[HN Gopher] 10x C++ Editor
___________________________________________________________________
10x C++ Editor
Author : davikr
Score : 184 points
Date : 2023-01-03 14:33 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (10xeditor.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (10xeditor.com)
| hoistbypetard wrote:
| This feels super-spammy.
| [deleted]
| nice__two wrote:
| Did anyone try opening LibreOffice master in it?
|
| LO has a reputation as an IDE-killer, as it's so large and
| complex.
| heywhatupboys wrote:
| I hope it is shorter than the startup time for LO itself
| Zenity wrote:
| This got me curious, so I gave it a try. It opens instantly (as
| always) and parsing the complete codebase in the background
| took about two minutes. After that everything is practically
| instant and there is no problem searching through the code,
| finding references, code completion, etc. Reopening the project
| is also instant and it takes less than ten seconds to fully
| load the cache in the background. Since I don't know the code I
| can't really comment on whether everything got parsed
| correctly, but the random bits I tried seemed to be right.
|
| This doesn't seem to be worse than the Unreal codebase, which
| 10x also handles with ease. I highly doubt that there is a
| codebase in existence which could bring 10x to its knees. It
| does use quite a bit of memory, but nothing a modern setup
| shouldn't be able to handle. Currently it seems to be about 4GB
| for both Unreal and LO each, with LO being just slightly
| larger.
|
| This of course are extreme cases, so you can imagine what
| performance for "normal" projects is like.
| synergy20 wrote:
| how is it better than vim, or vscode, or clion to qualify itself
| as 10x?
| synergy20 wrote:
| I don't know why is this downvoted, a genuine question from me
| actually, if it's truly revolutionary and helpful I'm willing
| to purchase then.
| fhd2 wrote:
| Can't tell why you're downvoted either - could have been a
| bit more constructive, like your second post, I guess.
|
| Otherwise I agree: 10x certainly invokes the mythical "10x
| programmer" to me, but looking through the list of features,
| it's pretty basic. USP seems to be speed, probably competing
| against the heavy IDEs, not Emacs and Vim. But getting there
| took some guesswork, the website didn't answer these
| questions well for me.
| AlchemistCamp wrote:
| I downvoted the comment because the article explicitly
| mentioned speed, which VS Code and Clion both struggle with.
| Either the gp didn't read TFA or didn't have experience with
| the kinds of code bases it discussed.
| synergy20 wrote:
| well I spent a few minutes checking its website and could
| not find that 'speed' keyword, plus I don't have a speed
| issue with vscode and clion though I don't use them often,
| as I'm a vim user.
| [deleted]
| stan680 wrote:
| I've been using this fulltime for a few months so I can provide
| some perspective from real-world experience:
|
| Firstly, on speed, I really recommend giving it a try. There's
| things like launch time / time to syntax highlighting which are
| nice to have and make it a joy to use but then there's things
| like _instant_ 'Find References' and workspace search that I
| think contribute to a qualitative difference to the way I work -
| I simply would not use these features as much or in the same way
| if they took seconds (as they do in VS).
|
| Seen some discussion comparing to things like Sublime - 10x
| understands c++ code much much better than sublime and that's
| crucial for making some of its best features like 'Rename' and
| 'Find references' work so well.
|
| The other thing I think is worth mentioning is just how active
| and responsive the developer is. Bug-fixes and improvements often
| get implemented within hours of reporting. As an example, I've
| always been annoyed by how impossible it is to make VS do 'tabs
| for indentation, spaces for alignment' - after a brief
| discussion, this got sorted in 10x quickly. I think that's a
| serious advantage over Visual Studio, that often has annoying
| issues/bugs languishing for literally years.
| jimmaswell wrote:
| > make VS do 'tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment'
|
| Using an editorconfig file I never had an issue doing this. I
| get a tab if I hit tab and a space if I hit space.
| olig15 wrote:
| I'm a heavy Visual Studio user (work for a AAA game dev, C++),
| and find VS without extensions horrible to use, but after
| Installing the 'Visual Assist' (which seems to be an industry
| standard in game dev at this point) extension it gives me all
| of the advantages you mentioned. Have you tried using this
| (admittedly paid for) extension?
| Zenity wrote:
| What got me into 10x is actually how similar the default
| setup is to Visual Assist (including default shortcuts). And
| since it supports Visual Studio solutions, 10x will just work
| out of the box with any Unreal project or many other similar
| large C++ projects. You could even switch back and forth
| without a problem while evaluating 10x, which is what I did
| the first couple of months or so when I started using it. It
| has already come a long way since then though, and I've been
| using 10x exclusively for quite a few months now (full time
| working on an Unreal project and some personal side
| projects). The developer is a former game dev himself, so he
| understands our particular needs quite well and is very
| responsive to them. The fact that 10x can easily manage those
| kind of codebases is what really differentiates it from other
| "lightweight" text editors in my book. Building and debugging
| still goes through Visual Studio for VS projects (with good
| integration and no required setup), so switching causes no
| disruption.
|
| Compared to Visual Assist it may not have all the bells and
| whistles yes, but especially the code navigation (which to me
| is the most important aspect) and code completion is quite
| advanced already and incredibly fast, even compared to Visual
| Assist. Parsing the entire UE4 codebase for the first time
| (in the background) takes a couple of minutes. Opening it
| from cache is practically instant, all search operations /
| code completion are also near instant with no stalls
| whatsoever. In terms of refactoring it is more limited, but
| renaming symbols works well and that covers about 99% of the
| cases were I regularly use refactoring tools anyway.
|
| And unlike Visual Studio or JetBrains IDEs, 10x is so fast
| and lightweight that I would like to use it for all of my
| text editing needs. That makes customizing it much more
| satisfying as well, which is quite easy to do with a
| straightforward Python API.
|
| As you can probably tell I really love this editor, it has
| had a quite dramatic impact on my enjoyment of work already.
| It won't be for everybody (and it doesn't try to), but I
| would encourage everybody to give it a try. If it is the kind
| of editor you are looking for, I think you will be very happy
| with it.
| jim90 wrote:
| Yeah, I have been a VAX user for years... took me 15 minutes
| of testing out 10x before I purchased it.
| [deleted]
| xrayarx wrote:
| Which version(s) of c++ does the 10x parser support?
|
| Are there independent performance measurements?
|
| What are your reference projects for "largest projects"?
|
| Which GUI Toolkit do you use?
|
| Do you support LSP?
| [deleted]
| pulse7 wrote:
| Please fix broken links on the license site
| (https://10xeditor.com/License.htm)...
| xrayarx wrote:
| It seems that there is no unique selling proposition. Practically
| any editor can do this for any language. Also there are many free
| editors, that fulfil the requirements.
| [deleted]
| anilcanglk wrote:
| it is rapid fast and efficient to use. I've been using it for one
| year
| artisanspam wrote:
| It would be nice if the website put the donation links below the
| demo images instead of having them be the first thing you see.
| That was a big turn off when I first loaded the page.
| [deleted]
| reisse wrote:
| As a C++ developer, I don't really see how it is going to compete
| against VS Code + LSP, Visual Studio, or even CLion.
|
| From my experience, if you work on C++ codebase large enough that
| indexing it is a problem, compiling and linking it is a problem
| of the same order. And as you need beefy hardware to compile and
| link your code anyway, you can reuse the same hardware for
| indexing and editing.
|
| Sure, VS Code + LSP may be dog slow on a typical "power
| consumption-optimized crappy business laptop" like T-series or
| X-series ThinkPads, but on such hardware, even if I had fast code
| editor, it'd be a pain to develop due to very long compile times
| anyway. And on a 12c20t workstation with 64 gigs of RAM any
| editor works like a charm. Yes, `clangd` eats 20 threads and 20
| gigs of RAM for indexing, but go to definition works instantly,
| and I don't really care about hardware resources.
|
| Then, parsing C++ properly is really hard. Even JetBrains had to
| admit it as they've integrated clang++ frontend into the CLion. I
| don't believe that one person can create both a good code editor
| and a fully compliant C++ parser. Maybe they piggyback on EDG or
| clang++ frontends, but from their website it seems that
| everything is written from scratch.
|
| Another problem I see is that very few of large codebases are
| C++-only. Usually it's some C++, some Python (or Perl, if the
| code is old enough) scripts, maybe some Java interop code, few Go
| tools, with a bit of Lua on top. And a lot of make/CMake/whatever
| build system files. "Big" IDEs and editors either support all of
| that from the box or have plugins to fill the gaps. I don't know
| if the paid-only closed-source product can gain traction big
| enough to have a vibrant plugin community.
| forrestthewoods wrote:
| > As a C++ developer, I don't really see how it is going to
| compete against VS Code + LSP, Visual Studio, or even CLion.
|
| Easy, it's better than all of them!
|
| If you're a C++ developer on Windows then I encourage you to
| simply try it. I run a 32c/64t threadripper so I also don't
| particularly care about hardware resources. My experience on a
| custom C++ codebase and Unreal Engine codebase is that 10x is
| faster and more reliable than VS Code, Visual Studio, and
| Rider. I haven't tried CLion as Rider is the JetBrains tool for
| UE.
|
| I agree lack of support for other languages is a bummer. I'm
| hoping support will be added if the tool takes off. Maybe he
| ads LSP support, I dunno.
|
| > parsing C++ properly is really hard
|
| I'm genuinely blown away he wrote a custom parser that works.
| Unreal Engine is big and nasty and full of a kajillion macros.
| My experience thus far is that 10x handles it like a champ.
| Better than Visual Studio. And equal or better than Rider.
| Super super impressive.
| thewebcount wrote:
| > on Windows
|
| They might want to mention that somewhere on the page. I
| spent time reading about it only to find out when I tried to
| download it that it doesn't support my OS.
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| The way I see 10x competing is by general speed and
| responsiveness, and the robustness of the parser. The parser
| may not be fully C++ compliant, but it is dependable and scales
| well.
|
| I don't want to be specific here, but my experiences with some
| other IDEs is that they can stall, lock up and operations can
| take seconds to complete regardless of the hardware. All this
| can break the flow. I think you really have to try 10x on a
| large project to notice the difference. The instance search
| feature alone can be a game changer.
|
| > I don't believe that one person can create both a good code
| editor and a fully compliant C++ parser
|
| Believe me, I question this myself almost every day. A small
| hobby project turned into a 6 year marathon and here we are.
| The parser will probably never be fully compliant, but
| hopefully it's good enough for most code. And the speed and
| robustness will hopefully compensate for this.
|
| > Another problem I see is that very few of large codebases are
| C++ only
|
| Even though I market 10x as a C++ editor, it has syntax
| highlighting for many other languages. And you can add more
| languages using the regex system. I'll hopefully be adding some
| parsing for other languages after the 1.0 launch.
| _gabe_ wrote:
| I have a PC with 48GB of RAM, RTX 2080, Intel i7-9700K, and
| Visual Studio _still_ lags a lot of the time for me. Also,
| Visual Studio doesn 't support renaming by reference out of the
| box. You can install ReSharper, but then it slows things down
| even _more_.
|
| > As a C++ developer, I don't really see how it is going to
| compete against VS Code + LSP, Visual Studio, or even CLion.
|
| If it's fast and supports these basic features that literally
| every other language already supports, then it's already
| beating Visual Studio. I haven't used CLion so I can't comment
| there, and VSCode was a pain trying to set up, so if this
| supports integration with cmake and automatically configured
| everything, then that's a win in my book.
|
| Edit: I also hate these doom and gloom comments that basically
| say "nobody can beat big Corp Microsoft, Google, etc. Why
| bother trying...". What purpose does this comment serve? I'm
| sure the author is much more aware of how difficult this
| problem is then the people who aren't even attempting to solve
| it. All the power to him and I hope he succeeds because some
| other editors/IDEs for C++ would be _great_.
| darknavi wrote:
| > VSCode was a pain trying to set up, so if this supports
| integration with cmake and automatically configured
| everything, then that's a win in my book.
|
| Not sure the last time you tried, but VS Code does support
| cmake (perhaps with extensions?).
| forrestthewoods wrote:
| Lots of comments from people here who haven't tried the editor.
| I've been using it full time for about a month, so here are some
| assorted thoughts.
|
| I don't use vim or emacs. I probably never will. Sorry.
|
| This editor is made for C++ game devs on Windows. If you are a
| C++ gamedev on Windows then it is likely the best editor in the
| market. An example of this is it has integrated Perforce support
| but not Git.
|
| 10x can open .sln files natively and invoke its builds. Very
| slick.
|
| I'm pretty sure 10x is the best editor on market for Unreal
| Engine projects. It's so much faster then Visual Studio or Rider.
|
| It has a custom C++ parser. It's the fastest and most reliable
| one I've come across. It blows my mind.
|
| The solo dev is _insanely_ responsive. I filed a bug on GitHub
| and he responded in literally one minute (I checked the time
| stamps). He sent me a custom debug build which I ran out o get
| info and had a crash fix published to the world in under 30
| minutes. Stellar stuff.
|
| The downsides:
|
| it's just a C++ editor for Windows and it does have bugs.
|
| It's not a debugger, just a text editor. I've been using RemedyBG
| which is good, but not as far along as 10x.
|
| Support for additional languages is listed as a possibility for
| the future. I will keep using it happily for C++. If in the
| future it supported more languages to the same level of quality
| that would be awesome.
| tkuraku wrote:
| The monthly cost is kind of a nonstarter for me. The sublime text
| model seems like a good alternative. ~$100 for ~3 years of
| updates with perpetual ownership of the latest version at the end
| of your subscription.
| [deleted]
| Zenity wrote:
| The monthly cost is for supporters and to get priority support
| on Discord (absolutely worth it IMO given how fast the dev
| responds to issues and requests). AFAIK the final pricing model
| for the release is not decided yet.
| sam0x17 wrote:
| Some web design advice: I looked for a tab called "Screenshots",
| didn't find one, didn't find any general info about what this is
| other than the buy now stuff, so I hit the Back button.
|
| Edit: I re-visited and scrolled down past what I thought was the
| end of the page only to find everything I was looking for. This
| is the problem with these huge scrolling marketing pages. You
| gotta lead with the content and then try to sell me at the
| bottom.
| detrites wrote:
| Exact same thing happened here. Only went back because I saw
| your comment.
| sam0x17 wrote:
| Yeah, I think people take "single page application" a little
| too literally these days
| DrewADesign wrote:
| Yeah. These folks should probably hire a designer. They clearly
| put a lot of fancy looking elements in it to attempt to
| replicate the look of a designed page, but that's not how it
| works. Many developers think design is like air freshener for a
| page-- an aesthetic improvement based on personal preference
| and taste that's distantly secondary to the _real content._ But
| colors, relationships between elements, placement of elements,
| and all of those things communicate about your product. If they
| 're inexpertly or sloppily put together, it communicates that
| your product is inexpertly or sloppily put together _well
| before they visually parse your copy and screenshots._
|
| Here's a free first impression breakdown for them: A page's
| social media link stripe is commonly at the bottom of the page
| as a final "ok you're not going to buy this right now, but at
| least keep us in mind" call to action, or at the very top of a
| page as a nav element. Gray is a common color for page terminal
| stripes or other perfunctory, de-emphasized components because
| nothing stands out against it as much as it would stand out
| against something else. Pricing schemes are either on a
| standalone page or at least after some introduction explains
| what they are. Seeing the gray stripe of social media links
| under the pricing block is like a stop sign to your brain.
| Beyond that, the "more options" button at the bottom of the
| page only reveals more options at the top of the page. The
| section of tiny screenshots half covered up with those boxes in
| that same "not important" gray is very off-putting. Not only
| does varying shades of gray text on white or various shades of
| gray background scream "don't pay attention to me," it's
| irritating to read, and their #969696 text on white on the
| purchase page even fails WCAG AA color contrast guidelines for
| headlines. Many elements are slightly misaligned. The complete
| lack of visual hierarchy beyond the project name and purchase
| section title leads users to subconsciously say "not worth the
| cognitive load to figure out what's going on here," and
| leave... and that was a sub 5-minute analysis.
|
| Most bounced users don't consciously think about why they left.
| They'll never complain about it because they'll never think
| about you again. There's a damn good reason big businesses put
| a lot of time and resources into that stuff, and as much as
| folks like to think otherwise, having developers as your
| customers doesn't change that. Developer-targeted FOSS projects
| get away with undesigned websites because it's _free as in
| speech,_ and most people are probably looking at the very
| thoughtfully designed Github, et al interface instead. Even
| subconsciously, broken buttons, misaligned elements,
| uncomfortably obfuscated elements, and miscommunication of
| navigation cues through poor color choice does not communicate
| "high-quality paid software product that beats the vast array
| of free competition."
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| Thanks for this advice. I'm currently in the process or re-
| doing the website and this is really useful feedback.
| Hopefully a lot of these issues have already been addressed.
| I'll be uploading the new site in a day or two.
|
| The sudden activity on this site kind of took me by surprise,
| I wasn't quite ready for the big reveal.
| [deleted]
| tejohnso wrote:
| > The 10x philosophy: Every operation, from opening projects to
| searching for text should be instant.
|
| You can get that with basic VIM and some grepping shortcuts.
| Maybe I'm just not working in sufficiently large code bases. But
| shouldn't a C++ specific editor have some philosophy that is
| specific to C++? Like awareness of ownership semantics for syntax
| / lint checks? Maybe not the best example, but "be fast" doesn't
| seem like a great differentiator.
| [deleted]
| ljw1004 wrote:
| I presume it means things like "does cross-file go-to-def and
| find-all-references work instantly after opening a file?" In
| most IDEs these things take seconds or minutes to become
| available, depending on project size
| steeleduncan wrote:
| I think at this point speed is a great differentiator.
|
| I've been happy with the featureset and design of all C++ IDEs
| I've tried for a decade or so now, but they never seem to get
| any faster. An IDE designed specifically for speed, with an
| ongoing committment to keep it fast, solves the biggest issue I
| have with C++ coding right now.
| nine_k wrote:
| What instantly jumps at me is the fact that the software is
| subscription-based, with a monthly cost. Small, admittedly, if
| you're in the US, or maybe in Switzerland, and have a job (not a
| student, etc).
|
| I'm more and more reluctant to admit _any_ tools that are not
| open-source into my long-term stack. And a text editor is usually
| a very long-term commitment: you want to commit it to your muscle
| memory, and most of your daily development workflow hinges on the
| editor.
| fasterik wrote:
| I thought the same thing at first (the website could be
| clearer). But it's actually a free beta. The subscription is
| there for people who want to help fund development and get
| priority support.
| lholden wrote:
| I love seeing new editors come up. Always curious to see what
| people have planned for them. With that said... I do have to say
| that the landing page for this was a turn off for me.
|
| Digging through the landing page, the focus seems to be on how to
| support it and there just isn't enough time spent talking about
| why this project is cool or worth supporting.
|
| From what I can gleam from the page this seems to have a GPU
| backed renderer and have fast startup times. It seems intended
| for C++ but doesn't really talk about C++ specific features. (Ex,
| CMake integration, integration with doctest/catch/etc).
|
| The one C++ specific thing it mentions is "full C++ parser for
| syntax highlighting, autocomplete, goto-definition, find
| references and a lot more". Does this support C++20? Is it using
| it's own engine for this or is integrating with clang or
| something similar. What is this doing that all of the other
| editors with C++ syntax support don't have?
|
| I consider CLion to be a "gold standard" for features and
| functionality as a editor/IDE for C++. The only thing it doesn't
| do for me is "be fast and light". I'm also a long time VIM user
| and I generally default to VIM when I want something "fast and
| light".
|
| If there was an editor/ide that had many of the features of CLion
| and the speed of VIM, I would certainly consider that to be
| "10x".
| Zenity wrote:
| Yes it is using its own parsing engine. The developer is
| prioritizing the most common language features but also
| constantly working on adding more edge cases as people run into
| them. The parser is designed to do a sensible thing in all
| cases, so while occasionally it may not get it perfectly right
| (yet), that doesn't break the parser completely.
|
| What this custom solution is doing that others don't is simply
| that it is incredibly fast. You really need to try it to fully
| appreciate this though, especially on large codebases it makes
| a significant difference. Not just because it never lags or
| stalls while working, but also because it makes it much less
| painful to work with those codebases if you can instantly find
| and jump to anything.
|
| The speed and simplicity is the main selling point, but unlike
| other lightweight editors it doesn't achieve this simply by
| being "less". From my perspective the main selling point is
| that it is a lightweight and performant editor that can
| actually replace Visual Studio + VAX / JetBrains for game
| developers (especially Unreal Engine projects and comparably
| large codebases). For that use case there just isn't anything
| comparable on the market right now.
|
| Whether it is equally useful in other scenarios already
| (especially if you are happy with your current setup) I can't
| really judge, and I would agree that the website could do a
| much better job selling it. The developer is still updating the
| website often, but his priority is working on the actual app of
| course and he is doing everything by himself from what I can
| tell.
|
| In a nutshell, right now I would say that 10x is mainly a great
| choice for game developers. But that's only because that is
| where its strengths are most unique right now, not because it
| is intended to be only that. It still isn't even fully released
| yet, and I think it has a lot of potential to be much more than
| "just" a performant editor for game developers.
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| Please don't judge the website too harshly. I agree it doesn't
| communicate what 10x is very well and isn't very professional.
| I'm currently working on an update that I'll be uploading in
| the next day or two. I wasn't quite ready for a big announce
| yet, but I'm pleased more people are discovering 10x.
|
| > If there was an editor/ide that had many of the features of
| CLion and the speed of VIM, I would certainly consider that to
| be "10x".
|
| This is exactly what 10x is meant to be. Whether it has enough
| features yet is up to you to judge. Everyone needs a different
| set of features, but if it has the features you need then I
| hope it lives up to its name.
|
| I've written the parser myself, but I haven't been keeping
| track of exactly what version of C++ is supported. The C++ spec
| is incredibly complex. Over the last 6 years I've been adding
| things as they are requested. The good thing about the parser
| is that it will skip anything it doesn't understand and
| continue on. This sounds bad, but it actually works out very
| well. It will do a pretty good job of most things you throw at
| it. The best thing is to try it and see. If you need specific
| support for something, let me know and I'll see what I can do.
| monkeycantype wrote:
| Hello Stewart, I think the only addition I would want to the
| website is an _about page_ with a few paragraphs to explain
| your motivation and goals. Without that entry point, I was
| clicking through, feeling like 10x was something I might be
| interested in but not really sure what it was.
| czx4f4bd wrote:
| This is one of my biggest gripes with a lot of open source
| [edit: and also non-open source] projects. It's sort of
| baffling to me when I come across a project that the
| maintainers clearly want to be used, but there's no clear and
| concise explanation of what the project is, why you'd want to
| use it, and how it compares with major alternatives.
| _kst_ wrote:
| Agreed. I've seen too many README files that summarize the
| changes in the latest release without explaining what the
| project is or what it's for. (I don't have a specific
| example, which _might_ imply that the problem isn 't as bad
| as I remember it being.)
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| Point taken. I'm currently working on a new website and I'll
| try and I'll try and address these issues.
|
| It's simply down to time, I spend most of my time working on
| making 10x better. Because it's still in Beta I haven't
| focused on the website much.
| __float wrote:
| Do note that this project isn't open source: for something
| like an editor, this is a bit of a negative for me since it
| significantly reduces how it can be customized if need be.
| czx4f4bd wrote:
| Oops. Thanks for the correction. I only lightly skimmed the
| project page, so I think the "Support 10x Development"
| header made me assume it was an open source project asking
| for donations.
|
| That said, I'm not really sure why I specified "open
| source" since my gripe definitely goes for any software
| project, and probably doubly so for commercial ones, since
| those actually need a literal sales pitch to convince
| potential users of their value proposition.
| fefe23 wrote:
| I have no interest in this (happy with vim, developing under
| Linux) but I installed it anyway and the first impression is
| absolutely impressive.
|
| The installer is comparatively small. It loads quickly. Doesn't
| ask any useless questions. Installs quickly. The app also loads
| quickly and feels snappy.
|
| People tend to underestimate the importance of first impressions.
| This guy gets it.
|
| Now if this was open source and built and ran on Linux, I'd be
| interested. _uninstall_ :-)
| [deleted]
| Johanx64 wrote:
| Who cares in what you'd be interested in after you've clearly
| stated that you want software to be essentially given away for
| free?
|
| At that point your desires become 100% irrelevant, nobody
| cares.
|
| "If this software was given away for free with full access to
| source and had features X, Y and Z, I'd be interested", like
| wtf, how can you say this with a straight face?
| jostiniane wrote:
| Your comment is out of place at so many levels.
|
| First, you don't know there are commercial products being
| completely open source.
|
| Second, as a user, the one has the right to put their
| priorities regardless of your irrelevant opinion on them
| being good or bad.
|
| Finally, I fail to understand the hostility against somebody
| who simply expressed what they want to see in an editor,
| something that contributes nicely to the thread, unlike your
| hostile purely negative comment.
| Johanx64 wrote:
| > First, you don't know there are commercial products being
| completely open source.
|
| Cut it out, everbody knows full well how open source works
| out for small indie, much less one person teams.
|
| It is extremely egocentric to demand for a change of
| business model which would send the author begging for the
| next meal on patreon. And then after you've asked "kindly"
| the author to join the homeless row, you have the gall to
| ask for additional features or "uninstall" smiley-face.
|
| So no, I do believe the hostility is more than warranted
| when the author is being pressured/bullied into making
| decisions which would - statistically speaking - lead to
| financial ruin.
|
| This wasn't a reply to a reasonable feature request by a
| paying customer or even potential customer, so no, nothing
| was contributed by it other than a sheer display of
| egocentrism and entitlement.
| [deleted]
| chlorion wrote:
| Free software has nothing to do with money or not paying for
| a product.
|
| You can educate yourself with the following resource:
| https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
| IshKebab wrote:
| It doesn't have _nothing_ to do with it. It 's much easier
| to sell software if it's closed source. Some people manage
| to sell open source software but it's obviously pretty hard
| to compete with some guy who just compiled your software,
| changed the name and is giving it away for free.
| linhns wrote:
| For $10 a month (I assume tier 2 is what most people find
| acceptable for use), what would I get for this editor? No
| roadmap, not even an about page and the last HN post was from
| last year so a definite no from me.
| [deleted]
| pantalaimon wrote:
| Does this also work for C?
| Zenity wrote:
| Yes, with some minor limitations as it receives much less
| testing. I was using 10x with The Machinery (RIP) for some time
| and the developer was super responsive fixing any C-specific
| issues (and even added some TM specific features when I asked
| nicely). If more people start using it for C and report any
| issues found, it should get even better.
|
| I would say it may even be better suited for C to some extent
| since that is a much simpler language with less chances for the
| parser to get confused by some obscure corner case. C++ really
| is the worst case scenario for a parsing engine, so once it
| works reliably for that, support for other languages should
| also become much more feasible.
| scombridae wrote:
| It's hard to imagine a C programmer so professionally ignorant
| that he's yet to realize C++ is a superset of C.
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| >It's hard to imagine a C programmer so professionally
| ignorant that he's yet to realize C++ is a superset of C.
|
| Ooof. restrict keyword enters the chat. C and C++ are two
| languages that evolve together, but one is not a superset of
| the other.
| [deleted]
| MobiusHorizons wrote:
| I see this comment a lot, but it's not true (at least not any
| more). Many valid C programs do not compile through the C++
| compiler. The standards for C++ and C have deviated over the
| years.
| TheArcane wrote:
| What's with every paid software product being a monthly
| subscription now? I just wanna buy and forget, not be reminded of
| it every month on my credit card statement.
| andsoitis wrote:
| I'm fine with software subscriptions (fixes, upgrades, customer
| support, etc.), but subscribing for something that's still in
| development (this case) is harder for me to swallow, in
| principle. On the other hand, it is very little money and you
| can cancel your subscription at any time so it keeps the
| developer honest (focus to make the product better and reach
| 1.0).
|
| What I'm most surprised by is that Visual Studio isn't more
| than adequate. What does Microsoft use internally?
| witx wrote:
| I actively dislike the subscription model as well and it's
| permeating into software products unfortunately.
|
| With this said I actually like Jetbrains' model where you pay
| something like a subscription but after 12 installments you get
| to keep the version you've paid for, even if you discontinue
| the subscription. If you prefer you can pay the full price
| upfront and you get the same result.
| [deleted]
| yellow_lead wrote:
| > There is no need to pay for a license while 10x is in Beta,
| you are free to use 10x for whatever you like. Even if you
| don't become a supporter you can still give feedback and
| suggestions using the contact form. Your feedback is just as
| valuable to me and will help to make 10x the best editor
| possible.
|
| https://10xeditor.com/support_10x.htm
| neomantra wrote:
| While I understand that sentiment, this appears to be a product
| from an indie developer. In that regard, it could fit the model
| of Patreon/OnlyFans rather than Adobe Creative Cloud and
| Office365.
|
| I actually hope more indie developers do this -- and complement
| it with live-coding the product development and other neat
| perks. If it reaches critical mass beyond "fans" and becomes
| major-version-based sales, then early supporters could get
| large discounts.
|
| Biggest downside seems to be if the software becomes End-of-
| Life and End-Of-Access suddenly, for whatever reason, and my
| workflow is disrupted. Some Open Source Parachute would be cool
| -- over time, we are all affected by dropped software products,
| by developers big and small.
| hn_user2 wrote:
| Agreed. I have put a hard stop on subscribing to any software.
| Even Jetbrain's products, I'll just purchase outright every few
| years to get updates.
|
| All those subscriptions add up. And when I buy a product I
| expect to use it for a very long time (decade +). If I add up
| those subscription fees it feels incredibly expensive.
|
| I have successfully weened myself off of all my software
| subscriptions. On a yearly basis it was costing me $1000+ for
| software. At this point it doesn't matter how good of software
| it is, I'm moving on if it doesn't have a purchase or lifetime
| option.
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| I understand the resistance to a monthly subscription, but it's
| the only way I can continue to work on 10x. I've been working
| on 10x for 6 years now, and even with the generous support from
| the beta subscribers I can't go on indefinitely like this.
| Hopefully the subscription will seem worth it with all of the
| bug fixes and features that are planned. I will continue
| uploading new versions regularly, as I have been doing:
| https://10xeditor.com/versions.htm
| karaterobot wrote:
| They should call it 12x. I'm at the point where I just don't do
| these small monthly subscriptions anymore. I'd stop short of
| saying it's predatory. More like it's insulting. The smaller
| the payment, the more like I feel they're counting on me
| forgetting I'm paying them, or not wanting to go through the
| cancellation process.
| corysama wrote:
| I've never worked on indie desktop software, but I've heard the
| same story repeated here for over a decade by those who have:
|
| Everyone wants buy once, updated forever software. But, they
| don't want to pay for it. Usually they think a fair, up-front
| price is less than they'd pay month-to-month as a subscription
| for a year. And, then 80+% of them will only buy when there is
| a big sale cutting that price to a fraction. And, even when you
| have a good product at a good price, your sales plummet every
| time the crack for your DRM gets updated. So, you have to push
| frivolous updates that mainly exist to keep your DRM ahead of
| the crackers.
|
| Buy once works great for consumers. And, has worked great for a
| handful of products. But, commercial desktop software has been
| an excessively difficult market for two decades now. That's why
| it is a hollow shell of what it could be with the issues I
| listed above. That's why we get so many web apps that would be
| better for consumers as desktop apps: can't pirate a web app,
| subscribing to a web app _feels_ justifiable.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| JetBrains made a good compromise, IMO: You get a perpetual
| license that allows you to use whatever version you had at
| the time, but you only get updates as long as you're paying
| the subscription.
|
| And that's fair, IMO. A lot of my "buy once" software in the
| past turned into a never-ending game of unpredictable
| upgrades. I'd have to re-buy upgrade licenses at
| unpredictable intervals to continue using the software with
| new version of MacOS or new plugins. At least with the
| subscription model, it's honest and open.
| xedrac wrote:
| > Everyone wants buy once, updated forever software.
|
| Actually, I prefer buy never, updated forever software.
| Somehow free* software fills all my needs these days. I
| wouldn't mind paying for exceptionally good software, if it
| came with source code and the ability to build new versions
| of it.
| fhd2 wrote:
| Didn't downvote you, but this is essentially why I have no
| desire to build anything for programmers - unless I happen
| to need it for myself, then I casually open source it
| (rarely actively maintained as soon as I stop needing it).
|
| I go to _fantastic_ lengths to not pay for software, to
| mostly use software I could theoretically contribute to, or
| even to not have to deal with learning new tools. I even
| built my own accounting system (based on Ledger though).
|
| We're an insanely tough crowd to monetise, I suppose. At
| least some of us. Meanwhile, prosumer software in other
| areas seems to be doing quite well, happy users, decent
| income for the developers and all.
| not_the_fda wrote:
| I think some people are always hesitant to open their
| pocketbook, but I've spend quite a bit on my software
| development tools. I've bought countless IDE's, code
| editors, diff tools, and source control clients. If it
| makes my job easier its usually worth the price.
| omoikane wrote:
| I like DxO's model, which is "buy once and receive updates
| for a while". Minor bug fixes appears to continue for about a
| year, while major feature updates requires buying new
| versions. This model means I get to choose when to upgrade
| (and thus when to pay), and it's one reason why I use their
| software instead of Adobe's.
| pvarangot wrote:
| Ableton is on the same model.
| logicalmonster wrote:
| > Everyone wants buy once, updated forever software.
|
| People pretend they hate Paradox Interactive's DLC-based
| business model, but I like knowing that the games I buy will
| very likely be well-developed with many years of extra work
| put into them. More commercial software should take a little
| inspiration from them in terms of figuring out a way to fund
| and work on projects long term.
|
| For those that don't know, Paradox is a game publisher that
| often release a basic shell of a grand strategy game that
| serves as a platform for DLC. The bad news is you have to
| shell out more money every so often for the biggest new
| features: but the good news is that they're continuously
| making big improvements and adding big features and have an
| incentive to make them as good as possible.
|
| I confess that I don't know exactly if this model would work
| for a text editor, but nothing is as off-putting to me as
| software subscriptions when something can work locally.
| badsectoracula wrote:
| On the completely opposite side of this spectrum, i avoid
| any game that i see having DLC getting pumped out
| constantly - Paradox being one developer i avoid.
|
| I want to buy the final full game whenever the developers
| are done with it, not buy pieces of it. If the developers
| want to add new stuff they can always make a sequel.
|
| Because of this i tend to wait until some "game of the year
| edition" is out and the developer has started working on a
| new game (only a very tiny fraction of developers are going
| to bother making DLCs for their previous games instead of
| focusing their development efforts towards the new games).
|
| The only exception to that is MMOs and the like that by
| their nature need updates and IMO the best approach there
| _is_ having a subscription to fund the game 's development.
| Of course the greedy powers that be figured out that giving
| the game for free and monetizing microtransactions on the
| easily preyed upon "whales" makes more money regardless of
| the detriment that may have on the games' design.
| logicalmonster wrote:
| I get where you're coming from. I suspect that a lot of
| peoples' aversion to all DLC stems from really greedy
| phone games, where the trend has been to try and monetize
| either extremely basic functionality or the ability to
| play more often through gems/coins/diamonds/stars/etc.
| Good DLC like XCOM 2's War of the Chosen basically
| transformed and improved the experience of the entire
| game and can be very much worth it.
|
| For many kinds of games with a level of complexity beyond
| a shoot-em-up, I feel like these kinds of games would be
| very difficult to make without a lengthier iterative
| process that probably requires an additional revenue
| stream.
|
| As the example given, Paradox makes grand strategy games
| with intricate war/politics/economics and other game
| systems that are all interrelated. Ideally, a company has
| a lot of data and community feedback on the tiniest
| minute details to figure out what elements work and what
| elements don't and eventually refine the systems into the
| best possible version.
|
| That said, I'm not saying it's impossible to avoid adding
| DLC and still fund quality long-term development. A
| different good game Project Zomboid has been in Steam
| early access for a decade and is in a very good state and
| still getting big new features: but those occasional
| indie gems are the exception, not the rule. With most of
| Paradox's games, you basically know that it'll be
| supported and improved for years specifically because of
| their business model.
| weakfortress wrote:
| [dead]
| klyrs wrote:
| > Everyone wants buy once, updated forever software.
|
| I want buy once, free minor bugfixes until the next major
| version comes out software.
|
| For example, I liked windows 3.1, hated windows 95, liked
| windows 98, hated ME, liked 2000, and never liked another
| windows. Likewise, I liked early versions of Google maps, but
| they change the interface in small and large ways
| unpredictably. I could go on.
|
| With the subscription model, you're stuck with every whim of
| the developers, stuck with horrible interface changes and
| you're constantly re-learning how to use the software to do
| the things you need to do with it. There's a tendency to make
| new features prominent, which comes at a cost to old (that is
| to say, core) features.
|
| Auto-updates are a pox on usability. Stability in tools is
| severely underrated and destroyed by the subscription model.
| Decabytes wrote:
| I mean there is obviously the more money component, but if the
| software continually receives updates every month then it's
| easier to justify it. The old photoshop model is difficult for
| most developers to pull off (having paid versions). Also it
| makes it challenging if you are say running a class, or doing
| YouTube tutorials and everyone is on various versions that
| might not have some of the new features.
|
| I wonder if there is a happy medium where you can buy it, and
| then if a couple years later the software improves a bunch you
| can upgrade at a discounted price tiered to how many years it's
| been since you updated. I.E if it's 1 year is a 90% discount, 2
| years a 80% discount, 3 years 70% discount etc. What do people
| think of this model?
| Gys wrote:
| You do not want updates that solve bugs? Some support in case
| you have questions or problems? Maybe also some new features
| (usually the word changes and also your experience and
| expectations)?
| ltbarcly3 wrote:
| Somehow software vendors were able to accomplish 2 things
| during the last 4 decades:
|
| 1. Ship software, including free updates for the current
| version to fix bugs, without any fees beyond the purchase
| price.
|
| 2. Become the richest companies in the world, by far, to the
| point it's not even close.
|
| So the idea that they need subscriptions so they can 'afford'
| to fix bugs is ridiculous. Also, paying the subscription
| isn't a warranty, maybe they collect my money and don't fix
| my bugs.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| The free updates don't last indefinitely, generally you
| still have to pay for "extended" support.
| rightbyte wrote:
| If you have happily used some software for say 6 years,
| it is no problem if the vendor stops fixing bugs in it.
| It already works.
|
| SaaS and subscriptions is mainly a way to control the
| users and milk them for money.
| bogwog wrote:
| They didn't become the richest companies in the world by
| selling software without a subscription, they did it by
| illegally suppressing competition without any repercussions
| (among other things)
| someguydave wrote:
| Agreed, when I think of "rich software companies" they
| all either had monopolies or were able to monopolize a
| significant network or "mindshare".
| GuB-42 wrote:
| Yes, and don't mind paying for these.
|
| But I also want the software I buy to keep working as well as
| they did the day I bought them. I don't expect the developer
| to fix all bugs forever without any additional payment, even
| less add features, but I'd rather not have a kill switch,
| which for a text editor is what subscriptions are.
|
| Many software vendors (ex: Jetbrains) offer renewable
| permanent licences that pays for maintenance without the kill
| switch. Sublime Text, which is possibly 10x most direct
| competitor now has a permanent license with 3 years of
| updates, which can be considered a subscription (you have to
| pay every 3 years for updates), but if you stop, your
| software won't break.
| nurettin wrote:
| Bugs should be solved because the author made mistakes in
| software that they sold, and are in the process of actively
| selling. Not because I have a subscription.
|
| Features should be added as addons that I may or may not
| purchase.
|
| Support should be optional.
| heavenlyblue wrote:
| I don't want to finance their project managers shipping new
| "social" features and useless functionality that I am not
| paying them for.
| yeputons wrote:
| I want these much less than I want the ability to run the
| software without the danger of a developer disabling access
| on a whim. Happened too many times already, including to me
| personally. A standard example: games.
| zbrozek wrote:
| I want low-bug-density software I buy once and don't receive
| updates for until I pay again.
| [deleted]
| wnkrshm wrote:
| We should pay for features not for fixes
| someguydave wrote:
| Unfortunately very few are willing to pay a high price up
| front for quality software.
| aix1 wrote:
| Exactly this, thank you for articulating it so well.
| berkle4455 wrote:
| If I paid for a fully working product, fixes should be
| included, similar to how vehicle oems issue recalls and
| provide a warranty/guarantee.
| have_faith wrote:
| Am I right that the Sketch app used to work like this? just
| looked at their website and only see a subscription
| offered.
| junon wrote:
| It's because nobody complained when software moved toward
| subscription models.
| mrozbarry wrote:
| I think it would be great to have two streams. Purchase a
| specific X.Y.* version, revision updates for free, and purchase
| other updates, OR subscribe at a much lower cost monthly to get
| all updates for any version. Just like JetBrains, if you stop
| the subscription, you keep what you have.
| charcircuit wrote:
| It provides an incentive to keep shipping value to your
| existing users as opposed to trying to solely grow the size of
| the userbase since only new users give you money.
| fckgnad wrote:
| [dead]
| make3 wrote:
| vscode, the main competition to this I assume, is very fast to
| me. would be curious to know how they compare
| weakfortress wrote:
| Try to open a large text file in VS Code and watch it grind to
| a halt. While VS Code offers a buffet of features that are cool
| and convenient it has a lot of problems.
| __float wrote:
| I find I occasionally look at "huge" text files in my day
| job, but they're almost never _source_ files -- so I don 't
| need syntax highlighting, jump to definition, etc.
|
| Is this something you do often in your C++ development?
| weakfortress wrote:
| I work with data, so it's not uncommon to load a large file
| either deliberately or accidentally. Highlighting isn't the
| issue. Even a CSV on the order of 100-200MB kills VS code
| dead. I assume this is because it's an electron app. Other
| apps do not have this problem.
| AlchemistCamp wrote:
| That's very surprising. I've found VS Code to be considerably
| slower than Sublime Text or VIM for just about everything. I
| don't think there would be much overlap at all between VS Code
| users and people who would want something like this.
| franky47 wrote:
| If you use it, does that make you a 10x engineer?
|
| (I'll see myself out)
| [deleted]
| Koshkin wrote:
| emacs is no longer constantly swapping, either.
| [deleted]
| xigoi wrote:
| What does it offer over Neovim with some plugins and a C++
| language server?
| [deleted]
| ahepp wrote:
| Does HN really allow posting just a purchase link? Not even a
| discussion of why anyone would use this over vim/VS code + LSP? I
| have to scroll below the fold to even see what it claims the
| features are. Sorry to be that guy, but this one should have been
| caught in the spam filter.
| [deleted]
| kvathupo wrote:
| Given all the idioms in C++, I don't think constraining the
| editor to one language is a bad idea *if* it caters to these
| unique constructs. E.g. I had a templated PImpl class [1] whose
| template parameter _was_ the implementation. It was a pain to
| `grep` for the classes specializing it, especially when other
| classes extended this PImpl class (sometimes extending a
| specialization, sometimes not).
|
| [1] - https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/pimpl
| Kukumber wrote:
| The editor that puts to shame visual studio, if you can afford
| to, consider supporting
|
| Fast software deserve all of our support
| djmips wrote:
| Great name for your product!
| tempodox wrote:
| The page doesn't say, but this is Windows only.
| [deleted]
| stephc_int13 wrote:
| Subscription model is not a good idea for this type of tool.
|
| The Sublime Text licence is not cheap but is in a better spot,
| IMHO.
| [deleted]
| user2342 wrote:
| As I understood it, the subscription for the beta is optional
| and intended to support development until the first release. I
| would expect a more traditional license model with the release
| version.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| Admirable goals, but doesn't keeping it limited to C++ keep the
| potential for backers limited? Whole-assing one thing is better
| than half-assing two I guess, but it's an interesting initial
| language. Is C++ tooling in particular that bad?
| AlchemistCamp wrote:
| C++ is one of the most popular languages in the world. It's a
| gigantic market and growing every year. The bigger problem is
| getting anyone to notice a new editor at all.
| netr0ute wrote:
| > Is C++ tooling in particular that bad?
|
| It's not that bad, but doing simple stuff like adding a library
| can be a huge pain because you have to know how compilers link
| programs internally to know how to fix the errors you're going
| to get.
| fathyb wrote:
| > Admirable goals, but doesn't keeping it limited to C++ keep
| the potential for backers limited?
|
| Agreed, feels like the C++ support could be packaged into an
| LSP server to support other languages, and let other IDEs
| benefit from its completion, increasing the number of potential
| backers.
|
| > Is C++ tooling in particular that bad?
|
| Yes, at least when it comes to IDE support. Visual Studio on
| Windows gave me the best experience, but it's Windows so I
| don't use it. Xcode is so slow and unstable, it's a shame, it
| used to be great. CLion doesn't scale well with huge projects.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| Ah, OK. I assumed it was just a matter of adding the right
| extension to VSCode or Sublime and you were off to the races.
| If this fills a gap that's great.
| kentonv wrote:
| VSCode integrates with clangd for good jump-to-definition
| and auto-completion. The problem is VSCode, which is built
| on JavaScript/HTML, has become quite slow of late. The
| editor feels sluggish to respond to keypresses, especially
| in large files with lots of includes. It's always just on
| the edge of bearable.
| fathyb wrote:
| In my case VSCode is very responsive, but the clang-based
| language server is pegging an entire CPU core parsing
| millions of C++ files in the project, causing it to not
| respond to editor requests.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| > but the clang-based language server is pegging an
| entire CPU core parsing millions of C++ files
|
| It would be very interesting to see if the 10x Editor
| does better in this case.
| bogwog wrote:
| It's all about the build system. Sublime has built-in
| support for a few, with more available as extensions. Auto-
| complete works out of the box using Sublime's own language-
| agnostic implementation, which obviously isn't perfect, but
| you can also install an LSP.
| erlich wrote:
| I half-expected it to be written in Rust.
| pohl wrote:
| If you're interested in something like that, Lapce is looking
| pretty good, despite being in early stages of development.
| [deleted]
| nickelpro wrote:
| What features here are differentiated from any other editor?
|
| VSC isn't slow for me. Is "speed" the only thing on offer?
| Because giving up the plugin environment is a big ask for that.
| darknavi wrote:
| > VSC isn't slow for me.
|
| How big is your project? With Visual Assist X and our solution
| it can take me upwards of 30 seconds before I can do anything
| after opening the project.
| bigbillheck wrote:
| How often are you opening projects?
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| How does it compare to cscope?
| liquidify wrote:
| Can we get a "namespace" tree that shows namespaces as folders
| (similar to how Intellij works with packages)?
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| Do you mean a navigation bar at the top that shows the scopes?
| If so that is planned after the 1.0 release.
| fprog wrote:
| I wonder what the author thinks of Sublime Text. Fast everything
| (search, opening files, switching projects...) is a big part of
| Sublime's value proposition, one that has so far survived the era
| of VSCode. And AFAIK it is written in C++, and can certainly be
| used to write C++.
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| I've only tried sublime text briefly to be honest. I like its
| speed, but I need something that can open huge Visual Studio
| projects. I also wasn't sure about the C++ parsing which
| requires installing packages.
|
| Just to be clear, 10x supports syntax highlighting for many
| languages, it's only the parser that is C++ specific.
| Thaxll wrote:
| Re-inventing the wheel is very common for IDE / editors, ofc
| this is already done by Sublime but I think in this crowded
| space it's all about perception, maybe Sublime missed the train
| and now you need a new "fresh" IDE to capture the audience.
| gmiller123456 wrote:
| I don't think they "missed the train", just VSCode is free,
| and there's not enough compelling reason to pay for Sublime
| now.
|
| I was a Sublime user for quite a while, and switched to
| VSCode purely because it handled multiple cursors better.
| Ironically, multi-cursor support was my key reason for
| switching to Sublime from Notepad++. VSCode is slower, but
| not enough to actually impact my performance coding.
| bogwog wrote:
| I would definitely choose Sublime over this, only because
| Sublime isn't limited to/focused on a single language. However,
| if I were a paying CLion user, this editor might be a more
| compelling buy if it addresses some pain points, like
| performance.
|
| but then again, Jetbrains is working on their own "polyglot"
| editor called Fleet, which is aiming to be much faster and more
| lightweight than their existing dinosaur IDEs.
| enqk wrote:
| Been using it daily at work on a relatively large C++ codebase
| for a 20 year old native application, and it's really nice to
| have an IDE that starts instantly, indexes and searches quickly
| and integrates well with Visual Studio's sln. The performance is
| just beyond what normal IDEs end up with
| BaculumMeumEst wrote:
| I would need to see a side-by-side comparison of 10x and vs code
| performing equivalent tasks in a large codebase before investing
| time and money in this tool.
| weakfortress wrote:
| [dead]
| CodeVisio wrote:
| >10x is written from the ground up in C++, with a custom UI
| system and GPU rendering.
|
| It would be interesting to know which custom UI.
| thewebcount wrote:
| Yeah, whenever I see something like that, my first thought is,
| "Doesn't work like other apps on your OS, so will be a pain to
| get used to, will have weird inconsistencies, and won't
| integrate properly with OS features that come standard with all
| other apps you run.
| CodeVisio wrote:
| I know. In theory, custom UI doesn't necessarily mean to have
| such freedom to "change" what UI's rules of the OS has been
| established. It should sound more like, I don't use your way
| of rendering stuff.
| stewartlynch8 wrote:
| I mean custom as in "I wrote it myself". It's not based on a
| slow and bloated UI framework. Hopefully it's fairly standard
| from a Windows point of view though.
|
| If you want to know more, I have lots of dev videos on my
| youtube channel. https://www.youtube.com/@puredevsoftware
| twobitshifter wrote:
| To me that's a turnoff, you might get an IDE where the speed is
| faster, but updates and fixes will be slow to come because the
| team could not get over NIH.
| gauddasa wrote:
| At least mention "Windows only" somewhere on home page or even
| better just below the Download buttons. It was shocking to see
| exe file being downloaded without any prompt or warning about
| operating system. Had to dig into FAQ to see that Linux and MacOS
| support are planned.
| [deleted]
| theLiminator wrote:
| Looks pretty great, I won't personally use it, but best of luck
| to the author.
|
| I've been very impressed by lapce's pace of development. Imo,
| open source text editors are going to fully supplant closed-
| source.
|
| Perhaps 10x is a killer app if you only use C++, but for a modern
| day polyglot experience, I'm betting on lapce.
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