[HN Gopher] RapidSlide Adjustable Wrench
___________________________________________________________________
RapidSlide Adjustable Wrench
Author : bcon
Score : 40 points
Date : 2022-12-20 17:25 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (mechanomy.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (mechanomy.com)
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Adjustable wrenches are good in emergencies, and that's about it.
| Never use one if you don't have to.
| brk wrote:
| I have found the Knipex adjustable pliers to be a much better
| alternative: https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-
| water-pump...
| cityofdelusion wrote:
| The bargain bin is fine, you just need to know what you're
| buying, and most people have no idea. For the engineering types
| here, you just need to remember one thing -- complexity scales
| fast. A bargain bin cast single piece wrench has no moving parts
| and only one failure point, the accuracy of that cast. If the
| price is low, its probably worth grabbing.
|
| The bargain bin table saw on the other hand has multiple
| dimensions of accuracy, many joints that have to line up, many
| engineered materials with various degrees of quality
| (polycarbonate? ABS? cast aluminum?) along multiple interference
| angles. Not a good idea to throw that $129 special in your cart.
|
| Remember that accuracy isn't cheap. Quality tool steel, dies,
| machining, QA -- it all costs money and is reflected in that
| price you're paying. Adjustable wrenches as show in the article
| are notorious for this problem. Backlash is one of those things
| that your average consumer doesn't think about. The engineer can
| do some quick thinking when shopping, "can I really manufacture
| XYZ part at scale and sell it (at retail!) for $1.00 and expect
| any degree of accuracy in that worm gear, on which this part
| relies on entirely for its usefulness?"
| waltbosz wrote:
| The wrench in the article reminds me of that class of products
| engineered to maximize sales, not utility.
|
| I teach my children that dollar store products are all junk. But
| I still let them shop there because it's an inexpensive way for
| them to learn the lesson that there are businesses that have no
| scruples about selling junk products.
|
| I wonder how disheartening it is to be an engineer who designs
| these products. To be honest, they're probably just happy to be
| making a paycheck just like many of us. I've worked plenty of
| jobs that I didn't believe in.
| constantcrying wrote:
| Wera is even selling self adjusting wrenches, which tighten
| themselves when you turn them. The big drawback is that the
| adjustment range is quite small.
|
| All adjustable wrenches have the inevitable problem that they are
| easier to break then their solid counterparts and have some flex
| in their construction.
| Bluecobra wrote:
| Not all bargain tools are bad. One of my favorite YouTube
| channels to find decent quality/affordable tools is Project Farm.
| Funnily enough he did recommend a Crescent brand wrench:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyOd05PUix4
| dang wrote:
| This title was badly editorialized. Submitted title was "Beware
| of Bargin Bin Tools". You can see from the earlier comments here
| how badly that skewed the discussion in a generic direction that
| was dominated by the rewritten title. This is why HN has a rule
| excluding this type of title rewrite:
|
| " _Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or
| linkbait; don 't editorialize._"
|
| If you want to say what you think is important about an article,
| that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then
| your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's:
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
|
| It's actually a good submission, but you need to use the original
| title so that can people can figure out for themselves how to
| assess the content and what they want to say about it.
| h2odragon wrote:
| Poorly designed, poorly manufactured, barely works in use _and_
| rounds the nuts you use it on so that subsequent attempts will be
| harder even with better tools.
|
| It feels like there's been a strong Satanic / nihilistic
| philosophy at work among the hand tool industry for a while now.
| Started somewhere around the time period when the movie "Rambo"
| caused a fad for crappy "survival knives."
| waltbosz wrote:
| My ironic favorite are the cheap screw drivers that destroy
| themselves instead of stripping the mildly tight screw.
| bee_rider wrote:
| Clearly a feature, not a bug.
| waltbosz wrote:
| Hmm, I doubt it was a design decision. The only time I've
| experience this was from bargain bin screwdriver sets.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I think we are in a death spiral:
|
| 10 Some people buy cheap and/or gimmicky crap
|
| 20 This is observed by the industry so even some name brands
| (like Crescent) make cheap and/or gimmicky crap
|
| 30 People notice that even name-brands are making crap, so
| switch from shopping on brand to shopping on price
|
| 40 GOTO 10
| lazide wrote:
| It's a general shift economy wise from the post WW2/wartime
| 'build it simple, build it tough' to optimizing to cheaper and
| cheaper price points (while maximizing profit) while 'still
| works'.
|
| Part of it I think is that most tool buyers now (statistically)
| are urban/suburban homeowners or renters which are not going to
| use it much, and are often not even capable of wearing out the
| old style tools. (And are not the proverbial 500 lb gorilla).
|
| Industrial tools are still quite sturdy. They're also far more
| expensive than any normal homeowner would (or should) ever
| consider.
|
| It's the market delivering what people will pay for, not what
| people say they want.
| constantcrying wrote:
| This diseases has infected almost anything. Even many expensive
| product I see have obvious cut corners and great effort seems
| to have gone into making it connect to an app, which nobody in
| their right mind would want to use.
|
| The sever decline in general product quality, together with an
| increase in unneeded complexity, is absolutely awful. You can
| go on amazon right now and for every product imaginable you can
| find many which are essentially just designed to be thrown into
| the trash in a couple of years, when with some actual effort
| the same thing could be made to last far longer.
|
| It is easy to blame the buyers who "just cares about the cost",
| but I am not sure that tells the entire story. Surely there is
| a significant market segment of people willing to buy actual
| high quality products.
| theiz wrote:
| I noticed the bargain bin in the hardware store often just gives
| you the illusion of buying cheap. In reality you just get crap
| for a price that is higher then the branded tools
| Eduardo3rd wrote:
| I've long subscribed to the philosophy that you should buy the
| cheapest tool you can find and use safely, use it until it wears
| out, breaks, or your skill surpasses the capability of the tool -
| and only then should you spend money on high quality tools. Too
| much money is thrown away in the name of "buy once, cry once"
| only to discover that you don't need the capabilities offered by
| the top of the line options.
| dbg31415 wrote:
| I guess... what you're saying is not bad advice.
|
| Maybe instead, aim to buy tools as cheaply as you can the first
| time.
|
| I think it's best to just get your tools as gifts, or from
| garage sales.
|
| But there are a lot of tools that are cheap, feel cheap, and
| will break on you.
|
| Avoid using cheaply made tools -- this is also good advice.
|
| A neighbor bought a table saw with really flimsy legs... and
| the whole things just shook when you put boards through it.
| Look, you don't want to use a table saw like that. For... all
| the common sense reasons.
|
| Plus, with gifts at least, it's nice knowing my grandfather
| used the same socket set I have now. Emotionally-nice, and
| quality-nice... I know they aren't going to break on me since
| they didn't break on him.
| ekidd wrote:
| > _Look, you don 't want to use a table saw like that. For...
| all the common sense reasons._
|
| For example, you might have an increased risk of wood
| kickback, very nearly lose a leg, and spend years in physical
| therapy trying to replace the muscle mass that died. (I knew
| a guy.) Or you might bleed out.
|
| Seriously, a few extra safety features on a table saw can
| make the difference between life and death. Assuming you
| don't just disable them.
|
| (I have a cheapish table saw, but one that isn't complete
| garbage. I treat it with about the same caution I'd treat
| unexploded ordnance from World War II.)
| dbg31415 wrote:
| > I have a cheapish table saw, but one that isn't complete
| garbage. I treat it with about the same caution I'd treat
| unexploded ordnance from World War II.
|
| For good reason! https://duckduckgo.com/?q=table+saw+accide
| nt&t=ffab&iar=imag...
| constantcrying wrote:
| >I've long subscribed to the philosophy that you should buy the
| cheapest tool you can find and use safely, use it until it
| wears out, breaks, or your skill surpasses the capability of
| the tool
|
| For a sufficiently cheap tool that might be _instantaneously_
| and the difference can be very hard to tell.
|
| I think that you should spend money according to what you are
| comfortable with and what you actually have a use for.
|
| >Too much money is thrown away in the name of "buy once, cry
| once" only to discover that you don't need the capabilities
| offered by the top of the line options.
|
| I would say too many products are made and thrown away because
| people discovered that they were too badly made to use them.
| cjensen wrote:
| There is also a safety concern with overly cheap tools.
|
| For an example, the adjustable wrench in this article. What
| happens when you apply a lot of force on a stubborn nut? If the
| wrench experiences rapid unscheduled disassembly, you now have
| broken pieces flying in random directions.
|
| In the US, the thing that most prevents this from being a
| problem is the threat of liability lawsuits. That doesn't apply
| to a tool made by a small company in China and sold by a fly-
| by-night outfit on Amazon's marketplace. I'm guessing Amazon is
| unknowingly the liable party here, but I'm not a lawyer.
| xd wrote:
| Biggest worry would be smashing your knuckles on something
| when it gives up not the thing exploding.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| What's going to happen is that the nut will round over,
| because there's little in this design to prevent the jaw
| back-driving the helix. Having used a lot of adjustable
| wrenches, and rounded over quite a few bolts, now I keep sets
| of open-end wrenches in reach on the toolbench and for
| adjustables I carry exclusively Knipex Pliers Wrenches, which
| are awesome tools. There's no way you're breaking the casting
| of the wrench without a big cheater bar, which I admit to
| having used...while wearing safety glasses.
| sliken wrote:
| Knipex are awesome, a good example of quality resulting in
| a tool that lasts much longer than the cheap tools and
| causing much less damage to the nuts you are working on.
| soared wrote:
| Until you use a cheap tool on your expensive bike, the
| allowance on the tool is poor and strips a screw, which can
| only be custom ordered direct from the manufacturer with a 2
| month lead time, leaving your half-fixed bike completely
| useless.
|
| This happened to me when bleeding my hydraulic brakes - the
| screw was a 2.5mm Allen and my keys were slightly smaller than
| 2.5 from being rounded over a short period of time. That
| rounded the screw, and my choice was to leave my brakes without
| fluid.. or drill out the screw!
| marcus0x62 wrote:
| Allen fasteners are bad, and the people who designed them
| should feel bad. Even relatively high quality allen wrenches
| are prone to stripping fasteners. The best option on the
| market is the MAC RBRT series[1]
|
| 1 - https://www.mactools.com/products/sbdb77rbrt
| johnwalkr wrote:
| I keep a handful of left-handed drill bits on hand for
| drilling out screws. You can get them cheaply from mcmaster.
| They work much better than "Easy-outs" and similar tools, and
| 90% of the time the fastener backs out well before you reach
| the point where you have to hope you're not damaging anything
| but the screw.
| not_the_fda wrote:
| I strongly disagree. Cheap tools are a pain to use, and break
| when you need them most, and perpetuate throw away culture. If
| a good tool is too expensive to own find a rental or buy used,
| otherwise buy high quality.
|
| High quality is a joy to work with and will serve you a long
| time.
| Eduardo3rd wrote:
| High quality tools are absolutely a joy! I love the high end
| tools that I get to use in my professional life as a
| mechanical engineer. (less frequently now that I am a
| manager, but you never get tired of using a well designed
| Festool, Bosch, or Wera product)
|
| However,I don't need the same level of quality in the things
| I have at home. I've built, repaired, and otherwise tinkered
| away on countless projects over the years with things I
| found/bought on sale/picked up along the way with no issues.
| I'm not a professional [plumber, carpenter, electrician,
| mason, machinist, etc] and I don't need the same tools they
| have to get the job done safely.
|
| There's nothing wrong with choosing to spend your personal
| money on high end tools. In general I find the attitude
| around tool ownership to be one of gate keeping though, and
| I'm more interested in getting started and discovering what I
| really need with less expensive tools than I am in spending
| my entire budget on high end equipment only to learn that I
| don't need specific expensive features after a few uses.
| D13Fd wrote:
| Some people are into creating things, and other people are
| into tools. As the saying goes, it's a poor craftsperson
| that blames their tools. But I also think it's a poor
| craftsperson who tries to improve by improving their tools.
|
| I see it a lot with photography. Some talented
| photographers pull incredible images out of older digital
| cameras and lenses, and don't bother to get new
| cameras/lenses because the reality is that a new camera
| wouldn't make their images much better.
|
| Other photographers lack that kind of creative skill but
| still spend their time buying better and better gear,
| talking about gear online, and taking pictures of test
| charts--all without improving their skill.
| sliken wrote:
| Indeed. I hate cheap tools, and they can damage not just
| themselves, but whatever you are working on.
|
| Last thing I want to do is round an allen, strip a screw, or
| round a nut because a tool can't be bothered to be the right
| shape and be made out of the right materials to apply
| whatever torque/pressure is needed.
|
| Good tools easily last decades, and I have some from my dad.
| Cheap tools often last a hard use or two, and sometimes less
| than a single hard use.
| animal_spirits wrote:
| I follow this sentiment. Buy nice or buy twice
| Rebelgecko wrote:
| For me it's more of a pareto thing. 90% of the time, the
| Harbor Freight tool is gonna do the job. Even if I end up
| needing to buy a more expensive tool 10% of the time, I'm
| still coming out ahead. YMMV depending on how often you
| need to use various tools or if you're buying jack stands
| (or anything else where failure could lead to death/injury)
| sliken wrote:
| However I got a harbor freight pneumatic nail gun, oiled
| it before use, and every night before putting it away. It
| almost lasted the building of an 80 foot fence, almost.
|
| Funny enough I did buy some jack stands that looked good,
| and we recalled for catastrophic failures:
| https://images.harborfreight.com/hftweb/recalls/Jack-
| Stand-R...
|
| If you need a single or low use unpowered tool I consider
| harbor freight. Generally anything powered, which is more
| expensive, I want to keep longer, and has a higher chance
| of damaging itself, what you are working on, or you I buy
| something name brand.
|
| The harbor freight rolling tool chests are quite nice,
| and features on various tool/garage forums as a great
| deal.
| mikestew wrote:
| From the recall notice:
|
| _...a potential, while under load and with a shift in
| weight, for the pawl to disengage from the extension
| lifting post, allowing the stand to drop suddenly._
|
| Having just run to the garage to make sure that _my_
| Harbor Freight jack stands aren 't in that recall, it
| occurred to me, "how do you fuck up jack stands?" If
| there ever was a patent, it had to have run out before my
| grandfather was born; just go copy a high-quality model,
| sorted. Even if one doesn't just plain copy the design, I
| don't think you'd have to be much of an engineer to come
| up with something that won't collapse on itself under
| load. I mean, there's three pieces to the whole damned
| thing, and the design seems to allow a _lot_ of slop on
| tolerances. Yet the folks at Pittsburgh Jack Stands(tm)
| seemed to think, "but we could save another nickel if we
| made the tolerances just a bit larger."
|
| Anyway, that's why I always slide some sort of backup
| under the vehicle no matter the quality of the jack
| stand.
| [deleted]
| 0x457 wrote:
| Depends on kind of tool. A good (and probably expensive) tool
| will last you long, but sometimes those tools are more
| complicated to use because they are targeting professions.
| When it comes to an adjustable wrench - sure, buy an
| expensive one from a good brand. That makes sense because
| cheap and expensive only differ in quality and durability.
|
| When it comes to complicated tools, probably start with
| something reasonable and cheap. That covers not just tools,
| but also appliances and other things: cheap coffee machines
| are put coffee/capsule in and press a button, expensive one
| would be very manual.
| bluedino wrote:
| I think he means more towards 'buy the cheapest, but quality
| tool'
|
| You don't want to use a dollar store screwdriver but at the
| same time you probably don't need a Wera.
|
| I have a friend who has a fault of buying the best of
| everything, for example he bought a $300 Milwaukee cordless
| to hang some pictures on the wall, because "One day I might
| want to build a swingset". It's been 8 years and he never
| built that swingset.
| sliken wrote:
| Sure, an unused $300 milwaukee cordless is a waste,
| definitely don't buy something like that before you need
| it. Especially since there's quite a few choices available.
|
| However a 6 piece Wera screwdriver set is $30-35 and easily
| to justify in any apartment or home and should last
| dramatically longer than a dollar screw screwdriver and
| MUCH less likely to cause damage to whatever you are
| working on. Even building a piece of Ikea furniture and the
| most minor of repairs (light switches, door hinges, loose
| chairs, etc) would justify the wera set.
|
| Much better to buy something decent set for $35 than might
| last a lifetime of light use than the nearly disposable
| dollar store stuff. Even a small apartment can justify a
| handful of screwdrivers and allens.
| darksaints wrote:
| I've been burned repeatedly by your philosophy. It only seems
| to hold if you know exactly what you want. I've got closets
| littered with high quality things that I don't ever use
| anymore because I lost interest before I could ever
| appreciate its quality.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| Not detracting from your point, but maybe sell them on
| Craigslist?
| darksaints wrote:
| Selling them is a pain of its own. I would have preferred
| to have bought cheap and not have to worry about
| recuperating value.
|
| I think people get it into their heads that they need to
| be a buy cheap or buy quality person entirely, and I
| think the most succinct point I could make is that it
| doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. Buy quality
| for the things where you know what you want and value the
| quality improvement, and buy cheap for the things that
| are new and unknown to you. You don't need a pro-quality
| snowboard before you decide that you like snowboarding.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| This has been my mantra:
|
| "There have been 3 great joys in my life: sex, food and music.
| Of these music has proved the most reliable."
|
| but your comment makes me want to revise it:
|
| "There have been 4 great joys in my life: sex, food, music and
| good tools, and of these, music and good tools have competed
| fairly to be the most reliable."
| quercusa wrote:
| I have several Estwing hand tools that never fail to delight
| me when using them.
| kennend3 wrote:
| I agree with your general position.
|
| here's where things get really interesting , who really makes
| these tools in the first place?
|
| https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-...
|
| I find that "tools" develop the same sort of things we see in
| tech (brand love like this endless apple vs android thing).
|
| but when you look at the chart of who actually makes these
| things.. it sort of falls apart.
|
| Like "rigid", "Milwaukee" and the terrible Cryobi are all TTI?
|
| Obviously built to different specs/price points but it is
| interesting to see one "brand" targeting all markets?
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| And yet...
|
| The free tools that come included with that 3D printer you just
| bought will slip and ruin at least one of the hex nuts holding
| the FEP to the vat and you will have to spend nearly $100 for a
| new vat when you could have instead spent $45 on a set of Wera
| hex tools, not trashed the hex screw, and have a damn nice set
| of hex tools forever. (And your bike will thank you as well.)
| slingnow wrote:
| Where exactly did OP advocate for using free tools that come
| included with your new [3D Printer / Furniture / etc]?
|
| Also, anecdotally after 30+ years of using the free tools
| that come included with [whatever], I have never once ruined
| any of the hardware. The saying goes that a poor craftsman
| blames his tools, and that seems apt here.
| nickthegreek wrote:
| Agreed. Buy the cheap one first. If you use it enough to break
| it or outgrow it, buy the best one you can then afford. So many
| of my tools I need just a few times a year. The harbor freight
| model is all I need.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| I follow this for things I truly will need occasionally, like
| most specialized car repair tools. But my exceptions are things
| I know I will use regularly. In addition to not replacing
| things as they wear out, my reasoning is that it's nice to have
| a set of each type of tool, with a storage case instead of
| ending up with a large mix of tools. Of course, someone else
| might have a different list of regularly used tools and some of
| the following list is from trial and error, I didn't get all of
| these right the first time.
|
| - Screwdrivers: I have 2 Wera sets with many bits (small and
| large). They come with nice fabric/velcro carrying cases that
| are perfect for throwing in a bag, car, or drawer. High quality
| and the packaging is worth it compared to something loose or in
| a plastic case. I also have one full set of non-configurable
| Vessel screwdrivers that stays in my work area. They are a
| wooden composite, feel professional but are not much more than
| crafstman prices.[2]
|
| - Wire strippers, side cutters, adjustable wrenches, pliers,
| etc: These really depend on material properties and tight
| tolerance, and it's worth buying quality. I like Knipex and
| engineer brands.
|
| - Sockets and non-adjustable wrenches: These tend to be sold in
| large sets at sale prices and at various qualities. Unless
| you're a mechanic you can probably go into any hardware store,
| do a quick google search for complaints, and buy the cheapest
| set of sockets and wrenches. Don't pay for "200 pieces"
| including crappy little 1/4" bits and crappy screwdrivers in a
| giant blow-molded case that will annoy you later. Bonus points
| if you can find a small, nice case filled with actually useful
| sizes (probably <18mm and/or 3/4").
|
| - Ratcheting screwdrivers: don't buy one unless you really find
| you need one for some reason. If you do buy one, it will either
| be useless or expensive.
|
| - Drill bits: buy house brand from an industrial supply shop or
| mcmaster. Make sure it's easy and cheap to replace individual
| sizes.
|
| - Battery-powered tools: Pick something like DeWalt, Bosch,
| Milwaukee or Hitachi/Hikoki[2,3] (the name of this one varies
| wildly with region) with a full range of tools and good
| reputation
|
| - Soldering iron: You probably don't need more power than a
| pinecil which is usb-c and super-portable.[4] Plus it's got
| RISC-V cred. It's so convenient to unplug my laptop for 30
| minutes and plug this in, or plug into a usb-c battery. For
| benchtop, a "Hakko clone" that takes abundant and great TS12
| tips is good. To be honest I never touch my clone or my much
| more expensive but heavy actual Hakko soldering station since I
| got the pinecil. Both pinecil and the clone similar price to a
| piece of crap with poor temperature control from the hardware
| store.
|
| [1]https://www.vesseltoolsusa.com/product/screwdriver/detail/VT
| ...
|
| [2]I chose Hikoki because I move around and it's available
| globally, and because it has excellent but pretty inexpensive
| vacuum cleaners that use the same batteries as the power tools.
|
| [3]https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/hikoki-r36daw4z-36v-cordles
| ...
|
| [4]https://pine64.com/product/pinecil-smart-mini-portable-
| solde...
| ekidd wrote:
| > _I 've long subscribed to the philosophy that you should buy
| the cheapest tool you can find and use safely, use it until it
| wears out, breaks, or your skill surpasses the capability of
| the tool - and only then should you spend money on high quality
| tools._
|
| Overall, it's not a bad philosophy. But I can think of a couple
| of complications here:
|
| - For battery-operated tools, standardizing on one system means
| you can buy a handful of pricy batteries and share them among
| many tools. Batteries wear out, and eventually need repeated
| replacement. And only needing to replace, say, 3 batteries from
| a single brand is convenient.
|
| - A lot of times, it's possible to buy medium-quality tool sets
| (say, hex wrenches) for less than $100. I'm literally going to
| use many of them as long as I live. Why not spend $70 and get
| something halfway decent, instead of the $30 junk?
|
| - If you're doing a big project (refinishing kitchen cabinets,
| building a deck, etc), that can easily justify spending a few
| hundred dollars on a quality key tool. A quality drill/hammer
| driver pair is game changing, for example. Saves countless
| hours compared to my old gear.
|
| I had Craftsman power tools until battery replacements were
| only available from fly-by-night companies and a couple of the
| tools started failing (after 20 years). I wound up buying a
| couple of DeWalt tools on sale and they've been rock-solid. So
| I added a couple more as needed. I tried a Ryobi line trimmer a
| few years ago, and the battery system failed within two weeks.
| So I took it back and paid $50 extra for a DeWalt version that
| has run flawlessly. I could save some money by buying less-used
| tools from a second, cheaper brand. But that would double my
| battery replacement costs over the next 20 years, and I'd need
| to do more research for each purchase.
|
| So sometimes a set of "79 auto tools for one low price!" is a
| good move. And sometimes, mid-to-high end homeowner gear or
| even a contractor tool is worth the money.
| Eduardo3rd wrote:
| 'I had Craftsman power tools until battery replacements were
| only available from fly-by-night companies and a couple of
| the tools started failing (after 20 years). I wound up buying
| a couple of DeWalt tools on sale and they've been rock-solid.
| So I added a couple more as needed.'
|
| I think we are in complete agreement! After 20 years of use
| are are more than qualified to know what you need and go get
| it regardless of the price point!
| Arrath wrote:
| > ..you should buy the cheapest tool you can find and use
| safely, use it until it wears out, breaks, or your skill
| surpasses the capability of the tool..
|
| I wholeheartedly agree with this view, with one caveat. You
| shouldn't cheap out on certain specialty tools where failure
| can pose a risk of injury or damage, a suspension spring
| compressor is my usual example. Fortunately, purchasing an
| expensive one-off tool isn't your only option! They're often
| available for rent from local auto parts stores, to keep with
| my example.
|
| But yeah, besides that caveat, you'll often be better served by
| going with a reasonably priced tool. If you use it enough to
| wear it out, or break it, kudos! Time to upgrade.
| oflannabhra wrote:
| I mostly follow this, with the additional criteria of how often
| the tool will be used affecting the level of quality of my
| initial purchase.
|
| "Buy once, cry once" is basically the opposite of your
| philosophy, and my personal philosophy lies somewhere in the
| middle.
| rob74 wrote:
| > _I 've long subscribed to the philosophy that you should buy
| the cheapest tool you can find and use safely [...] Too much
| money is thrown away in the name of "buy once, cry once" only
| to discover that you don't need the capabilities offered by the
| top of the line options._
|
| How about something in between these two extremes? You don't
| need to go "top of the line", but you can save yourself a lot
| of frustration if you spend a little more than the absolute
| minimum...
| jjeaff wrote:
| I have two exception for the buy it cheap rule. I first look
| for a high quality option being sold used. Sometimes you can
| get the better option for cheaper. This is of course only worth
| the time on more expensive stuff.
|
| Then, I also have started getting the one step up from the
| cheapest option. A lot of times that seems to be a better buy
| these days.
| legitster wrote:
| Agreed!
|
| If you are a trade professional and regularly have tools crap
| out on you, that's one thing. But my tools are more likely to
| need replacing purely out of obsolescence than anything else.
| And having an overbuilt tool collecting dust is just as much a
| waste as throwing one away occasionally.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| > "And having an overbuilt tool collecting dust is just as
| much a waste as throwing one away occasionally."
|
| Is it?
| legitster wrote:
| Nice tools are nice because they use more resources.
|
| A Milwaukee drill is physically heavier than a Ryobi of the
| same size - purely because of all of the upgraded
| components to make it more durable/longer-lasting.
|
| But if you are only touching 5% of the expected lifespan of
| your tool, no need to have one that's over-engineered.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| Well, you are ignoring several things:
|
| 1. is the milwaukee doubly-engineered compared to the
| ryobi? because if you end up with 2 ryobis, that's twice
| the material/energy input of the one milwaukee
|
| 2. you seem to be ignoring the possibility that the
| milwaukee is "so" over-engineered that you pass it on to
| someone else, greatly extending its effective lifetime.
| legitster wrote:
| Again, from personal experience I have yet to ever get
| rid of a tool because it failed on me. The only reason I
| have ever lost a tool was through theft, the
| battery/charger/replaceable component was no longer
| supported, or the tool was too unsafe to use.
|
| If I was a professional or ran a tool rental business I
| would 100% agree. But I wouldn't buy a pickup track no
| matter how durable if all I need it to do is grab
| groceries. It's better to get a tool engineered for the
| level of work expected.
| alanbernstein wrote:
| What is the difference between "too unsafe to use" and
| "failed on me"?
| legitster wrote:
| Well, the one I am thinking of is an old-school all-metal
| belt sander that my grandfather gave to me.
|
| The thing is an heirloom and may very well last forever,
| but basically has an unacceptable lack of modern safety
| features at this point. No trips, no guards, horrible
| ergonomics, weighs a ton, and has no grounding (keep in
| mind it's all metal). It also takes non-standard belts
| and I may or may not have cut my hand open twice just
| trying to change them.
|
| So while I can understand the appeal of buying a tool
| that lasts forever, what are the odds you will actually
| want to use it forever?
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| for the typical level of work expected, or (as most
| Americans do with their vehicles) the "max" level of work
| expected?
|
| There are plumbing tools I will never buy because I'm not
| a professional plumber. But you can be sure that the
| plumbing tools that I do own are top of the line for the
| tasks that they can accomplish.
| creaturemachine wrote:
| Yes, because a good amount of the cost of that pro level
| tool is R&D and support for its use by pros. By using it
| once and shelving it you've paid for more engineering than
| you need. Case in point, when I needed to drill two holes
| in concrete block I opted for the cheapest $20 aliexpress
| carbide hole saw I could find rather than the professional
| diamond tipped version costing hundreds. In the unlikely
| event that I'll need to do the same job again I could
| easily bang out a few more cuts with what I have or order
| another cheap one and still be ahead.
| creato wrote:
| I think this thread is conflating wasted money with
| wasted materials. Buying a nice tool once and
| underutilizing it wastes money. Buying cheap tools
| multiple times wastes materials.
| creaturemachine wrote:
| That underused professional tool is as much a waste as
| the underused cheap one, maybe more considering the
| upgrade in materials. And between cost and materials,
| it's obvious which is the most on the mind of the
| consumer. The aliexpress tool is already rusting sitting
| on the shelf and I don't care. If I had followed "the
| mantra" and spent hundreds I'd feel like a sucker each
| time I opened my tool box.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| and energy. and creates waste.
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| I second this question.
|
| If nothing else, there are various kinds of wastefulness:
| money, pollution during manufacture / delivery, landfill,
| opportunity costs, etc.
| roflyear wrote:
| True about some things, but there is a segment of tools where
| the first or second time you use it ever will be "this tool is
| garbage" and then you have to buy another one.
|
| It depends on the tool. Personally, I have a ton of Rigid
| tools. They all work really well. I replace them with Rigid if
| they break, actually, because my batteries work with Rigid.
|
| But, my table saw is a good table saw, because I want it to be
| safe, I want it to cut straight, and I want to enjoy using it.
|
| My bandsaw is a good bandsaw b/c I need something that can cut
| thicker wood sometimes and don't want to deal with blades
| breaking and popping off a cheap saw.
| gibspaulding wrote:
| I recently inherited a much nicer table saw than the second
| hand Harbor Freight one I had before, and it was quite a
| revelation how much easier it was to get good results with it
| and how much safer it feels to use. I'd definitely agree on
| that one.
|
| The other category where I like to spend more is tools I hate
| to use. Some things I have specifically for jobs that suck
| and anything that makes those jobs easier is worth it in my
| mind. I have a nice drain snake, and the most expensive
| toilet plunger I could find for this reason.
| roflyear wrote:
| A good table saw basically does the project for you, it is
| amazing.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| Don't beware of, just know your problem. You can and absolutely
| should buy bargain bin tools for emergency circumstances, or for
| rapid _disassembly_ jobs, or in one-off situations, or simply as
| backups if your expensive tools are unavailable.
| throwaway0x7E6 wrote:
| all adjustable wrenches are crap
|
| save yourself a ton of frustration and buy a set of harbor
| freight wrenches
| 83 wrote:
| _Looking more closely, the slider screw has a pitch of
| approximately 0.545 "/rev and a diameter of 0.25", for a helix
| angle of 34deg. This means that less than half of the slider
| force is actually used to turn the screw, undermining any force
| gain. That is, the jaw force is less than is applied to the
| slider due to the screw's inefficiency as over half of the
| applied force is lost pushing against the screw's supports._
|
| Is that accurate that over half the force is lost? As the helix
| angle gets lower wouldn't more force be transferred to the screw
| instead of the supports? I'm no mechanical engineer but my gut
| says 45 degrees would be the point where forces are balanced
| between screw and support and as the helix angle decreased (to 34
| degrees for example) more than half the force would be applied to
| the screw.
| snovv_crash wrote:
| Consider the friction coefficient between the two parts. If it
| slid perfectly, ie. both were made of greased teflon, then at
| 30 degrees half would be in the correct direction - sin30deg =
| 0.5
|
| However adding friction makes it much worse. Unlubricated steel
| on steel is really bad.
| roflyear wrote:
| This goes for everything:
|
| - Know someone who likes books? Buy them good books!
|
| - Know someone who likes coffee? Buy them specialty coffee!
|
| etc.. I never saw the point in "oh they love painting, I'll get
| them these super cheap paints" or whatever.
| pasttense01 wrote:
| The article is talking about a tool made by Crescent which was
| the original brand name making adjustable wrenches. In fact
| traditionally a few decades ago any of these adjustable wrenches
| were called a crescent wrench no matter who the manufacturer was.
| Like Craftsmen tools another example of the decline of tool
| brands from quality to junk.
|
| https://jamestowngazette.com/crescent-tool-company/
| [deleted]
| Melatonic wrote:
| Knippex "Pliers" are still far superior to this. They blew my
| mind when I first used them. I dont use normal wrenches at all
| anymore - the knippex just grip stuff so much more perfectly and
| with less chance of rounding and you can "ratchet" around the
| bolt even though they are open ended.
| edelans wrote:
| Same. I first saw them in the hands of a plumber doing some
| work at home. I bought a pair the same day. It's this kind of
| tool that just makes me happy when I have an occasion to use
| it.
| emmelaich wrote:
| I was wonder what these were so had a look.
|
| Found: in Australia we call them multigrips and I've got a few!
| jansan wrote:
| If you are looking for an excellent ratchet that compliments
| the Knippex Pliers, take a look at Proxxon ratchet sets. They
| are a pleasure to work with and come in a nice metal case.
| JoeyBananas wrote:
| this is not bargain brand, it's more of a gimmick tool (costs
| more than harbor freight)
| soared wrote:
| The shake weight of tools perhaps.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| I haven't yet run across an adjustable wrench that was worth a
| shit. Even old (notionally decent?) Crescent ones.
|
| The jaws invariably splay when you apply force, even if you're
| using them correctly. I've come to the conclusion that it's just
| intrinsic to having a moving jaw that moves easily enough to be
| useful.
|
| At this point, if I expect to need the wrench ever again (or need
| to reuse the fastener), I'll just buy a proper wrench for it. The
| couple of Crescent wrenches I keep are for emergencies and
| plumbing (because I don't have combo wrenches that big and do it
| infrequently), nothing more.
|
| Vise-grips? Another tool that I find is more apt to round
| something than grip it properly. If I'm reaching for them, I
| figure I'm already so dicked that I'm unlikely to make it worse.
| Once in a while they get me out of an otherwise unavoidable trip
| to the hardware store.
| gorbypark wrote:
| Knipex makes some decent adjustable wrenches (not crescent
| style, though). Their Pliers Wrench line has an adjustment
| mechanism like a channel lock plier, but then has a jaw that's
| on a cam mechanism to keep the two jaws parallel. One direction
| they're just as good as a crescent wrench, but in the other
| direction it "self tightens" and you can really reef on it. The
| cam mechanism allows you to loosen your grip and there's just
| enough room for a bolt head/nut to spin around, so it's almost
| like having a ratchet, too. Only downsides are price and they
| are not super low profile so you need a bit of room to turn in.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| I've heard a lot of recommendations for Knipex. I might yet
| break down and buy one of those even if it is a little bulky.
| patja wrote:
| I have 4 of these Knipex adjustable pliers. I do like them
| but find that getting them set just right for the task at
| hand is a bit fiddly. Seems like I am always setting it one
| setting too loose or too tight.
|
| The Knipex product that I love is their automatic wire
| stripper.
| ls15 wrote:
| > getting them set just right for the task at hand is a
| bit fiddly
|
| I know what you mean, but if I use the bolt that I want
| to loosen or tighten as a stopper, and then latch into
| the next bigger position, I think I never miss the right
| setting.
| joshu wrote:
| A+ plus plus. A valuable part of my toolkit, would buy
| again.
| ls15 wrote:
| The mini version isn't bulky:
|
| https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-
| pump...
|
| A thing of beauty
| carterschonwald wrote:
| love it
| teachrdan wrote:
| I love the form factor of this guy. But is it honestly
| used for anything except smoking joints?
| phil21 wrote:
| Yes, it's quite useful around the house. Anything that
| isn't cranked on tight or corroded typically is fine.
| This is my go-to for most chores involving a wrench.
|
| The XS is useful even as a small tool in a carry-on. I've
| busted mine (and it's Cobra XS equivalent which is
| probably more useful on a job site) out in a datacenter,
| etc. to get a small job done. You can more or less crank
| on them with as much strength as you can and they won't
| break or slip.
|
| I bought it as a laugh when I found one 50% off and ended
| up purchasing a dozen or so as Christmas gifts for my ops
| staff that year. Fits in the watch pocket of your jeans
| comfortably, so it's handy to just have on you all day
| especially if going up and down ladders.
|
| It won't replace a full toolset for a serious job - but
| as a "just in case" pair for little quick jobs they are
| unexpectedly useful.
|
| I then ended up with a collection of around 20 various
| Knipex tools over the years since they simply are so much
| better than anything else I've found. Their precision
| nippers are the bees knees for terminating cat5/6 into
| patch panels, for example.
|
| Definitely pick up a "baby wrench" if you have an excuse
| to!
| ls15 wrote:
| You must be talking about the xs version:
|
| https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-
| pump...
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| I've got the XS which is even smaller, and has the
| distinction of being the only wrench I carry with me on
| MTB/hiking trips, basically an EDC item in the pouch of
| my backpack:
|
| https://www.knipex-tools.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-
| wate...
|
| The mini has still got the pushbutton and dual locking
| tabs, the XS is more compact, much lighter, and is
| slightly more complicated to use, but can be used one-
| handed.
|
| It's fixed a number of problems with skis, bikes, and
| tents that you might not expect of its size, it will do
| properly maintained axle nuts and other large fasteners
| (it prefers 12mm and less, where most wrenches suck, but
| can do up to 18mm or 3/4"). I carry the 10" pliers wrench
| in my work tool bag for working on hydraulics,
| pneumatics, and it's definitely one of my favorite tools,
| unlike the accursed worm-gear Crescent wrenches...
| ls15 wrote:
| Nice EDC item. I sometimes use the mini one-handed too,
| but that requires all fingers and must look awkward.
| ce4 wrote:
| Seconded. I have one and a lot of other Knipex tools, the
| Cobra adjustable pliers being the most loved one. My oldest
| got handed down from my Dad and is 40 years old, love the
| W-Germany imprint:-)
| ThePowerOfFuet wrote:
| My very limited experience with Knipex has me wanting to buy
| their stuff in the future.
| martyvis wrote:
| I just bought two of their Cobra channel lock / water pump
| pliers, an electrician's plier and wire cutters. I decided
| at 59 I am tired of using rubbish tools - even for DIY
| duties. I got the trigger from here
| https://youtu.be/wcs2elc0LsU?t=538
| lbhdc wrote:
| I feel like every crescent wrench I have tried wrecks
| fasteners. A good set of combo wrenches are so much nicer to
| work with.
| D13Fd wrote:
| Here is an adjustable wrench that's pretty good:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072LWP3Y3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...
|
| Honestly I love this thing. It is precisely manufactured, turns
| smoothly, and grips well. I use it mostly for sink and plumbing
| repairs around the house, but I've also used it on bikes and
| other things. It's really nice for that because the small size
| means it fits in places that would otherwise be hard to manage.
| kitd wrote:
| Water-pump pliers are adjustable and don't suffer from splay.
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| > I haven't yet run across an adjustable wrench that was worth
| a shit. Even old (notionally decent?) Crescent ones.
|
| I hate them with a passion and have no much need as I've got
| pretty much tools of every sizes but... I like plier wrenches.
|
| I've got many plier wrenches and even the cheap ones do nearly
| every single job I can think of better than an adjustable
| wrench.
| mindslight wrote:
| Adjustable wrenches have their uses, but applying the most
| torque possible is not one of them. If you're limited to buying
| one type of wrench and you're dealing with small fasteners,
| you're better off with a set of combination wrenches. If I were
| starting over I'd look at the now-common ratcheting ones, but I
| haven't had a chance to try them.
|
| For larger hex things, and for square things, adjustable
| wrenches work fine. They're much nicer on (hex) pipe fittings
| than pipe wrenches.
|
| I find the "adjustable" moniker doesn't really create the best
| expectation of how to use them though, implying that you choose
| the right setting to do the job and then it behaves like a
| fixed wrench. Rather on every use, I back the jaws off slightly
| with the thumb screw, put on the piece, then tighten up while
| it's on the piece. The more torque I need to apply, the more
| deliberate I am about making sure the jaws are snug before
| doing so.
|
| Vise grips are for when you would otherwise use pliers, and
| want them to latch.
| johnwalkr wrote:
| I (and apparently many others) came here to knipex plier
| wrenches. The have a spring-loaded indent that keeps the
| adjustment where you need it, tighten on the fastener in one
| direction, and open enough to act as a ratchet in the other
| direction. In certain cases they are actually less likely to
| round off a fastener than a non-adjustable wrench. This[1]
| video gives a good overview.
|
| [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGb4WF4e8YQ
| hprotagonist wrote:
| knipex makes a good one. And they're the exception that proves
| the rule.
|
| https://www.knipex.com/products/pipe-wrenches-and-water-pump...
| staticautomatic wrote:
| I wonder if you could have one with a device like a rock
| climbing cam that tightens the more force you put on it.
| twblalock wrote:
| Adjustable wrenches exist for situations where you don't have
| the proper size on hand. They are not intended to be used for
| everything. But when you need one, few other tools will
| suffice.
|
| A lot of people don't know that there is a correct direction to
| turn these wrenches (and Channel Locks, and pipe wrenches).
| Older Crescent models had an arrow engraved on the handle to
| show this. You turn the wrench with the smaller jaw leading
| into the turn. This helps prevent slipping by putting pressure
| on the mechanism, which makes it harder for the adjusting screw
| to move.
| cptskippy wrote:
| > Adjustable wrenches exist for situations where you don't
| have the proper size on hand.
|
| I would say convenience and use case are just as important. A
| crescent wrench is non marring unlike alligator jaws or vise
| grips. It's also perfectly fine for low torque applications.
| It isn't for torquing lug nuts.
|
| I have a wonderful wrench and socket set in standard and
| metric measures. It's in a nice case on a shelf in my garage.
| My crescent wrenches are hanging 5 feet away on a pegboard.
|
| I needed to loosen an RP-SMA connector the other day. What
| size is that nut? Do I want to break out my wrenches and
| fiddle? Nope, the nut is only just beyond finger tight so two
| crescent wrenches and 5 seconds to get it off.
| SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
| Any 5/16" wrench for loosening. For tightening, ideally the
| appropriate torque wrench for the particular connector
| (material & grade) should be used.
|
| https://www.centricrf.com/torque-wrenches/sma-torque-
| wrenche...
|
| Or other stores. RF connectors should be torqued to a
| specified torque listed on their data sheet. Improper
| torque can cause damage. Usually for equipment using SMA
| connectors this isn't a big deal (just replace the
| connector, they're cheap and the torque wrenches are
| expensive), but for the really high frequency stuff like
| 1.85mm connectors the connector itself is $70-300 so
| spending $100-400 on a torque wrench is reasonable.
| [deleted]
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| Amazon is heavily promoting a tool that (as near as I can
| figure out) is a combination adjustable wrench and vise-grips,
| thus offering you two options for destroying fastener heads in
| one convenient tool.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| Vice-grip do make some less-bad versions specifically for not
| spinning/rounding off nuts, like this one:
| https://www.mcmaster.com/vise-grips/locking-pliers-for-
| round...
| prova_modena wrote:
| The best quality traditional style adjustable wrenches I am
| aware of are made by Bahco. They are made with tighter
| tolerances than typical Home Depot grade stuff, which reduces
| slipping and damage caused by jaw movement.
|
| https://www.bahco.com/int_en/products/wrenches/adjustable-wr...
|
| However, I prefer the Knipex pliers wrenches mentioned by other
| commenters. They are also useful for many other gripping,
| pressing and bending tasks that the traditional adjustables
| cannot do.
|
| Edit: For vise grip type tools, Grip-On is the best
| value/quality. They have a slightly different release mechanism
| than the Vise-Grip branded tools that improves the ergonomics
| of the tool significantly. They are (or were last time I
| checked) relabeled by some high end tool brands like Snap-on.
| For the most part, I consider them an inherently destructive
| but sometimes necessary tool that will mess up a fastener.
| However there are a wide variety of jaw styles (and removable
| covers) available that can mitigate this, depending on the
| task.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| Whoa. I only knew of Bahco as a maker of saws and assorted
| woodworking tools. You just opened my eyes to the range of
| things they make. I'm going to have to get one of those if I
| don't go the Knipex route. Thank you!
| xorcist wrote:
| They not only make adjustable wrenches, they literally
| invented them (at least their modern form):
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_spanner
| nicoburns wrote:
| I second the recommendation for Bahco. I bought one of their
| adjustable wrenches on the basis that it would last, and I
| have no regrets: it's an incredibly well made tool.
|
| For other options, there is a youtube video comparing
| different adjustable wrenches for strength
| (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyOd05PUix4). The Bahco did
| indeed do well, although it was not the very best the tested.
| akramer wrote:
| Knipex Pliers Wrench is what you're looking for. They end up
| squeezing hard, unlike a crescent wrench, and do not round off
| fasteners as easily.
| mitthrowaway2 wrote:
| > haven't yet run across an adjustable wrench that was worth a
| shit.
|
| I found some truly excellent ones at hardware stores in Japan.
| For some reason they don't sell them elsewhere.
| PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
| 30 minutes, just used my vise-grips to grab and turn a
| plastic&felt chair leg end that was stuck on the bottom of the
| leg. Perfect tool when you need to grab it, pull it and don't
| care if it is damaged in the process.
| otikik wrote:
| Here's mine. It has a wheel on the side. So it needs two hands.
|
| https://www.bellota.com/es-es/para-el-taller/herramienta-uni...
|
| It's still as solid as the day I bought it. All others I have
| seen grow loose with use.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-12-20 23:01 UTC)