[HN Gopher] What can we learn from Barnes and Noble's surprising...
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What can we learn from Barnes and Noble's surprising turnaround?
Author : AlbertCory
Score : 54 points
Date : 2022-12-28 21:07 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tedgioia.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (tedgioia.substack.com)
| slimginz wrote:
| I hope that this will be used in the future as an example of why
| MBAs don't always make good CEOs. You may be the best person in
| the world when it comes to managing a company, but if you're not
| knowledgeable and passionate about the product you're making
| and/or selling then you're going to not do very well. Off the top
| of my head I can think of 2 more examples: Apple before and after
| Steve Jobs returned and AMD before and after Lisa Su was
| appointed CEO.
| irjustin wrote:
| > passionate about the product you're making and/or selling
| then you're going to not do very well
|
| 100% agreed. Not that it isn't possible, but I'd like to start
| with a product person because a product person will fight for
| what matters to the customer and I'd prefer to be in that camp.
|
| Satya Nadella after Balmer would be another example. Balmer did
| great things for MSFT stock ticker, but so much of the 90's
| love was lost. Satya has a massive uphill battle but with
| Github, VSCode and other efforts - I do believe he sincerely
| cares.
| brycelarkin wrote:
| Both Barnes and Noble and Waterstones are owned by the same
| hedge fund (Elliot Management).
|
| Looks like the hedge fund installed the new ceo when they
| purchased Barnes and Noble.
|
| That hedge fund is probably filled with MBAs.
| christophilus wrote:
| I see it all the time in computer science. People become
| programmers because the pay is good. But without a love for the
| craft, they end up either hating life or being mediocre or
| both. It really does help to love what you do.
| pryelluw wrote:
| Not love, but have natural inclination towards it. That
| drives a sense of wonder to learn more.
|
| Love comes and goes. Wonder is forever.
| grugagag wrote:
| Some of that liking what you do can also be attributed to
| chance in the career path one stumbles upon. I've had
| programming gigs that I loved and gigs that turned out, after
| slowly boiling like a frog in a pan, were disfunctional and
| skill eroding.
| manimino wrote:
| I once interviewed at a company for a job that was pretty much
| a dream job - very niche passion. Everyone there was very into
| that niche.
|
| Except for the CEO, who prided himself on not knowing anything
| about the field. He saw not knowing the niche as a perk; he'd
| focus on the "business side" only, leaving the rest to everyone
| else.
|
| Got the offer, turned it down because of that.
| Karrot_Kream wrote:
| Idk, I can see that as being healthy (in the abstract; you
| were there in person so I'll bet you had a much higher signal
| than I do as an internet commenter.) I've definitely seen
| non-profits be sunk in by groupthink when being too close to
| a problem. Sometimes an outside perspective is what you need
| to reframe your approach, as long as it's tempered by lots of
| insider expertise.
| [deleted]
| snickerbockers wrote:
| I shop at Barnes and Noble a lot, and I even subscribe to their
| membership program (for an annual fee I get 10% off purchases in-
| store and free shipping online). i dislike the way physical books
| take up so much space in my apartment but at the same time I
| can't in good faith buy e-books when they're covered in draconian
| DRM. I also can't get over the incident from the early 10s when
| Amazon deleted 1984 off of their customers' kindles.
|
| My apartment is running out of space for all these books, and
| maybe the solution to this is that I need to borrow from the
| library more often instead of buying my own books. I really wish
| I could have an e-reader, but again, I don't want to spend money
| on things that will lock me into a single vendor indefinitely and
| might just arbitrarily go away.
|
| I learned my lesson in the early-00s when online music purchases
| were DRM'd and I lost a lot of my collection due to Yahoo music
| shutting down. I also remember one of the problems being that
| purchases made in one store would not be compatible with a
| competitor's MP3 player, which locked you into a single vendor.
| Couldn't switch to iPod because it didn't work with the DRM that
| was designed for my Dell DJ (which was a POS that broke all the
| time but I had to stick with it because of my existing music
| collection).
|
| I'd hate to have that same problem but with books instead of
| music.
| AndrewDucker wrote:
| I strip the DRM off of books the moment I buy them. Check that
| this is possible for you too, and you'll end up with a
| collection of DRM-free epub files that you can back up as you
| like.
| imtyler wrote:
| I assume this is against the EULA of most retailers and would
| open your account to possible deletion. Not saying that it's
| likely, but DRM restrictions seem like a matter of principle
| to some people. Even if you can strip the DRM you still don't
| legally own the product.
| verisimi wrote:
| Great points.
|
| Books or music as a service, when you think you've bought them,
| is terrible.
| Waterluvian wrote:
| Sell or donate books, too! Just because you bought something
| that lasts for ages, doesn't mean that's where you get the
| value.
|
| I organize by age (using a ring buffer method) and have an
| honest "am I going to read this again?" review of my oldest
| shelf every few months or so.
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| https://github.com/noDRM/DeDRM_tools
| cocacola1 wrote:
| I don't often buy books at Barnes & Noble, but it is where I buy
| most of my Criterions.
| flappyeagle wrote:
| Anecdote: B&N was by far the best place to buy x-mas gifts this
| year, especially for kids.
| wwweston wrote:
| If this isn't by design, it's by very happy accidental
| engagement with the fact that when it comes to media and
| related things, the time physical copies of it matter most are
| gifting-times. It just _feels_ more genuinely gift-y to hand
| someone the gift than message them with it.
|
| And B&N has become a media-heavy giftshop.
| mcast wrote:
| I wish Amazon brought back their 4-Star physical retail stores,
| it was a great place to buy gifts in person. The concept was
| simple: everything in the store was an item that was rated at
| least 4.0 stars online and there was an electronic price tag
| that kept its price in sync with the online version.
| browningstreet wrote:
| I spent time at the Walnut Creek one -- it was a good
| execution of a kind of obvious idea. It was weird that they
| shut them down. That said -- smaller versions of the same
| format in airports/commute-centers would be great.
| TylerE wrote:
| Serious question: how many products on Amazon aren't rated at
| least 4.0. Even the crappiest Chinese alphabet brand products
| are typically rated like 4.3-4.5.
| themadturk wrote:
| I went to a Four Star store just once, to trade in a dying
| Kindle. The customer service was incredible, and the trade-in
| was actually better than promised online. I was sad to see
| them close.
| ProAm wrote:
| It's hard to trust Amazon with quality anything these days. I
| wouldn't shop there as for I think the employees would be
| less than helpful or happy to be there and Id be constantly
| worried about counterfeits or returns.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| Also important to take into account for why this method is
| successful is that people write posts like this which make you
| really want to go check it out. Customers who are passionate
| about how your business is run.
|
| Honestly, if I was more skeptical + motivated, I'd be looking
| into if this post was actually a paid ad because my reaction is
| "where is the closest Barnes and Noble?"
| AlbertCory wrote:
| Ted Gioia is not a shill for B&N. He's actually more of a music
| writer. And other things.
| ars wrote:
| Something I took away from this is they don't discount books,
| they don't compete on price.
|
| And that makes sense, anyone looking for a good price is going
| online, if you are in the store you are not price sensitive. And
| of course this means B&N is much more profitable than they would
| be otherwise.
|
| Lowes is doing this too - their prices for plumbing products are
| insane - $12 for something that goes for $2 online, but they are
| betting that anyone buying in the store needs it _NOW_ and will
| pay anything.
| benced wrote:
| I'm always skeptical of turnaround stories that claim to be all
| about the love of the product or whatever. I'm sure that works
| sometimes - Apple in the aughts obviously - but realistically
| running a public company is a more hard nosed endeavor.
| kken wrote:
| Interesting insight and speculation from the comment section of
| the article:
|
| >Jane Friedman
|
| >Speaking as a publishing industry reporter & observer, I
| couldn't agree more with your assessment of James Daunt's
| leadership and business strategy. Unfortunately, the picture
| isn't quite as bright for B&N as those numbers would have you
| believe. B&N stores were once quite large (e.g., 25,000 square
| feet); the new stores opening are less than half that in some
| cases. And they're largely re-opening stores that closed during
| the pandemic.
|
| >It's also concerning that during a record two years for book
| sales (the pandemic was great for book sales of all kinds),
| Barnes & Noble didn't see the same percentage increase,
| indicating they've lost market share. Some industry insiders
| believe the current private equity owner is trying to position
| the company favorably for sale.
| jdhn wrote:
| A Barnes & Noble near my parents moved from their original
| space at one end of the mall to the other end. This new space
| is smaller than their original space by about half or two
| thirds. While they have fewer materials on the shelves (and
| fewer shelves), it seems more lively than the original spot
| did, probably because there's fewer space for the number of
| people who go there. I bet that the company would see that as a
| fair tradeoff.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| So what if the stores are smaller? In retail it's sales per sq.
| foot that counts.
| softwaredoug wrote:
| I wish there was a book store with a great and relatively up to
| date technical book section. I would spend a lot of time there.
|
| I'm not even talking up to date with the latest ChatGPT hotness,
| but any serious programming books written in the last 7 years -
| especially timeless classics that matter regardless of the
| technology. Rather that the same Sam's Learn C++ book that's been
| gathering dust for 20 years.
|
| I _suspect_ there actually is a market there, but the problem is
| you need a very particular book store manager that can curate
| this well. I guess it would have to be a labor of love, as
| financially the people who would do this well are busy making
| much more money as developers.
| matt_heimer wrote:
| A micro library at a maker space might be a better option.
| blueridge wrote:
| I'm working on opening a book store: online only, highly
| opinionated and curated inventory, mostly books published
| before 1980 (with exceptions), no current bestsellers, doubling
| down on store design (mostly text with cover images hidden by
| default), speed and ease of use, how recommendations (not
| reviews) are displayed, etc.
| bokchoi wrote:
| Pour one out for Powell's technical bookstore in Portland. I
| was sad when it closed in 2010.
| benced wrote:
| Seattle has one https://www.adasbooks.com/content/store
| ineedasername wrote:
| B&N used to have this. It was also one of the most shoplifted
| sections people would steal from. The books were expensive and
| certain ones could always be easily flipped online.
| grugagag wrote:
| I had no idea technical books were the target to shoplifters.
| I imagine it wasn't techies stealing these but other
| opportunists.
|
| I never minded buying IT books even when I wasn't in the best
| financial situation. 40-50 bucks for a good book could bring
| almost limitless rewards. One thing though, I needed to
| browse and skim through the book to decide whether it was a
| purchase or not. Most books I bought like that were
| thoroughly studied. I can't say the same thing about books I
| bought online though.
| Jtsummers wrote:
| This has been highly dependent on the particular B&N, in my
| experience. One in Raleigh (may have technically been Cary,
| NC, this was 15 years or so ago) had Knuth's _TAOCP_ on the
| shelves, never seen that anywhere else. Certainly not in
| towns with less technical inclination (a town I lived in in
| GA for a decade, for instance, had a miserable technical
| section) where the technical book section was dominated by
| Windows and MS Office how-tos.
| AlbertCory wrote:
| There was a whole chain of them: Computer Literacy. Killed by
| the Web, I guess.
| robga wrote:
| Removing these books was what Daunt did at Waterstones.
|
| "Daunt also removed legal textbooks, technical guides,
| reference books from the shelves. In return, he stocked more
| books that customers were delighted to discover which led to an
| increase in sales." [0]
|
| If there is "a market there", it's probably as a specialised
| store.
|
| [0] https://startupmarketer.co/how-a-physical-bookseller-
| turned-...
| account-5 wrote:
| What an excellent article.
|
| I have lived bookshops since I was young, I always felt like I
| might find something amazing and secret in them. They held a kind
| of mystic for me (1990s).
|
| This changed in the 2000s. I do miss the massive borders books we
| had. I do have to say the all the Waterstones I've been into in
| the last 15 years have all those toys, calenders, etc the OP
| doesn't like; and the bigger stores all have Costas.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| There's a new Barnes and Noble nearby me (just opened last year)
| and it is like no other B&N I've seen. It's honestly a direct
| carbon copy of Amazon's physical book store. All of the shelves
| have books with the covers out (just like Amazon's store
| pioneered), not tightly packed spine to spine. This means the
| selection is much, much, much smaller. It's more like an airport
| book store and just has a handful of the best sellers (despite
| being a huge physical footprint of a store). Games, toys, and a
| huge coffee shop take up most of the space. You would never go
| here with a specific book in mind to find, unless it was a
| massive bestseller. It's interesting and I'm curious to see how
| it does, but it's definitely not a general bookstore anymore.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| Usually stores with constrained inventory by design are a sign
| that the company is on the upswing because they are
| aggressively controlling inventory.
|
| When you see a store bulk up with crap stuffed everywhere, it's
| often tied to loading up on debt and sometimes bankruptcy risk.
|
| IMO, Barnes and Noble sees an opportunity with the struggles of
| Amazon in retail and the decline of Starbucks. Starbucks used
| to pride itself as a "third place"... now the drive through is
| the priority, the seating has been reduced, and the management
| seems more interested in fighting labor than having happy
| hospitality employees.
|
| People who read tend to have money. It seems like a winning
| combination to have people with money hanging out in your
| retail establishment. Plus they can riff off of Target's super
| successful pickup model that is every mom's favorite thing
| ever.
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