[HN Gopher] Tallow in plastics - why?
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Tallow in plastics - why?
Author : mvac
Score : 40 points
Date : 2023-01-02 21:36 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.impact-solutions.co.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.impact-solutions.co.uk)
| stadt wrote:
| Please add year [2016]
| krisoft wrote:
| Why? Did anything change regarding the content of the article?
| andylynch wrote:
| This piece avoids mentioning why it was written- around this
| time, it came to light that new UK bank notes contain beef tallow
| so are problematic for Hindu and vegan people who rightly have
| problems with these replacing old paper notes.
| krisoft wrote:
| I remember when I visited my friend in Cambridge (UK) we ate at
| a quite cool vegetarian restaurant. I was surpised at the time
| that they had a policy of not accepting 5 pound banknotes.
| Later I learned that this was a protest against the tallow
| content of those notes.
|
| https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/dec/03/vegetarian-r...
| meindnoch wrote:
| >rightly have problems with these replacing old paper notes.
|
| Rightly?
| 100pctremote wrote:
| This controversy is mentioned at the conclusion of the article
| analog31 wrote:
| Perhaps the main thing about tallow is that there's a glut of it,
| likewise lard. People want more and more meat, but want it to be
| leaner, creating a surplus of tallow. Also, its use in deep
| fryers, e.g., by the fast food industry, was curtailed when
| vegetable oil became preferable in the market.
|
| A relative of mine worked in a chemical factory in Detroit, that
| made lubricants for metal working. Many of them were either
| formulated directly from tallow and lard, or were soaps. The
| materials were cheap, they worked, and were considered to be
| relatively non-toxic.
|
| One thing I've noticed is that detergent based "soap" has
| disappeared from the market. It used to be that you could get
| detergent bars that contained no soap. They also didn't produce
| soap scum in hard water areas. Remember, "You're not really clean
| until you're Zestfully clean." Well, Zest was a detergent bar.
|
| Today, looking for detergent "soap" at the store, it's gone. Even
| Zest is made from lard or tallow, last time I looked at the
| ingredients. I've banned soap from my house because I hate
| cleaning up the soap scum. We use liquid body wash instead.
|
| /rant
| giantg2 wrote:
| Isn't Dove a detergent?
| ccooffee wrote:
| This submission claims that "traditional banknotes which are
| based on special and expensive paper suffer from poor tear
| properties and they have limited life", and touts tallow-
| dependent plastics as a solution.
|
| US currency is made of a cotton-linen blend, so (pedantically) it
| is not paper. Per US Currency Education Program [1], "it would
| take 4000 double folds, forwards and backwards, to tear a
| banknote". Is this insufficient for UK uses? In my wallet I
| currently have a couple hundred in US currency from years 2003 to
| 2014. None of them are falling apart. (The US Federal Reserve [2]
| estimates that US currency lasts between 4.7 and 22.9 years,
| depending on denomination.)
|
| Given the societal shift to digital payments, cards, etc, is the
| UK hoping to create banknotes that last until the end of time or
| something? (If so, plastics are probably a great choice. But I'm
| guessing that indestructible bills will eventually become quite
| economical to counterfeit, so you'll still want to cycle through
| security measures every few years.)
|
| [1] https://www.uscurrency.gov/about-us/currency-facts [2]
| https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/how-long-is-the-life-spa...
| phphphphp wrote:
| They say "paper" but it was a cotton blend much like USD.
| They're shit talking old notes because it's good for business.
| I haven't touched cash in a while but I don't recall any
| meaningful difference in the durability of "paper" GBP and USD.
|
| Edit: the additional context for this article is at the time
| the notes were released, there was a lot of anger when people
| discovered the notes contained animal products.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| > US currency is made of a cotton-linen blend, so
| (pedantically) it is not paper
|
| Perhaps it isn't paper in the US but rag paper is quite
| definitely paper in the UK.
| londons_explore wrote:
| Old UK banknotes, made of 'paper', had no real durability
| issue.
|
| I think the key benefit of polymer notes is the opportunity for
| far more security features. Holograms, Prismatic effects,
| braille printing, variable transparency, etc.
|
| Also, they're probably cheaper, considering most of Europe uses
| polymer notes too.
|
| The UK had issues with banknote forgery, so a change over to a
| new base material makes a good clean cutoff to say "no paper
| notes are valid anymore", which cuts off forgers too.
|
| The US also has major note forgery issues, but to my knowledge
| they have never taken serious action against fake notes. If
| they did, they would probably switch to polymer too.
| rsynnott wrote:
| Even more pedantically, paper made from cotton and linen is
| paper by most definitions.
|
| Wood pulp paper is by far the most common these days, but
| that's surprisingly recent (mid-19th century). Before that it
| was mostly cotton, linen and hemp.
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| _On_ not _in_.
| mattkevan wrote:
| Our cat goes nuts for some plastic bags - licking and licking
| them like they're the best thing ever.
|
| Granted he's a little weirdo, but I looked into in on the off
| chance there was something wrong with him or the plastics could
| be harmful, but the only thing I could come up with was that some
| bags have more tallow in them than others and that was what he
| was reacting to.
|
| So, therefore, tallow in plastic = tasty for cats.
| bee_rider wrote:
| That can't be good news, ecologically.
| c7DJTLrn wrote:
| What currency out of interest? If it's pounds it's probably not
| the tallow the cat's after ;)
| ipsum2 wrote:
| Stearic acids are used everywhere, including detergents,
| shampoos, soaps, etc. TIL they're made from tallow.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| I did an internship at a plastics manufacturer and the shopping
| bags with tallow left a thin and acrid smoke in the air.
| ggm wrote:
| Banana oil is waiting outside.
|
| Castrol wishes to be remembered to you.
|
| Meanwhile, whales are breathing a sigh of relief
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| I think they mean feed stock animal fats not whales. When you
| eat that hamburger there's a ton of left over animal fats.
| Given the animal is dead, the worst you could do is not use its
| remains in the most productive way possible. Otherwise why did
| it die?
| samwillis wrote:
| Another interesting additive in many plastics is glass fibres or
| beads, they are often used to strengthen the plastic and give it
| slightly different mechanical properties. The downside of the
| glass fillers is that they erode the tools much more quickly
| (glass is very abrasive), kind of the opposite of Tallow which
| helps to keep the plastic flowing over the surfaces better.
|
| On glass filled parts you will often see a small ring around the
| "gate" (gates are where the plastic is injected). The gate is
| under enormous pressure and has a very high flow rate through it,
| so it tends to erode significantly more quickly. To counter that
| the gate is often an inserted part that can be changed out easily
| when servicing the tool, or made from a higher toughened grade of
| steel. Hence a small ring, a witness mark of where the join is.
| progbits wrote:
| The explanation is quite disappointing: Using an alternative
| "might" be worse in few ways. OK, so where is the data, pros and
| cons comparison?
| maxerickson wrote:
| The likely reality is that shifting to a replacement will just
| result in the animal product being dumped. It's likely a
| byproduct of meat consumption that is inexpensive to use
| because there is lots of meat consumption.
|
| Another 'huh?' product that contains animal derived ingredients
| are various dryer sheets (they don't all, but many do).
| flumpmaster wrote:
| An alternate (and growing) use of Tallow is as a feedstock
| for renewable diesel / sustainable aviation fuel production.
|
| Tallow is a traded commodity. It is unlikely to get dumped.
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