[HN Gopher] US Postal Service to purchase 66,000 electric delive...
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US Postal Service to purchase 66,000 electric delivery vehicles in
major shift
Author : 1123581321
Score : 39 points
Date : 2022-12-20 18:12 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| wiseleo wrote:
| Great step in the right direction. USPS routes are local, low
| speed once near its destination, involve lots of stops, and are
| relatively short in terms of total length. Vehicles can recharge
| overnight. Sounds like the ideal definition of business suitable
| for EVs.
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| Yep, I've seen gasoline mail trucks in use - start engine,
| drive 100 ft (30m), turn off engine, deliver mail, start
| engine, repeat, repeat. What a waste.
|
| I'm always happy to see mail carriers who walk between homes.
| kennedy wrote:
| As much as I support USPS to upgrade their fleet, I dont think
| its a smart financial idea for USPS to fund Oshkosh for the
| development of their EVs. Partnering with already EV focused
| companies would be a better long term investment, because they
| would be funded by other companies looking for EV delivery
| vehicles. This would drive down cost per unit and long term
| support. Companies like Rivian with successful Amazon EDVs, or
| Canoo with their modular design (MPDV).
|
| Military contracting companies like Oshkosh would charge USPS so
| much money for long-term support, and creating an expensive co-
| dependence with USPS. USPS wont be able to escape because they
| would need them to maintain 66,000 bespoke EVs.
| andsoitis wrote:
| > Rivian
|
| Strategically, it might be smart to avoid for the time being a
| company that is so new. Will they be around in a meaningful way
| in 5 years when you need the fleet serviced?
| kennedy wrote:
| The risk is high when investing into a younger company. I
| think younger companies, like Rivian, tend to collectively
| attract more talent and more modern ideas. Risky sure, but
| Rivian seems to gotten amazon's deep pocket investment, which
| is encourages more trust it would succeed.
|
| Oshkosh has experience with making workhorse trucks (i,e
| their firetrucks), but their EV initiative is banking on the
| USPS contract, its like a new startup; As risky as partnering
| with anyother EV company with just a concept car.
|
| Rivians, for example, already have the talent, manufacturing
| processes, and financial backing to get USPS trucks much
| quicker
| diebeforei485 wrote:
| Does Rivian actually sell delivery vehicles to anyone other
| than Amazon?
| dopylitty wrote:
| I'm curious whether Rivian has an exclusivity deal with
| Amazon or if they're totally maxed out capacity wise just
| producing the EDV.
|
| Watching the YouTube videos about the EDV I was thinking of
| that dogshit diesel Oshkosh thing the USPS ordered and
| shaking my head.
|
| The EDV is very Amazon tailored but if the USPS could front
| some cash to get another factory built and have Rivian
| produce a truck based on the EDV there I feel like that would
| be better than getting some electric motors bolted to an
| armored car like Oshkosh would provide.
| kennedy wrote:
| from the videos and articles I was able to find about the
| amazon EDV, amazon's investment stipulation was for Amazon
| to get first dibs on having their EDV manufactured and
| delivered first. Fortunately, it was not an exclusive
| platform for Amazon, anyone else can order it
| Element_ wrote:
| https://rivian.com/fleet
| exabrial wrote:
| FFS, or you know we could stop delivering billions of tons of
| spam? There is zero reason the Post Office needs this. The
| environment impact of the mail is immense...
|
| The impact of cutting down trees using diesel, processing the
| paper using fresh water, hauling the paper using diesel,
| printing, hauling the end product using diesel, throwing it away,
| then hauling the trash the landfill using diesel...
| tryptophan wrote:
| Fun fact USPS has a mail category specifically for sending spam
| to people, and it is sold at prices far below cost of delivery.
|
| Yay for government run businesses.
| jiggawatts wrote:
| The decision this reverses was to buy all-diesel trucks when
| everyone involved was screaming that electric makes the most
| sense.
|
| I can't prove it, but the whole thing smelled very strongly of
| corruption.
|
| _"I'd like to save the world too, but I have friends that make
| diesel trucks."_
| Tanoc wrote:
| DeJoy and a few of his peers have shares in Oshkosh. It makes
| sense that he would award the contract to Oshkosh, a military
| contractor, to build even more vehicles for the government. The
| more immediate problem putting aside the obvious favoritism is
| that Oshkosh had and effectively still has no ability to
| actually build passenger vehicles, and is reusing the
| drivetrains they use for their military vehicles. Meaning
| they're dirty, inefficient, and stupidly overbuilt diesels
| instead of batteries and in-hub electric motors that would
| benefit from stop and go routines all day, and charging at a
| central location in a fleet overnight.
| tsol wrote:
| >The USPS is primarily looking to get its fleet from defense
| contractor Oshkosh, which will provide 60,000 vehicles, with
| 45,000 of them being electric. But the mail agency will also look
| to other automakers for another 46,000 vans, with 21,000 of those
| being EVs.
|
| >Podesta told The Washington Post he believes it will pressure
| other shipping and delivery companies "to up their game, too."
| Some companies like FedEx have already reserved 2,500 electric
| delivery vans from GM-backed BrightDrop, and Amazon ordered
| 100,000 Rivian EVs to be on the road by 2030.
|
| Is a military contractor really the best solution we have for
| cars? As much as I love the headline, this feels like a handout
| to defense contractors
| dublinben wrote:
| The previous vehicle, the Grumman LLV, was also produced by a
| defense contractor. It's part and parcel (no pun intended) of
| delivering an enormous government contract. Traditional
| automakers just aren't in this business.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV
| justsomehnguy wrote:
| https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DAUPSA
|
| > Domestic auto production is defined as all autos assembled in
| the U.S.
|
| 45k-60k units would be a 1/5th or 1/6th of _all_ domestic
| production in the US for a year.
|
| Contract stipulates between 5k to 16.5k units per year, with a
| _production run_ for a ten years, which means parts, repairs
| and overalls are going for another 10-15 years after the run.
| It 's a quarter century investment, if not more - the last LLV
| was made in _1994_ :
|
| >> The lifespan specified by the U.S. Postal Service was 24
| years, but in 2009 this was extended to 30 years. The majority
| of LLVs have been on the road for over 27 years.
| dragontamer wrote:
| I understand that Li-ion production is limited, but I think USPS
| could be 100% Hybrid, PHEV, or Electric moving forward.
|
| I understand that EVs are boutique items that use lots of limited
| Li-ion cells. But Hybrid technology is very good these days, and
| USPS stop-and-go style movement only makes regenerative braking
| more important. Hybrid is the "lightest weight" style
| regenerative braking car, so I'd like to see Hybrids across the
| fleet. At a minimum.
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