[HN Gopher] Update on Vulkan video decoding vith open-source AMD...
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Update on Vulkan video decoding vith open-source AMD driver RADV
Author : jlpcsl
Score : 64 points
Date : 2022-12-15 08:54 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (airlied.blogspot.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (airlied.blogspot.com)
| sylware wrote:
| What's going on in radv?
|
| Valve did kick out llvm with aco (which is faaaaaar less worse
| than the former, I wish it was plain and simple C).
|
| But now, I see some stuff (KHR "acceleration structure") pulling
| that horrible glslang compiler from khronos into the SDK.
|
| If hardware specific shaders are to be required for some vulkan
| fancy APIs where no silicium blocks is available, they should be
| written in GCN/RDNA|SPIR-V code with plain and simple C coded
| assembler.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Can someone explain to me what this is, like I'm five years old?
| sounds wrote:
| Vulkan adds new features by first adding an extension for the
| feature.
|
| Then a later version of "mainline Vulkan" will upgrade those
| optional extensions to include them in the non-optional API.
| Even then, the feature underneath it is often optional, but the
| API to support it is built in, leaving it up to the app to
| check some feature bits before using it.
|
| Specifically the vulkan extensions that Dave Airlie has
| implemented for AMD GPUs from TONGA to NAVI2x are:
| VK_KHR_video_queue VK_KHR_video_decode_queue
| VK_EXT_video_decode_h264 VK_EXT_video_decode_h265
|
| But he notes that the implementation work isn't done. It's just
| getting started.
| andrewstuart wrote:
| Can someone explain to me what this is, like I'm five years
| old?
| DiabloD3 wrote:
| Programmers have many secret languages they talk to
| computers with. This is about a secret language that allows
| computers to make pretty things on your screen, being used
| to put video on there too.
| fulafel wrote:
| It's a someone's computer program that can make the battery
| last longer when watching videos, when it they finish it.
| fulafel wrote:
| What's this doing? Is it software-decoding-on-GPU using GPU
| compute or is it using the hw video codec functionality through
| the Vulkan API?
| galad87 wrote:
| It's an API to access the HW decoders and encoders on the GPU
| or on some other hardware.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Mad props to the dev(s) working on this, you're doing God's work
| mate.
|
| I feel bummed by this whole Linux 'we-removed-codecs' situation,
| as AMD users were the only ones to feel this axing, despite the
| community hammering how they're the best for Linux compatibility,
| and ironically, Intel and Nvidia users were not affected by this
| decision.
| chronogram wrote:
| I'm out of the loop, where can I find background information?
| ho_schi wrote:
| https://linuxiac.com/fedora-and-opensuse-are-dropping-
| suppor...
|
| It is only affecting Fedora and openSuse. Not affected are
| Arch, Gentoo, Ubuntu and Debian. * The
| hardware-acceleration is within the hardware and not in
| software - that is why it is named *hardware acceleration*.
| Fedoras decision doesn't make sense. * In Europe you
| cannot patent software - because you cannot patent logic.
| Sometimes software-patents are granted because the patent
| system is dysfunctional but these patents get revoked when
| challenged. * I doubt you can even defend a
| "software-patent" in America if challenged. * RedHat
| is weakening its position of Fedora (and of Linux)
| historically by similar decisions. Fedora is working well on
| desktops and laptops. But it is not acceptable for end-users
| to add extra repositories from RPMFUSION to get basic
| features working. The success of Canonicals Ubuntu is
| building up on this. * They're not removing it for
| Fedora <= 36. Removing features is evil. Ff Fedora is certain
| about their point-of-view they had to remove it, too?
|
| Bonus - Qualcomm tries to attack AV1:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33638975
|
| I think someone within the AOM needs to tell Qualcomm in
| polite words that another decade of missing hardware-
| acceleration and patent-trolling is not acceptable.
|
| If you're worried about software-patents. I recommend moving
| the legal domicile and hosting servers to Europe. I'm sorry
| America but your mistake. The original intent of the patent
| system is proper documentation for the public. Instead it is
| used for hindering other upon improving existing ideas for
| decades. And lawsuits.
|
| PS: Fedora is working excellent on laptops on desktops. While
| I prefer Arch personally, I do install Fedora on every
| computer of a "normal" person which is not within IT. It just
| works. Fedora is doing a good. But only if I add RPMFUSION
| first.
| LinAGKar wrote:
| Why is it legal to ship it in intel-media-driver and not in
| Mesa?
| ladyanita22 wrote:
| Canonical is weakening their position in the Linux world
| with snaps.
|
| Fedora's foundations and technology are the best. I hate
| the RPMFusion situation, don't get me wrong, but it's the
| cleanest, most solid and best distro out there.
| ho_schi wrote:
| Canonical? * Unity - Failed against
| GNOME and Gtk * Mir - Failed against Wayland
| * Upstart - Failed against Systemd * Snap -
| Currently in fight against Flatpak
|
| Canonical's help and cooperation is appreciated. Since
| they returned to GNOME a lot of things got improved for
| all! I've the impression Canonical is trying to push a
| always an own solution which is either inferior, not
| backed by community or follows a dark-pattern (Snap
| server is closed-source). I'm afraid Ubuntu-Phone
| could've been a success if they searched cooperation with
| Red Hat, Purism or Jolla. Again...no :(
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Removing support for those particular codecs isn't the end
| of the world. YouTube, Disney, Netflix, Prime Video (ie.
| the largest video streaming sites) all use open codecs and
| thus are unaffected by Fedora/Suse's decision.
| ho_schi wrote:
| I'm afraid all of them use H264 or H265 as baseline, AV1
| only when advertised. AV1 is only available hardware-
| accelerated on the newest devices (AMD >= RNDA2, Intel >=
| Xe, Nvidia >= Ampere) from 2020. Googles Pixel 6 is one
| of the first phones with AV1. Software support requires
| the CPU to do the work and drains the battery.
| tpush wrote:
| Don't know about the others, but at least YouTube also
| uses VP9, which is open and capable of being hardware
| decoded by most devices.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| YouTube and Netflix use VP9...
| hedora wrote:
| The hardware codec support removal is a bone headed
| decision. The first sale doctrine (among other things) says
| that if you sell a patented device, you are implicitly
| selling a transferrable patent license that allows use of
| that one physical device.
|
| So, there are two possibilities for patent infringement:
|
| 1) AMD licensed a patent that allows them to write software
| that accesses hardware capabilities using software drivers.
| This is already ludicrous, but the US patent system is in
| play. Furthermore, the third party patent holder is
| asserting that AMD's license only applies to Windows
| drivers.
|
| 2) AMD's hardware violates a third party patent.
|
| In both cases, this is AMD's problem, not the Linux
| distribution's. Also, no one is claiming either of the
| above things have happened.
|
| (Not a lawyer, but this is basic IP law.)
| moloch-hai wrote:
| It would be AMD's problem, but US patient law lets them
| sue anybody downstream too. Another failing.
| ladyanita22 wrote:
| Maybe the issue doesn't have to do with winning or losing
| the case, but with being sued at all (which implies some
| defense costs, of course)
| eqvinox wrote:
| should be this I believe: https://lwn.net/Articles/910978/
|
| [Ed.] Somewhat reminiscent of the crypto export restrictions
| around the millennium -- with software patents being invalid
| in the EU (and a bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would
| hinder the inclusion of these features in software
| distributed there...
|
| [Ed. 2] Really reminiscent... it's only few jurisdictions
| where software patents are valid to a large degree - I found
| only the US, South Korea, and Armenia. Most other countries
| have significant hurdles or outright do not accept software
| patents.
| jcranmer wrote:
| > with software patents being invalid in the EU (and a
| bunch of other jurisdictions), nothing would hinder the
| inclusion of these features in software distributed there
|
| I know the EU supposedly bans software patents, but looking
| at the patent pool for H.265, there's an awful lot of EU
| patents in there: https://www.mpegla.com/wp-
| content/uploads/hevc-att1.pdf.
| jacooper wrote:
| I still have yet to get video encoding ever working on fedora
| with chromium, even with the mesa driver including closed
| codecs. It just never works, it always uses the CPU for some
| reason.
|
| And thats with AMD, Nvidia is a lost cause.
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(page generated 2022-12-15 23:02 UTC)