[HN Gopher] "What if your entire worldview was just because of n...
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       "What if your entire worldview was just because of near-zero
       interest rates?"
        
       Author : antonomon
       Score  : 4 points
       Date   : 2022-12-11 19:09 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (novum.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (novum.substack.com)
        
       | dangus wrote:
       | I think the article brings up too many separate concepts without
       | sufficiently tying them together.
       | 
       | One of the most basic concepts you have to accept to agree with
       | the premise of the article is that the Fed kept interest rates
       | low to transfer wealth to the wealthy.
       | 
       | > After the Great Recession, the Federal Reserve instituted a
       | zero or near-zero interest rate regime. The philosophy behind it
       | was simple:
       | 
       | > > The Fed's "strong and creative measures" would inflate stock
       | prices, which would lead those holding stocks to feel wealthier
       | and more confident, and then they'd spend a little more, and some
       | droplets of this might trickle down to the people that are
       | working in the real economy.5
       | 
       | Of note is the fact that the citation for this quote is some
       | random dude Wolf Richter's website. The guy's a former car
       | dealership manager, and that's the extent of his financial
       | background.
       | 
       | A much less sinister and simpler explanation exists: high
       | inflation rates are bad for pretty much the entire economy
       | regardless of level of wealth. We already saw this in action in
       | the 1970s.
       | 
       | I also take issue with a lot of the numbered points in the
       | article. These points seem to avoid the more nuanced multiple
       | factors behind those specific developments:
       | 
       | 1. Tech companies are flushed with cash because it's the highest
       | margin business out there. There was no such thing as software
       | company profit margins in the olden days of corporate behavior.
       | 
       | 3. The buyback graph didn't show R&D spending decreasing at all
       | or otherwise being impacted by stock buybacks. The cited HBR
       | article doesn't directly link the lack of R&D expenditures to
       | stock buybacks. Aren't there companies out there that have
       | minimal R&D expenses? S&P 500 companies like Dollar General,
       | Costco, Robert Half, and CBRE Group?
       | 
       | 4. Isn't the biggest reason to link CEO pay to stocks to avoid
       | personal income tax? That's just a tax efficiency issue.
       | 
       | 5. Aren't there other reasons why Vanguard is popular besides the
       | popularity of stocks in general? I always thought it was because
       | the Boglehead ideology spread and Vanguard's low expense ratios
       | proved to be attractive. I see this as "passive versus active
       | investing" not "investing in stocks versus investing in something
       | else."
       | 
       | 7. Who says FIRE isn't productive? Where do you think those "tech
       | companies flush with cash" got the cash from?
        
         | s1artibartfast wrote:
         | I never understood the negative attention stock buybacks have
         | received relative to dividends. They do basically do the same
         | thing, but nobody is offended when companies pay a dividend.
        
           | salawat wrote:
           | In a stock buyback, the investor only is made whole by
           | "exiting" the stock. I.e., if that stock has voting rights,
           | and you're more interested in being able to influence as a
           | shareholder, you're left out of the "lifting of every risk
           | sinker" when a company does a buyback. In fact, it guarantees
           | that the amount of shareholder influence as a whole
           | decreases, because if someone were to reacquire that share it
           | would be more expensive now.
           | 
           | Stock buybacks are basically attempts to shirk leashes,
           | freeing execs/other shareholders from the ongoing influence
           | of exiting shareholders.
           | 
           | Dividends on the other hand, are straightforward returns on
           | what was a commitment to sink risk. An ongoing source of
           | income for the shareholder as a result of the company
           | thriving. It's a straight up payment of a coupon off a bond.
           | There is no need to exit/re-enter required. Your # of shares
           | do not move. Therefore your relative investment stays as it
           | was, whereas with the buyback, you're handing back your
           | ongoing leash and influence on the company.
           | 
           | Stock buybacks are therefore not equivalent in any way to
           | paying of dividends. I don't know why this is so hard to
           | understand.
        
             | s1artibartfast wrote:
             | If a company does a buyback, shouldn't you still have a
             | higher percent control if you dont sell any of your
             | holdings, and the same % control if you do sell the
             | equivalent
             | 
             | Imagine a company has 100 shares and I own 10. If they
             | company buys back 50, the stock price will double, and my %
             | ownership goes up from 10 to 20%. I can sell down to 10%,
             | the same control I had before to take my profits.
             | 
             | What am I missing here?
        
       | antonomon wrote:
       | The old economic world may be leaving us, but its pathologies
       | stubbornly remain.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-11 23:02 UTC)