[HN Gopher] Christmas with the Tudors
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       Christmas with the Tudors
        
       Author : pepys
       Score  : 19 points
       Date   : 2022-12-30 05:56 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.historytoday.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.historytoday.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | vonpissmarck wrote:
       | the house of tudor is illegitimate
       | 
       | plantagenets will rise again
        
         | throwyawayyyy wrote:
         | I was in Westminster Abbey a few weeks ago. It's arranged, in
         | so far as it's planned at all, to lead you to the tomb of Henry
         | Tudor, who (in sharp distinction to the other kings) is locked
         | away in what resembles a giant iron cage -- presumably owing to
         | his own paranoia.
         | 
         | Anyway, I like the idea of saying that _this_ dynasty which won
         | the throne through vast acts of violence is legitimate, and any
         | subsequent wresting of the throne through the sword is
         | illegitimate. Wasn't legendarily Briton originally settled by
         | refugees from Troy? I wonder if we can determine which of us is
         | the closest male patrilineal descendant of Brutus. Make them
         | king.
         | 
         | Edit: got my ancestors and descendants confused :).
        
         | unity1001 wrote:
         | Your passion and dedication are impressive.
        
         | yetanotherloser wrote:
         | Ah, a Ricardian! Splendid!
        
       | ogogmad wrote:
       | A crucial Christmas entertainment was the temporary government of
       | the Lord of Misrule. At the royal court, in noble houses, Inns of
       | Court and university colleges, Misrule presided, mocking and
       | turning the world upside down. He even had a gibbet for mock
       | executions. Similarly, in cathedrals and churches, boys from the
       | choir were 'appointed' as bishops. Such inversion of the norms
       | was fun and necessary.
       | 
       | This is really strange. Did Manorialism exist at this time, and
       | did the peasants do this with their Lord?
        
         | sgt101 wrote:
         | Yes, and yes... But of course, if they went too far the rest of
         | the year was fit for regrets!
        
         | hprotagonist wrote:
         | it's also exactly on-brand for the holiday: what starker
         | example of "Freaky Friday" inversion of social order is there
         | than the Incarnation, and as the child of an itinerant nobody
         | at the ass-end of the world, to boot? And this, proclaimed as
         | good news.
         | 
         | I feel like we've lost something important in the loss of this
         | yearly moment of re-enactment of incarnation's radical
         | _weirdness_ and challenge to establishment; the 14th century
         | cleric's remarks in the article seem pretty wise.
         | 
         |  _Don't wine skins and barrels burst very often if the air-hole
         | is not opened from time to time? We too are old barrels._
        
       | sorokod wrote:
       | In the illustration at the top of the article, the man in the
       | foreground looks like he is a news reporter being filmed by the
       | man on his left.
        
       | cbfrench wrote:
       | Here is bit more information on the lovely custom of the "boy
       | bishop," which has made a return in some places, both Roman
       | Catholic and Anglican:
       | https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2022/12/the-feast-of-c...
       | (Under the "Customs" heading.)
       | 
       | An amusing detail from the article: "Originally the custom was
       | meant to foster vocations to the priesthood by giving youngsters
       | a taste of liturgical officiating, but once it moved to within
       | the Twelve Days of Christmas, it became linked with more riotous
       | topsy-turvy customs like the Feast of the Ass or the Lord of
       | Misrule. In an effort to put an end to this nonsense, Church
       | authorities decided to move the custom to the feast of St.
       | Nicholas on December 6, safely out of the way of the Christmas
       | mayhem. The plan, however, backfired. Instead of stemming abuses,
       | it prolonged them: the Boy Bishop would now preside from December
       | 6 to December 28."
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-30 23:01 UTC)