[HN Gopher] When paper beats the screen
___________________________________________________________________
When paper beats the screen
Author : edward
Score : 65 points
Date : 2022-12-17 10:44 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.economist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.economist.com)
| hilbert42 wrote:
| I recall when as an IT department head I had a difficult CEO who
| often changed his mind (he seemed to always hold the view of the
| last person who spoke to him).
|
| My response was to refuse email from him (as emails can be
| ephemeral). Second, I requested all his future instructions to me
| be in words written physically in the form of black atoms adhered
| to sheets of white atoms and signed by his own hand in blue atoms
| at the end.
|
| It dismayed him and everyone including my staff some of whom I'd
| instructed to block my emails--yes, I'm likely one of the few
| heads of an IT department in history who refused to have an email
| address.
|
| Yes, it worked and he complied and ultimately I had the last
| laugh but that was only after the feud had become newspaper
| headlines.
| hcurtiss wrote:
| Respectfully, I would have fired you immediately.
| fedeb95 wrote:
| > In one part of their study, the researchers approached
| strangers and asked them to take a made-up survey. Half the
| respondents were given a pen and paper to fill out the form; the
| other half were handed an iPad. At the end of the exercise,
| respondents were asked if they wanted to give their email address
| to receive information on how to donate to a charity. Those who
| used paper were much likelier to provide their email addresses.
|
| Forgive my ignorance, but what should this mean?
| baq wrote:
| If you want someone to give you their email, give them a piece
| of paper and a pen and ask politely
| filoleg wrote:
| Once I thought about it, I realized that on some lizard-brain
| level with no logical reasoning present, I am indeed more
| likely to agree to give someone an email if they asked me to
| write it down on paper vs. type it in somewhere.
|
| I can think of many different reasons for why, but they are
| all just guesses at best. One that comes to mind is that
| writing it on paper feels more "personal", as in "i am giving
| you this piece of my info", and I instinctively know that a
| human will have to look at it, read it, or do something else
| with it. Regardless, a human will have to take a look at it
| before something else happens to it.
|
| While typing it on the person's device feels much more
| impersonal and more of a "I am entering my email into this
| digital form, with no expectations of any real human to ever
| look at it, with my email probably being sent into some
| database for some automated processing or spamming me or
| whatever else".
|
| The latter isn't a real objective concern of mine, both
| typing and writing it out could easily lead to the exact same
| outcomes (both good and bad). But just instinctively, I feel
| that this is one of the main reasons for why it feels
| different for me on a subjective level in the back of my
| head.
| mach1ne wrote:
| Likely that the experience of the electrical survey was more
| aggravating than the pen-and-paper one.
| fedeb95 wrote:
| I don't think that that can be concluded with certainty, or
| anything else beyond that the people in that survey with pen
| and paper were more likely to give their email address for
| charity.
| elliekelly wrote:
| Typing out an email address, especially on a device that
| isn't yours, does seem to feel particularly tedious.
| psychphysic wrote:
| Absolutely I don't understand how people use Google calender or
| even worse the outlook calender for any meaningful scheduling.
| whirlwin wrote:
| With wife and 2 kids who have activities now and then I cannot
| imagine a life without a shared calendar. Not sure how that
| would work. Perhaps with rigorous phone calls during the day to
| so sync up, but that's unfeasible for me at least
| psychphysic wrote:
| You literally share a calender it sits on your fridge and it
| has your shared appointments.
|
| If I really want to get work done then I need to make myself
| a to-do list.
| nottorp wrote:
| Which kind of scheduling? My task list is on paper (and in the
| issue tracker, sometimes at a far less detailed level). But my
| dentist's appointments and the rare meetings (we do async text
| comms 99%) are on my phone because it can SCREAM at me when
| neededd.
| danuker wrote:
| The notifications are an advantage. Paper can't scream at you.
| Broken_Hippo wrote:
| Plus, I always have my calendar with me and everything is in
| one place. I can simply _look_.
|
| Honestly, it is the same with notes - as in, lists and things
| to remember later. I always have my phone, so I always have
| the grocery list and can write down ideas that I have while
| on the bus or walking.
| kzrdude wrote:
| I guess the killer application is the shared scheduling,
| calendars kept in sync between everyone who is in the same
| meeting or activity.
| komali2 wrote:
| What do you mean? What do you use? I use google calendar for
| meaningful scheduling.
| psychphysic wrote:
| In terms of actually plotting my day and week. Electronic
| calenders for me don't lead to schedules I'm likely to be
| able to stick to.
| sho_hn wrote:
| The calendar for me is a coordination tool between me and
| many other people. Other people can see my calendar, too,
| and see whether I am available or not.
| psychphysic wrote:
| I guess it also depends on the office structure, I'm very
| lucky that our team is just the right size for a single
| secretary who coordinates our calenders if we ask.
|
| And mostly we coordinate with ourselves.
| sho_hn wrote:
| I'm working in a project with around 4000 people across
| 330 teams and quite a few different sites in a comm-heavy
| role - time blocks on the calendar to get work done can
| be a necessary survival tactic :-)
| makeitdouble wrote:
| I feel this hasn't much to do with calenders themselves,
| but I'm really curious why you wouldn't stick to schedules
| you set electronically.
|
| Is it about the ability to edit it afterward ? Or because
| it's not in your hand writing ?
| psychphysic wrote:
| I think the biggest and most obvious when it goes wrong
| factor is.
|
| That electronic calenders are less intentional people
| chuck over potential times and I don't necessarily
| consider if they are practical slots. Often I have
| multiple, up to five, conflicts with various meetings
| automatically appear in my calender.
|
| If I personally write it into my calender I have a
| stronger connection with the decision to attend or act at
| that time. And I just have a better sense in my mind of
| what that means in terms of that's in a fortnight, that's
| the day before Christmas etc.
|
| But what's come up in these replies is I'm also at a
| different team structure that my previous experience with
| Google calendars. Maybe I'm just not good in a large
| workforce Vs in a small 5 person team in a 20 office.
| pigsty wrote:
| Setting a reminder that's visible the moment I wake up and
| see my phone has a better chance of reminding me than
| something I've written on paper.
|
| But I personally use both. Paper is for ongoing goals I'm
| working towards since I'll glance at it several times a day
| (unless I forget my notebook), but for events and so on,
| electronic reminders are a "do this now" sort of thing that
| I can't accidentally miss because they're so distracting.
| psychphysic wrote:
| Ah I think the way I work leads to the opposite working
| in my notebook and forgetting to check my phone/emails.
|
| I think I'd struggle moving into that kind of setting.
| jrib wrote:
| > Doodling on a phone is just not as satisfying.
|
| Not the main point of the article, but that remark stood out to
| me.
|
| I sometimes still take notes on paper. Doodling to pass the time
| or let my thoughts wander is relaxing.
|
| I remember doing it all the time as a child. Do children still
| have this experience?
| e12e wrote:
| When I was using my surface pro 4 - I found it quite good for
| doodling (and note taking) in meetings. My ReMarkable 2 are in
| some ways better, some worse in this respect (I find I miss
| bright colored sketches, on the other hand the rm2 feels quite
| like pencil/pen and paper).
| seafoam wrote:
| >Do children still have this experience?
|
| Our children do.
|
| Son designed a seal to stamp on paper this week. Learned that
| it reverses the image, and that ink dries out.
| unityByFreedom wrote:
| > Do children still have this experience?
|
| Haha, yes, we are not that far gone..
| ergonaught wrote:
| Some very much are.
| AstixAndBelix wrote:
| LCD screens are a wonderful technology that has unfortunately
| been adopted for a whole range of unsuitable applications.
|
| this article talks about writing, but I want to highlight the
| viewing part.
|
| LCDs were not made to be stared at for hours on end, e-ink
| displays on the other hand were made exactly for that purpose.
| they don't tire your eyes more than a piece of paper and they
| require external light to be visible. this is very much in tune
| with how every single object has worked in the whole history of
| humankind until the invention of artificial illumination.
|
| in my opinion working for 8 hours in an office starting at an LCD
| screen should be considered as damaging as sitting at a computer
| for 8 hours with an incorrect posture. you end up with a headacke
| and your eyes burn, and the rest of the day is just painful to
| continue.
|
| this wouldn't be the case if some technology was invented that
| had the refresh rate and color palette of standard LCD screens
| while having the pleasant viewing experience of digital paper. I
| think many people would drop their books or even their e-book
| readers if normal tablet or computer monitors weren't painful to
| look at.
| BlueTemplar wrote:
| Even basic colour support (like 3 colours in addition to black,
| no grayscale) with a 1Hz refresh rate might be enough for me...
|
| And I would have expected us to have them by now, considering
| how colour e-paper has passed the prototype stage and is now
| widely used in supermarkets for labels ??
| [deleted]
| danuker wrote:
| [citation needed]
|
| You make many unsubstantiated claims. I don't get headaches
| from staring at an LCD even 14h/day.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > I don't get headaches from staring at an LCD even 14h/day.
|
| You are probably a young person (sorry for assuming)
|
| I didn't get headaches when I was 18 and stared for 14 hours
| straight at a 1024x768 14 inches CRT monitor at 85Hz
| interlaced.
|
| p.s.: the term you're looking for is "screen headaches"
|
| p.p.s.: http://oaxis.com/lcd-screens-harmful-effects/
| ergonaught wrote:
| I'm 51 and have been staring at screens for 40 years, on
| average rather close to the amount of time I'm awake, and I
| can't really connect that to headaches.
| danuker wrote:
| I am 30. I guess that is young-ish. I try to take care of
| my health.
| christophilus wrote:
| I'm in my 40s and don't get these. How old do you have to
| be before they set in?
|
| I have glasses-- without those, I'd probably get a
| headache. I also use a very high quality 5k monitor and
| proper lighting. Maybe those make a difference? Maybe I won
| the genetic lottery? Dunno.
| qnr wrote:
| Same, never got any headaches from any screens.
| Regardless of the type of the screen, lighting or viewing
| position. Have been using computers for almost 25 years,
| with many 10h days and occasionally 15+ hours.
|
| As I got older I started getting neck pain though, if I
| sit too awkward. But still no headaches ;)
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| I don't get headaches, but know many people who do and
| the frequency have increased lately during covid.
|
| What I suffer from since Covid restrictions settled in
| and had to work from home all the time, confined in a
| space that cannot be easy illuminated properly, is
| blurred vision.
|
| I don't suffer from it after reading an ebook on an e-ink
| in natural light, but I do after a day of work in front
| of my laptop display (can't easily move the 30 inches
| display I had at work because insurance, laws,
| bureaucracy etc) so mine it's not exactly a scientific
| study, but a close friend of mine she's an optometrist
| and she said to me that people reporting eye strain,
| blurred vision and headaches have almost doubled.It
| affects older people much more than the younger ones of
| course, but are treating kids too, that were a rarity
| before.
|
| They all have in common spending a lot of time in front
| of an LCD displays at home.
|
| I'm middle 40s.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| Working for 8 hours in an office is already considered
| damaging, staring at LCD or a pile of paper.
| mrob wrote:
| If your LCD is tiring your eyes, it's set too bright. E-ink has
| the advantage that it automatically shows the correct
| brightness for the lighting conditions, but there's nothing
| inherently less tiring about it. I have keybinds set to change
| my monitor brightness using DDC, so I can easily adjust my
| LCD's brightness as needed.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| If you lower the brightness on an LCD screen, it's going to
| have terrible contrast even if you use the lowest possible
| black because the "black" on that kind of screen is achieved
| by filtering out polarized light. Additionally on some screen
| models, low brightness is obtained by flickering the
| backlight which only adds to the discomfort.
| mrob wrote:
| Changing the brightness of an LCD screen does not affect
| the contrast of the emitted light. The lowest possible
| black is some percentage of the backlight brightness, not a
| fixed value. You can see this by changing the brightness
| while displaying a pure black image. LCDs do also reflect
| some ambient light, so turning down the brightness will
| reduce the contrast slightly in most environments, but many
| LCDs have anti-reflective coatings to mitigate this.
|
| LCD typically has higher maximum contrast than e-ink.
| alin23 wrote:
| When lowering the hardware brightness (either through the
| monitor OSD or through DDC), the voltage of the LED
| backlight gets lowered and thus the LEDs get dimmer and
| less light passes through the crystals. Polarization
| doesn't come into effect here.
|
| What you're describing happens when lowering the brightness
| through software (either Gamma adjustments or a dark
| overlay) because in that case you're only changing the
| software pixels to be darker.
|
| Although even in that case, newer miniLED/quantumDot LCD
| screens also lower the LED brightness when pixels get
| darker, because they have more granular control and dimming
| an LED doesn't cause shadows over a large area of the
| screen anymore.
| nottorp wrote:
| > If your LCD is tiring your eyes, it's set too bright.
|
| The race for brightness considered harmful :)
|
| The problem that LCDs have and CRTs didn't is that you lose
| color reproduction/contrast if you turn down the brightness
| to healthy levels.
|
| Hopefull OLED fixes that and becomes affordable. But I'm
| afraid manufacturers will still race for brightness even on a
| technology that doesn't need it.
|
| > E-ink has the advantage that it automatically shows the
| correct brightness for the lighting conditions
|
| Tbh I find eink very readable in bright sunlight and it's all
| downhill from there, to the point that i prefer reading on a
| tablet with brightness way down and the lights off to eink
| with a lamp on. But that may be a consequence of staring into
| LCDs most of my life.
| alin23 wrote:
| There's even software that can adapt that DDC brightness
| automatically using the ambient light around you. I develop
| Lunar (https://lunar.fyi) that can do that for macOS.
|
| For me, the screens I use are always at the brightness where
| white regions are as comfortable as a piece of paper. Sure,
| colors aren't reproduced "as the artist/developer wanted" at
| those values, but neither do I need that, nor do we have
| e-ink screens that can reproduce color more accurately.
|
| I just want to create software, research stuff on the
| internet, arrange my music etc. and if I feel like doing that
| for 10 hours straight, I only want the screen to tire my eyes
| as little as possible.
|
| I also read a lot of books and research material, both on
| Kindle and paper. My eyes get tired after hours of doing that
| as well. Light is not the only factor.
|
| So although it's good to try to be optimal about the light
| that gets in your eyes over large periods of time, it's best
| to also try periodic rest and moving some activities to non-
| screen mediums instead of fretting endlessly over the last 5%
| of screen light optimization.
| hxugufjfjf wrote:
| I've been looking for this software for ten years. My eyes
| thank you!
| lloeki wrote:
| > E-ink has the advantage that it automatically shows the
| correct brightness
|
| It doesn't because e-ink is a non-light-emitting technology
| so has no concept of brightness. Ambient light is what lights
| it up usually (unless one turns an entirely optional
| backlight on to read in the dark). So you don't need to
| adjusts as there's nothing to adjust, it's literally ambient
| light bouncing back, so is the same brightness by virtue of
| being the same light source.
|
| Conversely, typical displays (TN, IPS, OLED, CRT even...)
| being a light emitting technology, one needs to turn
| backlight _up_ as ambient light increases as both compete.
| (That is, unless it 's a transflective LCD, but even then
| it's quite dim in ambient light).
|
| > there's nothing inherently less tiring about it
|
| e-ink really is more like paper, while typical displays are
| like turning a flashlight straight towards your eyes.
| balaji1 wrote:
| but the e-ink displays have a dull gray background. While
| printer paper is the bright bleached white which a lot more
| pleasing and easier to read.
| AstixAndBelix wrote:
| >there's nothing inherently less tiring about it
|
| e-ink doesn't flicker.
|
| I know that past a certain number of Hz our brain just mushes
| the images together and we magically perceive that the
| motions on the screen are fluid, just like we believe our
| electric lights are completely on all of the time. But even
| though our final perception might be continuous, maybe there
| are steps in the image processing pipeline in our brain where
| something gets overloaded by the discrete refreshing of the
| screen.
| mrob wrote:
| My LCD doesn't flicker either. Some LCDs use pulse-width
| modulated backlights, which do flicker, and there are
| gaming LCDs with optional strobing to improve motion
| clarity, but these are not inherent to the LCD technology.
| AstixAndBelix wrote:
| Maybe you're misunderstanding the usage of "flicker"
| here. I'm not saying that I can _see_ my monitor
| flickering, because nobody can past a certain refresh
| rate. What I 'm saying is that any monitor inherently
| flickers because of its refresh rate, independently of
| our perception.
| sho_hn wrote:
| Refresh rate is not the same as flicker.
|
| Refresh rate is the rate at which new information is
| displayed. Flicker is things turning on and off.
|
| As the parent mentioned, some screens use fast cycles of
| turning on/off to modulate perceived brightness, but this
| is not always the case.
| shanebellone wrote:
| I'm not entirely sure if what's being said is true but I
| believe the intention is to stay:
|
| All LCDs "flicker" in the same way all movies "flicker".
| The technology simply displays or flashes a series of
| still images quick enough to be perceived as fluid motion
| or video.
| sho_hn wrote:
| I'm not sure that's the intention, because they said that
| "e-ink doesn't flicker". But e-ink certainly has a
| refresh rate. So I think they attribute some other form
| of flickering to LCD.
|
| (And in fact, some of the e-ink readers with optional
| display lighting will use PWM to modulate its brightness,
| and then exhibit flicker. This is a super dumb
| engineering choice, though, so it's not very common. The
| Kobo Forma was an offender.)
| AstixAndBelix wrote:
| >But e-ink certainly has a refresh rate
|
| of course it has a refresh rate when there is a change in
| the image, but if I'm reading something completely static
| then literally nothing changes whereas an LCD screen
| still does things in the background
| sho_hn wrote:
| On an LCD also nothing changes when the display image is
| static.
|
| When the image is not static, because an LCD updates line
| by line, if you don't coordinate your data updates to the
| refresh rate you can get artifacts such as "tearing",
| where different sections of the monitor show different
| data that doesn't fit together. However, e-ink displays
| doing differential or fast partial updates have similar
| problems (and some exciting new ones, making refresh
| overall quite bad). You just usually don't try to display
| fast moving imagery on them.
|
| e-ink displays are what is known as "bi-stable", meaning
| you don't need to apply a voltage to keep a pixel in a
| particular state, only when you want to change that
| state. This is not true for LCD, where you do need to
| keep supplying a voltage. This however doesn't result in
| any visual change if the voltage isn't changing.
|
| The real difference here is that LCDs aren't reflective,
| unlike e-ink. So you need a backlight, and that light
| shining at your eyes is more tiring than how things work
| with an e-ink display. That either doesn't need a
| backlight (in a bright ambiance), or the LED lighting
| isn't behind the display and doesn't shine directly at
| you, but rather bounces through the display surface. This
| is a nice quality.
| shanebellone wrote:
| Fair point. E-ink does refresh the entire screen though,
| correct? It's closer to a old-school slide projector than
| a monitor. I admittedly know little about this topic.
|
| As an aside, I'd love a secondary e-ink monitor.
| Hopefully the technology improves so prices come down.
| sho_hn wrote:
| > E-ink does refresh the entire screen though, correct?
|
| No, e-ink displays and controllers support partial
| updates.
| shanebellone wrote:
| Thank you for the correction.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| > not inherent to the LCD technology.
|
| actually they kinda are
|
| Blue light from close distance screens is the enemy of
| your eyes and has many other side effects.
|
| https://health.ucdavis.edu/blog/cultivating-health/blue-
| ligh...
| mrob wrote:
| The amount of blue light emitted by an LCD depends on the
| backlight used. Some brands advertise low blue light. You
| could even build an LCD with zero blue light emission if
| you wanted to, at the cost of being unable to display
| blue. And even with a conventional backlight, you can
| reduce the blue light to very low levels in software,
| e.g.:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift_(software)
|
| E-ink reflects light over a broad spectrum, so the amount
| of blue depends on the amount of blue it's illuminated
| with. It can be higher than the LCD in some conditions.
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| not disagreeing, but you can't chose the display of the
| laptop most of the times.
|
| Besides, in the last 2 years people reported many more
| cases of eye strain and blurred vision (at least in my
| country), because "home" is not really the best work
| environment for 95% of the people.
|
| There's a reason why offices are always well illuminated.
|
| e-inks are usually used with lights turned off and when
| ate not I use the red light because it's better for
| reading.
| kzrdude wrote:
| I use a paper notebook every day in my job. Pen and paper is a
| help for the mind, part of thinking out loud maybe. Far too long
| was I content with staring into a screen and trying to "think
| harder".
|
| As it has been said elsewhere, what I jot down are not finished
| thoughts but steps on the way there.
| pitaj wrote:
| I've tried using various digital Todo lists but nothing
| compares to the sticky notes on my monitor.
| Superbowl5889 wrote:
| Thanks anon for kindness l
| dang wrote:
| We detached this comment from
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34026745.
| dang wrote:
| Nothing wrong with saying thank you! but just to save space at
| the top of the thread, I detached this comment from
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34026745.
| 082349872349872 wrote:
| Anyone have notations specifically intended for pseudocode
| sketching on paper?
|
| (eg the "offside rule" was originally conceived to be easy to
| interpret even for handwriting)
| beagle3 wrote:
| Ken Iverson.
|
| It's called APL, it is incredibly effective, it won many
| awards, there's a book about it called "Notation as a tool of
| thought" which is a bit dated but still highly recommended.
|
| But it is not really compatible with modern programming
| languages and styles.
| nonoesp wrote:
| The digital medium often strips human expression when capturing
| input.
|
| Devices such as the Apple Pencil are getting better at capturing
| pressure and highly-detailed paths, which inturn are encoded as
| vectors and can gather information that is lost in physical
| mediums, such as coordinates, drawing order, and temporality,
| even capturing things not present on paper such as hover gestures
| and pressure.
|
| Yet it's common practice to reduce gestures and clicks to points,
| lines, or curves - two clicks from thousands of users in a CAD
| environment may output the exact same line from point A to point
| B - which often forget about the expressiveness of pencil strokes
| on a sheet of paper, features which could be used by machine
| learning algorithms to discern intent in the input of different
| users.
| uvdn7 wrote:
| I think it boils down to cost. Digital content is extremely cheap
| to replicate and distribute; hence the quality of the content is
| assumed to be lower (and it's usually the case). One doesn't have
| to put in too much effort in producing digital content.
|
| Now with ChatGPT, it's even more so than ever. It's practically
| free to produce digital content.
|
| On the other hand, even by just printing out a doc increases the
| cost of replication and distribution significantly (compared to
| pure digital replication); hence the quality of the content is
| assumed to be higher.
| coffeefirst wrote:
| Yes, and I think that's driven a novelty factor. If you spend
| all day on screens, it's the last thing you want to do more of.
| The paper book or vinyl record is special _because_ it 's
| disconnected and tactile.
|
| I'm also gradually hearing friends come to realize that their
| ebooks and streaming movies may vanish at the whims of
| corporate licensing agreements, but their libraries of physical
| books and DVDs are durable.
|
| Give it two more years and we might see letter-writing clubs
| emerge.
| kstrauser wrote:
| For me, it never does: https://honeypot.net/post/digital-notes-
| are-better-than-pape...
|
| Paper is worse for _my workflow_ in almost every way. I keep
| trying paper-based systems because of articles like this and I
| keep coming back to digital. I bring this up to say that it's OK
| not to like using a pen and paper. Find a system that works for
| you and not the mode person.
| isthisthingon99 wrote:
| Try a writing tablet like the Remarkable.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Trust me, I see the appeal. The back of my mind shouts that,
| if I were to get one, my organizational issues would go away
| and I'd be hyperproductive.
|
| I'm used to things calling out to me like that.
|
| As a halfway step, I've tried using a Rocketbook and scanning
| things in, with workflows to file text away appropriately.
| makach wrote:
| My remarkable 2 seems to work for me. I am always struggeling
| with note taking. Some times, it makes sense to write directly at
| the PC, but on occasion pen and paper is the way to go. Problem
| with paper is that I tend to, either lose it or crumple it and it
| becomes useless.
|
| With my remarkable I seem to be able to doodle notes better.
|
| For doing homework with the kids, and especially maths, the
| remarkable is _remarkable_
|
| we can burn through pages and pages of notes explaining and
| solving problems.
|
| Using a pen and a medium you can write on is extremely useful,
| and until you can PAVE the walls with screen and make them as
| endurable as paper - I will continune to prefer pen + paper.
| musingsole wrote:
| The reMarkable tablet is the best innovation on pen and paper
| since the ballpoint pen. It's become a thinking tool more so
| than any other electronic device I have, and it has me
| daydreaming about a tablet and stylus based computing
| environment.
| shanebellone wrote:
| Are these really worth it? I'm interested in the concept but
| worry it's not as practical as it looks.
| ek750 wrote:
| I don't have any experience with the remarkable, but i
| recently got a kindle scribe and it's better than the boox
| ereaders/tablets i've gotten over time.
|
| The clarity, density and speed of the kindle's screen is
| miles better than boox, probably close to remarkable if the
| videos are any indication.
|
| I got the Scribe for the large screen to read ebooks, but
| the pen and its responsiveness and feel is surprisingly
| good.
|
| i don't know if it does handwriting recognition, but the
| notebook app has been surprisingly fun for me to jot down
| notes when i'm contemplating a design problem.
| shanebellone wrote:
| The Kindle Scribe is also overpriced IMO. Plus, native
| advertisements (even when there's a paid upgrade) offends
| me as a consumer.
| e12e wrote:
| I am happy with my rm2, largely because the note
| taking/sketching feels great. It's pretty bad as an
| e-reader unfortunately. It's slow, and sometimes feels
| unresponsive - although the software keeps getting better.
|
| For reading it would have benefitted immensely from a pair
| of hw buttons for page turning.
|
| That said - unless you really want exactly the rm2 - I'd
| say it's maybe two to three times as expensive as it
| "should" be.
| shanebellone wrote:
| I agree with you. I'd buy this at a $200 price point
| without hesitation.
| maegul wrote:
| A bit wishy-washy, but the general point holds.
|
| Since the 90s, I've been somewhat surprised to see the PC
| technology fail to really learn from how well humans have
| leveraged printed information that is embedded in our
| environment.
|
| I figure screens and projectors are simply harder and more
| expensive than what would be required for the digital to get
| paper like. But still, it's disappointing.
|
| Incidentally, just watched a recent Bret Victor talk about his
| latest application of his RealTalk/Dynamicland system:
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_gXiVOmaVSo
| brainzap wrote:
| holy shit that duck animation is so good, it also teaches a bit
| on data collection and matching, love it
| makeitdouble wrote:
| The right balance is probably a mix of digital and analogue, so
| yes leveraging printed information where it's more cost
| effective or practical is a good call.
|
| Now, I think there really are better interfaces than paper in
| most of our everyday use cases, and it's more on what people
| are used to or what they're comfortable with (the Chinese
| student example in the article is basically that). It's totally
| valid, and everyone has preferences, it should just be
| explicited that it's really about individual taste.
| taink wrote:
| Here's the ordered list of publications mentioned in this
| article.
|
| [1] https://doi.org/10.1287/mksc.2021.1347
|
| [2] https://doi.org/10.1002/jcpy.1297
|
| [3] https://doi.org/10.1177/00222437211059540
|
| [4] https://hbr.org/2022/07/how-paper-catalogs-remain-
| relevant-i...
| hilbert42 wrote:
| _" In a series of 10 studies, we find that people are more
| likely to make virtuous decisions on paper than on a digital
| device because they perceive choices on paper as more real..."_
|
| Right, that's not only my experience but also those with whom
| I've worked (see my earlier post of refusing instructions by
| email, when on paper they were real and held much more weight).
| the-printer wrote:
| Can anyone recommend a good quality pencil that doesn't smear? I
| like pens. I do. I've never owned a good fountain pen, but I
| think I'd prefer a good quality pencil (for short-term notes at
| least). There's something about the feeling of the pencil making
| its mark across paper that is satisfying.
| blueridge wrote:
| I use Blackwing pencils while reading and for day-to-day note
| taking. Their long-point sharpener is also excellent.
|
| https://blackwing602.com/collections/pencils
|
| https://blackwing602.com/products/blackwing-one-step-long-po...
| hunter-gatherer wrote:
| Was given a nice mechanical pencil as a gift years ago and dug
| it up not too long ago and started using it. It is a .7 mm
| lead, which I believe is a minimum size for good notetaking for
| me. All through college I used regular wood pencils and loved
| writing with them. I believe the thicker leads are more
| forgiving for writting letters.
| abakker wrote:
| I love my Pentel Graphgear 1000. If note taking, I really think
| the way to go is .7 or .9 leads, but .5 is nice if you need
| fine lines.
|
| I use the .5 for woodworking, but a .7 along with a Rhodia dot
| paper notepad for my desk.
| john-doe wrote:
| https://archive.ph/JSlSm
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