[HN Gopher] This is the year of the RSS reader?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       This is the year of the RSS reader?
        
       Author : alexzeitler
       Score  : 415 points
       Date   : 2022-12-23 13:32 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.niemanlab.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.niemanlab.org)
        
       | 40four wrote:
       | I've tried twice now, and for the life of me, I have absolutely
       | no idea what this post is trying to say. For an associate
       | professor of _communications_ , the writing is absolutely
       | atrocious. I can't make heads or tails of this rambling multitude
       | of grammatical errors, passive aggressive insults, and buzz-word
       | saturated soup.
       | 
       | I get that it one of a collection of predictions about how media
       | in 2023 will look. But besides the title invoking the usual,
       | repetitive conversations we have about the 'State of RSS', I have
       | no idea why it's here. I might bookmark this just as an example
       | of how _not_ to write a post. Especially if you don't want to
       | confuse your reader, and actually express a clear thesis.
       | 
       | Regardless, I'm an every day user of NetNewsWire on my phone, and
       | I hope their prediction is right. It is about the only way I
       | consume my news at this point. Even if RSS doesn't have a
       | revival, it's fine. As long as all the major news orgs continue
       | to provide RSS feeds, I will be here consuming them.
        
         | jacktribe wrote:
         | ChatGPT summarized: "Something something Twitter bad."
        
         | jasonlotito wrote:
         | > I've tried twice now, and for the life of me, I have
         | absolutely no idea what this post is trying to say.
         | 
         | It's answering the question: "Each year, Nieman Lab asks some
         | of the smartest people in journalism what they think is coming
         | in the new year. Here are their predictions for 2023."
         | 
         | > For an associate professor of communications, the writing is
         | absolutely atrocious. I can't make heads or tails of this
         | rambling multitude of grammatical errors, passive aggressive
         | insults, and buzz-word saturated soup.
         | 
         | Is that true? Heads or tails? Seemed trivial to understand this
         | for me.
         | 
         | > I get that it one of a collection of predictions about how
         | media in 2023 will look,
         | 
         | Oh, and you still don't get that it's saying that 2023 will be
         | the rise of the RSS reader? I thought that was pretty obvious.
         | 
         | > I have no idea why it's here
         | 
         | Here on HN? Because someone shared it and people upvoted it.
         | That's how HN works.
         | 
         | Or do you mean on the site? I think we've discussed that
         | already.
         | 
         | > Especially if you don't want to confuse your reader, and
         | actually express a clear thesis.
         | 
         | I don't think it was meant to convince you of anything. It was
         | merely predictions. A simple question, and simple answers,
         | shared online. It's not complicated.
         | 
         | > I might bookmark this just as an example of how not to write
         | a post.
         | 
         | I'm doing the same for your comment, for similar reasons.
         | 
         | Note: Don't like the tone of this comment? Just reflecting the
         | energy you put out.
        
           | jovial_cavalier wrote:
           | I agree with GP.
           | 
           | "The difference, going into 2023, is that even the Inbox Zero
           | people are going to have a reason to complain. Left without a
           | better way to quickly zoom in and zoom out on the state of
           | the universe (also known as the world according to Twitter),
           | I predict those people will reach a point of frustration in
           | even their ability to manage email."
           | 
           | What does this even mean? This is a massive non-sequitur. I
           | stopped reading here.
        
             | sprkwd wrote:
             | That is totally written by a robot.
        
             | HNDen21 wrote:
             | It means the person is getting paid by the number of words
             | in the article.. so adding a bunch of fluff to increase
             | that count
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _Is that true? Heads or tails? Seemed trivial to understand
           | this for me._
           | 
           | I understood it, too. But then, I have a degree in
           | Communications.
           | 
           | People on HN think that just because they can understand
           | written source code that they can automatically understand
           | any writing.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | symlinkk wrote:
         | People, including the person reading this comment right now,
         | just see "RSS good" in the title and click the upvote button.
        
       | itsjustmath wrote:
       | I was looking for solutions to get RSS feeds of twitter and
       | YouTube profiles and came across this useful tool:
       | https://rssbox.fly.dev/
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | For YouTube, the channel page has auto-discovery links. So you
         | should just be able to paste the channel URL
         | (https://www.youtube.com/@examplechannel) into your feed reader
         | and it will find the right link.
        
       | pentagrama wrote:
       | I will not be surprised if Google relaunches Google Reader in
       | 2023. Without fanfare, and as a simple, limited and low-effort
       | product as Google Podcasts (https://podcasts.google.com).
       | 
       | It will be a nice experiment for them, they don't dominate on the
       | Social Media or Newsletters field, and a RSS reader challenges
       | that field in some ways. Also a act of redeeming the killing of
       | that product 10 years earlier (for a mostly nerdy/vocal
       | minority).
       | 
       | If successful obviously they will put ads on them later (Google
       | Podcasts remains ad-free for now).
        
         | gmuslera wrote:
         | It would be a good April Fools event, a few of their good
         | products were launched in that date, like gmail.
         | 
         | Or a Halloween one, the launch of Google Zombie Reader.
        
       | HissingMachine wrote:
       | So the whole opinion piece hinges on unpopularity of Twitter?
       | Bold move.
        
       | delecti wrote:
       | I'm a happy user of an RSS reader, but the chance of having a
       | "year of the RSS reader" died with Google Reader, and nothing has
       | come along to make it any more likely. Most people want
       | centralization and to not have to mess with things.
        
       | vesinisa wrote:
       | 2006 called and want their headline back ..
        
       | frouge wrote:
       | What we need to revive RSS is have a true integration into
       | browsers. Your bookmarks would display the numbers of unread
       | posts and there is probably more great stuff to do.
        
         | TrevorAustin wrote:
         | Without having dipped into the code before, how hard would it
         | be run a fork of Chromium that did this?
        
         | acidburnNSA wrote:
         | That was removed from Firefox in version 64
         | 
         | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/live-bookmarks
        
         | Springtime wrote:
         | Vivaldi has had an in-built RSS client for years now, taking
         | after Opera's original feature years back.
         | 
         | Edit: link since I notice they have a page about it.
         | https://vivaldi.com/features/feed-reader/
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | Honestly just returning the icon that appeared when the site
         | had a feed would be a huge win. Browser integrated feed-readers
         | and bookmark notifications were nice but dedicated RSS readers
         | are probably going to be better. You can click the feed icon
         | and the browser can redirect you to your preferred feed reader.
         | 
         | There are extensions that do this but having it built-in would
         | make it widely available and easier to set up.
        
       | 1attice wrote:
       | THE YEAR OF, THE YEAR OF ----------------------- (a poem)
       | 
       | This is the year of the RSS reader, said Hacker News.
       | 
       | This is the year of the Linux desktop.
       | 
       | This is the year of IPv6.
       | 
       | This is the year of ____ battery technology that is ____ times
       | better than Li-ion for ____ application, but is impractical
       | because it _______
       | 
       | This is the year of the portable fission reactor.
       | 
       | This is the year of the tokamak; this is the year of the
       | stellarator; this is the year of quantum supremacy.
       | 
       | This is the year of not quite-yet.
       | 
       | This is the year that we finally expose those weird woke people.
       | 
       | This is the year that we finally expose those flagrant futurist-
       | fascists.
       | 
       | This is the year that there was another shooting, and then
       | another, but we were fascinated by the ghost guns, not the torn
       | flesh.
       | 
       | This is the year we invented "freedom of reach", because it
       | rhymed, and there is no tax on superfluous fine distinctions.
       | Nor, it would seem, on rich mens' folly.
       | 
       | This is the year, this is the year, this is the year.
       | 
       | This is the gyre, this is the gyre, this is the gyre.
       | 
       | We love the merry-go-round; for when it goes fast enough, it
       | really feels like you're getting somewhere.
        
       | nitin-pai wrote:
       | I don't know about the "year of..." but RSS readers are
       | definitely the best option to consume information in a manner
       | that leaves the individual with control, while being exposed to a
       | broad range of thinking. And consuming content from a broad range
       | of media.
       | 
       | I do hope 2023 becomes the year of the comeback of RSS.
        
         | jfengel wrote:
         | I don't understand the love of RSS readers. The basic concept
         | is trivial; you could write one in five minutes. It doesn't
         | seem radically different from any of thousands of news
         | aggregator type web sites, including HN.
         | 
         | I read upthread that Google Reader had a social mechanism for
         | recommending feeds to friends. That's great for discovery, but
         | it still hardly seems earth-shaking.
         | 
         | It feels an awful lot like a rose-colored-glasses situation,
         | where something existed that wasn't horrible but doesn't
         | reappear because it wasn't all that great, either. What is it
         | I'm missing?
        
           | hombre_fatal wrote:
           | I don't think the tech is the interesting part. Most websites
           | I want to read don't even post the whole article on an RSS
           | feed, and you're at the mercy of every website offering a
           | feed.
           | 
           | The better solution is a post-RSS smart reader where you can
           | drop links into it and it figures out how to turn the website
           | into a feed and it caches all the content so the origin never
           | needs to be available.
           | 
           | We over cling to RSS the same way we over cling to IRC
           | instead of looking for ways to build on the good parts. Then
           | we're always stuck reminiscing and over glamorizing a past
           | that wasn't as good as we remember.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _It doesn 't seem radically different from any of thousands
           | of news aggregator type web sites, including HN._
           | 
           | It allows you to tailor your aggregation, and create you own
           | aggregation of topics if there isn't another aggregator out
           | there.
           | 
           | Are you into kumquats, ancient Mesopotamia, and The
           | Buzzcocks? You're not going to find a web aggregator for
           | that. But you can put together several RSS feeds into your
           | own aggregation.
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | Couldn't I just subscribe to kumquats, ancient Mesopotamia,
             | and The Buzzcocks groups on Facebook? Yeah, I know "the
             | algorithm" means that I'd miss some things and have other
             | things injected into my feed, but it doesn't sound like the
             | total content is radically different.
             | 
             | I understand the idea of wanting to feel more control by
             | seeing precisely and exactly the groups you asked for, but
             | I feel like it's not really a radical change in terms of
             | content.
        
               | vanilla_nut wrote:
               | Facebook shoves content I don't care about in my face,
               | and frequently hides content from pages and people that I
               | do care about (who don'y pay Zuck's troll toll or play
               | visibility optimization games like emphasizing useless
               | Story content).
               | 
               | My RSS reader (FreshRSS, self-hosted, and NetNewsWire on
               | macOS/iOS) shows me all posts from all feeds I've chosen
               | to subscribe to. Nothing more, nothing less. No ads, no
               | murky VC cloud funding -- I self host on my own raspberry
               | pi -- and no privacy concerns.
               | 
               | Social media is kind of like a flaky RSS feed with
               | comments from people I don't know or care about that
               | sometimes doesn't show me content I DO want to see but
               | also constantly shows me ads, tries to manipulate me into
               | spending more time browsing, and hoovers up as much data
               | as humanly possible. Oh, and it changes the UI every 6-8
               | months in seemingly random UX a/b tests in the name of
               | "optimization." And it radicalizes my older relatives
               | politically.
               | 
               | That seems like a pretty shitty RSS feed to me.
        
               | lexoj wrote:
               | Then you need to check Facebook everyday to not miss
               | stuff, whereas with RSS you have full control WHEN you
               | consume your feeds.
        
               | musictubes wrote:
               | Most of the sites that I follow do not have a presence on
               | Facebook. Plus it's nice to have the info sent to you
               | unencumbered by the nonsense/ads/privacy concerns on
               | social media sites.
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | _Couldn 't I just subscribe to kumquats, ancient
               | Mesopotamia, and The Buzzcocks groups on Facebook?_
               | 
               | Sure, you could. I can't. I'm locked out of Facebook. And
               | in spite of sending a photo of my government ID into
               | Facebook's customer service black hole, nothing has
               | changed.
               | 
               | RSS gives me the freedom to aggregate information without
               | relying on some faceless tech company to decide when I
               | can have it, and when I should be cut off.
        
           | _ix wrote:
           | I'm not sure what you're missing. I think aggregators are
           | great for a lot of things, but I primarily use it for
           | discovery. I infrequently contribute (like this, I guess?).
           | After discovery, RSS is really convenient to continue
           | consuming that source's content, regardless of its appearance
           | on an aggregator a second time.
        
           | Turing_Machine wrote:
           | > It doesn't seem radically different from any of thousands
           | of news aggregator type web sites, including HN.
           | 
           | RSS lets me subscribe to everything jfengel (say) posts, not
           | just the minority of jfengel posts that make it onto HN. That
           | matters for those who are jfengel fans.
           | 
           | Edit: of course, it's also useful if jfengel only posts about
           | once a month. You don't want to miss anything, but neither do
           | you want to visit the blog every day to see if there's
           | something new. Facebook is terrible at this -- I regularly
           | find that I've missed something that a friend who is an
           | occasional FB user has posed.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | >of course, it's also useful if jfengel only posts about
             | once a month.
             | 
             | I think that's the point a number of people on this thread
             | are missing. Newsletters, for example, are fine if there
             | are a handful of people who publish regularly/frequently
             | who you want to follow. They're less useful if you want to
             | follow what 50 people who may only publish something once a
             | month are writing.
        
           | weberer wrote:
           | Its not about discovery or aggregation or being social. Its a
           | way to keep up to date with things you explicitly subscribe
           | to. You have a bunch of sites that you like, which puts out
           | periodic updates. Like a weekly webcomic, or a news site, or
           | local weather alerts. Then you subscribe to those feeds. Then
           | whenever they make a new post, it shows as an update in your
           | reader. Think Twitter, but instead of 280 character posts,
           | they're previews of other webpages.
        
           | revolvingocelot wrote:
           | It's about the locus of control. HN, or other aggregators,
           | are about the crowd curating your feed; RSS is about you
           | curating your feed. The unit of attention, namely some
           | headline, is either presented to you by The Algorithm
           | (whether human-powered or otherwise) if on a modern
           | aggregator, or your own previous choices if using RSS.
           | 
           | In modernity, we might call that latter a "filter bubble",
           | but in the parlance of the 00s, we thought of it as a
           | "personal newspaper".
        
             | jfengel wrote:
             | Isn't your source of RSS feeds the curation? Is that very
             | different from Facebook or Twitter showing you the people
             | you subscribe to?
             | 
             | I know Facebook and Twitter play stupid games with "the
             | algorithm", injecting stuff you didn't ask for and hiding
             | stuff from your friends, but in the end it's not as if you
             | were just being force-fed solely stuff you had no interest
             | in.
             | 
             | So wouldn't an RSS feed be just as much of a filter bubble,
             | based on who you choose to subscribe to? You might feel
             | better knowing that you were seeing it in a simple
             | chronological order without the algorithmic opinion, but it
             | doesn't seem like a solution to filter bubbles.
        
               | Veen wrote:
               | I don't think anyone is claiming that RSS a solution to
               | the filter bubble problem. But the benefit of RSS is that
               | you create your own filter bubble, rather than relying on
               | someone else's (often malicious) algorithm to do it for
               | you.
        
               | revolvingocelot wrote:
               | >Isn't your source of RSS feeds the curation?
               | 
               | Like I said, RSS is about you curating your feed. Using
               | RSS, you don't see headlines from anything you didn't
               | choose to see.
               | 
               | >in the end it's not as if you were just being force-fed
               | solely stuff you had no interest in
               | 
               | That's trivially true. That said, if the choice,
               | regarding seeing shit I'm not interested in/calculated
               | ragebait/for-profit spam/etc, is between seeing it
               | "never" and seeing it "sometimes, when someone else wants
               | me to see it", the choice seems obvious.
               | 
               | >it doesn't seem like a solution to filter bubbles
               | 
               | I don't think it is either; that said, I still think it's
               | better. Part of the conceptual transition from "personal
               | newspaper" to "filter bubble" was the increasing
               | prevalence of calculated ragebait/for-profit spam/etc on
               | aggregators -- the pressures present in aggregators, and
               | the inevitable comment sections, help shape content to be
               | more ragey or spammy, to get that all-important
               | _engagement_. That shaping happens everywhere on the
               | aggregator -- here on HN, for instance, dang goes around
               | silencing non-HNish comments with impunity and without
               | appeals. This isn 't a bad thing, but it is a shaping of
               | the aggregator's content by shaping the aggregator's
               | culture. If one spends all one's time on an aggregator,
               | consuming that shaped culture, one's perspective can
               | easily start to skew. With a "personal newspaper", one is
               | more aware of the artificiality -- it's not a site
               | itself, it's just the sum total of the RSS feeds of blogs
               | X, Y, and Z. A "filter bubble"'s ostensibly organic
               | culture, and ostensibly broader curation, helps one
               | convince oneself that it's a community with justified
               | beliefs.
               | 
               | RSS doesn't really afford that kind of escalation. If HN
               | were dang's blog, the pressure he exerts would only
               | affect the comments section of that blog. Sure, audience
               | pressure can help make an RSS'd source more extreme, but
               | if that pressure happens it's got to be occurring on the
               | site's own commenting infrastructure, which means local
               | moderation can sort it out. At a minimum, there's no
               | chance of the contamination hopping RSS feed sources (at
               | least, via RSS itself).
        
               | musictubes wrote:
               | With Facebook and Twitter you subscribe to people and
               | brands. It is trivially easy to make a social media post
               | so they tend to be more numerous and less
               | useful/informative. RSS is usually used to subscribe to
               | blog posts/articles which tend to be more in depth.
               | Someone upthread mentioned a magazine and I think that is
               | a good comparison. Curated long form writing about
               | subjects that interest you makes it quite a bit different
               | than social media.
               | 
               | RSS is also handy for following blogs or websites that
               | only post intermittently.
               | 
               | RSS and filter bubbles could go either way. Nothing
               | stopping you from filling your feeds with folks that
               | don't think the way you do. Most of us don't have the
               | patience to wade through thoughts contrary to our own.
               | That's the real issue when it comes to popping your
               | filter bubble, not which tool you use to get the info.
        
         | kgwxd wrote:
         | For me the biggest selling point of RSS is never having to
         | rescan over feed items I've already read, or decided to skip,
         | to find the new stuff. Another big one is that there's an end
         | to the list. Neither of those are a huge deal for low-volume
         | feeds but for HN and Reddit, they're priceless to me.
        
         | deltarholamda wrote:
         | >consume information in a manner that leaves the individual
         | with control
         | 
         | This is both the main feature, and the biggest obstacle. The
         | people with the money do no want the individual to have
         | control. Thus it has always been and shall always be.
         | 
         | Folks are banging on Elon because they feel he's using Twitter
         | to manipulate, but it's not like Twitter was different pre-
         | Elon. Elon simply gave The Man a face, voice and smell.
         | 
         | Back in the blogosphere (I hate that word) days, a lot of RSS
         | was floating around. It wasn't very good, as RSS
         | implementations varied a lot. But when it was working well, it
         | was so good. If I have a complaint about returning to RSS it
         | would be that we will return to the days of clickbaity
         | headlines.
        
           | ascagnel_ wrote:
           | > we will return to the days of clickbaity headlines
           | 
           | We entered those days and have yet to leave. If anything, the
           | rise of social media (at RSS's expense) turbo-charged
           | clickbait headlines, since now it's easy to measure
           | engagement around those stories, both in terms of views and
           | in terms of comments/likes/shares/etc.
        
             | tracker1 wrote:
             | Gated through fewer sources providing much more analytics
             | definitely changes the game there.
        
           | imadj wrote:
           | > If I have a complaint about returning to RSS it would be
           | that we will return to the days of clickbaity headlines
           | 
           | Wait, what do you mean? Clickbaiting (and borderline
           | misinformation) has been getting only worse ever since
        
             | deltarholamda wrote:
             | Fair enough, "return" is not the correct word here. Maybe
             | "we will solidify the importance of clickbaity headlines"?
             | 
             | I first noticed the up-tick of clickbait headlines in the
             | salad days of RSS. Due to this, I tend to ignore headlines
             | these days, because I was trained to assume the headline
             | was complete nonsense. So my internal metrics are a bit
             | wonky.
        
       | _Algernon_ wrote:
       | Is it also going to be the year of the Linux desktop?
        
       | zzzzzzzza wrote:
       | someone please make a gpt based rss feed summarizer. i use rss
       | but it would be great if gpt could just read all the titles for
       | me and give me a summary.
       | 
       | would be great if you could give it feedback after reading over
       | the feed yourself and highlight areas you think it missed or got
       | right
        
       | thirdplace_ wrote:
       | I built a small tool that helps to discover feed urls. It uses
       | various hardcoded and dynamic rules:
       | https://discovery.thirdplace.no/?q=https://www.tek.no
       | 
       | It's FOSS and has an http json api.
        
       | nickdothutton wrote:
       | One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from mere
       | reader to content creator. Said another way, RSS doesn't have a
       | reply function and that makes it harder to iterate around user
       | feedback. Some of which can be very valuable.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from
         | mere reader to content creator._
         | 
         | That's a feature, not a bug.
         | 
         | It's the difference between publish/subscribe and social chat.
         | 
         | When people unsubscribe, there's your feedback. Just like with
         | newspapers.
        
         | cosmojg wrote:
         | Email? Response blogs? This has been a solved problem for a
         | while now.
        
         | pbowyer wrote:
         | > One of the problems with RSS is lack of a feedback loop from
         | mere reader to content creator. Said another way, RSS doesn't
         | have a reply function and that makes it harder to iterate
         | around user feedback. Some of which can be very valuable.
         | 
         | Did any RSS readers build commenting into them - or even the
         | viewing of comments? I remember subscribing to a blog, and then
         | having to visit the site to view the comments or post a
         | comment. And then subscribing to a separate RSS feed to
         | subscribe to the comments for any post that I wanted updates
         | on.
         | 
         | For me that was where RSS fell short.
        
           | musictubes wrote:
           | Most RSS readers will only show whatever the author wants to
           | share via RSS. Often times you need to click through to the
           | actual blog to read the rest. That's where you can comment.
           | 
           | Unread is the RSS reader I use on iOS and iPadOS. It does
           | scrape the site and give the entire article. I love it but
           | now I wonder if it's a good idea to circumvent the wishes of
           | the blogger. I use Newsblur as the aggregator and tie Unread
           | to it. The Newsblur portal to my RSS feeds works well enough
           | in the browser on computers.
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | If you want it, just add a link to a feedback page on the
         | bottom of your posts.
        
         | jerf wrote:
         | I think the biggest thing holding back the development of the
         | next generation of social networks is this pernicious belief
         | that it is _mandatory_ to put some sort of public comment
         | section on everything, where anybody with a pulse (or the
         | technical wherewithal to fake it adequately enough) can slap
         | anything they want down next to your content. Context matters,
         | and this has a certain inevitable effect even on the original
         | content.
         | 
         | It is a tool. It has times and places. It is not mandatory, nor
         | is it always a good thing. It is quite often a really, really
         | bad thing. It can always be adjoined to a piece of content,
         | like we're doing right now. It is not mandatory for the
         | original poster to host it.
         | 
         | If you want a social network that works that way, you are
         | spoiled for choice. If you are unhappy with those social
         | networks, consider the possibility that much of your
         | unhappiness may in fact stem from this very idea. If it seems
         | like everywhere you go is kind of a cacophony of regression-to-
         | the-mean discussion, insults, lowest-common-denominator... this
         | is the root cause.
         | 
         | It is not a bad thing that "replying" to the creator of an RSS-
         | based blog is exactly as hard as they choose to make it, up to
         | and including making it impossible.
        
           | nickdothutton wrote:
           | This is why I charitably say "_some_ of which".
        
           | rinze wrote:
           | I completely agree. I used to have a Wordpress blog with
           | comments enabled, and that brought me a few headaches at some
           | point.
           | 
           | Later on, I moved to Pelican, which is a static generator,
           | and below every article there's an info box that indicates
           | that no, there's no commenting system, and lists a couple of
           | ways someone can reach me if they wish to discuss that
           | particular article. So far, it's working.
        
             | Avamander wrote:
             | Some of the best info and discussions I've stumbled upon
             | were under someone's article in the comments.
             | 
             | It's not always just for the benefit of the writer, I mean.
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | Why does user feedback need to happen on the same channel as
         | new content notifications? In my mind keeping a distinction is
         | a huge advantage because it puts the creator in charge of how
         | they interact with their audience.
         | 
         | They could add a comment section to their WordPress blog. They
         | could cross-post to Reddit. They could have an email dedicated
         | to comments and feedback. They could do none of those things
         | because they really don't care what the audience thinks.
         | 
         | Because RSS/Atom doesn't integrate two-way interaction, there
         | are no preconceived notions of how the second direction ought
         | to work.
        
           | gpanders wrote:
           | >They could have an email dedicated to comments and feedback.
           | 
           | Some technical blogs I follow use this. They create a public
           | mailing list that they treat as their "public inbox". Anyone
           | can send an email to it, and all messages are publicly
           | viewable. No signup or account required either since it's all
           | just email.
           | 
           | I'm a fan of this solution personally.
        
         | tracker1 wrote:
         | On a similar note, however, how many sites have explicitly
         | removed comments at this point?
         | 
         | I know there was a Gab browser extension that would effectively
         | make all sites have comment sections, and there are other
         | similar attempts, but none seemed to gain any significant
         | traction.
        
         | vidanay wrote:
         | I don't want content creators to shape their content according
         | to feedback and popularity. I want content creators who shape
         | their content according to their interests and desires and
         | experiences.
        
           | anthonypasq wrote:
           | I feel like there's been an extremely strong push in our
           | current culture against actual artistic visionairies that's
           | being driven by toxic and infantile "fan communities" that
           | screech endlessly on the internet about anything they don't
           | like.
           | 
           | Art apparently isn't about a creative realizing their unique
           | vision, its about doing things mouthbreathers like. People
           | seem to be viscerally offended when someone unapologetically
           | makes something that isn't for them.
           | 
           | Bring back gatekeeping.
        
           | JonathanBeuys wrote:
           | Then why did you write this feedback?
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | Because posting in a forum doesn't make you a content
             | creator, and this isn't an RSS feed?
        
         | bsnnkv wrote:
         | I had a nice conversation last week with someone on HN
         | discussing how I went about making items on my RSS feeds
         | commentable.[1]
         | 
         | I think with a little bit of creativity it's still possible to
         | innovate quite a bit with/on top of RSS.
         | 
         | [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33978500
        
         | charles_f wrote:
         | Email address for feedback at the bottom of the post? Easily
         | fixed problem.
        
       | pixelmonkey wrote:
       | I used to be a big fan of RSS readers, and I even built one, of
       | sorts, as a startup at one point in 2009. But these days, I tend
       | to just use Instapaper.
       | 
       | I have the plugin installed in all my browsers, and if I'm
       | looking for something to read, I swipe thru my saves using the
       | Instapaper Chrome web interface, Android app, or (most commonly)
       | iPad app. I have Instapaper and Readwise synced up, which adds a
       | little extra incentive (highlights) for doing things that way.
       | 
       | How do I find stuff to Instapaper? These days, it's TechMeme,
       | Hacker News, Lobste.rs, Reddit, Twitter, Google News, Apple News
       | (on iPad). Heavily weighted to the first four sources, with #1-#4
       | being maybe 80% of my saved links that come from aggregators.
       | 
       | Recently I have been beta testing Readwise Reader. It's probably
       | as good a reading experience as I could currently imagine (it's
       | sort of Instapaper on steroids, and it even syncs with
       | Instapaper). But, even still, I find the entire category a little
       | tired.
       | 
       | The big issue is source quality. It's harder to find a small
       | group of regular bloggers that might make a curated RSS reader
       | experience worthwhile. When I was younger, I'd read Joel Spolsky,
       | Paul Graham, and dozens of developer blogs, and that was
       | "enough". These days, to get the same sort of volume and quality,
       | I'd need to curate hundreds (maybe thousands) of sources. It's
       | also sad, but true, that the average blog on the internet is
       | simply no longer publishing new posts. That is, the typical blog
       | with an interesting archive is likely abandoned in terms of new
       | posts going online, or has the publishing rate reduced to an
       | annual trickle. So it's not worth my time to predict and curate
       | the exceptions.
        
       | pwillia7 wrote:
       | Chrome in Android has a built in RSS reader in chrome now labeled
       | the 'following' tab in your new tab page. I've been using this
       | with great success lately. The key for me was to pick only a few
       | really high quality sources instead of 99999 sources.
       | https://9to5google.com/2021/10/08/chrome-rss-web-feed/
       | 
       | There's a flag for desktop too. You can enable 'Feed' in the
       | sidebar, but it doesn't work for me on any platform at the
       | moment.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | > pick only a few really high quality sources
         | 
         | That's an interesting point of view. I tend to find that the
         | high quality sources I tend to follow are very low volume. So
         | I've subscribed to hundreds of personal blogs, YouTube channels
         | and similar to produce a steady (but not high volume) flow of
         | good content.
         | 
         | Most of the higher-volume sources that I have considered
         | following are either low quality or most of the content isn't
         | within my interests.
         | 
         | Basically I tend to prefer 100 good sources that post a few
         | times a year than 2 sources that post daily. Of course this
         | isn't a hard rule, it is just the collaboration that I have
         | seen. There are obviously some teams that put out high-quality
         | content on a regular schedule.
        
         | Jackevansevo wrote:
         | How long will this feature last until it inevitably gets
         | canned?
        
           | mananaysiempre wrote:
           | The longevity of Chrome features generally seems to be much
           | better than that of Google products in general. I can only
           | think of a few major removals: FTP, NSAPI and the ongoing MV2
           | debacle, Chrome apps, Gears; I don't remember if any variant
           | of NaCl ever shipped as non-beta, and I'm sure Dart-
           | in-<script> never did.
        
           | bombolo wrote:
           | It needs some adoption first... no point in canning something
           | nobody uses. It'd be too simple.
        
             | pwillia7 wrote:
             | yeah they'll have to wait until they ship physical RSS
             | readers out
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I don't know. For a "few" high quality sources you can just
         | check the sources directly. For me, the big win for RSS in the
         | blogosphere world was you could follow a lot of sources that
         | published pretty sporadically but sometimes had interesting
         | things when they did publish.
        
           | pwillia7 wrote:
           | Yeah, I still have quiterss setup like that, but this is my
           | alternative to doom scrolling Reddit/pop news sites. I use
           | this Chrome extension and the feed mode to be more selective
           | about my news. https://archive.is/
        
       | fnordpiglet wrote:
       | Why would I use RSS when HN does it all for me?
        
         | berniedurfee wrote:
         | I use an RSS reader for HN! A couple other feeds, but that's
         | it.
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | > We are just at peak newsletter via email delivery
       | 
       | The thing that makes substack work for me is that every one has
       | an RSS feed. Otherwise it would simply be another thing for me to
       | ignore.
        
       | clircle wrote:
       | The best thing about rss is that after i read my 30 unread
       | articles, i can just close my laptop and walk away. Who ever said
       | that twitter was going to make rss obsolete has never experienced
       | this digital freedom.
        
       | firatsarlar wrote:
       | https://theoldreader.com/ ?
        
       | nashashmi wrote:
       | Google had such a great opportunity and still does to support and
       | enhance rss with Google reader.
       | 
       | They had Google news. They had YouTube. They had Google buzz and
       | Google plus. And Google books. They were the king of media!
       | 
       | But there was no media Barron to tie and visualize the peices at
       | Google. And that wad the biggest loss to google.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | This year is the year of TV. Tiktok brought the continuous, low
       | effort video feed to everyone. TV will take this even further
       | with continuous video feeds. Probably twitter will start
       | autoscrolling like a teleprompter as well . The demand for
       | feeding tubes and catheters will also skyrocket.
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related ongoing threads:
       | 
       |  _Ask HN: What RSS Reader do you use in 2022?_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34108413
       | 
       |  _It 's time for an RSS revival (2018)_ -
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34105558
        
       | senectus1 wrote:
       | I setup a selfhosted RSS reader called FreshRSS... I migrated
       | from reader to feedly to this and have never been happier.
       | 
       | Self hosting services via docker has been a game changer for me.
        
       | haolez wrote:
       | Sim e I've started using hey.com, I'm more prone to subscribing
       | to newsletters than to use RSS readers.
       | 
       | I'm not affiliated. Just a happy customer.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | I've tried out RSS a couple times, but the intermittent support
       | for full article makes it not a tenable alternative for me. Is
       | this a solved problem, and I just haven't found it yet?
       | 
       | Also, what do "Inbox Zero people" have to do with any of this? Is
       | this a reference to people reading more newsletters now? I
       | honestly don't understand.
        
         | sunsetMurk wrote:
         | 'inbox zero' in this context is for the RSS reader's inbox, not
         | email.
         | 
         | I remember my satisfaction w/ hitting "no new stories
         | available" back in the 'Google Reader' days!
        
       | sherlock_h wrote:
       | Funny timing - I just switched all my email newsletter
       | subscriptions that I used to read on Gmail Web to Inoreader.
       | 
       | The reason was fairly simple - I wanted a better way to organize
       | my newsletters and make it feel more "reading list" like than
       | "task list" like. On email, unopened newsletters always felt like
       | tasks.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | My simple solution is to filter them all into a "News" folder
         | that doesn't notify. Then I can just open it whenever I have
         | some spare time.
        
           | kshay wrote:
           | Agreed--I love RSS, but don't really see "organizing
           | newsletters" as its killer app, or experience "newsletters
           | come via email" as a pain point. Filters seem to serve
           | basically the same purpose.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | Yeah, I see RSS and newsletters as largely equivalent
             | technologies. The have minor technical differences but 99%
             | of the read differences are social.
             | 
             | Pro Feeds:
             | 
             | 1. Once you subscribe the publisher has no way to contact
             | you. Email relies on the publisher being honest.
             | 
             | 2. Provides some history (or full history with
             | archiving/pagination atom extensions)
             | 
             | Pro Newsletter:
             | 
             | 3. Push based system by default (Feeds can use WebSub but
             | it isn't that common).
             | 
             | 4. ~everyone already has it set up.
             | 
             | At the end of the day they both transmit blobs of HTML to
             | you with some minimal metadata.
        
       | throw0101a wrote:
       | When saying "RSS" are we talking about the protocol/file format,
       | or using it proverbially for 'syndication'/feeds?
       | 
       | Any reason(s) to use RSS (0.9x/1.0/2.0) over Atom (RFC 4287)?
       | 
       | * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_feed
        
         | Turing_Machine wrote:
         | Yes, Atom is fine (preferable, even...at least to me). We're
         | probably stuck with "RSS" as the generic term, though, for much
         | the same reason we still say "making a record" for music or the
         | floppy disk icon for "save".
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | Syndication. Virtually no one refers to a protocol or file
         | format in common jargon and dialect.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure they are doing the latter. I'm not aware of any
         | feed readers that don't accept Atom and you will get much more
         | consistent results as it is more clearly specified.
        
       | perardi wrote:
       | As someone who has used RSS since NetNewsWire looked like this...
       | 
       | https://ranchero.com/images/nnw2/nnwtoolbarhidden.png
       | 
       | ...get off my lawn, kids.
       | 
       | And then let grandpa here hitch up his britches even higher:
       | people still lament the end of Google Reader for a reason.
       | 
       | In retrospect, it was the least toxic social network. You added
       | your friends, their recommendations bubbled up in the interface,
       | so you saw cool new stuff. Was that perfect? Of course not--you
       | were still in a filter bubble, and what bleeds, leads. But, it
       | surfaced interesting stories, it let you follow news sources you
       | wanted to see, and it did so without the screaming madness of
       | Twitter and Facebook.
        
         | 4926394057 wrote:
         | Ah, it's hard to see those 15 unread items from Aaron Swartz.
         | What an optimistic time that was for the internet.
        
         | rpastuszak wrote:
         | As someone who has used RSS since NetNewsWire looked like
         | this... https://www.coolaboo.com/wp-
         | content/uploads/2019/07/cuneifor... ...get off my lawn, kids.
         | 
         | In retrospect, the end of Google Reader was nothing compared to
         | the neolithic revolution.
        
         | manchmalscott wrote:
         | Akregator still looks exactly like that, I guess if it works,
         | it works.
        
         | Kiro wrote:
         | 1. You're a kid yourself if you were that late.
         | 
         | 2. No-one used the social features.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | I stopped appreciating RSS after "below the fold" content
         | started being hidden by default.
         | 
         | It was when the Internet died. We have been basking in the
         | glory of a dead innovation ever since.
        
           | toastal wrote:
           | I don't mind so long as there is a summary/abstract for me to
           | assess if it's worth my time, and their site is accessible.
           | Press a button from the feed reader and now elinks opens up
           | for me to read it. Some site's this is better. But with
           | malice or carelessness others don't cater to a TUI (no skip
           | link, navigation is duplicated for mobile for no reason,
           | etc.) well or on the GUI they'll pile in targeted
           | ads/trackers (though blocked) but will also hide a bunch of
           | useful stuff carelessly behind JavaScript, like image loading
           | or the entire article (which if your primary site purpose is
           | content, you should be obligated to make sure at least the
           | noscript situation is covered as folks don't want to trust
           | code execution for what is likely a one-off read).
        
           | hedora wrote:
           | There are tools like five filters that follow the links, and
           | download the whole story. O think RSS is unusable without
           | them.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | Which tools do you recommend?
             | 
             | Feedly does not do this (at least, not by default?), and I
             | consider the experience substandard.
        
               | ESMirro wrote:
               | On Apple devices Reeder 5, NetNewsWire and Feedbin all
               | use the Mercury parser API (hosted by Feedbin) to extract
               | the full article text. I believe Fiery Feeds also
               | includes this functionality (with a subscription)
               | although I am uncertain of the process used. Lire is yet
               | another reader that includes this functionality by
               | default.
               | 
               | Of those above I recommend Reeder 5 if you don't care
               | about web accessibility and Feedbin if you do.
        
               | tshell wrote:
               | If you're on a Mac or iOS, NetNewsWire can fetch and
               | extract the whole article for an individual item, or you
               | can set it to automatically do it for an entire feed:
               | https://netnewswire.com/help/mac/5.1/en/reader-view
        
         | incanus77 wrote:
         | Same here -- first piece of Mac software that I ever paid for,
         | in 2002. Still use it.
        
         | zeckalpha wrote:
         | And NNTP before that...
        
           | tracker1 wrote:
           | Still a fan of NNTP... thinking of doing something similar
           | with HTTP and Cloudflare workers (and adjacent service).
           | Durable Objects for incrementing counters per group, and R2
           | for header/body storage. Not inherently distributed to
           | separate servers, but an open enough API that it would be
           | similar and allow for other implementations. Only thinking
           | CF, in that I wouldn't have the issues of trying to self-
           | scale in the same way something that could be simple if it
           | gained wider usage.
        
           | qw wrote:
           | With "nntp//rss" you could get the best of both worlds. It
           | contained both an NNTP server and an RSS aggregator, with a
           | web interface for administration.
           | 
           | It's no longer maintained, but it was a great concept
        
           | jdfellow wrote:
           | Gnus having NNTP and it's "nnrss" module means its my default
           | newsreader.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | The way I mitigated this problem was to periodically check
         | places like Reddit or Slashdot, noting which sources were
         | cropping up for things I found interesting, and then adding
         | those to my feed reader, skipping the middle man.
         | 
         | Once a week or when I ran out of feed I'd go hunting for more.
         | The friends aspect diminished greatly but I had plenty to read.
        
         | webwanderings wrote:
         | Be humble grandpa! There were people who used to use Google
         | Reader without any of its social network shenanigans. And of
         | course, there were people who have been using RSS readers
         | before Google Reader was even born. But, no RSS reader has ever
         | reached the ceiling of common usage, which is not a bad deal.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | I don't think OP was referring to any social features beyond
           | what RSS specified:
           | 
           | > In retrospect, it was the least toxic social network. You
           | added your friends, their recommendations bubbled up in the
           | interface, so you saw cool new stuff.
           | 
           | This is just "subscribe to people's blogs". That's still the
           | ideal social media for me.
        
             | ryanf wrote:
             | No, Google Reader had a social layer where you could add
             | friends, see items that they recommended, and comment on
             | them. It was really great, but it was ruined by the
             | migration to Google+ before Reader was actually killed.
        
               | smeej wrote:
               | Was this the same as Google Buzz?
               | 
               | My friends and I loved Buzz and lamented its loss. We
               | tried Google+, but it couldn't even really do what Buzz
               | could do, and it certainly didn't have any other killer
               | features, so it didn't take.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | In my circles, which admittedly may not be representative,
           | RSS is/was a tool for people whose job it was in part to
           | proactively ferret out a wide range of information and
           | insights from obscure corners of the internet--so
           | journalists, analysts, and the like. Which just doesn't
           | describe a mainstream audience.
           | 
           | While it's satisfying to blame Google, the killing of Reader
           | always seemed like a natural effect of RSS not being popular
           | than its cause. It's not like there aren't other RSS
           | alternatives. And, of course, social media does a pretty good
           | job--for all its faults--of surfacing those various tidbits
           | with or without RSS.
        
             | skybrian wrote:
             | It was successful enough that a much smaller business than
             | Google would have tried to keep it going, probably as a
             | subscription service. But for Google it was a rounding
             | error, and the code base needed a rewrite.
             | 
             | It seems hard to argue that it would have become more
             | successful, given that its successors are pretty good but
             | they're small businesses.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Right. And the problem with rounding error businesses at
               | large companies is that:
               | 
               | 1. They're a distraction and
               | 
               | 2. It's probably very career limiting to work on them.
               | 
               | Someone at IBM told me years ago that if something wasn't
               | going to be a billion dollar business they weren't
               | interested. And Google walked away years ago from
               | organizing the world's knowledge if advertising wasn't
               | attached.
        
               | fanso99 wrote:
               | There is an argument to be made that these... micro
               | services were a part of a bigger offering from Google.
               | Maybe by itself Reader wasn't a billion dollar business,
               | but together with other niche features Reader attracted
               | an influential and wealthy audience.
        
           | drtz wrote:
           | > There were people who used to use Google Reader without any
           | of its social network shenanigans.
           | 
           | I was even blissfully ignorant to the existence of these
           | social features in Google Reader until this moment.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | kcplate wrote:
             | Same. I am glad of that too. I loved it and probably
             | wouldn't have if the social aspect was in your face.
        
         | JKolios wrote:
         | Google killing of Reader was the symbolic point where the
         | business plan of the internet moved from "Let's sell stuff to
         | users!" to "Let's sell users to advertisers!".
        
           | mfer wrote:
           | I'm going to disagree with that.
           | 
           | It was when business plans from moved from letting users
           | control what they consume to being in control of what users
           | consume.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | Gigachad wrote:
             | This is exactly what users want. Tiktok is so successful
             | because you don't have to pick the content you consume. RSS
             | on the other hand is far too manual and too much bad
             | content gets mixed in with the good.
        
             | smeej wrote:
             | Why did they want to do that, if not to be more effective,
             | in the long run, for advertisers?
        
               | mfer wrote:
               | There are a variety of motivations. These include...
               | 
               | The biggest is that they are trying to maximize
               | revenue/profits. In controlling the flow of information
               | to people they are in better control of that. A lot has
               | been studied about this.
               | 
               | I didn't realize there were other motivations until FB
               | started to publish studies they carried out on people.
               | Some of those (which they published awhile ago) were
               | around the manipulation of users emotions and their
               | ability to target voting groups (to increase people going
               | to vote in target groups) around elections.
        
               | hamburglar wrote:
               | Yeah I can think of a few. That sort of influence is one,
               | benefiting advertisers is another, positioning themselves
               | to get a cut of all transactions is another. Is there an
               | alternate universe where in order to get your content in
               | front of users, it has to be AMP and in order to be AMP,
               | it has to meet a new requirement that all payments must
               | be done through a payment framework that lets google
               | control the user experience ("purely for the end users'
               | benefit" of course)? Probably.
        
               | smeej wrote:
               | I hear what you guys are saying, but "maximize
               | revenue/profits" _means_ "benefit advertisers so they
               | come to us instead of anybody else." "Getting a cut of
               | all transactions" _means_ benefitting advertisers who
               | sell anything through the site.
               | 
               | It's all advertising all the time.
        
             | sirmike_ wrote:
             | YOU are 100 percent correct.
             | 
             | Generally speaking when Google prevents and limits what end
             | users can control -- the offending product gets worse and
             | eventually dropped.
        
           | amadeuspagel wrote:
           | Google Reader was a free product, subsidized by google ads.
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | Google Reader was a service that brought in good will,
             | subsidized by people trusting Google to "not be evil" and
             | provide useful services. This subsequently turned into
             | people using Google's money-making products, like ads.
             | 
             | At least to most I've spoken with on the subject (a few
             | dozen, so informal straw poll), killing Google Reader
             | turned people's opinion of Google from scrappy startup to
             | untrustworthy behemoth.
        
               | kcplate wrote:
               | > At least to most I've spoken with on the subject (a few
               | dozen, so informal straw poll), killing Google Reader
               | turned people's opinion of Google from scrappy startup to
               | untrustworthy behemoth.
               | 
               | You can add me to that informal poll. I moved to Feedly,
               | but Google Reader was my go to for a whole lot of years.
               | My opinion of Google changed the day they announced its
               | demise. I am probably an outlier but the _only_ way I
               | want to consume content on the web is via RSS feeds.
               | Allows me to curate what I see and if subscribed sites
               | start delivering me poor content, I drop them from the
               | feed list.
        
               | tomrod wrote:
               | +1
        
             | incanus77 wrote:
             | Right, but it was an early step in Google's now-classic
             | playbook of undercutting existing paid solutions by
             | subsidizing a free, shiny alternative, driving the paid
             | versions out of business, then either turning their product
             | into a surveillance nightmare or shutting it down.
        
             | jdgoesmarching wrote:
             | So is Mail, Maps, Calendar, Drive, Docs, Youtube, etc.
             | 
             | What's your point?
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | college_physics wrote:
           | Indeed, spot on. And given the internet _is_ the computer
           | this is (as good as any) a representation of the fatal
           | bifurcation that has essentially destroyed the potential of
           | digitization for at least a generation (and maybe forever)
        
             | enos_feedler wrote:
             | Agreed. And that while I am not claiming Apple as a savior
             | here or anything, imagine how bad it could be if we didn't
             | have at least 1 company still in the business of selling
             | computers. At least to SOME degree. Things could be a lot
             | worse
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | I don't know, to me it feels like it was 10 years ago.
        
           | b33j0r wrote:
           | Thank you for making my exact comment. I was too stressed out
           | today and you nailed it ;)
        
         | glenstein wrote:
         | The light social layer on top of stories was super interesting.
         | You could comment on articles with your friends. There was a
         | lot of potential there.
        
           | musictubes wrote:
           | Newsblur has this feature although I don't think it's used
           | much.
        
           | snapplebobapple wrote:
           | This is where that gab project from a couple years ago was
           | amazing (although the most generous thing I can say about the
           | user content created by it was that it was not amazing lol).
           | it had an extension you would install and it would overlay a
           | comments section on any webpage on the internet.I would love
           | to see something like that but with properly threaded
           | comments and an easy way to subscribe to specific communities
           | commenting, or ideally, federated but you could choose the
           | communities you wanted to overlay moderation from. even
           | better if it has support for easy account switching so you
           | could bin your comment into the proper group for the level of
           | moderation it would pass.
           | 
           | activity pub almost does this but comment threading has been
           | universally garbage on every instance I have tried (how hard
           | is it to thread stuff like comments on hacker news are
           | threaded????) but the method is wrong in that you scroll
           | activity pub feeds instead of surfing the net and finding the
           | rich and interesting comment sections for what you are
           | seeing.
        
           | alfiedotwtf wrote:
           | This!
           | 
           | Instead, you create a link with a comment in Signal to a
           | group of friends, copy that to a few other Signal groups who
           | are mutually exclusive of those other groups, then paste into
           | a few Discord groups...
           | 
           | Literally a manual social network.
        
             | toastal wrote:
             | If you're wise enough to use Signal, why would you also be
             | using Discord?
        
               | chrisweekly wrote:
               | It's the original FB problem all over again: if that's
               | where all the people are, you don't really have much
               | choice if you want to reach them.
        
           | chpatrick wrote:
           | Much like Reddit, or you know, Hacker News.
        
         | yreg wrote:
         | For me RSS worked very well at a time when mobile data
         | connection/wifi was not ubiquitous yet. For a year or two,
         | every morning when I came to school I went directly to that one
         | place where there was the one Wi-Fi router. I downloaded all
         | the new articles in my NetNewsWire feed and then read them over
         | the day.
         | 
         | The tech is nice, but I have no desire to use it anymore. I no
         | longer follow specific blogs. Now I just open hacker news or
         | reddit any time I want to read something.
        
         | rsynnott wrote:
         | The bit I find fascinating about Reader, and its impact (I'm
         | convinced that its death resulted in an immediate strong surge
         | towards social media centralisation), is that it was entirely
         | contingent; it didn't have to happen. There are many parallel
         | universes where Google (a) didn't make an rss reader so
         | dominant that it became The RSS Reader and then (b) kill it. In
         | a healthier market with a bunch of widely used readers, things
         | would have been very different.
         | 
         | (Reader's impact was particularly dramatic because a lot of
         | ostensibly separate products like NNW started using it as a
         | backend...)
         | 
         | And, if, as seems at least plausible, over the next year or so
         | Twitter crumbles and decentralised social media (whether in the
         | form of Mastodon et al, blogs or something else) comes back,
         | again, totally contingent! An idiot buying Twitter and breaking
         | it wasn't some sort of historical inevitability, just a weird
         | high-impact thing that happened.
        
           | the_duke wrote:
           | It think you got things very mixed up here.
           | 
           | Google Reader was shut down in 2013.
           | 
           | At that time Facebook was THE hugely dominant social network,
           | with Twitter solidly established, and Instagram rapidly
           | becoming popular.
           | 
           | Google Reader was well past it's prime, most "regular" users
           | had already moved to those platform, outside of the more
           | hardcore Tech circles.
           | 
           | Google Plus was also really struggling,so they probably
           | wanted to push the user base on to their "real" social
           | network.
        
             | rsynnott wrote:
             | Yeah, the RSS ecosystem was never the leading 'social
             | network' by number of users, but it used to be systemically
             | important, in a way that it isn't today. Keeping track of
             | what was happening in many fields (particularly tech, but
             | also others) used to be primarily via RSS, now Twitter (and
             | in some cases moving to Mastodon, now).
        
           | wink wrote:
           | The most fascinating bit for me is that people actually used
           | any of the social features of Google Reader. I just read my
           | feeds and interacted with nobody, and that wasn't too
           | uncommon in my circles.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | I never used Reader but I did use another one that also
           | folded, a year or two before Reader went away. Then it got
           | bought and came back, changed, and that stutter interrupted
           | my process and I never really recovered. I set up Feedly and
           | then don't use it.
           | 
           | I think I'm from the generation(s) that expect to spend a lot
           | of time in a browser window instead of hopping between
           | applications triggered by notifications. So the moment I put
           | something into an app, if it's not situation dependent like
           | Apple Fitness, or team chat for work, it's just too much
           | friction to make it a habit.
        
       | Maxburn wrote:
       | Podcasts are all RSS too, lots of hidden use of RSS out there.
       | 
       | https://podcastindex.org/
        
         | acidburnNSA wrote:
         | I got a Firefox extension that looks for rss in a page and
         | gives you a little icon in the titlebar. Some webmasters don't
         | even bother to put the link in their page visibly.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _I got a Firefox extension that looks for rss in a page and
           | gives you a little icon in the titlebar._
           | 
           | This used to be the default condition for all web browsers.
           | Even Safari did it.
           | 
           | I forget which browser dropped that feature first. My guess
           | is that it was Google Chrome, and everyone else just did the
           | same thing because following is easier than leading.
        
           | Maxburn wrote:
           | Nice, I wonder why they wouldn't surface that? Speculating
           | they got it included in their CMS and decided they didn't
           | want it.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | Back in the day all major browser provided their own "feed
             | available" icon so including an extra icon on your site was
             | pointless. The browser's icon was consistent across sites
             | instead of the user needing to look around for a feed link
             | on your site.
             | 
             | Of course now most popular browsers don't show this icon so
             | it is more important to advertise it yourself. (Although
             | there are extensions to bring this icon back)
        
             | dageshi wrote:
             | It's on by default in wordpress I think, but most site
             | builders either don't know or have forgotten, most probably
             | have no clue it's running.
        
             | acidburnNSA wrote:
             | I'm sure you're right
        
       | pipeline_peak wrote:
       | Pretty sure if there was ever "the year of the RSS reader" it was
       | somewhere between 2005 to 2013.
       | 
       | RSS is too lean, it's a format, the majority of people don't know
       | what it is or how to use it. A lot of sites don't even support
       | RSS anymore. Like IRC, its userbase is tech people. Sorry guys,
       | you don't make up the rest of the world...
       | 
       | It's an outdated concept, we all know people don't surf the web
       | anymore. And the larger it will get, the less likely people will.
       | Have you tried using RSS, just measly collecting your favorite
       | sites with the off chance that they support it? It's a mess and
       | no surprise it died as everyone flocked to Facebook, Twitter,
       | etc.
       | 
       | People need some sort of platform and that's why ActivityPub /
       | Fediverse is a lot more promising. Social networks aren't the
       | problem, just the one's we've been using.
        
       | college_physics wrote:
       | If technology was at the service of the individual rather than
       | the other way aroud, RSS would have been a centerpiece of our
       | information universe, with something like ActivityPub the path to
       | enhance information exchange in a bidirectional way when that is
       | applicable...
        
       | pletnes wrote:
       | I'd just like to give miniflux a mention. Web-based, self-hosted
       | or SaaS. Available and synced across devices, no fluff, great UX
       | / UI in my book. Not as snappy as some desktop keyboard driven
       | ones, but I love it.
        
       | pmarreck wrote:
       | if we can figure out how the people putting out RSS feeds can
       | make money, then yes, this could be the year of RSS again.
       | 
       | It's time to switch business models back to something sustainable
       | and not something that incentivizes addicting you
        
       | nomdep wrote:
       | Journalism is a curious profession: you are taught how to write,
       | but your knowledge of any other field is high school level at
       | best, and that is what you write.
       | 
       | I think it should be a master degree, not an independent career
       | anymore.
        
         | svnt wrote:
         | I agree with this wholeheartedly: if someone "wants to be a
         | writer" the best thing they can do is read and experience life
         | until they understand something so well they don't want to do
         | it anymore.
         | 
         | Then maybe they can write about it.
         | 
         | What we have instead is people selected for syntax, network,
         | and ego, vomiting as loudly and often as possible.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Journalism is a curious profession: you are taught how to
         | write, but your knowledge of any other field is high school
         | level at best, and that is what you write._
         | 
         | You demonstrate a high school-level knowledge of journalism.
         | 
         | What you describe are "generalist" reporters. They are
         | necessary, and ubiquitous. But there are also very many
         | specialist reporters, who have specific knowledge of the areas
         | in which they write. The guy who reports at the Pentagon is not
         | the same person who writes car crash stories.
         | 
         | You also presume that once someone gets a journalism degree,
         | that's all the education they have or ever will have. Many
         | (most?) journalists have multiple degrees. They also engage in
         | continuing university-level education, either on their own, or
         | paid for by their employer.
         | 
         | Also, experience is a great teacher. Do you today know only
         | exactly the same about of computer skills you had when you
         | graduated from high school 20 years ago? No. Just like a
         | journalist learns over time from experience and furthering his
         | education.
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | Some intros on how to build your own RSS feed (structure of the
       | XML file):
       | 
       | https://www.xul.fr/en-xml-rss.html
       | 
       | https://www.w3schools.com/xml/xml_rss.asp
       | 
       | However, I notice that JSON feeds are also an option and might be
       | preferable for various reasons (i.e. Python's json module makes
       | parsing easy, etc.):
       | 
       | https://www.jsonfeed.org/version/1.1/
       | 
       | As far as Twitter, I'm not sure it was ever that great of an
       | information source. Musk has at least said they're trying to
       | improve Twitter search, but who knows what it will look like.
       | It's still pretty weak at present.
       | 
       | Why corporate media journalists and politicians flocked to
       | Twitter in the past is unclear, unless that it was that Twitter's
       | structure was deliberately designed for propaganda distribution.
       | The low character count and leader-follower structure helps with
       | the standard propaganda routine, which typically involves
       | reducing complex arguments and ideas to the point that a small
       | child could understand them, and then repeating that dumbed-down
       | argument over and over while browbeating anyone who raises
       | objections.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I'd recommend just using Atom. It is as widely supported as RSS
         | but far better specified so your readers will have a consistent
         | result.
         | 
         | JSON Feed is fine but provides very little benefit and isn't as
         | widely supported. Having multiple feed links for the same
         | content will give some users analysis paralysis. (What we
         | really need is an update to the auto-discovery spec that says
         | "these two feeds have the exact same content, if you support
         | both formats only show your preferred format to the user")
         | 
         | I wrote up a guide for my recommended RSS Best Practices which
         | while not aimed at how to create your own feed contains enough
         | information to do that.
         | 
         | https://kevincox.ca/2022/05/06/rss-feed-best-practices/
        
           | ihuman wrote:
           | JSON Feed is in a catch-22. Not many websites use it (and
           | none can use it exclusively) because not as many clients
           | support it. Few clients support it because not many websites
           | use it. While an auto-discovery spec would be great, having
           | multiple feeds is currently the only way to add JSON Feed and
           | break the cycle.
           | 
           | > What we really need is an update to the auto-discovery spec
           | that says "these two feeds have the exact same content, if
           | you support both formats only show your preferred format to
           | the user"
           | 
           | You could do that right now by having 1 URL that changes what
           | type it returns based on the request's "Accept" type.
           | However, I don't know if any websites/clients actually do
           | that, or if it would break older clients.
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | Yeah, it is a catch-22, but there is little reason to break
             | it IMHO since it doesn't bring much extra to the table. My
             | feed reader does support it but I would still recommend
             | Atom. It is more mature, has more features and extensions
             | and is supported everywhere.
             | 
             | The main thing JSON Feed seems to have going for it is that
             | it isn't XML which honestly isn't a very compelling
             | argument.
             | 
             | The accept type is a good idea. Unfortunately few static
             | site hosts (which is common for RSS feeds) support this.
             | And many CDNs don't either. It also doesn't play the best
             | with HTTP caching.
        
         | notpushkin wrote:
         | Ideally you'll want to make both. RSS is most widely supported,
         | while JSON Feed is (arguably) easier to parse.
        
       | voisin wrote:
       | I would like an RSS Reader that I pay for once rather than
       | subscribe to, and which allows me to filter out keywords of my
       | choosing. That's it. I hate that for this feature with Feedly I
       | would have to pay monthly.
        
       | BruceEel wrote:
       | Cool, what does your list of favorite feeds look like? Please
       | share.
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | https://hackaday.com/blog/feed/
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/rss
         | 
         | https://api.quantamagazine.org/feed/
         | 
         | https://www.wowhead.com/news/rss/wotlk-classic
         | 
         | https://alerts.weather.gov/ (chose your region)
         | 
         | https://www.pine64.org/feed/
         | 
         | https://www.factorio.com/blog/rss
        
           | BruceEel wrote:
           | Awesome, thx!
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I have built my list up over time. Generally I will discover
         | new stuff from hacker news or other aggregators (which I browse
         | once I am caught up on my feeds). I add things to my list very
         | often, but also am quick to unsubscribe if I'm not enjoying the
         | content.
         | 
         | The types of content I tend to follow are:
         | 
         | - Videos. YouTube, Nebula, PeerTube and a few other sources.
         | 
         | - Blogs. These are mostly personal blogs that I have found
         | interesting articles on. A few company blogs too.
         | 
         | - Social media searches. This is more for productivity but I
         | follow a bunch of searches across various social media sites to
         | stay up to date on specific topics.
         | 
         | - Comics
         | 
         | - Software releases.
         | 
         | I have very few high-volume sources. I much prefer quality
         | content from hundreds of sources instead of frequent content
         | from a few big sources like news sites.
         | 
         | I realize I didn't answer your question but that is sort of
         | intended. Each person's favourite feeds will be different and
         | depend on your interests. The best way to get stared is just to
         | start subscribing to the things that you are enjoying today.
         | Then over time you will build up a list of things that interest
         | you. Especially when getting started it makes sense to over-
         | subscribe, you can always prune down if you had a "false
         | positive".
        
           | lonk11 wrote:
           | The process you are describing can be automated a bit.
           | 
           | Imagine your feed reader automatically subscribes you to
           | feeds of articles you liked (star/thumbs up/favorite). Let's
           | say you start subscribed to an HN feed of items that got more
           | than 100 upvotes:
           | https://hnrss.org/newest?points=100&count=100 Then you find
           | the OP link and like it in your feed reader:
           | https://www.niemanlab.org/2022/12/this-is-the-year-of-the-
           | rs... Your reader automatically subscribes you to the source
           | feed of this article:
           | https://feeds.feedburner.com/NiemanJournalismLab
           | 
           | You like more content => you get subscribed to more feeds
           | automatically.
           | 
           | Your feed reader can also take care of unsubscribing you from
           | feeds that are posting too often or are not posting
           | interesting to you content. If you don't like the content of
           | a feed for awhile then your connection to that feed becomes
           | weaker and the content from that feed is ranked less
           | prominently. The content from feeds with a high signal-to-
           | noise ratio (ie, how often you like content from that feed)
           | is ranked higher for you.
           | 
           | This is how my little project https://linklonk.com works. If
           | you'd like to give it a try: "thumb up" a few items from the
           | above HN feed: https://linklonk.com/feed?url=https:%2F%2Fhnrs
           | s.org%2Fnewest... and then check your recommendations on the
           | home page.
           | 
           | Through this mechanism I am currently subscribed to 201 RSS
           | feeds and I know that I won't miss content from high "signal-
           | to-noise ratio" feeds. Here is a sample of my top feeds:
           | 
           | https://blog.piekniewski.info/feed/
           | https://bam.kalzumeus.com/archive/rss/
           | https://karpathy.github.io/feed.xml
           | https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/feed/
           | https://www.inference.vc/rss/ https://openai.com/blog/rss/
           | https://stratechery.com/feed/
           | https://medium.com/feed/@yonatanzunger
           | https://rachelbythebay.com/w/atom.xml
           | https://openai.com/blog/rss/
           | https://randomascii.wordpress.com/feed/
           | https://computer.rip/rss.xml https://timharford.com/feed/
           | https://idlewords.com/index.xml https://www.youtube.com/feeds
           | /videos.xml?channel_id=UC9-y-6c... - Computerphile videos
           | https://www.granolashotgun.com/granolashotguncom?format=rss
           | https://daringfireball.net/feeds/main
        
           | BruceEel wrote:
           | Ah, your approach makes a lot of sense. Me, I've put together
           | a number of Twitter lists over the years, to serve as faux-
           | newsfeeds. Well, it doesn't work very well and right now it
           | leads more often to aggravation than discovery. So, here come
           | 2023 and RSS. Thanks for the hints!
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | Note that you can use third-party services to create feeds
             | for Twitter users. (example https://nitter.net/) This can
             | provide a good way to get some content into your reader,
             | then you can add/remove feeds based on how you are enjoying
             | them.
        
         | superkuh wrote:
         | Here are the ~thousand feeds I subscribe to formatted in HTML
         | with links to the site and the RSS feed:
         | http://superkuh.com/feeds9.html
         | 
         | Here are the ~thousand feeds I subscribe to formatted in opml
         | for direct import into feed readers:
         | http://superkuh.com/2022-11-04-feedlist.opml
        
           | BruceEel wrote:
           | Ah, I didn't know about OPML. I like that it's readable and
           | editable so you can make adjustments before importing.
           | Thanks!
        
       | toastal wrote:
       | Coincidentally, I got Newsboat+Podboat mostly set up today on
       | NixOS to disconnect from the feed cycle that wants me to
       | continually engage. The sad fact was learning after not having
       | subbed to anything after two years to find a lot of news
       | channels, like AP and Reuters, have stopped publishing feeds.
        
       | sergioreus wrote:
       | RSS Feeds are an easy way to stay up to date with your favorite
       | websites, such as blogs or online magazines. If a site offers an
       | RSS feed, you get notified whenever a post goes up, and then you
       | can read a summary or the whole post.<a
       | href="http://hundredyearscalender.com/>100 years calander</a>
        
       | Group_B wrote:
       | Any recommendations for an RSS reader?
        
         | stinkytaco wrote:
         | I use Newsblur, mostly. It feels a bit dated at times, but does
         | what I want it to do and has an email address that you can send
         | newsletters to to read like feeds. I've been meaning to switch
         | over to miniflux for a while, but can never really get up the
         | momentum. It seems nice.
        
         | ihuman wrote:
         | I know NetNewsWire and NewsBlur have already been mentioned,
         | but I use both of them together. I use NewsBlur on Windows, and
         | NetNewsWire with my NewsBlur account on Mac/iOS. NetNewsWire
         | also supports iCloud, Feedbin, Feedly, and other services (and
         | locally without syncing).
        
         | leokennis wrote:
         | https://feedbin.com/ for a reader designed with admirable
         | restraint, resulting in a lack of feature creep.
        
         | Fileformat wrote:
         | NewsBlur - I'm on a paid plan since I'm a packrat with almost
         | 700 feeds. It is a pretty busy interface but has tons of
         | functionality. Their mobile app is also pretty good.
         | 
         | https://newsblur.com/
        
           | nortonham wrote:
           | what do you do with 700 news feeds?!
        
         | kmfrk wrote:
         | I moved all my stuff to Thunderbird a while ago, and unless you
         | have more specific demands, having a basic self-run RSS reader
         | beats just about all fancy hosted solutions out there. Old-
         | school e-mail works well a lot of the time too.
        
         | hairofadog wrote:
         | On the Apple ecosystem, Reeder remains my favorite:
         | https://reederapp.com
         | 
         | It's got a simple and clean user interface, and it stores the
         | feed in iCloud, so no need for a third-party server
         | application.
        
         | AwaAwa wrote:
         | Feedbro extension on Firefox
        
         | lexoj wrote:
         | I prefer a daily digest so I use this tool which I built, easy
         | to setup:
         | 
         | https://github.com/piqoni/matcha
         | 
         | It generates markdown locally but Obsidian is also on my phone
         | so its also mobile.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I use an RSS-to-email service to email them to me. Then most
         | feeds get sorted into folders for reading later. A few got to
         | my inbox for more urgent response.
         | 
         | I currently use an RSS-to-email service that I operate but I
         | used other services for almost a decade before that. There are
         | a handful available ad supported and paid or you can self-host.
        
         | stevekemp wrote:
         | I personally prefer to read my feeds via my email client, and
         | hacked up an RSS to email script:
         | 
         | https://github.com/skx/rss2email/
         | 
         | Having the feeds in your mail client makes sorting, and
         | searching trivial. Plus you get the content archived for future
         | reference.
        
         | MintPaw wrote:
         | I've heard nothing but bad things, and had nothing but good
         | experiences with Thunderbird.
        
         | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
         | I use @rss2tg_bot that channels RSSes to a telegram chat.
        
         | semasad wrote:
         | Reader: https://readwise.io/read
        
         | strunz wrote:
         | I use FreshRSS and host my own after Google Reader died -
         | https://freshrss.org/
        
         | ink_13 wrote:
         | I like The Old Reader: https://theoldreader.com/
         | 
         | It's largely a reimplementation of the Google Reader
         | experience.
        
           | jrochkind1 wrote:
           | I can't find any pricing info, what's the deal?
        
             | darreninthenet wrote:
             | I use the free version and for my needs it's fine
             | (basically 100 feed limit and after a while old posts drop
             | off the feed, I'm not sure how long).
             | 
             | For 25 dollars a year you get 500 feeds and one year
             | retention (up to 1000 posts per feed) and you can pay more
             | for a larger number of feeds.
        
         | nitin-pai wrote:
         | I've been using miniflux, and it's quite cool. David Winer's
         | Feedland is nifty too.
        
         | tommoor wrote:
         | NetNewsWire if you're on macOS/iPhone
        
           | onnnon wrote:
           | I use this as well, source on GitHub:
           | 
           | https://github.com/Ranchero-Software/NetNewsWire
        
         | psteitz wrote:
         | I use Feedly, which is more a scraper, but can be pointed at
         | RSS sources.
        
           | berniedurfee wrote:
           | I use Feedly for RSS exclusively. Works great, simple and
           | clean.
        
         | musictubes wrote:
         | I like Newsblur on the web. Also use Unread on iOS/iPadOS with
         | Newsblur as the aggregator.
        
         | Neurogodzilla wrote:
         | Inoreader
        
         | nortonham wrote:
         | if you like the cli on linux/unix then newsboat is great
        
         | saturn_vk wrote:
         | I've been using my aggregator since google reader died:
         | https://github.com/urandom/readeef
        
         | timetraveller26 wrote:
         | newsboat if you want something for the CLI
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | > RSS readers may need their own ecology of analytics > in order
       | to be commercially desirable and worthy of > tech investment.
       | 
       | Those sound like the criteria of it's going to be the year of
       | large investments going down the drain amidst a lot of hype.
       | 
       | ----
       | 
       | Anyway,
       | 
       | Twitter has 396.5 Million users (Monthly Active Users):
       | https://backlinko.com/twitter-users#twitter-users
       | 
       | 4.3 Billion people use email: https://wpdevshed.com/email-usage-
       | statistics/
       | 
       | so 9 times as many. Also, most users of Twitter probably don't
       | even notice the latest Musk controversies, since those things
       | aren't the tweets they follow. So, it seems to me like the author
       | is mostly looking just past her own nose.
        
       | moolcool wrote:
       | This is the year of the linux desktop
        
       | luoc wrote:
       | But how do I get that all caps scifi font to my reader? It's just
       | not the same...
        
       | LightG wrote:
       | Two RSS threads on HN frontpage today? Great! RSS never went away
       | but I hope it becommes much more prominent again. The last lost
       | decade of walled-garden social has been a relative disaster.
        
       | semasad wrote:
       | The main problem I found with RSS in these days is the lack of
       | access to they. I want access the RSS of NYT, where I find it? I
       | want X blog, where? After the web migrated from RSS to paywalls,
       | I have no option to just choice some news webs/blogs and focus on
       | that.
        
         | FrontAid wrote:
         | > I want access the RSS of NYT, where I find it?
         | 
         | https://www.nytimes.com/rss
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | If you paste https://www.nytimes.com/ into your feed reader it
         | will likely discover
         | https://rss.nytimes.com/services/xml/rss/nyt/HomePage.xml
         | automatically. This tends to work very well for most blogs and
         | many sites. I often just assume that there is a feed available
         | and past article URLs into my feed reader, most of the time the
         | feed is automatically discovered.
         | 
         | Back in the day browsers had icons that would light up when a
         | feed was available, however all of the most popular browsers
         | have removed this feature. You can add it back with an
         | extension easily if you are so inclined.
        
           | semasad wrote:
           | Sure, NYT is an easy one, but if you try some more
           | "expensive" (they really do not enjoy your free read) like
           | Bloomberg the your RSS feed will keep small.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ro-ka wrote:
         | With Feedbin (which I use, guess others work similar), pasting
         | the website URL is enough. It'll scan for feeds and that's it.
        
         | charles_f wrote:
         | I agree with you, sites tend to hide the link nowadays, even
         | when it's there, and that's frustrating.
         | 
         | Most modern client manage to discover them anyhow though
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | Generally they have a RSS icon along side the Twitter,
         | Facebook, etc icons. It looks like a wi-fi symbol. They're also
         | often linked in the footer.
        
       | riwsky wrote:
       | What a coincidence--this is also the year of the Linux desktop!
        
         | yreg wrote:
         | And that desktop is Steam Deck.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | <looks at his 200-odd feeds in Reeder>
       | 
       | Really? I must be a trendsetter then.
       | 
       | The article gets some things right, but RSS as a private,
       | protected medium just never took off, and I don't think it ever
       | will--but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
        
       | firefoxd wrote:
       | 2022 made me rethink my stance. My goal used to be to create as
       | much as possible in the best quality I could muster. Give it all
       | and make it available for free for all on the internet.
       | 
       | Now that everything you write is used to train an AI that will be
       | used to generate the content, I don't feel the need to
       | contribute. Plus they'll use this content for their own
       | commercial benefit. I don't feel the same way anymore about the
       | internet.
        
       | Mark33 wrote:
       | The panic about right wing intrusion of social media ownership
       | keeps getting to new highs, now even predicts a come back of RSS
       | because woke people don't want to be seen using Twitter any
       | more... #fail #them
        
       | longnguyen wrote:
       | I think the reason RSS is not appealing to content creators is
       | because authors don't "own" the email list. And it's quite
       | difficult to have paid content delivered via RSS (still pretty
       | much open/sharable)
       | 
       | But from reader perspective, RSS is awesome. You don't have to
       | deal with all the email subscriptions double opt-in etc. The
       | ability to unsubscribe/resubscribe in one click is fantastic. And
       | you have number of good RSS readers to fit your need.
       | 
       | Pro tip: you can add "/feed" to any Substack publication to
       | subscribe to its RSS feed
       | 
       | To my surprised, RSS is still my most requested feature for my
       | little SaaS[0]
       | 
       | I wrote a short blog post on how to read RSS on Kindle here[1]
       | 
       | [0]: https://ktool.io
       | 
       | [1]: https://ktool.io/blog/read-rss-on-kindle
        
         | marcosdumay wrote:
         | > authors don't "own" the email list
         | 
         | Well, what does this gain them? People still can count how many
         | readers they have, and still have a dedicated readership (and
         | no antagonistic middleman filtering them). What difference does
         | the list of those people make?
        
           | longnguyen wrote:
           | Segmentation. You can send offer to a segment of your
           | audience. I don't think you can do that with RSS unless you
           | have a sophisticated setup where each reader has a slightly
           | different feed url.
        
         | AJ007 wrote:
         | Email isn't ideal for content creators either. It costs money
         | to deliver the content and delivery is not guaranteed. If has
         | the knowledge and resources, or they have a heavily engaged
         | audience, great, but that's not a pretty small group.
         | 
         | Add in the ever growing panopticon of privacy legislation (yes,
         | that's an oxymoron) and doing anything with email has become
         | onerous to sole and/or non-commercial operators (because email
         | qualifies as PII.)
         | 
         | That said, email and RSS are fantastic. They work. For the most
         | part you aren't paying a tax to the mega-platforms to reach
         | your audience. Both should be supported and their use
         | encouraged.
        
           | longnguyen wrote:
           | Hard to say. It's definitely more expensive to send emails,
           | yes. But the upside is well worth it IMO.
           | 
           | For example, some services allow you to send content at a
           | specific time based on audience's timezone. This increases
           | open rate.
           | 
           | Or you can choose to resend the same email to audience who
           | haven't opened the first time.
           | 
           | This could boost sales.
           | 
           | I'm not sure RSS can achieve that (there might be solution I
           | don't know about)
        
             | dorgo wrote:
             | >Or you can choose to resend the same email to audience who
             | haven't opened the first time.
             | 
             | I know there used to be tricks to find out whether an email
             | was opened. But my impression was that Gmail and others
             | prevent this nowdays?
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | On the other hand, users who prefer RSS can consume emails
             | in much the same fashion, by auto-filtering into separate
             | folders, or by using one of the existing email-to-RSS
             | tools. For users, RSS and email are both fine in the sense
             | that users can always convert one into the other, depending
             | on their preferences.
        
             | gnicholas wrote:
             | I was recently sent a message that I was going to be
             | unsubscribed from a list because they thought I hadn't
             | opened my emails. I did read the emails but just don't
             | allow tracking pixels.
             | 
             | At first I thought it was nice of them to unsubscribe me,
             | but then I realized that they are probably doing it because
             | keeping me on their list makes their stats worse since I
             | don't allow them to track me.
        
         | georgehotelling wrote:
         | > I think the reason RSS is not appealing to content creators
         | is because authors don't "own" the email list. And it's quite
         | difficult to have paid content delivered via RSS (still pretty
         | much open/sharable)
         | 
         | I think ActivityPub is interesting as an RSS replacement for
         | these reasons. The content is pushed out to an address, so you
         | get much better insights into who your audience is.
         | 
         | Right now Mastodon is the the biggest ActivityPub software[1]
         | so it's encouraging people to post microbloggy content, but
         | that could easily be the inroad to a more RSS-like reader.
         | WordPress's ActivityPub plugin allows people to syndicate their
         | blogs directly to the Fediverse, and other longform platforms
         | can follow suit.
         | 
         | 1: https://fediverse.observer/stats
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | charles_f wrote:
         | > And it's quite difficult to have paid content delivered via
         | RSS (still pretty much open/sharable)
         | 
         | Excerpt that you can then read fully on the website after
         | authentication?
        
           | longnguyen wrote:
           | Not the best UX for readers IMO. That defeats the purpose of
           | a RSS "reader".
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _Not the best UX for readers IMO. That defeats the purpose
             | of a RSS "reader"._
             | 
             | Works fine with the New York Times.
             | 
             | The Times RSS feed includes a headline and a summary. If
             | I'm interested in the article, I press F19 and it opens in
             | my browser.
             | 
             | Since I'm a subscriber, I'm logged in already, and it just
             | appears.
             | 
             | Pressing one button doesn't seem like much of a burden.
        
             | vel0city wrote:
             | I still see a lot of value of having a tool that aggregates
             | new items and snippets from all the content creators I
             | enjoy, even if it's only previews/snippets in the tool. It
             | shows me there's new content and if it's content I might be
             | interested in.
             | 
             | Also, it seems to me one could provide authentication
             | tokens I'm the request for the feed. I don't see why one
             | couldn't have a complete stream for subscribers and a
             | minimal stream for previews for the unauthenticated
             | requests.
        
         | hedora wrote:
         | Paid content with RSS has been solved for a long, long time. It
         | is how paid subscriber feeds for podcasts work.
        
           | svnt wrote:
           | I'm not familiar with this -- how is it solved?
        
             | hutattedonmyarm wrote:
             | Some provide a unique feed with an unguessable URL (very
             | convenient, but easily shared).
             | 
             | Some require auth with Http BasicAuth (I think that's
             | mostly podcast and I don't think it's used very much)
             | 
             | Some show a preview snippet in the feed and you can view
             | the whole article/thing after opening the link and
             | authenticating
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | > Pro tip: you can add "/feed" to any Substack publication to
         | subscribe to its RSS feed
         | 
         | For most readers you can just paste the main URL or the URL of
         | any article and it will autodiscover tehe feed without any URL
         | futzing required.
        
           | longnguyen wrote:
           | Nice. I didn't know. I thought my discovery was cool xD
        
             | kevincox wrote:
             | Yeah, auto-discovery has fallen into the realm of obscure
             | once browsers removed their RSS icons. I would recommend
             | grabbing an extension that will add it back for you. Then
             | you can see if a site has a feed just by glancing at your
             | URL bar.
             | 
             | A few sites don't support it but most with feeds do.
             | Including YouTube channel pages (but not videos) Wordpress,
             | Tumblr, Blogger and more.
        
       | Avamander wrote:
       | Are people still working on improving the standards behind
       | RSS/Atom? Or did that fizzle out with the rise of social media?
       | 
       | For example one thing I've wondered about are signed feed
       | entries. At some point I'd like to be more certain about the
       | author of the media I'm reading, while also being able to prove
       | I've not modified anything. I guess I'm kind-of describing Signed
       | Exchanges but less restrictive, maybe it could be done in
       | conjunction with GPG?
        
       | AstixAndBelix wrote:
       | Newsletters and RSS feeds are not the same thing. If I send a
       | newsletter to a list of subscribers then, as long as their email
       | server receives the email, they can retrieve it and read it
       | whenever they want. But most importantly, if I don't set up an
       | archive of all the newsletters, then only the people who
       | subscribed will ever be able to read it.
       | 
       | On the other hand it's impossible to achieve the same level of
       | one-timeness with RSS. You either publish the feed for a limited
       | amount of time (and the subscribers have to get lucky and
       | synchronize their feeds during this time window), or you publish
       | the feed indefinitely (which maybe you wouldn't want to do)
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | This is a very niche difference. In general once you send
         | something "to the public" you can't expect that it stays
         | private. So if you need to keep items on your feed for a few
         | weeks after publishing it will have a near-zero difference to
         | the availability of that piece and be picked up by almost all
         | subscribers.
        
         | charles_f wrote:
         | > it's impossible to achieve the same level of one-timeness
         | with RSS.
         | 
         | No it's not (not that I can really think of why you'd want
         | that). Generate user-bound rss feed urls with GUIDs or a signed
         | "start date" that provides only entries since that date. That
         | can also allow you to track how many times that url gets
         | retrieved and eventually block it if it's too many.
         | 
         | Or have the rss reader only send an excerpt and have people
         | auth before they access the content on your website.
         | 
         | >most importantly, if I don't set up an archive of all the
         | newsletters, then only the people who subscribed will ever be
         | able to read it.
         | 
         | On the other end once the email left your box, you don't
         | control it anymore, and I can give you a well hidden hack that
         | allows someone not subscribed to read it if they know someone
         | subscribed.
        
       | MobileVet wrote:
       | The first thing we did when we entered mobile in 2004 was build
       | an RSS reader for 'dumb' phones. It was the perfect way to bring
       | information to very limited phones. All the extra stuff was
       | stripped away, just the content remained. The phone could handle
       | it in a way that the WAP browsers would fail.
       | 
       | It is hard to see the value, beyond advertising / affiliate
       | sales, to just about anything that has been added to the modern
       | web experience since that time. I still use 'reader mode' on
       | Safari to bring it back to the basics.
        
       | olivermarks wrote:
       | I alway liked RSS readers and look forward to a renaissance, but
       | the idea Twitter no longer has utility is absurd.
        
       | uses wrote:
       | I was just thinking about how much world-class content is
       | available between podcasts and email newsletters, and it's all
       | free. Whereas if you wanted to say, read an article on the web
       | from the same sources, you're looking at a huge paywall. The
       | "podcast app" market is heavily saturated with many great
       | competitors. Yet the "newsletter reader app" just...doesn't
       | exist? I'm stuck using iOS Mail with its lack of reading options,
       | no saving my place or otherwise bookmarking. I just can't believe
       | nobody's made something to fill in this need?
        
       | okaleniuk wrote:
       | Is managing email really an unsolved problem? I mean, every email
       | client has already way too many "organizing thingies": folders,
       | filters, bookmarks, categories, labels, stars, flags, and
       | archives. What value RSS brings alone except from being different
       | and therefore having its separate tab in a client?
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | No, I don't think there is much fundamental difference. Some
         | RSS readers support inbound emails as a feed source and I get
         | my RSS feeds delivered via email. I think the main reason
         | newsletters are "winning" over RSS right now is that everyone
         | has an email address but not everyone has a feed reader
         | configured. It provides an easy onboarding where you can start
         | getting it in your inbox available on all of your devices and
         | once that becomes annoying you can easily set up filters to
         | organize.
        
         | RavingGoat wrote:
         | I thought email was dead. I treat email like I treat voice
         | messages, they are just out there waiting to be deleted without
         | ever being read/listened to. Do people actually use email still
         | outside of a work situation?
        
           | Hackbraten wrote:
           | A federated near-instant messenger, not being controlled by a
           | single corporate entity, designed on top of a well-defined
           | Internet standard, with both commercial and open-source
           | clients existing for every platform?
        
       | kkfx wrote:
       | The year of RSS reader will be when users decide to be users
       | again instead of lusers (from Simon's Chronicles CL definition),
       | witch unfortunately it's not something really in agenda...
        
       | sudo_navendu wrote:
       | I love using RSS to subscribe to blogs. Many of my favorite
       | personal developer blogs have RSS feeds, and I have them on my
       | blog. I'm currently using Readwise to get all my feeds in one
       | place. This filters out a lot of noise prevalent in social media
       | like Twitter.
        
       | miiiiiike wrote:
       | The "Year of RSS" people have been sounding like the "Year of
       | Linux Desktop" people for a while now. It's not coming back. It
       | just isn't.
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | It only has a shot of coming back if enough people decide that
         | Google searches are pointless. We might be getting there,
         | actually. I'm not optimistic, but the idea that Google search
         | results suck seems to be more mainstream in the last year
         | outside of the HN crowd.
         | 
         | Oh, I say this because Google and other search engines that
         | derive from it are unlikely to yield results that are worth
         | reading or subscribing to. If this were the Google of 2006, RSS
         | _might_ have been something they 'd bake into their results.
         | They'd never allow that today. It's all about serving ads on
         | GPT generated bloogs now.
        
         | contravariant wrote:
         | I'm not sure it ever left. There are still RSS feeds around,
         | though it would be better if their use was more widespread.
        
       | asicsp wrote:
       | Seems like RSS comeback gets discussed often:
       | https://hn.algolia.com/?q=RSS
        
       | olol wrote:
       | "just because of Elon Musk mucking up Twitter"
       | 
       | i get that the tv says we're supposed to hate him... but is
       | anyone ever going to explain why? because he's racist? bc the tv
       | said so? bc he doesn't support the ghost of kyiv? lol
        
         | parrellel wrote:
         | All politics aside, he's showing himself to be incompetent in
         | really surprising ways.
         | 
         | This whole time he's been trading on his personal brand of
         | futurism and technical acumen, and this Twitter business lets
         | everyone see behind the curtain, and it's really easy to be
         | angry when someone is shown to be such a hollow fraud.
         | 
         | No more benefit of the doubt for him.
        
       | hed wrote:
       | I tried to set this up earlier this year, but what I realized I
       | really wanted was RSS + change detection for some discussion
       | forums and other sites that didn't offer RSS.
       | 
       | That companies like feedly didn't seem to offer this
       | functionality but were trying to emphasize social networking and
       | tagging my articles (for who?) made it easy to walk away after
       | the trial.
        
         | thirdplace_ wrote:
         | For sites that don't offer feeds you may want to check out rss-
         | bridge: https://github.com/RSS-Bridge/rss-bridge/
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | So why is there no RSS feed link on the Neiman Lab page?
        
         | ihuman wrote:
         | There is an RSS feed link in the footer. There's also a "link"
         | tag to tell your browser that there's an RSS feed available for
         | the page.
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | Oh, right. A tiny "RSS" in dark grey type on a light grey
           | background at the bottom of what looked like an infinite
           | scroll.
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | alar44 wrote:
       | I still have no idea what RSS is used for.
        
       | charles_f wrote:
       | I hate newsletters. They break my workflow, and I don't want to
       | redesign my workflow for the handful of bloggers who insist on
       | making a newsletter instead of a feed.
       | 
       | I'm just not using my email in the same way I use news or blogs.
       | I made a couple of tentatives to build a mail to rss system and
       | stopped both times because I lacked the motivation, then
       | suggested it to feedly while I was using them and they added it
       | to the product... While I was moving to self-hosted miniflux.
        
         | DevX101 wrote:
         | I setup filters in gmail to archive my newsletters, add the
         | label 'Newsletters', and forward them to my RSS reader app (in
         | this case Readwise (paid), which has a personalized email that
         | accepts inbound traffic). Any new newsletters I sign up with
         | myname+news@gmail.com. That suffix means it still arrives at my
         | email address, but I can use that recipient to create filters.
         | I never see these emails unless I click on the 'Newsletters'
         | label.
         | 
         | This keeps my inbox clean.
        
         | longnguyen wrote:
         | You may find this service useful (not an affiliate, just found
         | it recently) https://kill-the-newsletter.com
        
         | gpanders wrote:
         | I'm a happy user of https://notifier.in/ for this purpose.
        
       | marban wrote:
       | RSS is alive and kicking. I created a little Web 2.0 phenomenon
       | named Popurls and recently launched https://biztoc.com -- ~65% of
       | the site is still RSS driven.
        
         | codazoda wrote:
         | Tell us greenies a little more? I don't use RSS for writing or
         | reading, but maybe I should.
         | 
         | Is this consuming other RSS feeds? Is it publishing a feed and
         | 65% of its traffic comes from feed consumers?
         | 
         | That would be nice, since I don't want to be at the whim of
         | search engines anymore (for blog type content).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jawns wrote:
       | Here are just some of the reasons why RSS fell out of favor...
       | 
       | 1) It's great for consumers of content, but not so great for
       | content producers or RSS reader vendors, in terms of monetization
       | or even analytics.
       | 
       | 2) It's great for tech-savvy folks, but not so great for mass
       | market reach, and the incentives to make mass market reach
       | feasible are low.
       | 
       | 3) It worked better back when most content was free. Paywalls are
       | a more sustainable business model, but aren't very compatible
       | with RSS.
        
         | wffurr wrote:
         | 1) Newsblur has been a nice lifestyle business for Sam Clay. I
         | suppose it won't ever be a billion dollar unicorn, but it works
         | beautifully for consumers of content.
        
       | seydor wrote:
       | going around in circles is bad news
       | 
       | In reality, content will be over in 2 years. AI is just better
       | content, well sourced, well written and quantifiably intentional.
       | Humans no longer need to apply for making content just like we
       | dont hunt for meat
        
         | Veen wrote:
         | > better content, well sourced, well written and quantifiable
         | intentional
         | 
         | I've not seen AI create "better content" than even a moderately
         | competent human, let alone an expert writer and researcher. How
         | do you know AI content is well-sourced when it's generated by
         | an AI which makes it up based on a statistical model? Well-
         | written is somewhat subjective, but ChatGTP is repetitive,
         | overly verbose, and the opposite of intentional.
         | 
         | AI content will be great for repetitive copy like eCommerce
         | descriptions, simple business and sports reports, and maybe API
         | documentation, but it won't replace human writers in most
         | contexts humans care about.
        
           | seydor wrote:
           | Cgpt is great at writing like a good copywriter, which is
           | already above average human. When journalists lose their
           | advantage, it becomes a matter of putting out there novel
           | ideas, which models can do, too. The 'journalism' of the
           | future will be basically curation of ideas.
           | 
           | And if we have an overabundance of good content then
           | attention will shift away from it because it gets boring.
        
             | Veen wrote:
             | I am a professional copywriter and technical writer, so I
             | have a dog in this race. But I don't agree that Cgpt is
             | anywhere near a professional standard. It can produce
             | mostly coherent and correct English, but not concise,
             | creative, or empathetic English. It's good enough to
             | replace human writing in some scenarios, but far from all.
        
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