[HN Gopher] Geese return twice as quickly if you try to shoo the...
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Geese return twice as quickly if you try to shoo them away
Author : GavCo
Score : 80 points
Date : 2022-12-16 21:00 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newscientist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newscientist.com)
| yborg wrote:
| >The giant Canada goose subspecies was believed to be extinct in
| the 1950s until, in 1962, a small flock was discovered wintering
| in Rochester, Minnesota, by Harold Hanson of the Illinois Natural
| History Survey.
|
| No good deed ever goes unpunished.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Geese love Rochester
| https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/a-minnesota-towns-love...
| jmclnx wrote:
| Where I live, Canadian Geese were here all over the place,
| pooping everywhere. Then 2 year-round swans moved in, the geese
| disappeared and have not been back. Seems they hate each other.
| JimtheCoder wrote:
| Canadian Geese are notoriously insecure - everyone wants to
| take pictures of pretty swans, but no one wants to look at the
| crazy geese, standing in their own feces and hissing at each
| other. They can't handle the emotional trauma, so they leave...
|
| It's sad, really...
| frosted-flakes wrote:
| Canada geese, not Canadian.
| rqtwteye wrote:
| Swans are also mean. You don't want to mess with one.
| amelius wrote:
| Airports use lasers and pyrotechnics to get rid of them.
|
| https://www.birdcontrolgroup.com/chasing-away-the-geese-at-d...
| BuildTheRobots wrote:
| And mass culling. After AWE1549 landed on the Hudson river
| 70,000 birds were killed around New York to try and stop it
| happening again.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Who would ever guess that there would be a massive amount of
| birds near a river?
| ck2 wrote:
| Things I have learned in life that were not obvious include "do
| not mess with geese" (or crows).
|
| They are way smarter and more aggressive than you might ever
| imagine.
|
| There's a reason why they use geese as "watchdogs"
| 323 wrote:
| Maybe they should open a restaurant nearby. Source your food
| locally...
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| _Canada geese have a mild flavor that results in good eating;
| done properly, it resembles lean beef in texture._
| https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/geese/a-species-profile-on...
| DSingularity wrote:
| Is it legal to hunt them ?
| glitchc wrote:
| It is legal to kill pest animals in Canada. Prairie dogs
| are a good example. Unfortunately geese are a protected
| species due to a 1918 law, so no, any hunting or killing is
| a federal crime and subject to fines.
|
| Update: Hunting in designated areas is permitted if a
| license is obtained [1].
|
| [1] https://laws-
| lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2022-105...
| JimtheCoder wrote:
| Yes, during hunting season.
|
| But no, not in the park, by the playground, near the
| kids...
| orthoxerox wrote:
| The kids should know where the food on their tables comes
| from.
| vxNsr wrote:
| I fully agree with this. I've personally often thought
| about starting a summer camp that is basically just farm
| work for kids, have them raise chickens, goats, etc and
| at the end of the summer there's a big feast... but the
| kids also participate in the slaughter so there's no
| doubt in their mind where food comes from.
| knicholes wrote:
| You can call it Dahmer Factory.
| zoklet-enjoyer wrote:
| Please tell that to the city of Fargo
|
| https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inforum.com%2Fn
| ews...
|
| https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.inforum.com%2Fn
| ews...
| maxerickson wrote:
| There's at least some states with hunting seasons (didn't
| try to do a comprehensive check).
|
| In general, city parks are not open to hunting, so hunting
| wouldn't necessarily help much with the geese that occupy
| them.
|
| I say necessarily because I can imagine a scenario where
| some particular flock of geese that spends time in a park
| also spends time on land that is open to hunting. Possible,
| but probably not that common.
| eru wrote:
| > In general, city parks are not open to hunting, [...]
|
| What about trapping?
| i_am_proteus wrote:
| Yes- in accordance with state and local hunting laws.
| Typically this means only during a specified time between
| December and February, and almost certainly not in the
| vicinity of inhabited dwellings.
|
| Geese are smart, they figure out where they aren't hunted
| and congregate in these areas.
|
| In areas where hunting is feasible (shooting lines over
| hundreds of yards of water; goose loads lose their energy
| pretty quickly compared to rifle or pistol rounds), regular
| hunting will deter geese from the area. That said, even a
| suppressed 12ga will have loud (140 dB) reports that won't
| fly in urban areas.
|
| (If y'all couldn't tell, I hunt waterfowl)
| nmeofthestate wrote:
| This is why one normally uses a sword to hunt geese in a
| built-up area.
| joe8756438 wrote:
| There's also resident goose populations -- some states
| have seasons specifically for resident geese (dates when
| migratory birds are for the most part absent). Bag limits
| in those seasons are significantly higher. Unfortunately
| resident geese have vermin status around northeast US. Do
| you know if many hunters take advantage of resident geese
| seasons?
| [deleted]
| gumboza wrote:
| Geese are easily startled, but they'll soon be back, and in
| greater numbers.
| gpderetta wrote:
| Only the sand geese though.
| graderjs wrote:
| I asked ChatGPT if it could infer the reference alluded to in
| the above two comments, and this is what it said:
|
| _" It's possible that the reference in the second comment is
| to the phrase "the sands of time," which is often used as a
| metaphor for the passage of time or the impermanence of life.
| The phrase itself is thought to have originated in the
| ancient Greek myth of the Hourglass of Eros, in which the god
| Eros used an hourglass filled with sand to measure the time
| people had left to live. In this context, "sand geese" could
| be a playful reference to the passage of time, with the
| suggestion being that time moves on and that the geese, like
| sand, will eventually return. Alternatively, it's possible
| that the reference is simply to the fact that geese are often
| found in sandy environments, such as beaches or sand dunes."_
|
| cute
| MacsHeadroom wrote:
| For anyone unsure, it's a Star Wars reference (Sand
| People).
| louthy wrote:
| Only ChatGPT is unsure
| epgui wrote:
| Can confirm, these birds are the least polite Canadians I know.
| thesaintlives wrote:
| Great. You know exactly where to shoot them..
| taneq wrote:
| You wouldn't be shooing them away if there wasn't something there
| to shoo them away from. It's just logical.
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| >Geese chased out of a park in Chicago returned to the area twice
| as quickly on days when they were harassed, compared with days
| when they left of their own accord
|
| Because the reason they left was no longer valid, whereas when
| they left of their own accord presumably the reason was still
| valid (had eaten all the food, bad nesting, noise etc)
| bentobean wrote:
| Perhaps. On the other hand, I choose to believe the geese
| return out of spite.
| Pigalowda wrote:
| Indeed. It is important to leave as much poop on the walking
| paths as they can. Dropping density correlating directly with
| amount of food resources extracted also nicely correlates
| with spite. It's good to maximize both before moving on to
| victimize the next territory and path.
| quitit wrote:
| Peace was never an option. -UGG
| dwhitney wrote:
| This is the first time I've seen humor on this site. If I
| were you, I'd be afraid
| xwdv wrote:
| He won't last very long here.
| MiguelX413 wrote:
| rqtwteye wrote:
| I am not sure about geese but crows definitely do things out
| of spite.
| barbegal wrote:
| Exactly as the paper author explains in this article
| https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/972608
| swayvil wrote:
| Each goose thought, "ah, the flock has been cleared out. Now
| the field is all easy pickings. I will be clever one and return
| alone to reap a fat feast!"
| jwilk wrote:
| Any work-arounds for the paywall?
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ws...
|
| HN guidelines ask for links to the original article rather than
| a news summary. This is a perfect example of why.
| rzzzt wrote:
| The U of I's own article has more details:
| https://aces.illinois.edu/news/study-canada-geese-beat-human...
| jwie wrote:
| An excellent case study on data being pointless. The title might
| as well be "Geese want to be where humans don't want them to be,
| probably for food or habitat reasons."
|
| They're not twice as likely to return if shooed away. They want
| to be in certain places because they instinctively know it's a
| good spot for resources so they'll keep trying. The shooing had
| little to do with them returning or not.
| enkid wrote:
| The data is poorly worded, but it does give insight into the
| fact that shooting isn't as effective as a goose deterrent
| Jarwain wrote:
| Well at the very least, shooing isn't effective. Shooting
| seems like it'd be a very permanent goose deterrent.
| olliej wrote:
| This headline is clearly tailored to make it seem like spite or
| whatever, but it is clear _after_ the headline: if you shoo them
| away from where they want to be they come back, whereas if they
| no longer want to be there and leave they don't come back.
|
| This is like saying "people come back to their homes when I
| random set off their fire alarm at a much higher rate than when
| they decide to sell their home and buy a new house somewhere
| else".
| the_sleaze9 wrote:
| truly hilarious
| bitxbitxbitcoin wrote:
| Interested in the state on shooting away rather than shooing.
| andrew_ wrote:
| In Michigan we'd use a potato gun (for the noise) to scare them
| off, as well as very low velocity bb guns (hit the foot of one,
| they alarm and the flock leaves). The ultimate device to keep
| those poop machines away was my Australian Shepherd - sending her
| out to chase kept them away for a day+
| jcampbell1 wrote:
| The best way to deal with Canadian geese is an unneutered off-
| leash lab around a year old.
| the_common_man wrote:
| While parks and ponds are unusable because of geese poo. I love
| animals so i am not sure what to make of this
| paganel wrote:
| That we should probably learn to live with geese poo. We have a
| problem with crows poo in the city where I live, but I'd take
| that one thousand times over not having any crows at all, or
| geese, for that matter.
|
| Pigeons are a little different because they're mostly city-wide
| pets as things stand right now, they don't seem to fill any
| "needed" ecological niche, but I may be wrong on that.
| krisoft wrote:
| > Pigeons are a little different because they're mostly city-
| wide pets as things stand right now, they don't seem to fill
| any "needed" ecological niche, but I may be wrong on that.
|
| What is "needed"? How do you even define that? (And are you
| filling a "needed exological niche"?)
| paganel wrote:
| That's why I used quotes. Supposedly crows around these
| parts eat mice and even rats, which is good enough reason
| for me to define it as filling a "needed ecological niche".
| jwilk wrote:
| > city-wide pets
|
| Did you mean "pests"?
| paganel wrote:
| Goes both ways.
|
| I do have a lady close to me that treats them as pets,
| meaning she feeds them regularly. Some small kids also play
| with them, more exactly running after them, the same way as
| they'd play with dogs, let's say.
| chasil wrote:
| Their dung was harvested in Persia, and it still is today.
|
| This could be done in cities.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31885525
| master_crab wrote:
| Cull them. Controlling their numbers and loving animals are not
| mutually exclusive.
| Zak wrote:
| Less violent alternatives include:
|
| Finding nests and oiling the eggs to prevent them from
| developing.
|
| Landscaping parks to include more tall grass and similar
| obstructions to sight lines. Geese are comfortable where they
| can see predators a long way away.
| pigsty wrote:
| Oiling eggs seems like a laborious and environmentally bad
| solution (oil, even vegetable oil, being dumped everywhere
| and flowing into ponds doesn't seem good).
|
| If you're going to strangle eggs, I think there are much
| more efficient methods.
| master_crab wrote:
| Not to mention that modifying landscaping is not always a
| viable option.
| Zak wrote:
| There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer to conflicts
| between humans and wildlife, but I think generally
| speaking killing the wildlife shouldn't be plan A. Other
| options should be tried first when the wildlife isn't an
| imminent danger to people, including changes to human-
| made habitats, changes to human behavior, and non-lethal
| population control.
| pigsty wrote:
| Putting enough tall grass in a park to keep geese away
| would also have the consequence of making it keep humans
| away. Some untouched areas are fine, but if geese are
| avoiding it because they sense danger, humans will do the
| same. It comes with the reality of snakes, and worse,
| ticks.
|
| Nobody will let their kids play there and no adults will
| run or relax there. It'd be closed off and paved over if
| it's meant as an urban park.
| Zak wrote:
| Tall grass is not the only option for reducing sightlines
| near the shore of lakes/ponds, and reducing sightlines is
| not the only option for reducing the appeal of an area to
| geese. Another comment suggested introducing a pair of
| swans, though that also has potential downsides (swans
| can be aggressive toward humans).
| Zak wrote:
| I lack the expertise to offer a comprehensive
| environmental impact analysis, but it is an established
| population control technique. I suspect the amount of oil
| used is small enough that it doesn't have a significant
| environmental impact.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goose_egg_addling
| fedeb95 wrote:
| Less violent alternatives may have unwanted consequences,
| while killing animals is something that actually benefits
| their genetic pools. It's amazing how usually animal lovers
| and knowledge don't intersect
| Zak wrote:
| Introducing natural predators might improve the gene pool
| of a wild animal population, but humans randomly
| selecting animals to kill does not. Of course,
| introducing predators is almost certain to have unwanted
| consequences.
| fedeb95 wrote:
| How can you say that? Dogs and cattle survived to this
| day by being killed (or neutered) by humans. It's a win
| genetically
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