[HN Gopher] XFCE 4.18
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       XFCE 4.18
        
       Author : severine
       Score  : 263 points
       Date   : 2022-12-15 14:17 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (alexxcons.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (alexxcons.github.io)
        
       | Nursie wrote:
       | Nice, and congrats to the team that have worked on this!
       | 
       | I look forward to this rolling on through to debian in the coming
       | weeks and months. HiDPI improvements are welcome, and the other
       | tweaks and updates look good. Xfce has been my daily driver for
       | over ten years now (I think...), and I hope that it's
       | unopinionated, configurable attitude has a lot of life in it yet.
        
         | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
         | I used to use XFCE as a desktop of choice, but switched to
         | Plasma/KDE instead as XFCE didn't have great HiDPI support.
         | Maybe I should try it out again.
        
       | type0 wrote:
       | Another venerable resource efficient desktop environment is
       | Trinity https://www.trinitydesktop.org/ continuation of third KDE
       | version
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | Ever since I switched my desktop to Linux, I've been using
       | Cinnamon. I've noticed XFCE, and occasionally used it briefly on
       | some machine, but I've certainly not explored its capabilities
       | (e.g. from the Chicago95 link I gather it can definitely be a
       | "traditional desktop layout" style affair, perhaps with a
       | different launcher.
       | 
       | Can someone point out to me, as a Cinnamon user - who remembers
       | the Windows 5 UI fondly -some aspects of XFCE I might find
       | appealing?
        
       | jasperry wrote:
       | Scanning through the feature list, the more straightforward
       | management of the application/mime type associations is a big win
       | to me.
       | 
       | Like probably most people who use XFCE, I appreciate how it
       | focuses on small, incremental quality-of-life improvements
       | instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.
        
       | coldpie wrote:
       | Awesome. Been using XFCE for ages. It hits just the right spot of
       | modern features and usability without trying to re-invent the
       | desktop paradigm for the Nth time. If you just want "Win98, but
       | in 2022," you've found your desktop environment.
       | 
       | WRT this update, the Thunar updates look fantastic. The File
       | Highlight feature looks especially cool. I can imagine using that
       | to highlight really frequently used folders in my home dir
       | ("projects" folder etc) to make them stand out in the file
       | browser. Customizing the toolbar buttons is a welcome feature.
       | I'm also glad to see improvements on the default application
       | feature, which I found difficult to use before.
        
         | dmm wrote:
         | As an enthusiastic XFCE user, do you mind answering a question?
         | How do you usually launch applications?
         | 
         | I can appreciate the discoverability provided by a nested start
         | menu but I've grown very fond of text launchers with
         | autocomplete provided by gnome, mac os, dmenu, etc.
        
           | blensor wrote:
           | I know my desktop is a mess but I usually have one window
           | with many terminals open.
           | 
           | So if I want to start a program without going through the
           | menu Alt Tab to the terminal window, then I start it from the
           | commandline (gimp, code, blender, godot, etc.)
        
           | branon wrote:
           | Not the parent but I have the Xfce AppFinder bound to the
           | Super (Windows) key. I think I'm somewhat misusing it, but
           | it's fast enough that I can strike Super and then immediately
           | start typing the name of what I want. Dropped keys are rare,
           | but it's not quite as fast as something like dmenu.
        
           | nor-and-or-not wrote:
           | I use XFCE4 together with Albert
           | https://albertlauncher.github.io/
        
           | forgotmypw17 wrote:
           | I usually open a term and run "screen myapp"
           | 
           | I don't run that many applications though.
        
           | pachico wrote:
           | I'm also an old hardcore user of xfce (xubuntu) but I can't
           | live without https://ulauncher.io/ or similar projects.
        
           | eYrKEC2 wrote:
           | I bind <ctrl> + <esc> to the "Application Finder". This makes
           | it launch with keybindings matching those that launch the
           | Windows start menu. I start typing the program and it narrows
           | down the results until the program is selected. Then, I hit
           | <enter> and it opens the program.
           | 
           | * In Applications -> Settings Manager -> Keyboard Shortcuts
           | 
           | * + Add
           | 
           | * command: xfce4-appfinder
           | 
           | * shortcut: Ctrl + Escape
           | 
           | ----
           | 
           | My other favorite bindings are to tile a window into a
           | quadrant of the screen.
           | 
           | Applications -> Settings Manager -> Window Manger -> Keyboard
           | 
           | Search "Tile window to the top-left", et c.
           | 
           | I hold ctrl + alt and then one of                   qwe
           | a d         zxc
           | 
           | These commands tile the window to                   <top-
           | left> <top> <top-right>         <left>               <right>
           | <bot-left> <bot> <bot-right>
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | For browser windows and terminals I have special Launcher
           | buttons on the panel. For the rest, sometimes from the menu,
           | often straight from the command line in a terminal.
        
           | coldpie wrote:
           | For super common stuff, I have icons in my panel for them and
           | I use the mouse. I open Terminal so often that I gave it its
           | own global keyboard shortcut.
           | 
           | For less often used things, I use the xfce program launcher,
           | which I think is what you're looking for. I have it mapped to
           | some keyboard shortcut (the muscle memory is so automatic I
           | don't even remember what the shortcut is and I'm not at my PC
           | at the moment). It automatically focuses the text entry box,
           | so no need for the mouse at all. Here's a screenshot from the
           | linked article:
           | https://alexxcons.github.io/images/blogpost_8/appfinder.png
        
           | apricot wrote:
           | Most of the time, I use dmenu_run (bound to super-R) for
           | launching usual applications, and the menu for seldom-used
           | ones.
        
           | gen2brain wrote:
           | I use gmrun for many years, in every DE, bind to Alt+F2. I am
           | happy that now there is a new home here
           | https://github.com/wdlkmpx/gmrun. I cannot imagine using
           | something else.
        
           | ufo wrote:
           | Here's what I did back when I used XFCE a couple of years
           | ago:
           | 
           | The xfce whiskermenu plugin includes a text search feature
           | that looks similar to the one from Windows. On Xubuntu the
           | whiskermenu is the default "start menu" while in some other
           | distros you may need to add it in the panel settings.
           | Finally, in the keyboard shortcuts bind Super to the
           | xfce4-popup-whiskermenu command, to bring up whisker menu for
           | a text search.
        
             | KronisLV wrote:
             | > Finally, in the keyboard shortcuts bind Super to the
             | xfce4-popup-whiskermenu command, to bring up whisker menu
             | for a text search.
             | 
             | I've had this trigger the popup menu when there is another
             | shortcut that binds the Super key in combination with
             | something else. Say, if I had something under Super+R, then
             | the menu would also open. Though maybe this has been
             | patched out in the newer versions, I remember that issue
             | being the case in an XFCE desktop from 2020.
             | 
             | But other than that, this is indeed a really nice and
             | usable setup!
        
               | raisin_churn wrote:
               | ksuperkey[0] addresses this, though it is unfortunately
               | not widely packaged so you likely have to compile it. I
               | haven't used it in a while, but it worked well when last
               | I did.
               | 
               | [0] https://github.com/hanschen/ksuperkey
        
               | andai wrote:
               | Same, so I rebound whiskermenu to Meta+Space.
        
               | iza wrote:
               | I worked around this issue using xcape to map my Super
               | key to another key combo:                 xcape -e
               | "Super_L=Alt_L|F1"
               | 
               | Then set the keyboard shortcut for xfce4-popup-
               | whiskermenu to the new combo (Alt+F1 in this case). This
               | allows other Super shortcuts to work without triggering
               | whiskermenu.
        
           | jasperry wrote:
           | Are you using WhiskerMenu? It should really have replaced the
           | default application launcher by now. It upgrades the
           | launching experience from Windows 98 to at least Windows 7.
        
           | bhattisatish wrote:
           | Not parent commentator, but in my case I do the following:
           | rofi -show run
           | 
           | The above command is mapped to Command-R Similarly Command is
           | mapped `xfce4-popup-whiskermenu`
           | 
           | Both land on a search box and you can search to your heart
           | content and select the option that works for you :-)
        
             | ollien wrote:
             | +1 for Rofi
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | I use rofi on pretty much any desktop environment, it's
             | super great. I'm eagerly awaiting its window-search feature
             | getting wayland support (Knowing wayland it will be
             | compositor-specific though...).
        
           | aliqot wrote:
           | I just right click the desktop and use the menu that pops up
        
           | rglullis wrote:
           | <super+R> (at least on my settings, don't remember if that is
           | the default) opens "Application Launcher", which gives you a
           | search prompt that finds (AFAICT) by executable name and
           | definitions in _.desktop and_.service files.
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | > If you just want "Win98, but in 2022," you've found your
         | desktop environment.
         | 
         | If you want Windows 95 in 2022:
         | https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95
        
           | cf100clunk wrote:
           | While we're at it, you can customize XFCE to look like macOS
           | Big Sur:
           | 
           | https://invidious.baczek.me/watch?v=oQ8RWtD3MTQ
           | 
           | EDIT: there is an updated version of this procedure:
           | 
           | https://invidious.baczek.me/watch?v=uvvoJU69uNo
        
           | gattilorenz wrote:
           | > If you want Windows 95 in 2022
           | 
           | Indeed the metaphor is apt: font/positioning problems that
           | still can plague Linux in 2022, but didn't appear as much in
           | Windows in 1995 :^)
        
           | Koshkin wrote:
           | Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FVWM95
        
           | gsich wrote:
           | It's actually pretty good. Sometimes the inconsistencies
           | shine through.
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | > WRT this update, the Thunar updates look fantastic
         | 
         | Nice! I'm a Thunar user (but not XFCE in general) and missed
         | that updates to Thunar was included until I saw your comment.
         | As someone who deals a lot with images, the preview is a very
         | welcome change! Really happy with Thunar.
        
       | geek_at wrote:
       | Can you finally resize windows with a larger grab area than
       | 1pixel? That drove me nuts
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | I don't use XFCE, but maybe it's possible to fix this with an
         | xfwm4 theme? The theme I used on sawfish back in the day had a
         | similar 1-pixel grab area, and I was able to change it by
         | forking the theme and modifying it.
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | Same here. I love XFCE, but this is really annoying. I would
         | solve it by protruding a small shape from the windows external
         | sides/angles that can be grabbed more easily as soon as the
         | mouse pointer approaches them, rather than using thicker
         | windows borders.
        
         | mhitza wrote:
         | Could probably be theme dependent, as I have what look like 3
         | pixels in there https://i.imgur.com/LD4BF4E.png :) (I use the
         | Arc Dark theme)
         | 
         | I usually do right click on the title bar to resize the window.
         | But that muscle memory might have been conditioned from having
         | to deal with 1px corners in the past!
        
         | nicolas314 wrote:
         | Try Alt+RightClick and drag. Not so easy on a trackpad but fine
         | with mouse.
        
           | julianlam wrote:
           | That's fine and all (I make heavy use of this -- always miss
           | it on Windows), but it's a workaround to a legitimately
           | inferior UX decision.
           | 
           | It's similar to when early Dell XPS's would overheat when
           | gaming with the monitor open, because the monitor itself
           | would block the sole exhaust vent. The workaround _then_ was
           | to attach an external monitor and keep the laptop screen at
           | 45 degrees.
        
       | jayp1418 wrote:
       | Only DE which supports all BSD, Linux most DEs have problem in
       | one or other BSD or require lot of patches to be used with
        
         | chungy wrote:
         | GNOME and KDE both work fine on Linux and FreeBSD. In addition,
         | OpenBSD usually gets the newest GNOMEs.
        
           | tcmart14 wrote:
           | It has gotten better on the BSDs, but there are a lot of
           | patches and shims that have been implemented and maintained
           | to do that though.
           | 
           | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGwaT5rQML0&t=580s
        
             | chungy wrote:
             | Should be worth noting that NetBSD is its own thing;
             | FreeBSD and OpenBSD haven't had problems getting the newest
             | GNOME versions for the entire lifetime of 3.0 and higher.
             | 
             | Unlike Linux, the BSDs aren't distributions of some
             | "upstream BSD"; instead they are developed independently
             | with different feature sets and different goals. Unique
             | challenges for NetBSD don't reflect on how other BSD
             | derivations behave.
        
         | nortonham wrote:
         | I think at least one of their devs uses OpenBSD as their
         | primary OS, but I read that as a comment, so not sure if ture.
         | It's great XFCE is available across distros and the BSD's
        
       | Anthony-G wrote:
       | One of the nice things about XFCE is that its window manager
       | includes a style called "Kokodi" (on CentOS 8 Streaming) which
       | shows the active or focused window with a distinctive blue title
       | bar.
       | 
       | I've found that many other window managers (including MS
       | Windows), don't make this visually obvious (i.e., there's little
       | difference between the focused and non-active windows) which
       | makes it harder to discern which application is currently active
       | while using multiple monitors.
        
         | red_admiral wrote:
         | THIS.
         | 
         | I remember the days when you could pick a theme (which was just
         | a set of bitmaps with a fixed palette) and then pick a couple
         | of "accent colors" to customise it. If you picked your
         | favourite shade of dark wine red as your GTK_ACCENT_COLOR
         | (might have been called something else, I forget), then
         | highlighted things like buttons, selected text, and the title
         | bar of the active window only would be that color.
         | 
         | I loved the old flexibility of being able to choose the shape
         | of my buttons, title bars and widgets and then tweak the color
         | myself - "I like that theme's rounded buttons, but I want them
         | in red not blue" kind of thing.
        
         | wooptoo wrote:
         | The window style `Default-4.4` does the same. Incredibly
         | useful.
        
       | Koshkin wrote:
       | General population needs a "desktop," I get it. But for those
       | comfortable with the CLI, a window manager (e.g., one that _does
       | not suck_ [0]) should be good enough. (Coming from personal
       | experience - used Gnome /KDE/XFCE, enjoyed them all, in the end
       | went back to a blissful world of MWM.)
       | 
       | [0] http://dwm.suckless.org/
        
         | clircle wrote:
         | What does CLI have to do with tiling windows?
        
           | Koshkin wrote:
           | DWM and MWM are two different window managers; DWM supports
           | various window layouts.
        
       | red_admiral wrote:
       | Well done. XFCE is a desktop for people who want just a desktop,
       | and a file manager that manages files well - Thunar is a great
       | piece of software IMO.
        
         | schipplock wrote:
         | yea, Thunar is a godsend.
        
       | tux wrote:
       | I've used XFCE (since Mar 9th, 2008 until Apr 7th, 2021) now
       | using "i3-wm v4.21" as my main window manager on all computers.
       | But I still use a lot of XFCE software like Thunar been most
       | notable. Thunar has received much needed love, thank you to all
       | developers making it better. Thunar now has "Split View" (dual
       | pane mode) this is one of the reasons why I used more "PCManFM"
       | or "ranger", but unlike Thunar "PCManFM" never had an option to
       | hide "menu" in GTK only in QT. And now Thunar's menu/toolbar is
       | more customizable. File Highlight is a nice addition, I've been
       | using custom "LS_COLORS" for terminal for a while now. Now all
       | the Thunar needs is embeded file info dialog similar to side pane
       | and maybe ability to have toolbar vertical (on left or right) ;-)
       | 
       | EDIT: One of the best choices XFCE team made is to not use/enable
       | CSD [1] by default. This would of killed XFCE project for those
       | of us who love classic XFCE look. Please never force users to use
       | CSD, make it an option(al). Thank you!
       | 
       | [1] Window Header Bars - All header bars of Xfce Windows/Dialogs
       | by default will be drawn by the window manager now (Xfwm4). Some
       | dialogs optionally support 'GtkHeaderBar' (CSD) which can be
       | enabled via a xfconf setting.
        
         | mizzack wrote:
         | You should give i3 + XFCE a go... Start an XFCE session, launch
         | Session and Startup settings, disable xfwm4 and xfdesktop, add
         | i3, relogin. Done! XFCE DE with i3 window management.
        
           | WHA8m wrote:
           | Is this what they do with the Fedora i3 spin? Sounds (looks)
           | a lot like it. I'm very new to Linux and I was wondering
           | about "that other DE" when I just wanted i3. Maybe I have to
           | go for Fedora Core + i3 separately then.
        
           | dixie_land wrote:
           | Interesting. I also run i3 with XFCE components but I cherry
           | pick them and start them under my i3 session. Specifically I
           | use the xfsettingsd from xfce so I can still customize the
           | appearance using the Settings app, and without having to
           | restart the session for them to take effect
        
       | lastdong wrote:
       | Best desktop manager ever, it's so lightweight but provides all
       | the functionality you need, and super customisable too.
        
       | alxlaz wrote:
       | Does anyone know of a good way to disable that braindead window
       | fading "feature" in GTK? If you look at the changelog, the text
       | in the inactive window is barely readable. I have to squint to
       | read it on most monitors.
       | 
       | Fading it is also unnecessary in most applications. Gnome apps
       | need to do it because they have no titlebar, but this isn't a
       | problem in most cases, and xfwm can draw titlebars just fine.
       | 
       | I know I can manually overload the GTK theme's backdrop
       | properties but I was kind of hoping someone on the Interwebs
       | found a way that doesn't require me to drag .css hacks over
       | umpteen computers.
       | 
       | Background: a good chunk of my work involves things like
       | comparing simulation and measurement results among multiple
       | applications/windows. Text in inactive windows being unreadable
       | is a little counterproductive when I try to do that. I
       | begrudgingly put up with the huge widgets but having to squint at
       | screens for eight hours a day is not fun.
       | 
       | (FWIW, Adwaita is even worse).
        
         | jasperry wrote:
         | I think it's the compositor doing that. In XFCE, you can
         | control that from the "Window Manager Tweaks" app, in the
         | "compositor" tab.
        
           | alxlaz wrote:
           | It's not the compositor, sadly, this is a GTK "feature". GTK
           | allows you to define colors for various elements separately,
           | depending on whether the window has focus or not. This is a
           | good idea on paper, but in practice it seems this either
           | doesn't have enough granularity (to allow e.g. dimming button
           | text, which is probably useless when the window doesn't have
           | focus, but not the text in text views, for instance, which
           | you might actually want to read even from unfocused windows),
           | or most theme designers, including Adwaita's, use it
           | indiscriminately.
           | 
           | If you have a high-DPI monitor with good contrast it actually
           | looks okay. But I routinely have to work with work-issued,
           | ten year-old monitors in artificially-lit offices. It's
           | really terrible.
        
             | jasperry wrote:
             | I see. I guess the only solution is to go on a theme hunt,
             | then. I use Bunsen themes with XFCE, and haven't
             | encountered that problem, but I don't use a lot of GTK3
             | apps.
        
         | cwillu wrote:
         | Settings | Window Manager Tweaks | Compositor | Opacity of
         | inactive windows
        
           | alxlaz wrote:
           | That is not what I'm asking about. I don't mean the _opacity_
           | of inactive window. What I want to disable is GTK 's setting
           | of the color of various elements depending on whether the
           | window has focus or not. Even with compositor opacity set at
           | 100%, GTK windows that don't have focus get that dim grey
           | text. The color is, technically, theme-defined;
           | unfortunately, both Adwaita and Greybird use a really low-
           | contrast color that I find really difficult to read on some
           | monitors.
        
       | happyjack wrote:
       | Kudos for the xfce team to keep up the project after all these
       | years. I haven't used desktop Linux in a couple years, but
       | xubuntu and Debian / xfce were always great experiences.
       | 
       | I think this project is really underrated, and I think xfce yo
       | and attitudes towards interface are really good. It's also super
       | stable!
        
       | Kukumber wrote:
       | It is in my favorite Desktop Environment
       | 
       | I moved to XFCE when Canonical announced going back to Gnome 3
       | 
       | I wish they'd replace the Gnome filepicker too, that is the worst
       | piece of garbage i ever seen, you can't even manually type a
       | path!!
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | > I wish they'd replace the Gnome filepicker too, that is the
         | worst piece of garbage i ever seen, you can't even manually
         | type a path!!
         | 
         | Don't have it in front of me right now, but can't you hit
         | CTRL+L to bring up the "address bar" and manually write the
         | path there?
         | 
         | CTRL+L works in a lot of places to enter paths, from web
         | browsers to local disk browsers.
        
           | Kukumber wrote:
           | Issues i have with the path bar (from the top of my head)
           | 
           | 1. it is not permanent, it disappears and never remember
           | anything
           | 
           | 2. it doesn't respect the paths (can't navigate)
           | 
           | 3. i don't want to play a keyboard shortcuts game
           | 
           | That's just one of the issues i have with the Gnome
           | Filepicker, there is also the mounted disks that appears like
           | it's a mobile UX, and many more, i have a document with
           | everything that i hate about it, but i'm not on my PC to
           | share it, it is an UX disaster
           | 
           | I wish i could use Thunar as a filepicker, that would be
           | perfect
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | > 1. it is not permanent, it disappears and never remember
             | anything
             | 
             | What is it supposed to remember? Last path you opened?
             | Seems to work fine for me in Firefox at least. First I
             | tried uploading a image to imgur from my Downloads
             | directory, then next time I wanted to select a picture it
             | opened into the Downloads directory. Then I uploaded a
             | image from my Pictures directory and next time it opened,
             | it opened directly to the Pictures directory. Is this not
             | what you mean?
             | 
             | > 2. it doesn't respect the paths (can't navigate)
             | 
             | Not sure what this means, if you type in /tmp and then
             | Enter it'll navigate to /tmp just as you expect it to. If
             | you're in /tmp/directory it shows "$DriveName / tmp /
             | directory" and clicking on any of them navigates to the
             | right place.
             | 
             | > 3. i don't want to play a keyboard shortcuts game
             | 
             | Why do you want to have a path bar that you type into then
             | if you don't want to use the keyboard? Just manually
             | double-click your way to success instead of using the
             | keyboard, nothing is stopping you. Either use the keyboard,
             | or don't. Both approaches work.
        
             | Gordonjcp wrote:
             | At least on normal Ubuntu 22.04 the path bar behaves as
             | you'd expect - it shows what you've clicked on, and if you
             | click on the path bar and start typing a path it goes where
             | you say.
        
             | HeckFeck wrote:
             | > i have a document with everything that i hate about it
             | 
             | I can save you the effort by reminding everyone that the
             | GTK3 file picker is a _significant_ setback from the
             | Windows 98 filepicker, and it the amount of times I
             | encounter it on Linux is beginning to feel like
             | flagellation.
        
               | Gordonjcp wrote:
               | Can you explain why you think it's worse?
        
               | HeckFeck wrote:
               | No thumbnail images. It is a meme for good reason. Really
               | annoying after how many years waiting?
               | 
               | Low on details, extremely limited customisation options.
               | 
               | When I begin typing a file name to save a file, it
               | interprets this as a desire to filter the contents of the
               | file list.
               | 
               | The aforementioned lack of any path or way to type in the
               | full path to a location.
               | 
               | There were more but thankfully I don't see it as often
               | since I use KDE now.
               | 
               | This site compares the two directly:
               | https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-
               | thumbna...
        
               | stonogo wrote:
               | The thumbnails-in-filepicker feature branch was merged
               | recently:
               | https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/merge_requests/5163
               | 
               | The rest of your complaints, which I share, remain
               | unfixed.
        
               | Gordonjcp wrote:
               | So the reason it's broken, is that it doesn't do all the
               | annoying things that make the file picker in Windows 98
               | broken?
               | 
               | Granted I've never used Windows 98 so I don't know what
               | I'd compare it with but all those misfeatures sound
               | annoying.
        
               | HeckFeck wrote:
               | I think you've read me wrongly. All that I described
               | above are problems in the GTK3 file picker that aren't
               | problems in the Windows 98 file picker.
               | 
               | See the linked web page for a screenshot of the W98
               | picker for a visual aid.
        
               | Gordonjcp wrote:
               | Yes, the Windows 98 one is broken.
        
               | HeckFeck wrote:
               | If you think that not having image thumbnails for image
               | files in a filepicker is a 'feature', you must be
               | trolling. Or a Gnome developer.
        
         | severine wrote:
         | https://feaneron.com/2022/12/14/the-burial-of-the-filechoose...
        
       | rrmm wrote:
       | I've been using XFCE for many years now (currently though
       | Xubuntu). It stays out of the way. I'm glad to see continued
       | improvements without forcing a complete remake or overhaul for
       | the sake of change.
        
       | app4soft wrote:
       | > _Custom Actions_
       | 
       | > _It is now possible to arrange custom actions in cascading
       | submenus. Just enter the same submenu name for a custom action in
       | order to place it into the same menu. If you require multiple
       | menu levels, you can achieve that by using ` /` in the path of
       | the 'Submenu' entry._
       | 
       | In 2012 KDE AppMenu Runner was presented as a "plugin which
       | allows to browse, search and select the menubar of the active
       | application".[0]
       | 
       | In 2019 I requested to somehow implement a feature, similar to
       | _Blender_ 's "Menu Search"/"Operator Search"[1], into _Olive
       | Video Editor_.[2]
       | 
       | After resulted0 _" Action Search"_ was implemented into _Olive
       | Video Editor_ (` /`) shortcut, its code was reused for _" Action
       | Search"_ in _Scribus_ (`Ctrl+ /`) and then converted into
       | Qt5-plugin.[3,4]
       | 
       | Year later, this Qt5-plugin code reused in for implementing
       | global _" Action Search"_ in _helloSystem_ FreeBSD
       | distribution.[5]
       | 
       | Then _" Search and Run a Command"_ (`/`) was added into
       | _GIMP_.[6]
       | 
       | Guess, _GIMP_ 's implementation may be used for other GTK-based
       | apps too (especially _Inkscape_ , which still has no such
       | feature).
       | 
       | [0] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/02/appmenu-runner-the-
       | kde-h...
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/interface/controls...
       | 
       | [2] https://github.com/olive-editor/olive/issues/265
       | 
       | [3] https://github.com/scribusproject/scribus/issues/109
       | 
       | [4] https://github.com/aoloe/scribus-plugin-actionSearch
       | 
       | [5] https://github.com/helloSystem/hello/issues/21
       | 
       | [6] https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gimp/-/issues/5601
        
       | mongol wrote:
       | I love XFCE but it has some strange bug with custom keybindings
       | that unfortunately spoils the experience for me. I have spent
       | many hours trying to work around it but eventually gave up.
        
       | codeulike wrote:
       | Weird that the page neglects to explain what xfce is, even by
       | hyperlink
       | 
       | After several clicks:
       | 
       |  _Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for UNIX-like
       | operating systems. It aims to be fast and low on system
       | resources, while still being visually appealing and user
       | friendly._
        
       | bgorman wrote:
       | XFCE should be spending all of its development efforts on
       | supporting Wayland. The project's priorities are clearly not in
       | the right place to ensure the future growth of the project.
       | Market share will continue to decline until wayland support is
       | added, no matter how great any new features are.
        
         | oblio wrote:
         | If you view Xfce as the hobby project for several undergrad and
         | grad students, you will understand their priorities better.
        
         | josteink wrote:
         | I don't know. Wayland support is very important (tm) to us
         | Wayland-users, but I don't know how the rest of the world feels
         | about that.
         | 
         | It could be like that whole _kerning_ -thing which is super-
         | mega important to some people, while the rest of the world
         | don't even notice?
        
           | nortonham wrote:
           | X always worked fine for me and my basic use case. I do agree
           | something new is needed to replace it, but I don't have a
           | need to try it until it's more mature.
        
           | rwmj wrote:
           | People also complain loudly about Hi-DPI support and tearing
           | with X. I've not noticed either of them being an issue ever.
           | I can play videos fine and I can plug my laptop into a 55"
           | TV, and it all just works (as far as I can tell) with plain
           | old X11.
        
             | ChuckNorris89 wrote:
             | _> People also complain loudly about Hi-DPI support and
             | tearing with X. I've not noticed either of them being an
             | issue ever. _
             | 
             | Why wouldn't they complain for something that affects them?
             | If you don't have any issues, that's great for you, but
             | that doesn't help those who do in any way, so why do you
             | downplay their issues?
        
           | stevedonovan wrote:
           | I've honestly never noticed the problem, so I never saw the
           | problem with X in the first place.
           | 
           | (It is possible that I have never experienced a truly
           | beautiful desktop, but my eyes are no longer particularly
           | precise enough to operate at modern pixel densities)
        
             | izacus wrote:
             | The whole point of Wayland is that you don't need "precise
             | enough eyes" to comfortably use modern pixel densities.
             | 
             | But for that you need a functional UI scaling system
             | provided by the Waylands rework.
        
           | bgorman wrote:
           | HiDPI support and fractional scaling are simply must-haves
           | for anyone with a computer built after 2011.
        
         | boudin wrote:
         | Switching to wayland is not a small feat, even if libraries
         | like wlroots can reduce significantly the work. XFCE is not a
         | commerical project, it doesn't really care about market share I
         | guess. They have plans to move towards wayland support but
         | those things takes time.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | Does Wayland support network transparent applications yet?
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | yes, but nah.
         | 
         | Yes, wayland is the future, is cool, is better and everything.
         | 
         | And yet, I don't really care about it. I'll stay on Xorg as
         | long as XFCE stays on Xorg. I'll move to wayland as soon as
         | XFCE moves to wayland.
         | 
         | And I know that the Xfce people already have plans for wayland
         | support.
        
         | otikik wrote:
         | > Market share will continue to decline until wayland support
         | is added, no matter how great any new features are.
         | 
         | It might be that they are not interested on "Market share". Or
         | they are but not enough to justify the work. I'm sure they
         | would be glad to accept a pull request.
        
           | biggunz wrote:
           | I had to abandon XFCE due to some issue with aging XFCE4
           | libraries and high cpu problems, switched to KDE Plasma 5.x,.
           | got 50% longer battery lifetime and havent looked back.
           | 
           | They need to focus on these kinds of problems, not on adding
           | new features, otherwise I would have stayed.
        
             | nortonham wrote:
             | what about a DE's libraries would make it drain so much
             | battery life?
        
               | geon wrote:
               | Does xfce do a lot of the graphics in software? That is
               | very inefficient on modern hardware.
        
               | nortonham wrote:
               | I have no idea, I was asking because it's not something I
               | know enough about.
        
         | sph wrote:
         | I would love to try XFCE on Wayland. I used to love that DE,
         | but I haven't been able to stand uncomposited Xorg in a decade
         | (running xcompmgr is not good enough).
         | 
         | Are there concrete plans to migrate to wayland?
         | 
         | EDIT: of course you're getting downvoted because you dared
         | utter the W-word. Come on people, this is not Reddit.
        
           | lottin wrote:
           | XFCE has had its own compositor for ages.
        
           | coldpie wrote:
           | > Are there concrete plans to migrate to wayland?
           | 
           | Yes, of course. Two minutes of searching would have led you
           | here: https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap Come on,
           | sph, this is not Reddit.
           | 
           | > of course you're getting downvoted because you dared utter
           | the W-word. Come on people, this is not Reddit.
           | 
           | I downvoted them because I think it's rude to complain about
           | how others choose to spend their time contributing to open
           | source projects.
        
             | senko wrote:
             | > Two minutes of searching would have led you here:
             | https://wiki.xfce.org/releng/wayland_roadmap
             | 
             | That page says: "For Xfce 4.18, the plan is to ensure our
             | applications are working acceptably on Wayland"
             | 
             | Since this is the 4.18 release and Wayland is not mentioned
             | in the blog post, it's reasonable to ask if that plan is
             | still in place. (I do agree it's up to XFCE maintainers and
             | contributors to set the pace, if any, for Wayland support).
        
               | coldpie wrote:
               | > it's reasonable to ask if that plan is still in place
               | 
               | Do you think it is more likely that that user found the
               | wiki page, performed the same analysis as you, then came
               | back here to ask their question without mentioning any of
               | the research they did; or they just turded out the first
               | question they could think of and did zero research trying
               | to answer it for themselves?
        
         | mpol wrote:
         | I am happy they decided to spend their time first on supporting
         | GTK v3. GTK v2 is disappearing from distro's and the situation
         | was getting urgent. This happened on 4.16 and I suppose a lot
         | more small work for it happened in 4.18.
         | 
         | I am also happy they decided to release more often, allthough
         | once a year turned out to be too short. Supporting applications
         | on Wayland is already a great step. How they decide to build
         | their Wayland compositor is not fully clear, I think it is wise
         | they take the time for that, to build something that they can
         | support and maintain for years to come with a small team of
         | people.
        
         | sylware wrote:
         | Hopefully we get wayland for 4.20. Namely xfce needs its
         | compositor.
        
         | Gordonjcp wrote:
         | Wayland support would be great! Can we see your patches to add
         | it?
        
         | Scramblejams wrote:
         | I see a lot of pushback here but I'll mention why I'm eager for
         | my DE of choice to get Wayland support: Gaming under Xorg with
         | multi-monitors can get very hitchy/teary, and Wayland is
         | focused on smooth frame delivery.
         | 
         | Details if anyone wants it: The game itself may only be running
         | on one monitor, but it doesn't matter, if I have multi monitors
         | active it'll hitch. You can apparently mitigate this somewhat
         | by making sure all your monitors are running the exact same
         | frame rate, but two of my monitors run 59.95Hz while the third
         | runs 59.92Hz, that's not close enough, and I can't seem to get
         | them to something common like 59.00 Hz. I tried disabling two
         | monitors while playing on the third, and it's better, but still
         | far from perfect.
         | 
         | I tried a very recent KDE on Wayland and while gaming felt
         | smooth, its multi-monitor support is very buggy right now --
         | actually the whole DE felt really buggy -- so that's out.
         | 
         | I really wish gamescope could be run on top of Xorg and the
         | game could 'just' run in that...
        
       | type0 wrote:
       | You can combine XFCE with Gala window manager (from Elementary),
       | it isn't perfect but it can look good.
        
         | jasperry wrote:
         | Thank you for this information, I'm interested. Does Gala let
         | you bind keyboard shortcuts for window moving/resizing actions?
         | That's the main reason I'm still using OpenBox with XFCE.
        
       | Blue111 wrote:
       | Not sure when it came out but I'm already using it in Arch. I
       | like to use Nemo file manager instead of Thunar though.
        
       | noir_lord wrote:
       | XFCE was my main desktop for a long time, it's what I'd go back
       | to if Cinnamon ever stopped been the one I use everywhere -
       | Cinnamon in many ways feels like what XFCE would have been if it
       | was started decades later - it also (like XFCE) doesn't screw
       | with the standard desktop UX approach and that's a must for me,
       | 28 years of using basically the same approach makes me feel
       | uncomfortable on anything else.
        
       | osrec wrote:
       | I really enjoy the Linux lightweight desktop environments. Not as
       | whizzy as some of the heavyweight environments, but so much more
       | usable and functional, in my opinion.
       | 
       | I am personally a fan of LXDE. It just gets out of my way and
       | lets me do stuff!
        
         | coldpie wrote:
         | > It just gets out of my way and lets me do stuff!
         | 
         | Ahh, but think of the value our users would get out of us
         | presenting them with Amazon ads in their DE!
        
           | friendlyHornet wrote:
           | > Ahh, but think of the value our users would get out of us
           | presenting them with Amazon ads in their DE
           | 
           | What? Is this in regards to what Cannonical did back in 2013
           | or something else?
           | 
           | If it is about the Cannonical scandal, I am not sure how
           | that's related to DEs, since it was Ubuntu doing it
           | 
           | Or did something similar happen again with a specific DE?
        
             | gfaster wrote:
             | Well, Canonical did put ads in apt[1]
             | 
             | [1]: https://askubuntu.com/q/1434512
        
             | tcmart14 wrote:
             | I remember in maybe 2011/2012, Ubuntu did have embedded ads
             | in their Unity DE.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-
             | ubuntu-1210-am...
        
             | osrec wrote:
             | Not sure exactly what the OP was getting at, but it might
             | be a dig at Windows and the random junk it keeps popping up
             | now and again (news updates and whatnot).
        
             | coldpie wrote:
             | Yeah, that's the direct reference[1] but also more recent
             | junk like ads in Explorer on Windows[2]. They're examples
             | of the DE (maybe the wrong term, sorry) devs getting in the
             | way of users doing what they want to do.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/09/mark-shuttleworth-
             | explai...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/15/22979251/microsoft-
             | file-e...
        
       | JayGuerette wrote:
       | I've used XFCE seemingly forever, at least 20 years.
       | 
       | In recent years I've grown to dislike Thunar and a variety of
       | other things that were mostly GTK issues and some XFCE issues. I
       | was really frustrated with clicking on the system tray and having
       | that click register as a click on the menu that popped up, that
       | just so happened to be 'Quit', and closing the app.
       | 
       | Then I upgraded my computer in a huge jump. Sure, games were
       | faster, but I wouldn't enjoy the results of my investment at any
       | given moment. So I switched to KDE for the first time ever, with
       | animations and sexiness everywhere. It's got it's issues, and
       | it's multi-monitor support is really sub-par, but so many things
       | suddenly work better.
       | 
       | Best example: The flow of clicking on a ZIP to download and
       | ultimately looking at the extacted output in new folder is
       | suddenly effortless and intuitive.
       | 
       | I love the polish of KDE and while I'm tempted to give XFCE
       | another try, the thought of giving up on the effortless sanity of
       | KDE for GTK funk makes me shudder.
        
         | nice_byte wrote:
         | > I love the polish of KDE
         | 
         | this is really funny, because to me, KDE starting from ~4 is
         | the gaudiest thing I've seen.
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | everything after kde2 is absurd. KDE literally twenty years
           | ago was great.
        
           | jraph wrote:
           | Versions 4 and 5 look radically different.
           | 
           | Version 3 was fine. Very fine even for the time.
           | 
           | I didn't really like the default look of version 4. Oxygen
           | had depressing colors, it lacked fineness. I always switched
           | the theme to Fusion, or Cleanlooks, which imitated the
           | Clearlooks GTK theme.
           | 
           | Version 5, with Breeze, is really good. Very elegant. By the
           | way I also tend to find Gnome with the Breeze theme way nicer
           | than with Adwaita (which is already fine).
           | 
           | The only DE I find almost as nice looking as Plasma with the
           | default settings is macOS.
           | 
           | They are also constantly cleaning up the UI and making it
           | simpler, bit by bit.
        
       | biggunz wrote:
       | I loved XFCE4 for probably a decade, but the constant CPU usage
       | bugs made me switch to KDE Plasma, havent looked back.
        
         | djbusby wrote:
         | What bugs? I've used XFCE for 15+ years on desktop, laptop,
         | Intel and AMD. Never seen this issue.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | Er. Don't get me wrong, I like KDE and I like XFCE, but if
         | you're hitting fewer bugs in KDE than XFCE then the least I can
         | say is that your experience is very different from mine. That
         | goes double for resource use, where KDE has made _massive_
         | improvements but last I looked their file indexer was still a
         | huge resource hog.
        
       | iza wrote:
       | > Thunar: It is now possible to add a 'file creation date' column
       | 
       | Finally! Coming from Windows this is something I've always
       | missed.
       | 
       | I know older filesystems didn't support it but EXT4 has been the
       | default for years now.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-15 23:01 UTC)