[HN Gopher] The US-Canada border cuts through the Haskell Free L...
___________________________________________________________________
The US-Canada border cuts through the Haskell Free Library and
Opera House
Author : greggarious
Score : 57 points
Date : 2022-12-26 16:12 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.aljazeera.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.aljazeera.com)
| no_wizard wrote:
| one piece that is omitted from this is how the border is
| enforced. From the looks of it, unless you're looking at becoming
| employed here they don't really check your citizenship. That's a
| win in my book.
|
| Reminds me that when I was a kid you could travel to / from
| Canada without a passport (only nation with that privilege if I
| recall correctly) and now you can't. I recall no real good
| reasoning for it other than the DOH wanted to close the loop
| hole, without any real evidence it was a cause of issues
| jupp0r wrote:
| This is completely normal inside the EU. You barely notice
| you're in another country sometimes.
| kejaed wrote:
| You still can as a kid via land, but a birth certificate is
| required. The parents do need passports though...
| morelisp wrote:
| Not only Canada; also Bermuda and fewer restrictions for
| Mexico. All gone now.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Travel_Init...
| mynameisvlad wrote:
| The page you linked mentions _several_ non-passport
| alternatives.
|
| Yes, the requirements are stricter in that you have to prove
| citizenship _in some way_ but there are multiple ways to do
| that which are WHTI-compliant.
| morelisp wrote:
| You mean all the things just as hard to get as a passport,
| some invented specifically to be used for this new program?
| Sure, I guess you could get one of those instead. But
| there's no reason to get one of them rather than a passport
| except as a fig leaf for people to say a passport "isn't
| mandatory".
|
| Or, and bear with me for a second, we could have kept
| freedoms we had on September 10th, 2001.
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| It's interesting to see the efforts to lock down our once
| permeable borders succeeding in recent decades. It seems that for
| much of our history we had no issue with free passage across, but
| we have in my lifetime used the politics of fear to militarize
| our borders. Obviously some will disagree but this seems to me a
| regressive change.
| [deleted]
| klyrs wrote:
| Freedom of movement is tenuous, and one of the greater
| paradoxes of the modern "libertarian" movement. The freedom
| isn't even universally supported on the left -- democratic
| socialist countries rely on high taxes and low economic
| inequality to maintain their systems, which, the reasoning
| goes, is unsustainable in the face of an unrestricted influx of
| economic refugees.
| lambdasquirrel wrote:
| Not sure why this is being downvoted.
|
| > The freedom isn't even universally supported on the left
|
| In the U.S., the left broadly supports immigration as well as
| freedom of movement. But if you take a peep at European
| politics, and even parts of the left in Canada, you might
| find that support for immigration and freedom-of-movement
| really is more complicated.
|
| It's one of those weird usages of terminology that the left
| in the U.S. is described as "liberal." In Europe and Canada,
| liberal means center-right. But at least in this case,
| calling the American left liberal is appropriate.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > The freedom isn't even universally supported on the left
|
| Freedom of movement is tied to left _internationalism_ , but
| radical (i.e., all-at-once/revolutionary) internationalism is
| not as strong as it once was, and even people that see
| freedom of movement as a long-term goal often see
| unrestricted freedom of movement as having unacceptable costs
| between states that aren't both much further along than any
| actually are as having practical problems.
| jupp0r wrote:
| Having been born in East Germany I can assure you that the
| "Left" is not a proponent of free movement and that they will
| gladly attempt to shoot you for trying to escape from
| socialist paradise.
|
| Calling US democrats "socialist" for wanting things like
| universal free health care makes me cringe in light of that.
| serial_dev wrote:
| > The freedom isn't even universally supported on the left
|
| It could be argued from a "leftist" position (whatever that
| means nowadays) that: it's mostly working class people that
| need to compete with immigrants. If the immigrants are
| undocumented or very poor, they are more likely to tolerate
| lower wages and unsafe working conditions, meaning that I (if
| I was a working class American) would have less negotiating
| power when it comes to my wages and work conditions, as there
| are plenty of people who would be happy to replace me. Also,
| working class people are more likely to meet with the
| immigrants that are engaged in illegal activities, whereas if
| you are middle-upper class or rich, you'll meet the educated,
| immigrants that maybe help your business growing or at the
| very least help you keep your household running.
|
| I'm just trying to show a different "leftist" take, I don't
| really have a strong opinion on this issue as I believe there
| are good people on both sides and figuring out the best
| approach is basically impossible.
| rascul wrote:
| > It could be argued from a "leftist" position (whatever
| that means nowadays) that: it's mostly working class people
| that need to compete with immigrants. If the immigrants are
| undocumented or very poor, they are more likely to tolerate
| lower wages and unsafe working conditions, meaning that I
| (if I was a working class American) would have less
| negotiating power when it comes to my wages and work
| conditions, as there are plenty of people who would be
| happy to replace me.
|
| That sounds very similar to the "they're stealing our jobs"
| argument I hear sometimes from people on the right.
| adalacelove wrote:
| And on a lot of countries the right has gained support
| within the working class
| TaylorAlexander wrote:
| What you say is correct, but I am reminded of something David
| Harvey says: "wealth redistribution is the lowest form of
| socialism."
|
| If you have true community ownership of the means of
| production, then people gain wealth by working for
| cooperatives, not by state guaranteed benefits. In such a
| system I would think there is more flexibility in how
| benefits are distributed.
| [deleted]
| FpUser wrote:
| Yes this is very regressive change. I remember times when I
| could drive into US and back with just regular driver license.
| I see a zero reason other than turning people into a cattle for
| sacrificing freedom of movement.
| kevin_thibedeau wrote:
| I like this log used to protect the border:
|
| https://www.google.com/maps/@45.0108844,-73.3349375,3a,75y,1...
| goodcanadian wrote:
| While the border looks extremely porous, the reality is that it
| is heavily monitored. You will be met by the police or border
| patrol if you cross in the wrong place or even if you simply
| loiter near the border.
| blamazon wrote:
| I've spent time in a few of these wacky rural Canadian border
| places and for the places I went to, it didn't seem that
| likely one'd be caught in many spots, it's just the
| consequences if one does are potentially quite severe, and
| there's a pretty good degree of self policing of the honor
| system as word gets around a small town real fast. (Unless
| enough people wish to keep certain crossings secret...
| interesting idea.)
|
| Although a somewhat common story I've heard is youths goofing
| around on ATVs or snowmobiles being intercepted and let off
| with a strict warning. Perhaps somewhat mythologically passed
| down generation to generation.
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| Sounds about right. The CA-US border is extremely long and
| sparsely populated in most areas. Reckless snowmobile use
| is a common thing in the northern lower 50. The worst is
| drunk snowmobilers going 90 mph.
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| northern lower 50?
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I wouldn't say "will", but yeah, there is a risk.
| sacnoradhq wrote:
| That's not a log, it's a military-grade, arboreal-derived
| perimeter defense system to stop all unapproved international
| vehicular traffic.
| ralph84 wrote:
| Looking at Google Maps it appears several other buildings in the
| area also straddle the border. The reporter mentioned an
| insurance dispute in passing, but it would be interesting to have
| more details on how it all works from a legal perspective.
| Presumably they get two different property tax bills. Are two
| different building codes enforced depending on which part of the
| building you're in?
| red_phone wrote:
| I'd imagine many of the same considerations come into play when
| a structure straddles a state line in the US. I wonder how
| that's handled?
| klipt wrote:
| International borders are much more complicated. For example
| a Canadian citizen couldn't work on the US side without a
| visa and vice versa.
| shagie wrote:
| At the North Carolina-Virginia border, a family makes its
| home in both states - https://www.pilotonline.com/news/articl
| e_738da14c-7322-11e8-... (I'd recommend using reader mode if
| your browser supports it)
|
| (This is a good one) What if your home was in two different
| states? Changes to the North, South Carolina border leave
| residents frustrated - https://abc11.com/north-carolina-nc-
| south-sc/1896481/
|
| > James Tanner, the Gaston County tax director, said the
| state will have to refer to old laws regarding residency for
| houses the border now divides.
|
| > "What is going to be that main decision is they go back to
| the old voter guidelines or rules," Tanner said. "And that's
| where the head of household lays down to sleep. So basically
| where the master bedroom is located in that property,
| whichever side that's on is going be dependent on where the
| residence is."
|
| > The border legislation passed in both states said that
| residents who moved from North Carolina to South Carolina
| will remain eligible for North Carolina in-state tuition for
| 10 years after the change, provided that they remain on the
| same property that was formerly in North Carolina. Residents
| whose homes moved from South Carolina to North Carolina are
| eligible for South Carolina in-state tuition for two years
| after the change.
|
| > ...
|
| > Dee and Glenn Martin, age 88 and 90, live just a few houses
| away from the Ingold family, and their property was moved
| entirely from South Carolina to North Carolina. Glenn has a
| number of significant health issues, including pulmonary
| fibrosis. He spends most days at home, seated in his favorite
| armchair and attached to a tank of oxygen while Dee serves as
| his primary caretaker.
|
| > Under South Carolina's healthcare provisions, he was
| allowed at-home visits from a primary care physician.
| Although the Martins have found a North Carolina doctor to
| serve as Glenn's primary care physician, they remain unsure
| what kind of access they will have to at-home care.
|
| ---
|
| Apparently, these are known as Line houses... and there's a
| Wikipedia article on them.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_house
|
| Some Straight Dope from 2013
| https://boards.straightdope.com/t/property-spanning-two-
| stat...
|
| (on the different states and their quarantine requirements in
| 2020) https://www.heraldnews.com/story/special/special-
| sections/20...
|
| > People like Kemp need to take some time to describe
| precisely where they live. He walks in his front door in
| Rhode Island, but his kitchen is in Connecticut. He votes in
| Rhode Island, which is also where his car is registered, but
| he sleeps in Connecticut.
|
| > Of course, he pays taxes to both towns.
|
| > ...
|
| > Several people approached for this story living on the
| border said they'd rather not be quoted in an article about
| how they were following the requirements because, generally
| speaking, they were not.
|
| > ...
|
| > Even before COVID, there were complications on state
| borders. What school do your kids go to? What cable service
| do you get? To whom do you pay taxes, and in what amount? Who
| plows your road? When you need to get your property fixed, do
| you need a contractor licensed in both states?
|
| > For Father D. Timothy O'Mara, pastor of St. Paul's Church
| in Blackstone, Massachusetts, and also North Smithfield,
| Rhode Island, there are also advantages: Because the border
| between Massachusetts and Rhode Island cuts right through
| church property, he can offer weddings in either state.
|
| > "We definitely straddle the line," O'Mara said.
|
| > He's never had to do that, but according to church
| folklore, it's happened before. A couple arrived on their
| wedding day with a marriage license issued in Rhode Island.
| But the church is part of the Roman Catholic Diocese of
| Worcester. The astute priest took them to the back of the
| church, the part of it that is in Rhode Island, where they
| did the civil part of the ceremony, before heading back to
| Massachusetts for the ceremony and nuptial Mass.
|
| > "Thus was the legality of the marriage ensured," the
| church's official history proclaims.
| djbusby wrote:
| Property taxes in NH&MA. But since the mailing address is NH
| no income tax.
| cobertos wrote:
| Are there two separate parcel IDs? One for each authority
| in the respective state? Do you pay property tax on the
| full acreage to each state or only on the partial acreage
| in each state?
| nine_k wrote:
| (An obligatory joke about Haskell letting you transcend various
| boundaries of what's considered possible.)
| [deleted]
| gaudat wrote:
| According to their web site, you can visit the place without a US
| visitor visa from the Canada side. As the only
| entrance to the library is in the US, all non-American visitors
| passing through US territory to enter the library must understand
| that their movements will be monitored by the US Border Patrol
| and the RCMP. Passports and visas are not necessary
| to enter the Haskell Free Library & Opera House. However, please
| be aware that both the US Border Patrol and the RCMP have the
| right to ask to see personal identification and detain anyone who
| is not of legal status. We do encourage you to bring your papers
| with you, just in case.
|
| Also see Canusa Avenue just a km/mile or two to the west. Just as
| the name described the Canada-US border runs through the middle
| of the road.
| nier wrote:
| From the linked article:
|
| <<The line of tape on the floor was added to mark the exact
| border line after a fire decades ago set off a fight between
| insurance companies over who had to pay for damages, the tour
| guide explained.>>
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-12-26 23:00 UTC)