[HN Gopher] Drupal 10.0
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Drupal 10.0
Author : zdw
Score : 50 points
Date : 2022-12-17 14:22 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.drupal.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.drupal.org)
| tylershuster wrote:
| I moved from building sites on WordPress to Drupal about 5 years
| ago and never looked back. Thankfully I've only ever used the new
| (8+) architecture so I've never had to deal with all the
| procedural stuff.
|
| I enjoy using the CMS immensely. We build sites with a lot of
| well-structured data (mostly transit, and other government) so
| Drupal is a great fit. We also use it to power some services and
| it works great headless. I don't get the derision I see on HN
| about it a lot, but it doesn't matter. It pays my bills. I don't
| need other people to like it. There's certainly a large community
| of people who do.
| edavis wrote:
| Were there any resources (books, websites, videos, etc) that
| you found especially helpful as a WordPress developer trying to
| learn Drupal?
|
| I sling WordPress everyday and like it for the most part, but
| I'd like to have some Drupal knowledge in my back pocket.
| WordPress isn't always the best fit for some projects.
|
| So I'm on the hunt for "Drupal 101 for advanced WordPress
| developers" type material.
|
| Thanks in advance!
| tylershuster wrote:
| If you need some pointers about a specific subject feel free
| to email me at t@fust.us
| tylershuster wrote:
| Unfortunately, no. I was hired as a WordPress developer on a
| team that did a lot of Drupal work, so I was able to gently
| ease into doing small projects. Understanding the Drupal
| render pipeline will help you immensely, but it is
| complicated. Merely being able to understand entity types,
| fields, and views will put you leagues ahead of what
| WordPress can do for data-heavy sites. The majority of what I
| do with Drupal is configuring entities, fields, view, modes,
| and views. After that, it's basically just learning to twig
| syntax (not my favorite part of Drupal) and the various pre-
| process hooks to make data available to the theme. Once you
| have the core functionality pretty well understood, it's easy
| to extend it because basically everything in Drupal already
| extends Symfony.
| edavis wrote:
| Ah, gotcha. Great stuff here to start digging into.
|
| Thanks for taking the time!
| thevagrant wrote:
| Your best option is to subscribe to drupalize.me and work
| through their content. (I'm not affiliated)
|
| Unfortunately the changes over the years with Drupal meant
| you can find guides online but they may be outdated.
|
| There is also a book "Learning Drupal 9 as a framework"
| written by Stef Van Looveran. He appears to keep it updated
| and while it isn't a complete resource, it could be worth a
| look.
| kka wrote:
| Yeh, ignore the derision, it's the same people who say that PHP
| sucks.
| vi2837 wrote:
| Drupal is great and gets better with every release! It was a
| tough time making the technological leap from the D7 to the D8,
| but now it just evolves.
| pupppet wrote:
| I built everything with Drupal once upon a time but I got so
| tired of having to rebuild my theme practically from scratch
| whenever I needed to upgrade Drupal.
|
| This is how WordPress won, the devs didn't rewrite their APIs
| whenever they saw something shiny.
| prox wrote:
| Drupal 7 : great product, worked fine. Drupal 8 : "Let's change
| everything including the module architecture." Not a disaster
| if not for some critical modules that I needed, that took more
| than 3 years to be converted, at which point D9 was already in
| the works.
|
| I do sometimes miss Drupals fields and views system, that was
| quite good.
| calibas wrote:
| I've been told that after Drupal 8, they decided that mandatory
| nightmarish upgrades every few years was not a good idea and
| introduced much better backwards compatibility. They lost half
| the community during the D7 to D8 transition, many quit Drupal
| altogether or went with a D7 fork named Backdrop.
|
| For the record, I've done D6 to D7 and D7 to D8 data migrations
| on fairly complex sites. I say "data migration" and not
| "upgrade" because you're effectively creating a new site, then
| migrating the data over. Essential modules in one Drupal
| version may not exist in the next, though I understand D8, 9 &
| 10 modules are near identical so upgrading is way easier.
|
| There's another thing that really split the community, many
| want automatic security updates to Drupal core, but the Drupal
| core devs have taken a hard stance against this. Letting the
| site rewrite it's core files is seen as a major security risk,
| which I agree, but in my opinion that's outweighed by an even
| greater security risk. Every Drupal site needs an active dev to
| immediately perform security updates, but this isn't the case
| for half (or more) of Drupal sites and those sites get burned
| badly by the policy of forbidding automatic security updates.
| Drupal's adherence to "best security" has led to some absolute
| disasters (see Drupalgeddon parts 1, 2 & 3 where thousands and
| thousands of sites were hacked).
|
| Regarding Drupal versus Wordpress comparisons. Drupal has been
| moving towards being a Content Management Framework that
| requires a knowledgeable PHP developer to build and maintain.
| If you want an easy way of creating a blog/website that
| practically runs itself and has thousands of plugins for just
| about any functionality you can imagine, you don't want Drupal,
| you want Wordpress.
| mgbmtl wrote:
| The upgrades from D8 to D9 to D10 are still somewhat of a
| pain because they do deprecate things and not all modules are
| compatible (let alone custom code).
|
| Not to mention that upgrades have no tangible benefits for
| site admins. They lose features, and rarely any UX
| improvements.
|
| To be fair, WordPress core does break things sometimes, but
| most plugins are very actively maintained, so it's just a few
| clicks and the upgrade is done. Every upgrade brings UX
| improvements (and not just Gutenberg, but things around user
| account security, for example).
|
| I supported Drupal for 15 years, but that ship has sailed.
| quags wrote:
| Agreed that is a bad stance from a security standpoint.
| Security updates will always be coming , users can not be
| relied on to always update so you get sites that will never
| be updated and eventually hacked and spam/ scan / redirect to
| malware and create a bad experience. On your average shared
| host drupal would be set to write to itself anyway since php
| will run under the same username of the files. I guess
| permissions could be set lower to 444 to prevent this - but
| the fact Wordpress will auto update the core is essentially
| to security.
| kka wrote:
| I'm not very familiar with Wordpress, so don't know how
| auto-updates work in it. Does it really autoupdate the core
| remotely automatically, or it is a human who presses the
| update button?
| 1shooner wrote:
| >This is how WordPress won
|
| Appropriate use cases for Wordpress vs. Drupal have been
| diverging and I'd say functionally distinct since Drupal 8
| became usable.
| xhkkffbf wrote:
| Congrats to the Drupal team. I continue to use Drupal for a
| number of projects. It's not always what I need, but it's a great
| starting spot for building something bigger. The architecture is
| really pretty flexible.
| fabian2k wrote:
| The part about Drupal I really liked was the ability to handle
| structured content, not just a bunch of posts of free text
| written in some WYSIWYG editor. It required a bunch of modules,
| but later was part of the core CMS. This was really powerful to
| create specific workflows and ensure consistency.
|
| But for a small site Drupal got far too complex with later
| versions, and upgrading was pretty much impossible. Especially if
| you used any modules, it got very messy very quickly. Not sure
| how much better the other CMS are at this.
| subpixel wrote:
| Dozens of headless CMS systems have far better content models
| than Drupal.
|
| Often Drupal is used because it has been used for x years and
| change is hard, non-technical managers are hired on account of
| their years of experience "building with Drupal", and
| everything is shit.
| kka wrote:
| It's hard to agree with you but I won't argue. I worked with
| many CMS and I've not seen anything better in terms of the
| compound metric architecture + code-quality + support. Time
| will tell what users love more.
| vi2837 wrote:
| Don't think that there are many headless CMS that has better
| content models than Drupal. Basically Drupal has entities,
| bundles, fields, all can be stored in yml configs and it can
| be easy extended. Could you please provide examples?
| subpixel wrote:
| Better is relative, but from Strapi and DatoCMS on the
| lower end to Contentful on the higher end, there's a whole
| lot of possibility outside of a first-generation,
| monolithic CMS like Drupal.
|
| Drupal can do things, and in the hands of a developer who
| really knows the platform it can do things well. But I've
| been Drupal-adjacent for a decade and the vast majority of
| teams I've encountered landed on Drupal because a
| consultant they can no longer afford convinced them that it
| was the answer to all of their web publishing dreams and
| left them with hot mess. Especially in the civic and non-
| profit space the fact that Drupal powered the Obama
| campaign's web site kicked off a long era of cargo culting.
| kka wrote:
| I'm not familiar with all CMSs you mentioned but aren't
| they also monolithic (compared to microservices)?
| colinjoy wrote:
| Self-hosted Drupal is an open source, community run
| project, that is free as in beer. A lot of headless CMS
| are SaaS products, it seems. Apples and oranges.
|
| Is there a good resource listing/comparing the headless
| CMS options that are equally open and free as Drupal?
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| I've been running PortableApps.com on Drupal for 17 years now.
| Still running on D7 because the D8/9 upgrade path was always
| messy and a number of modules I use were never upgraded. Still
| debating between powering through a D10 upgrade and degrading
| some of the site due to lost modules, switching to Backdrop, and
| switching to something else entirely.
| coderintherye wrote:
| Im glad Drupal is still thriving, but at a certain point it
| became discombobulated enough that for simple use cases it made
| more sense to use WordPress and for complex use cases it made
| more sense to use Laravel. Drupal still holds a great niche for
| highly collaborative sites and Enterprise CMS. I wonder if it
| will ever find a resurgence to previous levels of popularity or
| will slowly fade into those niches.
| yucky wrote:
| This has been our experience as well. Laravel is miles ahead of
| Drupal and can be used to essentially build anything regardless
| of complexity.
|
| The only current use case I've seen is in legacy situations
| primarily because some IT dept for a local govt or university
| "knows Drupal" and so that's where their comfort level is.
| kka wrote:
| Nice! I left Drupal at the 7-8 transition stage, it was kind of
| hard to upgrade. And I actually said something like "Maybe I will
| come back to Drupal when they release 10". Now it's 10 and it's
| time for me to think about coming back.
| Gys wrote:
| You are not afraid running into the same problems again when
| v11 comes?
| drakythe wrote:
| It won't be near as tough. I've been in Drupal since the 6->7
| transition. D7 was still procedura with a homebrew event
| system (hooks). D8+ is OO based, near total rewrite built on
| top of symfony and a few other well managed PHP components.
| The change was drastic and removed 90% of the hook system so
| no D7 code could run on D8 if it wasn't a pure php library.
| Upgrading from 8->9 though is fairly simple on a requirements
| level and only gets tricky if you have some heavy
| customization. Each time a new major version comes out now
| there is an equivalent old version that still has all the
| deprecated code. So for instance moving from 9->10 we have
| 9.5.x that will be supported for the next year and has all
| the same features available to it as 10.0.x. So it is just a
| matter of tracking down deprecated code (either Drupal 9 or
| PHP < 8.1) and refactoring it, then running composer update.
| 10 to 11 will follow the same pattern unless there is some
| massive unforeseen change. This process can be accelerated by
| paying attention to the 6 month minor releases that mark code
| as deprecated and direct devs to the appropriate replacement.
| Odds are really good that a well maintained 9.4.x site can
| jump to 10 with minimal pain.
| kka wrote:
| After all the drama that happened, I think they have learned
| their lesson quite well.
| chad_strategic wrote:
| After using Drupal 7 and 8 I was hoping it would die when I left
| it. The word drupal and little blue icon brings me so much pain
| and fear.
|
| Every drupal programmer I even met only knew how to click and
| install, they never knew how to actually write code. My
| experience may be varied.
| [deleted]
| finestevenx wrote:
| I am in love with Drupal . It pays my bills for almost 15 years
| now.
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(page generated 2022-12-17 23:02 UTC)