[HN Gopher] Blank cassette tape types and how to choose the righ...
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       Blank cassette tape types and how to choose the right one
        
       Author : derwiki
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2023-01-03 16:10 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (theaudioowl.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (theaudioowl.com)
        
       | UncleOxidant wrote:
       | You know, there was a time when we used to save our programs on
       | cassette tapes. I don't wanna go back there, but maybe some of
       | the youngsters who are nostalgic for cassettes would like to try
       | that out?
       | 
       | Maybe GitHub could have a 'save to cassette' button on repos and
       | then make money by sending you the cassette? ("Only $9.95 +
       | shipping & handling")
        
         | fatnoah wrote:
         | I had the cassette drive for my C64, and I remember just how
         | amazingly long it took to load and save even the most trivial
         | things.
        
           | robohoe wrote:
           | As a youngster, I did not enjoy aligning the cassette tape
           | drive heads.
        
         | buildsjets wrote:
         | GitHub has some old software-on-cassette already. The best part
         | is you don't need a cassette player to use it, just connect the
         | headphone jack of your cellphone (if the manufacturer wasn't
         | courageous enough to remove it) to the casette-in port of your
         | favorite 8-bit machine and hit play on the WAV file from
         | GitHub.
         | 
         | https://github.com/sonic2000gr/TI99
        
       | taylodl wrote:
       | What we need is an audio playback tool allowing you to select VST
       | plugins into the playback chain. We already have VST's mimicking
       | tape playback (and they're good!). We even have VST's mimicking
       | LP vinyl playback - complete with dust and hiss. Plug those into
       | your audio playback app and voila! You can re-create any of the
       | old sounds you want!
        
         | lancesells wrote:
         | Have any VST's to recommend for those things?
        
         | palmaltd wrote:
         | Soundsource [0] on macOS can do this! I run Chow Tape [1] and
         | it performs quite admirably. I've never measured the latency
         | but it has never affected me much. I'm certain a similar
         | solution is available on Linux.
         | 
         | To be fair, (quite janky, ime) VST hosts are available for
         | Windows, via the music player (e.g. Musicbee) or system-wide,
         | but those have never been reliable. Your mileage will vary.
         | 
         | [0] https://rogueamoeba.com/soundsource/ [1]
         | https://github.com/jatinchowdhury18/AnalogTapeModel/tree/dev...
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | I got into watching techmoan and similar YouTubers who got me
       | interested in vintage audio. I thought seriously about getting
       | into tapes because I have nostalgia for them and saw you could
       | make really great recordings w/ metal tapes and a deck that
       | supports Dolby S.... Decks like that can be had on ebay but the
       | metal tapes are crazy expensive, for what a deck like that costs
       | plus two metal tapes you could probably get two minidisc
       | recorders and 100 discs.
       | 
       | Today the new decks all use a cheap mechanism that is reliable
       | but sounds awful. New tapes are 'type 0' frequently. On top of
       | that it is really no fun to rewind so I gave up on getting a
       | cassette deck but who knows, if a really elite deck shows up at
       | the community reuse center I might grab it.
        
         | derwiki wrote:
         | Do you have tips on a good tape deck model, or manufacturer
         | that consistently made high quality decks? A friend gave me his
         | old Sony TC-W365 which worked admirably, until recent
         | mechanical failures.
        
           | itintheory wrote:
           | Nakamichi is widely regarded as the highest quality
           | manufacturer. The decks can be expensive and some of them are
           | extremely complex to service.
           | 
           | /r/cassetteculture is a decent resource for info.
        
           | PaulHoule wrote:
           | I would repair the one you have or get a refurbished Sony
           | from ebay like
           | 
           | https://www.ebay.com/itm/185721049456
           | 
           | those Sony(s) do need maintenance more than some decks but
           | they are very available.
        
           | tenebrisalietum wrote:
           | I have a TC-WE525 circa 1999 or 2000 that stopped working -
           | when I would start a tape playing, it would play for a
           | second, then stop, like it got to the end of the tape.
           | 
           | The belts disintegrate over time and must be replaced. I
           | successfully repaired mine from a belt kit I was able to get
           | on Amazon. It's not terribly easy to replace the belts but I
           | did manage to do it.
        
           | crispyambulance wrote:
           | The best ones seemed to use direct drive motors.
           | 
           | In my opinion, the "god-tier" would be Revox B215
           | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revox_B215) and the Nakamichi
           | Dragon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakamichi_Dragon).
           | 
           | I've personally used the Revox in the late 80's and early
           | 90's as a DJ in a college radio station. It was super durable
           | (it had to be, in a punk environment). I don't have any
           | experience with the Dragon but it looks cool and I see it has
           | good performance.
           | 
           | I think anyone who adopts a tape deck these days had better
           | be ready for getting it serviced. Aside from the mechanical
           | stuff that just wears out, the electronics are likely to need
           | work after 30+ years. Capacitors, mainly.
        
         | whoopdedo wrote:
         | > it is really no fun to rewind
         | 
         | You gotta make a game of it. I crafted a tape rewinder made
         | from an old ballpoint pen and bent paperclip that held the
         | cassette as I whirled it around. Like a '80s fidget spinner.
        
           | aliqot wrote:
           | i use two hands on a pencil and race. have to remember to
           | slow down at the end though.
        
       | caned wrote:
       | New production, Type II cassette tapes are available from ATR
       | Magnetics, e.g.: https://www.atrtape.com/products/atr-magnetics-
       | colbalt-silve...
        
       | arielweisberg wrote:
       | Can I get a DSP filter or something to simulate tape and skip the
       | tape :-)
       | 
       | It seems like everything about records and tape is not really
       | technically superior and the sound signature could be emulated.
        
         | squidsoup wrote:
         | Yes, there is some great tape emulation out there (uHe's Satin
         | is killer https://u-he.com/products/satin/), but tape machines
         | aren't desirable for the sound alone - they can be instruments
         | in their own right. Allesandro Cortini from NiN is an artist
         | that uses tape very effectively in his live performances for
         | example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdbgEHsPkes).
        
           | trynewideas wrote:
           | See also looping tapes:
           | 
           | https://www.guerrilladigital.cc/2021/03/10/i-spent-the-
           | last-...
           | 
           | and anything AMULETS does:
           | 
           | https://cdm.link/2017/01/heres-make-tape-loop-cassette-tape/
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/@amuletsmusic/videos
        
         | UncleOxidant wrote:
         | Yeah, I really don't get the nostalgia, but maybe it's because
         | I lived much of my life in the vinyl and then cassette tape
         | eras. There are so many downsides to both. Vinyl records take
         | up a lot of space and they degrade just a little bit every time
         | you play them unless you have a very expensive laser player and
         | even then...). Cassettes also degrade quite quickly and the
         | sound was never that great with cassettes. Of the two, though,
         | vinyl nostalgia is a bit more understandable because you can
         | watch the record rotate and the theory of operation is quite
         | simple.
        
         | kid64 wrote:
         | How do you figure? An analog impression directly mirrors
         | reality, digital is just an approximation. So digital seems
         | inherently inferior.
        
           | caned wrote:
           | An analog signal recorded to tape is subject to all manner of
           | distortions that don't apply to digital recordings, including
           | frequency-dependent phase shift, crosstalk between tracks,
           | print-through, tape hiss, and saturation.
           | 
           | I can never buy the argument that analog recordings are
           | better _because_ they are more faithful. I do think they can
           | sound very beautiful and be aesthetically pleasing, however.
        
           | arielweisberg wrote:
           | The two analog mediums I mentioned are both pretty flawed and
           | difficult to get clean sound out of.
           | 
           | Digital isn't inherently bad. There was a time when recording
           | engineers salivated over stereo CDs and all the problems that
           | just went away. Sure we use compressed audio now, but I can't
           | really tell the difference in any real listening scenario if
           | I am being honest.
           | 
           | Even with a headphone amp and some nice headphones.
        
             | kid64 wrote:
             | Not trolling, but can you elaborate on vinyl's flaws? My
             | understanding is that the width of the groove corresponds
             | directly to the frequency. Issues of dust etc are just
             | implementation problems, which can be resolved by placing a
             | small vacuum near the stylus (for example). But maybe I
             | don't fully understand how it works.
        
               | dragontamer wrote:
               | Temperature and Humidity literally warps the Vinyl.
               | 
               | Even if you had perfect humidity control + temperature
               | control vacuum chambers storing these things, they'll
               | still degrade over time due to other aging issues.
               | 
               | It doesn't even take that much time before these older
               | technologies (vinyl, tape, etc. etc.) degrade
               | permanently.
        
               | mnd999 wrote:
               | I think implementation problems is a good summary of
               | vinyl's flaws. In theory, it's great.
        
             | squidsoup wrote:
             | For some genres of music, clean sound is not what you want.
        
               | mnd999 wrote:
               | You want you music to sound less like what was recorded?
               | That doesn't make any sense to me.
        
               | squidsoup wrote:
               | I think we're talking across purposes, I was referring to
               | recording on tape.
        
           | NotYourLawyer wrote:
           | They're both approximations. In this case and most cases, the
           | digital approximation is much closer to the original than the
           | analog approximation.
        
           | dragontamer wrote:
           | > An analog impression directly mirrors reality
           | 
           | A clay impression directly mirrors your hand by directly
           | mirroring reality... but its a terrible storage mechanism in
           | practice. In practice, a picture of your hand, or a 3d-model
           | of your hand, stored on a reliable hard drive or USB stick,
           | will hold the information more reliably.
           | 
           | Analog impressions, be they clay, or vinyl, are destroyed
           | little-by-little each time you read from it. Simply measuring
           | / reading from film, vinyl, and even tape, causes the
           | magnetic fields to break, or the vinyl to warp and change
           | shape.
           | 
           | Digital impressions of course have the same issue. Except we
           | have these things called "error correction codes" that can
           | reset / wipe-out any such accumulation of errors (to a
           | point). So long as the digital record is reread, and
           | rewritten, before the error-correction codes wear out, you
           | can perpetually store data without any loss. CDROMs and DVD-
           | ROMs are written with absurdly huge amounts of error-
           | correction codes, ensuring that they'll almost never wear out
           | under reasonable circumstances. (Hard drives, and Flash
           | drives have different error correction codes, but the process
           | is the same. Modern filesystems, like ZFS, can even read,
           | analyze, and rewrite data as it degrades automatically)
           | 
           | --------
           | 
           | In contrast, I watched Star Wars maybe... 20 times? Before
           | the tape started to significantly degrade on my old VHS
           | player. These are technologies that can only be read dozens
           | of times before wearing out.
           | 
           | Not only that, but "copying" tapes, trying to preserve them,
           | doesn't work. The act of reading innately damages the tape,
           | so its not like you actually are "gaining more reads" by
           | copying them.
           | 
           | Only digital has the benefit of error correction codes that
           | _PERFECTLY_ replicate data within a given time frame.
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-03 23:00 UTC)