[HN Gopher] Argentina Wins the World Cup
___________________________________________________________________
Argentina Wins the World Cup
Author : wslh
Score : 279 points
Date : 2022-12-18 17:57 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| marcodiego wrote:
| As a Brazilian who watched in 1994 we get the title, lose it for
| France in 1998 and make it again in 2002... I saw Germany score
| 7x1 in Brazil in 2014... I can say this was the BEST final for a
| World Cup ever! Argentina totally deserved it and I was rooting
| for them despite all the rivalry between us.
|
| The plot twists we watched this time is just not common. It has
| been a long time since I watched such a good game and it will
| probably restore my feelings on watching football again. I think
| other Brazilians can say the same.
|
| Thank you all who made this possible.
|
| Disclaimer: I spent a few days in Argentina in 2011. That country
| and people have a special place in my heart. I learned to
| appreciate the sound of romance languages beyond Portuguese and
| took a respectful photo in Maradona's star. It is an emotional
| thing to see Messi make it in his last chance and Argentina get
| another title since 1986. Dieguito is no longer alone and I'm
| happy to see that in a way that is hard to explain.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| 1994 was my first World Cup and this really felt similar from
| what I remember. Except the stars put in their penalties
| AlchemistCamp wrote:
| Agreed! This is the most epic championship I've ever seen in
| any sport.
|
| I was watching with a French friend and cheering for them, but
| I've got to say Argentina earned it and it would have been a
| shame if Messi never got a cup.
|
| Mbappe's hat trick was also an epic display that the torch is
| being passed to the next generation. Tonight was just about
| everything you could ask for in a game.
| lubujackson wrote:
| Gotta give that one to the Patriots beating the Falcons with
| the (by far) biggest comeback in NFL Super Bowl history, all
| in the 4th quarter.
|
| It required about 8 minutes of nearly perfect play to keep
| their chances alive.
| antihero wrote:
| After the first half it was a phenomenal game. I was in a pub
| in Peckham and despite people not particularly rooting either
| way the atmosphere was insane.
|
| Also loved that everyone booed the Qatari blokes.
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| if you are referring to the TV....they actually booed
| infantino, the president of fifa.
|
| No one booed the qataris. In fact the boos ended once the
| king was announced.
|
| They love their king and deservedly so
| curiousgal wrote:
| > _everyone booed the Qatari blokes._
|
| I always find this hilarious, half of Canary Wharf is owned
| by Qataris lol
| carnitine wrote:
| How is it hilarious? I doubt the average English person is
| a massive fan of Canary Wharf and it's owners.
| curiousgal wrote:
| It's hilarious because it plays a part in the UK economy
| and generates tax pounds. So in way or another they are
| not so disconnected form the people they are booing.
| viciousvoxel wrote:
| I really don't understand your point or your sense of
| humor
| mardifoufs wrote:
| The amazing part is that even the second half looked like a
| complete bore until the _80th_ minute. I don 't think I've
| ever watched a match turn around not only in the score, but
| also in the pace and intensity so decisively and so late. I
| rooted for argentina but I'm so glad Mbappe almost single
| handedly made the final legendary by bringing France back
| from the brink.
| crdrost wrote:
| The second half was better than you think it was and will
| hold up under rewatching, I suspect.
|
| In the first half, Argentina dominated possession and kept
| France completely on defense and just pummeled them, a
| boxer just getting blasted in the corner holding gloves up
| for dear life, super lopsided.
|
| In the second half, from the very start, France was hungry
| for blood, it's just that the Argentinian defense was very
| strong as they had not yet really had to play much in the
| first half. It seemed boring because we were already
| thinking we saw this going 3-0, Messi sweeping up the Cup
| easily in the last game against a sick team stuck at their
| 75%. But if you are paying more attention, you will see
| France with the lead on possession, numerous back-and-forth
| pushes, lots of French pushes only to be stuck inside a
| "cup" of three Argentine defenders who shut it down... Then
| they start to get tired, leading to that first penalty
| ("let me just hug you in the box"), followed by the French
| sharks sensing the fatigue, blood in the water, a French
| feeding frenzy. It should hold up well I think
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Agreed. It was a genuine, high intensity game.
|
| No diving, no risk-averse passes for minutes, no BS. It was a
| proper world cup final.
| tim333 wrote:
| The first penalty looked a bit iffy diving wise https://www.t
| iktok.com/@mishary.19/video/7178520312630267137...
| azlyrics wrote:
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| Argentina were the best team by far 80 min.
|
| It just so happened that things went out of the script in the
| following 3 minutes, and then after we proceeded to watch quite
| possibly the best extra time played of all time, certainly in a
| final game.
|
| Best final? Possibly. But only because of the unexpected 2-2
| which looked impossible in the preceding 80mins. In fact, there
| was only 1 team that showed up for most of the first 90mins.
|
| Had the game not gone into extra time, this would just be
| another lopsided game with a deserved winner. This was not a
| trade of blows, Rocky style.
|
| That was left for extra time :)
| AlbertCory wrote:
| That's kind of silly. A match doesn't have to be trading
| blows like Rocky for the whole 90 minutes. Stuff happens. If
| you have a 2-0 lead, you have to protect it for the entire
| game.
|
| I get tired of things being proclaimed "the best ever"
| though. "It was really good" is plenty, unless you've watched
| every other one.
| rebelos wrote:
| Worth noting that France was deeply unlucky. Virus hit the team
| just before the final. Benzema and Pogba missing. And Deschamps
| made some questionable decisions in my view.
|
| And Mbappe still showed up and put in one of the most heroic
| performances I've ever seen in sports, basically carrying the
| entire team. Really looking forward to watching his career.
| agumonkey wrote:
| MBappe did carry his weight fully, despite his status, youth
| and the usual pressure of a WC final. It was a honourable
| defeat.
|
| Surely the team was decimated, such is life.
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Mbappe has such an insane future if he keeps it up. He
| could've won his 2nd worldcup and he's only 23 years old,
| and has already scored more goals than almost anyone in a
| WC, while almost entirely carrying his team. I'm glad
| France lost, because they have the potential to be
| completely dominant for another 10 years, and that's even
| without mbappe.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Mbappe scored 3 goals + a penalty in a world cup final.
|
| He is an amazing player with no equal at this moment.
| Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
| 1 goal and 3 penalties.
| The_Colonel wrote:
| MBappe scored the most goals in the WC final history (4),
| yet it wasn't enough.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| Benzema could have (should have) been a sub in the final -
| they even took Giroud out early! But in true French fashion
| they couldn't get over their drama.
|
| Still it let Mbappe shine and put on a legendary show
| underdeserver wrote:
| Also, that foul on Di Maria in the penalty box wasn't.
| belter wrote:
| Predicted by Supercomputer 52 days ago..zero comments...shame on
| you HN :-))
|
| "Supercomputer Predicts Argentina Wins 2022 World Cup" -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33356979
| grwthckrmstr wrote:
| We went in expecting nothing. But honestly despite whoever won
| this was the most exciting football World Cup final that my
| friends and I ever watched together. Loved the experience. What a
| match.
| jasonhansel wrote:
| Congratulations on all the hard work that made this possible!
|
| I mean the work of the quasi-enslaved migrant laborers who built
| the stadiums in 100-degree heat, of course. But I'm sure
| Argentina put in plenty of effort too.
| racl101 wrote:
| Go Messi!
| sergiotapia wrote:
| Messi goes home a warrior. What an incredible game!
| haykmartiros wrote:
| Absolutely legendary game.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| France were poor up until the 75th min then showed up. Argentina
| thought it was in the bag at 2-0 but then France did what France
| do. Messi was a passenger from the 2nd half on and was out of
| steam in ET. France blew it late in ET with two golden chances.
| Winning on penalties is a crap shoot so down to luck. Mbappe was
| really the star of this WC Final dragging France back from the
| brink and nearly getting them over the line. Messi didn't have a
| great game from HT.
| niffydroid wrote:
| As an England fan, I didn't think they were that good against
| us, England were the better side who just couldn't convert. The
| ref helped them a lot, their first goal came after they fouled
| an England player and they didn't even get the ball when doing
| so. Overall they don't actually look world cup winners playing
| us.
| lairv wrote:
| At least France has players able to score 2 penalties
| pritambaral wrote:
| Neither did Argentina against Saudi Arabia.
| rcarr wrote:
| > "Messi was a passenger from the 2nd half on and was out of
| steam in ET"
|
| He scored a bloody goal in ET!
| [deleted]
| phreack wrote:
| I am convinced everyone is watching a different game in every
| country at this point.
| ESMirro wrote:
| "Mbappe was really the star of this WC Final"
|
| This is the narrative, but it's far from reality. Mbappe was
| invisible for 80 minutes, his refusal to track back and defend
| in part the reason France were forced to sub off Giroud and
| move Mbappe into the centre.
|
| He scored two penalties, admittedly that requires nerves of
| steel but it's not particularly impressive given they've a high
| xG, and scored an excellent second goal.
|
| Typically players are judged on their quality throughout the
| entire game, not a moment of quality in an otherwise drab
| performance, but this seems to be the modern way - the
| highlights are more important.
|
| To that end Messi was involved in everything, created the
| second goal with an excellent through ball into space, scored
| twice, and set up numerous chances that Martinez was unable to
| finish. A far more impactful performance.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| The second penalty was a hand ball blocking Mbappes excellent
| looking strike so I'd only take half a point off of that
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| If we're gonna go that route then Emi deserves the hero title
| just for that save at 120+3'.. not just for how important it
| was, but how unlikely it was and what followed after.
| ESMirro wrote:
| It was a vital stop, and he absolutely deserved the golden
| glove over Lloris for it.
|
| I'm not sure I see how it counters my argument though - had
| Martinez let everything past him for the first 80 minutes
| (not that France actually had a shot during that time, but
| hypothetically) whilst an excellent Argentine attack kept
| it level, that save alone wouldn't cement greatness as the
| rest of his performance was subpar.
|
| This is essentially the crux of my argument regarding
| Mbappe, he was far too quiet for far too long and didn't
| play for the team often enough to deserve such plaudits.
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| Yes, you're right :) I'm still just star struck with how
| well he did the whole tournament, is all.
| ESMirro wrote:
| I see what you were trying to say now, yes he was
| excellent and will go down in Argentine history thanks to
| his heroics in both the Copa and World Cup wins.
| SSJPython wrote:
| Mbappe is like a combination of Ronaldo Nazario and Thierry
| Henry. He needs to stay injury-free, however. And at some point
| he will need to adapt his game to account for the eventual loss
| of pace that comes with age.
| dfadsf4 wrote:
| Mbappe is amazing, great, awesome player, hope he keep
| getting better and play again, this sport is like this, you
| can get back and win where you've once lost.
| switch007 wrote:
| If scoring a goal is "out of steam", what is full of steam for
| you? Hah
| frontman1988 wrote:
| That goal was from a rebound, not as impressive as Mbappe's
| second goal which also happened because Messi lost possession
| rather lazily. And seriously Messi was literally walking even
| when the Argentinians were attacking. It really felt Messi
| was out of steam. He lost possession a lot, couldn't convert
| atleast two opportunities even though he got into the D and
| shot at the center of the goal right where the keeper was
| standing in the final minutes in extra time. Messi is a
| legend, but today Mbappe outshone him.
| wslh wrote:
| It was not luck, it was Dibu [1] at the end. He is not lucky,
| he is an ace. Also Messi is 35 while Mbappe is 23.
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emiliano_Mart%C3%ADnez
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Penalties are always pot luck. Also, Mbappe has now score
| four times in two WC Finals. Not bad for a 23yo.
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| Partly luck sure, but Emi's gotten into his opponents heads
| quite well, if you've seen his other penalty shootouts (..
| so many this WC). The little "shoot the ball away" tactic
| did cause the unforced error from.. one of the French
| players, cba to look it up.
|
| > Mbappe has now score four times in two WC Finals. Not bad
| for a 23yo.
|
| Yeah absolutely, he's taking the record for sure. He
| carried the team on his back. Messi's been doing that for
| longer though.
| frontman1988 wrote:
| France were pathetic up to that point. I remember there were 0
| shots on target for like 3/4th of the game. That really
| shouldn't have happened in a world cup final.
| coffeebeqn wrote:
| Finally not having Benzema (and Pogba) caught up to them.
| Giroud was completely useless when they don't control the
| game
| wcerfgba wrote:
| _Men 's_ World Cup
| kaba0 wrote:
| It can be safely implied from context when one is orders of
| magnitude bigger than the other.
| sharikous wrote:
| The one with the most audience, I guess. By far.
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Is there any other world cup going on right now?
| gred wrote:
| Here in the U.S. this is also the main women's event.
|
| (The women's team will receive more money from the men's team
| as charity this year than they will earn in the next women's
| world cup, even if they win it.)
| rosnd wrote:
| There's no such thing as a men's World Cup, women are allowed
| to play too.
|
| You'll have a very hard time finding any women playing at this
| level though.
| dbbk wrote:
| That's wild, I didn't know this. Though worth noting there is
| also a dedicated Womens' World Cup next year.
| rosnd wrote:
| I think almost all sports that have separate women's
| competitions allow everyone to participate in "men's"
| competitions.
| wcerfgba wrote:
| Nope. Per Wikipedia:
|
| > The FIFA World Cup, often simply called the World Cup, is
| an international association football competition contested
| by the _senior men 's national teams_ of the members of the
| Federation Internationale de Football Association (FIFA), the
| sport's global governing body.
| turbonaut wrote:
| And from the relevant FIFA regulations: "For FIFA men's
| competitions, only men are eligible to play. For FIFA
| women's competitions, only men are eligible to play." https
| ://digitalhub.fifa.com/m/3950e57162ea513d/original/ihf3...
| shp0ngle wrote:
| What about a golden retriever?
| haunter wrote:
| maybelsyrup wrote:
| Why are you broadcasting his assassination coordinates
| pifm_guy wrote:
| Can't be banned from twitter twice.
| foruhar wrote:
| Bien Leo! Te lo merecias.
| longemen3000 wrote:
| grande messi!
| vagrantJin wrote:
| Yeah. Happy for messi the Goat.
|
| Game felt staged and considering the stakes...have a feeling it
| was fixed. But Im likelt wrong and I hope I am.
|
| Miracles happen in football - like Liecester City lifting the
| EPL, a moment etched in the history of the sport. Croatia and
| Morrocco are warriors, happy for them too.
| JumpinJack_Cash wrote:
| Check-mate
| didip wrote:
| Messi did it! The ultimate GOAT finally got it before retirement!
|
| I will remember this game for a long time. The dramatic twists
| and turns are so memorable.
| jrib wrote:
| Argentina dominated most of the game up until France scored. Was
| a very fun game to watch.
|
| I'm pretty sure Argentina's 3rd goal should have been revoked
| after a VAR review. Messi looks off-side for the second to last
| pass that starts the play. I assume VAR reviewed the ball on the
| goal line and the last pass but didn't look at the pass that
| started the play right before?
|
| I wish the reviews were televised. We get to see the referees
| making decisions, why not the VAR communication too?
| lee wrote:
| On the feed I was watching it showed that only attacker's hand
| was passed the line. Hands and feet are exempted for the
| offside rule.
| awb wrote:
| Hands are exempt, feet (and any body part you can score with)
| are not exempt from offsides.
| propogandist wrote:
| both Messi and Mbappe play for the same qatari owned team back in
| france, qatar is the biggest world cup winner here
| redbell wrote:
| I quit football a few years ago but I have to admit that this
| final game was exciting and full of "suspense" (I couldn't
| completely ignore it, I watched the extra time and penalties). I
| would like to cite a few facts..
|
| 1. Since the 2002 world cup in Japan/Korea, every time, if the
| winner is European , it got kicked out in the next tournament in
| the first round. 2002(France), 2010(Italy), 2014(Spain) and
| 2018(Germany). however, France broke the rule this time and
| almost won the title!
|
| 2. France had lost two finals in its history, both were in
| penalties (Today, and in 2006 against Italy).
|
| 3. Both Argentina and France have won the title two times so far.
| Argentina won the coveted trophy in 1978 and 1986 while France
| achieved glory in 1998 and 2018. So this final is: for whom the
| 3rd trophy goes? it turns out to be Argentina
|
| 4. France had the chance to join Italy (1934, 1938) and Brazil
| (1958,1962) to be the 3rd Team to win two World Cups
| successively, but failed.
| browningstreet wrote:
| I was in Berlin for the last World Cup. It was delightful to
| experience it like that.
|
| This time I tracked it and really enjoyed the whole thing. The
| finals was the only game I was able watch in full and it was
| everything I hoped it would be.
|
| Argentina's second goal was just the best.
| ubittibu wrote:
| *the MALE Football World Cup
| ramblerman wrote:
| Lol
|
| Given there is no female World Cup this year this is a little
| bit petty no? Im guessing you didn't know that though because
| you don't watch it.
| f1refly wrote:
| Isn't it the world cup where both genders are allowed but women
| don't make it into the teams because their bodies aren't as
| performant when brought to the limit? I don't think there's a
| rule disallowing women, is there?
| spaceman_2020 wrote:
| Harsh for France but Argentina deserved it
| albertopv wrote:
| I hate soccer word, americans must always be different and call
| 'football' a game you play with hands.
| Ekaros wrote:
| And they don't even use spherical ball.
| DiggyJohnson wrote:
| This is essentially flamebait. Different cultures use different
| words for lots of things. How is this discussion not tiresome
| and played out?
| albertopv wrote:
| Of course I'm downvoted, best not to criticise american way of
| life on HN.
| atonse wrote:
| This comment is like low quality empty calories. This is a fake
| debate largely from misunderstanding and misinformation (which
| a sibling comment has already provided historical context). Can
| we just move on and talk about the game/match?
| jogjayr wrote:
| It's not the fault of North American soccer fans that the
| international word for their game was already taken by another
| sport. What else are they supposed to do?
|
| American football (gridiron) has the same roots as association
| football and rugby. They didn't randomly or illogically decide
| to call it "football"[1] when American universities first
| started playing it in the 19th century. Over time they changed
| rules to put more emphasis on throwing and catching, and less
| on kicking.
|
| And Italy doesn't call it "football" either - they call it
| "calcio". What's your position on that?
|
| 1.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_American_football#F...
| evan_ wrote:
| Concussionball isn't as catchy
| implements wrote:
| "Soccer" comes from the original name of the game: "Association
| Football" - a game whose rules were set by the "Football
| Association" back in 1863.
|
| From WP: _Soccer was a term used by the upper class whereas the
| working and middle classes preferred the word "football"; as
| the upper class lost influence in British society from the
| 1960s on, "football" supplanted "soccer" as the most commonly
| used and accepted word._
| petepete wrote:
| Having watched every possible minute of every competition since
| France '98, I haven't seen any of this World Cup.
|
| It still boggles my mind that FIFA weren't forced to overturn the
| decision when they were uncovered as the most corrupt
| organisation to ever have existed.
| thom wrote:
| As someone who works in football statistics, it will be sad when
| we have to move on to a more rigorous form of model evaluation
| than "is Messi at the top?"
| wslh wrote:
| Yes, Lionel Messi is impossible:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34038357
|
| Now, Maradona is indisputably not alone.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Maradona has no close second from his country.
| SSJPython wrote:
| It's hard to have a second when Maradona himself is second.
| Statistically, Messi is better. Trophy-wise, Messi is better.
| The only area where they come close is style of play since
| they are both dribbling playmaking forwards.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Interesting mind-centric game. Up until the penalties, where the
| Argentinian goal keeper managed to get ahead psychologically it
| seems.
| SSJPython wrote:
| The debate should be settled now. In terms of trophies, Messi is
| the GOAT. In terms of statistics (goals, assists, dribbles),
| Messi is the GOAT. In terms of style of play, Messi is the GOAT.
| Pele, Maradona, and Cristiano are not on his level.
| paganel wrote:
| I'm really glad that Messi got to win his World Cup but you
| can't really compare players from very, very different eras. I
| grew up in the '80s and '90s under Diego's spell, and for that
| I would always see him as the greatest player ever, no matter
| what will happen next, but Maradona was playing a different
| game than what was played during Pele's time, and Messi is
| playing a different game compared to what used to be played in
| the '80s and '90s.
|
| But, yeah, in the great scheme of things this would be the
| magic trio for me: Pele, Maradona, Messi, in chronological
| order, that is.
| ardit33 wrote:
| lol what. Pele is 3 times WC winner my dude. Messi is great,
| but not yet at Pele's level.
| SSJPython wrote:
| Pele is amazing. But he did not play in Europe where the
| competition was more fierce. And he was also a goal-scoring
| forward primarily. Messi is both one of the greatest
| goalscorers and one of the greatest playmakers.
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| LOL.
|
| At the time Europe, particularly UK, was the backwater for
| soccer.
|
| Teams (and players) went to play in Uruguay exhibition
| matches, because that's what the best players did.
|
| EU didn't rise as a competitive market until the late 80s.
|
| Before that, certainly around the time of Pele, Penarol,
| Santos and some other south american teams ran around in
| CIRCLES against any european team. Look at who won the
| world cups! France did not even register. UK was nothing
| except on home soil. Spain was a backwater league. Italy
| was just emerging. Germany was the only country that could
| actually compete.
|
| Only the Hungarians were worthy of calling themselves
| competition....
| fosk wrote:
| Fun fact: Silvio Berlusconi, who has been the
| controversial prime minister for Italy many times, sort
| of revolutionized football in Europe in the 80s when he
| acquired AC Milan and started spending like no tomorrow
| in an unprecedented way for the best international
| players money could buy. It's not that before players
| weren't worth a lot, Silvio Berlusconi added an order of
| magnitude or two to that. He also created the first
| "soccer team as a brand" movement. That trend - started
| in the 80s - continues to this day.
|
| More here: https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ac-milan-
| silvio-berlusc...
| rafaelero wrote:
| > But he did not play in Europe where the competition was
| more fierce
|
| Looks like he didn't have to since he still won 3 world
| cups.
| fernandotakai wrote:
| another datapoint regarding pele:
|
| >After changing the rules in 1995, France Football did an
| extensive analysis in 2015 of the players who would have
| won the award if it was open for them since 1956--the
| year the Ballon d'Or award started. Their study revealed
| that Pele would have received the award a record seven
| times (Ballon d'or: Le nouveau palmares). The original
| recipients, however, remain unchanged.
|
| from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pel%C3%A9#Accolades
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Very different times honestly. And being a GOAT, in this
| context, isn't specific to the world cup. Winning a world
| cup basically seals the deal, but it's about a lot more
| than just that.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| Mbappe is.
| usaphp wrote:
| he was invisible for 90% of the game, aside from the second
| goal, he hasn't done much, both penalties were terrible
| mistakes by Argentina defense.
| nishs wrote:
| This is a poorly informed comment.
|
| The same commenter also calls both Messi and Maradona dribbling
| playmaking forwards.
|
| Some of their other comments when talking about Messi say, "If
| you come at the King, you best not miss."
| jogjayr wrote:
| "World Soccer Championship"? Are we in some football simulator
| game that doesn't have a license to use the real name of the
| competition?
|
| It is colloquially called the Football (or Soccer) World Cup. The
| official name is the FIFA World Cup.
|
| I was rooting for France, but congrats to Argentina and Messi.
|
| Edit: Thank you to whoever changed the title.
| switch007 wrote:
| Almost as embarrassing as someone localising someone else's
| name eg Juan to John
| sprkwd wrote:
| John Mastodon?
| highwaylights wrote:
| Argentina Wins also would have been fine. The whole world knows
| what's happening today.
| ksec wrote:
| >The whole world knows what's happening today.
|
| Not entirely sure if that is true in North America, both
| Canada and USA.
| parasubvert wrote:
| It's everywhere in the USA (coasts, anyway) and Canada.
| Flags on cars, matches on TV, etc. Both countries being in
| the tournament helps.
| grogenaut wrote:
| Barely noticed in Seattle. If it wasn't for coworkers and
| the internet I would have missed it completely.
| jen729w wrote:
| "If it wasn't for hearing about it, I wouldn't have heard
| about it." ;-)
| pestatije wrote:
| I wouldn't have known I didn't hear about it
| mardifoufs wrote:
| It certainly is true in Montreal. There is a huge french
| diaspora here, but immigrants in general have been closely
| following the WC. That has also been making soccer a lot
| more popular amongst non immigrants, and I see a lot more
| quebecers following the world cup than even 4 years ago.
| It's just such a ridiculously catchy event, even for a lot
| of those who usually don't like soccer in general.
| geraldwhen wrote:
| I don't know anyone who follows soccer.
| koolba wrote:
| And half the world knows why people are getting in to the
| office late tomorrow.
| wslh wrote:
| Title changed.
| Simon_O_Rourke wrote:
| Argentina wins, but I'm not sure if the guys hosting it (spit)
| have accrued any goodwill after all the deaths and abuses they
| inflicted on poor migrants to get their way.
|
| And news just in, they tried to buy off the VP of the European
| Union last week too.
| bojan wrote:
| > VP of the European Union
|
| There is no such thing. The corrupted person was a VP of the
| European Parliament, one of the 3 governing bodies of the EU.
| kitd wrote:
| Wow, greatest ever final! Congrats Argentina and Messi.
|
| Tough for France and Mbappe. Dead and buried at 80 minutes then
| took it all the way to penalties.
| amelius wrote:
| > Wow, greatest ever final!
|
| Meh, a penalty series spoils the nature of the game.
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| After 2hrs of unhealthy heart rate that penalty shootout was
| cathartic. I might be biased by Argentina winning though..
| smcl wrote:
| Me and some friends doubted whether Messi had it in him to
| last the full 120, but he lasted. Good on them, a fantastic
| victory and an exciting game :)
| geerlingguy wrote:
| He was definitely standing and walking a little more in
| those overtimes.
| sys_64738 wrote:
| On the contrary, it amps up the intensity to the zenith.
| Penalty shootouts are brilliant entertainment and a great way
| to finish the game if tied after Extra Time.
| listenallyall wrote:
| You already had 3 of the 6 regular goals come from penalty
| kicks, and Messi/Mbappe get to kick them regardless of
| whether they were the fouled player. Absolutely seems that
| PKs are the dominant path to victory, I have to imagine the
| sports analytics community starting to focus on best
| strategies to maximize PKs rather than traditional goal-
| scoring.
| myroon5 wrote:
| This game was exceptional. Most games don't have any
| penalties.
|
| "In Europe's top five leagues, 10.41% of the goals were
| scored from penalties"
|
| https://www.driblab.com/driblab-en/how-significant-are-
| penal...
| random42_ wrote:
| If you follow soccer you will know that diving in the box
| trying to get a PK is a thing since... I don't know, PKs
| were added to the rule? Seriously though, I've seen my
| share of games where a player had a good chance of
| scoring but decide to dive and try to get a PK instead.
| These days, with VAR, it might not work as well as it did
| before.
| perfectstorm wrote:
| but after 120mins of play, somehow they have to make a
| decision.
| amelius wrote:
| A better approach I've heard someone coin is: after 90
| minutes, you start taking away one player from both teams,
| every 5 minutes.
| Cyph0n wrote:
| But they already do just that: you have a finite number
| of players, a finite number of subs, and each player has
| a finite amount of stamina.
| kgwgk wrote:
| They could add an additional ball instead - every 5
| minutes. Would be much funnier to watch.
| nothrowaways wrote:
| How do you decide that?
| tobltobs wrote:
| And if no more players are on the field and it is still a
| tie then what?
| duxup wrote:
| The odds of someone getting an open shot seems like it
| would make a goal all but inevitable.
| michelb wrote:
| Both coaches duel with pistols.
| amelius wrote:
| Use your imagination. Anyway, by that time, the number of
| red cards will probably have decided the outcome.
| smcl wrote:
| I think that's a pretty bad idea - the objective is for a
| _team_ to win, having to tear apart your team every five
| minutes would be a very complex and niche tactical meta
| to master and will result in an incredibly slow paced
| game as lungs tire when teams get down to 7-8 players
| each. If teams are on even terms after 90 minutes, and
| cannot break the deadlock after 30 minutes of Extra Time
| then they 're as evenly matched as possible and therefore
| deserve a way to win that doesn't break them physically.
| Whether or not they can handle it _mentally_ is another
| matter [casts an eye towards England...]
|
| I can say that as a player I can stomach a loss on
| penalties, I wouldn't say that I _enjoy_ taking them but
| I could handle it. I would absolutely _detest_ the idea
| of playing Extra Time with my teammates disappearing
| every few minutes.
|
| Edit: hope it doesn't sound like I was having a go at you
| for raising this proposal! On the contrary, I find it
| interesting when people want to tweak the game in
| creative ways and talk about it!
| duxup wrote:
| I don't know if that means the better "team" wins, but if
| that's the point I think is up for debate too...
|
| Having said that in the US college hockey they do a 3 on
| 3 overtime. In contrast to a typical 5 v 5 game it is
| INTENSE. Crowd is on the edge of their seat and so on.
| Suddenly it's like some back yard / local ice rink where
| kids just get together to play style game.
|
| It's still the same game as far as the players go, but
| just more space and a great pass or move to shake a
| defender / goal keeper is huge.
|
| I don't know if that's the best route to go, but it
| really is exciting and I prefer it to shootouts by far.
| amelius wrote:
| Interesting!
|
| > I don't know if that means the better "team" wins, but
| if that's the point I think is up for debate too...
|
| Of course you should keep in mind that if you want the
| better team to win with a p-value of e.g. < 0.001, then
| you will have to play hundreds of games ...
| duxup wrote:
| Yeah more so in such a low scoring sport I imagine where
| rando outcomes are possible?
|
| It's a constant discussion I have where folks talk about
| a playoff is there to determine the best team but ...
| that's not really how it works. Having said that, I'd
| rather not see an endless "regular season" where we just
| tally up stats and everyone just goes home after playing
| a ho hum game and happy that they're statistical champs
| ...
|
| I like playoffs, it produces those extraordinary moments
| of greatness that we seem to want in sports.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| This is the quintessential American take on soccer. It's
| ok if you're not a soccer fan. Soccer doesn't need to be
| like hockey or basketball, where teams can be dogshit for
| most of the season and still wind up as champions.
| huhtenberg wrote:
| Just flip a coin.
|
| Will give enough incentive to try and win, but also be fair
| to both if there's a tie.
| webkike wrote:
| Oh yeah, that would have been SO much better and less
| controversial than a shootout. What a great way to end
| 120 minutes of people pouring their heart out. A coin
| flip
| huhtenberg wrote:
| But teams are on par - so either crown them both or
| choose randomly.
|
| Penalties is just a more elaborate form of a coin flip,
| still largely random.
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| People are not robots. Penalties do test the nerves of
| both teams. And besides, the feeling of fairness is more
| important than actual fairness in football. We don't
| watch it to get a perfectly stat driven understanding of
| the game, but because it's fun and emotional.
| webkike wrote:
| It is random, it's definitely not as random as a coin
| flip
| jogjayr wrote:
| If penalties were truly random then teams wouldn't
| practice them. Goalkeepers wouldn't study their
| opponents' past penalties or use cheatsheets when facing
| kicks. There wouldn't be so much analysis and game theory
| poured into the perfect sequencing of kick-takers.
|
| It's true that penalties test fewer skills than a full-
| fledged game of football. But they are still a contest of
| skill, not a game of chance.
| mk89 wrote:
| Penalties are not random at all. There is a reason why
| some teams suck big time on penalties while others nail
| them all the time (or almost always, depending on the
| generation, players, etc).
| huhtenberg wrote:
| I meant "random" is a sense that it doesn't really
| reflect which _team_ is the best in the world. Penalties
| is a player-specific skill, but the football _is_ a team
| sport first and foremost and the world champion status
| should reflect _that_.
| [deleted]
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| They may as well have literally flipped a 70.3/29.7
| weighted coin 10 times.
|
| I walked out of the pub in disgust.
| diego_sandoval wrote:
| In reality, they end up being like 140 mins.
|
| (45+5)+(45+10)+(15+15+5)
| smcl wrote:
| Remember that additional 20 minutes is added because it's
| actually time they spent _not_ playing. So in reality
| they 're now playing a full 90 or 120 minutes after
| having in the past possibly played only 75 or 100.
| amadeuspagel wrote:
| instead, if it's a draw after 90 minutes, just played until
| someone scores a goal.
| dj_mc_merlin wrote:
| They tried that, look up Golden Goal. Most people agreed
| it was a bad idea.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| It's as if half of the people commenting here watched a
| soccer game for the first time today, lol. That's fine
| and all, but it's incredibly unlikely that a neophyte has
| all the solutions.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Felt a bit of schadenfreude seeing Mbappe sulk and being a sore
| loser, especially after what he said about South American
| teams.
|
| Mbappe and Giroud act too cocky, always have a face on like
| they're the stars of a show and the camera's on them, and a lot
| of the time don't feel like they're playing for the team or as
| a team.
|
| Argentina on the other hand acts as the sum of a machine's
| parts. And though Messi is a star, he doesn't act like it on
| the field, appears grateful for his team, and plays as a member
| of a team.
|
| Super happy Argentina won, happy to have seen the SK vs
| Portugal match, and happy to have seen Morocco's games. But
| also happy to see Mbappe sit and pout even after pulling off a
| hat-trick in the final game of the world cup lol
| rebelos wrote:
| Messi has by far one of the worst attitudes I've ever seen in
| a star player so I have no idea where this is coming from. He
| was petulant, nasty, and classless at various times
| throughout this very tournament.
| SSJPython wrote:
| You must've been watching from a different universe in the
| multiverse then. Messi was class in the tournament and only
| responded "nastily" to the Netherlands since they were
| playing dirty and running their mouths disrespectfully. If
| you come at the King, you best not miss.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| We watched two different tournaments then
| galactus wrote:
| I'm also happy for Argentina, but I didn't find Mbappe's
| words any offensive. It is true that european teams are
| generally stronger.
| dakiol wrote:
| You sure don't know Argentinians. The most arrogant people;
| even more when it comes to soccer. Just see their goalkeeper
| how he celebrates when he received the prize for being the
| best goalkeeper of the world cup. See what Messi said to
| Weghorst... pathetic.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Okay let's make wild generalizations about a whole
| population.
|
| I spoke of two players from the French team, not French
| people as a whole. If I were to say anything about the
| French team though, I'd say they deserve oscars for their
| fake injuries to kill the clock. Again, not speaking of
| French people or fans, just the team and in particular two
| players.
|
| Saw how Argentina's goalie celebrated and agree it was in
| poor taste, but that does not discredit the points made in
| my original post regarding their team functioning as a well
| oiled machine rather than separate components in an
| incomplete machine.
|
| What Messi said to Weghorst, hard to tell when there's one
| perspective given. What was reported as being said seems
| wildly unlikely to have sparked such a reaction. So, until
| more accounts from other sides are given to paint a duller
| picture, what was reported seems bias as hell
| cryptonector wrote:
| From what Messi said immediately after, he was rather
| upset at some Dutch behavior (I didn't watch the game so
| idk what it'd have been) and also at the referee
| -especially at the ref- and I guess he wasn't in a
| sporting mood. That's too bad because t-shirt exchanges
| are a nice touch :(
| throwaway743 wrote:
| Yeah idk after looking into it more after the response,
| it seems like others are suggesting it wasn't simply the
| request for his shirt, but the request following bad
| calls by refs and provocations from the Dutch team.
|
| Who knows what all went down, but definitely not as
| simple as he was being asked to exchange shirts. He had
| to of been either instigated prior by the other
| team/another player or fuming from bad calls
| cryptonector wrote:
| He doesn't do this every time. Clearly he was animated.
| tangus wrote:
| During the penalty shootout, where teams traditionally
| stay quietly on the center circle and keep to themselves,
| the Dutch team decided to intercept and harass the
| Argentine penalty takers going to the penalty stop. This
| kind of unsportmanship was never seen before (Dutch
| always innovating lol) and understandably the Argentines
| were quite peeved.
| wslh wrote:
| You sure don't know or you don't want to compare with other
| cultures. While you can talk about specific Argentinian
| subcultures that inherit a lot of traits from other places
| in the world you can also say that the racism and
| nationalism that is alive in other countries don't have a
| place in Argentina. For example, slavery was abolished
| around 1860.
|
| It is always great to take a look at the following paper:
| "Cultural Biases in Economic Exchange?" [1]
|
| [1]
| http://www.econ.yale.edu/~shiller/behmacro/2004-11/guiso-
| sap...
| prmph wrote:
| You do know the reason why there are few visible blacks
| in Argentina right?
|
| Hint: They were not repatriated back to Africa
| gus_massa wrote:
| It's strange because we had like 4 or 5 ways to see it, and each
| one has a different delay. So I can hears the goals like 30
| seconds before it's in mytv
| mellosouls wrote:
| World CUP
|
| Edit: thanks for the change
| dfadsf4 wrote:
| Great, great game, France was superb, we won the cup but both
| teams played very well. Just incredible.
| seydor wrote:
| What is it with americans and "our football" this year? :) Looks
| like the US is way more into football than i thought. Everyone
| seemed so taken with Messi. But the truth is the MVP of this
| final is Mbappe
| frontman1988 wrote:
| Mbappe hardly did anything in the first 80 minutes of the game
| though. But yeah he still outshone everybody else.
| [deleted]
| verdenti wrote:
| sys_64738 wrote:
| Totally agree. Mbappe was the MVP today for sure.
| jpgvm wrote:
| Truth be told if he was he MVP they would have won. Instead
| he contributed substantially to France being down 0-2 in the
| first place, a deficit if they were without they would have
| won handily. His defensive work rate was worse than Messi who
| is 12 years his senior and has one foot out the door to
| retirement already. This caused Giroud to be swapped out and
| Mbappe to be moved more centrally so they could make up for
| his unwillingness to track back. Arguably this was also why
| Di Maria was able to completely savage the left wing, forcing
| the penalty out of Dembele.
|
| He scored when he got the ball and that is great but he isn't
| yet the complete player that Messi is. Messi got the MVP
| today because he won the match for his team, through yes, a
| goal and a penalty but more importantly through drawing out
| space for Di Maria to generate the opportunities that created
| that initial lead.
| nicolapede wrote:
| It was a great final, exciting and fun to watch, at least towards
| the end. As a World Cup edition, though, I found it a
| disappointing one. It might be that the unusual season when it
| was played made physical skills more important than usual, not
| sure. It was difficult to find good, modern football though
| (beside maybe with Brazil, but they self sabotaged them in a few
| minutes folly). In general, it seemed that the whole world wanted
| Messi to win and we eventually had that.
|
| The fact that the two (possibly three) top players of the
| tournament played for the same club is something to ponder about
| I feel.
| coob wrote:
| This World Cup has seen some of the best football for decades.
| It helps that the players aren't knackered after a full season.
| [deleted]
| paraiuspau wrote:
| That was some brilliant footie!
| ankaAr wrote:
| As argentinian i'm very happy because the team was awesome, very
| nice people, very good players and excellent final match against
| the last wc champion.
|
| One thing that made me even happier is now i will be planning the
| 2026WC because at least 10 americans wants to go to see it.
| whoevercares wrote:
| Messi the GOAT!
| nedsma wrote:
| Definitely one of the best World Cup finals ever. Even 1/2 finals
| were too good. Argentina deserved their win, I missed di Maria
| when they replaced him, and when it was 2:2, he couldn't be there
| when he was needed the most. The Polish referee did amazing job
| as well, one must say.
| perfectstorm wrote:
| it was an incredible game. Argentina was cruising along nicely
| till 79mins and then the penalty happened and a minute later an
| equalizer. who would have thought that. followed by an engaging
| 30mins of overtime. wow. as a neutral, it was entertaining. Happy
| for Messi.
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