[HN Gopher] Find the Fast Moving Water
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       Find the Fast Moving Water
        
       Author : simonebrunozzi
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2022-12-26 09:29 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.nfx.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.nfx.com)
        
       | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
       | Sorry, but I just don't give a fuck. Some of us like to sit on
       | the edge of still lakes and ponds, maybe go for a swim, enjoy the
       | sunshine, listen the birds and the rustle of the wind. We don't
       | want moving water, let alone fast moving water.
       | 
       | Put more explicitly: feel free to spend your life trying to get
       | rich if that's what floats your boat. Feel free, even, to spend
       | it searching for the excitement of rapidly growing companies in
       | "fast moving water". But be aware that most of us aren't
       | interested, aren't trying to live like that, and have a somewhat
       | negative view of people who do.
       | 
       | (See also: Siddhartha by Herman Hesse, in particular the ferry
       | man)
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | bze12 wrote:
       | feels like a variation on Andreessen's perspective that the
       | market matters most in startups
       | 
       | https://pmarchive.com/guide_to_startups_part4.html
        
       | solardev wrote:
       | I know this isn't really the point of the article, but IMHO it's
       | more interesting... can you really measure water speed just by
       | looking at surface turbulence? What do you do about fast moving
       | but deep streams, or underwater current channels, etc.?
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Sort of. To a degree. In a real world environment things are
         | never perfectly uniform but it certainly can be easier to gauge
         | flow if there are things disturbing that flow or visible
         | objects in the flow. Lacking references something like a tidal
         | current can certainly be faster than is obvious. (And people
         | obviously can get caught in rip currents that may not be
         | apparent.)
        
         | kutx989 wrote:
         | I was wondering the same thing. I know surfers look for rip
         | tides using the surface. I was hoping the article would be
         | about computer vision tools for that
        
         | mhh__ wrote:
         | Under some conditions yes but presumably if you have a smooth
         | flow at speed s and another at s*1.1 then you'd struggle.
        
         | peterhalburt33 wrote:
         | I was just about to say, I was slightly disappointed to find
         | that this wasn't an article about a novel technique to identify
         | fast moving water (akin to the fact that we can identify the
         | temperature water by the sound it makes when it is poured).
        
           | solardev wrote:
           | It's one of those interesting examples where Hackernews's
           | dual identities conflict... it's half "interesting
           | engineering stuff" and half "startup culture stuff".
           | 
           | In this case, the article's business stuff made my eyes glaze
           | over, lol, but that random thumbnail and metaphor they used
           | was really interesting. I wish I could find the source of
           | that image... unclear if it's just a mockup that NFX made for
           | the blog, or if there's an actual machine vision water flow
           | classification project somewhere.
           | 
           | My Googling is _really_ failing me this time. I can find
           | articles (scholarly or not) on kayaking, water physics,
           | machine vision... but not at the intersection of the above,
           | and not any other instances of that image or lookalikes. Most
           | of the AI projects out there are classifying aerial images
           | from a bird 's eye view, at ocean scale, not "how fast is
           | this water that I'm looking at from shore" scale.
        
       | mhh__ wrote:
       | "I'm here for one reason and one reason alone. I'm here to guess
       | what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. That's
       | it. Nothing more. And standing here tonight, I'm afraid that I
       | don't hear - a - thing. Just... silence"
       | 
       | Margin Call
        
         | 082349872349872 wrote:
         | probably apocryphal, but I've heard "what's it doing that for?"
         | is _the_ most common phrase found on aircraft black boxes. I
         | always imagine that someone at LTCM, maybe not Meriwether or
         | Merton or Scholes, but _someone_ , probably uttered that phrase
         | at some point as well.
        
       | vlovich123 wrote:
       | This philosophy works well in truly competitive markets. However,
       | fast-moving water can be artificially generated by throwing a ton
       | of VC / IPO money at a market.
       | 
       | > Three months later, we pivoted into video games on FB, grew
       | quickly to $10M's of revenue that we didn't have before, and Saar
       | was proven right
       | 
       | How big are FB video games today? Zynga was purchased for $12.7B
       | when Take-Two's market cap was ~$20B without really impacting
       | Take-Two's market cap meaning that Take-Two purchased a company
       | for $12.7B that the market valued at ~$0 (generously if we assume
       | the following peak of $28B was the acquisition, then the market
       | valued it at ~4B).
       | 
       | My point is that "find the fast moving water" is a greedy search
       | algorithm that is heavily distorted by private capital flows /
       | band-wagon effect. That's why once a market sees 1 serious VC
       | entering it meaningfully you see a massive cash flow as all VCs
       | follow. That doesn't mean that it's actually creating value vs
       | entrepreneurs rushing in to build companies to extract as much
       | value as possible from the "dumb money" flowing in. This also
       | sucks away oxygen from things that might be more durable ideas
       | that are harder businesses to build.
       | 
       | It's useful advice for finding personal wealth in VC markets. I
       | do wish there was some kind of economic model that manages to
       | meaningfully inhibit pure market capital churn while encouraging
       | construction of durable businesses. Probably not possible in the
       | VC space I suspect.
       | 
       | Probably in this analogy, as other mentioned, we should be
       | looking for fast moving deeper water / water that's likely to
       | maintain a forward direction for a long time vs surface water
       | churn.
        
         | vkou wrote:
         | > How big are FB video games today? Zynga was purchased for
         | $12.7B when Take-Two's market cap was ~$20B without really
         | impacting Take-Two's market cap meaning that Take-Two purchased
         | a company for $12.7B that the market valued at ~$0 (generously
         | if we assume the following peak of $28B was the acquisition,
         | then the market valued it at ~4B).
         | 
         | I'm not sure that's correct.
         | 
         | If a company worth $10B pays $1B in cash to purchase a gold bar
         | that's worth $1B, it's market cap should not change. That
         | doesn't mean that the gold bar is worthless!
         | 
         | Likewise, if a company worth $10B pays $1B in cash to purchase
         | a company that's worth $1B... It's market cap should not
         | change, either!
         | 
         | The only situation in which the market cap should change is if
         | the purchase unlocks some kind of new synergy between the two
         | companies, that wasn't present when they were separate entities
         | (Or if the shareholders think that the management of the buying
         | company has gone insane.) But that still has zero bearing on
         | the 'market value' of the acquired company.
        
       | AndrewOMartin wrote:
       | I thought this was going to be about a new style of CAPTCHA.
        
       | mdorazio wrote:
       | The most interesting part of this article to me is that the
       | author inadvertently makes the case that being in the "fast
       | moving water" isn't sufficient, and personally I don't think it's
       | necessary, either. From the article, the author talks about
       | thinking Cabulous was the fast moving water. It doesn't exist
       | now. He was also impressed with Palo Alto delivery, but comments
       | that of the seven delivery startups that year, only Door Dash
       | survived. The pitch here seems to be "follow the herd and hope
       | you survive".
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-26 23:01 UTC)