[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Has anyone here turned around their life in ...
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Ask HN: Has anyone here turned around their life in their 40s?
I know the best of my life is behind me, but I need help salvaging
what's left of it. I've been meaning to ask for help for a couple
of years now, but only now got around to it after being scared by
my first real suicidal ideation a few nights ago. HN is probably
not a suitable platform for this, but /r/advice seems to be not
very active and I can't post on /adv/ due to some IP range ban.
There are no mental health facilities in the small town where I
live. I let my professional network decay and die, and there is
literally nowhere else I can get any kind of useful, actionable
advice. I'm a 43-years-old single guy, NEET for the past decade. I
got my Master's in the US in the late 2000s and was gainfully
employed there for a few years (NOT in my field of education; long
story) until I had to return to my home country to take care of my
ailing father. He passed on within a year of my return, leaving my
family with a financial mess, and his death took a lot out of me. I
still obviously miss him, but in wallowing in depression and self-
pity, I let the prime of my life pass me by. As I stand, I have no
current skills related to either my education (MEng) or my previous
work experience (BI Reporting/Analytics). I don't have
ideas/skills/network for entrepreneurship. I had all the desires
of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I
mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late for the first few. Every
night I promise myself to do/be better tomorrow and somehow get
myself to sleep. I was once looked up to, now I'm a pity case and
an example case of how not to throw one's life away. With every
passing day, I am becoming more bitter, angry and disillusioned. I
don't want to live like this anymore, but I don't know how to even
_start_ thinking of ways to get myself out of this hole. Ideally,
I would prefer to go back to the US; not only for the dollars
(they're nice), but also because I actually was happy there. I'd do
all the things that I didn't do enough of because I was focused on
saving money and because I thought that there would always be time
for them when I was more stable/settled. The good: No diseases
AFAIK, no vices at all other than severe procrastination and a
masterful ability to lie to myself. I have ~US$25k-equivalent in
salary savings from a decade ago. Sorry if the above text is
rambling and not very cohesive. I've probably also skipped over
some useful information I should have provided. Please do ask. I'll
take some time reflecting on your replies and then respond. Thank
you.
Author : Deutscher
Score : 972 points
Date : 2022-12-19 14:11 UTC (8 hours ago)
| dmichulke wrote:
| I have improved my life greatly a few years earlier and it's very
| much feasible.
|
| I'd recommend seeing a behavioral therapist (because it's the
| things you _do_ that matter in the long-term).
|
| I also started going to a gym, improve my social life, make an
| effort to have friends, identify other people's expectation and
| say no when they don't fit yours, ...
|
| If you're living in a small village, chances are your living
| close to your family and sometimes your family is negatively
| affecting your well-being, that might be why you were happy in
| the US.
|
| On the pro side: It sounds you have a lot of time and I suggest
| to start right away with reading and sports:
|
| - No more mr. nice guy
|
| - When i say no, I feel guilty
|
| - Models
|
| If you manage to run / do sports 15-45 mins per day (start
| slowly) you'll start thinking clearer again.
|
| Also, taking care of your health and body is generally a good
| start (food, weight, movement), the better you look the easier it
| is to chat up people of any sex and the more you'll be respected.
|
| All the best
| cindarin wrote:
| For all the "just go to therapy", what's the best way for me to
| accept your payment for this? Paypal? venmo? ko-fi?
| its_hertz wrote:
| I just started reading Lighter - Yung Pueblo. He sort of went
| through exactly the same thing + drugs. I think reading it could
| be a really good inspiration and advices source.
| ohyes wrote:
| I'm sorry life hasn't gone the way you wanted it. Unfortunately
| almost no one's life does, this is just a fact of life. Many
| things that seems to be promised or "owed" us turn out to not be,
| or to be struggles. Depression is very real, and really does
| require professional help sometimes to get out of it. So I would
| suggest getting help if you can afford it.
|
| On the bright side, your life is far from over, 43 is still
| plenty young enough to have meaningful relationships and build a
| career if you want to, it just requires that you out yourself in
| the correct situations repeatedly. You can still get married and
| have children if you want, you're definitely not that old. Many
| people move on to their second marriage at your age.
|
| I would suggest, that rather than promising yourself radical
| change each night, promise yourself one small change that you'll
| make tomorrow. Just a single thing that will make your life
| better. It can be as simple as going for a walk or cleaning a
| single room. Do it first thing so you don't procrastinate on it
| all day, banking an accomplishment each day is small and easy,
| but when you look back at a month of that you'll have
| accomplished a lot and you'll start to have a habit of doing
| things.
| carbonwithasoul wrote:
| I know how you feel because I believe that I've been through the
| same amount of hardship. First of all, you're not alone, so get
| help. Second of all, you can learn to use the emotions you feel
| and use them to your benefit. It's possible to transmute these by
| using the energy and redirect it onto what you'd like to achieve.
| This can be a extremely powerful catalyst. Try it. What you focus
| on will create the momentum and goal you move towards. Focus on
| what you want or where you want to be.
| larkinnaire wrote:
| You're not alone -- a lot of this resonates with me, but I (also
| in my 40s) might be a little further along in my journey and have
| a few more resources to draw on. But I feel this.
|
| The most important thing: therapy. Don't spend too much time
| finding a therapist -- take the first one with an opening. If you
| don't get along with them, ask for a referral or use a method
| discussed in other comments. But the important thing is to start.
| Many therapists will do video calls now. Medication can also be
| effective.
|
| Some more good stuff about your life: * You're not too old for
| marriage or even kids. Guys are lucky in that respect -- we have
| an easier time finding partners and having kids when we're older.
| * You took an important step: you posted this question. I am
| terrified to do any such thing about my own problems, so I
| respect you a lot for it. * You had a network before, and
| professional networks are more resilient than you think. If a co-
| worker from 10 years ago emailed me out of the blue, I'd be happy
| to talk to them. I think you'd be happy to talk to your old
| colleagues, so why the assumption that they wouldn't respond to
| you? That's an example of catastrophizing thinking. A therapist
| can help you with that better than HN randos...but still, asking
| HN randos is a good step to take! * It's not a given that the
| best of your life is behind you. Every part of your life can be
| the prime of your life if you value the things that part of your
| life has to offer.
|
| Good luck, friend.
| jmartrican wrote:
| Two things come to mind that help me get through tough times.
|
| 1) Having purpose helps keep my sanity. But how do we define
| purpose. In a world with a certain percentage of sociopaths and
| self interested people, I find purpose in just being a decent
| human. I find purpose in small things, in being one of the good
| guys that does not actively hurt society and others. This might
| be running an errand for a friend or family. Paying my taxes.
| Selecting which products to buy (help society by choosing the
| winning products that survive and which die out). Abiding by
| laws. I do not need to solve world peace to feel like I am living
| purposeful life.
|
| 2) Somewhere on the Internet I saw a story about an elderly man
| who was real happy or something like that. When a man asked him
| how does he stay so happy in old age, he answered that he has a
| strong belief that his best days are always ahead of him. How can
| that be? If you are retired how can your best days be ahead of
| you. I dont know really, but if you consider my first point, and
| also treat it as something you strive for. Your best days might
| be being a decent friend, putting your finances in order,
| cleaning the sidewalk in your neighborhood, volunteering...
| again, does not have to be solving world peace. But what is
| important is the mindset that you always have much more to give,
| even in old age.
| gibolt wrote:
| One good place to start might be the 10 minute rule. For anything
| you've been procrastinating on, start doing a small effort
| towards it with 10 minutes. It is only 10 minutes.
|
| Sit down and start updating your resume. Message some recruiters
| on LinkedIn. Study up standard tools for the industry you want to
| hop back into.
|
| The hard part is outlook, but a little bit of forward progress
| can hopefully start shifting that.
| jurassic wrote:
| Lots of good advice in this thread. Only thing I would say is:
| don't rule out the wife and kids if that is what you want. As a
| man, you are not on the same biological clock as women and many
| men have had families in life's second act.
| ogou wrote:
| Yes. I turned my life around at 43. Single, obsolete tech skills,
| lots of debt, personal issues. Began with taking a genuine
| inventory of my life and how I function, not just how I felt. I
| picked a constructive and structured approach to that, which
| looked a lot like CBT therapy but was something else.
|
| It was a life reset, clearing out all the baggage. It was very
| difficult but incremental and genuine over time.
|
| After the personal part, I levelled up my tech with some
| commercial online courses. When I began the career pivot, there
| was a lot of ageism and ghosting. Eventually I got a foothold and
| was on my way.
|
| As for the family and relationships, I can tell you that I got a
| lot of attention from women once I made all those changes. There
| are so many looking for someone who is at least trying to handle
| their lives. I hear it all the time. Even being older, I get
| curious early 30s women who want families.
|
| Now in my early 50s, my life is so much better. In no way do I
| feel my best days are behind me.
| bogeholm wrote:
| Kudos buddy!
| mdtancsa wrote:
| Very nice to hear! Way to go!!
| davidjhall wrote:
| What commercial classes did you take to level up? Were they
| Coursera, Udacity or university classes?
| ogou wrote:
| I was trying to learn bankable React, but ended up learning
| much more. Udacity for the first Typescript and React
| courses, but they weren't made very well. I started ( _gasp_
| ) reading the documentation for many libraries and followed a
| few rabbit holes. A couple of months completing official
| tutorials I got lost and frustrated.
|
| What put me over the top was a Frontend Masters subscription.
| By far the best value and flat monthly rate for all. Superior
| video courses for React/Typescript, but also advanced courses
| lower in the stack for Node, MongoDb, and an advanced
| javascript course. They have others I want to go back to,
| like web audio. I also took the dev interview and algorithm
| testing courses, which were super helpful.
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| This is the way. Congrats bud.
| spacemadness wrote:
| Thanks for sharing that for the OP. The narratives we create in
| our minds to explain the world can be a huge source of
| suffering and act as giant barriers to any improvements we can
| make. "It's too late because of X." "The best years are behind
| me since I reached 40." etc. I know this from experience in
| battling my own demons. Therapy can be a huge help here if OP
| can find the right therapist.
| vegabook wrote:
| I'm 52. My life was a total mess, and I'm talking messed up
| relationships with my family, smoking like a chimney, debts,
| drinking and more . I cannot agree more that it is not the
| destination that gets you out of it, it's the courage to start
| the journey. Once you face the realities, deeply own them, and
| then genuinely change your day-to-day behaviour, things
| miraculously start happening even before you've cleared out all
| the problems. IE: your point about someone showing genuine
| honesty and courage in trying to get a grip on their lives.
| People really respond to that.
|
| Personally, I'm lucky that throughout the above, I did keep up
| on technology. But another discipline I had to learn was not to
| give into my natural curiosity to try to learn everything that
| was interesting to me (Ocaml, Vulkan, Elixir, Yggdrasil
| Network, Rust, IOT, Matrix Protocol, Blender etc etc etc) all
| at the same time, but to stick to one or two and really
| persevere on them (I chose Rust). IE stop dreaming and giving
| in to curiosity, and learn one or two hard skills really well.
| T-shaped skills basically. No reason not to stay curious -
| helps you decide on the next vertical bar in the T. But don't
| waste too much time on breadth - also focus on depth so that at
| your later age, you'll still feel high confidence in yourself
| in this area even against the younger guns.
| robertlagrant wrote:
| > IE stop dreaming and giving in to curiosity, and learn one
| or two hard skills really well. T-shaped skills basically. No
| reason not to stay curious - helps you decide on the next
| vertical bar in the T. But don't waste too much time on
| breadth - also focus on depth so that at your later age,
| you'll still feel high confidence in yourself in this area
| even against the younger guns.
|
| This is exactly it. Finding something on which you can speak
| with authority is extremely valuable. Every third graduate
| coming out of university has been taught to sound confident
| from day 1. You can provide substance.
| tigeroil wrote:
| The part about attention from women is very, very true.
|
| Obviously relationships are hardly the only thing that matters
| in life, but it amazes me how much more attention I get from
| women since I got my life together. Turns out a man who's
| figured things out and is doing reasonably well is very
| attractive.
| rchaud wrote:
| The eyes never lie. Neither does body language; posture, tone
| of voice, conversational flow. All of those things change for
| the better when a person is genuinely content and secure with
| who and what they are.
| loa_in_ wrote:
| I guess it makes sense that the best outward facing thing
| is a minimum viable working thing. All said with all the
| things that one can't see in others, in mind.
| docmars wrote:
| I think for me, the hardest part is reconciling two things:
| 1) maybe being _too content_ or satisfied with life's
| mundanity -- the idea of being settled down and spending
| most of my free time at home with my dog, playing video
| games, reading news, watching interesting videos, and
| occasionally reading a good book -- with the occasional
| social gathering with friends, whether that's hosting a
| small party, or going to a fun local festival or event, and
| 2) finding a woman who is okay with what could be
| considered a relatively "boring" lifestyle. Most I end up
| meeting and dating are stir-crazy, I find later.
|
| I obviously enjoy getting out of the house, but it's
| seldom. I go on hikes, explore local events a small few
| times a year, and play in a recreational volleyball league
| once or twice per year in seasons.
|
| Despite all of this, I once had a woman tell me she
| "doesn't want to live on the couch" in response to my
| overall sedentary lifestyle. That's completely valid of her
| to think that, but I for one don't mind how much time I
| spend at home engaging with mostly solitary hobbies while
| I'm not working. I'm also pretty stubborn and unmotivated
| despite my overall contentment and satisfaction with life.
|
| I want to find a wife who is content with a mostly simple,
| settled life with a little adventure sprinkled in between,
| but not so much I start to feel home sick, and it doesn't
| take much. XD
| rrgok wrote:
| This is me, this is me. Ahah. But, I'm not sure I'm
| looking for a wife though. it is draining having a
| partner/relationship for me. After a while, I just go
| silent and kinda avoid communication. I'm in my 30s,
| sometime I'm scared to be old and alone. I can't make my
| mind up. The fact is that I mostly like doing my hobbies
| alone. This makes difficult for me to have companionship.
| Even eating, I prefer to do it alone.
|
| May I ask your age bracket?
| docmars wrote:
| Ah yes! Sorry, I should have mentioned that. I am in my
| early 30's, dated a few women in my late 20's after a
| long break from dating, and was ultimately not
| successful. I am reasonably attractive/average, and can
| strike up a fun conversation, though I struggle with my
| longer-term relationships because I don't often have a
| lot new to share in life, and I love listening to other
| people's lives, as much as they're willing to share. I
| can always ask great follow-up questions and keep the
| conversation going smoothly -- but I mention all this
| because it's certainly a core insecurity I have, that
| people may think I am not sharing enough with them
| because my life is so simple, and my interests are niche
| enough that I feel rude boring people to death about
| programming and gaming. Outside of that, I love politics,
| but that's a tricky topic.
|
| I can relate a lot with what you said. I think deep down,
| I have a sincere desire to be married and (maybe) have
| children. The children part feels draining to me just
| thinking about it because I cherish my alone time and
| hobbies SO much. I know if I meet someone who respects my
| hobbies and alone time without any drama around it, that
| woman and I would be a very happy couple.
|
| I'm with you though: I mostly prefer to engage with what
| I love doing alone, including eating. I will go out to
| eat with friends on occasion, or cook a tasty meal for
| friends hanging out at my house, but I generally have the
| luxury of solitude. One of by biggest fears is being
| bound to a regular interval of social activity, so if
| anyone ever tells me "We should do thing X or Y every
| Tuesday!", I panic, and soften the request with: "I may
| not be able to every week, but I'd love to from time to
| time. Let's figure out a day that works next week!" and
| go from there. Nobody is entitled to your time that
| regularly, especially as we get older and more committed
| to our responsibilities.
|
| Finally I'll say, if you do decide to "get into the game"
| again with dating, just be upfront with whomever your
| partner is about your habits and preferences. It's hard
| not to feel like an asshole about it, but there are
| tactful, kind ways to strike compromise and understanding
| with those you love. When communicated as a deep need of
| your own, rather than an indictment against their social
| wishes, it can go a long way. Not everyone will agree or
| be amenable to that, but they also don't exist to shape
| your calendar or lifestyle. Another tip for early
| relationships, if you find there is tension around how
| much time you spend together, saying something like: "You
| know, I love spending time with you, but it's going to
| take some time for me to adjust to dating again. I've
| spent the last 10-20 years of my life comfortable being
| alone and chasing after my life without a partner this
| whole time. Thanks for being patient with me as we both
| adjust to this awesome new relationship!"
|
| It's okay to expect others to adapt to your relatively
| non-intrusive ways of living. On the flip side, if you
| desire companionship with others, and thusly, a romantic
| relationship, _some_ compromise will be necessary, but
| having secure, level-headed conversations about this with
| people is 100% the key. The empathy will flow both ways.
| I recommend reading "Attached" by Amir Levine for more
| insight on secure conversations with anxious or avoidant
| people.
|
| "I just really need (and enjoy) being alone or being able
| to enjoy my interests without others interacting with me
| a lot of the time, and I know you love hanging out doing
| X and Y, and I love spending time with you whenever we're
| both feeling it, so let's play it by ear!"
|
| Anyway, thanks for reading my novel. I hope this helps.
| It's encouraging to meet another person who feels the
| struggle between contentedness in solitude and our need
| for relationship.
| abnercoimbre wrote:
| I never thought I'd say these words but -- I feel seen, I
| feel heard. I'm more into going to parties but I guard my
| alone time as a sacred duty.
|
| To add my own twist to both of your stories: I just had
| an amazing date yesterday with someone who thinks like
| us. Of course it's only been one date so I could be
| misunderstanding them.
|
| If both parties value their alone time it means
| scheduling time together is drastically simplified; you
| both do it only after each other's batteries are
| recharged, and you won't feel bad if you say no to a
| meetup :)
| docmars wrote:
| Wow, good luck! Hope the dates continue going well, but I
| bet it's refreshing to be on the same page about that.
| It's a highly underrated quality for both people to
| respect each other's time.
|
| Too many go into relationship assuming all of their time
| will be consumed on each other. In the honeymoon phase,
| maybe; but not for long after that.
|
| Best wishes!
| soheil wrote:
| Great outlook. This is literally true though with modern
| medicine and standard of living at many countries.
|
| If you take care of yourself, stay fit, fix your brain life
| only gets better. If you're a pissed off 25 year who can't get
| laid on a constant basis vs a contend 50 year old who has
| sorted their life, I'd take the latter any day of the week.
| flybrand wrote:
| We can't control if we find the right person - so control the
| things we can. Creating that confidence leads to a more
| confident exterior which is attractive to others!
| mbg721 wrote:
| In addition to the other mental-health maintenance suggestions,
| you'll get confidence back once career things start to go right,
| but it may take a little while. I would suggest doing some
| practice-interviews before you do real ones (or practice-
| customers for entrepreneurship), so that you can work the hiccups
| out of the way without missing out on anything. "Fake it 'til you
| make it" is a real thing, especially in the US, and so are
| positive-feedback loops. It's a lot easier to work on other parts
| of life once income is sorted out.
| lnsru wrote:
| If you are in/around Munich let's have a beer/coffee. Xmas time
| was often very uncomfortable for me trying sort my life out. My
| email is in my profile.
| collinvandyck76 wrote:
| OP, I feeel the same way a lot of time. I focused on a narrow set
| of things into my 40s and life just passed me by almost without
| me noticing it until now. Sometimes I'll wake up at 3AM panicking
| that i'm blowing it. Just wanted to say that you're not alone,
| and I'm rooting for you to get the help you need.
| Verissimus wrote:
| I will tell you this, the best days are behind you only if you
| believe them to be. I know that sounds cliche but is honestly
| true. You have plenty of time left for all of the things you want
| to do. Here is where I might start theoretically if I was in your
| shoes.
|
| 1. Find yourself something social, a book club, chess club,
| anything that you can focus on and be around others. Humans are
| social animals this will help you get friends and network. If you
| can find something related to any interests you have even better.
| The internet != social interaction... period. There is no emoji
| which replaces a legitimate smile.
|
| 2. When or if you have the means do seek help but be picky about
| who you choose.
|
| 3. If you cant work on external circumstances work on yourself
| and how you respond to them. Read, study and examine yourself and
| the way you operate and then if you are unhappy take steps to
| change.
|
| 4. Journal daily, nothing profound just feelings and thoughts.
| Over time you will begin to see patterns in the way you act. This
| will help you see triggers and let you focus on developing better
| patterns in your life.
|
| I myself am 43, this has worked for me. I am a practicing Stoic.
| Most of what I am saying comes from this philosophy. IT IS NOT
| FOR EVERYONE though and I am just a guy behind a comment on the
| internet so always be suspicious.
|
| I wish you well my friend and I do hope you do great things.
| Saif177 wrote:
| I'm feeling this way at 36 and a 12 year career failing up with
| startups and VC finally catching up me. I'm broke and living at
| my parents house trying to rebuild while fielding lots of "I told
| you so" outbursts from family. It's weird how your investors will
| care less about failed investments than your own family does
| haha.
|
| Anyway, how do broke Founders afford therapy?
| mkl95 wrote:
| > I'm a 43-years-old single guy, NEET for the past decade. I got
| my Master's in the US in the late 2000s and was gainfully
| employed there for a few years
|
| Unless your post is missing some major red flag, your experience
| should make finding a job relatively easy anywhere in the globe.
|
| My personal advice is that you build your way back up with a job
| that does not push you to your limits.
| [deleted]
| ttcbj wrote:
| I agree on the therapist. Some are better than others, plan to
| try a few before settling on one.
|
| The other thing I'd suggest is begin exercising regularly.
| Jogging is great because it only requires shoes, and you can do
| it almost anywhere. It's something you can do for yourself that
| will definitely make you better off in the long run. You can tell
| yourself: "even if all my other plans fall through, if I keep up
| this exercise, I will be better off in a year than I am now."
|
| Regarding the wife and kids and career angle, speaking as someone
| who has all that, keep in mind that they open some doors but
| close others. I can't hike the pacific crest trail, or sail
| around the world. Honestly, it's really hard for me to get away
| for a few days to do something exclusively for myself, and if I
| do I feel guilty about it. If the wife and kids don't happen for
| you, keep in mind that that also yields a freedom to explore
| alternatives which will not be possible if they do.
| mtgx wrote:
| ta2934983734 wrote:
| Throwaway account
|
| I am turning my life around and I am 46. I have taken the first
| steps to move away from the IT industry and my golden handcuffs -
| both of which I loathe.
|
| I have mended the relationship to my wife - and mending it with
| my kids. All of which I love. A single signature away from
| divorce was turned around into a fruitful partnership.
|
| I have left the big city in favour of rural life. The air is
| clean. The world is silent. My mind is calmer.
|
| It is hard. Financially, physically and emotionally. But chopping
| wood at 6AM in a snow clad landscape, while the sun is coming up,
| is bliss. I am healing.
|
| I have no idea about what I'm doing. I have no education in
| agriculture, no handyman skills, no construction vocabulary,
| can't tell plants apart but I am happier. Nicer to the kids.
| Patient. Bring my wife flowers. Chat with the neighbours who
| think I'm a freak. Laugh at myself. It's good.
|
| It is not too late my friend. There are plenty of women. Many of
| them have kids but no husbands. Some of the kids have no fathers.
| There is a need for you in this world. There are people who need
| your love. There are people you need to love.
|
| And yes, like all the other comments, go see a therapist. You're
| vulnerable. What a perfect start you're off to.
|
| Small steps my friend. Small steps. You've got this mate.
| user3939382 wrote:
| The most important lesson for me in this area is this: I can only
| control today, and not every day is going to be a home run.
|
| For me, trying to commit to big, sweeping, dramatic, permanent
| changes on a dime in my life has always resulted in failure and
| been a mistake. Whereas when I make a decision to make some small
| incremental progress/task today, and worry about re-committing
| tomorrow, tomorrow, I've had success.
|
| Otherwise, I buckle under the burden of my own commitment and in
| failing, come to hate myself more and sabotage myself more.
|
| After more or less discovering this on my own I found St.
| Alphonsus Liguori discussing this in his book Preparation for
| Death. In his case he's discussing the limited issue of the folly
| of making overly-sweeping spiritual commitments, but I find it
| true in the abstract.
|
| * Also: I found that, there's a complicated problem where
| introspection can be immensely valuable, but can also turn into a
| selfish impulse, that sitting around thinking of yourself all day
| can produce no good fruit for yourself, and that getting out and
| doing charity can get you off that track. I was very depressed
| once and started volunteering at a soup kitchen every day. It
| didn't transform me into a happy person but it got my too-
| inwardly-focused thoughts out of a rut.
| mberning wrote:
| It's very true about attempting dramatic and sweeping changes.
| You are sure to disappoint yourself. For me it has been much
| more gratifying to adopt the concept of "no zero days". That
| is, I don't want to have a day where I make zero progress on at
| least one of my goals. It's very hard to "build a new product"
| or "get in shape". It's a lot easier to write one method or do
| 10 minutes of exercise. Even at the end of a tough day, you can
| look at yourself and commit to do something for 10 minutes.
| ndstephens wrote:
| There are many others here (on HN) and elsewhere that are in a
| similar situation of struggle, confusion and doubt. You asking
| this question has triggered almost 600 comments so far that have
| provided feedback, support, and personal or anecdotal evidence
| that it is possible (to turn one's life around). That is now
| hopefully benefiting those who also needed to be a part of this
| conversation (whether they knew it or not).
|
| I wanted to thank you for that. I can say I'm personally
| benefiting from reading much of this. I hope it's helping you as
| well.
| nmaley wrote:
| Don't know how accessible or affordable therapy is where you
| live, but you certainly need someone to talk to.
|
| I had a midlife crisis in my 40's. My career was going nowhere, I
| was trapped in a job I hated. I felt I was wasting my life.
|
| What kept me going was the sense of obligation I had to others
| who depend on me. If you have nothing or no one to whom you owe
| service, then you can change that. Find a partner, or volunteer
| yourself for charitable work. By helping others, you also help
| yourself.
|
| I made a point of enjoying the little things in life. Exercise.
| Walk in the sun. Go fishing. Grow tomatoes. Buy a friend a drink.
| Whatever, just sneak the little pleasures when you can.
|
| I set some goals. Not boring goals like to make money, goals to
| achieve something meaningful, that engaged my interests and
| (modest) abilities.
|
| Things got better. My 50's and 60's were some of the most
| rewarding years of my life. (I'm 69 now). I achieved some things
| I'd never thought I could achieve, just by pluggin' away.
|
| Life is hard. John Stuart Mill wrote that most people have a
| limited capacity for happiness. I think that is true. But the
| strange thing is that by relieving yourself of the obligation to
| feel happy, sometimes it happens anyway.
| chasd00 wrote:
| Step one, see a therapist ( as others have said i'm sure ). Also,
| from reading, it seems like it's the worst of your life that's
| behind you not the best.
|
| Early 30s i had an unsuccessful suicide attempt but managed to
| get things turned around through therapy and family and am very
| happy and content at 46. "It's a long road out of hell" is an
| accurate statement, it's more of a journey and you won't even
| know you've been succesful until a thread like this appears and
| you think back from where you were to where you are and the
| changes you've made.
| Sasha914 wrote:
| I had lost track in the mid 40s, in mid 50s now. I built a model
| to predict SNP and due to some technical error (network
| connection lost), blew up some 470,000$ in 3 hours trading
| futures. Had mortgage, wife/kid to support etc. Was bit rusty on
| java/c++/c#. So took a coupe of udemy courses to brush up. Hit
| gym, started running to get boost. In 2 months landed job at a
| start up in NYC. After that took a contracting position at a
| bank, and now contracting for another bank (both in NYC). Also
| developing code generation from english specifications on the
| side. Still running my SNP model. So its doable. 1. Hit gym, run
| 2. brush up and take up a job Its not too late. All the best.
| transreal wrote:
| I know what you're going through. I am part of a community of men
| who have the tools to help you live a good life. I'm in my 40s
| too and you got here by lots of small beliefs and decisions and
| we help each other change these so we can live in joy and
| gratitude instead of bitterness and disappointment. It's not a
| magic bullet, and it might take time, but all it takes is a
| desire to change and willingness to participate. If you are
| interested email me at the address in my profile. It is never too
| late to live a fulfilling life.
| siculars wrote:
| History is replete with examples of people who have found
| measurable success later in life. I might recommend starting with
| a review of those people and their lives and looking for any
| parallel that may suit you. Let me just leave one example from my
| culture, Rabbi Akiva, one of the most influential and revered
| Rabbi's of all time, that I often think of at times like these:
|
| "When Akiva married the daughter of Ben Kalba Sabua,[a] a wealthy
| citizen of Jerusalem, Akiva was an uneducated shepherd employed
| by Ben Kalba Sabua. His wife's first name is not provided in
| earlier sources, but a later version of the tradition gives it as
| Rachel.[2][6] She stood loyally by her husband during the period
| of his late initiation into rabbinic studies after he was 40
| years of age.[2] and in which Akiva dedicated himself to the
| study of Torah.
|
| A different tradition[6] narrates that at the age of 40, Akiva
| attended the academy of his native town, Lod, presided over by
| Eliezer ben Hurcanus. Hurcanus was a neighbour of Yosef, the
| father of Akiva. The fact that Eliezer was his first teacher, and
| the only one whom Akiva later designates as "rabbi", is of
| importance in settling the date of Akiva's birth. These legends
| set the beginning of his years of study at about 75-80."
|
| -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Akiva
| manholio wrote:
| Hey, I'm your age and just having my first child, we just weren't
| ready before. "The prime of your life" is still ahead of you -
| the next decades will be what you make of them.
|
| Buy nice clothes, find a woman willing to settle down - this will
| be much easier in your home country, where you are still likely a
| catch. In parallel, get up to date to some programming
| language/tech stack. Work 6 months on these issues using the
| money you have, then take your new wife to USA if she wants it
| and get a well paid tech job.
|
| You need to put in the work for all of these issues to get
| solved. Grind, improve yourself, and you will be tired and
| eventually happy. The goals you set - wife, kids, basic life -
| are easy to achieve if only you are in the right state of mind.
| Conversely, if you practice self-defeating thinking, they will
| seem impossible.
| lr4444lr wrote:
| First suggestion, get into therapy. If that does not work or
| cannot be afforded, or will take too long, go somewhere else for
| a while. Anywhere else. Doesn't have to be the US. Doesn't have
| to be your dream job. Every important breakthrough I made in my
| life was precipitated by changing my environment, at least
| temporarily.
| thopkinson wrote:
| Read: How Will You Measure Your Life, by Clayton Christensen
| Man's Search For Meaning, by Victor Frankl
|
| Look at examples of people with purpose and fulfillment in life
| that you admire, ask them what they do.
|
| I recommend finding a faith community. The Church of Jesus Christ
| of Latter-Day Saints has amazing communities all around the world
| where anyone is welcome to visit and will find friendship and
| countless examples and help toward purpose and fulfillment.
| runjake wrote:
| 1. You _need_ to see a therapist. It will help you immensely and
| probably isn 't that expensive. It wasn't for me. With a decent
| therapist, it'll start paying for itself by the second or third
| visit.
|
| 2. Know that the rest of us your age have or are going through
| the same thing as you. I figure it's our mid-life crisis. Maybe
| we need a private support group Discord or something.
|
| Me personally, I've detached from it. I don't ignore it. I
| recognize what it is and evaluate it's lessons, but I don't allow
| it to affect my core state, sometimes that's hard, but I work to
| get back on track as soon as possible.
|
| I got married and had (three kids) late in life. It's not too
| late for you at 43.
|
| 3. Family deaths are a natural part of our lives as we get older.
|
| 4. It sounds like you've had an accomplished life. You've
| accomplished a good education and an advanced-level career.
|
| I've had the same exact thoughts myself, and then one time, I
| listed out all the _many_ accomplishments or neat things I 've
| experienced in my life and I kinda keep that as a reminder.
|
| 5. Know that whether the best of your life is behind you is up to
| you.
|
| Get therapy and get back on track. You need to take action
| _immediately, without delay, not after the holidays_ and find a
| therapist with decent reviews and commit to one visit right now.
|
| _PS: For those even older people reading: you can turn your life
| around at 50, 60, 70, or 80, as well. Life is a gift -- even the
| hard parts, enjoy it, until you can 't._
| haolez wrote:
| A lot of good advise here, especially "go see a therapist", but
| don't underestimate the simple stuff that might get you in this
| mood. Long periods of bad nutrition, sedentarism and sunlight
| deprivation have been linked as causes for depression. Look for
| hacks in your life to help with those while you search for help
| and answers.
| jb-wells wrote:
| rcgorton wrote:
| andinaror wrote:
| Go to your doctor to get some help with how you're feeling. Then
| take one day at a time.
|
| Then maybe think about travelling for a while and remembering how
| to enjoy life.
| marcusverus wrote:
| Having turned my life around, I'm happy to offer a little advice.
|
| You've made the important first step, which is realizing that a
| change needs to be made. The next step is to identify _specific_
| goals (ex: "I want to be married within five years"), which
| should be broken down into sub goals ("I want to go on 15 first
| dates this year"), which should be broken down into actionable
| next steps (1. "Sign up for a dating site today", 2. "Send a
| message on the site today" 3. "find local singles meetups for
| this week").
|
| This might sound abstract, _but it 's necessary to crystalize
| your abstract goals into concrete next steps_. The thought of
| "turning your life around" is so big that it can be oppressive
| and depressing. But "sign up for a dating site today"? You can do
| that. "Send a message on the site today"? You can do that!!
|
| ....but!
|
| Don't fall into the trap of "working on yourself" at the expense
| of taking action toward your goals. You can waste days and years
| planning and thinking about how you will improve _tomorrow_. You
| can spend years reading self-help books about how to improve this
| or that aspect of your life. Take care that "working on
| yourself" does not become just another avenue for procrastination
| and self-deception. All of that thinking and planning is
| important, but it shouldn't come at the expense taking action.
| Make a plan that you can take action on _today_. Take those
| actions _today_. You can improve the plan later.
|
| Also, if you're like me, your self-improvement journey will not
| be without back-sliding. How can you hold yourself accountable?
| How can you remind yourself that these goals are worth the time
| and effort? IMO, the answer is journaling. If you'll dedicate
| 5-10 minutes a day writing. Don't just list out what you did,
| _commune with yourself_. Write about your goals and your
| aspirations. Write about what you 're doing to pursue them, write
| about how you fail and how you can avoid failure. Self-deception
| is hard as hell when you're journaling every day.
|
| Books: Meditations, Atomic Habits, Dopamine Nation
|
| Godspeed, sir!
| m0llusk wrote:
| Waited until my 50s to turn my life around. Keep using gratitude
| and appreciation to steer yourself in the right direction and
| with effort possibilities emerge.
| 99b12e2d358bb03 wrote:
| > There are no mental health facilities in the small town where I
| live.
|
| There are some excellent suggestion in this thread, but the above
| comment seems inadequately addressed. The absence of adequate
| mental health facilities is a serious barrier. Virtual, remote
| and phone-based mental health interventions are useful tools, but
| often ineffective on their own. In-person support nourishes our
| need for connection. I say this from experience. My father, who
| lived in a rural setting and suffered from alcoholism, died
| unexpectedly after his in-person addictions support ceased during
| the pandemic and was replaced with phone-based counseling. Your
| situation differs in many important ways, but it is important to
| be realistic about interventions and their effectiveness.
|
| In the absence of mental health facilities, I would encourage you
| to consider religious groups in your area. It's important to
| recognize that organized religion provides many social goods even
| if we may find their claims questionable. If organized religion
| is anathema to you, I would encourage you to approach it in a
| secular manner. Not as a source of truth but instead as a
| collection of myth, practice and wisdom that has nourished the
| souls of many before you.
|
| I know this can be hard for some people to seriously consider,
| but I would encourage you to at least give it a try. I have never
| found a human settlement that had no religious group and often
| there are many to choose from. Consider finding the group with
| the most beautiful building or greatest reverence for particular
| human endeavor (art, music, meditation, etc). Once you find one
| you can tolerate best, then commit to it for a fixed period of
| time and take its rituals seriously. This means attending weekly
| sessions (all of them - you have the time), volunteering (build
| those connections), and ideally finding people you enjoy being
| with. And think seriously about the foundational document or
| creed that the group considers. Ancient creeds may be dressed up
| in religious wording but these sacred resources have guided
| humanity long before us and will do so for a very long time. You
| may find yourself enlightened when you consider that some of
| these ancient prophets and religious thinkers were struggling at
| the forefront of human thought to write down ideas for which
| words did not exist. At the very least ask "What are these
| authors trying to say?". Consider being charitable given billions
| of humans have found these religious ideas worthy of preservation
| over thousands of years. You never know, you might even come to
| value them too.
|
| For example, one thing you will almost always learn from these
| ancient, sacred texts is that the good things of life such as a
| wife, children, home and meaningful work were attainable to men
| much, much older than you. These blessings of life can be yours
| as well.
|
| You are never as alone as you think you are, and thing are never
| as hopeless as they seem. Getting started will be hard I am sure.
| Breaking the chain of negative thought will require effort. Life
| contains suffering and pain, yes. But the good things you desire
| are worth the struggle. If you can find nothing good in yourself
| to admire, then simply begin with admiring your desire for a
| wife, children, a home and meaningful work. These are admirable
| things and admirable is the man that desires them. My hope is you
| will admire yourself as I admire you.
|
| Godspeed!
| abetusk wrote:
| Not in Education, Employment, or Training [0].
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEET
| Nursie wrote:
| You can meet someone in your 40s. You might meet someone who
| already has kids and honestly, if you want kids in your life then
| much past 40 that's probably the best way!
|
| I cannot advise you on getting to the US, but it's never too late
| to restart things in general. 40s is mid career, and the best of
| your life can still be ahead of you. I'm the same age, I'm still
| making plans to build and grow.
|
| I'd advise some sort of educational refresher, see if there's a
| qualification you can do that builds on (or converts) what you
| already have. If you want to be in tech then various places used
| to offer one-year conversion masters in software for existing
| grads. Another option might be to do a teaching qualification if
| that appeals.
|
| The important thing is to make a start!
|
| (And also I would seek some counselling for that suicidal
| ideation, it's important to talk through this stuff with someone)
| technics256 wrote:
| I agree with what other posters say. The big thing is learning to
| forgive yourself and taking active steps every day in healthy
| habits.
|
| That, and a session with MDMA will work wonders
| 2-718-281-828 wrote:
| I feel like I'm at an upward trajectory at the moment. I'm also
| NEET but as of now intentionally and also traveling. I meditate
| every day (pranayama, vipassana, zen), I work out every day, I do
| yoga every day, I eat healthy every day, I don't do drugs except
| for alcohol and that in moderation, I stopped watching porn more
| than a month ago, I stopped picking the skin on my nail beds
| finally also about a month ago, I do my best to learn what is
| good for me and what is harmful and then I do my best to do more
| of what's good and less of what's bad. Suicidal ideation - yes -
| but also almost gone for a while now. My convenient situation -
| traveling - having all the time for those things and being able
| to avoid the daily ordeal of working - will end in about two
| months. I hope I'll be able to integrate all or some of it back
| into "regular" life. But if I don't - I feel like I can basically
| copy paste your text to the T in a few years - when I myself will
| be in my 40s.
|
| But what I can give you as advice is to break away from this idea
| that the "best part" of your life is over and you need to
| "salvage" something. Living happy is always about being present
| in the present. Age does not matter from that perspective! And
| you also seem like somebody who is detached from your spiritual
| needs - I think that's where you have to start looking. There are
| many inspirational interviews and talks to be found online by
| Eckhart Tolle, Gabor Mate and so on.
| fnord123 wrote:
| This is above HN's paygrade.
|
| International Suicide Crisis Hotline directory:
|
| https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines
|
| If you are posting this kind of message on HN then you're at a
| point that you can call for a 1-1 chat. There are people who can
| listen. Don't rely on social media to do this.
| nonethewiser wrote:
| This comes off more as condescending than helpful.
| seanw444 wrote:
| I've never understood this. If I was suicidal, being given
| the suicide hotline number as a response would just tick me
| off.
| eastbound wrote:
| Ah, suicide hotlines.
|
| Ok, he must absolutely do it if he needs. BUT.
|
| - For men, they're underfunded, at least in my country
| (France). I called them a few times in my life, can't count the
| number of times the answering machines were like "We're open
| Tuesdays, 7pm-midnight" or "You are the ... 7th ... in the
| queue". Or it's a hotline for teens. Or it's a hotline for
| suicide AND familial violence.
|
| - Many suicide hotlines are for women, or designed for women
| and incapable of dealing with men's problems. As in "I... I...
| can't date" "Well just ask a girl out". Yeah right, words of a
| woman, it works for them this way to they project that it must
| be easy for men.
|
| The night I called 7 of them just to get no answer gave me a
| hit of anger, which was enough to pull me through. I wanted to
| take revenge for the world not caring enough about us.
| tgv wrote:
| We're not therapists, but many people don't need therapy: their
| cry for help doesn't mean they're short on dopamine or have
| childhood trauma. They're simply destitute. Therapy also isn't
| a magical bullet: it's not exactly engineering.
|
| What we can give is some experience, and heartfelt advice.
| Perhaps there's something of value in this thread, if not for
| poor OP, then for another person that feels the weight of
| expectations on his/her shoulders.
| [deleted]
| meepmorp wrote:
| Being unhappy with how your life is going doesn't equate to
| being suicidal.
| DMell wrote:
| > after being scared by my first real suicidal ideation a few
| nights ago.
|
| While there is a lot of validity to asking others about their
| experience, there is also validity in speaking with a
| professional.
| Madmallard wrote:
| There's legitimately good advice in this thread.
| boppo1 wrote:
| I recall that this hotline basically just calls your local
| authorities and prevents you from being a danger to yourself by
| having you committed to a mental health facility. Sub-optimal.
| cnlwsu wrote:
| Seems like unnecessary shade to throw on the helpline. There
| was a viral thing a bit ago making rounds on social media
| accusing them of it but its far from reality. There are like
| 50k of 3 million calls a year that result in contacting the
| authorities, but its extreme scenarios.
|
| Its a rare thing and highlighting it as the default scenario
| is spreading FUD and possibly keeping people from getting the
| help they need. It is true though that if you call and
| describe an immediate plan to kill yourself there is some
| legal, ethical, and liability requirements that mean they
| will call authorities. Exact same thing if you tell your
| doctor or therapist.
| fnord123 wrote:
| If OP is in Germany (they say they studied in the US implying
| that they are no longer there; and their nick is Deutscher)
| then https://www.telefonseelsorge.de/telefon/ claims to be
| anonymous.
| hnbad wrote:
| If OP is in Germany, I can second this recommendation.
| They're funded via Christian organizations but as far as
| I'm aware the hotlines themselves are secular by default so
| if you're an atheist or non-Christian you don't have to
| worry about them pushing anything religious on you. Also,
| given how strict German privacy laws are, their claims of
| anonymity are as reliable as they can be (caveat: don't
| confess to any major crimes you have committed as those are
| usually not covered by privacy laws).
|
| The easiest way to access a therapist is to ask your
| general practitioner ( _Hausarzt_ or _Allgemeinmediziner_ )
| for a referral. You'll still have to find one yourself but
| they can direct you towards a list. The wait times can be
| very long but the sessions (and meds if any) are covered by
| public health insurance.
| athenot wrote:
| In the US, this is not true.
|
| First they will talk you down if there is imminent danger.
| There are some real skilled people that are good at de-
| escalation. They might try to get you in touch with any
| fiends or relatives you may trust, and even conference them
| into the call with your permission. (I was called by them.)
|
| They can also dispatch a team to help calm down any acute
| episode of severe depression / suicide ideation.
|
| They can recommends a voluntary committment to a mental
| health facility. Involontary committment has certain criteria
| regarding safety and imminent danger, at which point it would
| involve the police and they would be the ones making that
| call.
|
| If not a mental health facility, they do recommend getting a
| psychiatrist ASAP and provide referrals. And they call back a
| few days to check on the caller, to ensure they followed
| through and are seeking help.
|
| Source: A close relative experienced this first hand.
| ipnon wrote:
| Mental health facilities are not good for your mental state.
| If you thought you knew what mental anguish was just wait
| until you get to the big leagues. They dope you up and you
| sit around in a sterile hospital bed until you get the hint
| that you can't go home until you stop voluntarily reporting
| symptoms of wanting to self harm.
| beebeepka wrote:
| Depending on how you have treated your body, 40s isn't _too_ late
| at all. There 's a big chance you can turn this around. It may
| not even happen until you hit rock bottom, at least in your
| mind/soul, though.
|
| I don't even think you need to pay for counselling. You're here
| and it's free input. Keep your savings for more important things.
|
| As they told me when I got out of my cryopod: have a nice future.
| lallysingh wrote:
| 43's a great time to reinvent yourself. You don't have to look at
| your progress on the plan you probably put together for yourself
| in your late teens/early 20s (engineer / wife /kids).
|
| Let's talk about steps:
|
| > There are no mental health facilities in the small town where I
| live. I let my professional network decay and die, and there is
| literally nowhere else I can get any kind of useful, actionable
| advice.
|
| (1) Get out of that town. Both problems you have are easily
| solvable with moving a few hours away from where you are now.
| Find a therapist, find professional meetups/orgs/etc.
|
| > I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house,
| meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late
| for the first few.
|
| (2) Frankly, work on just one of those (hint: start with a
| girlfriend, figure out wife later; you actually have plenty of
| time, and the standards drop as your competitive pool shrinks).
| The others will come a lot easier. See #1 for how to make that
| situation easier.
|
| > With every passing day, I am becoming more bitter, angry and
| disillusioned. I don't want to live like this anymore,
|
| (3a) Part of that sounds like grieving. I'm guessing on this
| part: did your dad provide you some of your motivation and
| direction? If so, that's a second loss.
|
| (3b) What are you doing for fun? Do more fun stuff. This isn't
| frivolous, it's survival. Men in their 40s (I'm one too) forget
| to actually _enjoy_ their lives. You have time, and you have
| health, and you have necessity for it. Your depression justifies
| more effort in enjoying yourself.
|
| So, as you're asking for advice, I'll give it. Move. Move
| somewhere that has good therapeutic, social, professional, and
| recreational potential. BTW: it's more important to go where
| there's people than somewhere with good rental prices. Suck up a
| crap apartment to have fun again. The nice thing about renting is
| that you can rent somewhere else a short time later.
|
| If you want really good advice that I'll probably get flamed for:
| Get a motorcycle. There's an old saying that you don't see
| motorcycles parked in front of therapists' offices. Riding is
| pure meditation and you don't need to have any friends at all to
| enjoy. It also makes you more interesting and respectable. As
| you're in your 40s and a professional, a BMW GS is kinda presumed
| (I also have one).
| user8501 wrote:
| You're gonna have a hard time "salvaging what's left" if you
| continue see it as such. There's no reason you can't feel like
| you were just born. And there's no reason a married and
| successful 40 year old can't fall into a deep depression. Work on
| enjoying present which is where real happiness lies. Your
| situation sounds like heaven to some.
| coyotespike wrote:
| I sorted my life out in my mid-30s. Still divorced and single,
| which is scary as I push 40, but everything is on an unshakable
| upward track.
|
| You are in a wonderful position, and a tough one. What's tougher
| than feeling sandbagged by your own psyche? What's better than
| not being an addict who's hurt everyone that matters to you? Well
| done having savings from over a decade ago, that is exceptional.
|
| You are far from alone. Lots of people feel stuck, over the hill,
| like they have unique and unhelp-able problems.
|
| Everyone else has already suggested getting a therapist; it's a
| real project to find the person (person, not school of thought)
| right for you, but worthwhile. If you can learn how to meditate
| (stick to the traditions imo), many people find therapy +
| meditation a great one-two punch combo. Maybe the best. A
| mushroom trip might help.
|
| Thank you for the work you've already started, and best of luck.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| I'm also in my 40s, and also not super happy with my current
| life. I have no magic bullet, but wanted to say: People I know in
| their 70s and 80s have insisted to me that in your 40s the best
| of your life is _not_ behind you.
|
| (To me, this is just more terrifying, oh no, so I have to make
| THESE years count too and have no excuse for them being crappy?
| haha).
|
| But other thoughts...
|
| * These days you can talk to a therapist over zoom
|
| * Do you have legal permission to move back to US right now? If
| so, and you want to... do it? Putting together a plan to get back
| will give you some direction
| schizo89 wrote:
| My life turned at 26 when I developed schizophrenia. I was a
| startup enterpreneur and now doing open-source lol
| keeptrying wrote:
| The suicidal ideation is a "bug" in our psyche.
|
| Fully encompassing a structure where you understand that your
| mind is separate from you is very very important. Some useful
| modalities: - Integrated Family systems - Thinking of your mind
| as a tool that you control and use and which has major bugs. -
| Understanding that you are not your mind.
|
| The other important thing you need is people you trust around you
| who are positive and can help you positively. Each has its own
| pitfalls but you can choose from: - therapist (probably the best
| if you can afford one and can find a good one) - church groups -
| buddhist centers (would recommend SGI - Sokka Gakkai
| International. You can find a chapter near you)
|
| If something doesn't work and is making you feel negative. Cut it
| out immediately.
|
| Start working on something you like relating to your past work
| experience.
| nickelcitymario wrote:
| I think there's two big aspects to this, based on your comments.
|
| The first is the real and relatable challenge of making a major
| life change in your 40s. I'm 38 and just made the decision to
| prioritize my health and happiness over my career, but I can only
| do that because my career reached a tipping point where the
| stress involved in each additional dollar earned was rapidly
| getting out of whack.
|
| So I asked my bosses if there's an opportunity to step down and
| find a different role, and we're working on that right now. I
| can't say if this will be successful, but it's a huge relief.
|
| So that's the first side, I think: Recognizing that we all need
| work that aligns with our values. I don't just mean moral values,
| but in terms of what you value every day.
|
| But the second part: You're clearly seeing only the negative
| right now:
|
| "I have no skills" is utter nonsense. If your brain is telling
| you that, you need to tell it in no uncertain terms to shut the
| fuck up. That negative self talk will kill you.
|
| Everyone has skills. You also have a degree (is that a Masters in
| Engineering or a Masters in English?), and work experience. I
| don't care if it's rusty. Those are huge assets.
|
| Maybe you can't jump right into a $250k/year job. But you also
| don't need to flip burgers.
|
| Focus on the positive. Focus on your strengths. Stop comparing
| yourself to others or even to your own past. Let go of those
| expectations. You may find you already have a great life, or that
| it's not that far out of reach.
| mythrwy wrote:
| There's actually nothing wrong with flipping burgers. In my
| opinion it's more useful then what a vast number of highly paid
| people do for work.
| jsonne wrote:
| I've been in some dark places myself with it all culminating
| about 4 years ago with the birth of my son and I had everything
| going "right" and all the things you claim to desire. I had a
| successful small ad agency, was married, lived in a cool city,
| etc. and yet was still in a dark place. Don't fall into the trap
| thinking that simply ticking these boxes will improve your life,
| certainly material changes to things can make a big difference
| but they won't "solve" it. I emphasize this because most of the
| advice here is focused on changing your material condition (which
| makes sense this is a forum dominated by engineers) but that
| isn't the whole story.
|
| I would also question your analysis of the situation which seems
| to rest on this mistaken understanding of time. Plenty of people
| have everything you want and die at 50 or younger. Plenty of
| people are in your shoes and live to be 100. Don't assume you do
| or don't have time left to do these things.
|
| Years of therapy started me on the path. Progress was slow at
| first, gradual for a long time, and then I seemingly hit a number
| of breakthroughs that really accelerated things in the past year.
| The biggest things you can do today, yes today, are get your diet
| in order if it isn't already, start going to the gym regularly if
| you aren't already, meditate daily (it actual changes the
| structure of your brain). There's some evidence that ice baths
| and sauna bathing can help a lot. (It did for me). I listen to
| the Huberman podcast and if you're scientifically minded he's a
| Stanford neurologist who talks through things that can help like
| depression, anxiety, etc on a chemical level and how it can help
| us improve our lives. Also if you're a big drinker or use some
| sort of drugs you need to work first off towards moderating those
| or consider entirely eliminating them from your life for at least
| the short term. I entirely stopped drinking for 6 months and now
| it's an extremely rare occurrence. It's not going to fix things
| but it will keep them from getting worse.
|
| Longer term don't be afraid to explore meds if needed (with the
| advice of a doctor of course), despite the wide demonization they
| get from others in tech adderall changed my life significantly
| for the better (but know it's a push not a silver bullet). In the
| process with therapy I learned not to hate myself, I found (re-
| found) my religion, and am starting to make genuine friendship
| and connections. I also found the writings of Marcus Aurelius in
| Meditations to be extremely useful. If the literal emperor of
| Rome felt like how I do every day surely I am not alone.
|
| Is my life perfect? Not at all. Did material things like changing
| my job, moving half way across the country, cutting old
| friendships etc help? Absolutely! The above list sounds
| borderline cliche and it basically is because the advice works.
| My biggest thing I want to emphasize though is that start slow.
| Don't shift perfectionism to your self improvement. Again
| emphasizing diet and exercise even a 15 minute walk a day and
| cutting our processed foods can do more than you think and you
| can't talk your way out of biology. Email is in my DMs if you
| want to talk. We're all in it together. I once heard that the
| whole universe is love. We're either all screaming out for love
| (through sadness or anger or both) or we're giving it. It sounds
| so flippant but it really is true. Hope this helps and hope you
| find your path. If it's any help I'm a total stranger and odds
| are we'll never chat but know I am rooting for you.
| RobertRoberts wrote:
| I was in the reverse situation than you, maybe something I have
| to offer will help. I was suicidal as a young teen, hospitalized
| for it (forcibly) as a risk to myself. The last time I considered
| suicide was in my late 30s.I have too much to say, so I will try
| to start with the most important.
|
| Find someone else to care about, and do something for them. (keep
| doing this until you feel better)
|
| There are so many people in trouble with so many issues. This
| will instantly take your mind off your own problems.
|
| No matter what you are going to suffer. Either your suffering
| will be because change and taking action (against
| procrastination) hurts really bad. (people who dismiss this pain
| have never experienced it) Or you are going suffer a life of
| decline.
|
| You need to have some belief and faith in the answers given to
| you here that they will do you any good. I've followed advice
| that I had no belief would work because I was at the end of my
| rope multiple times, but I trusted the person saying it. (what
| else can you do sometimes?)
|
| Look for things to be grateful for.
|
| I've had zero money in the bank and mouths to feed, be grateful
| you have a home (I assume), some money in the bank etc... Really
| think about these things and try and appreciate them.
|
| I am in my later years now, and because of my past I grit my
| teeth and accept the pain of facing my problems head on because
| I've proved over and over again that yields the best results for
| having a satisfying life.
|
| If you keep looking you will figure something out and find the
| courage, strength and hope.
| [deleted]
| mastersummoner wrote:
| I managed to get into professional software development in my
| early thirties. My college track was for that, but took a severe
| detour after graduation. For me, a programming bootcamp helped me
| turn things around and get me my first job as a professional
| developer, though the ecosystem is a lot different now and I'm
| not sure how good even the best is. Highly recommend doing a
| _lot_ of research before plonking down a chunk of change.
|
| I also had my first kid at 39. It's hard, but management. A kid
| in your forties isn't unheard of at all, and you can absolutely
| meet a wonderful woman at any point in your life.
|
| Strong agree on seeking therapy. You have a lot of options, but
| getting your head and heart in a good place will make the path a
| whole lot more evident and smooth.
| positivejam wrote:
| What's your preferred medium (one-on-one conversation, book,
| audiobook, podcast, article, etc.)?
| [deleted]
| rubicon33 wrote:
| There must be something that you want to do. 40 isn't that old.
|
| Totally change your profession, travel, etc. As others have
| pointed out you need to move on from the crippling focus on your
| age and lost time. If you continue to focus on that, you will
| only lose MORE time.
|
| Seriously, drop everything, re-train, and start pursuing life on
| your terms. I'm not saying it will be easy but sometimes having a
| purpose and struggling can be more rewarding then wallowing in
| comfort.
| nevada-blackhat wrote:
| I had similar dark thoughts as I approached age 40. I had
| suffered an emotionaly - and financially - draining marriage that
| cost me seven years, and a house. After retiring from the miltary
| at 35, I moved back in with my parents. What I thought would be
| my post-retirement dream job (laser engraving) only lasted a
| month. The next job (commercial computer technician) while vastly
| expanding my computer knowledge, only lasted 13 months. I didn't
| know what to do next.
|
| Due to the security clearance I had in the military, I couldn't
| seek out mental help without risking the loss of my clearance and
| special programs access, so instead I would privately write down
| what I was feeling. This went on for months, then years. I'd go
| back and read through it, reliving the darkness. Then, one day at
| my parents' home, I decided it was time to move on from the pain
| of the past. I took all of those pages of dark thoughts and one-
| by-one, burned them all. The smoke blackened my face, but when I
| washed the soot away, I was a new man.
|
| Secure in my third job (K-12 computer tech) I broke out of my
| shell at age 40, dating women anywhere from 20 years younger to
| 20 years older. Without expecting it, I connected with a
| student's mother (that's closer to my age) at the student's
| graduation party. We got married the following year, bought a
| house the year after that, and have been together now for 21
| years. I'm 62, and loving life.
|
| You can do it, brother. You can get though this. Seek therapy if
| it's available - or start writing those thoughts down. Then, when
| you think you've written enough - burn that baggage, and move
| forward. Good things can come when you least expect it.
|
| PS: I've lurked at Hacker News for years. Your post inspired me
| to join and reach out to you.
| blitz_skull wrote:
| There's a lot of good advice here but I'll chime in with
| something that I think is both underrated and immediately useful.
| Most people don't pay enough attention to what they're filling
| their heads with.
|
| The things you listen to, and the stuff you watch become the ways
| you think, almost invariably. So you should find things to listen
| to that prime your mind to embrace the difficult process of
| change.
|
| My recommendation? The Jocko Podcast.
| [deleted]
| teddyh wrote:
| https://www.cracked.com/article_19655_5-famous-late-bloomers...
| jmbwell wrote:
| 1. See a therapist. If only to ask about therapy.
|
| 2. A symptom of this condition is distorted perceptions and
| beliefs. It introduces undetected errors in your rational
| processes. It can be difficult to think your own way out of it as
| a result. A professional can help you troubleshoot these errors
| and patch them out. Can't recommend this enough. You can totally
| do it.
|
| 3. Pick someone on your insurance or out of the phone book and
| just go. It will be hard to take the first steps (again,
| depression fights to defend itself). But you can do it.
|
| 4. To answer your question, yes, people make changes in their
| lives to bring themselves happiness at all ages. It's sometimes
| difficult, but as they say, many of the things most worth doing,
| are. Get a guide. Start small. Keep moving. You can do it!
| mikece wrote:
| I recently watched a YouTube video in which Joe Buissink was
| interviewed. Joe _BEGAN_ photography at 43 and became one of the
| most sought after wedding photographers on the west coast,
| charging up to $50,000 per wedding. I 've loved photography for
| more than 20 years and even did some low-end wedding and portrait
| work over 10 years ago but was thinking that I was merely a
| mediocre photographer who wouldn't ever improve my skills to the
| point of being truly in demand until I watched that video. If you
| want to do something, DO IT. If you're not good at it today,
| PRACTICE. The only thing that can prevent you from improving and
| achieving is deciding you aren't going to try.
| Havoc wrote:
| Aside from seeking therapy I'd suggest taking a baby steps
| approach. Lives are not changed overnight but step by step.
|
| Also - having a MEng must surely make you employable in some
| capacity even if a little more junior than you'd ideally want.
| [deleted]
| tinglymintyfrsh wrote:
| Mid 40's here. I was vanlifeing (sorta homeless) and scraping-by
| doing consulting gigs until I went to work for a MAANG. Startup-
| like activities on the side are necessary but shouldn't be sole
| focus without revenue on the way to profit.
| cowmix wrote:
| As someone who has kids, wife, dogs, etc (and happy) -- I'm still
| envious of your ability to make ANY change you want w/o having to
| clear it with anyone. Just do it! :-)
|
| Also, I highly encourage you to watch this Ken Burn FLW
| documentary. You'll see a guy who did his best work after he was
| 50:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Frank-Lloyd-Wright-Burns-Novick/dp/B0...
| moe091 wrote:
| I think I can at least somewhat understand your position, despite
| still being in my 30s myself, and want to try and help despite my
| inexperience.
|
| First thing, to answer the question in your post title: I know of
| people who have, I know many people who are in the
| addiction/recovery scene, and although I have a very pessimistic
| outlook on the chances of full/real recover for such issues, I do
| know at least a couple cases of people turning their lives around
| in their 40s from such problems. These were people who had a long
| list of criminal charges, absolutely no money, homeless/living on
| friends/families couches, very deep-rooted trauma and mental
| health issues, no healthy relationships, etc. People coming off
| of decades of heroin or alcohol abuse have to start at just about
| the lowest point possible. A small percent of people in that
| situation recover(as in getting and staying clean), and an even
| smaller percent are truly "healed" - to the point where they can
| prosper and gain inner wellbeing and actually prosper in life,
| but it does happen.
|
| Even if it's only 2 or 3% of people in such circumstances, I
| don't think the outlook is as bleak as the numbers make it seem.
| That just means you have to be in the top couple % of people in
| how hard you work towards getting better, if you know the numbers
| then you know your goal - you have to do whatever those top 2-3%
| do, and then you will accomplish what they accomplished. In your
| situation, I'm sure the numbers are much better, as you actually
| have some money, some education and career experience, presumably
| less deep-rooted trauma and mental health issues, no criminal
| charges, a place to live, and maybe even some healthy friendships
| or family relationships (though I'm sure you have some unique
| problems of your own that complicate things, hopefully it's no so
| bad to outweigh all those other cons). I say all that to
| hopefully give you some hope, and also to give you some
| perspective that'll help you figure out what path you have to
| take to achieve the results you want.
|
| Another bit of information that might give you some hope, is a
| quote from renowned psychologist Carl Jung, who famously said
| "Life begins at 40." He also talked a lot about "mid life" and
| how it often leads to a mental/spiritual crisis and results in
| deep depressions and/or intense anxiety. In his view this was
| part of the transition into the "second half" of life, and
| overcoming this crisis was a natural part of psychological
| maturity. I definitely don't have room to go into all of this
| here, but if you want to look into Jung's work I think it could
| really help you navigate this state your in(even if this mid-life
| transition isn't the primary cause, his work of course goes well
| beyond that and has helped so many people, including myself,
| recover from a state of suicidal ideation and meaningless
| existence)
|
| The fact that you mentioned suicidal thoughts makes it clear that
| the problem is psychological at root - material circumstances can
| definitely make things worse, but people in a healthy
| psychological state can bear much more extreme troubles while
| maintaining a love for life. "A man with a 'why' can endure any
| 'what'" as another renowned psychologist, and holocaust survivor,
| Viktor Frankl said (I'd also recommend his book, "Mans search for
| meaning" - ESPECIALLY for someone who considers themselves a
| NEET). That being said, I think a professional psychologist is
| indispensable in your situation, even though suicidal people are
| often the least motivated to seek one out, you have to find a way
| to make yourself do it anyway, and believe me I know how hard
| that is in some cases. It doesn't help that finding a good
| therapist is extremely hard, and extremely crucial, as there are
| so many practicing therapists out there who either won't click
| with your or are just plainly not competent enough to help others
| with serious troubles.
|
| I have a lot of my own ideas, and have studied a lot of
| psychology from different schools, but I'm in no way a
| psychologist or a therapist so I don't want to impose my views
| without a disclaimer. Jung says that people who overcome their
| own issues, which always seem like the most difficult issues
| imaginable to the person in question, they come out the other
| side with an inflated sense of the capabilities and a desire to
| help others, with the sometimes incorrect assumption that what
| worked for them will work for others. Personal issues always
| require a very personal solution, but if you wanted to discuss
| more I could at least give any advice I have on how to find your
| own personal solution. I know it may be harder for you than it
| was for me, as I went through all this at around 28-30 years old
| and I still had the view that I had plenty of life ahead of me if
| I did manage to get better, but other than that I think I can
| relate to what you said in many ways.
|
| Reply to my comment if you want to talk more. And if you have
| anything specific you want to say feel free to - if not I'd be
| happy to just spew out a ton of information about my own
| experience, how it relates to yours, what helped me, and what I
| think you can expect in the process of getting better and the
| many ups and downs you'll likely experience on the way; knowing
| in advance what to expect can help a lot as you'll know what
| setbacks are coming and when you face them you'll be armed with
| the knowledge that such setbacks are inevitable and you are that
| much closer to your next victory, and therefore to your final
| victory, it can also help to know roughly which rung you are on
| on the "ladder" towards recovering so that, even if it's still a
| long and daunting climb ahead of you, you'll be motivated to keep
| going by the realization that you are one rung higher than you
| were last week and next week you'll be one rung closer.
| moe091 wrote:
| If you choose to reply, I have a few questions just to get an
| idea of where your at.
|
| In my opinion, all that stuff "healthy"/functioning people say
| to depressed people is technically correct, but completely
| missing the point and ignorant of the real problems(through no
| fault of their own of course, because how could they know?)
|
| e.g. "being happy is a choice", "you just need exercise and
| sunlight!", "fake it till you make it", "perspective if
| everything, if you focus on the positives instead of the
| negatives you won't feel so bad", etc.. I could go on forever
| with those. If a severely depressed/suicidal person were able
| to do all of those things, it's true they wouldn't be
| depressed, but they usually can't, and in the few cases where
| they do it's often done without the belief and commitment
| necessary to make it effective. Not doing those things isn't
| the root problem IMO, the root problem is the thing that makes
| it impossible to follow all that advice. I think this is
| especially true for people who are NEETS or who have similar
| lifestyles to a NEET.
|
| The question I wanted to ask though, is what is your current
| perspective on this type of advice? Do you do the things they
| say, do you attempt to, do you believe it could work, have you
| tried and failed to do those things?
|
| And secondly, what is your outlook on life itself? Do you have
| meaning in your life, whether spiritual, religious or
| otherwise(personally I believe there are plenty of ways to find
| meaning outside of religion and whatnot, if you have something
| to believe in that's a good starting point though. If not, are
| you are a non-religious and non-spiritual person with
| materialistic or very scientific, or even nihilistic
| perspectives towards life?
| ryanwaggoner wrote:
| _" In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an
| invincible summer." -- Albert Camus_
|
| First of all, I'm sorry that you're suffering. It seems
| completely normal that you'd be struggling given all you've been
| through. I know what that sense of despair feels like, and how
| lonely it can be. I've been there, and I wouldn't wish it on
| anyone.
|
| I wouldn't say I've "turned my life around", but I'm 40 and in
| the last few years I've gone through a loss of my faith and a
| divorce (unrelated to each other), both of which were incredibly
| traumatic and really shook the foundations of my world. During
| the darkest days, it was really a crucible, a refining process.
| It was stripping away so much of what I had built my identity
| around.
|
| The most transformative and healing things for me have been
| therapy, psychedelics, meditation, and divorce. I'm not
| recommending them all to everyone, but they changed me for the
| better.
|
| And coming out the other side, I have _such_ a better
| relationship with myself. I barely recognize myself from before.
| And as a result, I have a better relationship with my daughter,
| my friends, my family, my work, even with my ex-wife. I feel so
| much happier and more excited for the second half of my life than
| I ever have. I 'm in a new relationship that feels open and
| healthy, and I'm planning to switch careers to be a therapist.
|
| If you like to read, two foundational books that helped me:
|
| - Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff
|
| - Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life by James Hollis
|
| Good luck, you can do this!
|
| PS - my email is in my profile, please don't hesitate to reach
| out if you ever need someone to talk to. I was helped through
| this period by many other kind people, some of them strangers,
| and I'm always happy to pay it forward and lend an ear and some
| support to anyone who needs it. That goes for anyone reading this
| too!
| nashashmi wrote:
| You need a friend. Or need to become a friend. You also need a
| faith. And finally you need to take some small course on the
| side.
|
| Humans are: social creatures with need for personal improvement
| and a faith to help guide them thru life.
|
| The rest will fall in place.
|
| And Digital socialization won't work.
| EoinB wrote:
| I am 47 years old and have had two suicide attempts in my life,
| various interventions and other close calls and I just want to
| say to you that, even though things can seem hopeless, your life
| can get better; but you absolutely need to seek professional
| help.
|
| I did and that and medication (I have Bipolar disorder) has
| probably saved my life.
| johndhi wrote:
| My view: to start, spend half an hour thinking about the
| situations in which you feel happier or more energetic. Do you
| like exercise, driving, looking at a body of water, seeing
| friends, seeing family, etc.?
|
| Then, build a schedule where you do those things. Additionally,
| try to refine what it is that makes you happy with those things.
| When you look at water, are you meditating? When you read, are
| you contemplating religious ideas, or coming up with imaginative
| fantasties?
|
| Then you could go after that activity directly -- try meditating,
| try joining a fiction writing class.
|
| Once you have a routine where you're feeling a little better,
| THEN do some thinking about things you might want in your life
| (new clothes, girlfriend, whatever). But first do the above.
| [deleted]
| bob271 wrote:
| Dear OP,
|
| To turn everything around, change first the inside.
|
| Words can change a person from the inside.
|
| Try if you can hear these words:
|
| "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples.
|
| And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
|
| Reference: John 8:31-32
|
| https://www.esv.org/John+8/
| rrgok wrote:
| How I love bible quote like this. Thanks.
| issa wrote:
| Lots of good advice in this thread. I will just add that you have
| NO IDEA what will happen in the next year or decade. Life gets
| different as you get older, but not all of it is bad.
| atbpaca wrote:
| Not sure if you are in the US or not. But have you tried tele-
| medicine? During the pandemic, I had severe anxiety problems and
| I was able to find a psychiatrist through Teladoc. There are
| other tele-medicine providers as well. Everything done through
| the browser in video conf. If there are no therapists or
| psychiatrist around, I highly recommend it at least as a starting
| point while you look for an in-person professional.
| xchip wrote:
| Note than having a wife brings a different set of pros and cons,
| the same thing for kids. Despite we think this is the next
| natural step, the evidence/failure-rate show this in not for
| everybody.
| gabereiser wrote:
| A good therapist will change your life. They will show you how
| your thinking effects your life and outcomes. You are holding
| yourself back. Go get some help, seek professional help, not
| comradeship on the internet.
|
| You still have like 40 years of being awesome, it only takes 1 to
| turn it all around.
| [deleted]
| phkahler wrote:
| >> I know the best of my life is behind me
|
| This in not true. It may feel that way now, but I promise when
| you truly reach the other side of this your life can be better
| than ever. It's a long road and others will have good advice. I
| just wanted to emphasis this statement you made does not have to
| be true.
|
| Been there, felt that.
| thrownaway561 wrote:
| dude... yes and i'll give you 3 examples:
|
| my father: was bankrupt in the real estate crash of 1990. Started
| all over as a commercial mortgage broker not knowing how to do
| the business worth a damn and became VERY successful at it. Got
| lucky when a client wanted him to manage a bunch of commercial
| properties for him. He bought the properties from the bank,
| rehabbed them and sold them for millions. Retired off it, still
| does commercial loans for kicks but travels the world.
|
| my brother: lost everything in a bitter divorce and worked jobs
| as a mortgage broker getting screwed over every steps of the way
| for YEARS. Finally landed a job with a bank doing loans for them
| and made a KILLING from it. Owns multiple houses and is VERY well
| off. Could retire today if he wanted at 47.
|
| me: Had a huge issue with alcohol and drugs and lost everything
| at 39. Got completely screwed over by my business partner, fired
| from my 18 year job, got divorced and had to pay alimony for 4
| years. Finally landed a wonderful remote job 2 years ago, met the
| woman of my dreams, moved in with her and have more money and
| security now then I have EVER had in my life. And to top it off I
| just celebrated 7 years sober in November.
|
| Time is only perception... Fear is the only thing that keeps you
| from moving forward... You are stronger than you know.
| mbgerring wrote:
| The only thing it's ever "too late" for that I'm aware of is
| becoming an elite level professional athlete in some sports, or
| un-assisted pregnancy & childbirth (note the specificity there).
| Pretty much anything else is just a matter of deciding to do it.
| Good luck!
| jagtstronaut wrote:
| I know people have already given a good bit of advice and this
| was in my 20s not my 40s but I went through a pretty rough patch
| in college that I left with a couple suicide attempts and a trip
| to the mental hospital. Counseling was super valuable for me
| especially Christian counseling. I know this site isn't the most
| religion friendly but the only reason I'm alive today is because
| Jesus met me in all that junk. Take it or leave it but that's
| what happened to me.
| stevev wrote:
| Find therapy or just someone to talk to. The first and easiest
| place for free support can be a church. You can find love in the
| church as well to fulfill the wife and kids part; achieved by
| volunteering.
| p0wn wrote:
| One thing I'd start doing is start reading.
|
| First I'd look into Stoicism. That will put you on a good path if
| you start practicing it. I personally like 'the little book of
| stoicism'. It's little but gives a good history of what Stoicism
| is and how it came to be, and also a lot of actionable advice.
|
| From there I have a ton of other recommendations you can just dm
| me when you want them.
| DrewADesign wrote:
| As a 42 year old full-time undergraduate student having recently
| resurfaced from a deep depression that cost me my job of 11 years
| (which ended up being for the best, largely,) I can relate to
| what you're going through.
|
| As so many other people have said, you are probably depressed.
| It's not your fault, you didn't cause it, you can't just 'stop'
| being depressed by trying to do things like you aren't depressed,
| and unless you address your depression, you simply won't be
| successful addressing anything else.
|
| > I know the best of my life is behind me
|
| I assure you this is false unless you deliberately make it so.
| Happiness isn't the opposite of depression: vitality is. From
| depression, the good times seem like a distant relic that you no
| longer deserve or are capable of. That is the barrier between you
| and the good times-- not age, or time.
|
| Drugs could help you start turning things around in weeks. Even
| better combined with either talk therapy to keep you on track, or
| CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which gives you customized,
| situation-specific mental tools to change your behavior) if talk
| therapy/emotional deep dives makes you too uncomfortable. If
| you'd prefer not to take antidepressants, CBT alone is
| fantastically effective. (Seriously. Lots of peer-reviewed
| research.)
|
| > no vices at all other than severe procrastination and a
| masterful ability to lie to myself.
|
| You might want to ask whoever you're getting treated by if you
| might have a condition for which depression is a frequent
| comorbidity, because it sounds like you have trouble with
| executive functioning. The EF problems associated with ADHD, for
| example, quite frequently manifest themselves as extreme
| procrastination.
|
| All of this stuff is eminently treatable, with or without drugs,
| with or without emotional deep-dives of talk therapy. While
| professional guidance is essential, what you'll get is a set of
| tools and strategies to keep the ship right and fix it when it
| goes wrong (which is allll part of the process. Don't beat
| yourself up.) I am completely confident you can regain a
| functional, fulfilling, enjoyable adulthood as I did.
| upghost wrote:
| Hey brother hang in there. My grandpa didn't have his first kid
| until he was 68!! And his wife was in her young 20s. And they
| were in love till the day he died in his late 80s. He wasn't any
| kind of programmer or rich or anything. It's an atypical story
| but the point is do not EVER think the best of your life is
| BEHIND you! One of the most foolish and important of all emotions
| is hope. Hope is about taking a look at the data and realizing
| that the situation is grim but choosing to proceed as if life has
| good things in store for you anyway. Beethoven's 9th symphony was
| written when he was stone cold deaf and he wouldn't ever get to
| hear a single note of the music, and yet he wrote it anyway as a
| big middle finger to the cruel hand that fate dealt him. If you
| look at his writings from the time, they were pretty dark. That's
| why Ode to Joy brings me to tears darn near every time I hear it.
| Hope has a way of making its own luck, if you are open to the
| possibilities that life puts before you and you don't hang onto
| the wheel too tightly. Last thing to remember is that YOUR story
| is beautiful, even the tragic parts, because it is your
| experience. None of us have any idea what we are "supposed" to be
| doing here. No one's journey is more valuable than anyone else's.
| And the sad parts of being human are part of the experience too.
| Hang in there man. There is so much beauty out there for you to
| discover, out there and within.
| wmeredith wrote:
| Not me, but my Mother indeed turned her life in a completely
| different direction in her 40's. Up until then, she was married
| to a verbally abusive narcissist for 20 years (my father-a decent
| man and excellent surgeon, but with unaddressed mental health
| issues). She and my Dad divorced at 40, and she returned to
| school to get the degree she always wanted. She completed PhD in
| English Literature and, for the last 20+ years, has been an
| accomplished English professor and author-writing everything from
| illustrated children's stories to graduate-level textbooks. She
| also met another man, and they've now been married longer than
| she and my father.
|
| Your perspective is out of calibration. You're halfway through
| your life (ish). Your best days could easily be ahead of you. You
| need a therapist, and they are available online. Doesn't have to
| be one in your town. My wife and I have seen a couple's therapist
| online for 3+ years now, and it's an excellent way to spend our
| time and money.
|
| Life is hard. It was hard then and it will be hard now, but you
| can do the things you want. And the second half is coming whether
| you do them or not, so you may as well get started.
| sibeliuss wrote:
| My Mother turned her whole (entire) life around at 55. It has
| been remarkable to watch, and it was pretty dark before this
| period of time. It's possible.
| willmadden wrote:
| I know plenty of people who did 1+2 in their 50s and later. Your
| problem is your outlook on life.
| EwanToo wrote:
| Do not give up. The idea that at 40 or 50 you're past it and have
| missed out on all the opportunities in life is common, but it's
| flat out wrong. A wife and kids in your 40s is perfectly
| feasible, but I wouldn't focus on them first. Once you're in a
| happier and more stable position personally, then other things
| can and will follow.
|
| Other people have given good positive practical advice on
| therapy, which I would recommend too, pick anyone and see if it
| works, if not move on. The therapist is not your friend and you
| don't need to worry about their feelings or long-term commitment
| upfront.
| fauria wrote:
| Give skydiving a try.
|
| Move somewhere sunny for an AFF course, get your A license and
| start jumping with other people.
|
| From your post you don't seem to have any physical disability
| that would prevent practicing the sport, and 43yo is by no means
| too old. I've met USPA instructor examiners (ie very experienced
| folks) that started their skydiving careers around that age.
|
| From there you will figure out what to do next with an entirely
| different mindset.
| anonreeeeplor wrote:
| Hey man,
|
| I am 40 and have a house and kids. I used to get shockingly
| depressed. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy got me out of it.
|
| I have since made and lost and made millions. I don't feel any
| happier than I was when I was making millions. There were days
| when I would look in my account and see $50K increase.
|
| The stock market is an illusion it was all just fake. Everyone is
| in your position post 40 in tech. No one is getting rich right
| now. Just look around. Everyone is going through it.
|
| It isn't a realistic mindset to think there is something
| specifically wrong with you. It's everywhere.
|
| In this market you should be looking ahead to where you want to
| be when the market improves: that means surviving the next two
| years with a hell of a lot new skills, better health and most
| importantly better skills at controlling your brain and attitude.
|
| You and I are too old to be negative. No one in any position of
| responsibility can afford the luxury of waking up every day and
| just picking whatever random attitude they feel like having. That
| is a teenager or a child behavior.
|
| If you have responsibilities, which we do as adults. To ourselves
| and our community and our family and our society we can only
| afford to choose optimism.
|
| Even if it hurts. Even if you have to look at it sideways and
| squint. Even if you have to grit your teeth.
|
| If you have responsibility, you have to learn to put on blinders
| and view the attitude you choose every morning as being like a
| game cartridge you load in a game console.
|
| Read about CBT, read the power of positive thinking, how to lose
| at everything and still win big, everything by earl nightingale.
|
| The old advice for Men from the 1950s is the best advice.
|
| The world is a mirror. It will show you whatever you are
| projecting internally.
|
| I strongly recommend investing in nutritional experimentation. My
| personal finding is that multi minerals, flax and sufficient
| protein make a lot of despair go away.
|
| You need to choose a frame for yourself. I'm having to process
| this myself.
|
| My friends who all worked in big tech, realized at 40 that it
| never ends. It's just awful politics and never getting to do what
| they want so they all quit and became entrepreneurs.
|
| My most successful friend is almost 60. He told me everyone goes
| through it.
|
| From My perspective, I realized based on listening to him that
| the worries never end. You will feel like this from 40 until you
| die. That's a long time.
|
| The solution is all mental.
| LimitedInfo wrote:
| Fix your mindset first. "I know the best of my life is behind
| me." If you think like this then certainly it will become true.
| vcryan wrote:
| We're all on a different journey. Another recommendation, read
| the book "Bird by Bird." It is about writing, but I think it will
| help you put take one step at a time. You have to learn to choose
| small things to do towards your goal, and to feel proud of
| yourself for taking small steps. You can do this.
|
| I'm sure many of the other recommendations have merit re: seeing
| a therapist. That route didn't work for me, this is how I live my
| life, bird by bird and it helped me go from suicidal feelings to
| being able to feel some pride and acceptance of myself and enjoy
| life again. I am in 40s
| adamc wrote:
| I got divorced (not my choice) around age 55, after 30 years of
| marriage. Our one child (now an adult) wouldn't even talk to me
| afterwards... I don't even know _why_. I do have a good job, and
| thank God for that... for a number of years (and in many ways,
| still), it was what kept me going. Severe suicidal depression hit
| me during and after divorce.
|
| I don't like the word "recover", because it presumes things, but
| you can climb out of that hole. For me, it took lots and lots of
| honesty and work -- and I got help. Even so, it took years of it
| before I stopped feeling crushed by my divorce/estrangement on a
| daily basis.
|
| You can eventually see yourself as a better, different person
| than you were before. I won't lie, there are days when the agony
| of it comes to mind, but... you learn to cope.
|
| In your case, what you have to grieve is the life unlived. I can
| get that, but you can still create a life -- even a good one --
| at your age. Mid-40s is not too old to have a wife and kids, if
| you know what you want and act on it.
|
| I would start with some therapy. They can't do the work for you
| -- and there will be a LOT of work -- but they can offer a
| different perspective and help get you out of the echo chamber of
| your own mind.
| oznog wrote:
| > I know the best of my life is behind me.
|
| Wrong Mindset. The best is yet to come.
| svilen_dobrev wrote:
| there is a proverb around here...
|
| "when the cart goes wheels up, ah, plenty of roads.."
|
| it is mostly always taken the forward, negative way (like "too
| late when wheels go up").
|
| But there is a backward, positive way. "if you want to have many
| roads... turn the cart wheels up." see Sacrifice by Andrei
| Tarkovsky.
|
| But maybe not exactly your situation.. maybe the Zen idea of
| "when you name a thing, it's not the same thing anymore (for
| you)" might be better. That.. works also for negative things -
| name your fear somehow, and it's not fearfull anymore..
|
| https://www.mindmate.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/label...
|
| stop looking back and comparing yourself to whoever. you can be
| great (fun) without being like everyone else. Find something to
| strive for. Anything. Go for it.
| DOsinga wrote:
| You say you have no current skills related to your education or
| previous employment, but in today's world updating your skills
| isn't all that hard if you want to - there are so many resources
| online. Wife, kids, house and meaningful work all are things you
| can still achieve in your forties and even beyond. It's not too
| late! You seem to be suffering from what the Germans call
| Torschlusspanik and maybe more. Get your mental health in order
| and the rest will follow I would think.
| Tangurena2 wrote:
| Yes, you can turn things around.
|
| 41-42 was the killer for me. Lost jobs (tech job meltdown in
| 2000/2001), broke up with long term girlfriend, car repoed, 911,
| mother died, condo foreclosed, storage shed sold at auction, all
| in a 10 month period. When looking back at that period, I
| sometimes wonder how I survived. When it all crashed down around
| me, some people I knew from online gaming took me in. All I had
| was a car and what fit in the back. Moving to a different state
| made a huge difference.
|
| 43 is not too old for dating. My age is too old for dating. If
| wife & kids is a desire, then it needs to become a total
| priority. I put it off, and as a result too much time passed by.
| To achieve a wife and kids, I have to rob the cradle. You are
| still in the dateable range of women in their 30s. 45 may be too
| late, 50 is almost certainly too late.
|
| I was saving up for expenses for a surrogate. Uninsured medical
| expenses destroyed that (even after the 90% discount they gave me
| for being uninsured). I had previously considered adoption, but
| Florida's child welfare dept decided to declare me "legally gay"
| and ban me from adopting in that state (several years after I
| left FL, the state changed adoption laws to allow gays/lesbians
| to legally adopt in FL). I had gotten involved in LGBT civil
| rights and the bureaucrats involved didn't think that any
| straight person would do that. Much like the thinking that no
| white person could possibly be involved in the Civil Rights
| movement back in the 1960s.
|
| /r/depression might be helpful. Others that may be helpful for
| you: /r/mentalhealth , /r/SuicideWatch .
|
| Exercise was helpful for me. Just walking about 30 minutes per
| day. In gyms, I find that I enjoy aerobic dancing. I found what
| works for me are group classes rather than doing weights or
| machines. I'm not trying to get all muscular. With group classes,
| I found that I have to fit to their schedule, so it makes telling
| bosses "gotta go, I'll be back in 90 minutes" as I can fit
| exercise breaks into my daily routines. This was extremely
| helpful when I worked from home.
|
| Therapy was helpful. I've used therapy whenever I had insurance.
| I know there are some places that have sliding-scale rates for
| lower income people. Most men of my generation would rather die
| than admit any sort of weakness.
|
| There is a DNA test that you can take that can help determine
| which anti-depressant medications would be helpful (or not). For
| example, mine said that I have a gene that makes escitalopram
| (Lexapro) not very useful for me (my body metabolizes it too
| fast). If your therapist thinks that SSRI-type antidepressants
| might be helpful, the test could cut down on much of the trial-
| and-error that goes into finding _which_ medication works for
| _you_.
|
| Keeping up with newer technology has always been important. In
| the 90s and early 2000s, my budget for tech books was about
| $100-150/month. Nowadays, stuff moves so fast that books are
| obsolete before they can be printed. I'm happy being a coder and
| I turn into someone I hate when I've been a manager/team lead.
|
| > _no vices at all other than severe procrastination and a
| masterful ability to lie to myself._
|
| Heh, join the club.
| autoexec wrote:
| So many responses already, I'll just add that if you desire a
| family it's not too late. I'd suggesting getting other parts of
| your life in order a bit first, but I know people who are getting
| into relationships and even marriages later in life (40s). Even
| children aren't entirely out of the question (although at this
| point they do tend to be older than infants). If it's really
| something you want in your life, don't think that it could never
| happen.
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| As a 40-something myself, also pretty much alone (by choice), I
| have had to think about this as well.
|
| What you are looking for to feel good is respect. Are you acting
| in a way that is worthy of respect? Fact of the matter is,
| earning respect is hard. Yes, it can be done through career, but
| it can also be done in how you treat yourself, how you treat
| others.
|
| It's easy to get lost self-pity, I've been there. The only answer
| is to pick one hard thing where you lack skills, and work on it.
| Just one. For me, it was being more outgoing. Anyone asks me to
| do something social, the answer is always "yes". Someone wants to
| come over for dinner? "Ugh fine", in my head, "Oh that would be
| amazing!", to the other.
|
| You are where you are potentially because you chose the easy
| path, instead of doing what is hard.
| MarcoSanto wrote:
| So from the looks of it you are in a negative mind frame. Use a
| professional mental coach (therapist, of course, not one of those
| "gurus") to help you reframe. It is never too late nor you are
| never not good enough. But you have to get to a point where you
| really believe it, not just superficially. A well structured
| mental coaching development path will help you reframe. Use the
| right tool, get into therapy.
| ws404 wrote:
| Bro you are are on the right forum. My family has a healthy dose
| of depression passed down. I can read it in every word you're
| writing. It's just a chemical reaction, you can defeat it but it
| will be tough.
|
| Achievement cures depression. Any achievement. Dead time
| exacerbates depression - i.e. watching TV, playing mindless
| games, porn, hell even reading sometimes (if it's trash and
| you're just reading to escape your reality - obviously lots of
| reading can be good). Quit escaping your life because it's shitty
| or it will remain shitty.
|
| So try this, set a small goal for yourself, either fitness or
| professional (i.e. a training course online, Udemy, etc. maybe
| refresh your BI skills with some modern Big Data type stuff). And
| just give that 100%. Knock it out, get the certificate, lose 10
| pounds. Just one small win. BTW I work in that field a bit - it's
| gotten so much more fun in the last 10 years than just running
| Tableau over and over. Cloud services have made analytics just
| amazing.
|
| Start there. The rest will come as you continue to set small
| goals and string wins together.
|
| Don't worry about what happened already. Shit happened, now you
| just adapt and overcome.
|
| Never quit.
| shrx wrote:
| I have a mild case of depression and I live by this, it has
| helped me tremendously. At the beginning it will be very hard
| to push yourself to start something new but after a couple of
| achievements you kind of get to anticipate the rewarding
| feeling at the end and it gets easier.
| [deleted]
| TruthSHIFT wrote:
| Yes. I completely turned around my life at 42. By being in touch
| with my true self, I've become more happy and successful than
| I've been in my life. Everything is so much better now.
| s3000 wrote:
| You are ready for a new chapter in your life. What would you like
| to do if there were no constraints? You have no obligations, you
| have no expectations to fulfill. What do you want to do, however
| unreasonable it seems to be?
|
| If you want a more constrained approach:
|
| > US$25k-equivalent in salary savings from a decade ago
|
| > I am becoming more bitter, angry and disillusioned
|
| Since you don't have to earn income immediately, you can do some
| volunteer stuff. Helping others should take care of the
| bitterness and the anger. The emptiness of disillusion will be
| filled with opportunities. On the days when you don't volunteer,
| do some sport because you will feel good.
|
| Then, try some job, any job, to earn money and feel the monetary
| worthiness of your time. It will look good on your CV when you
| start applying for the jobs that you want.
|
| Math hasn't changed. Brush it up and apply wherever you want.
| rietta wrote:
| You don't say your religious background, but these life issues
| are exactly the sort many Churches (or the analogue) have
| resources to help with. One on ones with someone who is either a
| trained therapist or has some counseling skills as a pastor. Mens
| groups in similar life stages to meet for meals and talk or study
| scriptures together. It really is a support network.
| haywood wrote:
| Not 40 but about to turn 37: I hired a personal trainer that I
| see twice a week with the goal of getting as strong as possible
| (not focusing on weight loss which I think is important).
|
| The change in 6 months has been unbelievable. I have put on a ton
| of muscle, gained a ton of strength, my metabolic health is now
| PERFECT, and I have a ton of energy and vigor which is spilling
| over into the rest of my life.
|
| Getting physically strong and fit is an incredible place to start
| when you're feeling directionless. And with a personal trainer
| all you have to do is show up for the session and do the work. If
| you can find someone who has a private studio that's even better
| (imo) because it takes away the whole gym culture aspect that can
| be intimidating.
| dbspin wrote:
| Not to knock your fitness achievements (well done). But OP
| pretty clearly isn't in the earnings bracket to afford a
| personal trainer.
| haywood wrote:
| thanks, and you're probably right. But I do want to say for
| anyone looking on, personal trainers can be way cheaper than
| you'd expect, like half the price of a massage, I pay 50
| bucks a session. Which again, isn't nothing, but in hindsight
| I would have payed way more for what I ended up getting out
| of it.
| kabanossen wrote:
| You have a wonderful life ahead of you. 43 is nothing and you can
| have all the things you long for.
|
| So I've ripped what people in the thread has written and compiled
| for you, like an action list. Hope it helps.
|
| - CONTACT A THERAPIST to find out if you have a depression or
| some other mental illness. Illnesses are things you can get help
| to deal with.
|
| - MEDITATION! Preferably do it in the morning but works any time
| of the day (when it fits your day) I like this one
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwQkfoKxRvo
|
| If it's too dopey for you try this
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inpok4MKVLM
|
| or this
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZToicYcHIOU
|
| Repetition is what makes meditation work, you'll be more present,
| more aware of the world you're in with less disturbing thoughts
| and feelings.
|
| - CHANGE TO A POSITIVE OUTLOOK OF YOUR LIFE. Your problem is your
| framing of where you are in life. Visualize building your ideal
| life and repeat the visualization every day. I googled
| "visualizing a better life" and got these, you can probably do
| better
|
| https://www.happierhuman.com/visualization-techniques/
|
| https://jamesnussbaumer.com/visualize-a-better-life/
|
| https://taminglife.com/improve-life-goal-visualization/
|
| - BROWSE THROUGH THESE MOTIVATIONAL IMAGES at breakfast and
| before bed, take notice when something applies to your life.
| Repetition is key, do this every day (and if you miss a day it's
| no biggie, just do it again)
|
| https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1yTrJkmUUFAzlhuQ5ZzyG...
|
| - AVOID NEWS if you can, it feeds your mind with fear, angst and
| anxiety
|
| - JOIN A SOCIAL GROUP (music, art, volunteering, courses, church,
| craft...)
|
| - YOUR LOOKS CAN HELP YOU - change your haircut and clothes to
| imitate your image of a happy and successful person
|
| - VISUALIZE THE HOME YOU'D LIKE TO LIVE IN, repeat regularly.
| paxys wrote:
| Step 1 of turning your life around is to get off HN, Reddit and
| 4chan.
| sgt wrote:
| Stay on the former.
| elf25 wrote:
| jimmytidey wrote:
| Here's a thought - through proactively seeking help by posting on
| HN, you just made it to the front page.
|
| You got feedback from people across the world. Some highly
| skilled (and paid) people stopped what they are doing to help
| because they understand and want to help. There are a lot of
| people who want to help. Some have been where you are.
|
| Most people on this thread are vastly more positive about your
| outlook than you are - some of them because of their personal
| experience. The only person who thinks you are completely stuck
| is you.
|
| As many other people have said, even if everything else is too
| complex, you need to get a therapist. Use your savings if you
| have to. If it's not working, get another therapist until you
| find the right one. It will work.
| soheil wrote:
| > Here's a thought - through proactively seeking help by
| posting on HN, you just made it to the front page.
|
| I thought your next sentence was going to be "now turn that
| into a startup idea to live happily thereafter".
| patcon wrote:
| I'm so sorry to hear you're feeling this way. I was struggling
| with suicidal ideation over pandemic, and it was a really scary.
|
| As someone who just came out of depression (brought on by some
| family deaths, stagnation, and pandemic), my only recommendation
| is this: Change something. My experience is that stasis is the
| enemy, rather than any one outcome being the enemy. To be more
| concrete, I've been told to fear homelessness or debt or
| solitude, but when I've changed things up without regard for
| these taboos, it's been surprisingly positive. Some of the
| happiest and most hopeful (and most physically healthy) times in
| my life have been while unemployed, while homeless, while living
| away from my established social safety net or possessionless...
| and at least for me, the levity and creativity of that mental
| space has always brought me closer to both strangers and friends
| (both those with families and those without). In my experience,
| there's a gravity to doing unexpected things, that causes humans
| to fall toward you.
|
| I've found the doing an odd thing gives you an immediate
| something to share, and the curiosity of ppl about the odd things
| you're doing (and learning about) can help bolster self-esteem.
| It's a wonderful upward spiral.
|
| I know not everyone is the same. (I am admittedly mostly an
| extrovert at heart.) But I just wanted to share, just in case.
| I'm just short of turning 40, and a recent change in cities --
| first to visit a friend and stay on their couch, and then to move
| -- has rejuvenated me.
|
| Also, please don't discount the fact that different cultures are
| navigating COVID VERY differently. It may be that your local
| culture is not suiting you. Some people choose to fight the local
| culture as a means of self-preservation, but if you are troubled
| enough to be contemplating suicide, then pls seriously consider
| sampling other cultures. Even if you feel stress about "leaving",
| pls know that this smaller departure is far better than the
| larger one that nags you (for both everyone who cares about you
| now and also those who will eventually care about you) <3
| mikenyc wrote:
| Hey man - Have so many feelings and thoughts in reading this.
| First, I'm sorry you're suffering. As an obviously articulate and
| educated person who is in reality fairly _young_ , I'm 100%
| confident you have so much more potential than you're giving
| yourself credit for. Also, as you can see from all these
| responses, there's more compassion and empathy out there than it
| might feel like. It's ok to reach out to people for help. It's
| great that you took this step. I hope all these replies can serve
| as positive motivation/momentum for you!
|
| I completely understand how deeply you feel these things, but I
| hope it empowers you a bit to know that I for one am 100% certain
| you absolutely can find love, have kids and get a job in your
| 40s.
|
| You mentioned wanting to move back to the US, which could be a
| great medium/long term goal. If that feels like what you want,
| I'd consider setting this as a goal on the horizon and then
| working backwards from there to put together a realistic plan for
| how to achieve this. Otherwise, set a different med/long term
| goal like moving to some other location you prefer or maybe
| getting a certain type of job. Setting a clear goal and then
| planning towards it can have a remarkable impact on getting shit
| done. It doesn't need to be perfect. You can adjust your goal and
| your plan as you go. Take baby steps, and celebrate the small
| wins along the way.
|
| Finally, since you have an engineering educational background,
| with remote work and online resources these days, my sense is
| that it would be so much easier than you feel to brush up your
| skills and start working again. The world is big and filled with
| quite a few CRUD apps! I don't have enough context to know what
| fits for you, but there are so many tutorials and online courses
| that walk you through practical exercises to build real stuff.
| Once you set a goal and put together a sketch of a plan, consider
| if it feels right to pick some online courses/tutorials and build
| some stuff to refresh your skills and give you some recent work
| to point employers/clients to. Some that I just happen to have
| seen lately: Buildspace (fun weekend coding projects), Replit has
| coding tutorials. I always like Michael Hartl's Rails Tutorial.
|
| I hope some of this is helpful.
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| This is very specific, but I was able to get my father into shape
| in his 40s. He completely neglected fitness from 22-40 due to
| work, stress, etc, but he did have experience from his teenage
| years.
|
| He is in his 60s now with a six pack doing pull ups to solar
| plexus, running, squatting with weight, deadlifting, doing push
| ups, etc.
|
| The whole "old-guy fitness" thing is not a meme - you won't be
| setting records, but you can stay in shape if you eat right and
| work out (assuming no pre-existing conditions). He also doesn't
| spend more than an hour working out a day, if you don't count the
| walks.
|
| He also got braces and it worked really well.
|
| I don't want to get into other things like "Get into IT", because
| I don't know how really relevant that is anymore. There is also
| the question of "Getting your stuff together" vs "Having time to
| enjoy life", which is a whole separate discussion. Good luck.
| simmschi wrote:
| 20 and 30 year olds, take note how often health is mentioned in
| this thread.
|
| One of the best investments into your future self that you can
| make is to take care of your health, both physical and mental.
|
| I know this sounds like grandpa talking, but drink moderately,
| don't smoke, eat healthy, do some sports. You won't be
| indestructible forever and small damages and bad habits
| accumulate.
|
| Your 40 year old self will thank you.
| remote_phone wrote:
| Your life isn't turning out what you expected, but it doesn't
| mean you can't be happy. You have to accept that happiness will
| be different than what you pictured in your 20s.
|
| My best friend that I've known for 45 years now was a fuck up. We
| are in our 50s and for most of his life he was lazy and
| borderline in poverty. He drank all his money away. But he's a
| funny, nice guy. He had girlfriends but none for a long time
| because he's not a keeper. Finally, he met a woman in her 40s
| last year and they are going to get married this year. They are
| planning on having a child, maybe through adoption. He finally
| got a permanent job as a teacher this year after struggling for a
| decade. He is out of debt. He is finally in a good place.
|
| You can turn things around but embrace the fact that it won't be
| traditional. It's okay, happiness doesn't have to be traditional.
| generalunited wrote:
| There are actually drugs that can help with suicidal thoughts:
|
| "Clozapine is used to treat severely ill patients with
| schizophrenia who have used other medicines that did not work
| well. It is also used to lower risk of suicidal behavior in
| patients with schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder." Nov 1,
| 2022
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clozapine?wprov=sfti1
|
| Medicine, therapy - and a group type therapy can help.
|
| Also consider career switching - I believe you can reinvent
| yourself at any age.
| [deleted]
| magicalhippo wrote:
| I too lost my dad almost 15 years ago, and was quite depressed
| both leading up and after.
|
| At least for me, what helped was when I started being honest with
| myself, and I started to accept my limitations and to incorporate
| that into my planning.
|
| I don't mean that in a "just give up" sort of way, but rather
| accept the limitations and find ways to work around those.
|
| I also found some Meetup groups and attended free
| meetings/events. Some technical to learn and network, others like
| hiking and cycling to counteract the negative thoughts.
|
| I still forget to be honest with myself from time to time, so
| every now and then I need to have a stern talk with myself to
| realign.
| college_physics wrote:
| Not professional advice but hey, you are asking HN :-)
|
| Imho if you start with the "wife" problem all the rest will
| either take care of itself or not matter so much anymore. There
| is simply nothing like having another soul to share life's joys
| and sorrows with.
|
| Given the gender distribution in our species, for every lonely
| man out there there is a lonely woman (who statistically is _not_
| on HN) so it is foremost a question of getting the two in the
| same subset of spacetime. How to go about it? Apologies for one
| more dry physics analogy, but for a two-body system to form you
| simply need the energy to go through a lot of interactions
| (collisions, near misses etc).
|
| It _will_ work out.
| decentrality wrote:
| Yes. Every story and background will vary, but to the question:
| absolutely, yes.
|
| People seem to be advocating for various forms of therapy, and
| that can be fine, but I believe you have a genuine mid-life
| crisis going, and ought to ride that like a wave. You have a lot
| of potential it seems like, but lack really great guides and
| collaborators on shared goals.
|
| I am aware of independent coaching that addresses everything you
| said, and there are plenty of people who can relate and advise in
| your circumstance. Someone needs to argue with you long enough
| for you to see that your outlook is not right or wrong, but
| ineffectual, inferior to your actual standard of living. That is
| what is peeking through here: a higher standard that will make or
| break you.
|
| Your outlook is dark but the other side from where you are does
| make this crisis worth it. You seem at the edge of understanding
| there is something else, not just something more. From there, all
| your dilemmas are solvable smoothly in due course. It is similar
| to the entry of a higher math into a previously inscrutable
| problem domain. You just need that higher math, to wield it
| expertly and advance its edge, and for it to click into your way
| of seeing all situations and your life overall.
| c22 wrote:
| I turned my life around in my late 30s, it can be done.
|
| At your age, and probably for another decade, a lot of women in
| your dating range will be feeling biological pressure to have
| children, so this is still on the table. Maybe look for a wife
| who has been too focused on her career to settle down but
| otherwise doesn't possess major personality flaws. Proceed
| cautiously since at this age major personality flaws is a big
| reason some people are still single. Also make sure you get your
| own shit in order before you seriously approach the dating issue
| (this should give you 2-5 years to work on yourself first). If
| you go this route be prepared to take on a larger portion of the
| homemaker role than you may have expected.
| plutonorm wrote:
| Look inwards at your emotions, observe them. Find where they are
| located, in the body. Analyse them. Learn to recreate those
| feelings by thinking and moving the body in just the right way.
| Our emotions work like our hands or legs, they are physical, you
| can learn to see them analyse them and ultimately control them.
| You have a problem where reflexive muscular memories are being
| triggered at a level below your awareness, creating emotions you
| have no need for. Dig into them bring them into awareness and
| shut down the ones that are not useful to you. Work out what you
| want. Of you don't know what you want, make that your goal.
| Meditate on it, draw, write, speak all of it. You need that
| moment of fight that you get when you are threatened. Do not be
| ashamed of that response or imagine it to be inappropriate or
| useless. Embrace those feelings that get you where you want to go
| and cast aside those which do not serve you. It's not easy, but
| at the bottom of all of us is a place of total belief, of
| complete power. Use that self that will not give in, give it
| power.
| digbybk wrote:
| Have you considered moving to a big city, even if it's not in the
| US, which I know is your preference? It won't fix all your
| problems but having more opportunities professionally and
| romantically might change your outlook somewhat. You're in the
| prime years to catch all the people exiting their first marriage,
| but not if you're in a town with a dozen people in it.
|
| I also fall into patterns of depression even though I'm married
| and doing fine professionally. I know someone here said that
| therapy is a very "American answer" but the fact is that for most
| of us the depression comes first and the reasons come later. You
| very well could get everything you want and be worse off because
| now you have no answer for why you feel the way you do. At least
| now you have some goals to work towards.
| helpfulclippy wrote:
| First, let's ditch the idea of "prime of your life." If you
| assign some magical value to the years you have already spent,
| then it doesn't matter what you do from now on, those "best
| years" are always behind you. Poisonous thinking.
|
| Yes, in our 20s and 30s we have lots of capabilities that we
| begin to lose when we are older. If someone told you that your
| younger years would be filled with something that it wasn't, then
| I'm sorry you were misled, but consider then that you have been
| misled about the limits of an "old man" at the ripe old age of
| 43.
|
| It sounds like you beat yourself up for not magically teleporting
| yourself out of your present situation. You can't. You can grow
| into something new, but it takes patience. A few years is
| actually quite a long time, and a lot can happen in them. All you
| have to do is be consistent. I know that sounds hard. For
| constant procrastinators and self-deceivers like us (or at least
| like me), consistency is kryptonite!
|
| I was very depressed for quite a while... divorced, unemployed,
| and alone in an unfamiliar city. I did two things that I credit
| with helping me find my way out. The first is, I wrote down
| several aspirational sentences. One was about the career I
| wanted. Another was about the relationship I wanted with a woman
| someday. Another was about the kind of dad I want to be. And the
| last was about the kind of human being I want to be. I wrote
| these down every single day. I tweaked them over time, and in so
| doing got a clearer picture of who I really am.
|
| The second thing I did was be honest with myself every day about
| something I did that helped me get where I wanted to go with any
| of those things. Early on, I had to teach myself to take credit
| for what seemed like very small victories. If I wrote even one
| line of code, I counted it as a win. If I took a walk or
| otherwise got some exercise, that was a win. Going to places
| where I might be able to network was a win, even if I didn't
| actually connect with anyone. If I had even just an interaction
| with a woman who I found interesting, I counted it as a win.
|
| What I learned was that I had no idea when things would happen,
| or how. Despite writing my statements down each day, I had a hard
| time seeing how I could find a partner in my situation. One day,
| I did. It was most unexpected, and I never saw it coming. But I
| think if I had not kept reminding myself what I wanted, I would
| not have gotten it.
|
| My life is definitely not perfect, and there is much I still want
| to grow into to really live up to those statements. But I can
| point to some of it and be very proud now, and I can feel myself
| making progress towards what's missing.
|
| Set your direction, and then learn to be happy with very slow and
| small steps, and eventually you'll find yourself taking giant
| ones in rapid succession. Good luck!
| dmead wrote:
| I'm about to turn 40 next year.
|
| My 30s were characterized by multiple open heart surgeries,
| having my metaphorical heart broken twice and generally not being
| where I want to be financially. I get where you're coming from.
|
| Sounds to me like you're stuck. Moving to the US isn't going to
| solve that. Moving isn't going to solve that. The other comments
| talking about therapy and confronting your problems are spot on.
| If I were you I would take some of my savings and invest in
| myself via therapy or whatever else kind of help you need to get
| back on track in life.
| anonu wrote:
| When you walk through a city pay attention to the construction.
| There's cranes everywhere. Roads are being dig up and patched
| over. Old makes way for the new. A human life is similar. It's a
| never ending construction project. If you think you're done
| building, i would argue that you're wrong. It's never too late to
| reinvent. And for an early 40s male it's certainly not too late
| to start a family.
| ljsocal wrote:
| Seems like more good relationships would be helpful. One
| suggestion so to volunteer. With your skills, you could help
| someone struggling with math, literacy, study skills, etc.
| Helping others, I have found, surrounds you with encouraging,
| positive people and that's infectious.
| lleb97a wrote:
| Don't forget that the journey is the destination. When you make
| the long process of change itself the goal, life becomes more
| interesting.
| Riverheart wrote:
| "Don't cast your gaze down. When your eyes are clouded, your soul
| darkens. That means your future is closed to you, and you lose
| sight of your reasons to live"
|
| The more doors you close the harder it'll be to motivate
| yourself. Many single mothers taking care of kids who need
| fathers.
|
| Also, you don't need to love yourself to love others. Some will
| say to fix yourself before you pursue a relationship but maybe
| being in one will motivate you because you'll have something to
| preserve.
|
| Finally, be compassionate to the parts of yourself that are
| hurting right now.
|
| Karen Faith - How to talk to the worst parts of yourself
| https://youtu.be/gUV5DJb6KGs
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| Lean in and say yes to everything. Always have time--even if you
| think it is impossible.
|
| Make sure you go to a big festival and dance your brains out till
| morning.
|
| Find someone flawed but wonderful who wants babies. Then have
| babies irresponsibly.
| justinator wrote:
| _> I let the prime of my life pass me by._
|
| It's not an easy ask, but you really have to stop believing this
| lie you keep telling yourself.
|
| YOU ARE ENOUGH.
|
| Therapy is a great idea, so is a support group. You're not alone
| (far from it).
| savgore wrote:
| I can't give too much advice as any authority - but I can tell
| you that a wife, kids, a house and meaningful work are not out of
| the picture for you. So many people will be in similar positions
| to you, and the comments seem to reflect that there's a pathway
| to be found. I wish you all the best in the process, and trust
| that you'll make it.
| TsukiZombina wrote:
| Lucky you it started until 40s, also I don't think you're old to
| accomplish your desires. Look for professional help and do
| actively something to change what you want in your life.
| rzazueta wrote:
| I went through something almost exactly the same a few years ago,
| and I'm almost completely on the other side of it now - far
| happier and with a new set of life goals.
|
| We are told that money and our jobs are what are most important
| in life. I mean, yeah, all the aphorisms deny this - "Money can;t
| buy happiness", "The best things in life are free", etc., but all
| of society is set up for us to sell the best parts of our lives
| to further enrich the wealthy while we're left with scraps. Your
| boss makes significantly more than you do, their boss makes
| significantly more than them, and the majority of the profits are
| directed to investors who contribute nothing of substance to the
| company. You take a job that pays well that you can tolerate -
| few of us "love what we do" because we're often doing things we
| don;t benefit from directly, are doing things we know are
| incorrect but that;s what the boss wants, or doing things we
| really don;t understand just to make ends meet. Quit your job and
| you will find yourself homeless and starving - at least, that's
| the message.
|
| You need to recapture the meaning in your life. I worked like a
| dog for years, traveling the world, leaving very little time left
| for the family I built, the family I wanted. When my father got
| sick, I had to move to be closer to him, but my wife and kid had
| to stay behind. We were separated for seven months. That forced
| separation killed my soul. When I took the time to stop and
| evaluate the situation, I realized I was so angry because I
| missed them - that all I ever wanted was to be with them, that
| even my job was a hindrance to that. When things settled with my
| dad and I could move back home, I tried to figure out how to
| change things so I could focus more on what matters to me - my
| family, my home, the communities that support me that I choose to
| support and participate in.
|
| I lost my job just before the pandemic, and all the interviews
| that seemed very far along suddenly stopped as those companies
| circled the wagons in the face of uncertainty. I watched my
| savings was rapidly dwindle. My family adjusted and started to
| learn to live with less - less eating out, less buying things to
| fill the void of loneliness we felt, etc. After a couple of
| abortive attempts to get a new job, I decided to just start
| consulting. I hung out the shingle on LinkedIn (Like you, I
| thought I had killed my professional network, but I have built up
| a lot of goodwill over the years that loads of folks were eager
| to pay back - I bet you'll find the same) and got a couple of
| clients pretty quickly. It took six months of scraping and
| struggling and borrowing before we had enough consistent income I
| could relax.
|
| It;s been two years now. I work from home and no longer travel
| unless absolutely necessary. Since I don't go into an office -
| and since I set my workload and hours - I have more time for
| things around the house. My garden is improving. My house is
| cleaner. I cook more elaborate meals for my family because I have
| the time and am in the right place to go and monitor things. We
| home school our son (he spends some time at a co-op style school
| as well) and I get to help - I often jump in with math and
| science issues and get to teach him things like programming and
| electronics.
|
| The point is not that you need to quit your job and start
| consulting - that may not work for you. The point is to sit down
| and figure out what actually matters to you. You already said it
| - "a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc." Do you have any
| of these things in your life? If so, it;s time to start
| readjusting your life to focus on them - these are the rewards
| for your efforts, you should enjoy them now as life is short.
|
| But, in re-reading, it sounds like perhaps work and life may have
| prevented you from finding that family. 43 is still quite young,
| and you have plenty of time left - truly - to find peace and love
| in your life. But you need to readjust your focus. Let go of the
| idea that your value lay in the money you make - that is an
| insidious lie used to control you and force you to work for
| pennies. We spend too much time optimizing for money as a society
| and practically zero time optimizing for humanity. You can't
| change the world - but you can change YOUR world. YOU don;t need
| to optimize for money. Figure out how to live comfortably with
| less - all we truly need in life is to be well fed, well loved,
| and well rested. Figure out what that means specifically for you
| - for it;s different for everyone - then put your focus on that.
| Make enough money to support your efforts in finding personal
| peace and happiness, but don't sacrifice your own happiness for
| money. You did that for 43 years - so did I - but, together, we
| can be done with it.
|
| Do you wish you were a happier, more congenial, more friendly
| person? Then _BE_ that person. Who do you admire and what do you
| admire about them? Impersonate those qualities until you can
| truly call them your own. And forgive yourself when you screw it
| up - because you will screw it up again and again. That 's not a
| personal flaw, that's just being human. Forgive yourself, love
| yourself, and learn from your mistakes. It's hard work, but it's
| the most satisfying and will pay in far greater dividends than
| any job you have ever had.
|
| And becoming a caring, empathetic person has a tendency to draw
| other good, empathetic people to you. Build a community of people
| who support you, and whom you can also support. Your friends,
| your chosen family, groups to which you belong that you genuinely
| feel improve your world - seek them out with patience for them
| and yourself. And make sure you stop on a regular basis to
| evaluate things - many call this a practice of "gratitude" or
| "counting your blessings". Done wrong, it's just toxic positivity
| - "Oh things are bad? Just count your blessings!" Done right, it
| can give your perspective as well as lay out the path for you to
| follow - "I have a lot of good friends, but I still feel a bit
| disconnected. Let's try engaging with them in a different way -
| being more honest and open, or spending more time listening than
| talking, or suggesting an activity for us rather than just doing
| whatever they want..."
|
| If you need help from a professional like a therapist, seek it.
| But you mentioned having a hard time getting access to mental
| health services. A therapist at this point is helpful as someone
| neutral to whom you can speak and get everything in your head out
| - like laying the pieces on the table to examine them and figure
| out why they aren't fitting. If you can't find a therapist, find
| a friend. or use ChatGPT. Or start a podcast or diary just for
| yourself and no one else, a safe space to share and explore your
| thoughts. The simple act of approaching these problems with the
| intent to examine and find a solution to them is often enough to
| unstick whatever is holding you back and get you started on a
| path toward a better life, so try something now and don't give
| up.
|
| You got this.
| bwhiting2356 wrote:
| try getting a little exercise every day, meditating for a few
| minutes every day. It makes a difference.
| sbst32 wrote:
| You can turn it around. As others said - try to find a therapist
| that works for you. It could take some time, don't give up too
| early. Also you should probably come to terms with the idea that
| you will require medication (antidepressants), and there's
| nothing wrong with that.
| unyttigfjelltol wrote:
| Look, figure out the resources you have and use them.[1]
|
| Don't worry about the past. Figure out generally what direction
| you want to end up in the future, and what tools you have in the
| present to move there. There aren't silver bullets. It's simply
| about healthy thinking, leveraging the tools you have, and making
| progress toward your goals.
|
| [1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yokQ0_8__ts
| mikelevins wrote:
| It can be done. I did it. In my mid 40s I developed a chronic
| illness that rendered me unable to work for a few years. It
| bankrupted me and sank my career before I found the right doctor
| and started rebuilding. I had to more or less start over from
| nothing.
|
| The life I've had since then is not the one I thought I was going
| to have. For one thing, I have a lot less money than I thought I
| was going to have. My professional career went in a very
| different direction from what I expected. My hobbies changed
| drastically. My circle of friends changed, too.
|
| Still, in many ways I think the life I have now is better than
| the one I was building before. I miss some things, but I'm
| happier with this one than the one I had before.
|
| So don't give up. Your best days may well be ahead of you.
|
| Get some professional help. It sounds like you're going to need
| to travel to do it, but try. A good therapist will teach you
| skills you can use to help yourself. Of course, it's then up to
| you to actually use them.
|
| Until then, train your attention to focus on things that help you
| instead of things that hurt you. It's hard to change what you
| habitually think about, but it can be done. Our minds want to
| wander back to familiar thoughts, especially ones with a lot of
| emotional power, but you can persist. You can keep turning your
| attention to more constructive things, and it will gradually get
| easier to do. Just don't give up when it doesn't get instantly
| better. It takes time and persistence.
|
| Telling yourself things like "I'm past my prime", "It's too
| late," "I let life pass me by" can't help you, but they can hurt
| you. So use your attention differently. Focus on what's in right
| front of you, not on what's behind you. Focus on what you can do,
| not on what you can't do. Measure your life by what you think is
| worth doing for its own sake, not by comparing yourself to
| imaginary outcomes.
|
| Choose things to do that you respect, and do them because you
| respect them. Don't worry too much about the outcomes; those are
| mostly out of your hands, anyway. Just keep your attention on
| things that you respect and believe in.
|
| When you do, sometimes what you do will help other people.
| Sometimes those people will want to return the favor. Sometimes
| those returned favors will turn into friendships. Sometimes your
| friends will help you.
|
| It worked for me. It might work for you. I wish you the best of
| luck.
| LargeCompanies wrote:
| leonardsensui wrote:
| In Life, there is no participation trophy in the end (Dan Koe).
| The idea is to find a purpose in life. Your situation has a bit
| of similarity to mine.
|
| I went back to in 2000 and eventually graduated with a Ph.D. in
| Social Welfare in 2016 (62). The Ph.D. was to fulfill my bucket
| list. Now that I am retired at 68, I was lost without a life
| purpose.
|
| I have been searching all my life for my destiny, my major
| purpose of existence to no avail. (The Gem Goddess) a pack-a-card
| psychic helped me discover my mission yesterday. I know this
| sounds delusional; however, she stated that my life purpose is to
| have fun and to follow my curiosity wherever I desire to go. I
| will constantly change my "life mission" but eventually, I will
| achieve it before I pass.
|
| Maybe your life purpose is similar to mine. My current curiosity
| to is to become a Creator on social media. Your MEng degree, work
| experience, life experiences would provide a wealth of knowledge
| for many individuals searching for solutions.
|
| I found you (this thread) through Twitter via a post today. If
| you are interested in pursuing a social media presence, I suggest
| you research Dan Koe's website. He has many free materials to get
| started, which is the current path of my journey.
|
| I hope this post has helped guide you to a possible bright
| future! Leonard
|
| Twitter: @LeonardSensui
| rmk wrote:
| Getting some sort of employment should be the first step. Work
| fills a large part of one's waking hours and is beneficial
| insofar as having some structure in life is concerned. Even if it
| is somewhat beneath your ability, having a job that helps you
| fill your days and get a small sense of accomplishment will do
| much more than any therapy or introspection will, all things
| considered.
|
| If you are gainfully employed, you will find that your social
| circle will also start coalescing around you, and some benefits
| will follow.
|
| Once you are employed, you can consider therapy. Do not neglect
| dating or forming romantic attachments either. It is much harder
| at age 43 but not impossible if you keep expectations in check.
| But I do not think therapy in the absence of basics is of much
| use.
|
| If you have a job, you can use money from the job to visit the US
| (assuming you have a visa or can obtain one), and get a taste of
| the life you miss for a few weeks every year.
| mpdehaan2 wrote:
| I don't post here much because I tend to hate the comments. When
| someone has shared a blog where I referenced mental health once,
| I was called out for it as "one of those people" and that's
| messed up.
|
| Yes, tons of people go through this feeling and you never know
| because they don't talk about it.
|
| In addition to info above - I'd share the following. You don't
| need these things to be better, necessarily, and anxiety will
| create traps to overemphasize the feelings of importance you have
| (and frequency) about certain thoughts. Comparison is also a
| source of dissatisfaction.
|
| I would recommend talking with someone who can explain the traps
| of magical thinking and explain some resiliency techniques, as
| well as researching this on your own (i.e. CBT) but also looking
| pretty seriously into mindfulness and some of the core concepts
| that got built up around Buddhism.
|
| People think of it as a religion but it's basically 2000 years of
| practice built up around mental health and understanding why
| people are unhappy and how to change that, and it solves it just
| by changing perspectives about thinking. Ignore the religious
| parts and it's still just as solid. Once you start to experience
| greater space between thoughts and understand some of the
| concepts about attachment to ideas and wants, and can minimize
| the concepts of "self", you can have a completely new
| perspective.
|
| Anxiety will create a way to show you that you need things and
| you can't get to the things you have, and you don't really need
| those things (you can still get them) and the stories aren't
| necessarily true.
|
| One of the dangers of programming is it teaches you to predict
| failure/disaster, and I think some of this thinking is an
| occupational hazard (running startups more so!) where you think
| you can anticipate how the future will work out and try to
| prevent "outages" of sorts, and this is something you have to
| avoid.
|
| We tend to value thinking and the idea that thinking solves all
| of our problems, but the foreground thinking we do is not the
| most accurate and best parts of our minds, and takes us out from
| observing the things around us.
|
| Finally, depression is _technically_ a disease that has a bit of
| a feedback loop in it. It 's difficult to reason in that
| situation. Don't make yourself try and don't worry about having
| timetables.
|
| I also recommend the exercise suggestion and having some easy
| regular things to look forward to, even if it's just a couple of
| classes at the gym. Even that kind of socialization is often
| enough.
|
| On the entrepreneurship question, I didn't have those skills
| either and still did ok -- that's just you probably wanting to be
| authentic and not fake. But making it isn't all you think either.
| Lots of people with a lot of wealth and success can still be
| unhappy, people with wives and kids can still be depressed.
|
| Hence I think really diving into the mindfulness aspects and
| trusting in neuroplasticity is transformative - things can get
| better, even if they only get 1% better every day along some sort
| of Xeno's paradox curve, they are still getting better.
|
| Even some basic supplement changes can make a big difference -
| vitamin D, adoptogens, etc. Rather than treating it like an
| experiment where you want to find one solution, it's reasonable
| to try a lot of things to make changes at once.
|
| Another analog is burnout is kind of a form of brain damage (that
| can manifest about worrying about other things) - it takes a long
| time to recover from, so give yourself some credit and
| empathesize with having whatever issues, but realize they are
| also not "you".
| gpcastle wrote:
| Psychedelics have changed my outlook and life. I recommend
| looking into them.
| srameshc wrote:
| It's never too late for anything. You have previous experience in
| BI/Analytics and it's still a good area to work in, lots of
| resources on the internet if you want to pickup a new tool. Focus
| on the positive aspects of life and count on your strengths and
| you will soon be on a roll. Walking/running has helped me
| personally both physically and mentally, so I will recommend that
| the most. Wishing you the very best.
| TheMagicHorsey wrote:
| A distant cousin of mine from India was in the same boat. He was
| a Mechanical Engineer from Osmania University in Hyderabad. In
| the early 2000s he came to Silicon Valley and was employed by
| Intel. He made a little money and bought a condo, he then joined
| a startup. Unfortunately the startup folded and he lost his
| health insurance. At the same time he developed some kidney
| issues and had to go on dialysis. His family convinced him to
| return to India so they could care for him.
|
| He really languished there for a decade. His health is a bit
| better as he received a kidney transplant, but its far from
| ideal. He has many complications. He also missed out on almost 15
| years of career progress due to his medical issues.
|
| Also, India is very prejudiced against men with health issues so
| he could not find a wife through the traditional arranged
| marriage route (it didn't help that he was unemployed).
|
| He sank into depression. When I visited him in 2016 I was really
| worried about him. He would not pick up the phone when I called.
| I started to write him letters ... he only answered maybe one in
| 10 letters. But I kept writing to him. I would send him books,
| and snippets of information on interesting projects I thought he
| would like.
|
| He was interested in self-driving cars many many years before
| they became mainstream ... so I offered to pay for him to attend
| the Udacity class on the topic a few years ago. He started the
| class but never finished it. I didn't mind that he didn't finish
| it, but since the course was quite expensive he was filled with
| shame and wouldn't speak to me.
|
| Finally, almost miraculously, something changed in him over
| Covid. You would think that in the isolation he would get worse,
| but he actually began to reconnect with his friends and family in
| the USA over Zoom starting in 2020. In late 2020 he started
| working on some open source projects in image recognition and
| some related math libraries.
|
| From that work he got contract work. Its nothing huge, but its
| enough to pay his expenses in India and build some savings. He is
| really enjoying working remotely for a team in the USA. They
| offered him a fulltime job in Minneapolis, but due to his health
| and not knowing anyone in Minneapolis, he decided to remain
| remote and work from India. But his mood is palpably better now.
|
| I don't know if its a turn around story ... but maybe the
| beginning of one?
| ciconia wrote:
| "Be the change you want to see in the world" is often used in a
| political or societal context. But it's the personal application
| of this idea that I find more interesting.
|
| The hard part is understanding want you want. If you have nobody
| to talk to, you can write down your thoughts (writing down dreams
| can work wonders for understanding oneself).
|
| I think having a clear idea of what you want gives you a better
| understanding of your life, and will help you to move to action.
| If you want to change your life, (and it sounds like you do,)
| you'll need to act.
|
| Start asking yourself: "what do I want to do right now?" Answer
| truthfully and then act on it, it's the best advice I can give
| you.
| rcarr wrote:
| I would do one of the following:
|
| - Travel. Maybe get your motorcycle license if you don't have one
| already and do a long journey such as the Pan American highway.
| But there is something about travelling that puts things in
| perspective and makes you appreciate life more. Going slow on the
| road is different to just flying into somewhere. It is more of an
| achievement. If this appeals to you, get a subscription to Apple
| TV and watch Long Way Up where Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman
| do half of it on electric bikes. They also have two earlier
| seasons but this one is probably more relevant to you as they are
| in their late 40s. The two of them are noticeably happier and
| carefree by the end of the journey.
|
| - If you want to stay in one place, create goals for the
| following:
|
| - A fitness goal. Choose something measurable in either something
| you've never tried before or something you know you enjoy. Maybe
| it's achieving a deadlift PR. Maybe it's running a 5k. Get a
| solid plan for it that you can stick to, either via an app or via
| a coach or exercise group.
|
| - An education goal. Choose something you've always wanted to
| learn or something that will help you with your career. Can be an
| app or a college course. Do 15 mins of it a day. Duolingo is
| perfect for this as you can see yourself progressing every day.
|
| - Choose a project. Can be something career related or creative.
| Work on it for 15 minutes every day. Set up a blog and write
| about your progress every day on the internet. There are super
| simple low tech options out there like blot.im and bear blog that
| do not require any coding skills whatsoever. Post on here when
| you have set up the blog so we can all follow in your progress.
|
| You need to get your confidence back and you will only get it
| back by doing challenging things. Start as small as you possibly
| can. If you have never ran before, your goal is 1 mile. Once you
| have achieved 1 mile your next goal is 2. Do NOT start with the
| goal of a marathon. If you do this and you fail for whatever
| reason (even for stuff outside of your control like getting an
| injury) you are going to fall back into the depressive mindset
| thinking you can't achieve your goals. If that happens and you
| have achieved a few goals already it won't have nearly as much
| impact - you can just pivot to a different training goal like a
| flexibility goal or a swimming goal.
|
| Get a copy of Atomic Habits by James Clear. It lives up to the
| hype.
|
| One more thing:
|
| Journal every day. Right down what went right, what went wrong,
| and what you can try out to improve things. Rant out on the page
| if you need to then get back out there.
|
| You've got this.
| dm03514 wrote:
| without addressing procrastination and the ability you have
| developed to avoid executing on your dreams, i believe that
| everything else will be or feel insurmountable.
|
| Nothing is at all lost, 43 is young, you are highly trained, you
| had skills you were happy with, it's infinitely easier to brush
| up on skills than learn them the first time.
|
| You have to execute to turn this around. I would set completely
| realistic trivial goals for yourself to begin with, so that you
| can practice executing and winning.
|
| Some examples:
|
| "Apply for a single job per day".
|
| "Walk 5 minutes per day".
|
| Things that you know 100% you can achieve. After achieving these
| for a couple days or weeks, sit back and celebrate, you're
| executing! you're taking the steps necessary to begin turning
| your life around. It is one small step at a time. Mark your
| calendar with green on the days you achieve, watch the greens add
| up, you are executing you are making strides to improve your
| life. Celebrate, keep expanding your goals.
| unknownaccount wrote:
| You should stop going on Reddit. It's like poison for your soul.
| itsoktocry wrote:
| I'm not sure I'm "good" at answering these kind of posts, but I'm
| the same age. I can't speak to everything, but I can to a couple
| things:
|
| > _I know the best of my life is behind me_
|
| Simply not true. This is a mindset thing, I think. I had a great
| time in my 20s and 30s, no regrets. But I wouldn't go back there
| for anything. Everything about being older and wiser feels better
| to me. Sure, I'm slowing down physically, but that's something I
| can (and do) easily work on.
|
| > _As I stand, I have no current skills related to either my
| education (MEng) or my previous work experience (BI Reporting
| /Analytics). I don't have ideas/skills/network for
| entrepreneurship._
|
| So, this is going to be tough in the short term, no lies. But
| it's not insurmountable.
|
| We're going to go through a little bit of a rough patch in hiring
| in this space thanks to the recession that's coming or we are
| already in. It sucks, but that's the way these economic cycles
| work.
|
| But it sounds to me you are related to a hot segment of the
| economy. Take this time to catch up on the state-of-the-art. Data
| literacy is not going anywhere. Learn about and play with the
| tools of the Modern Data Stack. There are entirely new roles out
| there you can get into in this space: Data Engineering, Analytics
| Engineering, etc. Take whatever work you can in the space to get
| something on your resume. When the economy recovers you'll have
| no problem earning a living in the space.
| adolph wrote:
| This is an excellent comment. Exerting the effort in
| understanding and modifying mindset is critical to success in
| other changes. Humans often focus on negative, risk avoidant to
| a fault of penny-wise/pound-foolish.
|
| https://medium.com/mindset-matters/who-said-the-only-constan...
|
| https://www.wendysuzuki.com/good-anxiety
| 1234letshaveatw wrote:
| Have you considered looking into a career in CAD support? I was a
| manager of a CAD support team for a while- my team was cohesive
| and did a variety of different things and made connections/were
| close to their customers. A blend of ME/IT is perfect for it.
| Look into moving to Poland and maybe Canada as well, a lot of EU
| companies seem to be outsourcing to Poland and Canada seems to be
| increasing their immigration quotas
| sensui000 wrote:
| In Life, there is no participation trophy in the end (Dan Koe).
| The idea is to find a purpose in life. Your situation has a bit
| of similarity to mine.
|
| I went back to in 2000 and eventually graduated with a Ph.D. in
| Social Welfare in 2016 (62). The Ph.D. was to fulfill my bucket
| list. Now that I am retired at 68, I was lost without a life
| purpose.
|
| I have been searching all my life for my destiny, my major
| purpose of existence to no avail. (The Gem Goddess) a pack-a-card
| psychic helped me discover my mission yesterday. I know this
| sounds delusional; however, she stated that my life purpose is to
| have fun and to follow my curiosity wherever I desire to go. I
| will constantly change my "life mission" but eventually, I will
| achieve it before I pass.
|
| Maybe your life purpose is similar to mine. My current curiosity
| to is to become a Creator on social media. Your MEng degree, work
| experience, life experiences would provide a wealth of knowledge
| for many individuals searching for solutions.
|
| I found you (this thread) through Twitter via a post today. If
| you are interested in pursuing a social media presence, I suggest
| you research Dan Koe's website. He has many free materials to get
| started, which is the current path of my journey.
|
| I hope this post has helped guide you to a possible bright
| future! Leonard
|
| Twitter: @LeonardSensui
| happyjesse wrote:
| Kye wrote:
| Early success is an outlier propped up by media's focus on the
| few who did it. Most big successes come from people in their 40s
| and older. There's a _long_ tail of fulfilling possibility below
| the top that can happen at any age.
| protolynne wrote:
| Hello friend, As a 40 year young woman, I went through very
| similar challenges and am still working through creating the
| motivation to move forward. I did get help from a therapist and
| have begun the process of reparenting myself, allowing for my
| inner child to be respected and have a voice. I would often jump
| into commmitments with work, school, relationship that were not
| right for me. Now, I am taking my time step by step to ensure the
| decisions I make are based on my desires and needs to avoid
| previous circumstances. At 40, I too wonder if I will be able to
| achieve the goals for a fullfilling relatiinship and family.
| There are a lot of us out here, thinking we are alone in this but
| we are very similar. I found a therapist I could talk to and this
| really helped me forge trust over time. If the therapist is not
| the right fit, try another. It's like finding a mechanic or
| dentist you trust so it's possible & important. Maybe the parts
| of your psyche that want to die, need to do just that but the
| whole of you can keep living. After my dear grandmother/ best
| friend, died a death with great suffering - it destroyed me. It
| has taken 5 years just to crawl out of that hole and begin to
| recover. Ppl don't recognize the value, courage and strain it
| takes to be there for the ones we love in their passing. This is
| one of the most benevolent acts a human can bestow upon another -
| honoring the sacred and brutal process of dying. Yes, an online
| or virtual therapist may be the only option for you but it can be
| effective. I have a dog who saved my heart. Forcing me to walk
| him every day gave me reason to get out of bed. My dog showed me
| every day that joy can be found in the little things like taking
| the exact same walk, every day but with new eyes. Walking every
| day helped to energetically boost and release toxins/ mindset.
| Given you hope to leave Germany, getting a dog would not be
| humane because you cannot commit to the long term. I did,
| however, used to dogwalk as a volunteer in a local shelter and
| this was very rewarding as those poor animals are stuck inside
| until someone like you comes along to brighten their day.
|
| Sending love your way as I know it's not easy. Like my granny
| used to say, "You're not old till your 87". She lived to 97 and
| walked every day. I miss her dearly but know she want me to live
| my best life so I continue to push forward in recovery. I
| recognize that sometimes emotional, psychological and spiritual
| death are a necessary part of transformation and rebirth. Like
| fire for the forest. From the ashes, you can rise
| koliber wrote:
| It sounds like do have a good number of things going for you
| from, based just on what you wrote and how you wrote it.
|
| Your English is great, and your writing clear and coherent. You
| have considerable savings, which means you were frugal when you
| were earning, and have made your savings last one decade already.
| Finishing a MechEng degree and working as an analyst shows you're
| intelligent.
|
| It sounds like you are focusing on the things that are not going
| for you right now. It would help you to speak more candidly with
| a trained professional. Finding a therapist that you can open up
| to and have good conversations with sounds like a good bet.
| ieisbeieieb wrote:
| A lot of thoughtful advice here so let me just say yes, I turned
| my life around at 44.
|
| Went from decades of "freelancing" which was a lot more like
| unemployed to a series of decent jobs and growth potential.
|
| You can do it.
| vietvu wrote:
| I am 30, for the last 15 years I have always been thinking: What
| the hell do I suppose to do when I am in age of 45-50?
|
| I will be old at by that time, not healthy, not smart and
| competent as I was in 20s. Obviously would be replaced by younger
| generations.
|
| And I will have a couple of kids too. I will raise them, work,
| earn money. All of my time will be devote to that. My days will
| likely pass meaninglessly.
|
| And in a couple of years I will be in retirement. And what do I
| suppose to do at the that time?
|
| The future sounds boring and scary as hell.
|
| I still think the same, and sometime thinking about it and it
| make me cannot fall asleep for about one hour. I don't want to
| live like that. However how do I want to live? I cannot answer
| it, I don't know.
| runjake wrote:
| I am 50 and can run 50 miles at a stretch, probably more.
|
| Stop thinking like that. Stop boxing yourself in with
| presumptions and "prevailing wisdom."
| white_dragon88 wrote:
| I'm 34, I see the things you see as meaningless to be full of
| meaning. As long as I reach excellence in what I do, and
| maintain focus and good health I can do anything. And I don't
| see that being something that I will lose with age, until I'm
| at death's door. This to me is the only way to be.
| jb-wells wrote:
| francisofascii wrote:
| You can turn this around. Start out with the big goals, "wife,
| house, kids", and work your way down to the more immediate goals,
| and then start with very simple goals which eventually lead you
| to your bigger goals. Write it all down. Start with very small,
| easy wins. Get a shower, get a haircut, a decent outfit to wear,
| creating a simple PowerBI dashboard, start a resume, apply to a
| job. You will start feeling good after your start make progress,
| even small progress.
| hobbitstan wrote:
| This worked for me and changed my entire outlook on life:
| https://krishna.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Science-of-Se...
| [deleted]
| askvictor wrote:
| Hang in there my friend.
|
| My meagre advice: start with one goal. A small, achievable one.
| Then choose another goal, or extend the first. Repeat. Keep track
| of your successes in a visual way.
| jelliclesfarm wrote:
| It's never too late. If you don't want to go to a therapist..
|
| For starters..based on your self evaluation, I would suggest:
|
| 1. Wake up at 4.00-4.30 AM. 2. Go for a walk within short
| distance of your neighborhood. 3. Start journaling...2-3 pages by
| hand. Write after you return home from your morning walk.
|
| Do this for at least 6 weeks.
| yodsanklai wrote:
| I thought I was done professionally in my 30s, was also quite
| depressed, I thought I wasn't good at anything. I landed a great
| job in a different field at 44. I don't know if I'm super happy
| _but_ with motivation, luck and work, it 's not too late for
| change.
| burner77562 wrote:
| 40-sth german here, currently working through a very similar
| problem, which is why I'll use a burner account.
|
| 1. Extending professionally with a background in BI reporting and
| analytics, it's easy to get freelance work in germany. Build a
| CV, send them out to agents (I can highly recommend etengo1,
| because they are transparent/open-book on the pricing for client
| and freelancer) - they'll do all the boring and tedious sales
| work you don't want to do. Keep in mind, that freelancing has its
| own stress factors (mainly instability and not being part of a
| team), which can aggravate your depression.
|
| 2. Enhancing your tech skills is easy nowadays, there are enough
| resources online. Play around with one or two interesting new
| skills as you see fit, put them into practical use with some toy
| project and write it down as a 6-month "failed startup" in your
| CV.
|
| 3. Therapists in germany are organized in semi-unofficial
| networks and will often refer you to collegues, if they feel that
| it's urgent and can't help you directly. Some networks offer a
| few out-of-the-order consultations to bridge the waiting time.
|
| 4. There's different levels of depression. It's vital that you
| are honest about them to yourself and to healthcare workers and
| use the emergency services, if you are feeling on acting on
| suicidal thoughts. They come in waves and while you might be just
| "a bit down" at times, a wave can drag you into acting on
| suicidal thoughts at other times.
|
| 5. German healthcare professionals do NOT have the direct
| authority to "institutionalize" someone for having suicidal
| thoughts (read that too often here). The only exception is when
| you are an immediate and real threat to yourself or to someone
| else. The bar for a forced institutionalization is extremely high
| and they are required to check the necessity with a judge in
| regular intervals. What they WILL do is thoroughly check if you
| want to voluntarily stay at a hospital to get you out of harms
| way.
|
| 6. If you speak german, I can highly recommend taking a MBCT
| course at the Benediktushof in Holzkirchen2. MBCT in general is
| meditation and mindfulness, enriched with psychotherapeutic
| elements from CBT. The Benediktushof is a former monastery and
| has a lot more courses for meditation, but the real benefit is
| getting out of your current surrounding and resetting yourself -
| it helped me tremendously, and silence never feels as loud and
| comforting as it does there.
|
| 7. Do not attempt to fix your life through a relationship, you'll
| just hurt yourself (talking from too many experiences here). You
| first have to fix yourself up to a normal far-from-perfect-but-
| not-depressive level, the rest will come afterwards.
|
| 8. Psychotherapy for depression is essential, medication is not -
| but there's a level of depression, where the latter is simply
| necessary for a psychotherapy to be able to work. If a therapist
| sends you to a psychiatrist to talk about medication, do it -
| even if your mind rebels against that.
|
| 9. While things like a regular sport schedule (and even if it's
| just taking a walk in a park for 20min) and self-help material
| will help you in early stages or mild forms of depression, they
| are no substitute for professional help in the later stages.
|
| 1 https://etengo.de
|
| 2 https://www.benediktushof-holzkirchen.de/kategorie/kw/bereic...
| S_A_P wrote:
| I don't know you or what you're going through but even though the
| above is true I would be saddened to know if you harmed yourself.
| Life is and can be tough. I'm posting the below not to try and
| play any game of "my problems are worse than yours".
|
| I'm currently in the midst of a fight with incurable cancer.
| There is a hope that they can shrink the numerous tumors and
| affected lymph nodes with chemo and I will have a risky surgeries
| shot at being cured. According to the very pessimistic internet
| my type of cancer across ages 8-80 means I have 2 years to live
| on average.
|
| Funny thing is a few years ago I was a contractor and was billing
| up to 80 hours per week. I missed a lot of family interaction
| doing this and I now regret working so long.
|
| So my point in all of this is health is literal wealth. And aside
| from needing to address your mental health (parents dying is not
| something you should just stuff down). It sounds like you are
| generally healthy but going through something. It may be tough to
| get through this phase of your life but if you do I'm pretty sure
| you will be happy you did.
| Magi604 wrote:
| I am sorry to read about your struggle. Thank you for sharing
| and I wish you a full recovery.
| tluyben2 wrote:
| > I know the best of my life is behind me, but I need help
| salvaging what's left of it
|
| Jikes. Think, like others said, you need to find help. I am 47
| and so far it's only getting better.
| dirtybirdnj wrote:
| Your life is not over, you still have opportunity ahead. I am 37
| going on 38 and I am just now starting to recover from a three
| year life struggle / burnout experience. I've had three really
| traumatic work experiences and I worked at a pizza kitchen and a
| kayak store for a while because I felt worthless and that I was
| no longer able to contribute to society and my friends in the way
| I used to.
|
| That last part was not true. Even if you cannot immediately see
| its effect you have value. It felt true but it's hard to get back
| on your feet and most people will kick you while you are down or
| feign concern with self gratifying pity.
|
| My advice to you is to sail into prevailing winds and lean into
| things that "fuck you back" as one of my favorite youtubers
| simone giertz said recently.
|
| Be open to directions and opportunities you may not have been
| willing to persue. After months / years of under/unemployment I
| took a job that wasn't exactly what I'd been holding out for but
| it's getting the bills paid and providing a stability to my life
| that's been gone for a long time.
|
| I missed out on some of the prime earning years of my life.
| Because society rejected me, not because I pissed on some
| electric fence. I've been honest and myself and I haven't had the
| support I wish I did. Life isn't fair like that.
|
| The best you can do is just try to move forward, do things that
| give you some value in yourself and seek out life experiences
| that will enrich yourself and others. Find some other people who
| are interested in your preferences and relationships personal and
| beyond are possible. Its cliche but sometimes it comes to you
| when you stop looking for it.
|
| so to sum up: I've had a similar life crisis, its been going on
| for about three years and I think I'm starting to trend up? I
| don't make nearly as much as I used to but at least I CAN pay the
| bills and I'm trying to work on a couple side projects that I
| hope will both get me some extra income as well as make me feel
| good for doing fun creative things that others can enjoy.
| kaon123 wrote:
| There are magic bullets. But I feel a few months ago as if I
| stumbled upon one:
|
| My regular sports team (ultimate frisbee) disbanded after the
| pandemic, so I found myself without any physical exercise. I
| thought I probably should go to the gym but realised I wasn't
| going to do it after work, and neither before breakfast. Also, I
| am 34 and have never visited a gym before in my life.
|
| Then I found a gym across my office which specialises in High
| Intensity Interval Training. They are group trainings that only
| last 25 mins. Including overhead (shower, dressing, etc.) it
| takes 40 minutes. This means my lunch break is about 1h15 minutes
| long, but it includes sports!
|
| It has transformed my wellbeing, and I feel suddenly I am acting
| on issues that I have been procrastinating on for years.
|
| Obviously there are many other things you could/should do in your
| life. And the other comments here are very valuable. But maybe if
| you are only going to do 1 thing... Consider this. Or consider it
| several years down the line when other things have worked out :).
| anonu wrote:
| You sound like Joe Rogan: you have a problem, just workout man.
| It's not bad advice imo, just doesn't apply to everyone the
| same way.
| anononaut wrote:
| It does seem that it applies to everyone in _some_ way, at
| least.
| hiram112 wrote:
| > They are group trainings that only last 25 mins.
|
| For a good 20 years - from early teens through mid 30s - I
| began and eventually quit various workout and gym routines,
| memberships, etc because I couldn't find the time or because I
| would dread going so much I'd invent any excuse in my mind to
| avoid them.
|
| My mistake was assuming I needed to go for an hour or more at a
| time, and also that I needed to do 20-30 minutes of cardio.
|
| It wasn't until my mid 30s that I realized I wouldn't dread it
| so much if I limited my workouts to 20-30 minutes max, and that
| I didn't need cardio (which I despise) and instead could just
| do some compound free weights exercise - just 4 or 5 simple
| lifts. Maybe 2-3 sets of 5 every other day.
|
| Since then, I enjoy going and have been consistent about it for
| years.
| gossamer wrote:
| I got my first real developer job in my 50s. I don't recommend
| this for many people. But it works for me. I am doing well.
| lumenwrites wrote:
| In the developed countries, average life expectancy is about
| 70-80 years. So you've got 30-40 years left, a lot can be done in
| that time. You're healthy, have the money, and an opportunity to
| live in the US - sounds like a dream to me.
|
| The world is getting increasingly more interesting, with all the
| crazy new tech, AI on the horizon, and just simple enjoyable
| things (new books, awesome movies and TV shows, cool new software
| and games to try out). Plenty of things to look forward to, very
| interesting to see how it'll all turn out.
|
| I was mildly (not very seriously) suicidal in my early 20s, I'm
| really glad that I didn't go through with that. Life changes in
| unpredictable ways, sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the
| better. I think it's worth seeing it through for as long as you
| can.
|
| There are more opportunities than ever to learn new skills and
| build new businesses. All of that feels overwhelming and hard at
| times, but it's a fun journey to step on, and to see where it
| goes.
|
| It's a meaningless waste of time to compare real life to
| hypothetical alternatives you can build up in your imagination,
| comparing yourself to other people is a recipe for unhappiness.
|
| I recommend aiming to compete with the yesterday's version of
| yourself, try to take steps forward and not have zero days, when
| you inevitably fail (as we all do) - pick yourself up as quickly
| as you can and keep going.
|
| Try to clarify what you specifically want to accomplish, and what
| stands in your way. From there it's problem solving, like
| debugging code, trying to figure out how to take the next step,
| how to do the next right thing (without getting too freaked out
| and overwhelmed by all the work that's left to get done).
|
| I have no idea if any of this is useful, or if it sounds like
| empty platitudes, but hopefully it helps.
|
| Also, very important - make sure to do all you can to take care
| of your physical health. Diet, exercise, sleep. It sounds boring,
| but it's very easy to confuse messed up brain chemistry with
| bitterness/anger/depression caused by other things. Going for a
| run on a sunny day in a park won't fix all your problems, but I
| notice that every time I do this consistently, life feels a lot
| brighter, and challenges in front of me a lot more solvable. Some
| of it is because exercise is rewarding and feels like taking a
| step forward, some of it simply comes from better health and
| brain chemistry.
|
| Regarding kids/family/wife - guys don't get a lot of actionable
| help, advice, or support in these matters these days. I'm going
| to risk recommending something most people will find
| inappropriate - "Blueprint Decoded" by RSD (you can find it on
| torrents). It is an old pickup course that was absolutely life-
| changing for me (and was one of the few things that really helped
| me with the whole not-killing-myself thing). I know how society
| looks at these things nowadays, but it would be wrong not to
| recommend something that was so incredibly helpful to me,
| something that had so much positive influence in my life. It is a
| place where you can look if you notice that the mainstream ideas
| and advice on dating aren't working too well.
|
| If not that - then take a class, or find a hobby that involves
| interacting with people (improv and roleplaying games are my
| favorite, but there are plenty of other options). Look at meetups
| in your area (meetup.com). That's a great way to expand your
| social circle and meet people.
| balls187 wrote:
| Pick one thing to work on, and start there.
|
| I recommend a job, because if family is something you want, it
| will be easier being gainfully employed.
|
| Simultaneously, you should consider mental health help to deal
| with the narrative in your head, as that self-talk is going to
| make it harder to "turn your life around."
| ROTMetro wrote:
| 50 here. Spent half the last decade in prison. Lost my mom during
| that time. Climbing back up to where I want to be.
|
| 1. Depending on the relationship, you will never get over the
| loss of a parent. It's not something anyone ever said until my
| mom was passing/passed, and then everyone that had lost a parent
| told me that in private. It's ok to be that way and from what I
| can tell the norm.
|
| 2. I pretty much always had upper management/executive roles
| previously. When I got out, I worked sorting human/animal waste
| and worse at a recycling plant. I dug through filth/trash with a
| 'pull 60 pieces of cardboard out a minute from a high speed
| conveyor belt' no rest metric. Now, I am back to my previous
| social status level. Don't get hung up where you are, keep your
| focus on where you want to be. When you went to the USA you
| didn't complain that you were 'stuck over the ocean' because you
| knew in a few hours you would be where you wanted to go. You are
| over a desolate ocean for a little while but it's a passing thing
| (if you keep moving, if you give up, you are a permanent
| castaway).
|
| 3. Anger/bitterness is just self abuse. The Universe doesn't care
| how you feel or what is fair. So keep your head up, stand proud,
| turn that energy into something productive. My wallpaper says
| 'Bellum Romanum' because I put all my energy into countering the
| indifferent/adversarial system that wants to keep me down. You
| are a good man, you went to care for your father when so many are
| too selfish to do that. That put's you in the top 5% of people
| easy in my book.
|
| 4. Get some exercise. If you can, to the point you almost pass
| out from fatigue at night. That will help clear your mind of bs
| made up self defeating thoughts at night. Get your
| anger/hostility etc out here (but don't hurt yourself). Start
| super slow though, you hot enough, you don't need health
| problems.
|
| 5. You can still find someone and start a family.
|
| 6. The fact you reached out means you don't want to end things,
| you just want a break from the crap you are going through.
| Remember that. You want a break, not an out. A break, not an out.
| In prison, you look to 'get space from reality' in little ways.
| We would plan out weekend rice bowls or burritos for weeks. Plan
| things out, give yourself something to look forward to. Maybe
| it's making cookies, maybe it's a hike somewhere new. You need
| something to look forward to, and actionable steps you can take
| to get there. We were 'making moves' when we would get vegetables
| out of the kitchen, we were showing we still had some control, we
| were 'sticking it to the man'.
|
| 7. Stop unproductive things. If you are a computer geek single
| male, I'm going to go out on a limb. No porn dude. Your body/soul
| naturally want to push you to the whole family/connection thing.
| Don't short circuit that drive, harness it. You will find
| yourself way less numb without that garbage.
|
| 8. One day at a time. No one did anything instantly. Yesterday
| you took two steps backwards (or more likely, life/the Universe
| pushed you two steps backwards), that's ok, because you have
| today, and today you can work towards how you're going to get one
| of those steps back.
|
| 9. You want community? Make it. Every single person who doesn't
| burn you, deserves to be in your community. You are no better
| than anyone else, and people are not tools to get where you want,
| even if where you want is just healthy. So you be that community
| you want for everyone else (who hasn't burnt you). You will find
| yourself in an amazing community before you know it. I had people
| make sure 'I was good' on Thanksgiving. I had people push me to
| relationships with my kids so that on Thanksgiving, where by
| default I wasn't going to bother my sone, I called him and it was
| an AMAZING phone call. But that's because I had people who had my
| back, people that have been thrown away in the eyes of others
| every day of their life. How many people who are yearning for
| community too have you just looked past/looked through? Don't do
| that. See EVERYONE around you. They deserve to be seen, just like
| you want a community to SEE you.
|
| I see you. You took care of you family. You are awesome. You are
| self aware enough to know you need a hand, and humble
| enough/willing to be vulnerable enough to reach out here. I would
| 100% be willing to have you in my community of friends. Keep your
| head up, keep moving, process your fathers death (remember
| anxiety is part of our grieving process, you lost stability with
| the loss of a parent and part of you will be in chaos), limit
| anger/anxiety/porn and other unproductive use of your energy,
| redirect to taking a step forward today, no matter how small, see
| people and treat them how you wish the world would treat you (as
| long as they don't burn you. Write off those that do, you gave
| them a chance). Make simple plans so you have things in life to
| look forward to (for me just waffles on the weekend can be that.
| Dude, waffle day is a good day. And grocery day is a good day
| because I'm getting stuff for waffle day vs I have no money to
| get what I used to eat and life sucks and poor me).
|
| TLDR - You can do this. I can see the details in your post that
| show you will even if you don't see them.
| kranke155 wrote:
| Your suicidal ideation seems to me a direct result of your own
| ideas about yourself. You say you're healthy and able but you're
| not doing anything to change your situation (which is admittedly
| crappy). You don't enjoy your life, even though you're healthy
| and disease free. I know someone who has a chronic illness that
| will kill them eventually. They work towards their goals and are
| generally a happy person.
|
| It's about your outlook.
|
| Basically: If you don't like your situation, change it. Can you
| change your life? The probability is 99.99% yes. But you have to
| change your mind first.
|
| I'd say see a therapist asap. Try better help . Com or some other
| remote service if you can't find one nearby.
| naruvimama wrote:
| mtalantikite wrote:
| The best of your life is definitely not behind you!
|
| Others have suggested therapy, and as someone that spent some
| years with a therapist I agree with that part, so I won't comment
| more on that. But I would really emphasize finding a physical
| practice of some sort. Finding a yoga and martial arts (muay
| thai) practice changed everything for me. Another comment
| mentioned you might be in Germany, and if I were there I'd go
| take a week retreat at Shaolin Temple Europe to study some forms
| [1]. He takes people of all ages and all levels there.
|
| [1] https://www.shaolintemple.eu/index.php?page=videos
| dogman144 wrote:
| Talk to a therapist first, but that disclaimer aside:
|
| I believe more or less that the world is built to take 30-50 yo
| and their goals seriously. So, there is hope if this is an
| outcome you want for yourself.
|
| Some people get a heads up about this intuition by how they're
| raised. There's also a first wave of people that landed in that
| by accident just by having a really productive 20s and realizing
| they have the right markers for people to take them seriously.
|
| Seeing those two populations start to succeed out of nowhere can
| be disconcerting.
|
| However, you are also in that range. If you start figuring out
| what markers make people take other people seriously in their
| professional or personal lives, and find ways to work towards
| those markers successfully, things can start to snowball towards
| you out of a rut and up and running.
|
| Then, you can steer that growth and foothold in any direction you
| want.
| jhatemyjob wrote:
| I'm 28. And my life is pretty good. Always has been, for the most
| part. So take this with a grain of salt.
|
| I would stop making threads like this. You're better off reading
| books. Some books stay relevant for centuries. Internet comments
| stay relevant for days. You have no idea who any of these people
| are, or if their advice is good or bad. I saw a few comments [1]
| [2] by people who seem to have some sort of self-awareness, but
| they are in the minority, most people in this thread are as
| clueless as you.
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34053261 [2]
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34052827
| thedeadgamer wrote:
| I know that you might feel alone in all this mess, but sometimes,
| seeing a character echo your emotions also comes into play.
|
| Might I suggest giving this a read?
| https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/56565/all-the-lonely-peopl...
|
| It is a free, well-written novel (must I say the story is super
| good in terms of quality) and this resonated with me. And again,
| you are not alone, and there are people out there who wish good
| for you.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| You sound like a great son who did a noble thing for your family
| and father. That's part of your story.
|
| It may be hard to internalize this but you are still young.
| Statistically, you've got half your life to live yet. Plenty of
| regular guys have kids when they are older (I see many new dads
| in their 40s, 50s and 60s).
|
| You've reached out which is good. You know something is off. You
| want to get better. You want to live which is your internal life
| force reaching out. It wants you to move forward with life.
|
| Suicidal thoughts are common, so when you mean ideation, have you
| come up with a plan? If so what's your plan? What steps can we
| take to prevent you from acting on that plan? If that means
| checking into the hospital do that. Your future self will thank
| you. You've got to put obstacles in the way to acting on the
| ideation when you are "clear headed".
|
| The next thing you can do is find a therapist. I know that when
| you are depressed it is really hard to do that. It feels like the
| last thing you want to do. Depression in its full capacity can
| incapacitate you and seems insurmountable. I remember being
| bedridden for weeks. Happened twice in my life. Eventually I
| recovered enough on my own but after going to therapy I've
| realized that therapy works way faster than self-help and
| medications. Self help can help push you along until you find a
| therapist or for the in between times.
|
| To pick a therapist just pick anyone qualified at this point that
| can see you today or tomorrow. Tell them it is an emergency. And
| keep going to therapy. Ask them to prescribe some actionable
| things for you to do.
|
| In terms of Actions that helped me in addition to therapy.
|
| 1. Quit all chemicals like alcohol and drugs. At least until you
| are feel better. Commit to that.
|
| 2. Eat 3 square meals a day of nutritious food. Go outside and
| talk a walk everyday.
|
| 3. Now watch a couple tv shows (if reading is too difficult):
|
| First on Netflix there is a documentary on Phil Stutz called
| "Stutz". He is excellent and provides what he calls The Tools
| (thetoolsbook.com). Watch this and then read up on the tools (and
| watch the youtube videos). You can pay for some audio and videos
| as well which may help. The tools is a set of visualizations that
| are useful for dealing with depression, anxiety etc... It can be
| hard to see when to apply them but go with it. Keep these tools
| in the background of everything you do.
|
| Second there is a tv show called Limitless with Chris Hemsworth.
| This show is about training your body and your mind together to
| handle stress. The breathing and cold exposure stuff is similar
| to Wym Hoff. Wym Hoff breathing is super useful as is the cold
| exposure stuff. Watch this show. Practice breath technique and
| cold exposure. Increase your stress tolerance. There are small
| safe exposure steps you can take vs jumping off the deep end so
| to speak. This is stuff like Wym Hoff breathing (lie down when
| you do it) and taking cold showers to start.
|
| 4. Journaling. Imagine you're writing about you as if you are
| your best friend. Write down what you are thinking and maybe
| start with a history of yourself. Try taking a 3rd person
| perspective rather than a first person one.
|
| 5. Medications like anti-depressants can help break the hold
| depression has but you still have to do the psychological work.
| You may or may not need them. They can increase depression at
| first especially in younger folks). A doctor can help here. It is
| important to tell them you need help.
|
| 6. Reach out to friends and family and connect with others.
| Invite someone out for coffee or if asked to go out do that. If
| you don't have any, volunteer where you can make new friends over
| a shared context. Even if you are not religious and the only
| options nearby are associated with a church, go volunteer.
| Consider going to church. It is important to connect with other
| people and be of service to others. Again you don't have to buy
| into the religion thing. What you are buying into is our shared
| humanity. You have to take the initiative to reach out to others.
|
| Stutz says that if you're lost, depressed or feeling stuck, it's
| important to work on your Life Force first. Your life force is
| like a pyramid. At the bottom is your body, in the middle is
| other people and at the top is yourself.
|
| Anyone can work on their life force at any time. What I've
| described above are steps to do that.
| gcheong wrote:
| A lot of good advice here (therapy, etc.) but one thing you might
| consider is just getting part-time job such as a cashier,
| barista, whatever. Something where you have somewhere to go and
| can put your mind to a task for a while but the job doesn't
| follow you home after so you can pursue other things more
| relevant to the work you eventually want to get. I think you'd be
| surprised how just having something to do can make you feel. It
| helps as well to have a daily routine that you execute ( and
| having a job can help with this) without much thought but without
| fail to keep some momentum up instead of just sitting around with
| your thoughts day in and day out.
| ahuxley2013 wrote:
| Pretty much in the same position. It sucks. I met a few
| therapists and they flat out turned me away and said I couldn't
| help me. Took 9 months to find a therapist and I have to say it's
| been a waste. No real change. No substantive advice that I can
| tell and no changes really, which is not really the therapists
| fault it's just the situation which can't really be changed. The
| notion that I have to just reframe the problems so that I feel
| better about them is not really a plan of action on how to
| resolve the issue/depression. The situations still exists, and
| from what I am reading this is pretty wide spread and only going
| to get worse in the US with the aging population and economy.
| rogerthatmix wrote:
| I've used and liked "Therapy in a Nutshell" youtube videos. She's
| a licensed therapist in the US. Probably not a replacement for an
| in person therapist, but could be a good first step or
| supplementary information.
|
| https://m.youtube.com/@TherapyinaNutshell
| debacle wrote:
| I have been turning my life around for the last 10 years. I will
| be turning my life around for the next 40 or more.
|
| You get out of the world what you bring into it. The lie that
| success is based on luck or starting point or whatever is not
| helpful. Everyone can start over.
|
| Two suggestions:
|
| - Ensure you are physically active, even a little bit. This does
| not mean "lift heavy" or "be a bodybuilder," it just means "maybe
| do a few pushups or park a little further away from the grocery
| store."
|
| - Spend some time around people who are worse off than you. For
| me, this has really provided context for how much of a gift this
| life is.
| donkeyofd00m wrote:
| It's funny. I was recently in a rut like yourself since 2020.
| Aibet younger, 28. Total 180 as of last month
|
| I work a good stable engineering job (mech, not tech), but am
| very bored of it. I clock in and out on autopilot. Unengaged
|
| I have many interests, but I don't DO many things in my spare
| time beyond reading or consuming passive entertainment
|
| I broke up with my girlfriend maybe 6 months ago, probably waited
| way to long to do so out of fear of being alone. Been on a few
| dates, but just going through the motions seeing girls who liked
| me but I felt apathetic about
|
| I have seldom but a few good friends. I usually never initiate
| any outing, just wait for invites to trickle down my way, trying
| my best to shield sense of insecurity in my social life
|
| -
|
| For some reason last month everything clicked like getting hit
| with a sack of potatoes. I just got rejected by a girl who I
| thought I was pretty interested in
|
| On our last date, I tried flirting with her in a way which was
| bold for me and out of my usual comfort zone (not creepy), but it
| felt extremely natural and right to do at that moment. It's
| funny. I didn't care about being rejected one bit beyond minnor
| sexual frustration. My pride in my honest approach stayed and
| lingered. And if she does not see the value of what I'm proud in,
| fuck it, nice girl, but we probably just aren't a compatible
| match! Nothing lost
|
| It's weird how the (my?) brain works that way, but my confidence
| and pride in myself shot up through the roof instantly after and
| has stayed. It reminded me of some very important things:
|
| 1. Social life, career and dating are all connected in the sense
| that REALLY it's not about others or externalities; you do need
| to make an active effort to bump shoulders with others, but the
| effort becomes easy if treated primarily as a self improvement
| exercise. Take any steps no matter how small to become someone
| you'd be proud of
|
| I thought to myself for a year "dammit, I want a job in X new
| field, but have no idea how to network into it, it's so hard!".
| Stayed dormant out of fear. Fuck it. I realised "Hey, I made a
| good impression with multiple friend's parents at a wedding...
| they worked long careers in something unrelated, why not blitz
| general advice from them? Can't hurt". I started calling them; a
| few duds, but others are really good at giving me soft advice.
| Just with small general tips, it lowered the anxiety bar to take
| action so much... the small things do pile up and can make you
| freeze up! It made me realise "oh ya, this isn't a scarry
| insurmountable task, I CAN do this, it DOES make sense for me and
| I DO have value to provide"
|
| 2. You may think you're inferior to others because you don't have
| X or Y. I did. But I realised it's not HAVING X or Y which makes
| you confident and fufilled, it's PURSUING X or Y, and all of us
| have all the agency in the world to purse what you want
|
| I have been telling myself for ages I want to join an improv
| comedy group. I already knew there was a place by me that gives
| lessons. Never signed up, because, I was scared to feel like a
| loser I guess. Fuck it. When that girl rejected me, I drove down
| there the next day, asked the guys behind the counter "alright,
| your website is confusing, tell me where to start, I'm signing up
| today". It starts next year. The act alone of pursuing my
| interests just shot my confidence up so much. I'm becoming a
| person I love again, and all it took was signing a form
|
| 3. You probably have a ton of great qualities in yourself, and
| probably have flaws just like everyone else too. But what people
| will sense is if you are focused on your qualities OR flaws. Be
| kind to yourself; you have a lot to offer, focus on bringing that
| to people
|
| Reading your post, I see a few things. In "the good" section, you
| mention many negatives. Severe procrastination, some savings from
| "that one time before when you were so much more cool than
| today", age as a negative. Dude, that stuff is fine! Everyone
| procrastinates sometimes, people have high and low points, people
| age. But telling yourself you're a severe procrastinator gives
| you an unconscious excuse to not make baby steps towards the life
| you want to live. Saying you're 43 unconsciously tells you you're
| too late in life to qualify for love or a good career. You're
| NOT. You're only too old once you're dead. Seriously
|
| From your post, I can see you're a caring as fuck guy (moving
| countries to help your dad... like, you really cared!),
| intellectually smart and curious (post undergrad degree, posting
| in HN), very self observant. You may think that's small. No.
| Don't discount that. It's great. It's fine to speak about areas
| you want to improve with peers, but remember, you ARE capable and
| can do so
|
| If you ever think you're lacking some qualities which you can
| achieve through action and are insecure about, just remind
| yourself of points 1 and 2. You can be proud of yourself today,
| and proud-er-er tomorrow with action
|
| 4. Don't be afraid to say no to things that don't feel right,
| don't be afraid to ask for what you want
|
| I turned down some of the girls I was seeing before who I didn't
| care much about. As soon as I did, I noticed my mental bandwidth,
| focus and confidence rose. I know who I am, what I want... very
| nice girls, but I want more than nice on paper or would bring
| social validation. I CAN be selective. I'm worth it. With what I
| can offer, why settle for less
|
| I recently went into a university psychology study for a girl I
| haven't spoken to since undergrad just for fun (we are all nerds
| here, studies are fun). Doing the study, I realised she is pretty
| cute, enough for me in the past to be scared to talk to her.
| Hmmm. Decided to ask her out over email once she gave me the
| study results like it was 1999. I was a little scared; I thought
| "oh no, do I look like a creepy weirdo? Does she think I did this
| study just to ask her out? She must have a boyfriend". She
| didn't. It worked. I'm seeing her this week. And if it didn't, I
| just wouldn't hear back from her while I'm still working on
| myself! Nothing to lose!
|
| 5. Peers help in so many ways. Humans are social and
| accountability is infectious. If you can choose between doing
| something you'd want alone (apply for job posting on linkedin) or
| with peers (message someone at X firm who posted that job on
| linkedin),try to always pursue the social option when apropreate.
| Always be pursuing new connections, as many opportunities in all
| categories in life can come from unpredictable connections. You
| will also develop commodore and be less lonely
|
| 6. Don't beat yourself up if you make mistakes or slip up, it's
| okay to have downtime after taking a shot at a step to make you
| happy. Be kind to yourself. I make mistakes everyday, but I don't
| lose anything with trying. When you get a few bites with
| progress, the confidence starts to snowball and your desires
| become much more clear
|
| Sorry for the length, but I hope some of this will help. You got
| this. Feel free to reach out if you want to shoot the shit about
| whatever
|
| Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
| mach1980 wrote:
| You and I want the same basic things. Among them food, sleep, and
| a home. Security and belonging. Love. The opportunity to
| contribute, be seen, and have meaning in our existence.
|
| It is when I forget these truths that I start to believe that my
| unfulfilled needs are due to something outside of my own ability
| to influence. A bitterness arises towards you who have these
| things and I construct stories about how you are doing something
| wrong or that I am superior to you simply because I have the
| strength to withstand not having those needs met.
|
| Beneath the shell, the facade, is a simpler but more difficult to
| digest truth. That my own need goes unfulfilled and I am angry
| about it.
|
| And here I find a self-destructive behavior. You have a desire to
| help me get or create what I need in my life. But my pride and
| fear of being vulnerable gets in the way. And underneath it, the
| shame of being a burden.
|
| With force I push back all attempts at kindness and care. I cling
| to the shell of bitterness and anger.
|
| In this moment I try to ask myself: Can I
| acknowledge to myself that there is something I can change that
| could change everything for me? Can you actually WANT to
| share without a hidden agenda? Can I let go of my pride a
| little, just enough to receive the help?
|
| Can I be humble, have enough self-esteem to believe in my own
| worth. To be worthy of the care extended to me by my fellow
| human? Do I dare believe in the inherent goodness of others
| actually wanting to do something for my sake?
|
| I let go of the need to be alone I let go of the need to increase
| my pride through criticizing others and being bitter towards them
| I accept the basic goodness of my fellow humans, even if I feel
| betrayed by them I let go of self-criticism and accept that I too
| am fundamentally worthy of love
|
| I create the opportunity for meaningful and loving interactions
| to exist in my reality
|
| The world has enough villains. I let go of my bitterness, because
| I have understood that it deeply reflects my own shame and guilt.
| With that, I forgive myself for my self-justification and
| judgment of others.
|
| I choose to live in a world where I can be vulnerable and open to
| receiving love and care. A world where I can give love and care
| to others without reservation.
| soheil wrote:
| See a psychiatrist immediately. Everything else here is BS.
| hoffspot wrote:
| "For what it's worth: it's never too late or, in my case, too
| early to be whoever you want to be. There's no time limit, stop
| whenever you want. You can change or stay the same, there are no
| rules to this thing. We can make the best or the worst of it. I
| hope you make the best of it. And I hope you see things that
| startle you. I hope you feel things you never felt before. I hope
| you meet people with a different point of view. I hope you live a
| life you're proud of. If you find that you're not, I hope you
| have the courage to start all over again."
|
| -- Francis Scott Fitzgerald
|
| Whenever I'm in a rut I just recall this quote and force myself
| to take a first step in a different direction. A lot of change is
| momentum based. You just have to start moving.
| gvko wrote:
| Not like I can give a good life advice, but from my life
| experience as a man knowledge about psychology and anthropology -
| you need a goal/aim to work towards. I say "experience as a man",
| because this is especially true for males. Everything else will
| fall in place little by little.
|
| And usually when someone doesn't know what to do with their life,
| I suggest them to learn how to code. This platform is the best
| one I know how to start programming:
| https://www.freecodecamp.org/
|
| Why I say this is because it's easy for anyone physically capable
| to start coding for free. And the job prospects are good. And
| consequentially, there is a high probability this will give you
| some meaning/goal/aim in life.
|
| Sorry, if this was a crappy advice. Just trying to help.
| throwawaydehe wrote:
| Me. Same age as yours. Lost everything, prayed for death every
| day for years. But things changed - I believe am much more happy
| and peaceful than ever. I started earning again (not as much as
| earlier but still enough for me and family). The turnaround for
| me was step by step and gradual, nothing dramatic. But what
| helped was seeking help. Pls find someone to listen to you -
| within family , friends , someone whom you can sit and talk to.
| This helps. I did not seek a professional therapist (where I live
| its not common), but I got lucky. Things moved gradually step by
| step, I lived a minimalist life , prioritised things which were
| important to me.
|
| I wish you good luck.
|
| You say: >> I know the best of my life is behind me, but I need
| help salvaging what's left of it.
|
| You really don't know if this is correct - you don't know what's
| in future for you, without that you cannot say the best of life
| is behind. Drop that thought and seek help.
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| The answer is of course, yes. A few anecdotes:
|
| - My father had me at age 44. Moved the same year into their
| first home, and he got a new break with a small business loan to
| start what would become a then famous restaurant for his
| generation.
|
| - My good friend and godfather to my son is living his best life
| now about to enter his 50s. He started a PhD program in his late
| 30s, and was going into his 40s with Covid upheaving all the
| universities unsure if he was going to make it. He preserved and
| received tenure.
|
| - Our pastor at age 58 was a deacon for decades, unsure if he
| would ever get to realize his dream of becoming a minister. He
| devoted most of his entire life to this cause. Most recently, he
| was traveling 3-4 hours to help our community with services, and
| because of his dedication was noticed by our bishop and was
| elevated to the priesthood for a new parish community, something
| unheard of if you know how these things work. At age 60 he now
| lives in a new place in a new home with a new job, and is
| thriving.
|
| The key strand in all of this was faith, hope, and perseverance
| (not necessarily in that order). I have been depressed. Most of
| my family are. Try to therapy if you can. Even if you don't
| "believe in it" simply having someone there to talk to can help
| you work through those thoughts you are having. What I learned is
| to be more forgiving with myself. You can feel depressed. It's
| ok. So many people do. It's unfortunately now a normal part of
| this broken world. But refuse to let it conquer you. Stand up to
| it. Battle it. Create yourself a mental advocate to fire back at
| those dark thoughts. Even if you think it' silly, then do it for
| silliness sake. Don't let those dark thoughts control you.
| Preservere. Keep the faith. Put one foot in front of the other,
| even if it seems pointless, even if it seems all for naught.
| Fortune favors those who try.
|
| You seem to know what the first step is. Take it. Come back to
| the states. Get involved in a community. There are so many here.
| Go out on a limb, try a place you never would think to go. If you
| feel like you are at the bottom, then you only have everything to
| gain.
|
| Wishing you the best, and praying for you.
| reeme wrote:
| 43 is quite young - you have time to find someone (marrying is
| optional) and get kids. 10 years of age difference in todays
| world is socially acceptable and quite common around the world.
| dazc wrote:
| I fell into a deep depression at your age as a consequence of a
| sudden lack of prospects, going from a hectic and busy lifestyle
| to sitting around doing absolutely nothing all day.
|
| I eventually clawed my way out and I look back now and just think
| it was something I had to go through. The feeling of doom and
| hopelessness does fade away over time and you will be in more
| positive frame of mind at some time in the future.
|
| On a positive note you have some cash savings and the presence of
| mind to ask for help. I'm not going to say there is some magic
| route you can take that's going to turn your life around
| overnight but the longer you hang in there more the chance of
| something happening that will provide the spark you need to start
| thinking positively again.
|
| I burned through all my cash, asked help from nobody and ended up
| living on the street. I still managed to recover though, so don't
| ever think your situation is hopeless.
| alexhackney wrote:
| Kids in your 40s are tough. I have a 21yr old and a 4yr old. I
| couldn't imagine having a new born today but several do.
|
| Life is what you make it. Find something that makes you happy and
| the rest falls in to place in my experience.
|
| Also therapy is very wise here. They can't _fix_ your issues but
| they help give you the tools to do it yourself which I found
| huge.
|
| Good luck and if you have or can create a group of friends around
| you, it helps a lot as well.
| andix wrote:
| You are 43 not 83. And you are a man, so even having kids is not
| off the table. Yes, it's possible to turn your life around. And
| yes, there are people who did that.
|
| But it seems like you are looking for help doing that. Its great
| that you are asking for help, I think this approach will get you
| somewhere. HN may not be the best place though.
| hinkley wrote:
| My friend's in-laws had this advice: your 40's should be your
| best decade because you still have most of your health and you
| have the money to do things. I've known a lot of pretty healthy
| people in their 50's who might say your early 50's can be better.
|
| Physically I feel younger today than I did eight years ago.
| Started tai chi, a new hobby that involved volunteerism (and
| manual labor), bought some land, and as others have suggested,
| found a therapist.
|
| If all goes well I'll be walking the local half marathon in the
| spring. Eight years ago a mile a day would cause me ankle pain
| for three to four days.
| prmoustache wrote:
| I'd just buy a bike, mount panniers on it and explore the world.
|
| But I am not good at advices.
| z5h wrote:
| As others have suggested: seek professional help.
|
| But also, the thing I try to recall when I feel the most "stuck",
| is that despite how anything external to me plays out, I will
| always have the opportunity for inner growth. I always have the
| opportunity to rethink my perspective, and to be more at peace,
| more content, more amused, more appreciative. Sometimes (when I
| really need it) I go through the exercise of thanking the
| universe for the opportunity to grow.
|
| Good luck.
| clnq wrote:
| I was depressed and NEET for about a decade too. Cognitive
| behavioral therapy helped me get a better outlook on life and put
| me on track to a successful career.
|
| My advice is to be humble and open-minded to things that can
| drastically improve your life.
|
| Do not think you are entitled to anything because you have a
| degree or for some other reason; let go of those thoughts - they
| can make it seem like you don't have an employment option "good
| enough" for you or that nothing you do could give you the
| luxury/quality in life you expect. Accept that you will need to
| start at the entry level. Let go of all expectations. It should
| feel very freeing.
|
| Then become open to doing the things that push you toward your
| goals. First, consider what you want in your life as a next step.
| Is it therapy? Is it getting a job? Is it something else? Pick
| one, and focus on that. Secondly, execute without judgment and
| thought. Once you plan, do it without thinking, like a ribosome
| translating RNA into a polypeptide. It doesn't care whether the
| protein it builds is good or "right." It just does it by script.
| And so can you. If you wish to do therapy, just show up in your
| sessions. If you want a job, just pick an easy entry-level role
| and attend the interviews. Whatever you decide to do, start
| executing and never stop. Even if you just do one task a day
| (like today you research therapists available to you, tomorrow
| you call one, the day after that you call another; or today you
| decide what job you want, tomorrow you research how your resume
| should look, the day after you update your resume, then you look
| for open roles, then you apply).
|
| Whatever you do, make it easy for yourself by removing judgment,
| expectations, and time pressure. But once you start, do not stop.
| beeburrt wrote:
| I'm 46, just recently got my self out of homelessness and
| addiction. Been clean and sober since June.
|
| I've been studying programming/webDev for the past year (since my
| last release from prison) with the hope of making something of
| myself other than being a 46 yr old ex heroin addict, ex con,
| etc. Looks dim for me, oh well.
|
| I'm in a similar situation as you (regarding depression. Esp.
| concerning certain thoughts of cashing it all in).
|
| I just watched a movie the other night called Stutz, a
| documentary by Jonah Hill about his therapist. If you can get
| past the parts about Jonah talking about himself, the Dr has some
| really excellent gems of wisdom and advice in that film.
|
| Keep your head up bro
| holler wrote:
| > just recently got my self out of homelessness and addiction
|
| That's huge! Congratulations, you should feel proud of making a
| positive change like that. Many, many people do not recover and
| don't make it. Many of them don't _want_ to.
|
| Life is largely dictated by our pesky brain and how we view the
| world. 46 isn't _that_ old, you still have a ton of life ahead
| and if you view it from the lens of breaking free from your own
| personal prison, finally getting the opportunity to experience
| the fresh air of tranquility, you might just realize the future
| is indeed bright and not dim.
|
| Good luck friend.
| bombcar wrote:
| Are you eligible to work in the US without going through the
| green card lottery?
|
| You mention you're in a small town; I am presuming that your
| country has larger towns and cities. Is there a possibility of
| getting there?
|
| You have $25k in savings, this is more than a significant
| percentage of the people _in the US_ - if you can work in the USA
| you could become a bus driver tomorrow; they 'll train. It may be
| worth trying for awhile just to shake things up.
| balaji1 wrote:
| To the other fundamental ideas in the replies, I would add what
| SM motivation content profess for similar situations: getting
| organized and working out to lose weight.
| sanitycheck wrote:
| One thing at a time. As a fellow procrastinator, I couldn't
| contemplate trying to fix everything at once!
|
| You don't think you're currently employable in a field you'd like
| to be in, but there's no question that you have the ability
| required to do those jobs. How about doing a bootcamp then
| entering the workforce as a "bootcamp grad"? Your previous
| knowledge and experience should make climbing the ladder from
| there relatively easy, you just need a foot in the door.
|
| If you're not currently eligible to work in the US, all is not
| lost. There are definitely more interesting and lively places to
| be than your small town, and if you're in the EU moving to one of
| them should be straightforward. Make a list of cities you'd like
| to live in, apply for jobs in those places.
|
| So now you've got a job, and are in an exciting new city. Start
| dating. Regarding fertility there are plenty of women in their
| thirties who'd be totally happy with someone ten years older, and
| many will be looking for someone to start a family with.
|
| You could do things in a different order, but if you find the
| relationship first you risk making more strong ties to a place
| you don't want to live and if you find a not-great job first that
| may inhibit your progress towards the life you want.
| erentz wrote:
| > I got my Master's in the US in the late 2000s and was gainfully
| employed there for a few years... > > Ideally, I would prefer to
| go back to the US...because I actually was happy there.
|
| There's a lot of really helpful replies here that I can't add to
| but this stood out to me. I think maybe you should focus on what
| you can do in Germany or remaining closer by in Europe. Life was
| easier in the late 2000s in the US than today, and you may be
| looking back with some rose tinted glasses thinking if you can
| just go back to that place in the past when you were happier
| things will resolve themselves. But it may not work out that way,
| and it may add _a lot_ of extra complication and work to try to
| make it happen (especially during this economic downturn), that
| will take time away from you doing other things, only to
| potentially end up quite disappointed.
| ihavespoken wrote:
| First off - thank you for reaching out - great step!
|
| Yes, absolutely. I'm 44 and starting to thrive. You can too.
|
| For me, going to therapy was key. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
| and Dialectic Behavioral Therapy are both effective and
| relatively short (< 6 months). These will train new skills for
| you to regulating the strong emotions and helping you with
| anxiety etc.
|
| Be patient and kind to yourself, we didn't have a lot of these
| skills taught to our generation. 1980s was not a time known for
| kindness and acceptance, for others or ourselves.
| eddsh1994 wrote:
| Therapy time! Check out online therapy providers if you don't
| have anything available locally.
|
| This is more my personal suggestion, but make sure you're
| exercising. It helps me, it helps many others, maybe it'll help
| you. Not a replacement for therapy but a really good way to
| improve your base.
| poulsbohemian wrote:
| Dude... your life has barely begun my friend. You've got an
| education, skills, a little savings... I guarantee there are
| plenty of people in this thread who would trade places in a
| minute. Get some therapy or figure out how to get your head in
| the right place, figure out where you want to go in life (career,
| family, relationships, hobbies, etc) and go there.
| rafaelero wrote:
| Start by making friends and getting a fulfilling job. Everything
| else will appear more tractable after that.
| rdl wrote:
| My priorities in your case would be: 1) Find a job/career 2)
| Relocate to a place you want to be
|
| The relationship/lifestyle goals are secondary to those (maybe
| ultimately more important, but would require and be consequences
| of improvement of those two).
|
| If your current skills aren't where they'd need to be to get
| hired, a quick 1-3 month deep dive into some niche tech which you
| could plausibly link to education to past experience would make
| sense. Then presumably remote work combined with trying to get
| visa sponsorship. Maybe broaden from US to US/CA/AU/etc.
|
| Maybe a therapist, but no personal experience with that.
| Objectively there are good reasons to be unsatisfied with where
| you are in life, but I'd personally rather just fix those reasons
| rather than discuss with someone why they are that way, etc.
| burner77562 wrote:
| On a sidenote: it helped me tremendously to read all the comments
| of people here, who turned around their life. Thanks everyone for
| sharing their positive stories and giving a positive outlook on
| life, helped me a lot to read them.
| m463 wrote:
| 1) don't worry about the things out of your control
|
| You cannot control many things in life, and trying to is a
| fruitless waste of time.
|
| 2) work on the things you CAN control
|
| the main one is you. work on yourself. improve your health -
| aerobic exercise 6 days a week, keep your weight healthy. eat
| well, not junk. sleep enough, not too little, not too much.
| exercise your mind, professionally and creatively. put stuff on
| your calendar (including downtime) and do it.
|
| 3) make some goals.
|
| you can meet someone. I have several friends in their late 50's
| and 60's who have met someone and married. There are lots of
| ladies around your age that want marriage and/or kids.
| digitalsankhara wrote:
| Yes to your direct question.
|
| I can only share from my own experience.
|
| You have already made the biggest step by acknowledging how you
| feel. Seeking professional help is a must. One to one, in person,
| counselling was much, much better for me than reading advice
| online.
|
| A good counsellor should help you untangle your thoughts and give
| you some structure. It will take time-it was in the order of
| decades for me, but I have underlying mental health issues
| anyway, but please do not put pressure on yourself for a quick
| fix. Be your own best friend and practice patience where you can.
|
| There are always options-it might not seem like it to you now,
| but there is nothing set in stone for the rest of your life and
| how you want to live it. All things are possible. The road to
| those possibilities may seem like it runs into an abyss as your
| mind, right now, wants to take you down there.
|
| During my trauma, I learnt that my mind was controlling me and
| not the other way around. My thinking was not rational, and I was
| reactive to internal stimulation-stuck in permanent fear mode
| from flight/fight thinking.
|
| Calming the mind is hard work and not easy, but with help I was
| able to move forward. There were relapses aplenty. Be prepared
| for setbacks and acknowledge them as progression on the path to
| recovery, not as a stick to beat yourself with.
|
| If I may, could I recommend some reading? During my worst, I was
| drawn to a feeling that I needed to wipe the thinking slate clean
| and gain insights into why I had such (recurring) suffering. I
| found texts from Eastern philosophy very helpful to help me gain
| mental discipline and open myself up critical deconstruction of
| myself so I could re-assemble with some tools for the future.
| Again, not an easy thing for me to do as it was hard to
| concentrate during those times but, eventually, it was easier.
|
| I not asking you to embrace any spiritual beliefs as you can
| ignore those if they crop up in texts, but perhaps to extract any
| wisdoms and lessons that appeal to you and help you feel better.
|
| Some of the books I found interesting; "The Power Of Now" -
| Eckhart Tolle, "How to Solve Our Human Problems: The Four Noble
| Truths" - Kelsang Gyatso, "Meditations" - Marcus Aurelius
|
| It was a slow journey, but eventually I realised that my mind was
| keeping me in fear and at the centre of a worldview of
| insecurity, doubt, self hate and blame. Books like these led me
| to realise that that worldview was wrong and develop the mental
| discipline to be reflective and mindful.
|
| I wish you every kindness wherever your path takes you. Be kind
| to yourself.
| photochemsyn wrote:
| Well, yes. You can definitely do this, but you really have to
| find something you care about and that motivates you to get up
| and go. Many people have changed their lives in their forties and
| fifties by doing this. I do think there are some ground rules,
| however.
|
| 1) Willingness to put in the hours of work required to acquire
| new skills, even if this may be harder for older people than it
| was when you were in your 20s. Set a schedule and stick to it.
|
| 2) Willingness to work with other people who may be younger and
| more skilled than you are in your new area, i.e. put your ego
| aside and accept a junior role relative to people who may be a
| decade or more younger than you.
|
| 3) Eliminating alcohol and recreational drugs, and getting your
| body into decent shape via an exercise program - it can be light
| exercise, but if you're working your mind all the time, you have
| to do the same with your body.
|
| There are no guarantees of success, of course. Some useful
| resources are community college courses in areas you are
| interested in and which might result in job opportunities, online
| forums of various sorts, public libraries which provide books and
| other learning opportunities relative to what you think you might
| like to do. Overcoming procrastination and laziness should be at
| the top of your mind at all times.
|
| Most importantly, it's just the feeling that you're moving
| forward that is worth the effort. It's like a fish swimming
| upstream against the current - at least you're getting somewhere
| - vs. a log being swept downstream by factors out of your
| control.
|
| As far as breaking out of a depressive episode, I hesitate to
| give anyone any advice, but psychedelic therapy (psilocybin)
| under controlled conditions has a good track record for many
| people, if available. I think adopting a program of physical and
| mental exercise is more valuable in the long run, however.
| gvh899 wrote:
| I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time. As others
| have mentioned, seeking therapy could be a helpful step.
|
| If it's hard to find a therapist in your small town, you may want
| to consider talking to your regular doctor about getting some
| medication to help improve your mental health. I personally tried
| this approach when I was feeling low and it helped me make better
| decisions and get back on track within a month or so.
|
| It's important to keep in mind that even if you've achieved a lot
| of success and have a happy family, it doesn't necessarily mean
| you'll always feel like a success. I've experienced this myself,
| even though I had everything, I felt like a failure.
|
| However, I have confidence that once you take care of your mental
| health, you'll feel like you haven't wasted your life and will
| appreciate your past experiences.
| Aeolun wrote:
| I've seen this part before. Sort of given up to hope to ever have
| a traditional family life, but they're now a few years older with
| a lovely young son.
|
| 43 is not too old to start. Of course, I also recognize that it's
| not quite as easy as all that, but in some ways it is. If I had
| to do it again I'd not be so sceptical of dating apps. At the
| very least it gives you a convenient excuse to meet new people.
|
| Not sure if it's possible to do it in the US, but there's other
| countries that are easier to emigrate to. I'm not sure if moving
| now would be conductive to your other wishes though.
| curious_cat_163 wrote:
| Your post is an accounting of all the things that you don't have.
| Sometimes, it is good to think about what you _do_ have.
|
| It sounds like you have an M.Eng. degree, an ability to write
| fairly clearly and perhaps a reasonable awareness of the future
| possibilities for yourself.
|
| You also have a goal: "I would prefer to go back to the US; not
| only for the dollars (they're nice), but also because I actually
| was happy there."
|
| So, work on it? Build towards it every day. Spend every moment of
| your life chasing it. YOLO.
| ivolimmen wrote:
| Weird how some people have a mid-life crisis. I am 47 and I never
| had issues with turning older. My parents both really had issues
| but it seems to have skip me. Maybe it's me; I also never really
| hit puberty.
|
| But focusing on you: calm down. It's never too late to start a
| family. Kids is certainly fun. If you you want kids and the woman
| you eventually find is too old for kids, adoption is also very
| nice and as a bonus you can skip the diapers period (I never
| liked that period of my kids).
|
| Since you would like to find a woman (good start): take a
| holiday. There are singles holidays and I can recommend them. If
| you do not get a girlfriend from the trip at least you spend the
| time relaxing and site seeing.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Small changes add up. Get some free weights and spend extra money
| on good (non processed) food. This will take 2 weeks of constancy
| to feel 10-20% better about life.
| PM_me_your_math wrote:
| Recognizing there is an issue to address is the half-way point.
| You are half-way to where you want to be. Celebrate that fact.
| Few people get that far.
|
| I think the problem you are having is related how you perceive
| yourself - your positive self-image has been destroyed and
| replaced with a negative self-image. Please read Psycho-
| Cybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Maltz. It is a fundamental life-
| changer that posits our actions and thoughts are a result of how
| we perceive ourselves, and that this perception is the result of
| our upbringing and experiences. This isn't just a self-help book.
| It is the grand-daddy of all books ever written that attempt to
| build a construct around the most complicated thing in the
| universe. I'd go so far as to say that book is the foundation for
| two generations of therapists and self-help personalities. I'm
| over-simplifying it, of course. Read it. If does nothing else for
| you, the epiphanies it creates will be satisfying and give you a
| much-needed perspective, for it seems obvious to me that your
| problem is mostly related to your mindset.
|
| It is never too late to achieve any goal or dream so long as you
| are still willing to chase them. Many people don't start a family
| until they are in their 40s. Some of the most successful
| businesses were started later in life. Some people don't find
| happiness (true happiness) until their 60's. This is life. Its
| different for everyone and there is barely any reason to it so
| don't try to understand or deconstruct it. Know thyself and
| nothing more.
|
| I was foolishly trying to find happiness in work or in the many
| companies I started; even if some were successful, it was all
| empty until I became aware of meaningless things. I didn't start
| a family until 38 and didn't find true happiness and real purpose
| until the moment my first child was born. In my view, this is the
| meaning of life. If humanity exists for a singular purpose, it is
| to have children. That doesn't mean you have no purpose if you,
| by choice or circumstance, have no children. Many people find
| purpose outside of our natural purpose.
|
| Absent of that experience, the focus should be self-improvement
| in the areas of mind, body and soul. Improve yourself and others
| will gravitate to you. Inside of all of us there is a light. Let
| your light shine. Your light unconsciously gives other people
| permission to shine.
|
| Ideas for entrepreneurial projects do not come from within. They
| come from outside and concern themselves with the needs, desires,
| and pains of others. If you try to sit around and think of them,
| you will not discover them. You need to look outside of the box,
| start with a customer in mind and work your way backwards through
| who they are, what they struggle with, and what they say to
| themselves about it (internal dialogue - the key to most any
| business is to get in between the conversation that takes place
| inside of the customer's head.)
|
| Lastly, if you ever wanted to just talk, I'm a great listener.
| Good luck to you.
| simmschi wrote:
| You are not alone, and you are not a lost cause. People change
| their life all the time.
|
| Start with both the most important and the easiest problems.
|
| You mentioned depression and suicidal thoughts. Take those
| seriously, treat depression like an injury or illness. You
| wouldn't ignore a broken leg or high fever. Absolutely get
| professional help for this illness. This is top prio. Do it
| tomorrow.
|
| And then there's also all the small things you can change right
| now.
|
| I've been in a similar situation a few times in my life, the most
| recent in my late 30s.
|
| Kids, work and family left me without any time for myself, which
| meant over the years I had nothing else left. No hobbies. Very
| few friends. No real interests outside of work and family.
|
| This also meant that any crisis in family or work hit 100x,
| because there was not much to compensate. I had reduced myself to
| a worker and family serviceman. I wasn't really a person anymore.
|
| It took me a while to get out of this mess. The path that helped
| me was re-discovering things that interest me and then pursuing
| them in a careful way. Reading, sports, computer gaming, side
| programming on hobby projects, open source contributions,
| cooking...
|
| Nothing special or unique, but all of these things I did for
| myself and not for others. I was slowly rebuilding my persona and
| reinventing myself.
| paufernandez wrote:
| I was for ten years (35-45) feeling similarly but I supposedly
| had a good, "stressless" life: wife, nice kids, full-time uni
| teaching post, etc. I realised this but was unable to reverse it
| at all. So you don't need to have problems in your life to feel
| that way, and it could be more your brain chemistry and the bias
| that it creates (the "dark cloud", I call it).
|
| At the beginning I had some anxiety crises and went to see a
| psychiatrist. I remember that they asked about sleep upfront. I
| was sleeping okish, but not great. After some time I noticed I
| started sleeping less and less (woke up at 4am and couldn't sleep
| anymore), I went back to a psychiatrist (different one this
| time). She said I needed antidepressants, and I read about them a
| lot, especially against. I wasn't sure. But in the end I tried.
|
| It took a while to "enter" that kind of medication, tried 2 and
| then another. But I was convinced somehow of trying until it
| worked. Everyone is a complex, beautiful "mess", so you have to
| find the way. But in the end Venlafaxine started working. And boy
| did it work...
|
| Right now I feel like I did in my 20s (I'm 47). I've never been
| as optimistic about my prospects, I think I can do anything. I
| used to think that I was finished, that I was bound to be grey
| all my remaining life. Now I've started doing all the stuff that
| I had stopped doing because of the feelings you are having
| (helplessness, strong anhedonia). I sleep so well now that I
| dream quite frequently and I think that has made my mind waaay
| more plastic. I've regained all the piano technique that I had
| plus I've leveled up significantly (Chopin studies, etc).
|
| I have the willpower (and the experience!) now to work on myself,
| and I think I've made a lot of progress even in interpreting
| events and not being so pessimistic, etc. Like I'm doing a kind
| of mild CBT because I want to invest, because I have hope.
|
| So my experience is that medication was a really necessary
| crutch, which in my case was quite necessary (that's my belief at
| least), and it solved "everything" in the sense of making the
| baseline so much higher that recovery seemed almost easy.
|
| But there is hope. One way or another, life will be awesome
| again. If you need me to tell you face to face, I can do that
| (@pauek on Twitter, DM me). It really helps to listen to people
| in a similar situation. Nobody seems to understand anything when
| you are hostage to depression, and that can dig the hole even
| deeper.
| INTPenis wrote:
| You need a partner. I'm only speaking from my own perspective but
| I used to think I was born to be a loner but having a partner
| awakens something in you, love basically. It's wonderful and it
| gives you a will to go on.
|
| And I know it's a slog to meet someone, trust me I know. But you
| just have to do it. You have to make an effort and weed through
| dozens of weird dates before you meet someone.
|
| For me it came completely unexpected. I had resigned myself to
| enjoying life, was at a computer festival and suddenly there she
| was.
|
| I know several people who turned their life around at 40, in fact
| I used to say that it's a cut off point. If you haven't turned
| yourself around by then, you might just end up dead. I'm sorry to
| be so frank, but that was how I thought before I read your post
| so it has nothing to do with you.
|
| But in my perspective it has been mostly career criminals and
| addicts. So that's where I'm coming from.
| balfirevic wrote:
| > You have to make an effort and weed through dozens of weird
| dates before you meet someone.
|
| > I had resigned myself to enjoying life, was at a computer
| festival and suddenly there she was.
|
| What you recommend seems to be the opposite of what worked for
| you.
| INTPenis wrote:
| It has worked though, I had just taken a break from that at
| the moment.
|
| Out of personal experience here in Sweden I'd say out of 5
| women I met on dating sites, 1 seemed like a keeper. That is
| after chatting for a while, the number is probably 5 times
| that for how many I've had contact with through dating sites.
|
| So I'm not very active, because I just think it's so soul
| crushing.
| nir wrote:
| Just my $0.02 (I'm a few years older): It's always earlier than
| you think. Don't let your perception of where you wanted to be at
| a certain age dictate what you can or can't do.
| AgentOrange1234 wrote:
| I think you can turn this around. You are showing a good
| introspective self awareness here which is very promising. But
| when you are feeling depressed, it's hard to see clearly where
| things stand, especially alone.
|
| Because of that, connecting with a therapist/coach to talk
| through things may really help challenge your thinking and hone
| your understanding of your situation.
|
| For instance, you have more time than you think. As a man, you
| can still have children in your 40s and 50s and beyond. So why
| does it seem like it's too late? A therapist may be able to help
| you reframe things, and help you find that hope again.
| disintegore wrote:
| There is a very strong chance that you are sick with depression.
| Consulting a health care professional should be your first
| priority, in my opinion. If you can't find treatment where you
| currently live, then it could be a good idea to move, if only
| temporarily.
| [deleted]
| tgv wrote:
| > I'm a pity case and an example case of how not to throw one's
| life away.
|
| You may not be envied, but there's nothing wrong with not having
| a wife and kids. I'm a bit older, had a relationship/marriage for
| 23 years, with a child, but we divorced. Online dating was
| depressing for me, so I live alone now (although I do frequently
| see my daughter), and I'm in peace with that. Currently worried
| about my elderly mother, though.
|
| You haven't "thrown away your life", that's American movie
| bullshit. Get a job, feed and clothe yourself and enjoy the
| simple things in life.
| ctocoder wrote:
| You are focused on what your life could of been / should of been
| and are devaluing the true gift you have.
|
| Get past that should of it is judgement that leads to no outcomes
|
| Could of is an assumption that did not happen.
|
| Your gift? Let me put it in a way that all who are in this
| community will read will understand. You are an engineer.
|
| There are close to 9 billion people on the planet. There are
| roughly 80 million engineers. You don't get to this level by
| chance but because you can, your part of the .8% of the people of
| the world who can build it. You don't lose your abilities they
| just get rusty.
|
| My advise to you is stop thinking about what should of or could
| of or if my dad was here as cold as this sounds. Instead keep
| pushing. Be what you are. Build something and then sell it-you
| are an Engineer you can do anything.
| DebtDeflation wrote:
| This is a great point. He has a Masters in Engineering from a
| US university and several years of experience in implementing
| "BI Reporting/Analytics", finding a decent job really shouldn't
| be that difficult. He is going to have to come up with a good
| explanation for the "what have you been doing for the last
| 10-15 years?" question since "caring for his ill father" seems
| to only cover the first year of his absence from the workforce.
| shireboy wrote:
| 44, somewhat in midlife burnout here. Plenty of better replies-
| getting professional help seems to be a solid recommendation
| here- but a few thoughts I don't see mentioned elsewhere:
|
| - Your life has value no matter what. Your worth is not measured
| in money, fame, number of kids, etc. I arrive at this several
| ways, but firmly believe even the poorest homeless guy's life has
| intrinsic value worth preserving. Life is certainly better with a
| little money and social support, so those are worth seeking, but
| you have value even without them.
|
| - I know when I've really been down two things help me the most:
| 1) Helping others. Find a soup kitchen, tutor program, some
| volunteer org and volunteer a few hours. 2) Being creative. This
| may be more personal, but is something I never _feel_ like doing
| at the time, but always helps. I watercolor mostly, but would
| also count writing, gardening, or really any non-commercial
| hobby.
|
| - The two things above may not be the end all, but may get you to
| a point where you are networking and have some drive to answer
| the other questions. "I don't have ideas/skills/network for
| entrepreneurship" especially seems like a solvable problem.
|
| Again, you can probably do better than some internet rando's
| advice, but thought I'd mention those. All the best!
| eastbound wrote:
| There are far too many positive comments about psychologists
| here.
|
| 39 here. Been seeing psychologists since I'm 23. Moved to
| Australia, came back, created a company, successful, donated
| thousands to charities even before creating my company. But am I
| any happy? No.
|
| Got fatter around 35, dropped sports, and Covid was the end of
| it, it's like a billion people willing to ruin the lives of
| people who already struggle socializing and have suicidal
| ideation, by shunning them down home.
|
| Went to HP. Did a few, ahem, crimes. Quite a few. Yes, it was
| revenge, for my sisters who are voting for all the laws against
| people who succeed financially, and against people who struggle
| socially. They call them "being social" but it's only being
| social for people they choose. As a man I love giving, and
| hearing that male white men should be shunned from the economy
| and from families, it's the most blocker of my life. There's no
| way around it, feminists win every time, the only thing men have
| is they work a lot and offset the feminist game, until my company
| will be taken over and will serve "a social purpose".
|
| I'm a bit back on my feet, I moved again, still have no steady
| friends but at least I have good employees and the startup is
| thrilling.
|
| Psychologists aren't the panacea. It's worth trying but they
| don't do magic. Sometimes the world is fucked up and you just
| need to pull through it. 90% of life is putting one foot ahead of
| the other, and some people have it worse than you.
|
| I wouldn't say 43 isn't the end of it, but for the time I've been
| seeing psychologists and opening up and taking about my feelings,
| well they still didn't give me the thing I needed the most since
| I was 15, an appropriate level of success with girls.
|
| So instead of giving, I'm taking back now. It's no good, but it
| levels the unfairness.
| advertising wrote:
| Best of life is not behind you. 40's are the back nine of your
| prime. You have the most knowledge and experience and still have
| energy and ability.
|
| Be careful of the stories you tell yourself because they will
| eventually become true.
| rsynnott wrote:
| > a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do,
| but I guess I'm too late for the first few.
|
| I mean, not necessarily. I know plenty of people who had their
| first kid in their late 30s, and one or two in their early 40s
| (though that is basically the end of the line, assuming your
| spouse is about the same age as you).
| josh33 wrote:
| Hi brother - just know you have intrinsic worth beyond what the
| world sees (or what you think the world sees). You have overcome
| lots of challenges in life to even get to your 40's; no one
| escapes challenges.
|
| Might I recommend an outward approach? Look for an opportunity to
| serve someone around you and evaluate how you feel after that
| experience. The lift in your emotions will also power you to
| overcome the next challenge you are facing/will face.
|
| I also strongly recommend therapy. It has literally saved my
| life. I had to bounce around to a few therapists before I found
| one that really resonated with me, but that external resource
| gave me a way to evaluate my life and decisions without my own
| bias.
| RadixDLT wrote:
| If I were you I would schedule a call i with stefan
| https://freedomain.com/call-in-requests/
| lakeshastina wrote:
| The foundational element here is your desire to change your
| current circumstances for the better. I highly recommend starting
| with one basic thing, to begin shifting your life in the
| direction you want it to go. It could be something really small,
| like getting up daily at the same time, making your bed and
| drinking a cup of coffee. If you can do a bit more, I would then
| recommend a daily workout. Starting to physically feel stronger
| improves our abilities and confidence to then go tackle other
| areas of our life. Regarding the career development, find online
| or in-person courses in the field which you studied or were
| employed in, to refresh your memory and skills. Then go seek out
| companies which are cash strapped, and will bring you on for
| little compensation. It would be a foot in the door, and you can
| switch jobs as your skills develop into competence that warrants
| better paying jobs. What you are seeking is not difficult, or
| unreasonable. You can absolutely achieve them. I wish you the
| best.
| kemiller2002 wrote:
| You need to see a therapist. Your problem is largely on your
| outlook on where you are in life. This is not meant to be a buck
| up or shut up comment, it's just that you can't improve your life
| until you change your outlook on things. You won't be able to
| move forward on things until you confront your feelings and
| accept your position to move out of it.
|
| To answer your question, yes. My 30's were a mess with a divorce,
| a parent with dementia, a kid who had a unknown behavior problems
| they said was autism, and trying to keep my dad's business
| running all while maintaining a full time job. You can get
| better, but you need help doing it and have to actively accept
| you aren't all alone.
| theteapot wrote:
| "See a therapist" almost seems condescending even to average
| people with average jobs.
|
| Did you read the bit about $25K in savings? Or the part about
| there are "no mental health facilities in the small town where
| I live"? How's he afford a therapist, time or money wise?
| cpsns wrote:
| > Or the part about There are "no mental health facilities in
| the small town where I live"
|
| HN is hugely biased towards people who live in cities. A lot
| of the posters simply do not understand how a lot of us
| outside the cities live, and the resources they take for
| granted that we don't have access to.
|
| For me the drive to the nearest therapist is measured not in
| minutes, but hours. That's impossible for someone who has to
| work full time.
| pempem wrote:
| There are telehealth options now and while thay arent
| uiversal or a cure all, it expands the scope of possibility
| [deleted]
| asveikau wrote:
| > a kid who had a unknown behavior problems they said was
| autism,
|
| Curious to know how that shook out. Did they get a different
| diagnosis eventually? Did anything in particular help?
| js8 wrote:
| I second that, I would suggest move to a larger city and get a
| job and therapist there (looks like the OP is from Germany,
| which I would personally prefer to US).
|
| And regarding to life goals, wife and kids in particular,
| although I have decided not to have a family, so take my advice
| with a grain of salt, but I think there are many single mothers
| out there who would appreciate a stable and solid partner with
| 2nd income.
| soheil wrote:
| I mean I don't know why people keep saying it's too late to
| have kids if you're 43. You could have a 20 year old by age
| 65, which is the time you could retire and have them move out
| after they get a job.
| ieisbeieieb wrote:
| I had my child at 45. I recommend earlier if you can but in
| my case it's been amazing.
| renewedrebecca wrote:
| Not sure why you've been downvoted. This is absolutely
| true.
|
| I would however be careful equating having kids to being
| successful in life. At best, they can be a joy to have. At
| worst, they can be little sources of chaos and stress that
| you can pass your own worst traits to.
| soheil wrote:
| Can't you deselect your worst traits with IVF?
| adaml_623 wrote:
| You could carefully choose an egg donor and a sperm donor
| who don't exhibit your bad traits. And then pay for
| someone else to raise the child. Dodge nature and nurture
| brailsafe wrote:
| Regarding the last point, that's shooting pretty low imo.
| Definitely a range of women out there between 25-35 who might
| be a catch, you just don't want to be desperate first.
| rjzzleep wrote:
| One thing to note is that while Germany is much better if you
| need social services, it's much easier to move between
| classes in the US. It's very hard to move up in German
| society without the right social circles which are also much
| more exclusive than in the US or London.
|
| That said, while therapy is one thing(and very hard to find
| someone that actually helps you out of your misery instead of
| reinforcing it), I'd maybe suggest creating a fixed schedule.
| Some basic cardio sports at a fixed time and day once a
| week(if that is too much once every two weeks). Ideally a
| group practice that gives some social pressure. It's much
| harder to get out a tough spot when you're alone. Maybe a
| beginner Capoeira class. No real requirement to socially
| engage if you don't want to, but warms your heart
| nonetheless.
|
| And maybe one usergroup of some sort once a month. No need to
| engage with people. Worst case, you just listen to some talks
| and get free Pizza.
|
| One thing that's very important in Germany when getting help
| is to never EVER say that you have suicidal thoughts. The
| moment you do that you slide into a bracket out of the social
| system that you can never get out of on your own. Any doctor
| or psychologist may now force you to take medication or put
| you in the asylum whenever they chose.
| formerly_proven wrote:
| That last bit probably applies to most countries, not just
| Germany. Though keep in mind that's a judicial process
| triggered by doctors and enforced by police, most people
| killed by police are in that "bracket" and nobody gives a
| flying fuck about it.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Is therapy better in Germany? I live in Hamburg and the
| waiting list is more than a year for therapy. I was under
| the impression that it is somewhat faster in the US
|
| When I lived in the UK they wouldn't offer me even a
| waiting list
| rjzzleep wrote:
| Having worked in Germany's healthcare system,
| specifically in Hamburg, I can only see one trajectory.
| Worse. The policymakers are deeply corrupt and doing
| everything they can to squeeze more money out of
| patients.
|
| You can book therapists online next week in the US, but
| they're not cheap.
| G3rn0ti wrote:
| > The policymakers are deeply corrupt and doing
| everything they can to squeeze more money out of
| patients.
|
| The problem is more related to the problem of ,,fixed
| budgets". Every health practitioner in Germany's public
| health system receives a fixed quota of money per
| quarter. In regions with few doctors and therapists this
| means practitioners would operate on a loss if they
| accept too many patients. That's why you wait forever for
| a doctor if you got bad luck.
|
| It's an effect similar to the case a private good is
| regulated to have a maximum price. This way politicians
| create a shortage of that good. You can have a public
| system where everybody is forced to have insurance (or
| receives welfare if one cannot afford it) but where
| healthcare prices are allowed to float more freely. But
| German policy makers rarely understand basic economics
| (or don't care) -- but they are acting on good
| intentions.
|
| That being said: There was a time I needed to see a
| therapist (after getting through a divorce) and didn't
| have any trouble finding a therapist around the corner
| within two weeks. Five hours were covered by public
| health care provider immediately, then the therapist had
| to write a proposal and another doctor had to sanction it
| as others described. The proposal was smoothly granted.
|
| Bottom line: Your mileage varies in Germany.
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| Go private if you can afford it. NHS therapy in the U.K.
| is basically impossible to get for most people, but there
| are many, many good professional therapists charging
| PS40-PS60/hour. Once a week or fortnight, it's worth it.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Unfortunately I live in Germany now where private
| therapists are far more expensive than that. More like
| 100 to 200 an hour. When I eventually return to the UK I
| won't bother with the NHS again
| throwawayhealth wrote:
| You can find therapist from other countries if you are
| comfortable speaking with them in english through video
| call. It may not provide the same experience but it might
| be better than the alternative which is no help.
|
| I would check out eastern europe or Asia. They will cost
| around $15-25/hour.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| Ask if they will take a sliding scale, most will.
|
| Also if you can provide tech stuff (like a website or
| what not) see if they will trade in kind services.
| bravura wrote:
| As I posted above, German public insurance is required to
| cover therapy if your GP prescribes it. So you can get
| private therapy covered if public therapists are too busy
| to take you.
|
| The process is roughly like this:
|
| * GP prescribes therapy.
|
| * You call seven public therapists who are busy and note
| their information and when you called. There's a specific
| form for this.
|
| * You find a private therapist that satisfies certain
| conditions (e.g. degree granted in Germany) that is a
| good fit for you, and your public insurance is obligated
| to pay for your care.
|
| Here's a long guide on it:
|
| https://www.bptk.de/wp-
| content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09_bptk_...
| bowsamic wrote:
| It's for complicated reasons but I've been informed
| that's not possible in my situation because I don't speak
| German
| schrodinger wrote:
| Yes, you can easily find a meeting for the same week
| (maybe same day) in the US. The downside is the better
| ones are picky about taking insurance (i.e. you might
| have to pay 40% yourself and then submit the bill to your
| insurance company to get reimbursed the 60%) because most
| insurance companies pay really low rates for mental
| health. From what I've heard Aetna is the best.
| ajmurmann wrote:
| I've been able to get a therapist appointment within a
| few days in the US.
| bowsamic wrote:
| I think the US has a stronger therapy culture. It reminds
| me of how in the US pain relief medicine is much more
| common, while in Germany a lot of people won't even take
| paracetamol
| formerly_proven wrote:
| Oh yeah definitely. In online US circles it often seems
| like almost every other person utilized therapy at some
| point, in Germany it's pretty taboo, i.e. therapy is for
| the mentally ill. There are various euphemisms for
| totally-not-therapy therapy (e.g. coaching or
| supervision) in German because if you say you did or do
| therapy you instantly go in the loony bin.
| starkd wrote:
| >>One thing that's very important in Germany when getting
| help is to never EVER say that you have suicidal thoughts.
| The moment you do that you slide into a bracket out of the
| social system that you can never get out of on your own.
| Any doctor or psychologist may now force you to take
| medication or put you in the asylum whenever they chose.
|
| That is terrifying. Those medications are mediocre in the
| long-term. If you have a problem with a side-effect and
| they deem it trivial, you may be forced to take a medicine
| for life. Some of the alternative approaches to medicine
| are proving far superior for moderate level depressions
| (which can still be suicidal ideation).
| dark-star wrote:
| It's as terrifying as it is wrong. Nobody ever forces you
| to take meds or being put into an "asylum". ESPECIALLY in
| Germany. I have no idea where this idea comes from but it
| is not true at all
|
| Disclaimer: I have two very close friends and one
| relative who struggled with suicidal thoughts. None of
| them were put on meds against their will, or put into an
| "asylum". There was staionary therapy though, sometimes
| multiple ones, but not against their will
| sveme wrote:
| It's shocking that people write that kind of
| misinformation and it is upvoted so highly at the same
| time. The threshold to be forcibly put into a closed
| psychiatry ward is enormously high.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| In a practical sense, is it not a similar case in US? The
| moment you are flagged in a hospital system as a suicide
| risk it follows you.
| sveme wrote:
| Sorry, but the last bit is complete and utter bollocks.
| Never, ever don't mention this. Please delete this
| dangerous misinformation that might keep people from
| looking for help in times of need.
| A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
| Parent appears to be giving a practical suggestion on how
| to literally survive in a society. If it is true that it
| flags you, then why would you qualify it as
| misinformation? For the record, I have almost no
| knowledge of how Germany healthcare works in that regard.
| sveme wrote:
| There is no flagging. Who should flag you, and where? I
| know quite some people that were in these situations, no
| one experienced any such consequences.
| breck wrote:
| mradek wrote:
| How do u find a therapist? I'm a bit weary to discuss super
| personal things with someone I don't know even if they're a
| professional.
|
| How can I find someone I trust and is actually good? Not like
| the movies where the clock is up and ok next issue.
|
| My work offers a mental health service but I've looked at their
| TOS and no thanks.
|
| Sometimes I feel like just suspending the world background
| process and being still would be nice. But I don't have sudo.
| kemiller2002 wrote:
| If you have a doctor, I would start there by asking that
| person if there is someone they would recommend. It may take
| a few attempts to find someone you're comfortable with. The
| first session or 2 will be around both of you figuring out if
| it's a good fit. It may not be. Most therapists have a bio
| describing their approach to their practice and their
| beliefs.
|
| Remember, if you meet a therapist and you aren't feeling it
| isn't a good fit, that's ok. There is nothing wrong with you
| (or them), it's just not a good fit. Be honest in your
| feelings, and don't worry about disappointing anyone in the
| process. This is about you and what's best for you.
| Spoom wrote:
| If you go by your GP's recommendation, _do not_ think that
| if you don 't get along with them, that you won't get along
| with other therapists, or that there's something wrong with
| you. My GP suggested someone in the same building, and
| they... were not great, for me. The therapist I found on my
| own (through looking at reviews and whatnot) was much
| better.
| zebnyc wrote:
| >Sometimes I feel like just suspending the world background
| process and being still would be nice. But I don't have sudo.
|
| You absolutely can do this if you go on a meditation retreat.
| I went to https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search though
| I am sure you can find other schools of meditation. My
| experience was that you are not allowed to talk for the
| duration of the course and just focus on breathing &
| meditation (10 days in my case). It brought a great deal of
| calm and focus into my life.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Therapy being limited to a scheduled window of time is a big
| part of how therapy works. You're paying a professional for
| their time.
| ambicapter wrote:
| > I'm a bit weary to discuss super personal things with
| someone I don't know even if they're a professional.
|
| You don't have to unpack everything in the first session.
| Generally you want someone who is trying to build a one-on-
| one relationship with you where you feel comfortable doing
| this.
|
| > Not like the movies where the clock is up and ok next
| issue.
|
| I mean, all appointments end at a certain time and then you
| get up and leave.
|
| > Sometimes I feel like just suspending the world background
| process and being still would be nice.
|
| You could try meditation. I do both therapy and meditation.
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| > How can I find someone I trust and is actually good?
|
| It's like dating. I think within the first 4-5 visits you'll
| know if someone is trustworthy and is giving you some
| insight. Note, they won't be able to give you the really
| great insights until you feel you can trust them, but they
| should be able to give you a couple of things to ponder / act
| upon even in the initial stages.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I have found online services to be OK when I was struggling
| with a difficult time. Mindbloom, Betterhelp, and Cerebral
| were fine for what they were. They got me through the first
| steps for a slight cost. After that, momentum builds. There's
| no silver bullet.
| yunwal wrote:
| FWIW, my experiences with betterhelp were absolutely
| terrible. I had a therapist ghost me, and another one that
| would respond with answers so generic I would've been
| better off talking to a chatbot (I sort of suspect that's
| what I was doing).
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I am not surprised. I had to switch therapists a few
| times. Ultimately I started to remember my self care
| strategies and stopped seeing a therapist. Though the
| medicine is a big help.
|
| I still believe that _any_ therapist is better than none,
| because it forces you to do _something_ , which will
| change the narrative from "it's hopeless" to " I'm
| working on it just haven't found the right match". That
| shift alone is worth the cost.
| jijji wrote:
| First of all don't suspend your background processes with
| sudo, that is only going to prevent the money from coming in
| everyday... then you've got Google maps you can type in
| social worker near me or psychiatrist near me or behavioral
| health near me and it will point you in the right
| direction.....
| justizin wrote:
| i found my therapist via a therapy app, which we both left
| long ago. Apps like BetterHelp and TalkSpace can be very hit
| and miss, but they're a place to start, and can serve as good
| matchmaking services.
|
| Be prepared to pay out of pocket, my insurance pays about
| half of what my sessions cost. You get what you pay for. You
| don't want a therapist who is stretched too thin, overworked,
| or financially struggling themselves.
|
| Also, ask friends and family, you may know more people in
| therapy than you realize, and talking about MH with people
| you know is incredibly helpful.
|
| If you have a good PCP, ask them for a referral both to a
| therapist, and consider an IOP - an Intensive Outpatient
| Program. When you're trying to get out of crisis, it can be
| helpful to have more than just a weekly or biweekly session.
| I am in such a program now, it includes group therapy every
| day (I can choose which groups) and more intensive individual
| therapy and case management.
|
| The particular program I am in also does ketamine therapy,
| which can help to rewire your neuropathways so that
| behavioral changes are more permanent. There are some online
| programs - Better U and Mindbloom come up in a quick search -
| which will offer this and other IOP-like services remotely,
| though I'm not sure how they compare to traditional IOP.
|
| Above all, seeking help in any way that you can will make you
| feel better and I am personally proud of you for coming and
| asking a bunch of strangers for help. It shows a readiness to
| take on your challenges.
|
| Good luck on your journey! <3
| kingkawn wrote:
| Therapy can save your life.
|
| The professional is there not to be a regular person to know,
| but someone to who you can emote and feel openly your hardest
| things you hold inside. This expression of those things makes
| them less haunting and distracting inside yourself. This
| technique does not necessarily fix your material problems,
| but it allows you to clear the way within you to take them
| on.
|
| It is not for everyone, and it is worth a try when you are
| feeling hopeless.
|
| There are lots of good online therapy things now. Although
| I'd recommend doing in person if you can because the latency
| of emotional exchange is much higher in the space of the
| world. Even still the online work can be hugely beneficial.
|
| Even if your worldview has left you bereft, your body
| deserves a chance to reformulate your mind for this
| opportunity at existence.
| AndyMcConachie wrote:
| There is no harm in trying out therapists. Don't be afraid to
| fire them and find a new one. They shouldn't take it
| personally. Much of it is about fit and you need to find the
| right person for you.
| trynewideas wrote:
| The worst therapist I ever had referred me to the best
| therapist I ever had. If a therapist gives a shit about
| you, they'll help you find a better fit.
| shackenberg wrote:
| Somebody wrote that OP is in Germany. Here are some notes I
| compiled for (expat) friends and coworkers on:
|
| How to find how to find a therapist in Berlin (Germany): http
| s://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YQYTXBkypxc1DaCRWIjk...
| sveme wrote:
| Given OP's user name, I suppose he is in Germany right now.
| If you want to find a therapist, there's several ways:
|
| 1. Talk to your health insurance; they often have scheduling
| services
|
| 2. Talk to the Kassenarztlicher Bereitschaftsdienst of your
| state, e.g., Bavaria has this on offer: https://www.kvb.de/se
| rvice/patienten/terminservicestelle/ter... If you don't know
| where to head to, call 116117. Easiest way.
|
| 3. Go to your GP - he can guide you through this or can
| forward you to a psychiatrist
|
| 4. Use the online service from the association of
| psychotherapists:
| https://www.psychotherapiesuche.de/pid/ersteschritte
|
| If you have suicidal thoughts, search for a local
| Krisendienst Psychiatrie (https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=kr
| isendienst+psychiatrie&ia...), they can help you immediately.
|
| The most important thing that OP has to learn is that he is
| not alone, there are professionals out there that can help
| you. But you have to make the first step.
| bravura wrote:
| In Germany, if you have public insurance and your GP
| prescribe therapy to you, but all public therapists are
| fully booked, you can take sessions with a private
| therapist and the public insurance is obligated to cover
| you.
|
| Here is a good (long) guide in English:
| https://www.bptk.de/wp-
| content/uploads/2019/09/2019-09_bptk_...
| billypilgrim wrote:
| This is true, that's how I'm getting therapy right now. I
| was scared this was too much paperwork for me at first,
| but my therapist explained that I basically needed to
| only do three things: (1) go to a GP
| (Hausarzt) and explain my situation so they fill up a
| report and confirm that the issue is indeed psychological
| and not physical, (2) go to a therapist that
| works with public insurance so they can write another
| report, your therapist might refer you to one of his/her
| colleagues, and (3) email five therapists
| that work with public insurance and ask them how long
| their waiting list is. They likely will all tell you it's
| longer than 3 months, which is what you need to hear.
|
| You basically send this stuff to your insurance company
| and they deal with the rest.
| ohitsdom wrote:
| I used TherapyDen to find the only therapist I saw (so I'm no
| expert). But lots of therapists there have videos so you get
| a sense of who they are and what they focus on. I did enjoy
| the therapist I ended up seeing for a year.
|
| https://www.therapyden.com/
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| I've never been to a therapist but enjoyment is the
| opposite of what I imagine I need?
| realce wrote:
| > How can I find someone I trust and is actually good? Not
| like the movies where the clock is up and ok next issue.
|
| In reality, you don't really know the kind of people you'd
| trust to talk to in the first place, you don't really have an
| informed opinion. Just jump in feet-first, don't think about.
| You just need someone to talk to ASAP and any decent
| therapist is your first step. Just try it, there's nothing to
| lose whatsoever.
| starkd wrote:
| >> there's nothign to lose whatsoever.
|
| Except hundreds or even thousands of dollars you may or may
| not have to pay the counselors until you find the right
| one. I don't mean to be discouraging anyone from getting
| help, but keep in mind the counselors are not fungible,
| and, at least in my experience, many of them are useless or
| just plain weird. (This is not to stereotype, just stating
| the reality.) I wish there was a way to prefilter them out,
| but it is such a subjective field and the treatment options
| are highly individualistic.
|
| I would suggest any kind of community involvement with
| people you have an affinity for. In person, preferably.
| That brings on a set of new problems, but at least it will
| help get you out of yourself and away from too much navel-
| gazing.
| adamc wrote:
| I've had several. The best one I had was a life coach without
| all the standard creds. The next-best one was in a hospital
| (outpatient) group therapy program that taught CBT.
|
| Keep an open mind, but... it takes looking. I've had
| therapists with all the right degrees who were... meh. Well-
| meaning, but just not that good at it.
|
| Unfortunately, this isn't a zero-effort path. You have to
| look, and fire therapists who aren't doing what you need.
| circlefavshape wrote:
| > How do u find a therapist?
|
| In Ireland, at least, you ask your doctor for a
| recommendation
| [deleted]
| ceedon wrote:
| My SO is a therapist. Something to keep in mind: Many quality
| therapists have stopped taking insurance due to the influx of
| folks seeking care coupled w/ insurance tightening what they
| pay out.
|
| I'm certain there are plenty of good therapists who will take
| their time with you at the discount implied by insurance, but
| you're more likely to get that experience if you're paying
| full rate.
| rrauenza wrote:
| Or sometimes they don't submit on your behalf, so you have
| to do the paperwork to submit to your insurance for
| whatever amount your insurance reimburses, depending on
| your plan.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| OP is not in USA though.
| dboreham wrote:
| Katie Morton has some good videos on how to select a
| therapist and red flags to beware of.
| 9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote:
| If you are in the United States, the following is a good
| resource: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists
|
| Also, read through
| https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/therapy/how-
| find-t...
| soheil wrote:
| Seeing a bad therapist is worse than not seeing a
| therapist. I'd avoid online directories that are known to
| be gamed.
|
| Seek referrals from real people in your area.
| jvanderbot wrote:
| I have found this to be a good, if somewhat unreliable way
| to find therapists. But it definitely is a real resource
| that shouldn't be sandbagged with downvotes.
| lenocinor wrote:
| To add another vote to the pile, I found a good CBT
| couples therapist this way. A year later it's worked out
| very well.
| psych_today wrote:
| Just to add to the other comments: this is how I found my
| therapist after other sources failed. Everyone was too
| busy for a new patient, but I reached out to several from
| here and one of them said he had an opening for 40
| minutes bi-weekly, starting at the end of the month. It
| was better than nothing (I'm serious, it was a huge
| boon!) so I took it.
|
| I immediately told him I wanted more time, and within a
| couple of weeks, he had other openings in his calendar
| and we established a cadence that works much better for
| me.
|
| All this to say that, psychology today is a legit
| resource that works, and just getting your foot in the
| door with any therapist is the most important thing you
| can do to get treatment. It's not easy, but it can be
| done, and for me it has been worth it.
| c0nsumer wrote:
| And _A_ decent therapist is better than an ideal one.
| Just getting started talking to someone is key.
| soheil wrote:
| It depends. If you're in a serious rut I seriously think
| a therapist could make it worse. You need the right fit
| who your brain is not going to dismiss the moment they
| open their mouth.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| How would you find the right therapist in that situation?
| cindarin wrote:
| that's the question, ain't it? Telling people to just
| suffer through terrible therapy probably ain't the answer
| theGnuMe wrote:
| I think the question to ask is: is this therapist helping
| me or not? If not move on to another one.
| runjake wrote:
| This is _so_ true.
| DrNosferatu wrote:
| Indeed, the key concept is "good enough".
| jsonne wrote:
| I found my therapist exactly like this and I have been
| with him for a few years. I was judicious with narrowing
| the search results and then further combed through each
| one meticulously. My wife tried 3 or 4 until she found
| one that clicked. I consider this list to be vastly
| superior to a better help etc. which I have never had
| luck with.
| adamc wrote:
| If you live in a metro area, look for hospitals that run
| CBT/DBT/group therapy sessions. That's another way to get
| started. If you have insurance, that helps.
|
| If you don't have insurance, consider looking at your
| background and find a 12-step program that fits. ACA (adult
| children of alcoholics, but it also considers family
| dysfunction) is one example. It doesn't benefit from having a
| trained therapist, but it's effectively free group therapy.
| slothtrop wrote:
| Find one specializing in CBT, or similar forms of therapy
| shown to be effective (3rd-wave CBT such as MCT). You can
| also just pick up a CBT workbook and do the exercises
| yourself. The only advantage a therapist has over this is
| "talking it out" - you should be capable of recognizing and
| correcting distorted negative thinking with a therapist guide
| / workbook. This is why online therapy has been growing in
| popularity, they just regurgitate the principles.
|
| You can do this free of charge just by visiting the library,
| or finding pdfs online.
| cholantesh wrote:
| I know what CBT is (well, I mean, I've heard term) but what
| is MCT? Also, I would say that a (good) therapist is quite
| like a (good) coach/personal trainer - someone who keeps
| you accountable and committed to a course of
| treatment/training. Many people could probably do these
| things by themselves, but many others struggle to keep it
| up for one reason or other. As an analogue I had a couple
| of very bad PTs and then went to the gym with an
| experienced friend and felt very motivated as he encouraged
| me and helped me through rough spots. Made the most
| progress doing so. This is not to say going it alone is bad
| - you need to be able to sometimes.
| slothtrop wrote:
| > MCT
|
| Metacognitive Therapy. Effectively, when dealing with
| persistent unwanted thoughts, it teaches you to let them
| pass without judgement / evoking response, and to divert
| your attention elsewhere. I find that this complements
| CBT well if one has already done the work of recognizing
| that some thoughts are unrealistic distortions.
| Proponents of MCT seem to bash CBT needlessly; they
| needn't be mutually exclusive, and at any rate, evidence
| suggests that CBT is generally effective (and there's a
| much larger body of it than for MCT).
|
| > someone who keeps you accountable and committed to a
| course of treatment/training. Many people could probably
| do these things by themselves, but many others struggle
| to keep it up for one reason or other.
|
| It depends on preference and self-efficacy,
| notwithstanding that intrinsic motivation is necessary
| whichever way. However, most people don't seem to realize
| that self-administration is an option, and walk away from
| the prospect of therapy entirely if they deem it too
| costly.
|
| The other problem is, as with personal trainers, whether
| you'll have a good one is a roll of the dice. Trainers
| have a perverse incentive to divert people to use
| machines and away from compound movement exercises like
| deadlifts. Similarly, many therapists don't offer much
| insight or homework. And all the while you can leverage
| the most powerful approaches by yourself at zero cost.
|
| Seeing a pro is still a decent heuristic, most people
| will want to avoid the labor of doing research which can
| be daunting, tiresome, and is a skill in itself. Pressing
| the "just tell me what to do, here's money" button is
| arguably more optimal depending on the circumstances.
| soheil wrote:
| Referral are probably best. Seek people in your area in that
| profession and just ask anyone if who'd they recommend.
|
| You need to fix your brain. Spending 50% of your
| income/spendings for at least one year on therapy is the
| minimum you can do.
|
| It is just like a broken leg you need to get it fixed you
| have no choice.
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| Try a few. Go see one, make it clear you're looking around.
| If it isn't working, say so and move on. They're
| professionals, they get it.
|
| You do have to be prepared to be vulnerable to some extent,
| but if they're any good they'll earn trust and develop a
| working relationship with you that is comfortable.
|
| Source: multiple years of therapy. Definitely worth the
| effort and the cost.
| peezd wrote:
| Exactly this, a good therapist will focus the first session
| or two on fit, they want to make sure you both understand
| each other.
|
| I will caveat by not knowing what country you are in and
| the norms there, so this is coming from a US centric
| approach.
| hospadar wrote:
| Absolutely, and I'll add that if you don't like the
| therapist, keep looking. The quality of the relationship
| between you and the therapist has A LOT (the most?) to do
| with what you'll ultimately get out of it.
|
| I remember it being really hard to know what I wanted from
| therapy the first time I did it which made choosing a
| therapist feel pretty overwhelming. Had to drop the first
| therapist I saw after a couple sessions because it wasn't
| for me (and a good therapist will tell you "you might want
| to seek out another therapist").
|
| If you really want to, you can read about the different
| therapy methodologies that therapists commonly use, but as
| a first-timer I found that to be pretty overwhelming and
| just reading the therapists' descriptions of the kind of
| work they do and clients they typically work with
| ultimately more helpful in choosing someone I could work
| well with.
| rrauenza wrote:
| A good therapist (but maybe not a good match for you) will
| also recommend others they know that they believe are a
| better fit.
| zackmorris wrote:
| _With every passing day, I am becoming more bitter, angry and
| disillusioned. I don 't want to live like this anymore, but I
| don't know how to even _start_ thinking of ways to get myself
| out of this hole._
|
| The parent comment about therapy is correct (I regret not
| getting some myself), but I wanted to address this line
| directly.
|
| I was stuck being overwhelmed from 2003 to 2019 after the death
| of a friend, because I had a spiritual awakening but denied it.
| I tried to satisfy my ego and win the internet lottery and gain
| external recognition of success which never came. So I lost the
| better part of 2 decades just going through the motions,
| utterly exhausted.
|
| I had another spiritual awakening climbing out of burnout and
| surviving through the pandemic. This time I watched the world
| wrestle with every existential truth that I had suspected but
| which had been suppressed by the might of economics
| steamrolling everyone until that point.
|
| Now I feel that reality is akin to a dream, or at least a
| Matrix like the movie. There are logical rules we must follow
| on the micro scale in the day to day where we push atoms around
| for income. But on the macro scale, it's more like the universe
| reads our mind and lays a path for us to follow whose main goal
| is to put us through the wringer for our spiritual growth. That
| can be as painful or as effortless as we choose. Western
| culture has no real description for this outside of religion,
| so all but denies its existence. But it's deeply connected with
| karma/sin and how we've integrated our shadow self with our
| outward existence.
|
| Basically the stories I had told myself for most of my life
| were no longer enough to sustain me. My inner monologue had
| became toxic like the line above, a false exaltation to cling
| to when I couldn't face the road ahead of me. Here is an
| alternative way to write the same sentiment:
|
| _I was struggling for a long time but am grateful for the
| lessons that pain has taught me, even though I can 't continue
| to cling to that pain any longer._
|
| I found that most of the code in my brain had been co-opted by
| negative self-talk, to the point where it no longer worked and
| I lost my executive function. It was like I had a stroke and
| the part of my brain that controlled motivation was no longer
| there, or worse, actively talked me down from starting any
| task. I believe now that my subconscious intervened and broke
| the negative feedback cycle I was trapped in where the harder I
| tried, the harder I failed.
|
| Once that happened, I finally understood that my mind is not my
| soul. My physical body and even my thoughts may suffer
| profoundly (or be elated) in the day to day, but I mostly
| observe that process playing out now. I don't subscribe to
| external meaning anymore. I choose what's meaningful. Because
| meaning isn't objective, it's subjective.
|
| Now I meditate and have faith that I can handle life, even when
| it doesn't turn out the way that I want. I've found that
| practicing non-attachment has a funny way of revealing what's
| really important. Mantras help too, like aligning with
| heartfelt causes, for example service or being of service to
| others. Kind of like, strengthening the love inside to give
| love to others who need it. And allowing myself the same
| dignity to receive love. My struggles became training, my
| successes became miracles. And reality seems to be shifting
| towards this more integrated physical/spiritual whole with
| divine timing.
|
| Hope something in this helps you on your journey.
| timwaagh wrote:
| I'm sorry but how is this helpful? Even if you're actively
| employed that's a tough cost-benefit decision.
| soheil wrote:
| Literally there is no greater cost than not being able to
| live/earn a living/achieve any of your goals.
|
| So of course the cost is worth it.
| [deleted]
| mancerayder wrote:
| > You need to see a therapist
|
| You should reword that. Otherwise how did humanity last this
| long? Psychotherapy is less than two centuries old. You should
| instead say something like, "One option is to see a therapist."
|
| There are friends, elders, books, and a number of other ways to
| climb out of a mental rut. Traipsing "Psychology Today" for a
| therapist who will charge the insurance $150 for 40 minutes of
| a session, through Zoom no less, with your $40 co-pay after
| deductibles is such a commercial approach to what is
| fundamentally a human problem.
|
| You know a very modern problem? You can't sit easily and talk
| with friends over a drink about your issues and have someone
| give you constructive advice. Everyone is remote, busy, prefers
| chatting online, and as a result a lot of loneliness manifests
| as "Oh my god, what am I doing with my life."
| ineedausername wrote:
| Spo on, in this isolated atomized western reality, the end
| result is posts like that and therapy suggestions as replies.
| javajosh wrote:
| Yes, too often "You need to see a therapist" is just a
| euphemism for "I don't want to listen to your problems."
|
| This is an important data point and a general trend toward
| the cheapening of human relationships. Friendship means
| something very specific, and for a lot of people now it means
| only the superficial. Anything deeper than that is actively
| discouraged. I think of those surveys about friendship took
| this kind of friendship into account. The number of people
| without any friends at all would be outrageously high.
| fragmede wrote:
| Sometimes that might be true, but let's say you have the
| option to talk to two people about a problem. Person 1 is
| your friend that you've known all your life. They haven't
| gone to school for this and have plenty of problems of
| their own, half of which you know about, the other half,
| you're a part of, so they're biased and on their side, and
| not your side. Person 2 is a licensed therapist, has a
| literal master degree in the subject of dealing with people
| and their shit, has passed an ethics exam, and supervised
| experience program, and is on your side and won't judge you
| for your decisions. Who do you think would be able to help
| more?
| geoah wrote:
| Humanity "survived" this long, many people did't make that
| cut, and many of those who did lived in misery, denial, or in
| the comfort of alcholor and/or drugs. IMO the cost of a
| couple of sessions to see if it works for you is better than
| not giving it a shot.
|
| OP: Life can be good and does indeed gets better, if you are
| not in a good place, please do talk to someone, try to make a
| change, no matter how small, and stay strong.
| fragmede wrote:
| Also organized religion. After preparing sermons to give on
| Sunday, the church's pastor served as a therapist and did
| couples counseling for their local community. It's only
| recently that outside avenues have come to be formalized an
| relied upon in this way.
| gernb wrote:
| I recently looked into seeing a therapist for reasons similar
| to the OP's.
|
| I tried lyra. All the wording and questions ask screamed to
| me "these are not my type of people". I'm not going to go
| into specifics but imagine you walked into a help conference
| and every table had energy stones, power of pyramids,
| astrology books, etc... If you're anything like me you'd walk
| out.
|
| Once I made it past all that it recommended some therapists
| all of whom were white. The metro area I live in, 8 million
| people, is only 60% white in total and many areas are
| majority not white. I tried changing my location to an area
| known for being majority not white but it just gave me the
| same people.
|
| It just got me wondering how much of therapy is a white
| culture thing because it seems statistically unlikely that of
| the 11 therapists it recommended, all 11 would be white if
| the demographics of the area say that only 60% of the
| population is white.
|
| It was no different on BetterHelp.
| oblio wrote:
| > It just got me wondering how much of therapy is a white
| culture thing
|
| I assume non-white majority countries also have
| psychologists/therapists, though.
| o_nate wrote:
| The WHO has data on mental health workers relative to
| population in various countries around the world. The
| median number of mental health workers per 100,000
| population across 156 countries, is 8. In the US its
| about 100. China is at the median. India is one of the
| lowest, at around 1 mental health worker per 100,000
| population.
| gernb wrote:
| It sounds like therapy is not common in many cultures
|
| https://www.huffpost.com/entry/what-therapy-is-like-
| around-t...
| oblio wrote:
| It's not common anywhere. If anything, it's quite new and
| generally a rich man's thing.
|
| Poor people generally avoid discussing issues in public
| and then discuss them with family.
|
| But far more frequently violence and alcohol are the
| default "therapy".
| roughly wrote:
| It's worth considering a therapist as similar to a medical
| intervention - yes, good eating, clean living, and regular
| exercise can keep you healthy, but after a very long time of
| not doing so, it's possible to find oneself too far down the
| road for that kind of change to sufficient on its own.
| Similarly, the help of friends, family, etc. can do wonders
| for one's mental health, but after a very long time of
| neglect, that can be beyond one's reach.
|
| I say this as someone who rather successfully turned things
| around with a therapist - I simply did not have it in me to
| have those conversations with others and I didn't feel I had
| the relationships or support to do so (in retrospect I
| probably did, but that's the thing about mental health).
|
| I don't think your diagnosis is wrong, particularly - there's
| a lot in the modern world that promotes alienation, feelings
| of low self esteem, and depression, but I think a lot of
| people find themselves at the bottom of the well before
| realizing quite what's happening and without the support
| structures to get out on their own.
|
| (Edit just to note that, like physical health, mental health
| is not just the consequences of one's own actions - both
| genetic predispositions and unexpected life events can
| necessitate professional intervention by no fault of one's
| own. It's not what we're talking about, but just so nobody
| takes my post to be a psalm from the church of the self-
| sufficient.)
| mancerayder wrote:
| I don't disagree with anything you've said, and I don't
| think therapy is useless. Especially when one is past a
| point where there are few other options.
|
| It's just a sad state of affairs that there are _so_ few
| other options for people. I continue to pin the blame on
| the remote-first nature of society, which seems to make in
| person interaction secondary. It perpetuates loneliness
| which perpetuates mental health issues.
| crtified wrote:
| Jumping in here.
|
| I suspect that the number of people who could benefit
| from quality therapy, _greatly_ outnumbers the amount of
| quality therapists that exist in the world.
|
| To the point where, I surmise, a vast majority of the
| world's population simply would not have meaningful
| access to it, due to location, finances, availability,
| introversion, etc.
|
| So for me, it's not that "get therapy" is bad advice.
| Good thing is good. Therapy has proven techniques and
| results. But that doesn't help the majority of the
| world's population, who do not have access to the luxury
| of visits to high end trained professionals that only
| exist in suitably affluent settlements of certain
| countries.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Unfortunately finding a therapist in Germany is near impossible
| even in a big city, I've been on the waiting list for almost a
| year now with no sign of end and I live in Hamburg which is one
| of the richest cities in Germany
| n0dar wrote:
| Also living in Hamburg. Have you tried 116117.app to at least
| get a first appointment? I got lists and lists full of phone
| numbers, always got rejected or waitlisted, but found a
| therapist quite quickly near me using this first talk. Nobody
| told me about this, had to search a lot. I hope this helps.
| bowsamic wrote:
| Getting the first appointment was easy, it's the follow up
| treatment that has the extremely long waiting list
|
| Many will offer a first appointment for preliminary
| diagnosis and to check if they can help you, but then you
| are put onto the waiting list
| dlandis wrote:
| Could you try one of the remote services like Better Help? (I
| have no idea if they have good therapists, I just see their
| name a lot lately).
| soheil wrote:
| I do not recommend remote therapy one bit.
| artursapek wrote:
| Why?
| caddemon wrote:
| I don't think the basic talk therapy apps are very
| helpful, mostly because they have a lot of low quality
| therapists and matching is terrible. But I disagree with
| remote being inherently bad (especially compared to a
| year+ wait). I'd encourage OP to see if they can access
| any university trials for remote CBT apps. I'm aware of
| studies that showed promising results in the recent past
| but I don't know what became of any of them since COVID
| (which really should've catalyzed this sort of thing).
| soheil wrote:
| Maybe for minor things it's good. But for depression and
| serious mental issues absolutely not.
|
| For example you can't do analysis without being
| physically present with your doctor [1].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoanalysis
| wizeman wrote:
| Psychoanalysis is pretty much discredited as a scientific
| discipline, nowadays.
|
| There's also a lot of evidence of remote therapy being
| just as effective as in-person therapy.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| Citation needed. Psychoanalysis is widely practiced and
| it's efficacy has been repeatedly scientifically
| demonstrated.
| wizeman wrote:
| > Citation needed.
|
| Sure, I will cite the Wikipedia page on Psychoanalysis,
| which itself has many citations which you can follow:
|
| 1. "Psychoanalysis is a controversial discipline, and its
| effectiveness as a treatment has been contested"
|
| 2. "Linguist Noam Chomsky has criticized psychoanalysis
| for lacking a scientific basis."
|
| 3. "Evolutionary biologist Stephen Jay Gould considered
| psychoanalysis influenced by pseudoscientific theories
| such as recapitulation theory."
|
| 4. "Psychologists Hans Eysenck, John F. Kihlstrom and
| others have also criticized the field as pseudoscience."
|
| 5. "Philosopher Frank Cioffi cites false claims of a
| sound scientific verification of the theory and its
| elements as the strongest basis for classifying the work
| of Freud and his school as pseudoscience."
|
| 6. "Karl Popper argued that psychoanalysis is a
| pseudoscience because its claims are not testable and
| cannot be refuted; that is, they are not falsifiable:
|
| ....those "clinical observations" which analysts naively
| believe confirm their theory cannot do this any more than
| the daily confirmations which astrologers find in their
| practice. And as for Freud's epic of the Ego, the Super-
| ego, and the Id, no substantially stronger claim to
| scientific status can be made for it than for Homer's
| collected stories from the Olympus."
|
| 7. "Imre Lakatos wrote that "Freudians have been
| nonplussed by Popper's basic challenge concerning
| scientific honesty. Indeed, they have refused to specify
| experimental conditions under which they would give up
| their basic assumptions.""
|
| 8. "Scruton nevertheless concluded that psychoanalysis is
| not genuinely scientific, on the grounds that it involves
| an unacceptable dependence on metaphor."
|
| 9. "The philosopher and physicist Mario Bunge argued that
| psychoanalysis is a pseudoscience because it violates the
| ontology and methodology inherent to science. According
| to Bunge, most psychoanalytic theories are either
| untestable or unsupported by evidence."
|
| 10. "Cognitive scientists, in particular, have also
| weighed in. Martin Seligman, a prominent academic in
| positive psychology, wrote that:
|
| Thirty years ago, the cognitive revolution in psychology
| overthrew both Freud and the behaviorists, at least in
| academia.... The imperialistic Freudian view claims that
| emotion always drives thought, while the imperialistic
| cognitive view claims that thought always drives emotion.
| The evidence, however, is that each drives the other at
| times."
|
| 11. "Historian Henri Ellenberger, who researched the
| history of Freud, Jung, Adler, and Janet, while writing
| his book The Discovery of the Unconscious: The History
| and Evolution of Dynamic Psychiatry, argued that
| psychoanalysis was not scientific on the grounds of both
| its methodology and social structure:
|
| Psychoanalysis, is it a science? It does not meet the
| criteria (unified science, defined domain and
| methodology). It corresponds to the traits of a
| philosophical sect (closed organisation, highly personal
| initiation, a doctrine which is changeable but defined by
| its official adoption, cult and legend of the founder)."
|
| 12. "Richard Feynman wrote off psychoanalysts as mere
| "witch doctors""
|
| 13. "Likewise, psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey, in
| Witchdoctors and Psychiatrists (1986), agreed that
| psychoanalytic theories have no more scientific basis
| than the theories of traditional native healers,
| "witchdoctors" or modern "cult" alternatives such as
| EST."
|
| 14. "Psychologist Alice Miller charged psychoanalysis
| with being similar to the poisonous pedagogies"
|
| 15. "Psychologist Joel Kupfersmid investigated the
| validity of the Oedipus complex, examining its nature and
| origins. He concluded that there is little evidence to
| support the existence of the Oedipus complex."
|
| > Psychoanalysis is widely practiced
|
| Astrology is widely practiced as well. Doesn't mean it's
| scientific.
|
| > and it's efficacy has been repeatedly scientifically
| demonstrated.
|
| That is a very controversial statement within modern
| psychology.
|
| Although I have no doubt that most psychoanalysts believe
| that, just as homeopaths and other pseudoscientific
| practitioners also believe that their disciplines are
| scientific.
| bowsamic wrote:
| I have to be honest, none of those are particularly
| convincing, and spamming a bunch of disconnected quotes
| from a Wikipedia page isn't a great argument
| wizeman wrote:
| > I have to be honest, none of those are particularly
| convincing, and spamming a bunch of disconnected quotes
| from a Wikipedia page isn't a great argument
|
| It was not an argument. It was an answer to the parent
| poster which requested a citation. Which is why I gave
| him citations.
|
| And if such a large list of citations from many experts
| in the fields of psychology, psychiatry, philosophy,
| history, cognitive science, etc, including many
| scientists and hell, even (at least) one Nobel prize
| winner, doesn't convince you... then I'm sorry to tell
| you this, but I don't think there could be anything that
| would convince you.
|
| And I'm not sure why you think that you are more
| qualified than all of them to judge this.
| bowsamic wrote:
| I would be much more convinced by a modern meta analysis
|
| The problem is that I'm a physicist so I see a wiki page
| with a bunch of quotes from people of all disciplines
| including a physicist who was famously a huge sceptic of
| psychiatry and I think of all the physics pages that have
| all these "opinions" that are wrong
|
| Very few of those quotes mention evidence of outcomes of
| psychoanalysis but only mention very specific parts of it
| being questionable. I think you're jumping the gun a bit.
| Don't worry, that's very common among people who are
| newer to science
| wizeman wrote:
| > I would be much more convinced by a modern meta
| analysis
|
| There are many modern meta analysis assessing the
| (in)efficacy of psychoanalysis and comparing it to other
| approaches, such as cognitive behavioral therapy (which
| is the gold standard nowadays) and other approaches,
| which back my arguments.
|
| I am not really interested in going more deeply about
| this, but I encourage you to research it, if you are
| interested. There is a lot of research about this.
|
| And by the way, I am sure that you can also find meta
| analysis which will tell you that psychoanalysis works.
| This does not mean that it is necessarily true (or at
| least, not for the reasons that people think it is true),
| for various reasons, some of which I'm sure you can
| deduce.
|
| The problems with psychoanalysis are not just about its
| (substandard) efficacy. There are many other troubling
| issues with this practice.
|
| This is why it is important to follow a field of study
| and what current scientists, field practicioners/experts
| and academics know (from various disciplines and fields
| of study, in order to get a consensus as best as
| possible), and not just read some isolated meta analysis
| and extrapolate conclusions from it.
|
| > I think you're jumping the gun a bit.
|
| I think what I'm talking about is pretty well established
| at this point, it's not news for someone who works in
| this field.
|
| I suggest you do more research before arguing about a
| field you don't seem knowledgeable about.
| bowsamic wrote:
| You are no more knowledgeable than me. You just quoted
| the wiki page lol
| wizeman wrote:
| I quoted the wiki page because the parent poster
| requested citations.
|
| It has no relevance with regards to my knowledge.
| Gerard0 wrote:
| >There are many other troubling issues with this
| practice.
|
| Which? Serious question!
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| What meta analysis shows the inefficacy of
| psychoanalysis? Despite being apparently on the side of
| science, you didn't bother to cite any actual science.
| Ironic
| wizeman wrote:
| > What meta analysis shows the inefficacy of
| psychoanalysis? Despite being apparently on the side of
| science, you didn't bother to cite any actual science.
| Ironic
|
| Look, if you are so interested in this, why don't you do
| the research yourself?
|
| I literally just googled "meta-analysis psychoanalysis"
| and _the very first link_ that came up [1] was,
| surprisingly, a meta-analysis about psychoanalysis which
| concluded the abstract with the following phrase:
|
| "In contrast to previous reviews, we found the evidence
| for the effectiveness of LTPP [long-term psychoanalytic
| psychotherapy] to be limited and at best conflicting."
|
| I'm not interested in wasting more of my time on this
| topic, so don't expect any more replies.
|
| [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22227111/
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| Here's a study from a month or two ago (10 years after
| your meta analysis) with n=216 and long term follow up
| showing (high, increasing) efficacy. You seem confused
| about the conclusions there, that doesn't discredit
| psychoanalysis, it encourages further study. And here is
| further study. You should try to be more rigorous in your
| thinking.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9710086/
| svnt wrote:
| The study you linked is for specific narrow treatment
| techniques in intensive inpatient psychotherapy, as
| compared with more typical psychotherapy treatment in the
| community for people on the waitlist.
|
| There are a handful of problems I can think of for using
| a waitlist in the community receiving traditional
| psychotherapy as a control for a group receiving
| intensive inpatient treatment.
|
| But the article you linked does not support your point in
| the context of this discussion.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| It proves psychoanalysis is not discredited.
| svnt wrote:
| It doesn't. It only proves there are still people trying
| to continue their careers in a field they have deeply
| invested in, in training, education, clientele, and
| professional network.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| Yes it does because it demonstrates its effectiveness.
| How can an effective discipline be scientifically
| discredited?
| svnt wrote:
| It does not demonstrate the effectiveness of psychiatric
| treatment by any reasonable standard.
|
| The control group is corrupted, the control-treatment
| pairs for comparison were selected by the researchers,
| and the provided "psychiatric treatment" includes
|
| > In addition to weekly individual sessions the inpatient
| program at both groups contained two 75 min group
| sessions each week. In addition, VITA had shorter group
| meetings each morning (15 minutes). Patients in both
| treatments participated in two physical exercise sessions
| per week, weekly psycho-educational lectures and art-
| therapy groups, and both groups finish each week with end
| of the week status groups. On average, patients in both
| treatments received seven sessions of therapeutic
| activity each week.
|
| "Both treatments" here is not control and treatment but
| both intensive treatments.
|
| You can get large effects in almost everything by
| completely changing a person's experiential environment
| from their prior environment, which is what they did
| here. In addition to everything listed, their sleeping
| conditions, diet, daily routine, and social environment
| were probably dramatically changed, although the
| researchers didn't record that so we can't know.
|
| It's impossible to tell if the actual psychiatric
| interventions were effective. This fact, though, is
| particularly damning as to the efficacy of the actual
| treatments provided:
|
| >The analysis also showed minimal differences between the
| two intensive inpatient treatments, suggesting that the
| differences in effect may not be due to the theoretical
| rationale within the inpatient treatment but rather the
| treatment context.
|
| There were no significant differences between two very
| different treatment modalities. This essentially admits
| that "something else" and not the psychiatric treatments
| were responsible for the uptick. My guess is regular
| schedule, connecting with people (community formation)
| and mattering to someone, none of which do you get from
| psychiatric treatments.
| wizeman wrote:
| See, this is exactly why I didn't want to cite any
| particular study or analysis.
|
| I knew this was going to turn into this pointless debate.
|
| I even mentioned it in my parent comment that you can
| always find some study which says the opposite of what
| I'm saying. _That does not refute what I said_ and it is
| not how science works.
|
| You have to analyze a bunch of evidence, from many
| studies and meta-studies together as a whole, you can't
| just pick and choose the studies that are more convenient
| to you.
|
| Not to mention that you asked me to cite a meta-analysis
| (which I did) and then you counter-act with a single
| study about a single trial.
|
| So here's the thing: I am not interested in you citing me
| any study or meta-analysis. As I said before, I'm not
| interested in continuing this discussion.
|
| I was just arguing what I know about this topic and what
| I've learned from experts (in psychology and methodology,
| mostly) and my own research.
|
| You can feel free to ignore me or to continue arguing,
| but I'm not going to answer anymore.
|
| I don't have a horse in this race and I don't want to
| waste any more of my time.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| You claimed psychoanalysis is discredited. You are wrong,
| and I proved you wrong. Is the debate about its
| scientific status ongoing? Yes. But you were foolish with
| your words, and should retract them.
| soheil wrote:
| Chomsky? He's a linguist, what does that have to do with
| Psychoanalysis?
|
| Feynman? He's a physicist, what does that have to do with
| Psychoanalysis?
|
| ...
|
| This list very much sounds like something the marketing
| team of an online therapy startup would put together and
| post to Wikipedia and tell their colleagues to contribute
| to.
| wizeman wrote:
| > Chomsky? He's a linguist, what does that have to do
| with Psychoanalysis?
|
| He's also a philosopher, historian and cognitive
| scientist. He has received a Membership of the National
| Academy of Sciences (which is an award given to
| scientists), a Kyoto prize in Basic Sciences, a medal
| from a German academy of science, an American Psychology
| Association Award for Distinguished Scientific
| Contributions to Psychology, etc.
|
| These are relevant areas and merits with regards to
| judging whether a discipline is scientific or pseudo-
| scientific.
|
| > Feynman? He's a physicist, what does that have to do
| with Psychoanalysis?
|
| He is one of the most famous scientists in the world, had
| an extremely significant scientific career, won a Nobel
| prize in a scientific area and a National Medal of
| Science.
|
| If you don't know why such a person would be extremely
| qualified to distinguish a scientific discipline from a
| pseudo-scientific one, I'm deeply sorry for you.
|
| Also, don't ignore all the other experts in the fields of
| psychology, psychiatry, cognitive science, philosophy,
| history, etc. who arrived at the same conclusion.
|
| Although, I am interested in knowing why you think that
| you are more qualified than these people to judge whether
| a discipline is scientific or not.
| soheil wrote:
| > Although, I am interested in knowing why you think that
| you are more qualified than these people to judge whether
| a discipline is scientific or not.
|
| Because this doesn't pass the smell test.
|
| You can always provide positive evidence for existence of
| something if you find a hole in provided evidence then
| you should then be extra careful believing the
| hypothesis. Or in Black Swan lingo skeptical empiricism.
| bowsamic wrote:
| As a postdoc in physics, Feynman barely holds any
| authority when it comes to physics subjects, let alone on
| psychoanalysis. You seem like the kind of person who is
| very susceptible to science misinformation. Too deferent
| to experts in a way that you don't understand. It seems
| like you have switched your critical thinking off and are
| incredulous that others have not followed your example.
| Your lack of ability to even slightly justify your
| argument, instead going off on strange tangents about
| Nobel prizes is proof of this
|
| If you actually had some relevant information you would
| post it immediately, because that is in your interest in
| this discussion
|
| Good luck...
| balfirevic wrote:
| > For example you can't do analysis without being
| physically present with your doctor
|
| Why not?
| bowsamic wrote:
| I didn't want to but I might have to
| gen220 wrote:
| I agree this is an important place to start, but it might not
| be feasible given the situation they're starting from now.
|
| It might make sense to take "under-" employment with a company
| that offers good health benefits, which would at least provide
| income and insurance to buffer the cost of therapy. It might be
| helpful to think of it as a "launchpad" or "staging" job. It
| can also be an opportunity to exercise the muscle of
| befriending new people (coworkers, regular customers).
|
| In the US, Starbucks and Trader Joe's are popular launchpad
| choices of employer, at least in my metro area. There might be
| similar ones in your current home country, if it makes more
| logistical sense to stay local.
| throwawayhealth wrote:
| A therapist is helpful but I would also suggest seeing a
| psychiatrist.
|
| Clinical depression and mood issues need to be treated with
| medication. I would recommend finding a psychiatrist and get a
| referral for therapist from them if you are able to. You would
| be able to work together with both medication and theraphy to
| get better. It will take bit of a time to get better but don't
| be discouraged, OP. Progress will be slow and many goals you
| might think of may seem unachievable so it's very important you
| plan small steps and follow through them.
|
| If theraphy is cost prohibited or have long waiting line in
| your country, from what I know of OP's situation - I recommend
| getting online sessions from therapist in other English
| speaking countries who might be cheaper locally.
| xenotize wrote:
| In my experience, learning proper coping mechanisms, finding
| new hobbies, getting better sleep, better diet, getting
| enough exercise, making sure your vitamin levels are in line,
| were all much more effective than medication. Medication
| actually made feel worse and more trapped, and I've taken
| almost every single antidepressant that can be prescribed.
|
| What worked for me will not work for everyone. It's important
| to try everything that you can and see what works best for
| you. For me, medication was not the answer.
| throwawayhealth wrote:
| It's certainly a journey. I recommend checking with both
| for this reason. If one isn't working out, you would be
| able to tell which you respond to better. Medication also
| often take time to work and may need to go through months
| of experimentation if common prescription do not help. In
| the meantime, theraphy can act as a strong force in
| improving your life and vice versa.
| soheil wrote:
| 100% second that.
|
| Psychiatrists are real doctors with scientific,
| comprehensive, rigid education in STEM.
|
| Last thing you want is a pseudo PhD from Berkeley who majored
| in psychology and studied "human rights" as her thesis.
| soheil wrote:
| Please refrain from comments that could put people in danger.
| It is at best careless to say to someone with possible
| depression therapy may not be the answer.
| throwawayhealth wrote:
| I have not suggested that. I strongly suggest trying
| theraphy above. The point of my comment is to also strongly
| consider theraphy with a medical practioner who will be
| able to help you using medication or diagnose any issues
| that a therapist cannot.
|
| A therapist isn't qualified to make any diagnosis or
| prescribe tests and medication.
| soheil wrote:
| So sorry I replied to the wrong thread. I left another
| comment on your here:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34053767
| engineeringwoke wrote:
| > Clinical depression and mood issues need to be treated with
| medication.
|
| How to know someone is American before they even mention
| "other English speaking countries"
| caddemon wrote:
| Need is not the right word because it depends on the
| person. Some can get better with the right therapy alone.
| Others don't even respond to therapy + meds but might
| improve with more invasive neurological interventions.
|
| But there are certainly people in our present world who do
| need meds to get out of the depression hole. There are
| people that do not respond to therapy alone but do respond
| to meds with therapy.
|
| I don't think there's anything wrong with your comment,
| indeed the statement you're quoting is extreme. But I think
| HN has the tendency to go too far to the other extreme. At
| the end of the day, clinical depression is very
| heterogeneous. You need to do what works best for you.
|
| Btw in case it isn't clear how meds are supposed to work in
| practice - medication for depression is not something you
| just pop and forget about. Any reputable psychiatrist will
| include therapy as part of the initial treatment plan, they
| don't just write a prescription and send you away.
|
| Yes bad clinicians exist, but I think the pill popping
| trope for psych is way less common than people assume.
| Perhaps part of the source of this stigma is the role of
| the general practitioner. It is not uncommon to see random
| non-psychiatrist MDs prescribing SSRIs or stimulants, and
| in those cases it's a lot less likely the corresponding
| behavioral therapy is happening.
|
| Anyway, medication is an absolute life saver for those
| people who need help in making the behavioral changes to
| begin with. There is a large body of studies at this point
| showing that simultaneous meds and therapy can improve
| depression symptoms more than the sum of their parts. Gold
| standard practice is to try tapering off of meds after the
| course of therapy, and more often than not the symptom
| improvements persist.
|
| OP should get a professional opinion specific to his
| situation. He shouldn't go with the intention of seeking
| meds, but they should be something he inquires about. Some
| of the sibling comments here are acting like needing meds
| is a lack of will power, which is just as unhelpful as
| indiscriminately pushing meds.
| dang wrote:
| Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar.
| There could be an interesting point to make about how
| different countries and cultures approach mental illness,
| but snark and internet tropes are exactly the wrong way to
| do it.
|
| The HN guidelines include: " _Don 't be snarky._" " _Eschew
| flamebait._ " " _Omit internet tropes._ "
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| engineeringwoke wrote:
| Sorry. I just find it offensive when someone says that
| one "needs" medication in order to deal with depression.
| It's a lie and a fad in English-speaking countries
|
| Is it not also a problem that someone is providing
| medical advice to someone sight unseen on a new account
| without any kind of disclaimer?
| dang wrote:
| I can understand why you find that offensive. But there
| are a lot of offensive things, or things that someone
| finds offensive, floating around--for this reason, we're
| all responsible for metabolizing those reactions in
| ourselves rather than venting them into the commons. It's
| the only way to prevent discussion quality from further
| declining.
|
| Of course, you would have been welcome to post a
| thoughtful, neutral reply questioning whether medication
| is needed for that, and explaining why. In such a
| comment, it might be natural to mention that where you
| live, attitudes toward this are very different, etc.
| Although these topics are divisive and intense, there's
| no intrinsic reason why they need to become flamewars.
|
| Re your second question, I don't think it's a problem for
| people to share their experiences and viewpoints,
| especially on issues that touch nearly everyone, and I
| don't think doing that really counts as "medical advice".
| There's no implicit claim to authority in an internet
| forum comment; on the contrary, readers all know to add
| an implicit "This is just an internet comment"
| disclaimer.
|
| HN is basically an internet watercooler, a place for
| conversation, finding common ground, and so on. We trust
| readers to be smart enough to make up their own minds.
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Ok now look up anti depressant intake levels in europe.
| DrThunder wrote:
| pknomad wrote:
| You're absolutely right that a therapy isn't THE solution to
| depression but I feel like it's a good starting point. A good
| therapist should be able to recognize if OP should be seeing
| a psychiatrist who then can prescribe the appropriate
| medication for managing his/her condition.
| caddemon wrote:
| A halfway decent psychiatrist will also handle therapist
| referral. I don't see any issue with seeing a psychiatrist
| first, it's not like they just automatically hand out a
| prescription. It's actually way more common to see GPs do
| that for depression in the US.
|
| That said, OP should probably look into both himself, see
| what the wait time and cost differences are between the two
| routes in his area.
| boucher wrote:
| One possibly significant difference is that psychiatrists
| tend to charge _a lot_ more.
| stuart78 wrote:
| A six month series of weekly sessions with a Cognitive
| Behavioral Therapist had a transformative impact in my life. He
| helped me see some of the actions I was doing more clearly and
| helped me develop the skills to change. In our sessions we
| focused on one small part of my life, but I've felt the impact
| quite broadly and still think of him and those conversations
| regularly, especially when I am struggling. I have at times
| seen other therapists with less helpful results, so it's with
| finding the one that fits for you.
|
| I don't believe any life is past its time. We all follow our
| own twisting paths, and it is an easier path when we don't have
| to face it all alone.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| disintegore wrote:
| I don't think you're wrong, but it's worth mentioning that you
| can't outlook-change your way out of having executive
| dysfunction. Recognizing the problem is the first step, but
| getting help comes soon after.
| waltherg wrote:
| Yes, I read this and was thinking therapy from the start. I was
| never against therapy but finally pulled through and my mood
| and outlook have improved dramatically over the past six months
| thanks to my weekly therapy sessions.
|
| OP's username seems somewhat German so I would cordially invite
| OP to make use of our pretty decent Krankenkasse system that
| makes it a relative breeze to get therapy sessions. Shop around
| if you don't vibe with your therapist.
| cromwellian wrote:
| 100% to the above and I would look specifically for Cognitive
| Behavioral Therapy which specializes in treating distorted
| thinking. It rescued me from my early thirties and I haven't
| been depressed since. Our brains are wired to generate stories
| and narratives around everything, we can't help it, and
| sometimes those narratives are distorted but cause damage and
| like a scab, we keep reinforcing and picking at them. Learning
| to recognize when you're doing this and to stop is a skill like
| riding a bike, and a good therapist can help. Group therapy
| also helps because you can see other people going into these
| catastrophic narratives that look absurd to you and give you an
| idea of some of the same distortions you might be imagining.
|
| Then other thing is, no matter how smart you are, you can't
| debug yourself, you need other people. If you have a distorted
| negative feeling of yourself, then when you try to fix
| yourself, you'll be more inclined to feel something isn't
| working or you are doomed the first time you hit a roadblock or
| relapse.
|
| And ultimately sometimes medication can help you get through
| the initial hurdle of such negativity, another reason you need
| to see a professional to evaluate this.
|
| Go check out YouTube and Wikipedia for some cognitive
| behavioral therapy sources to see if it might fit.
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| My #1 recommendation of something you can do today: exercise.
|
| - builds a routine
|
| - more effective than antidepressant drugs
|
| - helps you sleep
|
| - provides time for reflection
|
| - forces you out into the world
|
| - in the long run makes you better looking
|
| - builds a work ethic
|
| - builds self esteem
|
| - helps you learn to concentrate
|
| - gives you more energy to do things
|
| - it develops motivation
|
| - it reduces stress
|
| If you have time for it, do it twice a day.
|
| Especially you who seem to be in decent health (you're not
| american so I assume you're not morbidly obese or other
| issues).
|
| Do 20 minutes of light exercise a day. Walk. If you have a
| bike, go bike. Too cold out? Find some stairs and just walk
| up and down them for 20 minutes.
|
| Just do light exercise for a month, then think about goals.
|
| Otherwise, 42 isn't too late to reproduce for a male. You
| appear debt free? Guess what, you're richer than most
| american.
| vrc wrote:
| Terry Crews had a clip where he talks about the exercise
| habit, and how he (not sure if he did this or suggested
| this) would go to the gym for the time he allotted for
| exercise each day, even when he didn't want to. And if he
| didn't want to work out, he'd read a book in the locker
| room or walk at 1mph. A friend of mine did this, and
| eventually built an exercise habit out of it because, "why
| not, I'm already here?". Obviously if funds or facilities
| aren't there you could just change into exercise gear and
| go to a park to sit. Eventually you'll move.
|
| So OP, give yourself protected time and protect it.
| DogLover_ wrote:
| While your intentions may be good, it's worth noting that
| these things can have negative effects on some people. For
| example, they can disrupt sleep patterns, lead to feelings
| of failure and low self-esteem, and drain energy levels.
| ponow wrote:
| > you're not american so I assume you're not morbidly obese
| or other issues
|
| Had to slip in the insult, didn't ya?
| Trasmatta wrote:
| Exercise, sleep, diet, and hydration are definitely
| important first steps. However, I felt a unique sense of
| pain when I was doing all of those things and still feeling
| empty, miserable, and angry.
|
| I guess what I'm getting at is: don't beat yourself up if
| you go through the checklist and still feel bad. That's a
| sign that there are other external or internal factors that
| exercise won't address, and that therapy could help with.
| GFischer wrote:
| Second the advice for Cognitive Behavorial Therapy, looks
| like the best fit in this case.
| woolcap wrote:
| Another vote for CBT. CBT has made a big difference for me,
| helping me to find my way out of some very negative
| patterns of thinking, and allowing me to feel real joy,
| despite a number of ongoing difficult circumstances in my
| life. I'd recommend it to just about anyone, at any age.
|
| I didn't go through CBT with a therapist. I just read the
| first few chapters of The Feeling Good Handbook, then tried
| to establish a habit of confronting my negative feelings,
| and the thoughts that were feeding them by identifying the
| distortions in those thoughts.
|
| YMMV, but it may be worth a try.
| cobbman wrote:
| > Then other thing is, no matter how smart you are, you can't
| debug yourself, you need other people.
|
| This is very true, and not always realized.
|
| Another way I heard it said which is easy to remember: "You
| can't read the label from inside the bottle."
| dejj wrote:
| "Dr. Rosen: You can't reason your way out of this!
|
| John Forbes Nash: Why not? Why can't I?
|
| Dr. Rosen: Because your mind is where your problem is in
| the first place!"
|
| - 'A Beautiful Mind'.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| An alternative to CBT that you might want to consider is
| Internal Family Systems. I find it to be a more holistic and
| compassionate form of therapy that respects your entire
| internal system.
|
| Sometimes we have internal parts that need love and care more
| than they need lecturing on cognitive distortions.
|
| CBT is effective for many people which is great, but there
| are other options.
| boucher wrote:
| CBT didn't really work for me, but I have found IFS to be a
| bit more useful, as well as another framework called ACT
| (Acceptance and Commitment Therapy).
|
| Personally, I found it helpful to read some of the books on
| these and related concepts, as a supplement to therapy.
| Also, it can be a frustratingly slow journey.
| fsloth wrote:
| CBT helped debug my thinking in very analogous circumstances
| to OP (30+, hit hard by events in life plus somewhat
| traumatic past), warm recommendation as well.
| JamesBarney wrote:
| It really sounds like your main problem is your depressed. So
| I'd get a therapist, get on medication, and try some things one
| the urls below.
|
| And to expand on that, if you're not vibing or getting results
| from one therapist see another one. Don't give up after seeing
| just one. I know plenty of people that didn't see much
| improvement after one therapist but did well with others.
|
| Look into medications, they are a lot easier to stick to than
| seeing a therapist especially if you're depressed. Even if the
| first drug doesn't work try another one. The non-response rates
| to a single medication are much smaller than if you didn't
| respond to one you try another one.
|
| In the process get started with this book.
| https://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Behavioral-Workbook-Depress...
|
| This website has a lot of useful information too. (Written by a
| psychiatrist) https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-
| that-sometimes-...
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| Just keep in mind that therapists are vastly overrated and are
| designed to help you accept where you are.
| ryanklee wrote:
| That's not anything to keep in mind at all. There are many
| different kinds of therapies and therapists. Lumping them
| together and writing them off is brutal and insensitive.
|
| People need help understanding how to live. Therapists are
| trained to do that. Some of them are good at it, and some are
| bad at it.
|
| But telling someone who is in need of structured
| introspection and practical cognitive and behavioral
| techniques to NOT go to a therapist is really pretty
| horrible.
| [deleted]
| tartoran wrote:
| Oh well, accepting who you are helps end a lot of internal
| struggles which leaves you with a bit of leftover bandwidth
| to improve ones life and enjoy small bits of it. What is
| wrong with that? If one goes to therapy with the expectation
| of becoming a complete different person they'd be sorely
| dissapointed.
|
| Therapy can solve other issues too but one should first
| accept who they are
| ErikVandeWater wrote:
| People always leave out recommending medication. It is most
| effective to have medication and therapy.
| pydanny wrote:
| At 40 I had a stalled career and an unfortunate marriage where we
| truly disliked reach other; I was extremely unhappy and bitter. I
| felt that I was stuck and wondered if this was my lot in life.
|
| I stepped clear. I got divorced. I started over. The coding
| skills I had I re-applied to things I wanted to do. My ex moved
| on and found someone good for her.
|
| In the years that followed I found the love of my life and had a
| beautiful daughter. Restarting was a great move for me.
|
| But a lot of the bitterness and anger remained. I've been a total
| jerk at times. It took a long time to get over the frustrations
| caused by staying in my old place for so long. I found therapy
| and constructive outlets for myself, got over many of the dark
| feelings, and I believe I've become a better person for it.
|
| My story is my own, not yours. However, what I can say is get
| yourself to a therapist. If you can change your life now, why not
| try to do so?
| DrNosferatu wrote:
| Therapy is a must.
|
| You are in Germany, is this correct?
|
| (if not, and if you have the possibility [from your username],
| actually consider moving back there as access to free mental
| health care is much easier)
|
| Germany has Krankenkassa-covered access to therapy, and even
| Krankenkassa-covered clinics specializing in recovery from
| depression and other conditions - many times no pills, multimodal
| talk and art therapy approaches.
|
| See _any_ registered family doctor / Hausarzt ASAP: speak about
| your symptoms and ask about your options. If you are an EU
| citizen and already living in Germany, you will be covered by the
| European Health Insurance Card.
|
| If you don't speak German, there are several 'tricks' to make the
| system work for you nevertheless ;)
|
| PS: Resort only to *licensed*, accredited professionals - accept
| only what's paid by the Krankenkassa, as they have made the due-
| diligence. You shouldn't have to pay (almost) anything yourself!
|
| Finally, very important: Make sure you only engage with
| professionals YOU FEEL comfortable with. The German system allows
| you to try out a number of different therapists before committing
| to one - ask the doctor who will prescribe the psychotherapy how
| this works, or your Krankenkassa directly.
| soheil wrote:
| I'd go one step further and recommend a real doctor, a
| psychiatrist.
| DrNosferatu wrote:
| The professionals providing the treatment will decide.
|
| Nevertheless IMHO, I think at least a component of therapy is
| paramount, as there is the need to change the life outlook to
| a growth one. You can't do that on pills alone.
| ws404 wrote:
| My family has a healthy dose of depression passed down. I can
| read it in every word you're writing. It's just a chemical
| reaction, you can defeat it but it will be tough. Incremental
| improvement is crucial, you don't need to make big changes, but
| small ones.
|
| Achievement cures depression. Any achievement. Dead time
| exacerbates depression - i.e. watching TV, drinking, drugs,
| playing mindless games, social media, porn, hell even reading
| sometimes if it's trash and you're just reading to escape your
| reality. One to two hours of entertainment time a day is fine,
| but more than that will just make you feel worse. Quit escaping
| your life because it's shitty or it will remain shitty.
|
| So try this, set a small goal for yourself, either fitness or
| professional. You could take an online course to refresh your BI
| skills. Give that 100%. Knock it out, get some kind of
| certificate. Frame it.
|
| Fitness always makes me feel better (plus it boosts serotonin).
| Try the "Couch to 5k" program online. You start just doing a
| light walk and jog, next thing you know you're running a race.
| That will make you feel great, I promise, it's awesome. If you
| have bad knees or something buy a bike, do a bike race.
|
| Pick one small thing that you can win at, a relatively easy goal.
| Demolish it. The rest will come as you continue to set small
| goals and string wins together. String together enough and you
| turned it around.
|
| Don't worry about what happened already. Stuff happened, now you
| just adapt and overcome.
|
| Never quit.
| wombatpm wrote:
| You can't blame yourself for the past all you do is keep moving
| forward. Asking for help is a good first step. Here is my advice:
|
| Step 1. See a Doctor. Even a primary care doctor can prescribe
| medication. You've been through a lot these past few years, and
| while therapy can help you solve underlying issues, medications
| can help you until that is an available option.
|
| Step 2. Once you are stabilized figure out what's most important.
| Do you want a job, to get married, move to the US? They are all
| possible but you can't focus on three #1 priorities. What if you
| meet a girl who doesn't want to relocate?
|
| Bottom line, you are depressed. I've been there, it sucks. Get
| your mind right first. That will help you tackle your goals and
| dreams.
|
| Meanwhile you have family, you have your health, and you still
| have time. I was 45 when I made my third career change. My email
| is in my profile and I'm happy to talk
| [deleted]
| resource0x wrote:
| > I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house,
| meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late
| for the first few.
|
| No, 42 is not too late. You have to take care of somebody, this
| will fill your life with meaning. This meaning is hard to
| describe (it may not look rational), but you will _feel_ it.
| Also, stop looking for a "meaningful job" - it's unlikely you
| will find one. As soon as you realize that the only thing that
| matters is taking care of your family, the issue of "meaningful
| job" will automatically lose its importance.
| robinsonb5 wrote:
| As others have said there are no magic solutions, but when I was
| at a particularly low point I found this to be a helpful
| resource: https://moodgym.com.au/ I'll be honest, I didn't
| actually complete many of the exercises, but at some point
| something clicked and I understood and internalised the principle
| behind what it's trying to do (essentially training you to re-
| interpret your world in a more constructive and healthy fashion).
| Talking to an actual Cognitive Behavioural Therapist is, of
| course, better - but if you find it difficult to access one the
| website might be helpful.
|
| The only other thing I'd say - and I know this is trite - but
| exercise _is_ helpful, especially if you 're facing something
| that feels overwhelming. I remember one particular morning
| shortly after my father passed away and I was starting to realise
| how much time and effort was going to be spent winding up his
| affairs. At the time I was regularly taking part in fitness
| classes at the gym, and nearly didn't go that morning - but I
| made the effort, and in that hour I went from feeling completely
| overwhelmed to feeling like I could take on anything.
| dools wrote:
| In meditations that I listen to there is a repeated concept that
| comes up over and over: begin again.
|
| Accept what happened, and begin again.
|
| You wanted to meditate and get into an empty state, it didn't
| happen, your thoughts strayed, so what? Begin again.
|
| I see all of life's challenges as nothing more than the chance to
| practise acceptance until I must ultimately accept my own death,
| so plenty of practise is preferred.
|
| That's not to say I don't have ambition and experience joy, quite
| the opposite. By focusing on acceptance I am able to live happily
| in the present more often without guilt or anxiety.
|
| So how do you begin again in life? Answer three questions:
|
| What do I have? What do I want? How can I use what I have to get
| what I want?
| gadders wrote:
| 40 is not even halfway through your life and I'm sure you'll get
| an Act 2. Just keep moving and try and get 1% better every day.
| You've got this.
| quonn wrote:
| Instead of listing everything you want and cannot control it
| could help to focus on things that you can control. In your case
| this would be employment which would help you to regain self
| confidence and potentially allow you to save (towards the house
| you want). Everything else can then fall into place in it's own
| time.
|
| Additionally - and independently - I would encourage taking steps
| that allow you to experience joy. For example, go to a hostel at
| the beach, learn to talk to random strangers there. Teach
| yourself something cheap and fun, like surfing. Start working
| there on the side on the bar to finance it. Maybe add some
| meditation. Or whatever.
| cliftonlabrum wrote:
| I second all the recommendations to seek a mental health
| professional and to connect with others as much as possible.
|
| In today's world, fewer and fewer are interested in religion and
| don't see it as a practical solution for life's problems. But
| I've found what I believe to be truth that provides me with all
| the hope, peace, change, joy, and guidance that I need in my life
| (which has its fair share of problems in my early 40s).
|
| The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has that truth
| and the teachings that can bring you peace and explain the
| purpose of life. Two volumes of scripture--the Bible and the Book
| of Mormon--together explain the purpose of life and how to find
| God and his blessings. These teachings have brought me
| tremendously good things, helped me to change, and provided me
| with sustained peace amidst the chaos of life.
|
| I highly recommend taking a look:
| https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org
| beeburrt wrote:
| I received actual physical proof the Book of Mormon is true.
| badpenny wrote:
| I did it in my mid-to-late 30s. At that point, I had very little
| going for me. Now, I'm married, have a happy kid, have a decent
| job, and have just bought a house.
|
| It can definitely be done; you just need to be patient, love
| yourself, and to want it enough to put in the work.
|
| "First say to yourself what you would be; and then do what you
| have to do." - Epictetus
| sanedigital wrote:
| Potentially risking downvotes, since religion makes people
| uncomfortable, but since you mentioned mental health services are
| lacking, have you tried joining a local church? Priests are the
| original therapists, and it's a great way to meet people.
|
| It's not for everyone, but if you're struggling to find meaning
| in your own life, perhaps looking up is the answer?
| elwell wrote:
| A lot of depression and lost hope is truly a fair assessment of
| this short life on earth. I believe we will find satisfying and
| lasting meaning by connecting with God.
|
| "He has planted eternity in the human heart" -- Ecclesiastes
| 3:11
| peopucjy wrote:
| I'm not a religious person, but I second this. I met my wife
| through a religious institution and I've also made one good
| friend there.
|
| Note that the religion itself doesn't matter as long as you
| feel safe and comfortable with the people there.
|
| Now, with regards to your dreams, are they really _your_
| dreams? Or are you chasing them because, well, everybody else
| is chasing them?
|
| I'm no therapist so please take this advice with a grain of
| salt, but I _felt_ my life improving when I stopped chasing for
| things that I actually didn't value much, such as a prestigios
| career, a beautiful home and family, a nice car, traveling the
| world, buying a big TV, etc. After much introspection, I
| realized that as long as I can pay my bills, have food on the
| table, and have the company of my wife and dog, I don't really
| need more than that.
|
| Obviously we're all different and each of us will have
| different _needs_, but the _wants_ can be quite similar because
| of what we've been told our entire lives.
| antimora wrote:
| You are not alone in this. I feel you. I am in my 40s and I am
| constantly trying to improve myself. I believe it is possible to
| turn yourself around.
|
| I quickly wanted to share fresh resource that might help you. I
| watched this documentary last night which has lots of practical
| advice (tools) from a therapist. I highly recommend to watch when
| you have a chance. It is on Netflix: https://youtu.be/UKCmefQdplI
|
| Called Stutz by Jonah Hill.
| rbanffy wrote:
| A few things:
|
| The HN crowd is not known for kindness, but you can use sincere
| and reason-based advice, something for which the HN crowd is
| excellent at.
|
| I remarried in my early 40's, after leaving a mutually abusive
| relationship. And we got a lovely daughter (with two amazing
| older half-brothers from my previous marriage), moved to Ireland
| and fell in love for the country. You are not past your prime -
| while I miss my 20's brain plasticity, there's a ton of new
| content in my brain that would have been extremely useful in my
| 20's. As for love, it's a lottery. You may find it, you may not.
|
| The MEng degree is a very versatile tool. I'm a BEng and the
| problem-solving mindset has been the foundation of my career, as
| a software engineer, then as a 3D VFX animator, then as an SW
| engineer, manager, and now architect.
|
| As for the depression, reach out for professional help. Find a
| therapist you are comfortable with (it may take more than one
| try), and work from there. I treat mine as a debugger that helps
| me understand how my mind works, and where my blind spots (I've
| got plenty of them) are.
|
| I'm not American, but I've considered offers to move from Brazil
| and Ireland at different times, and the math didn't make sense.
| While compensation packages are better in number, depending on
| where you live costs will eat into that and, since you mentioned
| mental health problems, I'm afraid you'd need to get social
| services that do not exist in the US. Your nickname suggests you
| are German and Germany has world renowned public healthcare
| system - use it until you are better. I understand you were happy
| in the US, and I fell in love with Northern CA during the 90's,
| but the country has changed, in many ways for the worse. Don't
| forget nostalgia is a set of rose-tinted glasses.
|
| You may also be able to move in the EU, for warmer climates and
| lower cost of life. Many friends of mine are quite happy in
| Portugal and Spain and we are considering retiring there in a
| couple decades. Ireland is still hiring IT folk like crazy, but
| Dublin is expensive to live and your reserves are not enough for
| too long (you should always have enough reserves for a couple
| months of unemployment, more if you are at risk of getting
| depressed).
|
| Good luck and feel free to vent as much as you need. I hope I was
| useful.
| just3ws wrote:
| > The HN crowd is not known for kindness, but you can use
| sincere and reason-based advice, something for which the HN
| crowd is excellent at.
|
| ITT: How about both? :D
|
| Scrolling through the comments and this Grinch's heart grew
| three sizes today.
| rbanffy wrote:
| I think most of us try to be better people. It just turns out
| we agree to disagree on how each one will do it ;-)
| pkdpic wrote:
| Come back to the US! Get a Tinder account and go to a software
| dev bootcamp! I had tons of bootcamp students in their 40s trying
| to get back into the workforce after long breaks and it worked
| for them. And 40s isnt too old too old to start a family!
| TurkishPoptart wrote:
| I'm 33 and think my life is over because I have zero prospects
| for having a family of my own, or a normal social life. I
| sympathize with OP.
| mykowebhn wrote:
| Yes, as others have already said, please seek professional help
| right away. I wish you the best, and please hang in there. It
| does get better.
|
| At 36, my mother, with whom I had a complex relationship, passed
| away, I separated from my wife of 10 years, I quit my career as a
| chip designer in the hopes of finding something more satisfying
| to me, and I lost many friends as a result of all of this. At the
| time, things couldn't seem to get any lower for me. I did spend a
| lot of time with a therapist and I worked very hard taking care
| of myself through all of this.
|
| Fast forward a decade and a half and I couldn't be happier.
| Please hang in there and spend some time on healing and getting
| better. Boa sorte.
| alfor wrote:
| Start listening/reading Jordan Peterson
|
| Get religious. We are meant to have a story we fit into, this had
| been religion for every culture as far as we know. The modern
| atheist man is lost, nihilist, doomed in most cases.
|
| Depression is a way your body/mind tell you something is not
| working, that the things you are pursuing are not worth it (loose
| interest in everything)
|
| If you go into a religious practice, there is process to forgive
| yourself (procrastination) and a path to push forward to
| something good (wife, family, etc)
|
| Woman are starving for a decent man that want to be usefull and
| do good things.
| rchaud wrote:
| > Start listening/reading Jordan Peterson
|
| Think Mr. P needs to get a handle on his own life before his
| advice can be recommended to others.
| jackmott42 wrote:
| Nothing major but about when I turned 40 I went and did a lot of
| fun exploration of new programming languages and ideas. I did
| some game projects, some coding challenges on various websites,
| some hobby open source contributions and projects. It was all
| work very different than my day job, played with a lot of new
| languages. F#, Rust, Typescript, Nim, Go etc.
|
| This ended up being really good when job hunting, I was up on all
| the hip new stuff, so I don't come across as being dated, and it
| was fun and I learned a lot. This didn't result in a total career
| turnaround or anything but I did get a lot of offers and better
| pay the next time I had to get a new job.
|
| Sounds like you have some decent fundamentals and could easily
| ramp up skills in some field you are interested in and get more
| interesting work.
| CodeWriter23 wrote:
| Start by addressing the basics. Get out of the house frequently,
| get around other people. Spend 1 hour a day walking in the
| sunlight. Climbing hills and/or exerting yourself can help you
| feel better about yourself. Do your own research on vitamin /
| mineral deficiencies. I find B vitamins and magnesium supplements
| plus potassium-rich foods to be beneficial.
| hashasyn wrote:
| I don't think that you are too old for anything that you said you
| are. You _feel_ old, as in lack of energy, or motivation, for
| example, which is an entirely different thing. Having a sport
| routine will most certainly address that. For example, in the
| morning after I wake up works for me, as it gives a boost of
| energy for the rest of the day. It will take about 30 days to get
| used to a routine, after that you will feel like you need it :)
| As for the emotional need, that is the next critical thing to
| address. There are a lot of decent women in your age range, some
| of them after a failed marriage, which are looking for an
| emotional connection and a relationship, just like you. Put
| yourself out there, and let the matching algorithms do their
| thing. I met my wife using Tinder. It s a good start.
| poulpy123 wrote:
| As the top comment says: you need to see a psychiatrist. You are
| manifestly depressive, and that not something that heals by
| moving to another country (except the rare case of the source of
| the depression is the country)
| diamondage wrote:
| Well I know a guy who worked in the same TV shop until his 40's,
| when his dad died. Then he got a job in an oil company, took all
| the most dangerous jobs, travelled all the way round the world,
| was kidnapped in Nigeria, met a Turkish nurse on the Syrian
| border, got married and now lives with her on the Mediterranean
| coast.
|
| If you want another story listen to how KFC was founded - that
| guy was 67.
|
| You were there when you Dad died, some people don't get that
| closure... Now your decisions are about what you want.
| unrealp wrote:
| I am 42, single, similar situation. I was in a pretty dark place
| around 38 or so. I happened to read "man's search for meaning" by
| victor frankl and it honestly helped A LOT. When we are young and
| nature is working for our benefit, we should search for
| happiness. Beyond that, we need to search for meaning.
|
| There are 2 meanings implicit and third one you can pursue. 1)
| Search for meaning is meaningful itself.
|
| 2) Human life has intrinsic meaning. I dont agree with nihilism
| that life has no meaning. Life has no 'given' meaning - correct.
| But since we are conscious, there is a living being going through
| experiences, there is intrinsic meaning to human life.
| Consciousness gives meaning to everything. In absence of
| consciousness, nothing has meaning. This intrinsic meaning is
| irrespective of life success. Even for a complete failure, since
| a real living being went through this life, the life still has
| meaning.
|
| 3) External meaning. This is related to success happiness
| relationships helping others etc. This is a bit fragile, since if
| you lose these things then you lose meaning. And if you are not
| successful, life might feel meaningless.
|
| A healthy life is a balance of pursuing external meaning and
| accepting and giving value to internal meaning.
|
| It is not happiness vs meaning. happiness is one of the things
| that gives meaning to human life.
|
| Wish you all the best.
| flybrand wrote:
| Frankl is a great place to start.
| soheil wrote:
| No a psychiatrist is. Stop wasting people's time and put them
| in more danger than they already are.
| dubeye wrote:
| Speaking as someone who has done both, you are wrong, it's
| a great place to start
| murat124 wrote:
| There are many answers to what is the meaning of life. Lacking
| some important aspects of life like family, career, etc.
| because of past decisions, or losing someone dear may put
| anyone in a situation where they question the very meaning of
| life and even when things are all fine we look for a purpose to
| make sense of things around us. Some philosophers look at this
| question and argue for passion, some inner peace. Frankl says
| one needs to seek their own meaning of life. Find whatever it
| is, make it meaningful for you and hold on to it.
|
| If you are in a dark place do yourself a solid and try reading
| Frankl's book mentioned by OP. Reading about Montaigne's life
| (there's a recent bio book about him) may also help. Seneca's
| or Marcus Aurelius's writings will also help when it
| particularly comes to the issue of how worrying too much about
| things we can't control affects us. Every living breathing soul
| has their own demons and issues with life, you have yours so
| most importantly go easy on yourself.
| xylophile wrote:
| Another bit of recommended reading is The Myth of Sisyphus by
| Albert Camus.
|
| I had read Frankl years prior, and while he helped me
| thoroughly understand the concept of meaning and the immense
| value of it, he didn't help me find it when I needed it. All of
| his suggested paths felt a bit wishful or self-deceptive.
| Absurdism was the only conversation that felt like it was
| grappling with the problem directly and unadorned.
| lo_zamoyski wrote:
| > Life has no 'given' meaning
|
| Careful [0].
|
| The conclusion that life is meaningless as such is what follows
| from materialism by necessity. What is often unappreciated is
| that bad metaphysics leads to bad ideas, in this case that life
| is meaningless. And why is materialism at fault? Because it
| denies telos. Without telos, life is, indeed and quite
| literally, meaningless. But why should that trouble us if we,
| the world, all of it, were as the materialists say it is? Needs
| don't exist in a materialist universe because need implies
| telos (a need is always _for the sake of_ something), and we
| suffer when needs aren 't met, so where is this suffering about
| there not being any meaning in the first place coming from? So
| clearly, telos is real and materialism is, for this and other
| reasons, wrong. Otherwise, it makes no difference how you live,
| or even whether you live or die. Why should it bother you? It's
| all meaningless!
|
| Another source of "meaninglessness" is moral in nature,
| specifically, that somewhere in our lives we pridefully
| rejected meaning because it opposed something illicit we wanted
| to do. Telos is the basis of morality, after all. This is
| something Aldous Huxley has written about. To quote him[1]:
|
| "I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning; and
| consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any
| difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. The
| philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned
| exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics. He is also
| concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he
| personally should not do as he wants to do. For myself, as no
| doubt for most of my friends, the philosophy of meaninglessness
| was essentially an instrument of liberation from a certain
| system of morality. We objected to the morality because it
| interfered with our sexual freedom. The supporters of this
| system claimed that it embodied the meaning - the Christian
| meaning, they insisted - of the world. There was one admirably
| simple method of confuting these people and justifying
| ourselves in our erotic revolt: we would deny that the world
| had any meaning whatever."
|
| Now, this sort of stuff about "consciousness" is like an
| existentialist opiate that temporarily soothes the pain of
| half-baked nihilism, but it is fragile b/c it is incoherent.
| Everything is meaningless, but I can invent meaning ex nihilo
| b/c "consciousness"? It sounds like we've quietly retreated
| from materialism into some kind of strange dualism where
| everything is meaningless but somehow "consciousness" is now
| pregnant with meaning. This may be the cunning of reason,
| leading us back slowly to the telos of human nature through a
| series of metaphysical halfway houses.
|
| That's the theory. Practically speaking, people say one thing,
| but implicitly mean something else (materialists don't believe
| materialism with any real integrity because it is impossible).
| So when you say that "consciousness" gives meaning, you may in
| practice simply mean "This is the meaning I perceive" which may
| very well be the objective meaning. Or, it could be a way of
| maintaining one's refusal to conform to objective meaning and
| therefore objective moral duties by retreating into the virtual
| reality of subjectivism (this never ends well).
|
| > happiness is one of the things that gives meaning to human
| life.
|
| This is exactly backwards. Happiness is the result of
| satisfying the end(s) of human nature. Happiness is
| teleological and therefore presupposes meaning, not the other
| way around.
|
| Of course, we are not guaranteed complete happiness in this
| life, but Kant, in a stoically severe bit of insight, said we
| nonetheless ought to strive to be _deserving_ of happiness.
| This is the life of virtue.
|
| [0] https://thomism.wordpress.com/2022/12/07/meaning-
| simpliciter...
|
| [1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/465563-i-had-motives-for-
| no...
| ARK_12 wrote:
| As others mentioned i would seek professional advice.
|
| But here's my anecdotal advice, whenever i feel self pity and
| overwhelmed to the level where i don't know where to start, i try
| to get back to basics and focus on small picture stuff that are
| within my control. Anything that you'd be happy with doing for
| the day, that depends on only yourself and not other's approval.
|
| Start with trying to improve your mental health and mood, wether
| its a small level of exercise, better diet, saying yes to any
| social occasion, change of scenery ...
|
| Once my mental outlook improves, the rest of my approach to life
| improves.
|
| P.S the fact that you took steps to reach out for help is a good
| sign
| sokoloff wrote:
| Whatever water has passed by the bridge is passed. Ignore it.
|
| If you're healthy, mid-40s, positive net worth, logical mind, and
| engineering degree, you're starting so far ahead of the median
| condition that it's almost not funny.
|
| The tech job market is temporarily depressed, but I think that
| will start coming back in 2023.
|
| Don't focus on the past; realize you have a great position right
| now and that it's just a framing question as to whether you see
| right now as a starting point or not.
|
| Mid-40s is not too late to have a spouse, kids, a house, etc.
| Plenty of people have started from far worse and done just fine
| without any exceptional luck.
| lun4r wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear that you're going through such a difficult time
| and that you've been feeling isolated and depressed. It takes a
| lot of courage to ask for help and to reach out for support, and
| I'm here to listen and offer some suggestions.
|
| First, it's important to address your suicidal thoughts. If
| you're feeling like you might harm yourself or take your own
| life, it's important to get help as soon as possible. You can
| call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline in the US at
| 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or in your home country, you can find
| resources through the International Association for Suicide
| Prevention.
|
| It's also a good idea to speak with a mental health professional
| who can provide you with support and guidance. If you're unable
| to access mental health services in your small town, there are
| other options available to you, such as online therapy or
| teletherapy. These services allow you to meet with a therapist
| remotely, either by phone or video, and can be an effective way
| to get the help you need.
|
| In terms of your long-term goals, it sounds like you're feeling
| lost and unsure of how to move forward. It's understandable that
| you're feeling this way, given all that you've been through and
| the fact that you've been out of the workforce for a decade. But
| it's important to remember that it's never too late to make
| positive changes in your life.
|
| One thing you might consider is seeking out opportunities to gain
| new skills or education that can help you reenter the workforce.
| This could be through online courses, local community college
| classes, or vocational training programs. You could also consider
| volunteering or interning in a field that interests you, as a way
| to gain experience and build your professional network.
|
| It's also important to take care of yourself physically and
| emotionally. This can include finding ways to manage your stress
| and anxiety, such as through exercise, meditation, or other
| activities that help you feel grounded and centered. Surrounding
| yourself with supportive friends and family can also be helpful.
|
| I understand that it's not easy to make these kinds of changes,
| especially when you're feeling down and discouraged. But please
| remember that you are not alone and that there are people who
| care about you and want to help. Reach out to a trusted friend,
| family member, or mental health professional for support, and
| don't hesitate to seek out additional resources if you need them.
| noufalibrahim wrote:
| There are many things that you can do. The threads cover most of
| them. However, I do have to emphasise that you can't do this
| alone. The cartoon idea of a long warrior going out on his own
| and building his empire is not realistic. You need a network of
| people with a good intersection of interests and ambitions (e.g.
| male, profession, interests, cultural/religious backgrounds
| etc.). There are ways to develop this. Finding small groups in
| your neighbourhood etc. are options.
| monero-xmr wrote:
| You are in a deep hole right now with multiple issues that feed
| off each other, affect your mental state, and make it hard to
| solve any one of the issues.
|
| Obviously I am only going off of what you wrote here, which is
| brief and lacking all the context. I have absorbed it and am
| responding the way I interpreted it, and I could be way off.
|
| You have a lot of regret, and regret feeds into "rumination" -
| the endless loop of replaying past events and perceived failures
| in your head. You should accept that today is a new day, you
| still have half your life left, and endlessly worrying and
| fixating on the past is not going to help you get out of this
| hole. Probably at this point you have thought about the past so
| much that there isn't much that thinking about it more will do.
|
| Next, you should forgive yourself. You aren't a failure. You
| aren't a loser. Mistakes in the past are just that - mistakes.
| People can change and the first step is recognizing you want to
| change. You have so much time left and so much to live for.
|
| You have something that so many people on earth want badly -
| their health and decades of life left to live. You can't imagine
| how many sick, elderly, disabled people would trade places you in
| a heartbeat. That isn't to say those people are without value
| (absolutely not!) I am just trying to put in your mind how
| blessed you are that you have your health and a long time to fix
| your issues.
|
| You are not in any current mental state to date someone. I would
| focus on healing yourself and making yourself desirable to
| someone else before attempting the wife and kids, otherwise it
| will be a lot of regret. Dating is putting your best self out
| there as an attractive mate and being very depressed, anxious,
| and full of self-loathing will lead to more rejection which will
| just fuel more of the same feelings. You need to work on yourself
| before you can be ready to find a life partner. And plenty of men
| have kids in their late 40s or 50s - I know a guy who just had a
| kid at 65, for better or worse. As a male you can have children
| until the day you die, if that's what you want. The door is not
| closed on this.
|
| Multiple other problems are here. Loneliness and lack of purpose
| are coming through strong. I think you should try and get a job
| (even a minimum-wage one) or volunteer in a place that involves
| other people. This could be at a restaurant, a pizza parlor, at a
| soup kitchen, working a customer-facing position, something low-
| risk where if you just can't hack it you can quit without much of
| an issue or reputational harm. You will start talking to people
| regularly and often you will interact with them not just about
| work or solving their customer issue, but start chatting about
| the weather, their families, and perhaps deeper things. I think
| this will help you come out of your self-imposed NEET shell and
| start becoming a normal person again. Often these jobs will lead
| you to getting to know your coworkers better and you might get
| invited to work-parties or similar things. There is no shame in
| working a food job or something like this, all work has value and
| provides purpose.
|
| Finally, I have no idea if you are religious at all, but
| investigating religion or the spiritual side of existence may
| help you. Attending a Sunday worship be it Catholic, Eastern
| Orthodox, Protestant, or whatever has absolutely no requirement
| of you and it may deeply affect you in a way you aren't
| expecting. You can always leave or never come back, you may want
| to give it a try. Thoughts of the afterlife and "what all this
| means" is a common issue for people entering their mid-life and
| exploring this facet of existence may be helpful to you.
|
| Good luck! You can do it. Don't give up! You made it this far,
| and you can make it farther. One day at a time.
| quonn wrote:
| Instead of listing everything you want and cannot control, it
| could help to focus on things that you can control. In your case
| this would be employment which would help you to regain self
| confidence and potentially allow you to save (towards the house
| you want). Everything else can then fall into place in it's own
| time.
|
| Additionally - and independently - I would encourage taking steps
| that allow you to experience joy. For example, go to a hostel
| (but avoid one full of teenagers) at the beach in a cheap place -
| South America or Africa or Asia, learn to talk to random
| strangers there. Teach yourself something cheap and fun, like
| surfing. Start working there on the side on the bar or volunteer
| there to finance it. Maybe add some meditation once you feel
| stable and happy.
| texasbigdata wrote:
| George Bush right?
|
| Abraham Lincoln?
|
| Etc
| boppo1 wrote:
| 30 and on a bullet train to where OP is. Interested in the
| replies.
| tgv wrote:
| You _will_ fail if you set the targets too high. Don 't do
| that. Be happy with what you can achieve and with what you've
| achieved already. Riches and fame are for the lucky few, and
| most of those had rich and famous parents to help them start.
| philk10 wrote:
| Got married at 45, moved to the US at 49 and have had a great 10
| years here and life is good. Before then I was not in a good
| place, same for my future wife, we got lucky and found each other
| and then made it work. Some luck/work was involved - met my wife
| as we were both running websites for our respective daughters
| soccer teams, got my job in the US because I was active in the
| online s/w tester community and saw a posting for a job in
| Michigan which turned out to be the best move I ever made.
| utahcon wrote:
| First, way to go! You've chosen to be vulnerable, and that is a
| great first step.
|
| Second, get a therapist. It may seem expensive, and not helpful
| at first, but as I'm sure you already felt in writing this post,
| just talking about your thoughts and issues really does help.
|
| Third, it's NEVER too late. I'm 42 and learning and growing
| daily. I've had to change a lot in the last decade to remain 1)
| relevant, and 2) in the loop.
|
| I've had to learn to network again, because my original network
| of friends and colleagues dried up. It's possible, and after you
| start with a therapist, it'll be easier and more rewarding than
| ever before.
|
| Finally, and I can't stress this enough, get out and do service
| for others. Soup kitchens, shoveling snow, cutting grass,
| whatever you can do. It will give you an immediate jolt of worth,
| and make the world a better place for all involved.
|
| I wish you luck friend. If you need more talking, let me know
| utahcon [at] utahcon dot com
| soheil wrote:
| caddemon wrote:
| Recognizing and being willing to admit to others that you
| have an issue is a big barrier to mental healthcare though.
| People who won't do that don't see a psychiatrist. So OP has
| taken an important first step that is really difficult for
| some, and maybe was for him. Certainly he should keep the
| momentum going though.
| soheil wrote:
| Of course it is, but it's no place to dwell in.
|
| You wake up and realize you've been in a car crash. Best
| thing to do would be try to reach for immediate help, not
| to focus on or be thankful that you gained consciousness.
| There is a time and place.
| TimedToasts wrote:
| I was 35 when I pulled myself out of a 15 year tailspin. It's
| been more than a decade since but I've maintained all the
| progress that I've made and have fully turned my life around.
| It's possible to do - if that Old Me could do it then you
| definitely can.
|
| You've gotten a ton of advice so I'll keep mine short: Setbacks
| will happen even if you're doing everything 'right'. Life can
| throw a lot of shiz at you for no good reason. Be prepared to
| pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back to it.
|
| It can be done. Hang in there. Best wishes from me and my family.
| gedy wrote:
| 43 is still young! Your body responds well to exercise, that and
| positive attitude can turn your relationship situation around.
| 40s is not too old to be a father. The world is out there, good
| luck.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| Going against the grain here. The only person who can help you is
| you. A good therapist can help you realize that earlier too.
|
| You're going to get many perspectives of how you can help
| yourself in this thread, some will resonate and some won't at
| all.
|
| Facing your longing for happiness and reason may be the very
| thing preventing you from obtaining it. Sometimes in order to
| understand the world, one has to turn away from it on occasion.
|
| In other words, you have to listen to yourself in terms of how to
| turn your life around. Maybe even the fear of being successful
| paralyzes you from beginning.
| digitaltrees wrote:
| where did the idea come from that you missed the prime years of
| life? What facts support that? I am in my 40s and it is the best
| time of my life so far.
|
| It sounds like you have some definition of what life should be
| and your life isn't meeting your own expectations and yet you
| alone are defining the expectations and deficiencies. How about
| accepting that you are perfect and your life is perfect how it
| is? Then if you want to add something more you can but not from a
| base feeling of unworthiness and disappointment.
|
| There are tons of people that aren't married and have no house or
| kids and love life. But that's because they define that as the
| good life. There are tons of people that are married with a house
| and kids and are miserable and wish they were single and un-
| encumbered. Only you get to set the definition of the good life.
| Start by seeing what you have that is working. You probably have
| health, intelligence, ext. celebrate that. Get to a place of
| gratitude not unfulfilled expectations.
| vjulian wrote:
| No offense to the reply, but "need a therapist" is a very
| American response and a bit of a cop out.
|
| OP, I've seen many people turn around after aged 40, including a
| friend who got married for the first time at aged 58. She's
| energetic and attractive and incidentally also turned her life
| around after 40.
|
| My two pennies would suggest you throw the past expectations out
| the window, determine where your passions lie, and set short-term
| intentions / goals. I might also suggest looking to groups where
| people are successful but take approaches outside the norm. My
| friend for example is a successful physician and involved in a
| Yoga community that is global and inexpensive and where he can
| meet others of like kind. Build community for yourself.
| ravenstine wrote:
| THANK YOU
|
| I know "see a therapist" is generally meant well, and therapy
| _can_ definitely help, but people are _way_ too quick to
| suggest it, and suggest it as a _must_. It can communicate that
| a person is broken when their situation can be due to any
| number of things besides brokenness. I think most people know
| that therapy is an option, and I think many also underestimate
| the difficulty in not only finding an _adequate_ therapist but
| a therapist at all in any reasonable amount of time.
| skippyboxedhero wrote:
| I went through quite a bad phase...I started having mental-
| health problems, this triggered changes in my life that made
| everything worse, causing more problems, spiral.
|
| I have been through three course of therapy, they helped me
| understand what was happening when I had an episode but...I
| was still in the same place, and that made all my mental-
| health problems worse (this isn't a post about that...but
| everything changed when one aspect of my material situation
| changed...when you go through this, everyone who has never
| had a problem like this will tell you therapy will
| help...maybe it will but your material situation is more
| important...there is no-one selling "material situations" at
| $200/hour though, so that tends to be emphasized less). No-
| one wants to acknowledge this because it makes mental health
| a trickier problem to solve.
|
| I will say generally too: putting yourself in a situation
| where you are constantly looking for "the answer" is
| fundamentally unhelpful. You may not be able to overcome it
| yourself, but that doesn't mean a therapist can help.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| Whatever man. Nobody is implying that therapy means you are
| broken. It's about growth and self actualization.
|
| Lots of people use "therapy" for performance optimization for
| example: sports psychology.
| ravenstine wrote:
| That's really conflating two distinct things. Therapy is by
| definition the treatment of a pathology. A particular area
| of psychology doesn't necessarily have anything to do with
| pathology or malfunction.
|
| > It's about growth and self actualization.
|
| I don't think the majority of people seeking therapy are
| doing so merely because they want to self actualize. Self
| actualization and growth may be a part of therapy, or be a
| next step as roadblocks are overcome, but implying that
| therapy isn't about addressing problems seems naive or
| disingenuous. Performance optimization really has little to
| do with what people actually mean when they're suggesting
| "therapy."
| theGnuMe wrote:
| That's a strange definition of therapy.
| ravenstine wrote:
| I have an idea. You do a cursory investigation on what
| "therapy" is and the come back here and tell us why my
| definition of therapy is strange.
|
| When someone refers others to therapy in a generic sense,
| why do you think that's effectively the same as
| suggesting self actualization? Is the other party looking
| for self actualization, or are they probably looking to
| figure out the root of their problems?
| mancerayder wrote:
| "See a Therapist" being the first, top-voted comment is to me
| a _sign_ of a sick society, where loneliness reigns. In a
| world where in middle-age your closest friends are married
| with kids, and most people prefer to be 'remote-first' in
| friendships (you chat online with even friends you know), the
| answer "see a therapist" is for most people instead just a
| proxy for the gap: the gap of close friends and family to be
| able to bounce ideas and feelings off of.
|
| What should see a therapist is society itself, with top
| answers like that. Therapy should be reserved for the
| eccentric pathologies, not for routine middle-age crises and
| life situations.
| ineedausername wrote:
| You hit the nail on the head, but it's too late for that
| now, therapy is the new trend and will only keep growing
| from here. And it's not a bad idea, what do you have to
| loose anyway.
|
| In a sick society, everyone is sick by definition anyway...
| so yeah... therapy
| enneff wrote:
| Why so hostile to therapy? I have a great supportive
| network of friends and family, but even so a few times in
| my life I have seen a psychologist that gave me actionable
| advice that really helped me deal with personal hardships.
| An impartial trained professional can often see much more
| clearly what you're blind to; friends mean well but
| sometimes their intuitive advice is actually the opposite
| of what you need to hear.
| barry-cotter wrote:
| Why would you call a therapist an impartial, trained
| professional? They're no more impartial than a priest or
| imam and their provisional training has no bearing on the
| effectiveness of their treatment. By far the most
| important predictor of a positive impact of sending a
| therapist is the feeling that you and they have similar
| values and are working together[1]. Much as with teachers
| training has no detectable impact on effectiveness while
| experience does[2]. A priest who vines with you is as
| good as counselling as a therapist. It's the vibes that
| matter, not the trappings of professionalism.
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_alliance#
| :~:text....
|
| https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Crits-
| Christoph/pu...
|
| [2] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1971-10064-001
| throw1234651234 wrote:
| An impartial, trained professional...in what exactly?
| Therapists / psychologists are glorified life coaches.
| "Psychology" is a mess. All therapists can do is act as a
| programming rubber duck equivalent.
|
| What makes the psychologist more qualified to give advice
| to you than yourself?
|
| Maybe the misconception comes from this "training" idea -
| people think there is some magical solution in psychology
| and it's not all a pseudo-science. P.S. if you are a
| trained psychologists, try to summarize psychology to me.
| Tell me what's left after you take away the failed
| theories of Freud, aversion therapy, Jung, etc?
| filereaper wrote:
| Its better than the OP seeks help from someone trained in this
| domain rather than getting an anecdotal therapy session from
| these comments.
|
| Getting professional help shouldn't be stigmatized as a cop
| out.
| shadowbanned-00 wrote:
| Therapy is like covid boosters. Every two months for infinity
| and you never get any better.
| tw600040 wrote:
| Agree 100%. One needs help for sure, but help doesn't mean
| therapist. It's someone who cares, parents / sibling / spouse /
| cousins some family or close friends who truly care. Don't be
| alone
| soheil wrote:
| > No offense to the reply, but "need a therapist" is a very
| American response and a bit of a cop out.
|
| Why?
|
| I'd change it to "need a psychiatrist".
| vjulian wrote:
| I don't follow your last sentence.
|
| Why? Because it is a very American approach that is less the
| norm elsewhere. Therapy is not an industry to such a degree
| necessarily in other countries. Cop-out because it is akin to
| RTFM, 'go Google it', 'delete and re-install'. If one doesn't
| have a personal viewpoint, why bother responding.
| halkony wrote:
| Psychiatrists differ from therapists in the US because they
| can prescribe meds. Antidepressants, ADHD meds, etc. Not
| sure what his point is though.
|
| I understand your frustration with the "go to therapy"
| response. Even in the US there is a dismissive undertone to
| comments like this. The reality is that the people who get
| the most out of therapy already have a positive outlook on
| its benefits.
|
| Therapy doesn't fix anyone directly -- it gives a people a
| vehicle to look for ways to fix themselves by talking to a
| non-judgmental arbiter. People that have already done that
| tend to take it for granted and obviously there's a ton of
| variance in results/quality of therapeutic conversation.
| caddemon wrote:
| Eh I don't think a random non-judgemental arbiter would
| have the same efficacy. Therapy also usually involves
| teaching specific tools for dealing with negative
| thoughts. Parts of that could be outsourced to a
| workbook, but at times there is helpful personalization
| that occurs.
|
| It's totally true that it requires some buy-in, but so
| does an exercise routine. Things that require effort
| require buy-in.
|
| It is also true that there's a ton of variance and that
| some people who give it an honest try still don't really
| improve. This stuff is still really poorly understood for
| the most part, and I don't think therapy is a silver
| bullet. Neither is anything else anyone suggests.
|
| So yeah therapy is far from perfect, but I think it's
| selling it a bit short to suggest that the entire effect
| boils down to a facilitated self-conversation.
|
| I also don't get why others are so annoyed by the therapy
| suggestion, as I don't really see the downside of trying
| it. OP should look into all the options he might have,
| which IMO is the point of seeking community advice.
| You're not going to get an exact answer from HN comments,
| just some ideas.
| soheil wrote:
| What? No it's like format whatever that shit is and install
| Ubuntu.
| vjulian wrote:
| Still not following, but I think that is a function of
| the medium.
|
| I think the US therapist industry is a symptom of its
| culture and relative lack of community. There is an
| important role for mental health professionals, don't get
| me wrong. I'm referring more to the industry of mental
| health.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| What other countries are you thinking about? Certainly in
| other nations with higher degrees of religiosity and
| intact community, people may share their issues with
| clerical figures.
|
| Certainly the American mental health industry, especially
| the pharmaceutical component, is skewed by all sorts of
| misaligned incentives. But I doubt that Europeans,
| Canadians, or Australians are not taking advantage of
| therapy options offered by national health systems.
| tacticalturtle wrote:
| Not the original poster, but regarding the last sentence, a
| psychiatrist is a medical doctor who can prescribe
| medication.
|
| A medical doctor can evaluate the OP much better than we
| can, and determine if medication may be able to help, in
| addition to changing thinking patterns.
| mberning wrote:
| I agree 100%. It can help some people, but it's not a panacea.
| I have known people that went to therapists for years and
| didn't really make any progress. And some people arguably get
| worse. For example, what's the benefit of a therapist that
| gives you the illusion of making progress and you stay in a
| poor relationship longer than you otherwise would. That
| actually happened to someone I know. They stayed in a
| relationship for years trying to "fix" things. Then within a
| year they left their crappy situation, met someone way better,
| and is happier than ever. Be careful with seeing a therapist.
| And be very careful recommending them to people. I think a lot
| of people doing the recommending don't actually have first hand
| experience with it.
| a123b456c wrote:
| It's easy to find a therapist. It's much harder to find the
| right therapist for you.
| senbrow wrote:
| 10000%; I thought therapy was pretty ineffective until I
| found a therapist that is a good fit, at which point I
| realized that a lot of therapists are just straight up bad
| at their jobs.
|
| Therapists that are well matched to their patients are
| capable of truly incredible stuff.
| skippyboxedhero wrote:
| Been through something similar (a bit younger). I am still going
| through it I suppose...but here is what I think.
|
| You can put labels on yourself like: professional network is
| dead, single loser, prime is gone (this is all stuff I have
| thought too)...that stuff may be true, but you are shutting
| yourself down. You aren't even waiting for people to say no, you
| are saying no to yourself.
|
| Ultimately, you can't change what has been.
|
| I know what it feels like: you see someone in the news, you look
| and see how old they are, was their success continued through
| their life...but you are you. Maybe no-one has ever done it but
| does that mean you can't? Don't ask people online (do you want
| someone on here to tell you it is impossible so you don't feel as
| bad?), find out for yourself.
|
| You say you lie to yourself...but you also quite critical of
| yourself too. Have you accepted what has already happened? You
| have struggled. That is it. You may get rejected if you try move
| past this, people will tell you no but if you are just waiting
| for validation passively...you will never get anywhere. This will
| get worse. The way out could come tomorrow.
|
| Saying that you need to move to X or you need to do Y first...it
| is just an excuse for your current situation.
| wppick wrote:
| Take it one day at a time. I have been overweight pretty much my
| whole life, and recently lost about 30 lbs. You have to just take
| these things a day at a time. You aren't going to lose 30 lbs in
| a day, a week, or even a month. You need to make sure EVERY day
| is a victory moving you closer to your goal. For me that was
| controlling what I ate to make sure I was in a calorie deficit.
| For you this could be something like meeting/talking to a new
| person EVERY DAY to build your network, or studying a certain
| amount of hours per day, etc. If you let one day slip, then you
| will let another slip, so you have to make the effort to keep
| disciplined. The second thing is tracking that you are on the
| right path. Again for me that was using a weight scale, but you
| should define your own metrics. Good luck, and start TODAY!
| strangedud wrote:
| Therapist, excercise (3+ weekly), eat better (protein+veggies are
| the base of this) and quit alcohol. I did all of these in my late
| 30s and in my 40s and I feel younger. When changes you can make
| alone are not enough, therapy (and possibly meds) should do the
| trick. best of luck, and a strangers hug
| dustymcp wrote:
| My mother in law lost her business at 45 as a hairdresser, lost
| most of her savings and had to redo her life entirely, she ended
| up taking a class and switching to caring for disabled/mentally
| challenged? people in a sort of nursing/living facility, it
| completely changed her for the better (no stress or anxiety)
| maybe you need to flip the script aswell?
| andy_ppp wrote:
| I would start off finding some CBT and a professional to help you
| turn things around. The problem you have is framing things badly
| - being depressed/wallowing in how you've wasted your life is not
| going to help you. Movement is vitally important, if you're stuck
| change your location even for a summer - for example I would
| consider if you have the money taking a trip to India and find an
| ashram (I can recommend Sivananda) they helped me a lot. For $12
| per night you get accommodation, delicious vegetarian food and 4h
| yoga per day (also you'll get some practice interacting with
| women) will sort out any of the over thinking you seem to be
| experiencing. That's just an example of the freedom you have to
| still do things that excite you, maybe it's Machu Picchu or the
| Himalayas or something else. Get out of your head and make a
| plan.
|
| I'm far from perfect but I've been doing what I call 75 medium
| hard (you can google the original plan 75 hard). It's basically a
| 45 min walk, 45 mins other exercise (I alternate strength
| training and zone 2 indoor cycling), read 10 pages of a book,
| drink at least 2 litres of water in addition to other drinks,
| have a diet with no alcohol. It is starting to feel really good
| every time I succeed every day and it's day 18 now. Also if you
| want to be less worried about your own problems I'd strongly
| advise reading Man's Search for Meaning - a book with such
| astonishing darkness in it that it's impossible to feel self pity
| while reading it.
|
| I hope you realise that you aren't as stuck as you believe and
| that a few forward moves can really get you back on track a lot
| quicker than you think. Stop thinking and start acting.
| wojciii wrote:
| You can have kids. You just need a 10 years younger wife.
|
| I think that it's quite hard to handle the lack of sleep for more
| mature people so that might be a problem, but please don't think
| that having kids is too late. It's too late in your 70'ies.
|
| It got my shit together in my late 30ies. Got married and got two
| kids.
|
| I spent a lot of time on making myself more attractive to the
| opposite sex prior to meeting my wife. I ran and worked out a lot
| and managed to attract some attention which I didn't get when I
| was a nerdy fat guy.
|
| I never lacked work but had some some time off work because I'm
| weird and quirky and people usually don't get me the first time.
|
| I really like what I'm doing with my life now (being soon 45) as
| opposed to how I behaved 10 years ago.
|
| So yes, it seems that its possible to turn your life around. :)
| nixpulvis wrote:
| I'm perhaps to young to really offer any advice, but...
|
| Do not confuse the need for yourself to improve from the need for
| our society to support you better. Likely both need work, but in
| understanding the difference, perhaps you will find the best
| outlets for your problems.
|
| You mention not living in the US, so I can't speak to what
| society is like there either. But, the issues with isolationism
| and technology transcend borders.
| ArcMex wrote:
| First, find a job.
|
| Any job you are willing to do.
|
| That should add some stability in your life as a start.
| PikelEmi wrote:
| You absolutely do not have the best behind you! My bug
| "turnaround" came in the beginning of mt 50ies. Finally got to a
| stage in job life I like and also meet the woman of my life
| (after many years as single) and got married. I still feel that I
| haven't had the best yet when it come to job life and I plan to
| continue at least 20+ years working and have no plans of
| retirement. Today it make no sense at all to think about age,
| just keep up your motivation, drive and stay healthy and you can
| go on "forever". Find out what you really want to do and do it.
| There are no limits here in life
| Arisaka1 wrote:
| 40 years old. I used to work doing odd jobs, but during the
| quarantine decided to pick up programming because I was always a
| gamer and my desktop was where I would spent most of my time. I
| also have an unidentified health problem, which is to say that
| the symptoms are obvious to the naked eye but the cause isn't.
|
| So I thought "maybe this will be fun to do, and if I'm good at it
| perhaps I'll be able to afford healthcare". At this point, I'm
| not delusional enough to think that this problem has a definitive
| treatment, but it's better to try than doing nothing.
|
| At first I worked with the pomodoro technique, but nowadays I
| only use pomodoro to remind myself to take breaks. I ended up
| getting really addicted to studying and building stuff when
| initially every little red squiggly line would be an attack to my
| self-esteem and proof of my incompetence, but now I'm just
| embracing the chaos and have fun with it!
|
| I've been working as a fullstack developer for a little over a
| year, and on my free time I focus to build my backend development
| skills. Unfortunately, my current company has no room for backend
| at all as they're mostly writing AI solutions, and in spite of
| the fact that I expressed my passion to dive deeper in API and
| database design my CTO gave me the cold shoulder. But at least I
| have _some_ experience which I can market for my next job.
|
| It also helps that I have no desire to have children or even
| date. Maybe it's my low self-esteem but I cannot imagine ever
| finding someone who would want me with my disease, so this career
| is all I love (outside of the usual hobbies).
| just3ws wrote:
| Just turned 47 this morning. I do have the kids, house, and
| accomplished most of the things I wanted to when I was a kid...
| but there's always more, there's always the things I haven't
| done, the things I have failed at, and the list goes on. I too
| feel the bitterness, anger, and disillusionment of the current
| state of the economy, my career, etc. I wonder how much of this
| is a product of those of us working in tech related/adjacent
| fields and the industries promises of the past few decades really
| not panning out. I feel like we're in an age of disillusionment
| for those of us who bought into those promises only to ...
| <<gestures broadly at the Internet>>.. see what has come of it.
|
| I am never going to be rich, it is never going to be "easy", and
| while it could be worse it could be a lot fucking better too. And
| it is going to get harder before anything else changes.
|
| What can you do about it? Fuck if I know. I can't deal with my
| own shit. But the one thing that has helped is trying to re-
| evaluate my current situation. Sometimes I feel locked into
| focusing on the things I can't have, the things I didn't
| accomplish, the mistakes I've made, and just have to accept that
| I cannot change them. I can only look at where I am now, take
| inventory, and try to re-orient myself. I've heard that works for
| others and it has helped me in the past, but it isn't a one-and-
| done exercise. Maybe I'm wrong but it has gotten me this far.
|
| "You Are Not Alone" by Andrew WK (yeah, the Party guy) has been a
| fantastic cathartic resource for this middle aged dude in the
| 202Xs. I recommend a full listen -- end-to-end -- through on
| decent headphones and a place where you can safely process
| emotions. https://red.lnk.to/AWKYNA
|
| Take care man, I hope you find a way to accept where you are,
| that you find peace, and make a plan for where you want to go
| next.
| 2pointsomone wrote:
| Happy Birthday!
| whearyou wrote:
| Hey man lots of courage to ask for help- as others have said a
| therapist will be a huge resource.
|
| Things are far from over yet and I and most on this thread are
| rooting for you.
| jack_riminton wrote:
| I would seriously consider looking into psychedelics as an
| accompaniment to therapy or other help. They helped me immensely
| in getting out of a rut (rut is the best analogy as your brain
| tends to follow the path of least resistance, even if it's
| detrimental to you. Psychedelics release your brain into a host
| of new directions and allow it to create new connections and
| paths)
|
| Clinical studies have found that it is one of the most effective
| cure for a host of mental health issues.
|
| Some references: -
| https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/newsroom/news-releases/... -
| https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220606-psilocybin-how-p...
| _3u10 wrote:
| Couple things:
|
| You have a bad attitude, you get what you accept, you've already
| defeated yourself without even trying.
|
| If you like the US pack your shit and book a flight. Today. Your
| flight is something to look forward to and a deadline for taking
| care of what you need to do to achieve what you want.
|
| Action is going to help you more than talking about your
| problems, stop talking, start fixing.
| quilombodigital wrote:
| I agree with most answers. Therapy is good.
|
| Tried any sports? I am almost 50 and started learning kitesurf...
| it is frightning, but I know I need to expose myself to some
| level of controlled risk, I was always too cautious, never did
| sports, and I want to get old with some health, so I have chosen
| something that I always wanted but never had the courage to do.
|
| About being too late for wife... kids... its never late... the
| problem is if you visualize this girl as someone young, without
| prior kids or life baggage. I am pretty sure there are women
| around, with failed relationships, that would like to connect.
| Part of the process of loving yourself is accepting your age and
| everything you lived as a good thing. every bad decision also
| made what you are, be happy that you learned from them.
|
| People may get angry by this next opinion, but relax, its just an
| opinion, I can change my mind about it by just reading your
| answers, but I particularly think that going back to US will not
| help you, because even if you want to be in a different mindset
| than the last time, to enjoy better the life there, everybody
| else there dont have this mindset (with very rare exceptions), so
| you will not have company for your "carpe diem" moments.
|
| This is a long shot, but you should read about AHDH and see if
| you correlate. There is a difference between beeing depressed and
| being irritated all the time and mad about the things. If this is
| the case, lots of therapy and medicine. Takes a long time, but
| the medicine is modern and very effective.
|
| Focus in feeling better with yourself and the rest will come.
| creatingreality wrote:
| Seems like you're taking an approach of - things are happening to
| me, instead of things are happening for me. This view closes off
| numerous possibilities and opportunities. It's a vicious cycle
| where you keep reinforcing your beliefs instead of looking at how
| you can do things differently. Try to take a alternate
| perspective on what is happening in your life. Ask yourself, this
| thing that is happening, what opportunities is it creating for
| me? Think about these things from a different perspective than
| you currently hold and keep challenging yourself to do so, even
| in "good times".
| necovek wrote:
| I don't have any idea why you think "a wife, kids" are out of the
| picture for you: after early adulthood, men and women are looking
| for someone they can see having a family with, and not for the
| more superfluous things in life (good looks, status or lots of
| money). At 43, having kids is harder for women, but usually not
| for men (well, at least making babies: bringing up kids does get
| a bit harder as you age regardless of the gender).
|
| In any case, getting a job in a place where you'd be happy should
| "restart" your life: job is also a means to a new social life
| where you make the break from the old. So it sounds like you are
| only a decent job away from starting on the right path.
|
| Having some vices also allows you to connect with others, so
| perhaps pick up a few non-damaging ones :D
|
| Finally, note that you should look for professional help instead
| of listening to any of the advice I might give, though finding a
| psychologist who you can connect to is sometimes an ordeal as
| well.
| gwd wrote:
| > At 43, having kids is harder for women, but usually not for
| men (well, at least making babies: bringing up kids does get a
| bit harder as you age regardless of the gender).
|
| And regardless, do consider adoption, even as a single parent.
| There are loads of kids taken away from parents who for
| whatever reason can't really care for them. Often there's a
| generational component: the kid's grandparent abused or
| couldn't support the parent; the parent ended up in foster
| care, exited out of the system at 18 with no support network,
| got pregnant, and can't really support the child. If they're
| not placed with an adoptive family, they spend the rest of
| their lives in foster care and repeat the cycle. You can make a
| world of difference.
|
| My first marriage took a long time to resolve itself; by the
| time I married again, and we figured out that we were having
| fertility problems, my wife was "over the cliff" fertility-
| wise. We adopted a little one and he's been a real joy. You are
| wired to connect with children, and children are wired to
| connect with you; those circuits in your brain can't read DNA.
|
| Obviously you need to get your own life sorted out first: lack
| of work and depression feeding into each other are major
| contributing factors to the problems the kids' biological
| parents have taking care of them. But get your head in the
| right space, a good support network around you, and a steady
| income, and there's no reason you can't be welcome a child into
| your family. Obviously having a partner can make the burden
| easier, but there were plenty of single-parent adopters in the
| "cohort" going through the adoption process with us. It's
| definitely do-able.
| a123b456c wrote:
| Be cautious with this. Lots of kids need adopting no doubt.
| But adoption can be extraordinarily difficult for parents. I
| speak from experience. It's not something to be taken
| lightly.
| enneff wrote:
| Raising children in general is not something to be taken
| lightly.
| rlawson wrote:
| I second this! Had two bios, they got grown (as happens).
| Wife and I missing kids and fostered a little 5 month old
| girl and after two years adopted. She's 5 now and wife/myself
| are early 50's and she is the center of our universe and so
| much fun. We all fall asleep around 8pm :)
|
| OP - You are young! Not even 1/2 way through life. You can do
| it.
| trentnix wrote:
| Thank you for sharing this anecdote. It brightened my day.
| God bless you and your wife, and your daughter!
| riku_iki wrote:
| Additionally, there are many single women with kids, which
| also will be happy to restore semi-normal family and find
| life long partner.
| blablabla123 wrote:
| That, I wanted to mention this myself. E.g. adopting kids
| that are already in school. That'll make their day and also
| considering today's divorce rates they'd probably be already
| studying should a divorce ever happen. I know families that
| adopted kids and everyone did really well (and did not
| divorce from what I heard anyway)
| Eisenstein wrote:
| > And regardless, do consider adoption, even as a single
| parent.
|
| I am struggling to think of any official agency which would
| pair a child with a single man. Is this really something that
| happens?
| gwd wrote:
| As I said, there was one man in my "cohort" -- the group of
| parents that went through the adoption training together.
| He was a tradesman -- single, self-employed, my guess in
| his early 40's; he passed the screening process and adopted
| a school-age boy. This is a "local authority" in the UK.
| I'm sure rules vary from place to place, depending on
| culture, experience, and need. I do know they look
| extensively at your support network, history, and so on;
| presumably the requirements for a support network are
| higher when you're going to be a single adoptive parent.
| oezi wrote:
| I agree that starting a family is very much still a possibility
| but also would suggest that it doesn't have part of a solution.
| Marriage and kids bring their own challenges and make any turn-
| around much harder.
|
| I think solving your personal issues and the job should come
| first.
| soheil wrote:
| Second that.
|
| I wish people would avoid _not rejecting_ "it's too late for
| kids at 43".
|
| The more implicit affirmation you hear on HN it strengthens
| that false belief.
| saiya-jin wrote:
| Second that age thing, 43 is not 'too old' for a man, past
| prime yes but definitely doable if your health is OK in that
| area. As a person who has 2 young kids (first when 39, second
| at 41) - in some regards I am much better parent than younger
| me, the only problem that probably got worse with age (for me)
| is patience. But parents are required to have endless amount of
| patience anyway and I've seen even otherwise stellar parents to
| lose it more than once when pushed enough. If you don't feel up
| to it anymore, look for single moms and give some proper good
| into the world, it desperately needs it now more than ever.
| Don't let (often ancient) social norms of your specific place
| rule your life, science is on your side.
|
| Tons of other good advices here - if you think you really are
| suicidal (and not just fleeting emotion in the lowest
| position), get professional help, even if it means moving away.
| You owe to yourself as much as to anybody else, including your
| closest family. Otherwise try to get a job you want and like,
| AND get into some sports, whatever it is. Being active brutally
| increases mood, happiness and often integrates you with like-
| minded people. On top of usual stuff like better sleep, sex,
| longer better life overall etc.
|
| Do some 'charity' work, helping unknown people with whatever,
| its extremely rewarding. Attempt in some way to overcome
| procrastination, attack it from different angles, ie set up
| appointments that you would feel ashamed to cancel later.
| yodsanklai wrote:
| > At 43, having kids is harder for women, but usually not for
| men
|
| Finding a partner becomes hard, especially if you expect her to
| be 5-10 years younger.
|
| I used to be rather successful with women, was never single,
| always could find someone easily. I'm 45, in good shape with a
| good job, but it has became _much_ harder.
| jfk13 wrote:
| If you'll excuse me saying -- and I may be totally misreading
| your comment -- it sounds like what you were looking for (and
| finding) so easily in the past wasn't really a _partner_ , at
| least in the life-long sense, but rather a string of casual
| relationships. That's not at all the same thing as wanting a
| wife and kids.
| yodsanklai wrote:
| Not really, I had many long term relationships, and shorter
| ones in between. I wasn't a super popular man, but
| attractive enough that I could always find partners with
| reasonable efforts.
|
| But in any case, I think it's not that different as wanting
| a wife and kids. You need to be able to seduce someone,
| whether it's for a casual relationship, or for marriage.
| It's start with physical attraction either way. I don't
| think mentioning "I want to get married and have kids" will
| give you a free pass which is ironic considering many women
| complain men only want casual relationships.
|
| Modern dating where people meet online makes it harder too.
| A gay friend of mine who is 60 years old says that back in
| the day, he would meet guys in saunas or bars, and older
| guy would have a chance. But online, nobody want to meet a
| 60 years old guy.
| docmars wrote:
| > I want to get married and have kids"
|
| I think this just comes off as moving too quickly. After
| a few weeks of successful dates and comfort levels built,
| I've found this to be acceptable to mention casually,
| especially in a conversation meant for discussing goals.
|
| It also softens things to say it like "Yea, someday I
| want to be married and have kids" but in a tone that
| doesn't include the woman you're dating yet.
|
| They already know you're dating them presumably for this
| goal if you mention it, but it also communicates you
| aren't desperate and already thinking this far ahead with
| this person (even though you probably already are).
| enneff wrote:
| How long term can they have been if you had "many" of
| them?
|
| There's a huge difference between seducing someone for a
| casual relationship and forging a deep friendship with
| the person who becomes your life partner.
| mancerayder wrote:
| > I used to be rather successful with women, was never
| single, always could find someone easily. I'm 45, in good
| shape with a good job, but it has became much harder.
|
| You're also most likely much more selective. In your 20's and
| 30's, there's no feeling of a clock ticking.
| scottLobster wrote:
| Yeah, as weird as it sounds, my wife and I are probably
| together now 14 years after we met because we had
| relatively low standards in our early 20s. Obviously you
| should have some baselines for fundamental character traits
| when considering a long-term partner, but we were both
| well-intentioned-but-half-developed at 21. If either one of
| us had been in a position to look down on our relatively
| lackluster lifestyles at that point, we probably wouldn't
| be happily married today.
|
| I guess my point is prioritize fundamental character
| (honesty, communication, loyalty, values, etc), and someone
| you can have fun with. The rest can be taken care of with
| time and effort.
| [deleted]
| ambicapter wrote:
| > rather successful with women, was never single, always
| could find someone easily
|
| The good news for GP is I think for a lot of people what you
| consider to be _much_ harder is just the norm.
| dbspin wrote:
| Totally agree with this. I have an older (late 50's) gay
| friend who considers himself 'over the hill'. He talks
| constantly about how hard it is to find someone etc.
| However, by comparison to myself and my other straight
| friends, it's trivially easy for him to find both sex and
| companionship. Essentially it was so easy when he was young
| and handsome, he learned an aversion to trying. It's not so
| much that he doesn't know how, it's that he feels he
| shouldn't have to. As an average looking straight guy, I
| find his entitlement absurd.
|
| Same goes for OP. I'm literally his age, don't own
| property, have less in savings (I don't work in tech), and
| consider myself both lucky and free. Also lucky not to live
| in the US, where other people's perceptions of your
| relative wealth seems much more important for dating /
| social life etc.
|
| Perspective governs so much of how meaningful and rich our
| lives seem. I look at my family / contemporaries who have
| children, or have crushed themselves at a desk for twenty
| years and feel inestimable gratitude I didn't sacrifice my
| life on that alter. OP's problem is a long period
| unemployment and depression, not some kind of nebulous
| 'failure'. Fortunately it's readily fixable. 43 is not
| remotely 'past it'.
| [deleted]
| hiram112 wrote:
| > Essentially it was so easy when he was young and
| handsome, he learned an aversion to trying
|
| I think a lot of women experience the same upon reaching
| middle age. In their 20s and early 30s, getting a date,
| sex, long-term relationship, etc. was as easy as firing
| up the app and letting a dozen men dance like monkeys for
| the chance to take her out.
|
| By late 30s, this dynamic is gone for most women, and
| even starts reversing itself where by 40's, many men -
| and not just the "alphas" or gay men who also had an easy
| time in their younger years - have a lot more power in
| the dating market, though mostly because they aren't so
| beholden to their hormones, and can make decisions based
| on what benefits a particular women and relationship
| brings to his life. In most cases, the negatives outweigh
| the positives, and thus women and gay men now get to
| experience the same odds that most men dealt with all
| their life.
| ako wrote:
| I recently started taking dancing lessons, bachata, surprised
| by the amount of single women looking for a dance partner...
| nsxwolf wrote:
| Also, men can circumvent fertility issues by dating younger. I
| know two 40+ men who started families with 20+ women, and so
| far so good.
| dweekly wrote:
| Starting a family with twenty spouses sounds like a lot of
| work, honestly.
| robertlagrant wrote:
| Well, that's why there were two of them.
| malfist wrote:
| Reminds me of chain marriages in The Moon is a Harsh
| Mistress
| bobjordan wrote:
| There's lots of good comments about mental health support, agree
| with those recommendations. But, I just want to mention, how very
| beneficial a program of physical exercise is for a man in their
| 40s. I'm 47, my experience is, I had let myself grow old
| prematurely due to lack of physical activity, from focusing on
| sitting at the computer a decade. My home life with my partner
| was awful, I had grown fat and lost my vigor, I was on the cusp
| of losing my partner and watching my family break apart. That
| would have definitely negatively impacted my business too. So,
| this year I started going to the gym, lost 30lbs, grew some
| muscle mass, changed myself physically which changed my mentality
| and now ultimately, I've pulled off a complete 180 in my life
| this year. I will also encourage you to have your testosterone
| levels checked and if they are at the lower end of the reference
| range, consider starting a TRT program. TRT + exercise for a man
| in their 40s is probably the closest thing that exists to a real
| fountain of youth.
| thesaintlives wrote:
| Dude! Get a grip. 43? You still have plenty of time to meet all
| your objectives. Women, family, career etc. You need a complete
| change of outlook. Spend some of that money and get psychological
| counselling. A positive outlook generates results, it is that
| simple. Get the mental tools to deal with life and build your
| house!
| abraae wrote:
| This advice is confrontational but somewhat true.
|
| At 47 you are at the half way mark in life. There's plenty of
| time left, but yes you need to get a move on.
|
| You are a great age to meet your future wife, who will still be
| young enough to have a baby.
|
| You have your health, which is the great enabler that you need
| to follow any of the other great advice from here.
|
| You have great job skills, you probably don't need to face up
| to working evening shift at Starbucks to make ends meet.
|
| Look on this as a puzzle with most of the pieces already
| solved. Just a couple more to go, and the board will become
| easier.
| jimhi wrote:
| I've been gathering a list of people who turned their life around
| at 35+, might be an inspiration -
| https://mrsteinberg.com/creatives-who-made-it-when-they-were...
| FranklinMaillot wrote:
| You could add Charles Bukowski to your list. He started writing
| full time when he was 49 years old and had his first literary
| success over 50.
| jimhi wrote:
| Quit the post office to be a full time writer at 49. Amazing.
| Added thanks.
| larve wrote:
| Managed to lift myself out of a suicidal hole that started when I
| was around 7-8. It started with quitting smoking and picking up
| exercise, which did seem to make a lot of the underlying
| substrate of hopelessness recede. Then came the pandemic, which
| allowed me to step back from human interaction and day to day
| noise enough to realize how much calmer my life could be. I
| picked up mountain biking which reconnected with my inner child
| to just go out and discover stuff, plus spending a significant
| amount of time in nature.
|
| This finally culminated in finding the autistic community on
| twitter, which put my entire life on its head, and finally shed a
| very different light on the difficulties I face, and where the
| constant suicidal thoughts were coming from. I know approach a
| lot of things through the lens of disability. There are a lot of
| things I just can't power through and learn and work on, and
| instead of trying even harder, approaching them by finding
| accomodations. This is an ongoing process, but it changed my life
| from never ending gloom to being very content. I have a lot of
| lucky circumstances that made this relatively smooth for me, and
| I have no idea if this is even true for me, but exercise and
| structuring my day felt like the catalyst, which set a healthy
| foundation for productive and positive introspection.
|
| Getting ADHD meds was a significant part of me keeping this
| approach up in a professional and relationship setting.
| rex-mundi wrote:
| Fellow ADHD austisic here. Who do you follow on Twitter that
| helped you?
|
| Also anything else that helped with either ADHD or autism, ADHD
| meds don't work for me so I'm struggling to find something that
| does
| larve wrote:
| I would say the #actuallyautistic hashtag in general (now on
| mastodon), and I really enjoyed the book "unmasking autism"
| by Devon Price and Neuroqueer Heresies by Nick Walker.
| badrabbit wrote:
| I am not in a position to give advice to anyone but:
|
| "The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best
| time:now" -- old Chinese proverb I believe.
|
| Hope, in my experience is the most powerful force to help you
| turn things around. But at the same time, few things are as cruel
| as hope when it is crushed. Ultimately the choice is yours on
| whether you consider hope as worth having.
| petesergeant wrote:
| > I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house,
| meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late
| for the first few.
|
| False.
| notjustanymike wrote:
| You're struggling with visualizing how to start your ideal life.
| Like any task, it feels monumental because you're at the bottom
| of a mountain looking up. So start at the top - imagine your
| perfect day.
|
| You identified a wife, job, maybe kids. You come home after a
| fulfilling day of work, have a nice dinner with the family, and
| feel a sense of content. Now rewind, and focus and focus on a
| single trail. What steps lead to this moment?
|
| You came from work; where do you work? What do you do there? When
| did you start? Why did you ace the interview? How did you get the
| interview? What made you feel ready to interview?
|
| Do this exercise for each facet of your life you care about, and
| work all the way back to the first achievable step. Then take
| that step.
| flybrand wrote:
| Identify people who have what you want, or match your view of
| success and spend time w them. Find a way to see if mentorship -
| formal or not - is possible.
| fbn79 wrote:
| Ray Kroc founded McDonald at 52. Not great achievements before
| that. When I'm in your mood I try to relax, more outdoor and
| social activities.
| m1m1ck wrote:
| There's no such thing as too old, and no such thing as too late,
| unless you stop trying. There are 3 billion people on the planet,
| and plenty of potential mates that are in the same exact
| situation as you.
|
| Getting a job is a good start and will help with both your self-
| confidence and your lady problems. Just like birds who choose a
| mate based on color, song, and nest building - humans also will
| look for a mate who is organized, responsible, well dressed, with
| good hygiene. So if you're not sure how to meet and talk to
| women, start with the basics: (Money) Get a job, (Nest) Get a
| place to stay, and keep your stuff organized and clean,
| (Song/social) join a music or art class or if you're not musical,
| try to spend time with people, either volunteering, or learning
| something, or join a local faith or traditional group. (Church
| group, excersize group, or crafting meetups), this adds some
| "spice" to your life even if you don't end up finding a mate.
|
| Start by trying to make friends first, don't try for romance too
| soon.
| personalityson wrote:
| Everyone goes through this. 10 more years of doom, and then it
| gets better
|
| https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/201207_...
| https://www.margithenderson.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/H...
| https://i.insider.com/573a14b891058428008c31fe?width=1136&fo...
| expralitemonk87 wrote:
| I turned my life around at age 52. I mostly fixed everything with
| Stoic philosophy (to give me a coherent framework to operate in),
| meditation (to calm my mind), and journaling. It took a lot of
| time and energy and introspection.
|
| There's no magic bullet: unless you're severely depressed,
| medication causes more problems than it solves.
| sethammons wrote:
| https://medium.com/mid-life-survival-guide/life-after-40-get...
|
| I can't find the story from the book The Hard Thing About Hard
| Things, but it was similar to some of the stories in that random
| article that google just fed me.
|
| Age is just a number.
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| A lot of these are examples of people that built up a career
| and finally had a (lucky) breakout. Doesn't sound like OP.
| fsloth wrote:
| Masters in US implies the OP has a past history of completing
| non-trivial projects. Built career is just a narrative that
| HR and investors like. Humans can learn quite fast lots of
| useful things. This is not a statement "everyone can become
| world champion" but rather, you don't need to become world
| champion to find contentment and happiness in life. Growth
| mentality is the key.
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| OK but that was a decade ago, it means he could do it at
| one point.
| fsloth wrote:
| This sounds like glass half-empty type of view. While
| pessimists never get disappointed, it also skews ones
| perception of the world so that one does not see the
| inherent opportunities, nor does one act to embrace those
| opportunities. It's much better to ask "what is the best
| version of events" that could come out of this and try to
| act so that happens (even thought that will then lead to
| disappointments)
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| There is fake it till you make it (which is what you are
| suggesting) and ignoring reality.
| the__prestige wrote:
| [From ChatGPT] I'm sorry to hear about the difficult
| circumstances you've been facing. It's understandable that you
| would feel overwhelmed and unsure of where to begin in trying to
| make positive changes in your life. It's important to remember
| that it's never too late to make positive changes and to work
| towards a life that brings you fulfillment and happiness.
|
| One thing that might be helpful is to try breaking down your
| goals into smaller, more manageable steps. This can make it feel
| less overwhelming and make it easier to see progress. For
| example, if you would like to return to the US, you might start
| by researching what steps you would need to take in order to do
| so. This might include finding out about any visa or immigration
| requirements, looking into job prospects or educational
| opportunities, or networking with people who may be able to offer
| guidance or support.
|
| It might also be helpful to seek out support from others, whether
| through therapy, joining a support group, or simply talking to
| friends or family members who can offer a listening ear. It can
| be very helpful to have someone to talk to and to share your
| struggles and goals with.
|
| Finally, try to be kind to yourself and remember that change
| takes time. It's okay to take things one day at a time and to
| celebrate small victories along the way.
|
| I hope these suggestions are helpful, and please don't hesitate
| to reach out if you have any other questions or if there's
| anything else I can do to support you.
| generalunited wrote:
| Wow. What did you use as the prompt?
| the__prestige wrote:
| Just the OP's post
| [deleted]
| pravint wrote:
| 43 is young.. on professional side, you can learn new skills /
| brush up existing skills if they are still relevant (if you are
| in tech).. you can move to new city / country where there might
| be more job opportunities.. also change of place will bring fresh
| perspectives.
|
| On personal side, you need therapist to talk to.. if that's not
| possible, friend with whom you can share your heart would be
| good..
|
| Also if you can, consider reading
| https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/ to get fresh perspectives on
| life and its struggles..
|
| On health side, regular exercise, any kind of sports and staying
| away from alcohol or any intoxication would be helpful to make
| you feel better. Try to go to sleep early and wake up early.. do
| bit of yoga & morning walk might help you tremendously..
| LastTrain wrote:
| 43 isn't that old. Had my last kid when I was 41 and that was by
| design. The fact that you have and MS and savings means you are,
| by those kinds of measures, better off than most of the
| population. Don't feel rushed - that will make you feel out of
| control. Realize that you have time to make decisions about what
| to do next, and prove it to yourself by stepping back and taking
| that time. Good luck.
| tgtweak wrote:
| 43 is not really "late in life". I think if you can get your
| situation evaluated professionally from a physical (blood
| tests/levels, physical conditioning assay, environment), mental
| (therapist/therapy) and financial perspective, you can begin to
| make progress on the goals.
|
| Take some real consolation that many MANY men in their 40's that
| got married and did the family life in their 20's are separated
| or getting separated. Compared to that level of social debt - you
| are still in a very reasonable spot to make moves.
|
| It is very easy to boil it all down to "just get moving", and I
| understand since it's so far down the journey to turning things
| around that it's easy to dismiss as well-wishing, but that is
| really the only way to effect change. Get uncomfortable with your
| status quo and stay uncomfortable.
|
| Finding success in your 40's is not as easy as it is in your
| 20's, but you have no material reason not to find it.
| soperj wrote:
| My boss got married and had 2 kids at 49/50 years old. It's
| really not too late for anything.
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| Even if you lack the skills to get a white-collar, professional
| job, what's stopping you from working as a labourer in a factory,
| farm or supermarket?
|
| It doesn't seem like you really need that professional salary so
| much as you need _something_, and the difference from a mental
| health perspective between having a low-status job and none at
| all is immense.
|
| Especially given the labour shortage at the moment, what's
| stopping you from turning your complete hellscape of a life into
| a mere moderate disappointment?
| ryanchoi51 wrote:
| I just wanted to say that 43 is very young and it's not too late
| to have the best times of your are life. What are some things you
| find enjoyment from these days?
| allie1 wrote:
| Pick a skill you would enjoy learning about, and start learning
| about it.
|
| Start picking up odd jobs on upwork to practice it. Even dead
| simple ones will help you start practicing the craft and feel
| useful. Keep doing it and it will improve.
|
| You could learn building Wordpress websites and start helping
| with issues around that. All you need is time and Google to
| figure out pretty much anything.
|
| Once you start helping other people, even if for free, your
| feelings about yourself will change.
|
| And yes, I know people who have moved into tech (digital
| marketing/advertising) in their 50s and made it work very, very
| well for them, with no prior tech knowledge. So it is possible,
| takes a lot of work, and it can deliver not just a decent life,
| but an amazing life.
| dwt204 wrote:
| Please seek therapy as soon as you can. This is not the right
| place for you my Brother. Good luck and don't give up.
| radu_floricica wrote:
| > I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house,
| meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late
| for the first few. Every night I promise myself to do/be better
| tomorrow and somehow get myself to sleep. I was once looked up
| to, now I'm a pity case and an example case of how not to throw
| one's life away.
|
| This is one of the few advantages of men in dating: it's not over
| until the fat lady sings. It takes you anything from 3-12 months
| to get back in proper dating shape, pretty much from any starting
| point. 43 is a _great_ age, once you fix that.
|
| I'm going out on a limb and say you're not a big athlete. In this
| case, there is no such thing as overtraining. You get a free pass
| of around 6 months in which you need protein, sleep and water,
| and after that the sky's the limit: you can go to the gym twice a
| day and do both cardio and weightlifting in both sessions.
| daveaiello wrote:
| Hey I am older than you. I just want to suggest that it's
| probably not a great idea to look at turning around your life as
| if it's binary.
|
| What I would personally be looking for, if I were you, is an
| aspect of my life that I can turn around relatively easily, and
| then a second one, which might be a little more challenging.
|
| Try to develop a little momentum in the direction that you want
| to go in life.
|
| From there, I would keep breaking down the things that would
| represent a complete turn around for me, and try to achieve those
| things one at a time.
|
| We all get on losing streaks in life. We all have technologies
| that we work with that go from hot, to good, to old, to
| unpopular. But I argue that we can't look at ourselves as a
| failure or success in a binary fashion.
|
| We have to keep reinventing and course correcting, one step at a
| time.
|
| Good luck!
| kodah wrote:
| First, I'd find someone to walk through the valleys you're in
| with you. Conventional talk therapy is good for that. If you're
| wanting to change habits in your life then find a therapist who
| can also do CBT. My only advice around CBT is that you really
| need to invest yourself in it. The system really only works if
| you take the time to recognize daily, incremental progress and
| you're on top of it.
|
| As far as your love life goes I simply disagree that you're past
| your "prime". People tend to say this when they're not looking at
| themselves in the best light anymore. There are plenty of women
| in their 40s looking to date and I'd bet there's some thinking
| about things like adoption. That's to say, I think there's more
| paths to what you want than you may currently realize. See my
| first paragraph on that.
|
| Last, I did a career reboot years ago. It's possible with a lot
| of studying and diligence. Again, you'll need a good system for
| recognizing incremental progress and appreciating your ascent. It
| is frustrating at times; the only thing I can say looking back on
| my own path is be patient with yourself. Life is quite an
| adventure and I wish I'd learned to appreciate the moments in
| which my life deviated so far from the standard experience - even
| the times that I thought were bad. They're the thing I share with
| others when they need perspective.
|
| You got this my guy, but don't go at it alone. That's how you
| land in suicidal ideation.
| mromanuk wrote:
| Regarding kids, wife and family, you are not late at all. A
| friend of mine had recently his first kid at 48, he is very
| happy.
|
| If you need a framework for working with psychological issues, I
| recommend ACT (my wife is a psychology therapist and an expert in
| that field). It's possible that your current lifestyle or
| situation is not aligned with your values, so you may need to
| make some changes to better fulfill what is important to you.
| Changing can be difficult, but in Western society, we often try
| to avoid discomfort instead of embracing it. However, it's often
| necessary to embrace discomfort in order to thrive.
| blueyes wrote:
| Second plug here for ACT
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Get-Your-Mind-Into-Life/dp/1572244259
|
| It's a strong combo of CBT and Buddhist meditation concepts.
| voisin wrote:
| > I know the best of my life is behind me
|
| I don't think this is accurate. What's the basis for this?
|
| Check out the book Midlife: A Philosophical Guide.
| xorcist wrote:
| I don't want to comment on the other stuff, but 43 years old is
| not even half way of most professional careers. You may not be
| the youngest in a room but you're certainly not old.
|
| Lots of people change their careers, go through a divorce, change
| continents, or go through other objectively tough experiences
| around this time in life. It's certainly not too late to build a
| family should you find someone.
|
| The mid-life crisis is cliche for a reason.
|
| Some people find help in therapy, but many manage without. If you
| have a tendency to procrastinate, maybe start with applying for a
| job that you won't get. I find that to be a reasonably effective
| method to get started with pretty much anything. With the ice
| broken, the next gets easier.
| rasengan0 wrote:
| Do not overlook serendipity (the occurrence and development of
| events by chance in a happy or beneficial way.)
|
| My entire life 20 years ago was changed by a dance class to get
| more social activity absent from a breakup. Therapy, spiritual
| counsel, exercise, diet, rest, nature, purpose, social network,
| death of loved ones, illness, blah, blah blah all may have had
| their place, but it was only circumstance that I truly believe
| that mattered looking back 50 years on.
|
| Life is precious and easy to take for granted. And yet there is
| every opportunity to find meaning. Perhaps that is the way it
| works, take time for yourself, be open to what comes: all the
| suffering and joy that is here.
|
| Peace be with you
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| Honestly, none of the things you want - a wife, a kid, house,
| meaningful work - are behind you.
|
| The first thing you need to tackle is meaningful work. That will
| get you a house, and make you an attractive candidate for a wife.
|
| Remember: you don't have to be right all the time. You really
| just have to be right ONCE. One right job. One right person. One
| successful idea. And this can happen at 25 just as well as it can
| happen at 45.
| joemazerino wrote:
| It is never too late. Tomorrow could be the day you turn your
| life around. Small daily steps.
|
| Good luck.
| codemonkeysh wrote:
| First, seek professional help even if it's remote. Suicide is
| never a good answer. In fact, it would just hurt those you love
| about deeply.
|
| Second, the best of your life isn't behind you because you're 43.
| I say this with 100% certainty because I'm your age. Remember,
| the meaning of life, the universe, and everything is 42 and that
| was just last year. That's right baby, nerd joke!
|
| Immutability is great for programming, but not as life advice.
| You can change, the biggest challenge starts with changing your
| mindset. I know that's hard and requires a) consistent
| affirmation in know your worth and ability. b) it takes time, but
| fighting and pushing for growth is the meaning of life. c) You're
| the same person you were as a youth, but you're lying to yourself
| about self-worth.
|
| It's not that you don't want to live, it's that you don't want to
| continue with your behavior and mindset; but you're uncertain of
| how to start the cycle of change.
|
| Here's what I do daily.
|
| 1. Wake up - get washed, vitamins, eat plant based, kefir, scrub
| my balls until they shine. 2. Work - On my own projects, work for
| my client, etc 3. Go for a walk - I don't care if it's colder
| outside than my ex-girlfriend. I go out! 4. Talk to people -
| Socialize and talk to people. Do it without fear - I will
| anything to anyone in a light hearted and joyful way. 5.
| Affirmations - each day I tell myself about the good I've done in
| life and how things changed.
|
| I can tell you for certainty that life was not kind to me, but I
| refuse to let life win. If you want someone to talk to, someone
| who has felt the way you have, who went from doing well to giving
| it all up, to regaining it, to feeling like giving up physically,
| etc.. let me know.
|
| You have a moment in your life to turn this all around and show
| your family, friends, and yourself how you're a bad motherfucker
| you are. I love the struggle and I turned it into a game.
|
| Honestly, seek professional help and if you like - we can talk.
| I'm very transparent about my life with everyone. P.S., Money
| doesn't change these feelings. I know that sounds like bullshit,
| but it's true from my experience.
| da39a3ee wrote:
| Your writing (in a second language I assume) shows that you are
| mature, intelligent, emotionally sophisticated and sympathetic.
| This is going to be highly appreciated by employers when you go
| back to work! Can you pick an area that's somewhat related to
| your MEng or BI areas and just do whatever job in a decent
| company for a while, make yourself known as a capable and
| intelligent person, in order to be in a position to look out for
| a more appropriate opportunity?
|
| I quite like the suggestion that someone else had in this thread
| of traveling for a little bit. Take a trip somewhere crazy before
| you go back to work, a less developed country you've never been
| to before. And yes probably try moving to a new city for the new
| job. I think this is going to be fine; take a deep breath and
| remember it will happen slowly, but all the time remember that
| it's not easy for employers to find thoughtful people like you,
| especially if you can combine that with some technical skills in
| an area of your choosing.
|
| A new romantic relationship and even family is obviously still
| possible! I'm sure you know that. Make sure people see the
| thoughtful, positive, mature, and intelligent side of yourself.
| ar_lan wrote:
| If I recall correctly, Paula Deen didn't really start in the
| culinary world until she was in her mid-40s. I'm sure she had
| some kind of experience before, but at the time I believe for her
| it was a complete career shift.
|
| You can carry on doing something complpetely new and be a
| success, even starting in your 40s.
| mariodiana wrote:
| I basically didn't secure reliable, gainful employment until age
| 40. Prior to that I had, depending on how you count, two or three
| false starts at a career. But, I had become a hobbyist programmer
| in my early 30's. Briefly, in my late 30's I took a job as a
| software tester, but stayed only 9 months to give one last try at
| the career I was hoping for. When that didn't pan out and I
| finally had to rule it out, I returned to my software tester job.
| I was at the time a few months shy of my 41st birthday.
|
| I stayed there 6 years, doing a tiny bit of programming
| professionally, and continuing to learn about programming as a
| hobbyist. I think I was 46 or 47 when I got my first programming
| job. I'm on my third now, and I'm 55.
|
| I have been bitter, angry, and disillusioned--just like you. The
| only thing that helps is committing to something that will move
| you forward. Best of luck to you!
| cmilton wrote:
| Your life is only going to be what you make of it. I believe in
| you.
| nonethewiser wrote:
| The wife and baby ship hasn't sailed. You can marry someone
| younger than you. Focus on getting your house in order first. You
| can have a fulfilling life.
| theredfury wrote:
| A lot of people have mentioned therapy. Definitely second that.
| One area that I haven't seen emphasized enough is exercise (maybe
| I haven't read enough of the comments). Exercise has helped me so
| much with regards to depression and anxiety. And don't pay
| attention to 1-hour high intensity classes or any other
| aggressive workout programs, just start small. 5-10 minutes a day
| and work up. I promise, it might be uncomfortable if you don't
| already exercise in some capacity, but getting in shape
| physically will help make you feel better mentally.
|
| Lastly, I don't have great sources to link, but I've heard
| numerous people talk about their 40s being fantastic. I hope
| yours are too, at some point.
| [deleted]
| Joel_Mckay wrote:
| "With every passing day, I am becoming more bitter, angry and
| disillusioned. I don't want to live like this anymore,"
|
| Sounds like you are ready to talk with a therapist, and should
| watch less media (stress induced cortisol levels are worse than
| smoking for mortality). An introspective opportunity many folks
| often leave unexplored.
|
| Philosophically, one needs to escape the idea there is a perfect
| version of themselves in the future. Happiness is often finding a
| balance between a meaningful life, and a productive role.
|
| Due to the events in the past few years, people have been given
| insight into perspective questions much earlier in their careers
| than normal.
|
| The first step is often literally taking a brisk walk for 20
| minutes at the end of your day. Thus, partitioning the business
| day from home life in a healthy way. If you no longer travel
| much, a rescue dog can help get people outside more often too.
|
| Maybe a tour of the Starrett factory would be fun, as metrology
| is what separates us from the apes.
|
| Best of luck =)
| blinding-streak wrote:
| Set goals. Start with small ones. "Turning your life around" is a
| bold statement but not necessarily very actionable. Figure out
| exactly what it is that you want, make a list. Rank them in order
| of priority.
|
| Breaking things down into smaller pieces may help you get where
| you want to go. Good luck.
| Snackchez wrote:
| Hey bud! Similar boat; ~38 year olds, totally dead end job
| working in spec. ed. for the past 4 years, living on a dead end
| salary, in a dead end relationship. Barely can motivate myself to
| do anything with the kids in the classroom... man, I even wasted
| like, 9 years substitute teaching. been like this since 2009 when
| I graduated with my b.Ed. Totally messed up my undergrad in math.
| Can't focus, procrastinate, etc.
|
| When you wrote "Every night I promise myself to do/be better
| tomorrow and somehow get myself to sleep", I almost cried. Same
| here bud. I keep looking to therapy but somehow I've never pulled
| the trigger... I've tried it in the past, got on some meds, only
| ended up with a case of ED and just feeling numb. Meds have
| sucked a lot.
|
| Hopefully someone in the replies has some ideas. I like reading
| comments on HN. Always seems like people have insightful things
| to say even though I don't understand half the things being said.
|
| Anyway, I hope you find your solution. Sending you loving vibes
| as best I can.
| theuri wrote:
| 1. Exercise daily.
|
| 2. Then choose Tony Robbins or David Goggins, and go deep.
|
| I wrote an article, originally written for founders ==> but
| choosing one of these paths (whichever resonates most with you)
| will ABSOLUTELY transform your mindset, if you actually commit to
| it. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/should-i-start-startup-ask-
| on...
|
| 3. I also recommend a spiritual practice, if that calls to you at
| all. Most of all, sending you peaceful + warmth ==> hang in
| there, and you are not alone. Check out "The Untethered Soul" to
| start.
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