[HN Gopher] Haskell, Ada, C++, Awk: An Experiment in Prototyping...
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Haskell, Ada, C++, Awk: An Experiment in Prototyping Productivity
(1994) [pdf]
Author : Akronymus
Score : 46 points
Date : 2022-12-10 20:14 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cs.yale.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cs.yale.edu)
| atty wrote:
| So if I'm parsing the results correctly they only have a single
| data point per language? Seems like they are testing individual
| programmers styles/speed just as much as they are testing the
| languages.
| charcircuit wrote:
| They have 2 data points for Haskell since the one of the
| authors wrote a Haskell one which happened to have the fewest
| lines and highest documentation to code ratio.
| js8 wrote:
| Are there any more recent studies?
| melling wrote:
| 30 years ago Haskell was the winner. Conciseness was a major
| feature.
|
| Has anyone put this to the test on larger projects?
|
| 10,000 lines of Haskell have the same functionality as 100,000
| lines of C++?
| eddsh1994 wrote:
| I worked on https://github.com/input-output-hk/cardano-node if
| you want to see a large haskell code base
| gavinray wrote:
| I work at one of the largest Haskell-in-production companies in
| the world
|
| There are issues outside of the actual authorship of code you
| need to take into account if you want to choose Haskell. I'll
| leave it at that.
|
| It's a fantastic language undoubtedly.
|
| But if you've never experienced the maintenance and upgrade of
| a very large Haskell codebase over a period of years,
| especially if you have a big dependency-tree, and need to
| interface with external tools (database drivers, etc.) I'd urge
| you to talk to someone who has for a view into the experience.
| Also ask about the state of things like profiling and compiler
| bugs/memory leaks.
|
| EDIT: I want to note that the state the general Haskell
| ecosystem/tooling has improved at a dramatic pace in the last
| ~3-4 years, with the advent of HLS and recent GHC releases.
| amelius wrote:
| Sounds great except it takes 10x as much time to read/write the
| Haskell code versus C++.
| melling wrote:
| The chart did indicate that 85 lines of code did take a while
| to write but the 1100 lines of C++ likely took longer. Many
| developers claim that Haskell code has fewer bugs. Program
| correctness counts for something.
|
| Anyway, a modern competition with Python, Swift, Java, Modern
| C++, Rust, etc would be interesting.
|
| Java 1.0 wasn't even available when this paper was written.
| MaxBarraclough wrote:
| Page 9 shows Haskell scoring very well for development time
| when compared against Ada. C++ development time was
| unfortunately not reported.
| synack wrote:
| Ada projects tend to start slow, but readability and
| flexible namespacing make refactoring and maintenance much
| easier.
| charcircuit wrote:
| The small sample size and age of the experiment makes it not very
| relevant to today.
| dang wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Haskell, Ada, C++: An Experiment in Prototyping Productivity
| (1994) [pdf]_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19570776 -
| April 2019 (55 comments)
|
| _Haskell vs. Ada vs. C++ an Experiment in Software Prototyping
| Productivity (1994) [pdf]_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14267882 - May 2017 (59
| comments)
|
| _Haskell vs. Ada vs. C++ vs. Awk vs (1994) [pdf]_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13275288 - Dec 2016 (68
| comments)
|
| _Haskell, Ada, C++, Awk: An Experiment in Prototyping
| Productivity (1994) [pdf]_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7050892 - Jan 2014 (24
| comments)
|
| _Haskell v Ada v C++ v Awk... An Experiment in Software
| Prototyping Productivity_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7029783 - Jan 2014 (23
| comments)
| tmtvl wrote:
| I am very impressed that when most languages have a development
| time in the double digits (including the initial Haskell
| implementation), the Lisp version was developed in 3 hours.
|
| If the codebases are publicly available it would be interesting
| to see how understandable they are.
| gleenn wrote:
| What do you mean by "double digit times"? Your whole statement
| is almost completely lost because I can't tell if you think
| Lisp is fast or slow. Generally people say Lisps are good at
| prototyping and I'd agree, Clojure is super fast.
| tmtvl wrote:
| I'm talking about the table which shows development time in
| hours, as well as lines of code and lines of documentation.
|
| Come to think of it, I wonder if they counted docstrings as
| documentation or code?
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