[HN Gopher] Social media may prevent users from reaping creative...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Social media may prevent users from reaping creative rewards of
       profound boredom
        
       Author : nabla9
       Score  : 291 points
       Date   : 2022-12-26 15:10 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bath.ac.uk)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bath.ac.uk)
        
       | meindnoch wrote:
       | Do people still use social media that much?
        
         | mdorazio wrote:
         | You're asking this question on a social media site...
        
           | baeaz wrote:
           | I disagree that this is a social media, I don't even look at
           | the names of those who leave comments or those I reply to.
           | It's like I'm reading and talking to the hivemind.
        
             | WhiteBlueSkies wrote:
             | You don't get it. It's social media. You interact get
             | upvotes(dopamine hits). argue and feel entertained through
             | the screen of your device.
        
               | somesortofthing wrote:
               | These things are all possible in iMessage. Is iMessage
               | social media?
        
               | PebblesRox wrote:
               | For me what puts Hacker News in the same bucket as
               | Twitter, Reddit, or Facebook is that it's a constantly
               | refreshing feed of content that requires very little
               | choice or initiative on my end to access. It's always
               | here, always novel, and I don't have to think from a
               | blank slate to figure out what I want to read, I just
               | come and pick from the menu that's been put in front of
               | me.
               | 
               | I can contribute and participate actively by doing
               | critical thinking and leaving comments but I can also
               | read passively and barely even think my own thoughts. For
               | me that passive version is the default.
               | 
               | I agree that social media is not the most accurate term.
               | I wonder what a good alternative would be. "Mindless feed
               | reading" could refer to the act of consuming it.
        
               | WhiteBlueSkies wrote:
               | You are being pedantic. Yes, if you're in a group and
               | exchange discussions which are low-effort(memes) and
               | high-dopamine(outrageous views) you are in the cycle.
        
             | drstewart wrote:
             | I don't look at the names of commenters on Twitter or
             | Instagram, so those aren't social media either?
        
             | mr_mitm wrote:
             | HN still serves as a source of distraction for time periods
             | of arbitrary length. TikTok may also not be a social
             | network, but it's distracting and addicting. The content on
             | HN is just a bit more geared towards the intellectual (and
             | The Algorithm is less powerful).
        
           | chownie wrote:
           | I kind of object to that use of the term, when social media
           | was coined it clearly did not apply to pseudonymous forum
           | sites.
        
             | delecti wrote:
             | From what I can tell from a brief googling, the term
             | "social media" was coined (or at least an early documented
             | use was) by an AOL executive in 1997. I think that refutes
             | your assertion. AOL usernames tended to be pretty
             | pseudonymous.
        
         | k__ wrote:
         | While Facebook's numbers may be down, TikTol is doing good, I
         | heard.
        
         | einszwei wrote:
         | I find people around using short video apps more. But either
         | way it is mindless consumption.
        
       | powersnail wrote:
       | Perhaps this is due to my insufficient understanding of English,
       | but "an abundance of uninterrupted time spent in relative
       | solitude" doesn't sound like boredom to me, especially if the
       | time is spent on active thinking.
       | 
       | If you are deeply engaged in musing, despite the solitary
       | situation, you are not really bored, are you? At least I wouldn't
       | call it being bored. You've got something to do, and you're well
       | occupied by it. It's just thinking time to me. Such a situation
       | I'd never characterize as boring (unless it lasts a ridiculous
       | time, which reminds me of _Chess Story_).
       | 
       | What I think of as "boredom" is more like being in a sporadic
       | lecture, doing assignments that are lengthy and thoughtless,
       | being locked in a traffic jam, etc. Something that takes time,
       | repulses attention, but has sufficient consequence that compels
       | your concentration. And I don't think those are helpful in the
       | profoundness of anything.
       | 
       | So, if the premise is "social media may prevent users from
       | reaping creative rewards of time to profoundly think", I'd agree.
       | But "profound boredom"? I just couldn't get behind this
       | terminology.
        
         | pcurve wrote:
         | I agree about the terminology not being the best so the article
         | tries to differentiate it from normal boredom by calling it
         | "profound boredom"
        
           | powersnail wrote:
           | I find the differentiation to be rather circular in its
           | logic. The authors chose to call it "profound boredom",
           | grouped it with "normal boredom" (which is, in fact, just
           | "boredom"), called the union of them "boredom", and thus
           | boredom can be great for your creativity.
           | 
           | All this mental gymnastic to produce the attention grabbing
           | headline that something bad can be good for you, when that
           | something bad is actually something good, but rehashed into
           | the category of something bad. Of course, that thing which is
           | good for you has not changed; we always knew that if you
           | spend time thinking deeply, you might gain some insights or
           | ideas. It's just a shuffling of terminologies, which
           | conveniently helps market their findings.
           | 
           | By the same thought process, a human being can have 8 limbs,
           | because here are the "normal humans", and there we have Billy
           | the Octopus, who we re-categorize as a "Octopusian human".
           | So, it's safe to say that some human can have 8 limbs.
           | 
           | It's like the gerrymandering of definitions.
        
         | Towaway69 wrote:
         | It's a bit to do with any academic endeavour, give something
         | common and simple a _profound_ name and you can write a paper
         | describing it.
        
       | bakugo wrote:
       | > may
       | 
       | I thought this was a well known observable fact. There are
       | certain creative thought processes that only occur to me when I
       | really have absolutely nothing else to think about, but that
       | basically never happens anymore thanks to the internet. The only
       | reason I'm even aware that I'm missing out on this is because it
       | still happens when I take long showers, so basically the only
       | time I don't have a phone or computer with me.
        
       | hkon wrote:
       | I mean, through some hilarious coincidents a couple of years ago
       | I found myself without internet at home for close to a month.
       | 
       | I remember just sitting in my living room thinking, "man watching
       | TV is boring, I would rather do <whatever productive thing>".
       | 
       | The picture in the article could have been me. It had a magical
       | just-do-it effect because I really had no better alternatives
       | around.
        
       | rrgok wrote:
       | I could not even being to read the article. The title was enough.
       | Now we are trying to be productive even in boredom. Let us suck
       | the life out of everything. While we are at, just invent
       | something that let us work when we are asleep.
       | 
       | I know I'm being hard, but I can't help feeling nauseated by this
       | mindset of "reaping" something out of everything and everywhere.
        
         | djaychela wrote:
         | I think you may have missed the point of the article if that's
         | your take on it. Its not about deliberately mining boredom,
         | it's that being constantly "entertained" by social media means
         | you will not enter the mind state where creativity can reach
         | significant peaks.
        
       | Isamu wrote:
       | Actually being creative requires work, a lot of it, and the
       | people who are very creative think the work is fun or have
       | accepted it. Best to get into a regular groove of doing your
       | creative work on a predictable schedule.
       | 
       | The opposite of being bored is cultivating your interests,
       | treating them like a garden that takes work but grows over time
       | into a variety of wonderful things.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | Sounds like something to overcome boredom. Think how much free
         | time they'd have without all that creative work.
        
         | frereubu wrote:
         | I agree that many people think "being creative" is just
         | swanning around being inspired, but all the high-level creative
         | people I know are very hard-working. There's a great book
         | called _The Creative Habit_ by the choreographer Twyla Tharp
         | which is an absolutely fantastic insight into what it takes to
         | operate at a high level in the arts.
        
       | kevingadd wrote:
       | It's certainly a way to waste time, but social media is also
       | where I've found a lot of creative partners to work on side
       | projects with, and it's where I've found a lot of inspiration too
       | when looking at people's art, microfiction, etc. So I feel like
       | for me it's probably at least net neutral when I use it properly
       | instead of just doomscrolling.
        
       | kranke155 wrote:
       | I'm a writer and I always do my best work when I leave the phone
       | at home. In fact when I can, I leave it at home for several days
       | in a row.
        
         | LAC-Tech wrote:
         | Your computer cant access social media?
         | 
         | I don't mean to be glib, but I often see people discuss this as
         | though it's a smartphone only thing. It's just as possible to
         | doom scroll on the big screen.
         | 
         | Maybe I'm jealous that some people can restrict time wasting to
         | just the phone.
        
       | highspeedbus wrote:
       | There's a brazillian song called Tedio (Boredom) that was popular
       | in the 80's. It talks about not withstanding boredom inside home,
       | while life goes on out there. It's curious how the depicted
       | feeling is so unrelatable today.
       | 
       | I think boredom is a real force that pushes ourselves to the
       | edge, to hopefully make a change in life, like going out to see
       | real people.
       | 
       | Social media creates this cozy, safe place to keep your mind
       | occupied, letting life pass without realizing it.
        
         | 411111111111111 wrote:
         | But why do people blame social media for that? Every
         | entertainment is equally at fault, wherever it's fictions,
         | movies, tv series, comics/webtoons, games etc
        
           | peepee1982 wrote:
           | In that sense everything is at fault, not just all forms of
           | media.
           | 
           | But social media has no downtime and is engineered to be
           | addictive. A casino will lose it's appeal once you've run out
           | of liquidity. Social media has next to no prohibiting
           | qualities.
        
           | yucky wrote:
           | > Every entertainment is equally at fault
           | 
           | Clearly not. That would be like dismissing Siberian tigers as
           | just cats, and pretending they're no more dangerous than the
           | average housecat. The taxonomy is the same, but the
           | similarities end there.
        
           | yazboo wrote:
           | It's a difference of degree not kind. The constant
           | audiovisual stimulus running through the internet is much
           | more powerful than any of those things, and more widely
           | available. Cable TV was close. It was always on in the room,
           | but you had to be in the room, and you had to negotiate with
           | your cohabitants over what to have on, or else you could go
           | somewhere and be bored. There are no constraints anymore,
           | with exceptions for the most impoverished among us - there's
           | always something close at hand to tickle your particular
           | reptile brain until you fall asleep.
        
             | Buttons840 wrote:
             | Computers with social media are so extremely reactive.
             | Literally within half a second I can react to my boredom
             | and find new content. I've noticed myself beginning to read
             | a sentence, get bored half-way through, switch tabs, look
             | over the new recommendations, do it again 30 seconds later.
             | 
             | Never bored, and yet never really entertained or satisfied.
        
               | Buttons840 wrote:
               | One trick I've found to help with this is to live-stream.
               | I once streamed a game on Twitch, nobody really watched,
               | but it forced me to sit down and actually play the game
               | for a good 2 or 3 hours. It was draining, gloriously
               | draining and satisfying. You can stream programming and
               | other personal projects as well. It doesn't matter if you
               | get many viewers or not, just forcing yourself to
               | maintain a consistent course of action helps. If you do
               | get some real viewers though, all the better, you can
               | monetize your work and enjoy free advice and socializing
               | with viewers.
        
               | netsharc wrote:
               | The best is when you're on reddit, think "this is
               | boring", open a new tab and type in "reddit.com"...
               | 
               | On that topic, I've luckily managed to make reddit boring
               | that I open it, scroll for a minute or so, and close it
               | again: I unsubscribed from the "interesting" subreddits
               | like politics or tifu or askreddit.
        
             | agumonkey wrote:
             | yeah, internet has near no constraint and this is the key
             | problem
             | 
             | TV had time.. you may be able to store it but you'd need
             | tapes .. still space and efforts constraints
             | 
             | today your hard drive and infinite connection create an
             | infinite pit
             | 
             | I also believe our brains love, just like muscles love
             | exercise, prioritizing, you feel better when you made a
             | smart decision. the feeling of never having to choose, skip
             | through many videos, pausing them, in any order tickle the
             | gluttony in us but then you get stuck and rot
        
             | scotty79 wrote:
             | That's not what happens when people doom scroll. They are
             | not perfectly entertained. They are profoundly bored on
             | social media. But they still scroll for scraps of
             | entertainment because more promising alternatives are not
             | really accessible to them at that moment, because of
             | physical limitations or their state of mind or their energy
             | levels.
        
           | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
           | If you're suggesting they're equally at fault, you better
           | have some numbers to back it up. Otherwise it just looks like
           | you say they're equal because that's what you want to
           | believe.
        
           | p0pcult wrote:
           | Social media has feedback loops that can adjust themselves
           | orders of magnitude faster than legacy media, to keep you
           | addicted (er, "engaged") with near zero friction.
        
           | spikeagally wrote:
           | [dead]
        
           | hnuser123456 wrote:
           | Because it's too easy now. You need a creative endeavor to
           | seem like an easy way to replace boredom with novelty. For a
           | lot of folks especially younger ones, there is already
           | infinite novelty just waiting to be scrolled all the time in
           | their pocket. No need to do anything except wave your thumb
           | around.
        
           | HellDunkel wrote:
           | I think social media does negatively affect your inspiration.
           | Boredom on the other hand is absolutely vital to seek out any
           | inspiration.
        
           | luckydata wrote:
           | lower friction makes it even easier to consume. We didn't use
           | to turn on a tv every time you took a dump but we are on our
           | phones scrolling through brain garbage every idle second we
           | have in our day. that's not good, our brain is not equipped
           | to either deal with all this stimulus or resist it.
        
           | analog31 wrote:
           | I don't think novelists have yet figured out how to
           | completely occupy your cognitive apparatus or put you under
           | pressure to stay engaged. When I'm sitting in my comfy chair
           | reading a novel, I can close my eyes without worrying that I
           | might miss something while I'm asleep.
        
             | 12345hn6789 wrote:
             | How is this different than closing your phone, screen
             | shotting a FB post, pausing your video? Really. Even live
             | streams, for the most part, are able to be paused and
             | watched at a later date albiet without chat interaction. I
             | fail to see the difference.
        
               | mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote:
               | If you fall asleep during a video, now you'll have no
               | idea where you were. Similarly if I lose concentration
               | watching a video, I now have to either go back or hope I
               | didn't miss anything important. If I lose concentration
               | while reading, the page is still there, I just have to
               | skim it until I find where i went on a tangent.
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | otikik wrote:
           | Traditional media is a static website. Social media is
           | infinite scroll.
        
           | rr808 wrote:
           | Yup that too, but TV was strictly scheduled until the 80s(?)
           | people who read books were unsocial nerds who didn't go out.
        
           | megamix wrote:
           | Social media is an active mechanism to keep you hooked.
        
         | myth2018 wrote:
         | I'm so grateful for having abandoned social networks. My main
         | motivator were the fights over political weaponization of
         | COVID-19, but then I went on and abandoned youtube and news as
         | well. Now, I'm halfway with my first book, found a new hobby
         | and developed my previous ones, rediscovered programming for
         | fun, am learning a new foreign language, found a new job with
         | very good compensation, lost 10 kg and became a better husband.
         | My life is so fundamentally better.
        
           | donky_oaty wrote:
           | Is browsing and commenting on Hacker News not considered
           | social media use though?
        
             | filoleg wrote:
             | It might be social media, but it isn't a social network.
             | 
             | HN has no friending or a way to link yourself to any other
             | user, no actual customizable profiles (a tiny "about me"
             | textbox aside), no images anywhere, no way to DM users, and
             | most people don't use their real names either.
             | 
             | There are only two "social" parts of HN. First is that the
             | links to the articles are posted (and voted on) by users.
             | And the second part is just the fancy comment section
             | around those posts. Most big news websites have a comment
             | section on their articles too, and those might even be more
             | full-featured than HN (e.g., I am pretty sure quite a few
             | of those allow setting a profile picture).
             | 
             | To put it simply, I believe social network and social media
             | are two different things. You can have them both together
             | (e.g., twitter), or separately. I would consider the
             | initial Snapchat app to be a social network, but they added
             | a dash of social media later on (with the "around me"
             | feature, stories, etc). And HN would fall under the
             | opposite of the original Snapchat app - social media, but
             | without much social netowork.
             | 
             | Sidenote: I am not an expert on this and didn't spend time
             | researching it. What I wrote above is a purely subjective
             | take on how I personally understand those terms, and how
             | they apply to the topic at hand.
        
         | fblp wrote:
         | I'd like to hear this song. But i searched for Tedio and
         | couldn't find it. Can you find it?
        
       | quaintdev wrote:
       | The whole problem with social media is the feed. Remove that feed
       | and replace it with something that is not the mechanism to keep
       | users captive and most of the issues with social media are
       | solved.
       | 
       | One of the ways to achieve that is to make people at the center
       | of app. The user chooses avatar from multiple avatars on main
       | screen and view their updates. Once they have viewed someone's
       | update they can go back do it for other, it becomes boring very
       | fast and discourages app usage. No social media company is going
       | to do this but something of this sort needs to happen.
        
         | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
         | Correct. Infinite scroll and adaptive algorithms are the curse
         | of social media.
        
         | suketk wrote:
         | Exactly! It's the digital equivalent of placing the milk at the
         | back of the grocery store. It's meant to distract you from why
         | you're there in the first place.
         | 
         | If anyone is interested, I wrote about why feeds are bad and
         | how you can reduce your dependence on them.
         | https://suketk.com/feeds-considered-harmful
        
         | Existenceblinks wrote:
         | I think it would have similar effect of reddit or youtube. 99%
         | of the time I use reddit or youtube, it's started with search
         | to jump straight to a topic.
         | 
         | And that is better because the demand side is an active, the
         | knowledge side is the sort of passive. So mediocre knowledge
         | wouldn't have the money backed ads power to outperform the
         | better knowledge or solution.
        
       | simonmesmith wrote:
       | This looked interesting and then I read the following in the
       | press release: "Dr Hill said the research sampled 15 participants
       | of varying age, occupational and education backgrounds in England
       | and the Republic of Ireland, who had been put on furlough or
       | asked to work from home."
       | 
       | So the hypothesis is based on 15 people, in one region of the
       | world, in a very specific circumstance. The authors admit the
       | research is limited, but if you don't read deeply into the press
       | release you might come away thinking this finding--if you can
       | call it that--is much more solid than the actual survey
       | methodology would support.
        
         | Jorengarenar wrote:
         | Indeed, those findings are good prompt for the researchers to
         | continue their research, but not something you publish as the
         | results!
        
           | Sakos wrote:
           | Why not? Just because it's published doesn't mean it implies
           | that it's found an absolute truth that can't ever be changed
           | or further analyzed.
        
             | johnfn wrote:
             | You don't publish because basically anything can be proven
             | at n=15. I could probably go perform another study right
             | now at n=15 and if I chose my variables right I could
             | determine that social media has no effect whatsoever. And
             | as much as you or I know not to read too much into this one
             | study, there are plenty more people who won't read too
             | closely or carefully.
        
               | Sakos wrote:
               | I'll put it bluntly. I don't care about people who read a
               | single study and take it as gospel. Science would be
               | nothing without all the studies that are published about
               | every single topic. Even the most important findings are
               | built on studies done before them.
               | 
               | > basically anything can be proven at n=15
               | 
               | Nothing was proven. The paper is literally a
               | philosophical discussion about Heidegger leaning on a
               | survey. If you think that proves anything, I have a
               | bridge to sell you. It's a data point, nothing more and
               | nothing less. It's an interesting perspective worth
               | thinking about and investigating further.
        
               | johnfn wrote:
               | You may not care, but science as a whole has a
               | responsibility to do more help than harm. Anyways I feel
               | like we're kind of arguing past each other. I agree
               | studies should be done; I just don't think people should
               | be getting news articles written up at n=15; that seems
               | deceptive.
        
               | Sakos wrote:
               | I'm ambivalent about the news article. It can be
               | misleading, but I also wouldn't have found the paper and
               | read through the whole thing without it, which I felt was
               | a really interesting and valuable read.
        
         | Sakos wrote:
         | Why leave out the context?
         | 
         | > Dr Hill said the research sampled 15 participants of varying
         | age, occupational and education backgrounds in England and the
         | Republic of Ireland, who had been put on furlough or asked to
         | work from home. He said the survey was relatively limited and
         | that it also would be valuable to examine, for example, the
         | role that material conditions and social class played in
         | people's experience of boredom.
         | 
         | > "We think these initial findings will resonate with so many
         | people's experiences of the pandemic and their use of social
         | media to alleviate boredom, and we would like to see this
         | research taken further," he said.
        
       | faeriechangling wrote:
       | Or maybe posting all our creative output on large searchable
       | databases actually amplifies creativity due to tools like AI
       | whereas aimless boredom tends to result in local efforts such as
       | scribbling?
        
       | AlbertCory wrote:
       | Funny to read this today. Last night I got sick of TV, sick of
       | all the interwebs' distractions, and just sat there with eyes
       | closed, letting my mind wander.
       | 
       | Finally I remembered I wanted to read _Fathers and Sons_
       | (Turgenev). Here 's a great question: why am I here and not
       | reading that? BRB.
        
       | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
       | I am reading Antifragile by Nassim Taleb, and one of his points
       | is that much of invention happens either out of necessity or
       | outside of structure vs traditional R&D / Academia.
       | 
       | I was wondering how much social media filling in all spare time
       | keeps people from tinkering and inventing and making progress.
       | 
       | Though, I suspect the tinkers are still spending a lot of time
       | tinkering - and only the people who have nothing better to do are
       | spending most of their time on social media.
        
         | adg001 wrote:
         | There is a line of research according to which social media
         | create addiction [0]. When we are addicted to social media, we
         | have less and less time for tinkering and pushing the envelope,
         | because a sizeable part of our time is claimed by such media.
         | 
         | [0] Griffiths, M. D. (2012). Facebook addiction: Concerns,
         | criticism, and recommendations: A response to Andreassen and
         | colleagues. Psychological Reports, 110, 518-520.
         | https://doi.org/10.2466/01.07.18.PR0.110.2.518-520
        
       | RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
       | > Dr Hill said the research sampled 15 participants of varying
       | age, occupational and education backgrounds in England and the
       | Republic of Ireland,
       | 
       | These seems like very few people to be drawing such broad-ranging
       | conclusions from.
        
         | Tagbert wrote:
         | if the effect is strong you can see evidence in even small
         | sample sizes.
        
       | Towaway69 wrote:
       | What exactly is the difference between idling, daydreaming,
       | meditating, musing or sitting on sofa with eyes shut and profound
       | boredom?
       | 
       | Aren't all these activities doing the same thing, giving the
       | brain pause to calm down, to refocus. Perhaps our brains require
       | idle times as our bodies need pause after exercise.
        
       | nowherebeen wrote:
       | I stopped using Reddit when I realized I was substituting my
       | boredom with junk content. Even blocked it on my /etc/host for
       | awhile.
        
       | swayvil wrote:
       | A powerful, constant, extremely low-effort distraction.
       | 
       | It's blinding to all of your senses and thoughts because as long
       | as your attention is consumed by this fascinating object
       | everything else is invisible.
       | 
       | Walls of blindness surround you. A kind of invisible prison.
        
       | tcmb wrote:
       | I did not read the study, but the finding seems trivial and
       | limited at the same time:
       | 
       | Anything you do to alleviate or prevent boredom that is not
       | creative can be said to 'prevent reaping creative rewards' of
       | boredom. Not just social media (or any media consumption, really)
       | but also sports or calling a friend or helping in a soup kitchen.
       | If you didn't do it, you'd feel boredom, and might pick up
       | something creative instead.
        
         | nullish_signal wrote:
         | Sports use more muscles and cardio than social media scrolling.
         | Phonecalls at least rely on speech instead of an algorithm
         | deciding what to show you. Helping in a Soup Kitchen is
         | obviously more productive than doom-scrolling.
         | 
         | All of those examples are better uses of time than passively
         | consuming "Social Media"
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | "Phonecalls at least rely on speech instead of an algorithm
           | deciding what to show you"
           | 
           | People participate in social media. Think of all the creative
           | content that exists. In your example you compared a two way
           | phone call with only one part of social media.
           | 
           | "Helping in a Soup Kitchen is obviously more productive than
           | doom-scrolling."
           | 
           | Though subjective, I agree with you. However without social
           | media how many 14 year olds were helping at soup kitchens
           | instead of watching TV, playing video games, or outside
           | playing. You implied that social media was impacting selfless
           | benevolent acts.
           | 
           | This could even get complicated where I show that young
           | people use social media in a positive way to call out social
           | issues or make people aware of volunteer events.
           | 
           | "All of those examples are better uses of time than passively
           | consuming "Social Media"
           | 
           | Again, social media doesn't have to be passive, your comment
           | that I'm replying to and this reply show that.
           | 
           | I believe you are letting your cynicism impact your view of
           | social media
        
         | Barrin92 wrote:
         | however there's some pretty stark differences. Sport is
         | inherently physically healthy, and working in a soup kitchen or
         | doing some other charitable work has positive social effects.
         | Much social media usage, despite the name, isn't very social at
         | all.
         | 
         | After a game of soccer with your friends you probably feel
         | better both physically and mentally than after scrolling
         | through twitter. The latter is more like reality tv combined
         | with the worst news channel available.
        
         | armatav wrote:
         | "I did not read the study"
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | I think he meant he read the conclusion or just the data.
           | 
           | Still, when I see this line it's like a protection from from
           | being wrong.
           | 
           | "I'm not an expert but...." basically prevents judgement
           | since they qualified their statement
        
           | jimmySixDOF wrote:
           | Leaning into the metaness of having this conversation on
           | social media in social media and on the subject of it's
           | shallowness, then detaching the headline takeaways from the
           | study's detail as done here by GP is a useful case in point.
           | Can a reasonable argument be made even against straw men ? Do
           | the details matter when the sound byte talking head line is
           | the lone subject of interest ?
        
         | rektide wrote:
         | Social media is distinct in that it's not one thing, one
         | experience.
         | 
         | It's many different experiences, that users are cut between,
         | exposed to. Where-as calling a friend every hour doesnt make
         | sense & would get repetitive, one can just drop into the feed
         | of experiences whenever they want.
         | 
         | Your point remains, certainly. But I do think there's a kind of
         | unbridled access to novelty & other-peoples-creativeness that
         | is indeed remarkably blunting when compared to most personal
         | lives & options we'd have.
        
         | mrbombastic wrote:
         | This is no doubt true but smart phones basically give you the
         | option to never be bored, and get instant gratification
         | whenever you feel like it. I don't think it is limited to
         | social media but I imagine there are pretty profound
         | consequences to that.
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | TV and video games are also an option but as you implied you
           | may not always have access to them.
           | 
           | However in what situation prior to the internet would a
           | person be forced to be bored. Waiting at the DMV? I guess
           | what I'm saying is it's pretty rare that someone wouldn't
           | have an escape from bordem, even before phones.
        
             | falcolas wrote:
             | Today, if you have access to a smartphone, you have access
             | to both games and tv too.
        
             | mrbombastic wrote:
             | road trips, standing in line anywhere (toll booth,
             | amusement park, gas station, grocery store etc), riding the
             | subway, waiting room at a doctor's office, riding in a cab,
             | waiting between customers at your retail job, power
             | outages, camping trips, I am sure I could think of many
             | more.
        
               | johnny22 wrote:
               | i always brought a book for that :)
        
             | eastbound wrote:
             | > However in what situation prior to the internet would a
             | person be forced to be bored.
             | 
             | What? People used to wait all the time. Meeting friends?
             | "See you at 8 at the mall, east corner" and your friend
             | would arrive at 8:13 while you were there since 7:46pm,
             | unable to walk away for fear of missing the evening
             | completely. So people smoked! A LOT!
             | 
             | And sometimes you would miss the appointment, have no way
             | to reach the person, and spend the whole evening by
             | yourself in the city, having also missed the movie time.
        
             | Tagbert wrote:
             | Even sitting at home you could get bored. Yes, you would
             | have TV but "nothing is on" and you might have books but
             | nothing "seems right". None of those activities were as
             | carefully tailored to bring you in and actively work to
             | keep you engaged as social media does today.
        
           | Jensson wrote:
           | It is a self regulating problem, bored people create
           | entertainment until there are no other bored people left.
           | Modern tech makes that process more efficient so you have
           | less bored people, I don't see why that is a problem.
        
             | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
             | It's a problem if the things that people used to do while
             | bored were useful and now that social media is handling the
             | boredom problem those things are not happening anymore.
        
               | themitigating wrote:
               | Why is that a problem? What about video games or TV?
               | 
               | What useful things are you talking about and is their
               | evidence of their decline?
        
               | __MatrixMan__ wrote:
               | Well here I am on HN, so I'm in a bit of a relapse, but
               | personally I've noticed that not being on social media
               | correlates with:
               | 
               | - talking with strangers at the grocery store
               | 
               | - working on my novel
               | 
               | - building things in my garage
               | 
               | - antagonizing institutions that I think have crossed a
               | line
               | 
               | And those things are meaningful to me in ways that being
               | on social media is not.
               | 
               | As for whether such activities trickle up into some kind
               | of high level aggregate good, I don't know, but it's not
               | hard to guess at how they might.
        
               | tayo42 wrote:
               | TV being a problem was talked to death for years. Now the
               | attention is on streaming binges on Netflix. Not everyone
               | likes or plays video games it doesn't have the same mass
               | appeal
        
             | frereubu wrote:
             | If efficiency is your _only_ goal then no, there is no
             | problem. But I would argue that 's an extremely shallow way
             | of looking at entertainment.
        
       | Towaway69 wrote:
       | It is ironic that I came to HN in my boredom and read this
       | thread.
       | 
       | Discovered that there are two kinds of boredom!
       | 
       | Thank you boredom and HN for making my boredom strangely
       | productive.
        
       | dahart wrote:
       | > "Profound boredom may sound like an overwhelmingly negative
       | concept but, in fact, it can be intensely positive if people are
       | given the chance for undistracted thinking and development."
       | 
       | Is there historical evidence, from before social media or
       | computers existed, that boredom made people productive or
       | creative? I am worried about my kids never ever being bored, and
       | the points in the article are tempting to believe, but when I
       | think about history, I'm sure people were more lots more bored
       | but not sure they were creatively doing any better than what we
       | see today.
        
         | ckardat123 wrote:
         | I think it's hard to judge, because we have so many more tools
         | and resources today which amplify creative output.
         | 
         | It might true that we are have more creative output today than
         | we did 100 years ago, while also being true that social media
         | stifles us from reaching our full creative potential.
        
         | djaychela wrote:
         | My four step kids have no idea what boredom is. I, however, do,
         | and found most of my creative endeavours and hobbies arose when
         | I was bored. I'm pretty sure if boredom wasn't the alternative,
         | I wouldn't have learned the guitar, or spent many hours
         | daydreaming science fiction fantasies.
        
         | kstenerud wrote:
         | Boredom is what led to pretty much every project I've ever
         | done. I usually have a list in my head of things that could be
         | made better, but they never come to anything until I have a
         | lengthy period of nothing to do.
         | 
         | Latest example: I had to take all my vacation time this year or
         | else I'd lose it. I got so bored that I built this over the
         | past weeks: https://github.com/kstenerud/kbnf
        
         | signaru wrote:
         | I'm not sure whether it counts as boredom, but Python was said
         | to have been created by GVR to keep himself occupied during a
         | Christmas holiday.
        
         | peepee1982 wrote:
         | In my personal history my creativity has dropped by a
         | frightening amount since the rise of YouTube and smartphones.
         | 
         | I now have to actively lock myself out of certain services and
         | do daily meditation sessions to somewhat counteract those
         | distractions.
         | 
         | They're just too easy to indulge in.
         | 
         | I've mostly stopped doing music and writing prose because of
         | it, and I'm slowly getting back into the groove.
        
       | dreen wrote:
       | Quit Twitter about 6 years ago because of related issues. Checked
       | out Mastodon, but apart from the distributed aspect it just seems
       | like more of the same, as in an evolution upon the experience of
       | watching TV, in the internet era. I've been quite happy without
       | it since.
        
         | hecanjog wrote:
         | We followed a similar path and my experience was mostly the
         | same. I wanted the fediverse to be a positive social thing in
         | my life, I gave it a few years but in practice it felt sadly
         | similar. Reading Amusing Ourselves to Death over the holiday
         | helped me understand my relationship to infotainment a little
         | better. (And I'm conflicted about this site too honestly...)
        
           | verzeichnis wrote:
           | This book should be required reading in school. I read it
           | when I was around 18 and it vaccinated me profoundly for all
           | things entertainment industry, be it video games, TV or
           | social media. I partake, but there always comes a point where
           | I get that Clockwork Orange gag reaction at some point and am
           | driven away.
           | 
           | And yes, this site is of quality content, but it is still the
           | same opiate.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Yet here you are on HN ;)
        
           | themitigating wrote:
           | Sarcastic remark but I agree with you.
           | 
           | Everytime there's some article about Netflix, Facebook, or
           | the like there's a bunch of people telling everyone they quit
           | and how their life is better, etc.
           | 
           | Many times the article isn't even about quitting social
           | media, just some controversy. I wonder if some percentage of
           | those people are right-wing and wait for a chance to jump in
           | so they can harm companies they disagree with.
        
           | dreen wrote:
           | Very true, but HN has a hard limit on how much time I will
           | spend here. A few stories on the main page plus sometimes
           | comments, and that's it for the day. Social media is designed
           | to eliminate that limit, I used to be able to spend an entire
           | day scrolling Twitter.
        
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