[HN Gopher] Paul Le Roux is Satoshi?
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Paul Le Roux is Satoshi?
        
       Author : kvathupo
       Score  : 99 points
       Date   : 2022-12-13 21:16 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (martinshkreli.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (martinshkreli.substack.com)
        
       | seqizz wrote:
       | Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the
       | word "no" - Betteridge's law of headlines
        
       | Octokiddie wrote:
       | Summary: a private key associated with the very first non-
       | coinbase transaction in Bitcoin appears to have signed a message
       | making the claim in the title.
       | 
       | For those downplaying the claim based on the source, this is
       | irrelevant. The signature and the public key are all that are
       | needed. The author is irrelevant to verification, although he
       | probably has an interesting story to tell about how he came about
       | this message and signature.
       | 
       | The payment was locked to this address:
       | 
       | 1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3
       | 
       | The first payment can be viewed here:
       | 
       | https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/f4184fc596403b9d638783cf57...
       | 
       | You can see that this payment was included in block 170. The
       | network produces ~144 blocks/day. So this transaction occurred
       | almost at the launch of the network.
       | 
       | Hal Finney has claimed, without proof AFAIK, that this payment
       | was made by Satoshi to him:
       | 
       | https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.0
       | 
       | The implication is that a private key known by Finney signed the
       | message claiming that Satoshi was Paul Le Roux. The latter was
       | the subject of a piece speculating that he was Satsoshi:
       | 
       | https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-created-by-this-inte...
       | 
       | This doesn't necessarily mean that Finney was involved. You can
       | browse the transaction history associated with the address here:
       | 
       | https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwx...
       | 
       | As you can see, a signed transaction was published as late as
       | 2018. Finney died in 2014.
       | 
       | So there are a few possibilities for what's going on, including:
       | 
       | 1. Finney is not dead.
       | 
       | 2. Finney's private key was leaked to someone who signed the
       | message.
       | 
       | 3. secp256k1 cryptography (the kind used for Bitcoin signatures)
       | is now broken.
       | 
       | 4. Finney signed the message sometime before he died.
       | 
       | Given that few outside of Bitcoin know about Finney's legendary
       | status, (3) seems unlikely because the attacker could have just
       | signed with the private key for the genesis block.
       | 
       | This leaves (1) and (2), and (4). I'm doubtful about (1). Finney
       | suffered from a horrible, fatal disease and it was obvious in the
       | interviews he gave.
       | 
       | The most likely explanations are (2) and (4) IMO. The presence of
       | the transactions signed after Finney's death is consistent with
       | (2).
       | 
       | When a Bitcoin payment is spent, the private key often has little
       | monetary value (but a lot of privacy value). So the cryptographic
       | material encoding it might be treated in ways allowing it to be
       | used by others.
       | 
       | Then again, it's possible that Finney signed the message, later
       | died, and his private key was leaked.
       | 
       | However, you slice it, this is not clear cut. There are various
       | kinds of proof that would make it more so, but AFAICT, they have
       | not yet surfaced.
        
       | 323 wrote:
       | Was Paul Le Roux known before he was arrested? As in, is it
       | possible that Satoshi tried to create a fake trail?
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Does this make all his historic bitcoins property of the state
       | for crimes committed? That's a lot of public debt to retire.
        
         | kvathupo wrote:
         | Assuming no shenanigans, there is a layer of deniability since
         | the message was made from Hal Finney's address and private key,
         | i.e. Finney is lying.
        
           | ggm wrote:
           | Hal Finney is dead, his keys were used in 2017 after he died
           | in 2014.
           | 
           | Somebody knows his keys == nothing said to have been done by
           | his key can be demonstrably proved to be him, even back to
           | the beginning: how do we know when his private key was
           | compromised?
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | Craig Wright is pulling his hair out rn
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | For those who don't know:
         | 
         | > Craig Steven Wright (born October 1970)[1] is an Australian
         | computer scientist and businessman. He has publicly claimed to
         | be the main part of the team that created bitcoin, and the
         | identity behind the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto. These claims
         | are regarded as false by much of the media and the
         | cryptocurrency community.
         | 
         | source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Steven_Wright
        
           | notacop31337 wrote:
           | Please don't call him Australian, we don't want him.
        
       | mmastrac wrote:
       | > Paul Le Roux operated under numerous pseudonyms:
       | 
       | > Paul Solotshi Calder Le Roux, backed with a Congolese
       | diplomatic passport[4]
       | 
       | Interesting... Solotshi
       | 
       | This is a good read: https://www.wired.com/story/was-bitcoin-
       | created-by-this-inte...
        
       | drclau wrote:
       | In case you wonder who Paul Le Roux is, here's the Wikipedia page
       | [0] and what I believe is the original investigation by Evan
       | Ratliff [1].
       | 
       | [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Le_Roux
       | 
       | [1]: https://magazine.atavist.com/the-mastermind/
        
         | kevinmchugh wrote:
         | Ratliff says in his book that he could find no evidence that Le
         | Roux had any connection to Bitcoin, though many people suspect
         | him
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | And from the above:
         | 
         | > Le Roux was arrested on 26 September 2012 for conspiracy to
         | import narcotics into the United States, and agreed to
         | cooperate with authorities in exchange for a lesser sentence
         | and immunity to any crimes he might admit to later. He
         | subsequently admitted to arranging or participating in seven
         | murders, carried out as part of an extensive illegal business
         | empire.
         | 
         | > Le Roux was sentenced to 25 years in prison in June 2020.
        
           | drclau wrote:
           | It's worth sharing the entire paragraph:
           | 
           | On 12 June 2020, Le Roux was sentenced to 25 years in prison.
           | According to the presiding judge, Ronnie Abrams, "the scope
           | and severity of Mr. Le Roux's criminal conduct is nothing
           | short of breathtaking. I have before me a man who has engaged
           | in conduct in keeping with the villain in a James Bond
           | movie." However, she also added that the sentence reflected
           | Le Roux's cooperation and the danger he faced.
        
         | macjohnmcc wrote:
         | I worked with Paul before he went down the path of the
         | criminal. He seemed really smart too bad he went bad. This
         | would be in 1991 or 1992. I also worked with one of the
         | programmers caught as part of the Madoff 5. I'm hoping that is
         | all of my brushes with people who go bad.
        
           | nothrowaways wrote:
           | From your experience with him, do you think he has the
           | academic background to write the Bitcoin paper?
        
       | simplyinfinity wrote:
       | After some digging I found this:
       | 
       | 1) The address that was used to send this message is not the
       | first address that the genesis(the first "mined") block sent
       | money to.
       | 
       | 2) The "genesis"/Satoshi address has been used through the years
       | a lot
       | 
       | 3) The "Paul le Roux" address is far less active
       | 
       | 4) this transaction was made 9 days after the first block was
       | mined
       | 
       | My conclusion here is: Paul le Roux _MIGHT_ be Satoshi, but
       | unlikely, more like very early adopter who either knew Finney,
       | Satoshi or both. But neither can be said with 100% certainty.
        
         | lostmsu wrote:
         | 5) the transaction in question does not contain the message in
         | the post. The message was just signed by the receiver's key,
         | whose current owner is unknown.
        
       | orangepurple wrote:
       | Satoshi is a German or Swiss. Nobody in the world has GMX email
       | addresses except the Germans and the Swiss.
        
         | fishnchips wrote:
         | Very much not true, I'm neither :)
        
         | ratg13 wrote:
         | I do this sort of thing to mask my identity.
         | 
         | GMX, yandex, I've used them all without living in the countries
         | they call home.
         | 
         | In the early 2000s I was probably the primary user of
         | britneyspearsemail.com despite not caring about this celebrity
         | at all.
        
         | kxr wrote:
         | I have a GMX account and I'm neither. A few decades back they
         | were one of the few free email providers offering POP3 access.
        
         | sph wrote:
         | I'm pretty sure created a gmx.de account around the turn of the
         | Millennium and I'm not from a German speaking country. They had
         | an email service and I needed an email.
         | 
         | The problem with absolute statements is that they always get it
         | wrong.
        
           | Lutzb wrote:
           | The interesting thing is that satoshi was using a gmx.com
           | address, emphasis on the .com. Those were only available to
           | paying customers of GMX.de.
        
             | elkos wrote:
             | So GMX might know who Satoshi is but... GDPR?
        
         | constantcrying wrote:
         | >Nobody in the world has GMX email addresses except the Germans
         | and the Swiss.
         | 
         | You can just _make_ one, right?
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | guerrilla wrote:
         | I'm neither and I did, so...
        
       | frank_bb wrote:
        
       | jdthedisciple wrote:
       | _1. 1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3 is Hal 's address, so that
       | means the message was written by someone with Hal's private key
       | (not from Satoshi's).
       | 
       | 2. Hal died 2014, that address last sent btc in 2017, so someone
       | else (estate?) had access to the private key. I wouldn't be
       | surprised if the private key got leaked (maybe even sold), so
       | it's entirely possible that someone else signed that message (and
       | recently at that).
       | 
       | 3. Not sure if there's evidence that Hal even knew who satoshi
       | was
       | 
       | But yeah, crazy... I verified the message too, I just don't think
       | it's conclusive evidence of who satoshi is/was_
       | 
       | Interesting and important note from playerTwo in the comments.
        
       | kvathupo wrote:
       | Per the link, the signature corresponding to the address and
       | message is valid. The address belongs to Hal Finney, and the
       | message implies Satoshi (who sent him the initial btc) is Paul Le
       | Roux. Any insights?
        
       | raingrove wrote:
       | 1. The signature was created using a private key that corresponds
       | to the address "1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3".
       | 
       | 2. 1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3 is Hal Finney's (Not
       | Satoshi's) address.
       | 
       | 3. Hal Finney passed away in 2014.
       | 
       | 4. Some coins that belonged to that address were spent in 2017.
       | [1]
       | 
       | It appears that someone else (definitely not Hal) has the private
       | key to that address.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/70ec308460a38f6de25f89c6ed...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mjfl wrote:
         | > It appears that someone else (definitely not Hal) has the
         | private key to that address.
         | 
         | So Paul le Roux, by the message?
         | 
         | > 1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3 is Hal Finney's (Not
         | Satoshi's) address.
         | 
         | Where do you get this?
         | 
         | EDIT: I am proposing not that Paul LeRoux is Satoshi, but that
         | he is in possession of Hal's key, and produced that signature
         | as a troll.
        
           | raingrove wrote:
           | I would believe it if the signature came from one of
           | Satoshi's addresses, but this is not it.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | jaycroft wrote:
           | No, that particular message could be created by anyone
           | (including people who are not Paul le Roux), who has the key
           | to the 1Q2 address, at any time, past or present.
           | 
           | All we have to go on right now is that someone knows the
           | private key that corresponds to the 1Q2 address and used it
           | sometime before the last hour to generate a hash of a message
           | that says that Paul le Roux sent bitcoin to Hal Finney.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | Wouldn't it be likely that his wife or a close friend has the
         | private key?
        
         | tripplyons wrote:
         | I see. Are you implying whoever has access to Hal's wallet
         | could have produced this signature after his death?
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | exactly. this has nothing to do with proving it is Santoshi,
           | nor is it a hash collision.
           | 
           | All it means is multiple people have Hal's private key and
           | somehow either Martin is one of them, or he was told to post
           | this message.
        
           | rosnd wrote:
           | That's correct.
        
       | Niksko wrote:
       | This just feels like another entry in a long list of supposed
       | proofs of who Satoshi is, which is missing detail (almost
       | certainly by design) and which could have many other plausible
       | explanations. The most obvious of which is that a private key
       | leaked.
        
         | tripplyons wrote:
         | It could also be that Hal Finney lied about who it was, or was
         | deceived about who it was. I find those to be plausible as
         | well.
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | why would it take so long to discover this?
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | Because cryptography.
         | 
         | It's impossible to brute-force "decrypt" this message, you need
         | to know it before hand.
         | 
         | More technically: you need to generate a pre-image of the
         | sha-256 hash.
        
           | tripplyons wrote:
           | No one broke any cryptography in this situation.
        
             | 323 wrote:
             | Which is exactly the point why we didn't find out about
             | this until someone leaked it.
        
       | 323 wrote:
       | Anyone know where he got this info? Is there a previous source?
        
         | ElijahLynn wrote:
         | I don't know but Martin's claim just showed up on the Wikipedia
         | page > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Le_Roux
         | 
         | > On December 13, 2022, Martin Shkreli alleged that a message
         | connected to a January 12, 2009 transaction sent to the Bitcoin
         | wallet belonging to Hal Finney, who received the first ever
         | Bitcoin transfer, revealed Le Roux as being the sender.[44]
        
       | retrac wrote:
       | Hal Finney passed away in 2014. But the address has been active
       | since:
       | https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwx...
       | 
       | I see four possibilities:
       | 
       | * An absurdly elaborate conspiracy. (This is _always_ a
       | possibility.)
       | 
       | * Ghosts can do cryptography.
       | 
       | * ECDSA is cracked.
       | 
       | * Someone else has a copy Finney's key.
       | 
       | Occam's razor: spectral signatures!
        
         | nkzd wrote:
         | I am not sure I understand, how could this be a conspiracy?
        
           | stainablesteel wrote:
           | its plausibly debatable
           | 
           | someone who isnt paul le roux left their signature saying it
           | was paul le roux, in case it ends up being read one day
        
           | retrac wrote:
           | Sorry, I was being somewhat sarcastic and it misfired. The
           | only real option is the last one. The key is most likely
           | compromised.
        
         | retrac wrote:
         | Oof. Apparently my irreverent tone was not well-received.
         | 
         | I'll be more sober about it. A cryptographic hash is not proof
         | that data was signed by a particular individual, unless you
         | know for certain that individual is the only person who has the
         | key. That is a hard standard to meet with a dead man when the
         | key has demonstrably been used after his death. That
         | transaction in 2017 means that someone besides Finney simply
         | must know Finney's key. Anything signed by this key cannot be
         | trusted to have come from Finney.
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | Keys are just keys and are not tied to a person's identity.
           | When can they ever be trusted to come from a single person?
        
       | inasio wrote:
       | Came expecting a long convoluted argument, Craig Wright-style,
       | but this is like one of those short papers that have the proof in
       | the abstract.
        
         | lostmsu wrote:
         | It does not have a proof though.
        
       | hokkos wrote:
       | previous HN discussion : New Evidence Suggests Satoshi Nakamoto
       | Is Paul Le Roux - June 6, 2019
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20115607
        
       | ElijahLynn wrote:
       | How did Martin Shkreli figure that out?
        
         | dibt wrote:
         | It's not an original idea. It was popularized a few years ago
         | by Evan Ratliff, author of a book about Paul Le Roux, 'The
         | Mastermind'
         | 
         | Convenient for the author to discover the link to Le Roux. Then
         | talk about it on podcasts while promoting his book, and have
         | articles written about him.
         | 
         | All Shkreli does is promote himself to get eyes on whatever
         | he's doing next. You can't ignore the incentives. It's
         | difficult to prove who Satoshi is or is not. Craig Wright made
         | a succesful career out of it.
         | 
         | Also, Shkreli has been critical of Bitcoin. Picking Le Roux, a
         | criminal, as Satoshi helps to paint Bitcoin in a bad light.
        
           | ElijahLynn wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing that important context and perspective.
        
           | ElijahLynn wrote:
           | Also, my question means: How did he figure out how to decrypt
           | that hash into the plain text message?
        
             | dibt wrote:
             | Someone gave him the signature to verify the hash.
             | 
             | He explains it during this stream here:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjE4dEX2z9E
             | 
             | You can just watch the first 10-ish minutes to get the
             | gist.
             | 
             | He gets the same push back he's getting here. Still
             | confidently says "Paul Le Roux is Satoshi."
        
           | lostmsu wrote:
           | The question is where did he get the signature from?
        
             | dibt wrote:
             | Someone gave him the signature to verify the hash.
             | 
             | He explains it during this stream here:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjE4dEX2z9E
             | 
             | Someone else suggested he could have bought the signature.
             | It wouldn't surprise me.
        
           | kevinmchugh wrote:
           | Ratliff in the book said a lot of people suggested this to
           | him, and he never found any evidence of it.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | someone told him . likely someone who knows hal
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | reactspa wrote:
       | Could someone please clarify the connection between the wallet:
       | 
       | 1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3
       | 
       | And the signature:
       | 
       | HM7vpPSUbNsfDHRX6gv8xxWcVNHEc/3pOk0YrVehaGoUdbWizznfzOdELkLd1EjSX
       | sW1oE5vHAkNAPzrAVzhuoI=
       | 
       |  _how do we know that the two are connected?_ (I 'm guessing one
       | of them hashes to the other.)
        
         | spiorf wrote:
         | When you run signature verification on that text with that
         | signature and that address, it checks out. It wouldn't
         | otherwise. The text links the two.
        
         | cmatthias wrote:
         | I know next to nothing about the internals of bitcoin, but
         | based on a high-level understanding of public key cryptography:
         | 
         | - 1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3 is the wallet address but
         | can also be thought of as a public key. The owner of the wallet
         | also has a private key corresponding to that public key.
         | 
         | - HM7vpPSUbNsfDHRX6gv8xx...[etc] is a cryptographic signature
         | generated by signing an arbitrary message using a private key.
         | To generate the signature, you need the plain text of the
         | message, and a private key. To "verify" the signature (i.e.,
         | confirm that it was generated by the private key you expect),
         | you only need the message and the public key (or the wallet
         | address, in this case).
         | 
         | - Shkreli claims (and it has indeed been confirmed) that the
         | signature he posted is valid for the message and the wallet
         | address. In other words, someone in possession of the private
         | key for the wallet in question, has signed the message given
         | using that private key.
         | 
         | What I don't understand is where the signature came from -- I
         | do see a Jan 2009 transaction involving that address on various
         | blockchain explorers, but that particular signature is nowhere
         | to be found. This could absolutely just be me not understanding
         | how all of this works, but in order for this to be "really big
         | news" I think you'd have to show proof that the signature given
         | was posted with the transaction back in 2009. Otherwise, it
         | just means that Hal Finney's wallet is compromised and someone
         | has been signing random messages with it.
        
           | paulpauper wrote:
           | You can sign a message without broadcasting it . This message
           | could have been created an hour ago for all we know.
        
           | kxr wrote:
           | > What I don't understand is where the signature came from --
           | I do see a Jan 2009 transaction involving that address on
           | various blockchain explorers, but that particular signature
           | is nowhere to be found. This could absolutely just be me not
           | understanding how all of this works, but in order for this to
           | be "really big news" I think you'd have to show proof that
           | the signature given was posted with the transaction back in
           | 2009. Otherwise, it just means that Hal Finney's wallet is
           | compromised and someone has been signing random messages with
           | it.
           | 
           | This.
        
             | jaycroft wrote:
             | Furthermore we know that the wallet spent coins in 2017,
             | three years after Hal's death. Someone other than Hal had
             | (has?) access to the private key for that address.
        
           | reactspa wrote:
           | However, I couldn't find this signature:
           | 
           | HM7vpPSUbNsfDHRX6gv8xxWcVNHEc/3pOk0YrVehaGoUdbWizznfzOdELkLd1
           | EjSXsW1oE5vHAkNAPzrAVzhuoI=
           | 
           | ... anywhere on the blockchain:
           | 
           | https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/search?search=HM7vpPSUbN.
           | ..
           | 
           | Why not?
           | 
           |  _Update: I get it now. It doesn 't have to have been on the
           | blockchain. It's just a message that was signed with a
           | private key, and using Hal Finney's public key (wallet
           | address), the message, and the message signature, we can
           | confirm that it was signed by Hal Finney's private key._
        
         | tripplyons wrote:
         | You can verify the signature along with the public key and the
         | message: https://www.bitcoin.com/tools/verify-message/
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | Can someone independently verify the decryption claim here?
       | 
       | Should I interpret this to mean that either bitcoin signatures
       | can be attacked via hash collisions, or that they're not actually
       | cryptographically secure, given enough time and computing
       | resources? Either seems bad.
        
         | maherbeg wrote:
         | I think it would be highly unlikely to create a hash collision
         | that is so specific like this.
        
         | cmatthias wrote:
         | You can verify yourself here: https://reinproject.org/bitcoin-
         | signature-tool/
         | 
         | Use the Bitcoin-QT tab, and don't include the "---- BEGIN" and
         | "---- END" comment lines. It checks out.
        
           | anigbrowl wrote:
           | OK (and thanks)...so how should I interpret this?
           | 
           | As in, how is it possible to decrypt an encrypted signature,
           | and what does that mean for the security of cryptocurrency?
        
             | cmatthias wrote:
             | Unless I'm grossly mistaken, it seems Shkreli doesn't
             | understand the basics of cryptography because he's using
             | incorrect terminology here.
             | 
             | The signature isn't encrypted at all, it's just a piece of
             | data (a hash, if you will) that was generated using the
             | private key associated with the wallet in question.
             | 
             | In order to generate the signature, you need to have a
             | message to sign, and a private key. All Shkreli has shown
             | is that the signature he posted is valid for the given
             | message and the wallet (which is in fact an old wallet of
             | Hal Finney's). I've posted elsewhere in this thread about
             | this, but so far I can't find any evidence that the
             | signature he posted actually appears in the blockchain
             | associated with that January 2009 transaction. Until we
             | have proof of that, the most likely alternative explanation
             | is that the wallet's key is compromised and someone is
             | signing random messages with it that say whatever they
             | want.
        
               | hcs wrote:
               | A public key signature works by encrypting the hash with
               | the private key, to verify you decrypt the hash with the
               | pubic key and check it against your own hash of the
               | payload.
               | 
               | Edit: No argument with your second point, just pointing
               | out the mechanism does involve the signature being an
               | encrypted form of a plaintext hash/message digest.
        
               | cmatthias wrote:
               | Thanks for the clarification! I didn't explain myself
               | well at all, but what I was getting at was that Shkreli
               | claims the sig "decrypts to" the message given, when it
               | does nothing of the sort.
        
               | paulpauper wrote:
               | right. it has nothing to do with being published to the
               | blockchain.
               | 
               | for example:
               | 
               | HB2dakxE7SgbuSQX6qQYByHkx3pTG0Tx2ymb8mVd2Bg6E+4Qk7O2/E/Bi
               | E9sjcLKp0rF+m3U0YHwI1Yv8Gjvjw0=
               | 
               | public:
               | 
               | 1HZwkjkeaoZfTSaJxDw6aKkxp45agDiEzN
               | 
               | message: hackernews
        
           | ElijahLynn wrote:
           | Thanks, I did what you said and it worked.
           | 
           | I used the Bitcoin-QT tab and filled out the three fields and
           | got a green message at the top of the page that said "Message
           | verified to be from 1Q2TWHE3GMdB6BZKafqwxXtWAWgFt5Jvm3"
        
       | thisisnotapipe wrote:
       | The most credible candidate is someone who was very familiar with
       | and keen on its technology yet did not engage publicly in the
       | first few years [1].
       | 
       | [1] https://chainbulletin.com/the-unmasking-satoshi-aftermath
        
       | cmatthias wrote:
       | Can someone who knows more than me about the internals of bitcoin
       | help me understand:
       | 
       | 1) Is there a place on a blockchain explorer somewhere where I
       | could find the signature that Shkreli has posted? I tried looking
       | up the wallet address and found the transaction from Jan 2009,
       | but I don't see that signature anywhere.
       | 
       | 2) The reason I ask the first question is that I believe that if
       | the private key is compromised, then whoever has it could have
       | generated a new signature corresponding to that wallet address
       | and any arbitrary message, correct? So if Shkreli is in
       | possession of the private key, he could just be banking on people
       | not actually verifying that the signature he posted appears on
       | the blockchain?
        
         | tripplyons wrote:
         | 1) Not all signatures are on chain. All that is needed is to
         | post the signature somewhere and verify it with the message and
         | public key. 2) Whoever has the private key can produce the
         | signature, and the signature can only be produced by someone
         | who has the private key (assuming the cryptography is secure)
        
           | cmatthias wrote:
           | I realize not all signatures are on the chain, that's obvious
           | if you know what a signature is. That's why I'm asking
           | whether it appears on the chain. :)
           | 
           | If it appears somewhere associated with that transaction,
           | that's pretty strong evidence that Shkreli is correct.
           | 
           | If it does not appear on chain at all, then Shkreli is wrong
           | and his post proves nothing about the identity of Satoshi.
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | Your reaction was my reaction, for what it's worth. It seems
         | like everyone more or less is suspecting the same thing.
         | (Private key leaked, no way to backdate the hash, therefore
         | this proof isn't as newsworthy as it seems.)
         | 
         | On the other hand, if it does appear somewhere in the
         | blockchain, it's a pretty big scoop.
        
       | lizardactivist wrote:
       | I've always believed it is Nick Szabo.
        
         | yucky wrote:
         | Of the non-government agency guesses, this one would be the
         | most credible if not for one thing - not even Szabo could sit
         | on $50 Billion in bitcoin and just casually never spend it. The
         | NSA is the most credible culprit as Bitcoin creator.
         | 
         | However, I do think Nick Szabo is the mysterious "Nicolas van
         | Saberhagen" creator of Monero. Besides, Monero aligns more with
         | his ideology. Bitcoin is supremely traceable and a handy tool
         | for government. Monero, not so much.
        
       | sschueller wrote:
       | Would also explain why Satoshi went silent since the guy is
       | sitting in federal prison.
       | 
       | When is he getting out? I would sell my BTC before he can move
       | all those coins.
       | 
       | It would be in the interest of the Bitcoin community to agree on
       | a fork to start burning those large wallets that are know to
       | belong to Satoshi ensuring future stability.
        
         | urmish wrote:
         | Martin has been out for a few months now.
        
           | qeternity wrote:
           | GP is talking about Le Roux, who is in prison.
        
           | akeck wrote:
           | Not Martin, Le Roux. I think he's still being held by the
           | U.S. Feds.
        
         | jjulius wrote:
         | >Would also explain why Satoshi went silent since the guy is
         | sitting in federal prison.
         | 
         | A cursory Google suggests that Satoshi's last communication was
         | on April 26, 2011. Paul Le Roux was arrested on September 25th,
         | 2012.
        
         | matthoiland wrote:
         | "Le Roux was sentenced to 25 years in prison in June 2020" [1]
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Le_Roux
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | ethanbond wrote:
         | Trying to crowdsource Treasury-style monetary enforcement, are
         | we?
        
         | ratg13 wrote:
         | I don't think administratively destroying wallets on the
         | blockchain is going to add any trust into the system .. quite
         | the opposite.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rOOb85 wrote:
       | If this is true, wow.
       | 
       | I've read about Paul Le Roux before as he is likely the person
       | behind Trucrypt.
       | 
       | While he's a criminal, if he really created Truecrypt and Bitcoin
       | and also ran an international drug/gun running operation...I'm
       | impressed. I think this dude's story could make a awesome
       | book/movie some day...
        
         | cocacola1 wrote:
         | Here's at least one book on him: _The Mastermind: Drugs.
         | Empire. Murder. Betrayal._ by Evan Ratliff.
         | 
         | Another is: _Hunting LeRoux: The Inside Story of the DEA
         | Takedown of a Criminal Genius and His Empire_ by Elaine
         | Shannon.
         | 
         | Michael Mann has the rights to turn _Hunting LeRoux_ into a
         | film. He did _Heat_ , _Ali_ and _Collateral_ (probably one of
         | my favorite movies). Unfortunately, he also did _Blackhat_.
        
           | rOOb85 wrote:
           | Ha, awesome. I should have googled for books/movies first.
           | 
           | Thanks for the info!
        
         | nothrowaways wrote:
         | Maybe he killed Satoshi and extorted the keys, in reverse
         | order.
        
           | inanutshellus wrote:
           | what you did there, I see.
        
         | jdmoreira wrote:
         | The book exists. It's named "The Mastermind". It's wild, really
         | wild!
        
           | dibt wrote:
           | Also, the author of that book brought up the link to Satoshi.
           | It's in his interest for the idea to be out there. Nobody
           | would be looking up this book today, otherwise.
        
           | rOOb85 wrote:
           | Awesome, thanks for the info!
        
         | khazhoux wrote:
         | suggest you read his wikipedia entry. It's sickening.
        
       | jshchnz wrote:
       | I'm honestly not sure there could be a more unreliable source for
       | this
        
         | blueside wrote:
         | Shkreli is live streaming this right now and somebody on his
         | voice chat just said to him "No offense Martin, but you're
         | probably the last person I would go to if I had
         | incontrovertible evidence of Satoshi's identity"
         | 
         | For all the horrendous shit that this Shkreli guy is known for,
         | I always think of his Microsoft Excel skills first.
        
           | omgomgomgomg wrote:
           | I always wonder why people are so impressed about his excel
           | skills.
           | 
           | I have seen many people in BI being much better. He just
           | knows his shortcuts and pivot tables, this is standard stuff.
           | 
           | And the mayor discipline, if anything, are customized macros
           | which run cross device for a whole department, like opening
           | one reports, filtering the data, creating a new file with a
           | date stamp etc and sending reports and stats.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | 323 wrote:
         | The cryptography checks out. The source is irrelevant, might as
         | well be from Trump.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | avn2109 wrote:
         | Do you rate SBF as a source more or less credible than Shkreli?
        
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