[HN Gopher] Japanese government offers families 1M yen a child t...
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       Japanese government offers families 1M yen a child to leave Tokyo
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 53 points
       Date   : 2023-01-03 14:56 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | $7648
        
       | bamboozled wrote:
       | I hate to say it but the "ideas" from the Japanese government
       | lately are just terrible.
       | 
       | I'm concerned, I know this ageist, but those in government itself
       | are just too old.
        
       | falcolas wrote:
       | I wonder if we'll see this in the US as the midwest food
       | infrastructure starts to require replacements as the older
       | generation dies off.
       | 
       | Younger generations, even in the midwest, are gravitating to
       | office work as opposed to the farms (there aren't a lot of tech
       | companies compared to the coasts, but there are enough).
        
         | FatActor wrote:
         | I drove around New Mexico four years ago and there are a number
         | of ghost towns between Las Cruces and Roswell, these are towns
         | that have nothing but boarded up buildings and no people. A
         | waiter in a restaurant explained to me that once the population
         | drops below a certain level the grocery stores disappear then
         | the schools and finally the post offices and police where
         | people are expected to drive to the next town for any of the
         | above. At the point people just migrate to a city even if they
         | don't sell their houses (which seems wrong to me like who would
         | just abandon a house?) but I didn't actually stop in the towns,
         | i just drove through. A handful of remote techies aren't going
         | to bring these ghost towns back but they might prevent others
         | from collapsing.
        
       | type0 wrote:
       | So what, this will not solve anything, they should reduce the
       | taxes for companies in rural areas as does Norway.
        
       | michaelteter wrote:
       | It doesn't seem like nearly enough money to convince someone to
       | leave their home and job.
       | 
       | The reverse might work - offering companies big incentives to
       | move from Tokyo to the declining areas (and take some of their
       | employees with them). After all, one of the primary reasons
       | people flock to the big cities is because of the availability of
       | work.
        
         | agtorre wrote:
         | I'm not sure if Japan also became more remote work friendly
         | during COVID, I feel like this could be a good opportunity for
         | those types of employees
        
           | darkwizard42 wrote:
           | From what I have heard from my (admittedly few) friends
           | there, it hasn't changed much outside of the pure tech
           | sector. The culture of being in the office hasn't changed as
           | much as it has in the US.
        
             | johnwalkr wrote:
             | Within the tech sector lots of companies went permanent,
             | partial work from home (need to be in the office a couple
             | of days a week or month depending on the company). Some
             | examples:
             | 
             | - Office downsized to only hold 30% of staff, and you can
             | work from home as little or as much as you want.
             | 
             | - Need to come a few consecutive days per month, travel
             | expenses from anywhere in Japan (within reason) are
             | reimbursed.
             | 
             | I also know a handful of people in non-tech (but not what I
             | would call salaryman/desk jockey jobs) that went to 75% or
             | more work from home.
        
           | PicassoCTs wrote:
           | How can you proof that you are present after hours, if you
           | are only remote employed? Remote work sounds thoroughly
           | uncompatible with Japanese working culture.
        
         | awillen wrote:
         | It says that you can find a new job in your new location,
         | continue to work your current job remotely or start a new
         | business to qualify. Seems like the remote work category would
         | be the easiest sell.
        
         | yamtaddle wrote:
         | > It doesn't seem like nearly enough money to convince someone
         | to leave their home and job.
         | 
         | It's gotta be intended to push people who are on the fence over
         | to the "move" side, not to get people who've not been
         | considering it to decide to move.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | laweijfmvo wrote:
       | 1M Yen is about 7500 USD.
        
       | scifibestfi wrote:
       | A lot of people are missing that it's per child and it's not just
       | the Y=1m / $7500:
       | 
       | "The payment - which comes on top of up to Y=3m already available
       | in financial support - will be offered to families living in the
       | 23 "core" wards of Tokyo and the neighbouring commuter-belt
       | prefectures of Saitama, Chiba and Kanagawa."
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | 'Per child' doesn't seem significant as the average family has
         | 2 kids max. Moving costs, rent and mortgage amounts would be
         | interesting to compare the $7500 against.
        
       | Labo333 wrote:
       | I think the greatest incentive would be to normalize remote work.
       | 
       | Offering tax benefits to companies that move out of Tokyo might
       | be effective but only in the long term.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | Very hard to effect that change if working culture is built on
         | the 'visibility' of late hours and long nights in the office.
        
           | yamtaddle wrote:
           | If they can shift pretending to work in an office to
           | pretending to be "online", that actually might be a pretty
           | big QOL improvement for much of the population, basically for
           | free, and maybe even at some savings overall if it takes
           | pressure off Tokyo.
        
         | user-extended wrote:
         | Most people aren't as enthusiastic about remote work as people
         | are on Hacker News. You cannot make teachers, most doctors,
         | janitors, drivers, etc. Work From Home.
         | 
         | Besides, it's one thing to Work from Home from a beautiful
         | place vs. a middle of nowhere town. I don't see many people on
         | Hacker News moving to Nebraska or the Sahara to Work From Home.
        
       | cesarvarela wrote:
       | I think the opportunity cost of leaving a city like Tokyo for an
       | "unfashionable" one as the article mentions is huge. Seems like
       | it will enforce inequality because rich people won't leave, and
       | people is where opportunities are, friends, partners, co-
       | founders, etc.
        
       | sovietmudkipz wrote:
       | 1 yen is == 0.0076 USD
       | 
       | 1M yen is == 7643.65 USD
        
       | knaik94 wrote:
       | I converted the value to USD to see if it changes the article
       | title. 1,000,000 Japanese Yen equals 7,646.05 United States
       | Dollar Jan 3, 3:27 PM UTC.
       | 
       | Japanese government offers families 7,500 dollars a child to
       | leave Tokyo.
       | 
       | I don't think the work culture in Japan allows the teleworking
       | situation that the government expects. The goal of 10,000 people
       | out of 13 million by 2027 also seems wildly ineffective for the
       | described objective. I don't know if I agree with even 3 million
       | yen being generous for this kind of relocation. There's a
       | condition where the people have to return the money if they
       | relocate within five years.
       | 
       | Is there a cultural motivation I am missing?
        
         | MuffinFlavored wrote:
         | What is one place that is near Tokyo that would be of "milder"
         | inconvenience that the government most likely wants them to go
         | to?
         | 
         | Is it that the population of Tokyo just loves the convenience?
         | Would be hard to ask people to give up what they know for an
         | alternative.
        
         | chaorace wrote:
         | I think the goal is injecting bodies into the surrounding
         | economies, rather being an attempt to substantially reduce the
         | population of Tokyo proper.
         | 
         | -10,000 is trivial compared to 13 million, but even +20 to a
         | nearby farming community _is_ substantial (then multiply that
         | impact by x500).
        
       | acapybara wrote:
       | Yeah but 1M yen isn't that much...
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | alberth wrote:
       | FYI ...
       | 
       | Y= 1,000,000 = $ 7,650 (USD)
       | 
       | Y= 1,000,000 = EUR 7,250 (Euro)
       | 
       | Y= 1,000,000 = PS 6,350 (GBP)
        
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       (page generated 2023-01-03 23:01 UTC)