[HN Gopher] US Postal Service to purchase 66,000 electric delive...
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       US Postal Service to purchase 66,000 electric delivery vehicles in
       major shift
        
       Author : 1123581321
       Score  : 39 points
       Date   : 2022-12-20 18:12 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | wiseleo wrote:
       | Great step in the right direction. USPS routes are local, low
       | speed once near its destination, involve lots of stops, and are
       | relatively short in terms of total length. Vehicles can recharge
       | overnight. Sounds like the ideal definition of business suitable
       | for EVs.
        
         | Tempest1981 wrote:
         | Yep, I've seen gasoline mail trucks in use - start engine,
         | drive 100 ft (30m), turn off engine, deliver mail, start
         | engine, repeat, repeat. What a waste.
         | 
         | I'm always happy to see mail carriers who walk between homes.
        
       | kennedy wrote:
       | As much as I support USPS to upgrade their fleet, I dont think
       | its a smart financial idea for USPS to fund Oshkosh for the
       | development of their EVs. Partnering with already EV focused
       | companies would be a better long term investment, because they
       | would be funded by other companies looking for EV delivery
       | vehicles. This would drive down cost per unit and long term
       | support. Companies like Rivian with successful Amazon EDVs, or
       | Canoo with their modular design (MPDV).
       | 
       | Military contracting companies like Oshkosh would charge USPS so
       | much money for long-term support, and creating an expensive co-
       | dependence with USPS. USPS wont be able to escape because they
       | would need them to maintain 66,000 bespoke EVs.
        
         | andsoitis wrote:
         | > Rivian
         | 
         | Strategically, it might be smart to avoid for the time being a
         | company that is so new. Will they be around in a meaningful way
         | in 5 years when you need the fleet serviced?
        
           | kennedy wrote:
           | The risk is high when investing into a younger company. I
           | think younger companies, like Rivian, tend to collectively
           | attract more talent and more modern ideas. Risky sure, but
           | Rivian seems to gotten amazon's deep pocket investment, which
           | is encourages more trust it would succeed.
           | 
           | Oshkosh has experience with making workhorse trucks (i,e
           | their firetrucks), but their EV initiative is banking on the
           | USPS contract, its like a new startup; As risky as partnering
           | with anyother EV company with just a concept car.
           | 
           | Rivians, for example, already have the talent, manufacturing
           | processes, and financial backing to get USPS trucks much
           | quicker
        
         | diebeforei485 wrote:
         | Does Rivian actually sell delivery vehicles to anyone other
         | than Amazon?
        
           | dopylitty wrote:
           | I'm curious whether Rivian has an exclusivity deal with
           | Amazon or if they're totally maxed out capacity wise just
           | producing the EDV.
           | 
           | Watching the YouTube videos about the EDV I was thinking of
           | that dogshit diesel Oshkosh thing the USPS ordered and
           | shaking my head.
           | 
           | The EDV is very Amazon tailored but if the USPS could front
           | some cash to get another factory built and have Rivian
           | produce a truck based on the EDV there I feel like that would
           | be better than getting some electric motors bolted to an
           | armored car like Oshkosh would provide.
        
             | kennedy wrote:
             | from the videos and articles I was able to find about the
             | amazon EDV, amazon's investment stipulation was for Amazon
             | to get first dibs on having their EDV manufactured and
             | delivered first. Fortunately, it was not an exclusive
             | platform for Amazon, anyone else can order it
        
           | Element_ wrote:
           | https://rivian.com/fleet
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | FFS, or you know we could stop delivering billions of tons of
       | spam? There is zero reason the Post Office needs this. The
       | environment impact of the mail is immense...
       | 
       | The impact of cutting down trees using diesel, processing the
       | paper using fresh water, hauling the paper using diesel,
       | printing, hauling the end product using diesel, throwing it away,
       | then hauling the trash the landfill using diesel...
        
         | tryptophan wrote:
         | Fun fact USPS has a mail category specifically for sending spam
         | to people, and it is sold at prices far below cost of delivery.
         | 
         | Yay for government run businesses.
        
       | jiggawatts wrote:
       | The decision this reverses was to buy all-diesel trucks when
       | everyone involved was screaming that electric makes the most
       | sense.
       | 
       | I can't prove it, but the whole thing smelled very strongly of
       | corruption.
       | 
       |  _"I'd like to save the world too, but I have friends that make
       | diesel trucks."_
        
         | Tanoc wrote:
         | DeJoy and a few of his peers have shares in Oshkosh. It makes
         | sense that he would award the contract to Oshkosh, a military
         | contractor, to build even more vehicles for the government. The
         | more immediate problem putting aside the obvious favoritism is
         | that Oshkosh had and effectively still has no ability to
         | actually build passenger vehicles, and is reusing the
         | drivetrains they use for their military vehicles. Meaning
         | they're dirty, inefficient, and stupidly overbuilt diesels
         | instead of batteries and in-hub electric motors that would
         | benefit from stop and go routines all day, and charging at a
         | central location in a fleet overnight.
        
       | tsol wrote:
       | >The USPS is primarily looking to get its fleet from defense
       | contractor Oshkosh, which will provide 60,000 vehicles, with
       | 45,000 of them being electric. But the mail agency will also look
       | to other automakers for another 46,000 vans, with 21,000 of those
       | being EVs.
       | 
       | >Podesta told The Washington Post he believes it will pressure
       | other shipping and delivery companies "to up their game, too."
       | Some companies like FedEx have already reserved 2,500 electric
       | delivery vans from GM-backed BrightDrop, and Amazon ordered
       | 100,000 Rivian EVs to be on the road by 2030.
       | 
       | Is a military contractor really the best solution we have for
       | cars? As much as I love the headline, this feels like a handout
       | to defense contractors
        
         | dublinben wrote:
         | The previous vehicle, the Grumman LLV, was also produced by a
         | defense contractor. It's part and parcel (no pun intended) of
         | delivering an enormous government contract. Traditional
         | automakers just aren't in this business.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grumman_LLV
        
         | justsomehnguy wrote:
         | https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DAUPSA
         | 
         | > Domestic auto production is defined as all autos assembled in
         | the U.S.
         | 
         | 45k-60k units would be a 1/5th or 1/6th of _all_ domestic
         | production in the US for a year.
         | 
         | Contract stipulates between 5k to 16.5k units per year, with a
         | _production run_ for a ten years, which means parts, repairs
         | and overalls are going for another 10-15 years after the run.
         | It 's a quarter century investment, if not more - the last LLV
         | was made in _1994_ :
         | 
         | >> The lifespan specified by the U.S. Postal Service was 24
         | years, but in 2009 this was extended to 30 years. The majority
         | of LLVs have been on the road for over 27 years.
        
       | dragontamer wrote:
       | I understand that Li-ion production is limited, but I think USPS
       | could be 100% Hybrid, PHEV, or Electric moving forward.
       | 
       | I understand that EVs are boutique items that use lots of limited
       | Li-ion cells. But Hybrid technology is very good these days, and
       | USPS stop-and-go style movement only makes regenerative braking
       | more important. Hybrid is the "lightest weight" style
       | regenerative braking car, so I'd like to see Hybrids across the
       | fleet. At a minimum.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-20 23:02 UTC)