[HN Gopher] DuckDuckGo now blocks Google sign-in pop-ups on all ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       DuckDuckGo now blocks Google sign-in pop-ups on all sites
        
       Author : elorant
       Score  : 164 points
       Date   : 2022-12-25 14:50 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.bleepingcomputer.com)
        
       | gareth_untether wrote:
       | Thank goodness, it is a terribly annoying pop up that reminded me
       | of surfing the net a decade ago. What is Google thinking? Thanks
       | to DuckDuckGo for a great upgrade.
        
       | charcircuit wrote:
       | This just makes average user's lives harder in signing up for
       | sites.
        
         | andybee wrote:
         | Yeah, but giving all website interaction data to a company for
         | "convenience" is exactly not how to make that easier. The
         | logins and account information belong on the client side along
         | with the person; and should be implemented fully on a client
         | (with a separate encrypted backup strategy). The way this whole
         | thing was implemented is so it can be abused.
        
         | WASDx wrote:
         | I assume it's just the pop-up that requests you to sign up that
         | is blocked, not when you explicitly want to sign up.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | It's useful to inform users that they can easily sign up
           | without having to go through a confusing account creation
           | process and having to worry about the site's security
        
             | t-writescode wrote:
             | And yet Reddit asks me to sign in with Google, *even when
             | I'm currently signed in with my Reddit account*.
             | 
             | Yeah, no. It's almost always an anti-pattern that's
             | designed to get someone's real identity through their gmail
             | account
        
               | charcircuit wrote:
               | That sounds like a bug in reddit. Did you report it?
        
       | propogandist wrote:
       | >BleepingComputer has found that the option is baked into the
       | general protection feature of the browser extension, so when the
       | extension is active, all Google prompts are blocked
       | automatically.
       | 
       | pop-up modal blocking becomes a standout "protection feature"
       | when duckduckgo buys a big native ad to make this seem newsworthy
        
       | solarkraft wrote:
       | Nice, but I think this should be uBlock Origin's job.
        
       | lapcat wrote:
       | div#credential_picker_container >
       | iframe[src^="https://accounts.google.com/"],         iframe#crede
       | ntial_picker_iframe[src^="https://accounts.google.com/"]
       | { display: none !important; }
       | 
       | That's all you need. Covers both desktop and mobile.
        
         | DavideNL wrote:
         | I wonder if there's (uBlock Origin) filter lists with only
         | _separate_ / specific things like this, which keeps up to date
         | with latest updates/changes.
         | 
         | There's `AdGuard Annoyances` and `Fanboy's Annoyance` lists
         | (which i assume also have this blocking rule), but these big
         | lists frequently break things unfortunately, so i avoid them.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | Thank you for this snippet. I hate those windows and they seem
         | to always appear on the scammiest of sites.
        
       | Raed667 wrote:
       | DDG are really good at generating headlines for the smallest
       | stuff they release.
        
         | aliqot wrote:
         | Haven't seen a headline about them making search better. Seems
         | like every search engine this year got markedly worse. Even the
         | alternatives are pretty poor.
         | 
         | I want to say I'd rather pick an independent alternative, but
         | even that space is bleak. A founder here most famously made a
         | fool out of himself and represented his search startup so
         | poorly and asserting that not only would people pay for his
         | search app, but that it was in the interest of privacy, while
         | also requiring a browser extension.
        
           | prh8 wrote:
           | Have you tried Kagi? I think you might find it appealing.
           | Especially if you are a developer or someone who is regularly
           | searching technical/code related things. It's really good for
           | that, and allows you to weight/block sites as you please to
           | further improve results.
        
           | foreverCarlos wrote:
           | Try Kagi - it's a breath of fresh air.
        
           | dazc wrote:
           | 'Seems like every search engine this year got markedly worse'
           | 
           | Maybe the sum total of available content got worse instead?
           | Will 2023 be better, I suspect not.
        
             | willhinsa wrote:
             | If a search engine cannot recognize what content is good
             | and which is bad, it's not a good search engine.
             | 
             | If there was a sea of garbage with some beautiful healthy
             | fish still in it, it doesn't mean I'm going to start
             | catching garbage and passing it off as halibut.
             | 
             | But the model of constant growth required and advertising
             | to cross purposes of your users means that they're selling
             | garbage by the pound and calling it fish!
             | 
             | I have no interest in agreeing that the emperor's new
             | clothes exist.
        
               | janalsncm wrote:
               | There are two possibilities:
               | 
               | 1. Search engines are getting less good at ranking bad
               | content below good content
               | 
               | 2. The good content is getting worse. So bad, in fact,
               | that it looks like bad content.
               | 
               | It may be a little of both. I lean towards 2, though.
               | It's kind of a race to the bottom in terms of jamming
               | your page with ads, buzz words, and popups these days.
               | 
               | Generally speaking, the web doesn't have great results
               | for e.g. product recommendations. Part of it is because
               | of how centralized the internet has become.
               | 
               | The best you can do a lot of the time is to just serve
               | mostly Reddit results. But even that can be gamed.
        
               | willhinsa wrote:
               | the PROPORTION of content is getting worse
               | 
               | but GREAT content on an absolute numbers level is rising
               | every single year
               | 
               | excepting the death of good content through attrition and
               | entropy good content only goes up unless we're all dead
               | 
               | it's just discovering good new content is difficult,
               | especially when you're a sclerotic barnacle tied to
               | legacy interests of all stripes!
        
               | janalsncm wrote:
               | > the PROPORTION of content is getting worse but GREAT
               | content on an absolute numbers level is rising every
               | single year
               | 
               | I'd love to believe this is true, but it can't be true
               | for every query. How much great content is out there for
               | _best gaming laptop_ or _marinara sauce recipe_?
               | 
               | Tech gadget review sites are filled to the brim with ads
               | and paid links these days, without exception.
               | 
               | Recipe websites are also filled with ads, facilitated by
               | long descriptions of unnecessary family history to create
               | more vertical space.
               | 
               | > discovering new content is difficult
               | 
               | Indeed, great new content is almost impossible. There are
               | blog search engines which do a decent job. Trouble is,
               | those won't cover all my queries.
               | 
               | > sclerotic barnacle
               | 
               | Solid vocab choice. Respect.
        
           | Raed667 wrote:
           | I also _feel_ like the quality of search engines have gone
           | down, but can we quantify that?
           | 
           | If yes, then how so? Would that be based on bounce-rate,
           | position of the clicked search result, suggestion accuracy...
           | ?
        
             | Beaver117 wrote:
             | It'll be quantified in their financials slowing or even
             | shrinking
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | Thank god. That was irritating. Now also do the cookie popups.
        
         | yegg wrote:
         | Thanks. On cookie popups:
         | 
         | * Our Mac browser already does this, announcement for that was
         | here: https://spreadprivacy.com/duckduckgo-for-mac-open-beta/
         | 
         | * It's open source at:
         | https://github.com/duckduckgo/autoconsent
         | 
         | * For our Android app it is in beta, and you can enabled it in
         | settings.
         | 
         | * For our iOS app, it is coming soon, and then we'll work on
         | extensions.
         | 
         | * We're updating this page quarterly for all our Web Tracking
         | Protections across platforms:
         | https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/we...
        
           | andybee wrote:
           | Cool, considering switching as well. At first glance so much
           | Apple stuff, thinking that somehow iOS and Apple devices are
           | more privacy friendly is kind of a false analogy. Apple has
           | lied about privacy protections and if you look into it you
           | will find that Apple collects data for itself while blocking
           | others from doing it (from their "ad campaign"). For example,
           | if you opt out of health data, Apple still collects this
           | information in the background but just doesn't show it to
           | you. AppStore has been shown to collect extensive data as
           | well. Don't put all your eggs into the Apple basket.
        
         | WASDx wrote:
         | I'm not sure if it's common knowledge around here but there is
         | https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/
        
           | DavideNL wrote:
           | Better yet, there is https://github.com/OhMyGuus/I-Still-
           | Dont-Care-About-Cookies
        
           | nubinetwork wrote:
           | I was just about to post this, but you beat me to it. Now if
           | only google would let you use addons on mobile chrome...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | supriyo-biswas wrote:
       | Unfortunately, I have to take the contrarian view and agree with
       | some of the grayed out (presumably downvoted?) comments here that
       | DDG's search featureset has stagnated and they're solely relying
       | on the narrative of "Big Tech Bad!" to carry their brand and
       | product forward.
       | 
       | "Big Tech Bad!" isn't in of itself an issue and can be a viable
       | marketing message for ad blockers, VPNs, and products in that
       | space. However, I'm afraid the real innovation in search is
       | happening elsewhere; either in the form of traditional search
       | engines (Kagi, you.com) or large language models (ChatGPT, LaMDA
       | etc.)
        
         | netr0ute wrote:
         | > they're solely relying on the narrative of "Big Tech Bad!" to
         | carry their brand and product forward.
         | 
         | I don't know, that is kind of the whole purpose of DDG to begin
         | with.
        
           | supriyo-biswas wrote:
           | Every company can market themselves the way they want. I'm
           | simply lamenting the choice that DDG has made, in the same
           | way Steve Jobs lamented the marketing-heavy PepsiCo for a
           | lack of attention towards their products.
        
         | dadoge wrote:
         | I don't think this is that contrarian of a view.
         | 
         | I, for one, assumed that at least half of HN would agree with
         | you. HN has a skew of people that are pro DDG, but not so much
         | that this is all that contrarian of a view
        
         | cmeacham98 wrote:
         | Serious question: what's the alternative? I've been using DDG
         | for 1-2 years now (switched away from Google), but I'm open to
         | trying alternatives.
         | 
         | My rough requirements are:
         | 
         | 1. Ads are served based on searches, not tracking me across the
         | web (I could also probably be convinced to pay a reasonable
         | price for an ad-free search engine, but the search better be
         | _really_ good)
         | 
         | 2. Something similar to DDG's bangs. And yes, I know I can
         | replicate the effect myself in browser, but that's not what I
         | want - I want the pre-existing library of them.
         | 
         | 3. Ability to search a specific site, (i.e. Google's/DDG's
         | site:example.com)
         | 
         | 4. Image search (bonus points for a reverse image search)
        
           | foreverCarlos wrote:
           | Kagi. Search results are far better than DDG, and all the
           | customizations they offer bump the quality higher than Google
           | for me.
        
             | cmeacham98 wrote:
             | I took a look, but I am _very_ worried they will drop my
             | account for (as their ToS puts it) "our provision of the
             | Services to you is no longer commercially viable".
             | 
             | It allegedly costs them $1 for every 80 searches. On the 5
             | days of the week I do my day job I probably average 60-80
             | searches _per day_.
        
               | foreverCarlos wrote:
               | Interesting. I have a horrible habit of typing just the
               | beginning of a domain name and then letting the search
               | engine find that website for me. So I end up searching
               | hundreds of times per day. Kagi has not complained to me
               | so far.
               | 
               | I think that clause is in their ToS to prevent actual
               | misuse of the service, e.g. building a scraper. Saying
               | that, I agree that it's a concerning provision.
        
         | yegg wrote:
         | We have actually been continually working on improving our
         | search results. We're working on a new page to detail major
         | updates on a quarterly basis, which should be live in a few
         | weeks.
         | 
         | At the same time, we've been continuously developing our Web
         | Tracking Protections for our browsers and extensions. We also
         | made a page for that here that is already out:
         | https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-pages/privacy/we...
        
           | notlukesky wrote:
           | Did you join the "downranking" and "censorship" game to
           | create a competitive advantage? Or was there national
           | security state forcing, threats, payoffs and interference as
           | the Twitter files have revealed?
           | 
           | https://www.vox.com/recode/22981115/duckduckgo-free-
           | speech-p...
        
             | yegg wrote:
             | No. There have been many inaccurate stories going around
             | about us. Here's a recent fact check: https://www.usatoday.
             | com/story/news/factcheck/2022/12/02/fac.... And here is the
             | page we put out ourselves on our news rankings:
             | https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-
             | pages/results/ne.... From that page:                 "A
             | search engine's primary job is to rank results. In other
             | words, search engines try to put results that most quickly
             | and accurately answer the query on top. At DuckDuckGo we
             | produce search results from a variety of sources, and when
             | we apply our own ranking signals we do so in a strictly
             | non-political manner, meaning we don't evaluate or
             | otherwise take into account any potential political bias or
             | leanings of websites in our search result rankings."
        
               | puffoflogic wrote:
               | Silence is violence. By refusing to up-rank reliable
               | sources you have declared your allegiance to Neonazis and
               | other undesirables.
        
               | rolph wrote:
               | ads are never relevant to my search query, but they
               | always show up top, google style, when i use DDG
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | I can't seem to remove terms from search results any more,
           | and I've tried every syntax I could think of. The reason I
           | tried every syntax I could think of is because I couldn't
           | figure out anywhere on DDG where search syntax is explained
           | (other than !bangs.) I could have sworn there was an easily
           | accessible page in the past that explained that.
        
             | naavis wrote:
             | You open the DuckDuckGo website, select "Help" from the
             | sidebar and write "syntax" into the search box:
             | https://help.duckduckgo.com/duckduckgo-help-
             | pages/results/sy...
        
               | dingaling wrote:
               | The main problem I have with the syntax is that "-"
               | doesn't remove that term from the search results. In fact
               | I'm not sure what it does.
               | 
               | For example, search "cats" and "cats -adopt". The second
               | result for me in both cases is "Cats for adoption".
        
               | naavis wrote:
               | That is true, no arguments against that. I merely wanted
               | to point out that it is relatively easy to find the
               | mentioned help page.
        
       | SquareWheel wrote:
       | Note that these prompts can also be disabled in your Google
       | account settings. I find them very irritating so I've disabled it
       | on all accounts I manage.
       | 
       | https://www.howtogeek.com/735152/how-to-turn-off-the-sign-in...
        
         | kramerger wrote:
         | Doesn't that require you to be logged in with Google already?
        
           | SquareWheel wrote:
           | Yes. If you're not logged in with Google, you won't get these
           | prompts in the first place.
           | 
           | edit: Some comments below suggesting this is mistaken. Sorry,
           | I hadn't noticed that in the past.
        
             | lapcat wrote:
             | Not true at all. Happens even in incognito/private windows.
        
               | giancarlostoro wrote:
               | Is this only whilst using Google Chrome? Cause
               | technically most people on Chrome login to it
        
               | lapcat wrote:
               | > Is this only whilst using Google Chrome?
               | 
               | No, also in Firefox and Safari.
               | 
               | > Cause technically most people on Chrome login to it
               | 
               | I don't.
        
               | giancarlostoro wrote:
               | I dont either but most people I know do. I use Firefox
               | containers which deters that dialog if you get the multi
               | account container plugin.
        
             | dessant wrote:
             | Google has decided to show these popups by default to
             | everyone that is browsing the web with tracking protection
             | enabled since October 2022. This prompt has started to pop
             | in our faces on most sites that integrate Google Sign-In as
             | soon as we visit a page, often covering the content we are
             | trying to view, and the website operators need to take
             | specific steps to change the default behavior. We can only
             | applaud DuckDuckGo for attempting to mitigate the
             | destructive actions of Google.
             | 
             | https://developers.google.com/identity/gsi/web/guides/itp#o
             | p...
        
               | foreverCarlos wrote:
               | Now this page is also broken (iOS Safari). The sidebar
               | menu is open all the way and blocking most of the page.
               | No way to close it. Nice work, Google!
        
             | kramerger wrote:
             | Don't you get the other one, about logging in with Google?
        
               | probably_wrong wrote:
               | Yes, you do.
        
         | batter wrote:
         | Thank you, was looking for this long time.
        
         | AuthorizedCust wrote:
         | The instructions in the "key takeaway" part are wrong. There is
         | no "Google account Sign-in Prompts" option in the "Signing in
         | with Google" section.
        
           | SquareWheel wrote:
           | They're not wrong, but there are two sections with similar
           | names. Scroll down further to this box.
           | 
           | https://www.howtogeek.com/wp-
           | content/uploads/2021/06/2-sign-...
        
             | AuthorizedCust wrote:
             | Oops, thank you. One is "to", and the other is "with".
        
       | ck2 wrote:
       | How long is DDG's contract with Bing?
       | 
       | Amazing how far they've come just as a Bing proxy but if they are
       | ever cut off, they will be gone overnight.
       | 
       | BTW how do people know they truly are anonymous, has their
       | code/connection to Bing ever been audited?
        
         | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
         | They weren't just a Bing proxy. They also mixed in Yandex
         | results which were obvious when they were links to Russian
         | language sites.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | I hate that one of the results of that arrangement is that 50%
         | of news search results are the MSN version of articles posted
         | elsewhere. Another 40% of the results are the _Yahoo version_
         | of an article posted elsewhere; I assume that 's not a Bing
         | thing, but it's a bad thing.
        
       | kamray23 wrote:
       | Barely news, to be honest. Just blocks the annoying popup and the
       | requests that popping it up causes. Google Sign-In still
       | explicitly possible, you just don't get a pop-up. One annoyance
       | less.
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | ...it was news for me. As a Brave browser user, there are a few
         | social media switches in the setting that i have set to 'off';
         | combined with this - things should be even better (as well as
         | having another reason to go through the ://flags settings). I
         | rotate through my available built-in search engine[s] in Brave,
         | I'll go back to ddg to try this out. Nb - search with all
         | engines this past 18months has been uniformly 'poor'.
        
           | vorpalhex wrote:
           | Give kagi (paid) a shot. It's been the only tolerable option
           | for me and has been working well even on obscure searches.
        
       | we_never_see_it wrote:
       | [dead]
        
       | archsurface wrote:
       | Good riddance. I have zero tolerance for that obnoxious dark
       | pattern.
        
       | somehnacct3757 wrote:
       | What content blockers do people use alongside Safari on iOS?
       | 
       | I've been trying Firefox Focus but it's barebones, ad-centric,
       | and doing nothing for cookie popups. Now with these Google popups
       | infesting the web it feels like the 90s again and has made me
       | stop browsing the web on my tablet.
        
         | foreverCarlos wrote:
         | AdGuard Pro. It's a paid (one-time fee) app that works almost
         | as well as uBlock Origin on desktop.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | Wipr.
        
         | bunnyfoofoo wrote:
         | I'm using Wipr combined with NextDNS. It doesn't block these by
         | default, but I added the accounts.google.com domain to NextDNS.
        
         | lazycouchpotato wrote:
         | I've been using Orion browser for a while. It did not show the
         | Google pop-up like Safari did.
         | 
         | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/orion-browser-by-kagi/id148449...
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-12-25 23:02 UTC)