[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Have You Tried Homesteading?
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       Ask HN: Have You Tried Homesteading?
        
       I've been kicking around the idea of living comparatively off-grid
       for a while, and my family is on board with the idea.  Have you
       ever done this, or started researching into it? With a steady-
       enough income stream via remote work and reliable internet, is a
       "fully remote" existence a good idea?  Or are there downsides to
       the approach? I'm not exactly a "hang out with people" type, and
       I'm racking my brain trying to talk myself out of the thought, but
       every risk seems to come with opportunities. Am I missing
       something?
        
       Author : Phileosopher
       Score  : 15 points
       Date   : 2022-12-26 20:18 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | There is a wealth of homesteaders on YouTube who discuss every
       | facet of the life and its challenges. They are often frank. Check
       | there. That's the best place I've seen. Reddit is decent, too.
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | If you have any children, I'd highly advise against it. I grew up
       | near Detroit before my family moved into the middle of nowhere,
       | and living out there was more developmentally stunting than
       | anything else in my life. Having nowhere to go and nobody to talk
       | to is a pretty huge roadblock for anyone's personal development,
       | let alone a child living out their formative years.
       | 
       | Now that I'm more traveled I can understand the appeal of
       | settling down away from everything, but I'm not sure if I can
       | recommend it long-term. Maybe try moving out to a smaller town or
       | village and seeing how that suits you.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | You seem to have come out alright though? But you are on point
         | that it can be pretty rough for kids, especially when the
         | neighbors are far away or don't have any children in roughly
         | the same age bracket.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | It just isn't right to make a kid live that way, in my
           | opinion. Growing up, you need a strong support group of non-
           | family peers to help you through personal and extrapersonal
           | struggles. I was lucky enough to attend a public school, if I
           | was homeschooled then I may have lost my mind completely. I'd
           | spend all my free time reading books and daydreaming before I
           | pieced together my first computer.
           | 
           | My point isn't to dramatize all this, just to highlight that
           | you should probably prioritize the wellbeing of your children
           | if you have any. Homesteading is great when you've seen the
           | world and want to relax in satisfaction from your detatchment
           | to society. It's the worst thing in the world when you're a
           | curious child oblivious to reality.
        
             | jacquesm wrote:
             | There are some degrees to this though: agreed that
             | homeschooling is on another level. But plenty of kids live
             | in rural environments and come out fine.
             | 
             | I think the biggest question is whether or not there is a
             | sufficiently large base of other kids living nearby and
             | whether or not kids can safely get around.
             | 
             | Cities have their own trade-offs and I'm not quite sure
             | what the best spot is to raise kids after having seen a
             | large range of options, all I see is a mixture of drawbacks
             | and benefits for each.
             | 
             | Right now I live in a 40k people town near a major city.
             | This seems to be a nice optimum: have the big city when you
             | want it, but much better quality of life and more space.
             | I'm not sure my kids would benefit from living more rural
             | or more in a city, but if that changes we'll be happy to
             | move to maximize their chances.
        
               | cpp_frog wrote:
               | I grew up in Santiago, Chile, a city with a population of
               | 7M and lived and went to school in the very center of it.
               | Today I have nothing that resembles a social life and
               | school was torture (never bullied, just bored to tears).
               | I was only interested in math, programming, machines, and
               | infrequently reading literary classics. Did this and
               | that, standardized evaluations, even represented my
               | country at international math contests. Good grades but
               | hated every minute of school.
               | 
               | This, coupled with high prices for owning a house and
               | crime in a dense city has prompted me to daydream
               | everyday about going to the country and building my
               | house. Even so far as becoming part of a religious group.
               | Maybe someone needs to ground me? But every reason people
               | mention (working hard, social life, school) doesn't
               | change my mind, _which worries me since it shows my bias
               | might be too strong_. I haven 't mentioned the religious
               | thing to my parents who are both atheists, they'll think
               | I'm crazy.
        
               | moistly wrote:
               | My experience of rural life in north-central BC says that
               | the kids mostly don't come out fine. The people living
               | out there by and large have rejected society. Child abuse
               | was rampant. A kid in my elementary class slept with farm
               | animals to stay warm because the family was too poor to
               | afford electric. Another was raising her siblings because
               | her parent would fuck off for weeks at a time. Poverty,
               | malnutrition, sexual abuse, abandonment, beatings,
               | untreated injuries & illnesses, my classroom had it all.
               | 
               | Most adults who fuck off into the hinterland are not
               | well-functioning, responsible, productive people.
               | 
               | Your 40k town and "sufficiently large base of other kids"
               | do not describe rural living IMO.
        
       | HN_is_for_gemes wrote:
       | I've done it three times. Once on Three acres, then with my wife
       | on 80 acres and now we have downsized to 2 acres.
       | 
       | I could talk ALL DAY about the +/- but youll never know till you
       | do it.
       | 
       | Can you pull a dead fetus out of a sick goat at 3am in the middle
       | of winter? I have. Can you load a full size pig with an injured
       | back foot into the back of a truck, probably not but I've done
       | that too.
       | 
       | Do you like living around animals that could kill you if you look
       | at them wrong? A bull is absolutely nothing to fuck with. Do you
       | want to be 15-30 minutes away from the closest gas/food/hospital?
       | 
       | I say do it but to be honest, most people can't, won't and don't
       | want to even HEAR about the realities of farm life let alone do
       | it themselves.
        
         | codingdave wrote:
         | It doesn't have to be like that. I've done it on 6 acres on the
         | edge of a town, 3 minutes from groceries, all my kids walked to
         | school. You also don't have to do livestock - you can just grow
         | plants. "Homesteading" does not have to be "farm life". There
         | are huge middle grounds.
         | 
         | That being said, no matter where you land, it will be work.
         | Probably more than people think. The weather will dictate what
         | you do. And for the first couple years as you build skills,
         | tools, and infrastructure, your "free" food will be the most
         | expensive food you've ever had.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Indeed. It think a lot of people romanticize this sort of thing
         | without actually looking at it clearly. But props to the OP for
         | at least asking.
        
       | jacquesm wrote:
       | I've lived on St. Josephs Island, Canada for a couple of years.
       | The biggest downside for me was how much time was spent shoveling
       | snow every year, if I were to do something like that ever again
       | I'd do it in a place where the climate does not eat up half your
       | time or so.
       | 
       | As for being 'not the hang out with people' type, beware: your
       | family may be on board with it now, but it looks like you might
       | be the one in their element, and they may not be after a while.
       | And that can get quite tricky, especially for kids when they get
       | a bit older.
       | 
       | Also: go take as advanced a first aid course as you can afford.
       | You don't need to be able to do brain surgery but it helps if you
       | know how to set a broken bone and do a lot of other common things
       | because the nearest ER may well be too far away to be useful.
       | 
       | Other downsides: hauling groceries across any distance requires
       | careful planning, especially if you only plan on doing this once
       | a month or even less frequent, during the Canadian winters we
       | sometimes did for three weeks or longer without free groceries
       | and that can really work against you in many ways so plan your
       | diet well and well in advance to make sure you get enough of
       | everything that your body requires to stay healthy.
       | 
       | For energy I used solar panels (2x8 on trackers, though I would
       | just install them fixed if I did that again) and a small home
       | brew windmill. Between those we very rarely had to back that up
       | with a small generator.
       | 
       | Fresh water came from a well, but it was rather high in sulfur
       | content and that made it smell quite bad, this you may well end
       | up missing as well, clean tapwater is a luxury that you only
       | really come to appreciate when you don't have it.
        
       | LinuxBender wrote:
       | _Have You Tried Homesteading?_
       | 
       | Yes and no. I am not entirely off grid. I have surprisingly
       | reliable electricity and even have fiber internet thanks to a
       | government grant. My goal was not to homestead but rather I have
       | goals that require a rural property where building codes are not
       | highly restrictive and where I can have enough land to be off
       | grid if it came to that. So my goal was not to homestead but
       | rather to be independent and some day have a large steel barn
       | that will have climate controlled space for chickens and enough
       | land for solar panels, horses, chickens, maybe an insulated geo-
       | thermal greenhouse. My to-do list is rather long and finding
       | resources locally even for materials is problematic. I will
       | likely have to ship in materials from several hours away. I am
       | retired and take care of both domestic and wild animals because
       | that is what I enjoy doing. If I depended on this for money it
       | would be much more stressful. If making a living off this was my
       | goal then my preference would be to raise show/racing horses as
       | they can potentially sell for a lot of money, downside being I
       | would have to not get attached to them.
       | 
       | So I guess I would ask what your end-goals are and if
       | homesteading helps you reach those goals. Are you the self
       | sufficient type, meaning you can fix most things that are
       | critical to you? I ask because in some _or most_ rural areas
       | there may be small businesses that can fix some things but you
       | may find that many of them are _faking it to make it_ so to
       | speak.
       | 
       |  _I 'm not exactly a "hang out with people" type_
       | 
       | That's not required however being able to socialize at least a
       | little bit with your neighbors can be very important when moving
       | to a very rural area, especially if you do plan to go entirely
       | off grid. A network of neighbors can be very important when bad
       | things happen or even when you or they have tools and/or
       | equipment that the other does not have.
       | 
       | Is homesteading the goal or the tool to achieve your goals? Are
       | you perhaps looking for more isolation from big cities? If
       | isolation is the goal you actually have more options and should
       | research what locations made proper use of their government
       | grants for internet.
        
         | Phileosopher wrote:
         | For me, it's a conflation of goals:
         | 
         | 1. I'm a formerly reckless guy in my mid-30's, and I've wanted
         | to try it for about a decade or so, so it seems like a
         | challenging adventure.
         | 
         | 2. My hobbies and interests seem to constantly preoccupy with
         | survival and understanding how the world works. I did a stint
         | WWOOFing, and found it extremely enriching.
         | 
         | 3. Suburbia and urban living _really_ rub me the wrong way. I
         | like to fix and work with things more than  "trust experts". I
         | was very fortunate to marry someone who thinks the same way.
         | 
         | 4. In a political sense (i.e., "people power"), I anticipate
         | that if this goes well I can build a small town someday. My
         | wife jokes it as a "tech commune", but I'm still hammering out
         | details on what it'd take.
         | 
         | I guess it's my own "mid-life crisis", where I realize that I'm
         | significantly better at understanding and fixing everything
         | than winning friends and influencing people.
         | 
         | Edit: I keep forgetting that formatting thing where 2 line
         | breaks is a paragraph break on HN.
        
           | LinuxBender wrote:
           | _I was very fortunate to marry someone who thinks the same
           | way._
           | 
           | That is incredible. I mean, seriously that is probably the
           | best thing going for you.
           | 
           |  _I anticipate that if this goes well I can build a small
           | town someday._
           | 
           | Well that is quite a large project. That's a bit bigger than
           | homesteading. There are videos on Youtube of people building
           | out small ISP's and showing all the challenges they had. I
           | wish you luck on your project. I can envision the obstacles
           | you will face but it sounds like you are the right person to
           | do it and being on HN I can only assume you will research
           | every step of the way to avoid the money pits and mazes of
           | regulations. I hope you make a video log of everything but
           | wait until it is done to publish it to avoid the Youtube
           | griefers and nay-sayers.
        
       | UI_at_80x24 wrote:
       | You will learn more about yourself if you try. Why live with
       | self-imposed limits?
       | 
       | Make sure you triple-check your bandwidth requirements and
       | options before you bite the bullet.
       | 
       | Try to ease into it. 2-4 days at a time can be a great way to
       | start getting used to the change that would be needed.
        
       | rcarr wrote:
       | Give it ten to twenty years for large battery storage to get
       | cheap, solar panels prices to drop even further, online education
       | options to get better and high quality satellite internet to
       | become prolific and I think you'll see more and more people opt
       | for this kind of lifestyle. You'll most likely get more and more
       | pre fab kits and shipping container style homes you can just slot
       | together and drop anywhere. It would also be a rational response
       | if the insanely high house price inflation/insanely low wage
       | inflation trajectory continues.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-26 23:01 UTC)