[HN Gopher] Ask HN: How do you protect your children from intern...
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       Ask HN: How do you protect your children from internet addiction?
        
       I'm using "internet addiction" here in a loose sense. Think of all
       modern hyper-engaging online services: TikTok, MMORPGs, social
       media, video games, porn, etc.  I think HN users might be
       especially aware of how addicting these can be, so do you take any
       precautions to help your children avoid falling prey to them?
        
       Author : Archipelagia
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2022-12-16 20:01 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
       | exabrial wrote:
       | Well I'm browsing HN so.......
        
         | spoils19 wrote:
         | > Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not
         | less, as a topic gets more divisive.
         | 
         | Please follow the HN commenting guidelines in the future.
        
           | AnimalMuppet wrote:
           | Not sure why you're yelling at exabrial. I don't read either
           | the topic or his comment as being particularly divisive.
        
       | thenerdhead wrote:
       | I think our generation is a bit lucky as we're some of the first
       | who experienced internet/technology addiction. Many of us still
       | have challenges with it.
       | 
       | But that makes us more equipped to parent it. Moderation,
       | appealing alternatives, technical prowess, modeling healthy
       | habits, access in a public/supervised environment, etc.
       | 
       | I do wonder what the future will look like for parental controls
       | and big tech. Especially in the USA.
        
       | shp0ngle wrote:
       | I don't know if I will.
       | 
       | I was a computer addicted kid since I was about 8, when parents
       | bought me a computer in 1995. When faster internet came, in the
       | late 1990s and early 2000s, I was on the internet nonstop. And
       | later on social media - LiveJournal, Blogger, Flickr, YouTube,
       | but also some local servers that people here won't know.
       | 
       | I don't think it hurt me that much? Now I am a developer and
       | making more money than most of my friends from that time, that
       | were not sitting all day on computer.
       | 
       | So... it would be kind of hypocritical from me to restrict my
       | kids doing the same? I don't know
       | 
       | My kids are still too young to understand computers though (1 and
       | 3). So let's see
        
         | dahdum wrote:
         | Similar background here. I've been _Very Online_ for 25+ years
         | and have made a pretty good life for myself as a result.
         | 
         | However, the modern internet and current trend is much more
         | consumption based and non-technical than it used to be. Toxic
         | content, communities, and celebrities were always around (and
         | always will be) but with so much more overall volume you can
         | easily become encased in a bubble of negativity and hate.
         | 
         | I would curate and limit access for children into their teenage
         | years, say 14 or 15. After that I'd just want to know what
         | they're generally up to so I could step in if, for instance, I
         | had a son who started following Andrew Tate.
        
         | aliqot wrote:
         | This is a different internet than the one we had, is my own
         | apprehension.
        
           | DefineOutside wrote:
           | I've been addicted to the internet since 2010. I learned a
           | lot and became a developer because of modding communities and
           | general PC building. I've also wasted a lot of time on reddit
           | and youtube. Can't say anything productive has come out of my
           | time on the phone or consoles though.
           | 
           | It makes me wonder how the shift towards mobile and consoles
           | will affect how useful internet addictions can be. I would
           | have never become a developer if I remained a console or
           | mobile gamer.
           | 
           | The communities that I was in are still around but I'm unsure
           | whether young people will actually find them. Why learn how
           | to mod games when you can scroll tiktok, browse reddit, and
           | watch youtube for the entire day.
           | 
           | especially games, modern games aren't as supportive to
           | modders than older games - it's more profitable to not
           | provide modding tools and just to run any multiplayer servers
           | officially with microtransactions.
        
         | limbicsystem wrote:
         | I wonder if we should tolerate hypocrisy a little more? I
         | always liked this section from "the diamond age"
         | https://www.likevillepodcast.com/articles/2020/8/14/our-obse...
        
         | xhrpost wrote:
         | I feel like content and internet use was wildly different back
         | then. I did the same thing in that timeframe with a similar
         | result. But I was constantly constructive with what I did. Not
         | because I was a workaholic, I was just really curious and
         | interested in everything.
         | 
         | Linux? Cool let's install and play around for a while. How many
         | fun logos can I make in GIMP for my cheesy geocities site? Oh
         | half-life comes with a level builder, let's build some levels!
         | 
         | As time goes on, I end up exploring less and less and now just
         | absorb media when I'm not working. And it's not even fun or
         | satisfying, but the dopamine hit is easy. It could be just
         | partially growing up and having real responsibility and a full
         | time job, but I feel the content delivery bears some of the
         | blame.
        
         | mercacona wrote:
         | You can't compare writing blogs or early YouTube to current
         | trends: short videos, addictive productions, irrelevant
         | contents, etc.
         | 
         | My son has a friend who can watch YouTube and Tiktok for hours
         | without supervision. When he comes home I freak out: he gets
         | bored watching a movie, music videoclips are too long, and if
         | you try to read a short story at bedtime he doesn't even listen
         | to you.
         | 
         | It's not about using computers and participating in online
         | communities but undermining their attention, vocabulary, etc.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I think things have become MUCH more addictive as monetization
         | and engagement have evolved.
         | 
         | In the your era there just weren't the sort of a/b tested hooks
         | to get you in, behavioral techniques to keep you engaged and
         | dark patterns to prevent you from leaving.
         | 
         | gotta watch out for your kids. Get them outside, with fresh air
         | and exercise.
        
       | deafpolygon wrote:
       | Keep them offline.
        
       | mattpallissard wrote:
       | I don't them use my devices outside of school projects and keep
       | them busy doing things outside the house.
       | 
       | I realize this is easier for me than most as my oldest is only
       | 13, we homeschool, and we live in a very rural area with high
       | community engagement. Meaning the social pressure to be online
       | just isn't currently there.
       | 
       | Once they have a job and can buy their own devices they can do
       | what they please. Hopefully, the disdainful tone I use when
       | explaining social media companies to them fully sinks in by then.
        
         | LAC-Tech wrote:
         | _Hopefully, the disdainful tone I use when explaining social
         | media companies to them fully sinks in by then._
         | 
         | Yeah kids are famous for doing everything their parents say ;)
        
           | mattpallissard wrote:
           | Oh I have no doubts they'll give everything a whirl. There's
           | a certain amount of suffering required before you start
           | reconsidering lessons you had previously written off.
        
       | dudul wrote:
       | I just don't let them use screens. I have a 5 and a 7 years old.
       | To them a phone is used to call people, a computer is what Dad
       | uses to work, a TV is used 30 minutes a week to watch something
       | as a family and they don't know what a tablet is.
       | 
       | They've never used an "app".
       | 
       | They have books, blocks, Legos, dolls, coloring pages, and a ton
       | of random trinkets to play creatively. It probably requires being
       | more hands on than when you can use the TV set as a babysitter,
       | but it's well worth it so far.
        
       | fullshark wrote:
       | Every so often I see a post like this and think about the Bridge
       | on the River Kwai.
        
       | quickthrower2 wrote:
       | Screen time limits, and try to offer lots of things to do. This
       | is a lot easier with disposable income. But without a simple
       | bicycle and nearby park can go a long way.
       | 
       | But the games, videos and internet are very addictive: when I was
       | young it was just the dopamine hit of playing a game. But now it
       | is culture. Friends at school are on Roblox, Discord etc. This
       | makes it more challenging and more fights and begging etc.
       | 
       | A hard one. As a parent a small part of the role is to be the
       | mean unpopular person sometimes ;-)
        
       | tboyd47 wrote:
       | I've been fighting this battle for years and I still fight it
       | every day with my kids.
       | 
       | First, you MUST set limits on everything addictive to children in
       | your house including the internet. Limit the content they can
       | access and the place and time they can use it. You can adjust the
       | limits, but never remove them.
       | 
       | Second, if they're old enough, explain the concept of addiction
       | to them. Here is a perfect video to do that:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUngLgGRJpo A child will
       | understand exactly what addiction means after watching this
       | video.
       | 
       | Third, show them that you also have limits on your own tech
       | usage. They might not be the same limits you put on them, but you
       | have limits. They will understand this way that limits are not
       | something they can "grow out of" and are part of being an adult.
       | 
       | Last, when they do break the rules, don't shame them for it and
       | don't give them approval for it either. Make it clear that you
       | still love them and the rules are still in place.
       | 
       | Good luck.
        
       | SpeedilyDamage wrote:
       | You teach them about moderation, you give them the tools to make
       | their own choices, and you protect them from the obvious/bad
       | outcomes that would cause irreparable harm.
       | 
       | So like, add a network filter for gore/porn up to a certain age,
       | and try to do a good job of showing how to invest their time as a
       | reward function rather than the instant gratification path.
       | 
       | But ultimately, babying them will prevent them from growing, and
       | the moment they get out of your clutches (how they'll see it)
       | they'll binge/overindulge and not have anyone to stop the
       | irreversible mistakes from happening.
       | 
       | Limiting technology access creates a perverse relationship
       | between the kid and tech. If you want your kid to see technology
       | as a tool, not as a reward, you can't treat it like a reward.
       | It's super easy, but it sets the wrong example.
        
         | jackson1442 wrote:
         | Strongly, strongly agree.
         | 
         | I think of it similar to the issue of college students and
         | drinking. Freshman with highly restrictive parents are at a
         | greater risk of getting alcohol poisoning because they try to
         | "make up for lost time" or something when they move out.
         | 
         | My parents tried to limit a bunch of stuff in our house while I
         | was growing up, and it never ever worked. Once I figured out
         | self-regulation I was much better off.
        
           | smoldesu wrote:
           | Yep. It's frustrating to read through this thread of hacker
           | parents who think they can outfox their kid, knowing full-
           | well that their actions are either meaningless, driving
           | resentment, easy to work around, or outright stunting their
           | emotional development. You people could be using your
           | technical knowledge to host a Nextcloud server for your
           | progeny or to build them a library of the greatest television
           | shows ever made. Instead you choose to micromanage their
           | freedom and abuse your power as an adult to control their
           | lifestyle. It seems like a lot of people are making the wrong
           | choice.
           | 
           | I feel like everyone here should go watch Fiddler on the
           | Roof. Parents struggle to grow up and watch their offspring
           | grow into a younger facsimile of themselves, but trying to
           | intervene too much can often be the most destructive path.
           | The right way to raise a child is to grow alongside them.
        
       | tejohnso wrote:
       | We went from using YouTube as a babysitter to accepting that we
       | have to reduce our personal time allotment and be more engaged
       | with the child.
       | 
       | The television was removed from the living room wall and the only
       | screen time is shared activity screen time with a parent on the
       | weekends for an hour or so. Lots more board gaming, reading,
       | talking, crafting, playing. Way more parental involvement
       | required.
       | 
       | If there was some way to limit YouTube to specific channels and
       | disable recommendations we might still allow it. Maybe you can do
       | that with premium. In any case, we chose a household solution
       | rather than trying to work in a technical solution.
        
       | yumraj wrote:
       | One of the best things you can do is implement a strict no FB,
       | Instagram, tiktok, snapchat .. future social media policy.
       | 
       | Secondly, stop using those services yourself and take every
       | opportunity to tell them how much crap they are and how they
       | should not be used.
       | 
       | They will listen to you since you yourself are not using them. If
       | you use them and tell them not to, of course it's not going to
       | work.
       | 
       | Once social media is out of the picture, you've taken care of the
       | worst crap. Rest is incremental and you can build on the above.
       | 
       | Use pihole, other DNS filtering services to help filter other
       | services.
        
       | poutine wrote:
       | My 6.5yo has just gotten access to an iPad to do some learn to
       | read training through a specific app. No other apps permitted.
       | Before this there was no access at all to iPads or computers and
       | very limited TV time. We'll continue to slowly introduce tech
       | with heavy guidance and restriction as she ages, but she'll be a
       | lot less online than her peers seem to be. I don't really see
       | this as a detriment.
        
       | codegeek wrote:
       | This is something I think about a lot with 3 kids. I personally
       | believe that we need a balance between allowing devices/internet
       | (because this is 2022) and restricting few things.
       | 
       | For me, social media is an absolute No and I will fight my kids
       | until I can't. For example, there is no way I am going to let my
       | 8 year old do Tick Tok or Snapchat and what not. It is way too
       | toxic even for adults let alone a child who has not fully
       | developed mentally and emotionally yet. However, we restrict by
       | talking to them openly about why we don't think it is a good idea
       | and then show them that we are still giving them these other
       | freedoms. Most kids appreciate that if you are honest instead of
       | just saying No.
       | 
       | I don't think you can restrict using apps or parental controls
       | because those can be bypassed once kids get smarter. We have 0
       | parental controls on the devices they use. I want my kids to
       | learn the difference between good and bad by having access and
       | freedom but the right information.
       | 
       | On the flip side, we don't restrict them from doing iPad/laptop
       | to play certain types of games (.e.g word puzzle) or even
       | minecraft etc. We don't restrict them from doing things on
       | internet like google slides for creativity etc. We don't restrict
       | them from watching Youtube or movies for kids under our
       | supervision.
       | 
       | The other thing is to not give them too much opportunity to do
       | devices/internet. If they are busy with an activity, they don't
       | care. If they have nothing to do, they "get bored" and want to be
       | on their devices. So create enough opportunity for them to do
       | activities ideally something that doesn't involve
       | internet/devices etc. So far, our kids have been very good with
       | boundaries and the freedom they have to do things. I know that if
       | you restrict everything, that won't work.
        
         | annoyingnoob wrote:
         | I tend to agree. My kids have to earn device time by doing
         | other things. We use ScreenTime with my son to keep him honest.
         | Also had to setup a network for the kids that turns off between
         | 11pm and 7am, caught them on devices late at night a few times.
         | You need to give them opportunities but you also need to keep
         | them honest, sometimes that takes limits.
        
       | chasd00 wrote:
       | i have a 13 and 11 year old. We keep them engaged as much as
       | possible off screen in physical activities. They get plenty of
       | screen time though and I try to do my best to steer them to at
       | least useful content. There's lots of interesting content that
       | children can learn from on youtube especially science and
       | history. I watch with them and try to steer to as much productive
       | content as i can but am not always 100% successful.
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | Enable them to do more real-life stuff. Kids see technology as a
       | bottomless pit of fulfillment, which is mostly true if your
       | alternatives are frolicking outside or wishing you could buy
       | something cool. If you instead provide them the means to make/do
       | something they're proud of, they'll probably have a healthier
       | relationship with social media and the internet. Get them a
       | sewing kit, buy that bin of used Legos on Ebay, or get the
       | breadboarding stuff they keep asking about. If you give a kid an
       | iPhone, they're going to be constantly attached to it simply on
       | the basis that it's the most expensive thing in their possession.
       | 
       | Obviously though, you're not going to protect your children from
       | themselves. IMO, the best you can do as a parent is teach them
       | healthy means of self-expression.
        
       | vz8 wrote:
       | We changed DNS for all devices to use OpenDNS familyshield [0]
       | for starters. It's a passive way to throttle some of the worst of
       | the worst out there.
       | 
       | Of course setting some limits on how much / how often helps a
       | bit, and frank discussions about what too much of an addictive
       | thing does to you.
       | 
       | Our youngest is developmentally delayed and will absolutely
       | ignore any guidelines and follow the path of least resistance /
       | most enticement, so their bedroom connection runs through a proxy
       | running Squid [1] where I've whitelisted school and certain
       | entertainment (that took a bit of time running Telerik Fiddler[2]
       | to gather the many domains necessary for the whitelist)
       | 
       | Spotify was a bit of a problem, again with our youngest who went
       | straight for the podcasts with the most adult content, which
       | Spotify gleefully recommended the first moment we turned the
       | service on. Could never find a way to turn podcasts off - never
       | wanted them.
       | 
       | We run our own Emby[3] server that everyone has access to with
       | curated music tv and movies (and also have the usual streaming
       | video services, but those are reserved for common areas).
       | 
       | Looked at other options like walled garden family services (e.g.
       | Amazon Kindle Fires with subscription), but there seems to only
       | be content ranging up to ~12 year old tastes.
       | 
       | [0] https://support.opendns.com/hc/en-
       | us/articles/228006487-Fami... [1] http://www.squid-cache.org/ [2]
       | https://www.telerik.com/fiddler [3] https://emby.media/
        
         | gattanimell5 wrote:
         | i hope some of your childrens manages to bypass family filters
         | and starts his passion for the magical world of cybersecurity
         | this way
        
       | nkohari wrote:
       | You're going to get a lot of skewed results here, because a lot
       | of parents aren't going to feel comfortable telling the truth:
       | that almost all parents allow a reasonable amount of screen time
       | to their kids, even if they know it's not the healthiest thing
       | for them.
       | 
       | Personally, we have a four year old and an almost-two year old,
       | and they're watching a Leapfrog show on the TV as we speak. We
       | limit their access to screens, but realistically there are times
       | when they're really useful.
        
       | RGamma wrote:
       | Now consider the effects reported here on emotionally
       | helpless/immature children and realise that adults fall victim to
       | the same effects but express them differently.
       | 
       | Take the collective entertainment media engagement numbers and
       | the fact that adults are no longer constrained by supervision in
       | this regard and extrapolate the impact on hundreds of millions of
       | adults times ~10 years for many billion experience-days under the
       | influence of SM engagement and you'll get the perfect description
       | of modern societal ills.
        
       | sys32768 wrote:
       | My ex taught in several schools in a fairly rural area and always
       | praised the attention spans of the Hutterite children which
       | seemed almost remarkable in comparison to the regular tweens who
       | had smart phones.
        
       | gumboza wrote:
       | Lego. Still works every time here.
        
       | type0 wrote:
       | Encourage their interests in good things like physical
       | activities, science, technology, books, music, theater.
        
         | padde wrote:
         | Internet is technology. It's a blurry line... When mine come up
         | with creative ways to circumvent Internet access restrictions
         | (e.g. use mobile phone as hotspot for the laptop, because for
         | that I had set a limited time window in the router) I'm happy
         | to see a future hacker on one hand, and really pissed on the
         | other hand because I seem to have ended up in an arms race.
        
       | koalaman wrote:
       | After having spent a fair amount of time using various different
       | tools to attempt to control their screen time, my conclusion is
       | that it was a mistake to have any screens in the house in the
       | first place.
       | 
       | A library of great books, good games, craft and art materials,
       | and a collection of musical instruments would have been the best
       | thing for my kids I'm thinking. Screens just make them addicted
       | and miserable.
        
         | slothtrop wrote:
         | > A library of great books, good games, craft and art
         | materials, and a collection of musical instruments would have
         | been the best thing for my kids I'm thinking. Screens just make
         | them addicted and miserable.
         | 
         | Are these mutually exclusive? If those items are around, and
         | kids are taught how to make use of them, they will use them.
         | Restricting screen time might be a necessity but it's less of a
         | sore spot if it can easily be substituted and the habits are
         | ingrained.
        
         | seneca wrote:
         | Completely agreed. They may be left out by some peers for not
         | being up to date on internet culture, but they will have much
         | richer lives and personalities for having spent that time with
         | all of the things you listed.
         | 
         | It's a difficult path, and not for everyone, but I think it's
         | the right one for people willing to do it.
        
         | agentwiggles wrote:
         | > A library of great books, good games, craft and art
         | materials, and a collection of musical instruments would have
         | been the best thing for my kids I'm thinking. Screens just make
         | them addicted and miserable.
         | 
         | I agree in principle, and one of the saddest things to see is
         | the pile of all these wonderful diversions sitting ignored
         | while Youtube plays. (See my other comment about how we have
         | essentially banned Youtube in my house for this reason).
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | theonething wrote:
       | My kid's almost three. From day one, we've implemented a zero
       | screen policy. That means no phones, tablets, computers, TV
       | (don't own one), etc.
       | 
       | We've read to her since day one and she loves books now and her
       | spoken/listening language skills are way ahead for her age. Wife
       | speaks to her in her native language so she's growing up
       | bilingual too. Wife takes her to parks, mommy and me classes
       | where they have story time, sing, physical activities, arts and
       | crafts and free play with toys. At home, we expect her to be able
       | entertain herself with toys, books, backyard, etc.
       | 
       | It's not perfect, but at a parenting class, I heard screens
       | described as crack cocaine for kids, so I'm keeping mine away
       | from that shit for as long as I can. She seems to be doing fine
       | without them and though she's curious when she sees one, she
       | doesn't ask/whine for them.[0] I don't even plan to expose
       | educational app games to her. So many other richer ways to learn
       | in 3D space. I highly doubt she'll fall behind for lack of
       | exposure to screens.
       | 
       | [0] The most screen exposure she gets is with others. People
       | these days don't seem to be able to socialize and interact
       | without their phones.
        
         | factsarelolz wrote:
         | Interested in your household. Dual income? Single Income
         | w/SAHP?
         | 
         | What is your plan for Grandparents, babysitters, childcare, or
         | even the school system to help maintain no screens?
         | 
         | No screens seems awfully privileged in a way... maybe you're
         | just Bill Gates
        
           | Archipelagia wrote:
           | I think your phrasing is needlessly hostile.
           | 
           | Around the world it's quite common to have an extended family
           | serve as a support network, especially around childcare.
           | You're right though that maintaining no-screen when your
           | child is with others is harder though, and finding how people
           | deal with that was my main motivation for making this thread.
        
           | ellm wrote:
           | > maybe you're just Bill Gates
           | 
           | Not impossible.
           | 
           | https://www.businessinsider.com/screen-time-limits-bill-
           | gate...
           | 
           | I think it's quite brash to say that it's "privileged" to
           | raise children with no screens. Would you like to elaborate?
           | People certainly existed without them.
        
         | adaml_623 wrote:
         | What do you do with her when you are out with friends?
         | Restaurants, etc?
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | Kids went to these places before smartphones. Restaurants,
           | for example, tend to have crayons.
        
           | pea wrote:
           | One of the nice things about going to southern Europe
           | (Greece, Spain, Italy, etc.), is the lack of expectations of
           | kids to sit quietly at all. From my experience over the last
           | few years, you go to a restaurant at 10pm and everyone's kids
           | are running around, playing together with strangers, or
           | asleep on their parents.
           | 
           | As a parent of a 3 year old in the UK, with friends and
           | restaurants we'd just talk to them or they'd colour, read,
           | etc. Maybe cultural, but it would be seen it as pretty
           | unusual/rude to have a kid with an iPad at a table in a
           | restaurant; although I agree it's a lot to ask of 3 year old
           | to sit there for hours.
        
           | theonething wrote:
           | Believe or not, especially if we order something she really
           | likes, she'll sit there eating her food and talk to us,
           | making comments about things she notices in her environment.
           | 
           | Could this be just her personality and we got lucky?
           | Possibly. But I'm willing to bet it also has to do with her
           | not being used to screens and instead being used to focusing
           | on the environment in front of and around her. There are
           | studies about the association between screen time and ADHD
           | symptoms.
        
           | mixmastamyk wrote:
           | Sit quietly, talk, color, maybe read. Is this hard to
           | believe? We did that.
        
             | factsarelolz wrote:
             | A 2-3 year old sitting there quietly talking, coloring or
             | reading? Yeah it's very very very hard to believe. Even if
             | the child is an absolute saint there's such things as
             | sensory overload.
        
               | benjaminwootton wrote:
               | Are you guys being serious? It would be a cold day in
               | hell before my children sat at a dinner table with an
               | ipad for entertainment! A 3 year old talking, colouring,
               | playing games etc before food arrives is absolutely
               | normal and acheivable!
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | D13Fd wrote:
               | Right on. I'm always amazed when we go to a restaurant
               | and there are kids on iPads while eating.
               | 
               | There is no question that iPads are the _easiest_
               | solution, but it's rarely the best solution, and it's
               | certainly not necessary. Humanity survived for thousands
               | of years without having iPads for kiddos at restaurants.
        
               | nkohari wrote:
               | What works for some doesn't work for everyone. Parents
               | should do what works for them and their kids, without
               | judgement.
        
               | HideousKojima wrote:
               | Seeing as parents were able to bring kids with them to
               | places long before screens even existed, it's definitely
               | not just a matter of what does or doesn't work. Kids can
               | be taught to be well-behaved without screens, and you're
               | unable to do that for your kids then that's on you. And
               | I'll judge you as much as I like.
        
               | mixmastamyk wrote:
               | I do agree that different kids are different. Ours were
               | often good. However I absolutely did not tolerate poor
               | behavior either. If things got dicey (rarely) I escorted
               | one outside until the storm passed. Never took longer
               | than five minutes. Turning them into zombies instead
               | never occurred to me.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | If you bring kids to restaurants early, they get used to
               | the rules quite quickly. If they can figure out a
               | touchscreen, they can figure out how to sit politely at
               | the table.
               | 
               | Mine were very happy to draw, read picture books, etc. at
               | that age.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | christkv wrote:
           | Bring card games, dominos or board games like carcassone
           | junior. The kids will entertain themselves. Set is also very
           | popular.
        
           | mercacona wrote:
           | Paper and color pencils. Speaking to them, listening to their
           | stories, asking about the place, playing to "guess what I'm
           | watching to", etc.
           | 
           | If friends expect my son to act as a dog, it's their wrong.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | gattanimell5 wrote:
         | the thing that really kickstarted my passion for it was when i
         | was left some hours alone with a old netbook, 5-6, and it was
         | very slow, but i wanted to to something cool with it, and I
         | followed some tutorials on YouTube to make small programs in
         | visual basic
        
         | KerrAvon wrote:
         | Find a Waldorf school with a strict no-media policy and you
         | have a fighting chance to keep the kid healthy through grade
         | school.
        
           | theonething wrote:
           | One of the classes she goes to is in fact Waldorf. ;)
        
         | kleiba wrote:
         | But your child will not be almost three forever. I have one in
         | the same age bracket myself with three older siblings. The
         | little one has practically no interest in screen time anyway,
         | but it's a completely different story with the older ones.
         | 
         | At some point, they will get in touch with media one way or the
         | other. In our case, once they get into school, they'll be using
         | ipads anyway. So, I agree that for very little children,
         | there's is absolutely no need to expose them to any screen
         | time, but at some point as they get older, they will need to
         | learn how to use phones and media.
         | 
         | We're still very restrictive with screen time, though. It's
         | more like a treat that they get to play with a device for 30
         | minutes (which I, honestly, find already too long, but I'm not
         | a single parent).
        
       | imranq wrote:
       | My approach is to demystify the addictive thing as much as
       | possible.
       | 
       | Kid wants to play video games? Have them create their own video
       | game before playing other video games
       | 
       | Addicted to TikTok? Have them create their own videos and channel
       | before watching other peoples channels
       | 
       | Addicted to the internet? Have them create their own websites
       | before having them see other people's websites
       | 
       | The foundations of addiction rely on the mind creating cycles of
       | dependence on a single activity due to a lack of finding the same
       | dopamine rush in other known activities. So if they understand
       | what is going on behind the scenes that actually results in the
       | dopamine rush, they can find healthier alternatives. They will do
       | this automatically since dopamine with understanding = freedom
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | > Have them create their own video game before playing other
         | video games
         | 
         | Brutal
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | I'm not criticizing your approach at all I'm just wondering how
         | you get from
         | 
         | > The foundations of addiction rely on the mind creating cycles
         | of dependence on a single activity due to a lack of finding the
         | same dopamine rush in other known activities. So if they
         | understand what is going on behind the scenes that actually
         | results in the dopamine rush, they can find healthier
         | alternatives.
         | 
         | to what you've come up with? How does creating your own video
         | make them understand what is going on behind the scenes when
         | watching a video and how that creates a dopamine rush?
         | Absolutely, creating your own videos is much more satisfying
         | but I don't see how that relates to better understanding when
         | watching a Tiktok feed.
        
       | rr888 wrote:
       | Realistically I've pretty much given up. The only thing is if we
       | have school, organized events, sports - social interaction.
       | Otherwise the (barely working) phone comes out - or the laptop
       | which is required for all homework now. I'd love to do something
       | but looking around the adults are just as addicted.
        
       | LAC-Tech wrote:
       | I have a 3 month old and this is something I am wondering about
       | already, since I am definitely prone to YouTube binging -
       | especially if I'm in a bad mood, tired etc.
       | 
       | I tell myself I need it for background music then before.I know
       | it I'm binge watching comedy routines I've seen 10 times before.
        
       | christkv wrote:
       | We have no online games and no YouTube as base rules. We pick
       | games that have some meaningful interaction to them. Games like
       | Minecraft, Jurassic Park Evolution 2, Cities Skyline, old Sierra
       | games, puzzle games. It's time boxed and only after
       | responsibilities are taken care of like homework and helping out.
       | I prefer they game over watching tv passively.
       | 
       | I am considering getting rid of consoles and just getting them
       | steam decks instead as their first computers and then do some
       | modding with them.
        
       | fred967 wrote:
       | TV, not before 3 years. The personal console, not before 6 years.
       | Internet, after 9 years. Social networks, after 12 years.
        
       | bcrosby95 wrote:
       | For our kids the big problem was youtube.
       | 
       | Give them a game on their tablet and they are quickly
       | collaborating on it. Give them a show and they will go see what
       | the other person is watching. After not too long (an hour or two)
       | they are completely done and doing something else.
       | 
       | But youtube is different. They can sit alone, in a corner, slack
       | jawed, for 8 hours per day, only watching youtube, as they
       | respond to all questions with only a vague grunt.
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | My kids do this and I mostly just let them. They do well in
         | school, have friends, are physically healthy. I was the same
         | with TV and games at their age and now I'm living the life.
         | Internet addiction can be an outlet for other unhealthy
         | behavior but I don't think it's a cause.
        
         | annoyingnoob wrote:
         | Do not give them access to roblox, you won't even get a grunt.
        
         | agentwiggles wrote:
         | Youtube has been essentially banned in my house after seeing
         | the effect it had on my kids. The problem, in short, was that
         | Youtube continuously feeds them new content. Sadly - especially
         | given the huge amount of actually great content on Youtube -
         | everything that it wants to show my kids is absolutely dogshit
         | garbage. A bunch of Gen Z kids with obviously wealthy families
         | just acting like idiots. I couldn't stand it any more.
         | 
         | I am, in general, a fairly permissive and liberal-minded
         | parent. I had to put my foot down and have just disabled the
         | site on the devices they use.
         | 
         | It makes me sad because I know if they were directed to the
         | right kinds of videos they could learn all kinds of things and
         | be inspired by the creativity of the folks behind them. This is
         | not what comes up in the feed and the content that they've
         | become most interested in is the mental equivalent of eating
         | off-brand Oreos for every meal. Hard pass.
        
           | mrexroad wrote:
           | Several kids in my household. YouTube plays a vastly
           | different role for each, which is frustrating.
           | 
           | Oldest goes down rabbit hole of topics of interest - benign
           | useless filler stuff, e.g. mostly pro sports commentary,
           | random things like Disney ride trivia, and other random pop-
           | culture filler. If left unchecked, i wouldn't be surprised if
           | they spent 8+ hours on YouTube. If moderated, YouTube gives
           | them a fair amount of stuff to talk and connect with others
           | about in real life. Overall impact: neutral to slightly
           | positive if moderated to <1h/day. Food/drink equivalent:
           | Honey Mustard and Onion Pretzel pieces (a few are great, but
           | then you can't stop and you end up eating 1500 calories and
           | everything tastes wrong for 24h)
           | 
           | Younger teen: will consume insane amounts of gaming videos,
           | most of the creators border on toxic personalities. We've
           | banned a number of channels for them, but they find other
           | shitty personalities. I can't stand the content they consume,
           | but I chalk a fair bit of that to my ignorance about teen
           | culture and mostly grit my teeth. Covid was the worst. I hate
           | YouTube because of their content choices. However, it does
           | provide a small basis of connection to their group of
           | friends. [edit: I also stupidly made a deal that w/ straight
           | A's I won't be overly restrictive, which they've upheld,
           | _sigh_ ] Overall impact: toxic to the point where every month
           | or two I'm convinced to ban YouTube across every device in
           | the house. Food/drink equivalent: Natty Light that's barely
           | chilled.
           | 
           | Pre-teen: by choice, they spend ~3/4 of their YouTube time
           | learning new skills or facts. Mostly learning specific
           | techniques in the iPad app Procreate, acrylic painting (irl),
           | a ton of educational videos about wildlife/animals they love,
           | etc. But more significantly, their YouTube use has created
           | the reflex to "search first" whenever facing a
           | knowledge/skill gap, then ask for help. They're the only
           | reason i don't straight up block YouTube at the network
           | level, for all devices. Overall impact: very positive.
           | Food/drink equivalent: natto and rice.
        
           | mhss wrote:
           | I largely agree, but I've not banned it. I just have
           | explicitly told them they can only watch from the
           | subscriptions we've curated. It requires monitoring of
           | course, so they'll watch it on tv (Apple TV) when I'm
           | present. My kids are young enough that they're never alone.
           | Once they're not, I've been thinking if I can write a MITM
           | proxy at home for youtube that somehow only allows content
           | from explicit channels.
        
         | speg wrote:
         | We just added YouTube to my son's iPad. In addition to a daily
         | time limit we also locked his account down so he can only see
         | videos that we explicitly add to his account.
        
       | givemeethekeys wrote:
       | Think of any bans and constraints as a loaded spring. Unless they
       | have something that they enjoy / rewarded for / need to do with
       | their time, you'll just frustrate them. They'll do the alcohol,
       | drugs, TV, internet all behind your back. Or maybe they'll binge
       | on it after they leave your house.
       | 
       | Instead, maybe introduce them to alternatives that are worth
       | being addicted to. And, lead by example. Try to find something
       | that you and they would enjoy doing together.
        
       | thirdreplicator wrote:
       | I have been experimenting with different cell phone policies over
       | the past few years with my kids and here is what we settled on.
       | 
       | At our house, we have 6 children ranging in ages from 7-12 (3 of
       | them are mine). No cell phones allowed Mon-Fri, but on Saturday
       | and Sunday, they can have their phones from 2pm-9pm. We sleep at
       | 9pm everyday. Sometimes during the week I'll let them watch a
       | movie. Also, if they want to use their phone for learning
       | something new like oragami, a piano tune or how to draw, then I
       | let them use it for an hour or however long they need it as long
       | as they are responsible.
       | 
       | The result is lots of imaginative play time like fashion shows,
       | disco parties and pretend school. There is a lot of time for
       | studying and playing instruments. All the kids were "A" students
       | this last quarter.
        
       | qzx_pierri wrote:
       | The solution to this problem is actively parenting your kids.
       | Take them on hikes, start a hobby with them, bond, etc. Letting
       | the internet babysit your kids is the precursor to internet
       | addiction. If you put in the work, then you won't have to worry.
        
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