1400 but I'd certainly pay a few hundreds.
         | 
         | > cultural association of sillyness and the aesthetic disaster
         | that is "rolly-sandals with shoes".
         | 
         | I don't know how many "that's what was said of Airpods" are
         | needed for this argument to die. Actually, I'm much less
         | weirded out by these shoes than I was of airpods, I don't find
         | them silly at all
        
           | time_to_smile wrote:
           | > I don't know how many "that's what was said of Airpods" are
           | needed for this argument to die
           | 
           | Apple has always been the exception that proves the rule in
           | the types of cases. Very, very few companies are able to
           | create demand rather than merely satisfying it.
           | 
           | On top of that only experience with Airpods is as the current
           | gen teenage reality blockers and older people screaming
           | through static about how they must have run theirs through
           | the wash.
        
           | occamsrazorwit wrote:
           | It's probably because the aesthetic here is relatively bland,
           | and sandals are an existing form-factor of shoe. Airpods are
           | aggressively sleek and white, and they sit in a weird uncanny
           | valley of accessory and tool. Technically, wired earbuds have
           | the same hanging-stem, but everyone's used to them, so no one
           | notices them.
           | 
           | As to the aesthetics, I'm sure people thought the same of all
           | types of bicycles. Penny-farthings used to be the cultural
           | norm, and people still ride less-common forms like small-
           | wheel and recumbent bicycles.
        
       | laserlight wrote:
       | Spoiler: You have to watch 30 seconds of history of humanity BS
       | to see how the thing actually works.
        
       | standardUser wrote:
       | How fast is the "walking" speed with these? Is it significantly
       | faster than just walking really fast?
        
         | HN_is_for_gemes wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | tomtheelder wrote:
         | Says top speed of 7mph. So that's like an ~8.5 minute mile
         | pace, which is a pretty fast jog or a slow run. About double
         | the average walking speed.
         | 
         | They don't say if you can sustain that though.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | I saw a 5 mile range listed elsewhere; not sure if that's at
           | top-speed though.
        
       | jollyllama wrote:
       | I'm picturing people crashing into each other
        
         | wiseleo wrote:
         | It's not that bad. I crashed into other people regularly while
         | playing roller soccer. It feels like a bump at slow speeds.
        
       | dsalzman wrote:
       | Motor Roller Skates - Early Personalized Transportation For Each
       | Foot 1906
       | 
       | https://theoldmotor.com/?p=139342
       | 
       | People have always been in a hurry
        
       | mikrl wrote:
       | Couldn't resist the shitpost:
       | 
       |  _put on shoes_
       | 
       |  _start running_
       | 
       |  _crash and burn, shoes explode in a fireball_
       | 
       | Shift Robotics QA team: _shocked pikachu_
        
       | syx wrote:
       | As a passionate rollerblader who's been practising for over 10
       | years, I've lost count of the multiple attempts at reinventing
       | shoes with wheels, maybe people should just learn how to skate?
       | :)
        
       | furyofantares wrote:
       | It's not something I'd be an early adopter on, nor do I expect
       | the first company to do something like this has a huge likelihood
       | of success, but I'm certainly excited to see people working on
       | more minimal mobility options.
        
         | libraryatnight wrote:
         | Yeah, these feel like the things you read about when you read
         | about the history of some other accepted and much used piece of
         | technology. Some useful things are born of ambitious
         | monstrosities.
        
       | rcarr wrote:
       | If you want to walk faster, start rucking. If you get used to
       | walking with a weighted backpack on regularly, you will be rapid
       | without one. It also has the added benefit that you don't look
       | like an extra from Nathan Barley.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZptMIcdCcpI
        
       | omginternets wrote:
       | Call me old-fashioned, but I'd rather walk slowly than look like
       | a tool.
       | 
       | (To say nothing of the invasive rent-seeking that others have
       | noted.)
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | gibolt wrote:
       | The shoes are around 4lbs each. I wonder how much of that is the
       | battery and if you couldn't get them to more negligible weight
       | with a connected/worn battery.
        
         | carb wrote:
         | Compared to the weight of the user, does the weight of the
         | shoes matter? And would a worn battery help longevity vs built-
         | in given that it still contributes to the total weight of the
         | user+shoe?
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | Position of the weight on the body might make a difference to
           | comfort. OTOH, so would cabling.
        
       | wiseleo wrote:
       | They are safer than scooters. Scooters are too vulnerable to road
       | imperfections. A pebble can send you flying. They're on my
       | wishlist now. :)
        
         | defterGoose wrote:
         | Unless these have independent suspension per wheel, they're
         | going to suffer the same problem. Best way to increase pebble-
         | stop resistance is to increase wheel diameter and compliance;
         | ala scooter.
        
       | UncleOxidant wrote:
       | Looks cool. But not $1400 cool.
        
       | thelock85 wrote:
       | At the price point and unique function, the first thing I
       | compared these to are Yeezys, Balenciaga sneakers, and rare
       | Jordan colorways. I think if that if the sneaker status culture
       | accepts these (not saying they will) then the company will have a
       | real chance at breaking into the consumer shoe market (not sure
       | that's their goal?).
       | 
       | Alternatively, I'm wondering who's walking around all day in
       | their job function and if there is some type of ROI on equipping
       | them with shoes like these.
        
       | ss48 wrote:
       | Wired made a video of it here,
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4CHWulnDs that gave a good idea
       | of what it's like using them.
        
         | iLoveOncall wrote:
         | Wow they make a huge amount of noise when moving, just that is
         | a deal breaker for me to be honest.
        
         | bwag wrote:
         | I was wondering how they could traverse rough terrain like
         | gravel. That video explains how the overlapping wheels makes
         | that possible. Why not go with a "tank tread" type design?
         | Maybe in a future hiking version.
        
         | odysseus wrote:
         | Good overview. $1400+tax though, wow. That "speed walker" he
         | was racing against really looked like he was running ...
        
           | notJim wrote:
           | $1400 doesn't seem that bad for the very first product of
           | this type compared to other e-mobility stuff. E-bikes can
           | cost around that price point (and way more of course) and
           | they're a mature category. Scooters are much cheaper of
           | course, but again, this is the first product of this type.
        
           | Spivak wrote:
           | As long as both feet aren't in the air at the same time it's
           | walking.
        
           | gamegoblin wrote:
           | The main thing that separates speed walking ("race walking")
           | from running is that you must always have a point of contact
           | with the ground.
           | 
           | That said, I've seen some articles of high speed video taken
           | of pro race walkers and basically all of them have tiny
           | moments where both feet are off the ground. Just not
           | egregious enough for a referee to detect.
           | 
           | In general, seems like a really contrived sport, but to each
           | his own...
        
             | bumby wrote:
             | Speed walking looks like "I need to find a restroom,
             | pronto" walking
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | Walter White has real opinions on people who lift their
             | feet off the ground:
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/JVBN7NAIrfg
        
               | gcanyon wrote:
               | I once read an interview with a writer/producer on
               | Malcolm who said early on they realized there wasn't
               | _anything_ Bryan Cranston wouldn 't do. They specifically
               | tried to come up with things for Hal to do to challenge
               | Cranston, and he never said no.
        
           | colordrops wrote:
           | I think it's technically walking as long as one foot is
           | always on the ground.
        
             | gcanyon wrote:
             | There are other requirements: the lead knee has to be
             | straight from the moment the foot touches the ground to
             | when the knee passes under the body. (or something like
             | that)
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | Yeah it was impressive. The reviewer was comfortable very
         | quickly and was able traverse real city streets without
         | incident. It looks a really clever design.
        
       | sirtimbly wrote:
       | "Urban mobility" is such a rich vein for startups, it makes me
       | think living in a city is pretty awful.
        
       | moneywoes wrote:
       | How does this effect gait or ergonomics
        
       | modzu wrote:
       | rollerskates seem better?
        
       | d2049 wrote:
       | Reminds me of Paul Graham's essay about why the Segway failed.
       | http://www.paulgraham.com/segway.html
       | 
       | Same principle here. People don't look cool wearing strange robot
       | sandal shoes.
        
         | trekkie1024 wrote:
         | Isn't that what people said about the first AirPods? They look
         | dorky, no one would be caught wearing them, etc. And look where
         | we are now :)
        
           | randomluck040 wrote:
           | This is comparing Apple (out of all companies) selling
           | something we were using prior to the AirPods for a price
           | which was in an acceptable range for the target audience with
           | a dorky kinda-add-on for shoe to walk faster. I'm not sure if
           | it holds.
        
             | trekkie1024 wrote:
             | That's a reasonable point... what would you say is a price
             | (if any) at which you could see these become mainstream?
             | I'm personally ambivalent on the design but think the
             | product could be worth trying!
        
               | randomluck040 wrote:
               | I'm not sure since I can't quite figure out the target
               | audience. Depending on the amounts a person walks every
               | day it might be worth it but I'm on the bike or in the
               | metro most of the time and the claimed 250% increase in
               | speed doesn't come close to the bicycle. That being said,
               | I'd try them for sure and if they improve my life, I
               | think I could live with the design. On a related note:
               | people were Yeezy and Balenciaga shoes which (subjective)
               | look awful to me.
        
           | JumpCrisscross wrote:
           | > _what people said about the first AirPods?_
           | 
           | Did they?
           | 
           | My reading is people are parsimonious with paradigms.
           | Graham's motorcycle draws on the horse. AirPods drew on
           | earbuds, which almost universally went to great lengths to
           | avoid the hearing-aid look, and which also got a boost from
           | performers [1].
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-ear_monitor
        
             | osrec wrote:
             | But they still looked terrible. I still don't like how they
             | look.
        
         | LarryMullins wrote:
         | Are they comfortable? Crocs (those plastic foam sandals) are
         | notoriously unfashionable, but also incredibly popular because
         | they're comfortable.
         | 
         | Tbh they don't look very comfortable, I imagine they're heavy
         | like roller skates, but who knows.
        
           | iLoveOncall wrote:
           | Crocs became popular recently but for a decade or so you
           | would be made fun of by ANYONE if you wore them.
           | 
           | It seems that the company survived long enough for them to
           | become popular, but that's not the case with a lot of
           | products (Google Glasses is an example I have in mind).
           | 
           | Having a great product at the wrong time is having a bad
           | product.
        
             | LarryMullins wrote:
             | > _Crocs became popular recently but for a decade or so you
             | would be made fun of by ANYONE if you wore them._
             | 
             | I believe they were selling like hotcakes that entire time.
             | Popular but unfashionable, like cargo shorts.
        
               | atdrummond wrote:
               | Company almost went under for a time:
               | https://socialfactor.com/blog/how-crocs-came-back-from-
               | the-b...
        
             | wyre wrote:
             | Crocs became fashionable shortly after they released a
             | $1200 collaboration with fashion house Balenciaga, but
             | there is also high correlation with the popularity of crocs
             | and the proliferation of chunky sneakers and silhouettes.
             | Fashion is cyclical and Crocs were able to create an iconic
             | and affordable product and lasted long enough for the
             | fashion cycle to reach them.
             | 
             | Interestingly, Balenciaga released a collaboration with
             | Vibram Five-Fingers and to little surprise toe shoes are
             | still unfashionable (although more acceptable now than when
             | I wore a pair a decade ago I think).
        
       | green-salt wrote:
       | Was mildly interested until the price. They need to reel that in
       | a bit if they want to appeal to more of an audience.
        
       | mrguyorama wrote:
       | It's so stupid how much they scream "They aren't skates!!!" while
       | all their demo gifs are definitely people treating them as you
       | would a skate.
       | 
       | Goes to show you how much of this is marketing crap instead of
       | focusing on the actual product.
        
         | r_singh wrote:
         | Man, this is so true. They're electronic, stabilised version of
         | skates.
         | 
         | I can't believe I didn't think of this before reading the
         | above.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | lm28469 wrote:
       | I love the current state of startups/capitalism, it's impossible
       | to tell if a product is a satire, a joke, a scam to raise
       | investors money and disappear, an AI generated product coupled
       | with AI generated images and text, &c.
        
       | avereveard wrote:
       | and pebbles, their most dangerous enemy
        
       | skykooler wrote:
       | This seems like a much better engineering solution then my
       | current project, which is a pair of motorized Heelys.
        
       | ur-whale wrote:
       | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/shiftmoonwalkers/moonwa...
        
       | scotty79 wrote:
       | I think the aim of this company is to be bought out by Amazon
       | with all stock and production capacity. After that a single unit
       | won't see the consumer before everybody in fulfillment centers
       | has these on their feet.
        
         | fleshdaddy wrote:
         | My concern is this could probably be a major liability.
         | Strapping all your employees to electric roller skates that
         | make them move faster seems like it could be a recipe for
         | disaster if someone takes a spill at high speed. Especially
         | since a jury would take one look at those things and see
         | something closer to x games equipment than like "enterprise
         | mobility device".
        
           | eddsh1994 wrote:
           | 7mph isn't exactly a 'high speed' and a 3 meter breaking
           | distance is better than running
        
       | lesuorac wrote:
       | Do they make these without the motors?
       | 
       | I honestly wouldn't mind some rollerskates I just strap onto a
       | shoe.
        
       | tristor wrote:
       | This concept is interesting to me, but I don't think I'm the
       | target market because I'm already a fast walker and walk more
       | than 5 miles on a daily basis. Most of the time, I am making
       | effort to slow my walking speed so others can keep up when in a
       | group, rather than speeding myself up. I like the idea though,
       | and if this takes off I could see it being helpful for a lot of
       | people.
        
       | petarb wrote:
       | Reminds me of Wheelies when we were kids
        
         | barathr wrote:
         | Yeah, this seems like something that is cheap and low-tech that
         | does close to the same thing. And a wheel in the heel allows
         | for more control for the wearer with fewer things that can go
         | wrong.
        
           | pacaro wrote:
           | Heelys are fun -- I got a pair when my kid got a pair -- but
           | they have a couple of drawbacks, they are very fussy about
           | surface quality, not great with slopes, and impose a
           | significant heel, which impacts posture and walking geometry
           | (almost all my other shoes are zero drop, so this is very
           | noticeable to me)
        
         | mhb wrote:
         | Heelys perhaps?
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Did you mean Heelys[1]?
         | 
         | 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heelys
        
       | harshaw wrote:
       | My parents aren't too excited about using motorized scooters but
       | have limited mobility due slow pace and/or joint pain. Could be
       | an avenue for letting them be more mobile.
       | 
       | EDIT: a Pittsburgh /CMU project! fantastic.
        
         | BadCookie wrote:
         | Yeah, I wish they would address whether the shoes are
         | appropriate for taking a slow/disabled walker up to average
         | walking speeds. But if they explicitly addressed that use case,
         | then the shoes might become a "medical device" and run into
         | regulatory issues. I'm not sure...
        
         | alostpuppy wrote:
         | That is a really good point. Hadn't considered that.
        
       | LastTrain wrote:
       | Is there a YC connection to these or is there a joke I'm missing
       | or something?
        
       | kornhole wrote:
       | Looks like a great engineering effort. Electric skates are for
       | the same niche who would buy electric bikes. I want to keep my
       | legs strong and keep the points of potential failure fewer.
        
       | egypturnash wrote:
       | Huh. If they make it down to a few hundred bucks with no history
       | of them exploding/unexpectedly accelerating or stopping/etc then
       | maybe I'll get some for a break from biking everywhere. I dunno
       | how well they'd cope with New Orleans streets and sidewalks,
       | though.
        
         | flanbiscuit wrote:
         | Their video just below the big hero section (see direct link
         | below) mentions it being able to handle "roughest urban
         | terrain, from cracked sidewalks to gravel". I visit New Orleans
         | yearly (friends live there) and walk a lot around mid-city. I
         | feel like they are viable but I'd love to see them in action to
         | know for sure.
         | 
         | Direct link to where it starts talking about the different
         | terrain it can handle: https://youtu.be/8r0TPD5NUQ0?t=166
        
       | geeky4qwerty wrote:
       | One of the unique beauties of aging is getting to witness the
       | rhyming of history.
       | 
       | ~40 years ago it was roller skates ~30 years ago it was roller
       | blades ~20 years ago it was roller shoes ~10 years ago we began
       | to see the wide adoption of battery powered personal
       | transporating devices
       | 
       | sidenote: Anyone else notice the twice mention of Tesla in the
       | promo video?
        
         | pohl wrote:
         | The mentions of Tesla jumped out at me. It was kind of jarring,
         | since the brand doesn't have the cachet it did only a few
         | months ago. I wonder if they were re-shooting the video today
         | if they'd still mention it.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ComputerGuru wrote:
       | The video voiceover is terrible quality with terrible
       | enunciation. Great production values otherwise demand that a
       | better voice actor w/ better recording equipment should have been
       | used.
        
       | bmer wrote:
       | How safe is this for knees, ankles, and hips?
        
       | 988747 wrote:
       | This thing would work equally well without any engine or
       | batteries - it's called "roller-skates", and has been there for
       | over a century.
        
         | wiseleo wrote:
         | I disagree as a proficient skater. I can do various street
         | style tricks and play roller soccer as well as dance. Their
         | innovation is the stacked wheels to mimic the contact patch of
         | a much larger wheel. They give you similar ability to traverse
         | road imperfections as a tracked vehicle. I have fallen victim
         | to small rocks despite being an expert skater.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | A skateboard works great too for moving faster around town, and
         | is pretty fun to use as well.
        
         | throwaway920102 wrote:
         | The muscles you engage and the effort required in skating are
         | entirely different.
        
           | sanjayio wrote:
           | Not to mention the level of skill required and time to
           | achieve that skill.
        
       | gghffguhvc wrote:
       | I don't get all the negativity.
       | 
       | Price will come down.
       | 
       | - I can think of lots of jobs that employers would love their
       | staff to move faster.
       | 
       | - I like how these could make public transport commuting faster
       | between home and transport and transport and destination.
       | 
       | - I like the way they don't replace the shoe
        
         | ActorNightly wrote:
         | They also don't offer really any value.
         | 
         | Compare this to a simple foldable electric scooter. It allows
         | you get to places much faster, and has similar attributes in
         | terms of things you do outside of commuting, is way cheaper and
         | more reliable.
         | 
         | For the hyper-optimization of walking in crowded places at a
         | slightly elevated pace, you basically have to convince someone
         | that spending x amount of money instead of leaving x minutes
         | earlier is worth it, and that x has to be in the range of play
         | money for an average person, because the latter is free.
         | 
         | In general, if you are pushing a product that isn't relying on
         | lifestyle marketing, or isn't radical new technology, the
         | product needs to be an optimization on something existing, and
         | when considering what it optimizes, you need to look at an
         | entire picture, not just the particular item.
        
           | killerpopiller wrote:
           | there are plenty use cases where those shoes help, e.g. vast
           | offices. In Germany, manual scooters are not allowed for
           | safety reasons.
        
           | plonq wrote:
           | Scooters requires use of your hands. I can see potential for
           | these for when you need to keep your hands free for
           | activities.
        
           | LarryMullins wrote:
           | > _They also don 't offer really any value._
           | 
           | Tell Amazon it will make their warehouse workers walk faster?
           | Half joking.
        
             | iLoveOncall wrote:
             | And Amazon will tell you that they'd rather build a new
             | robotic warehouse rather than buy millions of weird shoes
             | that cost a grand a pop.
             | 
             | Amazon also mandates anti-slip boots for warehouse workers
             | (and paid for them), and this is literally the contrary of
             | an anti-slip shoe.
        
           | throwaway4aday wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure people made the same argument about electric
           | scooters when they first came out. People will buy these just
           | for fun the same way they buy all the other silly modes of
           | transport. Honestly I think these look way more fun than say
           | rollerblades for example. I don't think everyone is going to
           | use them but they will for sure have a market. No sense in
           | being cranky about a cool product just because it doesn't
           | suit your taste or wallet.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | Karrot_Kream wrote:
           | Scooters are hard to balance with. I love my e-scooter. My
           | partner has a bad sense of balance and she's fallen off her
           | e-scooter and hurt herself (nothing bad, just bruises and
           | cuts) before. She prefers to ride the bike. According to the
           | video anyway, this looks like it's a lot easier to balance
           | with. Scooters are also heavy. Most men have enough upper
           | body strength to lift scooters, but a lot of others don't. My
           | partner has a hard time lifting up the e-scooter above
           | certain heights.
        
           | manmal wrote:
           | I could easily enter public transport with these, that's not
           | always the case with scooters where I live. Scooters are also
           | quite heavy and can hit things while carrying them around. I
           | don't consider scooters suitable for my commute, and they
           | haven't really gotten the adoption from commuters they should
           | have if they were that good.
        
             | Karrot_Kream wrote:
             | (Sorry for the tangent.)
             | 
             | Are the spaces tight enough around you where the scooter is
             | inconvenient? I didn't expect e-scooters to become as
             | popular as they did where I live but they've taken the area
             | by storm, and it seems especially strong among the crowd
             | that still commutes.
        
               | manmal wrote:
               | Yes I think spaces are just too tight, people would
               | constantly bump each other. Or often there's just not
               | enough space to stow a scooter.
        
         | bfeynman wrote:
         | I can guarantee you that this doesn't work well on anything
         | other than perfectly cleared sidewalks and freshly paved roads.
         | 
         | Could not imagine workplace lawsuits that will happen when
         | someone falls and alleges shoe was at fault.
         | 
         | Seems cool, not worth the hassle .
        
           | gghffguhvc wrote:
           | Wired journalist using them on potholed roads.
           | https://youtu.be/qe4CHWulnDs?t=223
           | 
           | He was impressed with how well they work on bad surfaces.
        
             | avereveard wrote:
             | love all the cuts on that section of the video, absolutely
             | nothing fishy happening in between.
        
               | okasaki wrote:
               | Seems like typical youtube editing...
        
               | gghffguhvc wrote:
               | On second viewing I agree that is pretty dodgy.
        
               | spiderice wrote:
               | Yeah the cut right at 3:58 when he is about to step in to
               | the pothole is pretty suspect. It shows immediately
               | before and immediately after. Can't think of a reason
               | they would cut it that way unless they're intentionally
               | trying not to show it.
        
             | bfeynman wrote:
             | also listening to how rickety it is, probably not so great
             | for your knees.
        
           | fasthands9 wrote:
           | I think there are probably warehouse settings where a product
           | like this (assuming it worked) would be valuable. These
           | places are going to be mostly flat predictable floors anyway.
           | If you can reduce the amount of man hours needed that saves
           | on labor as well other health related costs.
           | 
           | Though perhaps by the time tech will work full scale robotics
           | would be able to replace most of these workers anyway.
        
             | Baeocystin wrote:
             | We used beach cruiser bicycles at the shipyard. Worked
             | great, no app or electronics required!
        
               | a4isms wrote:
               | Way back in the early 80s when I worked in a bicycle
               | store, we used to sell adult tricycles to Air Canada. The
               | aircraft mechanics had a choice between golf carts and
               | tricycles for getting around, but the trikes were popular
               | because so many of them grew overweight and had health
               | issues from being extremely sedentary.
               | 
               | Riding around on a trike let them get across big hangers
               | quickly, carry tools and small parts comfortably, and
               | give them a moderate amount of exercise every day.
        
             | trynewideas wrote:
             | 2023 headline: "Amazon warehouse union files complaint
             | after mandatory not-skates collision breaks picker's leg,
             | causes concussion"
        
             | JumpCrisscross wrote:
             | > _warehouse settings_
             | 
             | Conference and trade shows.
        
         | gibolt wrote:
         | Batteries and efficient, small electric motors are enabling so
         | many unique form factors.
         | 
         | Objects like this fill lots of niches, and should be exciting
         | even if you aren't the target demographic.
         | 
         | Clever transmissions like this could work in lots of use cases
         | that weren't previously possible.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | kekkidy wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | wnolens wrote:
         | It's just _so much_ engineering for such marginal benefit over
         | alternatives. I can contrive a use-case where this is better,
         | but I have to contrive it.
        
           | christkv wrote:
           | A log European cities have banned scooters from the sidewalk.
           | This would not have that limit and would mean less risk than
           | riding with the cars on a scooter.
        
             | wnolens wrote:
             | This would have whatever limit that rollerblades/skates
             | would have.
        
             | mcguire wrote:
             | Those same cities will start banning these when people
             | wearing them start running into pedestrians.
        
         | JustSomeNobody wrote:
         | > - I can think of lots of jobs that employers would love their
         | staff to move faster.
         | 
         | I hear they're just going to use riding crops instead.
        
       | JustSomeNobody wrote:
       | So... I'm curious, how do these fail? Let's say an axle or motor
       | fails, does the wheel spin or lock up? Which would be better for
       | making sure I don't break my nose on the pavement?
        
       | nprateem wrote:
       | Shift robotics. I'm sure these will soon be known as shit shoes.
        
       | Fricken wrote:
       | With an electric skateboard you don't have to swap out your shoes
       | when it's time to use it.
        
         | oxfeed65261 wrote:
         | These strap on to your shoes, they don't replace shoes.
        
       | beders wrote:
       | I can't find any reliable information on how they would perform
       | going down a hill.
       | 
       | Take San Fran: If you'd be on roller skates going down - say -
       | Oak St: you'd have to continuously break.
       | 
       | Surprised Wired hasn't tested something like that.
        
         | LarryMullins wrote:
         | Their website says _" we automatically regulate your speed
         | downhill."_ but it doesn't say where that energy goes. Brake
         | pads I guess, or maybe rheostatic braking.
        
       | dwheeler wrote:
       | This is interesting. They look like roller skates/blades, but if
       | there's really that much tech, they might be easier to use. It's
       | too costly for most, but if they catch on the price could come
       | down.
       | 
       | Bike have advantages, but take up a lot of space at their
       | destination.
       | 
       | Their closest competitor (beyond walking/running) appears to be
       | foldable electric scooters. They take less space than a foldable
       | scooter, but I'm not sure they take up _that_ much less space,
       | and I expect scooters to be able to go further on a charge. It
       | does look like the moonwalkers are much easier to use when
       | switching to /from stairs. Whether or not that matters depends on
       | how often you encounter stairs.
        
         | defterGoose wrote:
         | Traditional roller blades would be a pretty close competitor.
         | Replace the slight inconvenience of having to charge them with
         | the slight convenience of having to learn how to skate.
         | Skateboards and longboards would be other options.
        
           | reidjs wrote:
           | The difference is these have zero learning curve, which is
           | important for rich, lazy people.
        
       | ortusdux wrote:
       | Reminds me of the skateboards in Snow Crash.
        
       | Fricken wrote:
       | With an electric skateboard you don't have to swap out your shoes
       | when it's time to use it. Bigger battery. More fastness if you so
       | desire.
        
       | BugsJustFindMe wrote:
       | Could you do this without any weird complexity, sensor
       | electronics, or recharging batteries with a set of lockable
       | freewheels?
        
         | gnramires wrote:
         | Good question, but I think this breaks as well. It would be
         | interesting to have a freewheel mechanism roller skates though.
         | I think some hand-operated breaks would be a good addition too
         | (or maybe some mechanical timer that breaks when you're not
         | doing a walking motion anymore)
        
       | pnf wrote:
       | Faster? Hard pass. Guaranteed to make you slightly taller? How do
       | I invest?
        
       | stainablesteel wrote:
       | Perfect example of what should be: show, don't tell
       | 
       | Don't talk to me for 5 minutes about what your shoes do, I know
       | what shoes do. Show me people walking through common obstacles,
       | going around sharp corners, up and down inclines, up and down
       | stairs, and stopping on a dime when need be. All that around 10s
       | of other people both wearing these and normal shoes.
       | 
       | If you can't do that, it's because you can't. Because your
       | product is stupid.
        
         | mind-blight wrote:
         | Absolutely. Stopping on a dime is my biggest concern. With a
         | scooter or bike, I can hit the breaks. None of the material
         | covers how to handle emergency situations. The closest is
         | slowing down to walk up stairs
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | wyre wrote:
       | What's stopping this product from having a similar recall to
       | OneWheel? When the battery dies the software isn't able to
       | acc/decelerate the wheels to counterbalance the user leading
       | causing them to fall and likely injure themselves. However, the
       | Moonwalkers require the user to strap in their feet increasing
       | the chances of injury because they cannot separate themselves
       | from the device.
       | 
       | The only place I can see this having more value than an e-bike or
       | scooter would be in an airport.
        
         | teawrecks wrote:
         | In theory you could make the system refuse to start moving when
         | the battery is less than 8%, and demand to come to a safe stop
         | when under 4% or something like that. For all I know, that's
         | already what it does.
        
       | trynewideas wrote:
       | This is a very cool thing that I would genuinely want to try,
       | marketed about as far away from me as possible.
       | 
       | Why do they spend so much of their first-impression marketing
       | copy repeating how they aren't skates no less than five times on
       | the homepage? Because people fall over when they wear skates?
       | Because my first thought was, "Finally, heelies but for adults!
       | And also for any shoe, and also motorized!"
       | 
       | Why is going off-road with them an option, much less a desirable
       | feature?
       | 
       | Why does this need "AI machine learning algorithms" to implement
       | a PID controller?
       | 
       | Why are they $1,400(?!?) but only come in one size and ship only
       | to the US?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | mise_en_place wrote:
       | 2023's Juicero
        
       | BLO716 wrote:
       | I'll be honest, at this price point I'd just snag a Boosted Board
       | and get on with my life. Way less effort and like 50% cheaper in
       | some configurations.
       | 
       | Sorry, no win. They look awkward like Michael Jackson doing the
       | moonwalk forward.
        
         | time_to_smile wrote:
         | > snag a Boosted Board
         | 
         | Boosted went out of business in 2020.
         | 
         | It's funny how many times I've seen a "revolutionary" transport
         | product released in the tech word with the exact same set up
         | and experience: I see a hyped up marketing video from the
         | company, then look on for the inevitable wired video article
         | trying the product out (that is clearly also mostly PR). All
         | without seeing the price.
         | 
         | Each time I think "hmm... I'd spend 250-500 to try that out if
         | people like it" only to find out that the true price is close
         | to an order of magnitude more than what my initial estimate.
         | 
         | It was the same with Boosted as it is with these and the many
         | other similar products I've completely forgotten about.
        
       | jojobas wrote:
       | Looks like an easy way to break your tailbone.
       | 
       | Ok you want motorized roller skates, so why walk in them (low
       | gear) rather than actually skate (high gear)?
        
       | mberning wrote:
       | I think these could find a niche in large cities with a lot of
       | tourism. Being able to see twice the city by foot would be
       | incredible when you have limited time on vacation. Many people
       | tried to do this with Segways but it never really took off. This
       | seems a lot better.
        
         | tandr wrote:
         | Battery life is going to be a very serious limiting factor.
         | It's one thing to walk all day in a new city you are visiting,
         | and think only about recharging yourself. But walking an hour
         | in these, and then carry them (and they should be heavy,
         | relatively speaking) until next charge - I think it would not
         | be worth it.
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | > _Many people tried to do this with Segways but it never
         | really took off_
         | 
         | In my experience, this is the only actual use of Segways. I
         | never see Segways used for anything else but city tours. I
         | think maybe some mall security guards sometimes use them too.
        
       | mikotodomo wrote:
       | Neat, must be like how bike gears only move forward when you
       | pedal them. It looks hella dorky though. I think some Adidas
       | running shoes are much more practical and already the fastest.
        
       | nateburke wrote:
       | As a childhood owner of Moon Shoes, this product excites me
       | greatly.
        
       | p0pcult wrote:
       | I am actually fascinated with these, enough to seriously consider
       | a deposit. But I am very concerned about their ability to tackle
       | an "AI-drivetrain" when they can't even get counting numbers
       | right. To wit, from their Quick Start page:
       | 
       | (Also, the "Rough Terrain" text...hmm. Maybe this is all a
       | ChatGPT-produced hoax?)
       | 
       | >1. Charging >Charging Moonwalkers is the first step after
       | unboxing. They use a USB-C connection and will charge in about an
       | hour with a charger over 50W.
       | 
       | >2. Powering On >Turning Moonwalkers on is the second step after
       | charging. Its simple, but we thought a video would be helpful
       | anyways.
       | 
       | >2. How To Walk >A quick lesson on how to start walking in
       | Moonwalkers.
       | 
       | >2. Adjusting Fit >The better your fit, the better the algorithm
       | works. You want Moonwalkers to have a snug fit to your shoes. Not
       | too loose, not too tight.
       | 
       | >2. Understanding Indicators >Moonwalkers have indicator lights
       | on both shoes to communicate with you. This video shows you how
       | to understand them.
       | 
       | >2. Switching Modes >Change modes with foot-driven gesture
       | control for seamless transitions between SHIFT and LOCK modes.
       | 
       | >2. Rough Terrain >Pair text with an image to focus on your
       | chosen product, collection, or blog post. Add details on
       | availability, style, or even provide a review.
       | 
       | >2. Cleaning >How to keep your Moonwalkers clean to extend their
       | life.
       | 
       | >2. Changing Your Wheels >Just like car tires, Moonwalkers'
       | wheels will need to be replaced after extended use. This video
       | will show you how.
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | I walk more than anyone I know, and faster than anyone I know.
       | These things look good in pure technological terms and I don't
       | think it matters that they seem silly, all innovation looks like
       | mere novelty on its first outing.
       | 
       | But where they would not work for me is the ability to feel the
       | ground all the time, from texture and incline to cracks and
       | random objects. I wear regular trainers or skate shoes most of
       | the time, but even in heavy boots/sandals designed not to have
       | any flex in the sole, tactile feedback is important. I just can't
       | see the wheels and gears delivering that the same way, nor
       | lasting through the varieties of surfaces and forces that hard
       | walking involves. I feel they would work great in a campus
       | environment where you can high construction standards.
       | 
       | A less obvious issue is that fast walking isn't just a
       | fitness/surface matter. Most people are slow so maintaining a
       | steady pace requires a surprising amount of lateral movement and
       | mini-pivots, shifting one's weight around and so on. I suspect
       | the blissful gliding depicted in the product videos involved a
       | level of mutual awareness of and respect for other people's space
       | and momentum that is often lacking in busy environments.
        
         | HideousKojima wrote:
         | I'm a crazy fast walker too, my wife is always reminding me to
         | slow down even when I'm walking at a normal pace. I'm guessing
         | it's in part because I have really short legs and a really long
         | torso relative to my height so I'm doing something
         | subconsciously to compensate for it? Everyone else seems to
         | walk crazy slow to me though. I'm definitely not the target
         | demo for these shoes.
        
           | dwringer wrote:
           | Huh, I was reading this thread thinking I'd found some like-
           | minded individuals. I also have a relatively long torso and
           | slightly shorter legs (only a couple inches either way from
           | average, mind you). I never really thought about that being
           | connected but it could very well be. A big reason I move at
           | the speed I do is because I rely on my torso's inertia a lot,
           | and I often feel when walking slower with a crowd that my
           | natural ability to leverage inertia for efficiency has been
           | impeded, and I feel like it's more stressful on my knees,
           | etc.
        
           | ASalazarMX wrote:
           | Good news! You can twist your left heel and the
           | Moonwalkers(TM) will engage regenerative mode, where you will
           | be forced to walk slower, and your effort will recharge the
           | Moonwalkers(TM) battery, or your friend's phones! Everyone
           | will love it!
        
         | asdff wrote:
         | You can feel the pavement fine with a skateboard at least
        
       | alexfromapex wrote:
       | I bet you'd walk pretty fast in these down steep hills
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | Anyone else getting massive "Fisher Price Roller Skates" vibes
       | from this?
       | https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fisher+price+vintage+rolle...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | tejohnso wrote:
       | I could see these for some niche markets similar to Segway.
       | Personally, when I want to walk faster I jog.
        
       | emmelaich wrote:
       | Some specs - the interesting ones to me.                  Top
       | Speed: 7 mph        Range: 5-7mi        Charge Time: 1.5h
       | Water Resistant: IP54
       | 
       | other specs at https://shiftrobotics.io/products/moonwalkers
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | That's pretty weak water resistance no? 4 means it can handle
         | splashes but nothing more. I'd be concerned using these
         | during/after rain at $1400 + tax
        
           | gtirloni wrote:
           | I came here to post about this. Suddenly you're paying more
           | attention to water that will ruin your 1400usd skates.
        
       | elil17 wrote:
       | These look like they would have the same risks as electric
       | scooters, all while remaining invisible to everyone around you.
       | Hope to be proved wrong but these look like a lawsuit waiting to
       | happen.
        
       | seniorsassycat wrote:
       | Why do they use a walking motion, vs planting your feet while
       | using the motors?
       | 
       | Why keep batteries in the shoes instead of a back or fanny pack?
       | 
       | The staggered wheels to handle cracks and bumps without large
       | wheels seems like a good innovation, would they work with
       | unpowered skates?
        
         | xur17 wrote:
         | > Why do they use a walking motion, vs planting your feet while
         | using the motors?
         | 
         | It sounds like they're using walking speed as a control (walk
         | faster, wheels move faster, walk slower, wheels move slower).
        
       | SnooSux wrote:
       | > USD $1399
       | 
       | Oof
       | 
       | Ideally the product does well and release a more affordable
       | version later.
       | 
       | I don't have a use for it but there's definitely people this
       | could help..
        
         | michpoch wrote:
         | Just get a single shoe and save half the price!
        
           | SnooSux wrote:
           | Wanna split it? I'll take the left shoe, you take the right?
        
       | alistairSH wrote:
       | A typical walking pace is 2.5-4mph.
       | 
       | A 250% increase would then be 6.75 to 10mph, which is a jog to a
       | run.
       | 
       | I wonder how stable these are at speed vs a kick scooter or an
       | electric city bike? At some point, I'd think the larger two-
       | wheeled mobility devices would actually be more stable vs trying
       | to hop from foot-to-foot?
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | According to Wired it's 7MPH max speed.
        
         | t-writescode wrote:
         | nit: 6.75 is a run for a lot of people. It's even a sprint for
         | some. 4mph is a very, very fast walk for a lot of people.
         | 
         | A "becoming healthy" 5k (3.1-2) time is 30 minutes, which puts
         | the _runner_ at more than 6 miles per hour.
         | 
         | A friend of mine is returning to health, and he was winded
         | after a 30 minute walk at 1.8 mph the whole time.
        
       | whyenot wrote:
       | Cool! If they ever come out with a more robust version that works
       | well on trails and unpaved surfaces, I'd look into it. Depending
       | on the range, it looks like it would be pretty useful for doing
       | fieldwork like rare plant surveys.
        
       | xori wrote:
       | I don't know if 5 miles is long enough for the people who
       | actually need it, but if I was a postal worker, these would be
       | pretty sweet. And 1400 USD is cheaper than some car insurance
       | here in Canada for young males.
        
         | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
         | At least in my neighborhood I think these would be more trouble
         | than they're worth. It's a historic neighborhood so all the
         | houses are built up on berms from when they dug the basements
         | cuz the streets were full of muddy manure, so every walk up to
         | a mailbox has stairs. Unless you're agile enough to go down
         | stairs without doing the lock/unlock dance, these would
         | probably slow you down overall.
        
           | post-it wrote:
           | Supposedly you can easily go up/down stairs with these as the
           | wheels lock automatically. Not sure how that works.
           | 
           | Edit: In the video, it looks like a heel-up-toe-down motion
           | with your right foot locks and unlocks the wheels.
        
             | jasonwatkinspdx wrote:
             | I watched the video, which is why I called it the lock
             | unlock dance. Note that in that video, which is obviously
             | going to be the best looking version of it they can show,
             | it's still a pretty significant pause in your motion,
             | because the control is both motion and timing based. Doing
             | that two times per house for the 10 miles or so a carrier
             | walks is gonna get old.
        
         | LeifCarrotson wrote:
         | It has a 3.0 Ah battery (not Wh, assume one 18650 lipo cell ->
         | 11 Wh), comparable with a smartphone or flashlight. At a full
         | 300W discharge, you're emptying the batteries in just over 2
         | minutes. You'd better have well-insulated soles before stepping
         | on a pair of 150W space heaters, also, no 18650s are rated for
         | 100C discharge, 20C is a lot and 5C is more common for the
         | high-capacity low-discharge 3.0 Ah cells.
         | 
         | You get 5 mile range by using them like roller skates, using
         | your own legs to power them. The motors are just to aid in
         | walking up stairs and such.
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | My previous mailman was the walk, door to door type. There's
         | all kinds of challenges...terrible roads, gravel, mud, having
         | to walk through grass, etc.
         | 
         | I'm really skeptical these wouldn't just gum up after a few
         | days.
        
           | burkaman wrote:
           | Yeah and for $1400, wouldn't it make more sense to just get
           | an electric scooter or bike?
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Obviously v1.0 will be less savvy. But even later, I think the
       | idea of reforming natural walks is crazy. They would be better
       | off ... selling a hover board.
        
       | giardia wrote:
       | [flagged]
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | Damn, this could substitute for my bicycle commute. I could just
       | walk the distance in the same time. That would be sick. But I
       | don't want to try at $1.4k
        
         | trekkie1024 wrote:
         | The max speed for one of these is 7 mph, which is likely slower
         | than you on a bicycle.
        
           | renewiltord wrote:
           | Right, but because of one-ways the fastest route for me
           | walking is half a mile shorter than on a bicycle. It's the
           | compactness that appeals to me. I live in SF so I often don't
           | take my bicycle somewhere because it'll be stolen. It only
           | has to put me in the same ball park (~10 min) to make it
           | worth it.
        
       | wiseleo wrote:
       | Well, I might as well start prototyping tracked shoes. My version
       | would have a wearable battery park with a quick disconnect.
        
       | pleb_nz wrote:
       | Nice. Personally, I want shoes that make walking harder so I burn
       | more calories and get fitter as I walk.
        
       | rx_tx wrote:
       | > Military-grade, multiple redundancy electronics hardware,
       | running our in-house OS with jet propulsion level stability add
       | the final layer of peace of mind.
       | 
       | That is a lot of buzz-words, and sort of hinting at JPL but
       | failing.
       | 
       | At the end of the video, the exploded view shows a crazy gear
       | train, synchronizing those 10 wheels per shoe sounds tough.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | I watched a review from a shoe guy about these. He was very
         | impressed with the wheel design - basically the inset raised
         | wheels allow them to mimic a larger radius wheel and handle
         | potholes and such smoothly.
         | 
         | The designer did talk about how failures would be very bad (and
         | it sounded like he had experienced plenty of fails with the
         | earlier designs to be speaking from experience) which might be
         | why they are pushing the terminology there.
        
           | lm28469 wrote:
           | > He was very impressed with the wheel design
           | 
           | I can make a very good looking and well designed cake out of
           | human feces, I'd still go for the 100 years old tested and
           | proven brownie recipe that looks like a brick though. No
           | matter how well something is designed, if it's stupid it's
           | stupid
        
         | nomel wrote:
         | "Walk like a pro in 10 steps" had me laughing.
        
           | avelis wrote:
           | I guess I've been walking amateur this entire time.
        
             | handedness wrote:
             | Real walkers don't do it for the money.
        
         | p0pcult wrote:
         | Doesn't "military-grade" imply the lowest-possible cost to get
         | the job done? I.e., the exact opposite of the marketing PR it
         | is servicing?
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | JustSomeNobody wrote:
         | They also get their parts from the same place Tesla does!
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | So, China? Or did you mean the batteries are sourced from a
           | Gigafactory?
        
             | JustSomeNobody wrote:
             | I was being snarky. They named dropped JPL and Tesla in
             | their video.
        
             | michpoch wrote:
             | Nah, they also used the same libraries from GitHub, it
             | counts.
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | How would they perform walking over unpaved gravel? It's
       | difficult to imagine it going smoothly.
       | 
       | Day by day, the future of humanity is converging more and more to
       | Wall-E:
       | 
       | https://www.thelist.com/img/gallery/things-only-adults-notic...
        
         | sanjayio wrote:
         | It's so easy to map to to Wall-E but from my perspective this
         | is in a very different direction. You still have to move to get
         | this to work. This will essentially allow you to walk when you
         | considered Ubering or driving. You'll be less fatigued and less
         | sweaty when you reach your destination.
        
           | metadat wrote:
           | You don't think there will be a skate mode enabling the user
           | to stand still and be transported?
           | 
           | The Wall-E people will probably desire it.
        
             | turtlebits wrote:
             | There are already electric skateboards, scooters, one-
             | wheels, bikes, etc. I see nothing wrong with electric
             | skates (although range would probably be terrible without a
             | separate battery pack)
        
         | lukas099 wrote:
         | Maybe they will sense the terrain and just turn off the motor.
        
         | gcanyon wrote:
         | Over gravel you probably want larger tires. One Wheel or Evolve
         | all terrain would do it.                  https://onewheel.com
         | https://evolveskateboardsusa.com/products/gtr-bamboo-all-
         | terrain
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | JasonBorne wrote:
       | $1399. So it's just for hyper wealthy people
        
       | w0s wrote:
       | It's going to suck carrying 4Kg of shoes home when the battery
       | starts crapping out after 2 years.
       | 
       | Also so will the knee injuries from wearing 2Kg of shoe on each
       | food.
        
       | googlryas wrote:
       | Funny, I had this exact idea probably 15 years ago, but I thought
       | to myself after 5 minutes " no, that's stupid"
        
         | squokko wrote:
         | Having the idea is like 0.01% of getting a product like this to
         | market. I have an idea for a flying car, clothes that don't get
         | dirty, kitchen tables that wipe themselves down, etc etc.
        
       | aerodog wrote:
       | Airports
        
         | Graziano_M wrote:
         | Until you have to board the plane and carry and extra couple
         | dozen pounds for the rest of your trip.
        
           | standardly wrote:
           | It says they are 4lbs
        
             | jcutrell wrote:
             | But the extra dozen come from the lower calorie expenditure
             | from not walking as much. /s
        
           | standeven wrote:
           | Rent them out anywhere there's a lot of walking - airports,
           | walking tours, theme parks, malls (if they still exist).
        
             | Graziano_M wrote:
             | No way their insurers would allow that
        
           | dwighttk wrote:
           | Make fists with your toes
        
           | xnzakg wrote:
           | Would definitely be useful for airport employees who already
           | often use kick scooters
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | That's what the walkway-conveyor-belt things are for.
        
       | dylanjcastillo wrote:
       | Cool idea but seems like the kind of product bound to have the
       | same fate as Google glasses or Segway.
        
       | joegahona wrote:
       | > Designed with an adaptive A.I. drivetrain, you can cover more
       | distance - at your own pace.
       | 
       | What does "adaptive A.I. drivetrain" mean?
        
         | HN_is_for_gemes wrote:
         | [dead]
        
         | wiseleo wrote:
         | It is likely an pair of accelerometers that learns the user's
         | gait pattern. Like most other AI claims, it has nothing to do
         | with actual AI.
        
         | hcrisp wrote:
         | In the video it said something about running data through a
         | neuromuscular model. And: "Our AI uses machine learning
         | algorithms to adapt to a user's walking gaits, making them an
         | extension of people's legs."
         | 
         | For all that, the person's gait looks strange to me, like they
         | aren't using their muscles normally. Maybe they are focused on
         | landing the skate evenly on the wheels, or not getting off
         | balance? Walking gait involves heel-strike and toe-lift-off
         | phases and I would think if you mess with these they aren't
         | going to feel comfortable after wearing a while.
        
       | ynab4 wrote:
       | Hahahahaha this can't be real
        
       | jchw wrote:
       | Let me guess: I need to pair it with my phone, create an account,
       | accept a ridiculous EULA that forfeits my right to participate in
       | a class action suit, and update the firmware to add a new mapping
       | feature that tracks my whereabouts (as a feature of course, with
       | a heat map or whatever.)
       | 
       | I feel like these days, when I see a flashy new product, I need
       | to be immediately informed that it doesn't require a smartphone
       | or cloud app. I don't want to be hostage to my fucking shoes
       | because Oracle acquired the company that runs the server for
       | them.
        
         | Wojtkie wrote:
         | There's nothing on their website saying there's an app or you
         | need to pair it with a phone. It seems to be all contained
         | within the housing.
        
         | mhuffman wrote:
         | Mom! I need $50 my rollerskate shoes subscription expired! Now
         | I can't walk anywhere fast!
        
         | liendolucas wrote:
         | That's the future of SaaS (Shoes as a Service).
        
         | bilsbie wrote:
         | Remember the days we used to get excited about new technology?
        
           | freeone3000 wrote:
           | Back when it made my life better instead of worse.
        
           | yokoprime wrote:
           | This looks very much like roller skates with a ratchet in the
           | back wheels. Not sure it's new as such
        
             | throwaway4aday wrote:
             | Please make the effort to look into it before you post a
             | deriding comment. There's a lot more to them than that and
             | they are actually a very interesting piece of engineering
             | both in hardware and software.
        
         | mmaunder wrote:
         | It's worse. They'll try to get recurring revenue from what
         | should be a one-off expense for the customer. You'll be offered
         | personalized coaching. They'll partner with one of those
         | dieting companies that wants to replace your groceries. God
         | help you if you enable alerts because the app to control the
         | device will hound you endlessly until you sign up.
        
           | xwkd wrote:
           | Is this speculation? The way that this and the parent comment
           | read, it sounds like you have information that I'm not
           | finding on the website.
        
             | renewiltord wrote:
             | They'll start collecting DNA samples of you from your feet
             | and then create a clone. They'll lure you away on a
             | fraudulent whiteboard coding interview assignment and then
             | insert the clone into your family. When you return, the
             | clone will have you arrested for impersonation and you will
             | spend the rest of your life in Guantanamo while the clone
             | lives your life. At a crucial moment, they will speak a
             | trigger word that will cause the clone to kill the
             | President, who they will then replace with a clone
             | President, who will then use his now vast power to remove
             | max-speed regulations on these devices, allowing them to go
             | up to 10 mph.
             | 
             | It's terrifying.
        
             | vagabund wrote:
             | This sort of "late-stage capitalism" cynicism used to be
             | concentrated on reddit but is everywhere now. These shoes
             | are extremely technically impressive, highly novel, and
             | very useful, and yet they're still met with a combative
             | dismissiveness even on a site ostensibly dedicated to such
             | things. Sign of the zeitgeist.
        
               | culi wrote:
               | I think it's a helpful cynicism. Remember when everyone
               | rushed to 23andMe and those other DNA testing services
               | and only later did we realize this is a new frontier of
               | selling people's data?
               | 
               | I wanna know they're not gonna sell my strut
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | tkinom wrote:
             | Another idea for them: Walkatron for NFTs token for "....."
             | causes....
        
             | jstummbillig wrote:
             | Hey, we are all just getting older and grumpier by the
             | second
        
             | porphyra wrote:
             | Imagine if you spent a ton of time and effort to launch a
             | product and people on Hacker News start attacking it
             | brutally based on things that aren't even true.
        
               | gitfan86 wrote:
               | At this point I wouldn't be surprised if it is a viral
               | marketing strategy.
        
               | jchw wrote:
               | What a sad sob story. It's so unfortunate for founders
               | that they have to deal with such things as skepticism and
               | preconceived notions.
               | 
               | How about this: if you care about my demographic of
               | people, I'm happy to be appeased to in the form of
               | commitments to have offline-only functionality for the
               | hardware I'm paying for. But if you advertise the 1
               | millionth tech product and expect me to not assume it is
               | like the 999,999 previous ones out of good faith alone,
               | sorry, I'm fresh out of miniature violins.
               | 
               | I don't really want to be this flippant, but do you know
               | how burned I am by this at this point? I've started
               | returning things based on not being able to use them
               | without an account. Just scroll through Google Home
               | integrations some time and take a look at the vast
               | mountains of internet of shit devices. Sometimes, it's
               | proudly advertised that it needs a smartphone. Other
               | times, you'd be hard pressed to know it even supports it,
               | less requires it. Tooth brushes, bathroom scales,
               | literally anything a Bluetooth radio will fit in.
               | 
               | If you want to be mad at anyone, don't get mad at me. Get
               | mad at Juicero and all of the other folks dropping turds
               | in the proverbial punchbowl. I am not sorry.
        
               | twblalock wrote:
               | It's also unfortunate for the HN community that a bitter,
               | reflexive dismissal with no basis in evidence that
               | pertains to this actual product is the top comment on
               | this story.
        
               | jchw wrote:
               | So what's the alternative? Just accept it without
               | complaining ever and hope that it gets better, while
               | people leach free advertising for their fresh internet of
               | shit garbage to a hacker community? Why?
               | 
               | If it said something about having open source firmware
               | you could flash yourself, the entire premise would be
               | different. Without something like that, this is basically
               | just free advertising.
               | 
               | I agree that it is unfortunate that I need to be bitter
               | about this. Totally. Not our faults though, and again, I
               | provide an out: give me a reason to believe this is
               | different.
               | 
               | Of course it is natural for hacker types to be skeptical
               | and cynical but I swear to God, I just want an inch of
               | confidence. As it stands now I would bet you substantial
               | amounts of money they are planning on putting a Bluetooth
               | radio in the shoe.
        
               | twblalock wrote:
               | > So what's the alternative? Just accept it without
               | complaining ever and hope that it gets better, while
               | people leach free advertising for their fresh internet of
               | shit garbage to a hacker community?
               | 
               | Again, how do you know this product is one of those
               | "internet of shit" ones?
        
           | MattDemers wrote:
           | This seems ripe for replaceable bearings or some kind of
           | maintenance thing.
        
             | asdff wrote:
             | Maybe the maintenance will amount to you mailing it to them
             | to throw away and them mailing you a brand new product
        
           | FatActor wrote:
           | > You'll be offered personalized coaching.
           | 
           | Thank you for reading this so that I don't have to. Coaching
           | for walking is an Onion article I swear.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | nimbius wrote:
         | its been my experience that aliexpress usually offers a similar
         | product with about 90% of the functionality and often times
         | more features, with no rent-seeking required.
         | 
         | so ill wait for my mega-walker pro's to come out instead i
         | guess.
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | The exciting part is that 82% of the mega-walker pro's will
           | work great and the rest of them well self-immolate and burn
           | down your garage randomly. Life is an adventure!
        
       | alexb_ wrote:
       | How long until we see this on warehouse floors?
        
         | jamestimmins wrote:
         | This was my thought as well. Reminds me of Google Glass. A bit
         | too strange looking to get much use by regular people, but
         | there may be legit applications among niche groups of
         | professionals.
        
           | nidnogg wrote:
           | It reminded me of Google Glass as in it reminded me of DoA
           | product. To be honest though, I thought that they looked far
           | less strange and more useful than these shoes. I still grieve
           | for their passing.
        
       | moogleii wrote:
       | The child in me is excited, but the adult in me is skeptical of
       | the stairs mode. Unless there's some very obvious physical signal
       | that the skates are in stairs mode, I can see some people
       | injuring themselves trying to mimic the stairs demo because the
       | skates weren't actually in stairs mode.
        
         | threads2 wrote:
         | At least they'll probably be on the first step. ...if they're
         | going up.
        
       | siva7 wrote:
       | Now i'd like shoes where i can walk underwater :)
        
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