[HN Gopher] In Kyrgyzstan it's common to kidnap your future wife
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In Kyrgyzstan it's common to kidnap your future wife
Author : MoSattler
Score : 34 points
Date : 2022-12-20 21:46 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
| kevingadd wrote:
| This is also a tradition of sorts in some Hmong communities. Was
| shocking to learn about it, especially to learn that it's not a
| thing of the past.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| Not just "the past" but the idea it happens only in far away
| places like Kyrgyzstan. In London, Bradford and some other UK
| cities there is an underground problem around arranged
| marriages that sometimes escalates into kidnap, violence and
| even "honour killings". There's a shroud of silence around it
| because Britain is a "modern multi-cultural" country.
| Joker_vD wrote:
| It's an ancient and noble tradition! And it's not like
| cultures should or even can change with times to adapt to new
| circumstances, should they? Get outta here with your cultural
| insensitivity!
|
| Speaking seriously, cultural tolerance can only exist to a
| certain extent because each culture has some things it
| absolutely (or almost absolutely) prohibits and disdains, so
| when two incompatible in such a way cultures meet, something
| has to give.
| bennyelv wrote:
| Forgive me but that sounds rather sensationalist. If you have
| any evidence of this phenomenon I would be interested to see
| it.
|
| Not that arranged marriages sometimes happen and honour
| killings too (albeit extremely rarely), but that there's a
| "shroud of silence" around such things when they do happen.
| honkler wrote:
| prettyStandard wrote:
| So I dated Kazakh woman for a while. This is true, but the title
| is misleading. In a nutshell, when two people elope, it's
| officially considered a kidnapping, to save face for the family.
| But no one get prosecuted and everyone knows what's going on.
|
| She said the only realistic thing, in the movie Borat, was the
| kidnapping scene, and even that was outlandish.
|
| Gonna go read the article now and see if I need to make any
| updates.
| charlangas wrote:
| In Mexico it is common to say that a woman was stolen or
| kidnapped ("Se la robo") when a couple elopes. Curious that the
| same face-saving mechanism is common in other parts of the
| world.
|
| As a boy whenever I heard a woman had been "stolen" I couldn't
| help but picture a man carrying her off on his shoulders in the
| middle of the night while she helplessly tried to get away.
| Took me a while to understand it was usually consensual.
| ahazred8ta wrote:
| The Kyrgyz term https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_kachuu covers
| elopement, certain kinds of arranged marriage, and actual
| kidnapping. YMMV
| mjklin wrote:
| Interesting Vice documentary on the subject:
| https://youtu.be/DKAusMNTNnk
| einpoklum wrote:
| I don't know Kyrgyzstan. But the story itself says:
|
| > In response, the Kyrgyz parliament raised the maximum sentence
| for bride kidnapping from three to seven years.
|
| and the tale at the beginning of the story is rare and extreme
| enough to spark a national campaign of outrage. I'm not saying
| that this phenomenon does not exist, but I do wonder if the
| Economist is not up-playing this for curiosity/shock value.
| [deleted]
| pydry wrote:
| >The researchers broke this figure down into those abducted
| "without consent" (6%) and those "with consent" (16%). Yet the
| idea of consent is difficult to parse in a country
|
| I knew some Kyrgz who talked about this and they said the real
| thing was rare, illegal and still happened (almost exclusively in
| remote villages) but mostly it was a performative ritual done by
| couples who were dating.
|
| I think the Economist is being intentionally obtuse here. 6% /
| 16% is about right.
| ummonk wrote:
| 6% is hardly what I'd call "rare".
| standardUser wrote:
| This appears to be the crux of the problem...
|
| "if you're unwed at 25, you're thought to be on the verge of
| spinsterhood, pretty much the worst failure imaginable"
|
| This sentiment seems to be near-universal in all but the most
| "progressive" societies (and even in some parts of those). And it
| results in all manner of grotesque and absurd behavior that robs
| people - mostly women but also men - of their humanity and
| autonomy.
|
| I applaud every young person with the courage to buck this trend
| in their own societies. The cost of doing so is often very high,
| but the pattern can only be broken by people brave enough to face
| those consequences and craft a less restricive world for the next
| generation.
| tmpacct19834 wrote:
| If you're interested, I would recommend checking out the short
| film "Ala Kachuu - Take and Run".
|
| Can't say if the film is an accurate portrayal, but it really
| angered me to imagine people having to experience this.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ala_Kachuu_-_Take_and_Run
| ur-whale wrote:
| https://archive.ph/kzGPf
| booleandilemma wrote:
| I can't help but wonder if people post things to HN as a semi-
| automated way of getting an archive link :)
| ruuda wrote:
| In this case it's overkill, if you don't enable javascript,
| the entire article is perfectly readable, including images,
| and without cookiewall or paywall.
| selcuka wrote:
| https://archive.ph/s4XQ8
| meitham wrote:
| I wonder if that's where Sacha Baron Cohen got his idea for Borat
| when kidnapping Pamela Anderson! He probably confused Kyrgyzstan
| with Kazakhstan!
| AbrahamParangi wrote:
| You know, I gotta say that time has not been kind to Borat. The
| casual racism in the service of satire feels pretty dated today
| and not in a good way.
| meitham wrote:
| I fully agree! My comment wasn't to endorse his movie but
| merely to suggest an origin for the main plot.
| codetrotter wrote:
| The point of the Borat movie was to make fun of western
| peoples beliefs about foreign people and foreign cultures.
|
| In order to capture the audience, it uses satire. It takes
| ideas about foreign people, exaggerates these ideas even
| further, and investigates how people react to these
| exaggerated ideas. It turned out that even when taken to
| ridiculous extremes, many people (as seen in the movie) were
| willing to buy the idea that Borat was a real person from a
| foreign country.
|
| Borat does feel dated now. But perhaps that also means, the
| movie was effective on some level, in highlighting these
| beliefs? And perhaps even to help combat said beliefs?
| prettyStandard wrote:
| It's there as well.
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