[HN Gopher] Louis Rossmann explains why he left New York
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       Louis Rossmann explains why he left New York
        
       Author : danuker
       Score  : 36 points
       Date   : 2022-12-10 17:51 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
        
       | perfecthjrjth wrote:
       | I think businesses should move away from NY, CA and other states
       | to states where it is easy to do business.
        
         | Cipater wrote:
         | Companies are headquartered in states like NY and California
         | for a reason.
        
         | dev-3892 wrote:
         | i can't hear 'easy to do business' and not also hear 'i wish i
         | could just sell poison apples to people without all this
         | government getting in my way'.
         | 
         | regulation is what makes a market trustworthy. a trustworthy
         | market is an efficient market.
        
           | protastus wrote:
           | Tax code reform (simplification) is completely orthogonal to
           | public safety.
        
         | theshrike79 wrote:
         | Just move them to Delaware, no need to worry about anything
         | because you can hide your ownership in a structure so complex
         | they'll never figure out who to tax!
        
       | RosanaAnaDana wrote:
       | It's his own fault for not getting council at the appropriate
       | time.
        
         | cjbgkagh wrote:
         | I don't blame people for being too trusting and not entering
         | into conflict with a state with bottomless pockets and a strong
         | desire to win at any cost to avoid setting precedents.
         | 
         | I was hounded by California tax collectors over a mistake they
         | made, it was clear they weren't going to listen to reason on
         | how they were obviously wrong given their own documentation and
         | a lawsuit was going to be my only recourse. I opted to just
         | give them the money, it was far less than the cost of a
         | lawsuit. I consider it a cheap lesson in dealing with
         | California tax collectors something I never want to risk having
         | to do again.
        
         | DerekL wrote:
         | * counsel
        
       | susssin wrote:
       | New York city is like a really antiquated legacy codebase with
       | tons of redundant checks that were added with good intentions and
       | impossible to remove because you don't know what's truly holding
       | the system together. It's far too complex for an individual to
       | see the big picture well enough to slash the right things, and
       | there's certainly an expectation that lawmakers to continue
       | adding complexity in the name of simplicity but that obviously
       | fails because they're overspecialized to the point where they are
       | so far removed from the problem and without any kind of skin in
       | the game they have no incentive to get their hands dirty and
       | understand the plight of the regulated. Sometimes I wonder if the
       | best course of action is to rewrite, but as with a codebase
       | that's usually a mistake.
        
       | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
       | Oh damn he finally did it.
        
       | theossuary wrote:
       | A lot of people are making this about how unfair New York is, as
       | if the issue is New York (or other liberal cities). Its not. The
       | issue is our government has been hollowed out by big business
       | interests and their political supporters; it's gotten to the
       | point where there's no recourse for individuals. We need to write
       | laws that have actual protections for individuals, and actual
       | penalties. If a law guarantees a right, but has no recourse if
       | that right is taken, well then the law doesn't actually guarantee
       | anything at all.
       | 
       | Chomsky has an interesting take that seems relevant too:
       | 
       | > And the other leading propaganda theme -- and I don't mean by
       | that, you know, like, just what you hear in the newspapers- read
       | in the newspapers and so on, like the entertainment industry and
       | television and everything else -- is anti-politics. Meaning,
       | setting up a picture -- it's called anti-politics -- the picture
       | -- but a very specific kind of anti-politics -- you have to
       | establish the image, you know, get into people's heads, that the
       | Government is the enemy- the Federal Government. State
       | Governments are okay, because they can be sort of controlled by
       | business anyway, so it doesn't matter. But the Federal Government
       | is sometimes a little too big to be pushed around, so it's the
       | enemy. And it cannot be, nobody can dream of the possibility,
       | that the Government is of, by, and for the people. That's
       | impossible. It's an enemy to be hated and feared.
       | 
       | https://chomsky.info/19960413/
        
       | jokoon wrote:
       | That's pretty sad.
       | 
       | At the same time, New York is not a simple city. So I can't
       | imagine how things are over there, there is a lot of pressure
       | from a very dense and expensive city.
       | 
       | Tax collection is the pinnacle of a well functioning of society.
       | You never really know how those tax agencies make those
       | decisions, and it's not impossible there are politics at play.
       | 
       | To be really honest I'm quite happy to live in the EU. We have
       | other kinds of problems, but it seems peaceful, but American
       | problems scare me.
        
       | imhoguy wrote:
       | Sorry to hear the story. Reminds me EU VAT audit mess. Sometimes
       | I dream we could make some virtual businesses completely in
       | cryptospace to just avoid real world kafkesque bureaucracy we
       | have now. And I am not about avoiding paying taxes, I am
       | absolutely fine to pay % of what I get onto my personal account.
        
         | hef19898 wrote:
         | Thanks for confirming that cryoto is mainly about tax evasion.
         | By the way, EU VAT is pretty much straight forward. No idea why
         | some people cannot be bothered with the simplest of basic
         | requirements to conduct business in a certain jurisdiction.
        
           | imhoguy wrote:
           | Are you kidding? Just telco & SaaS: https://ec.europa.eu/taxa
           | tion_customs/business/vat/telecommu... An if you reach
           | certain scale and do mistakes you risk 25 years of prison in
           | some countries.
        
             | hef19898 wrote:
             | So, for some reason corporations cannot be bothered with
             | proper tax consultation and services? I know compliance
             | sucks, all that difficult to navigate rules and such, and
             | distract from innovative disruption, but in order to avoid
             | "25 years of prison in certain countries" those rules all
             | well worth respecting. Most SMEs do without making a fuzz
             | about it on social media.
        
               | milesvp wrote:
               | >>EU VAT is pretty much straight forward.
               | 
               | You are directly contradicting what the parent is
               | commenting on. I honestly can't tell if your current
               | comment is trying to be sarcastic, but you are clearly
               | not putting forth consistent arguments. I personally
               | sincerely doubt EU vat is straightforward. Accounting
               | itself is not straight forward and you can't do any taxes
               | without accounting. I'm a big fan of corporations paying
               | for failure in compliance, but your tone could be
               | slightly more generous. 25 years could be a big deal if
               | one country requires fifo cost accounting and another
               | requires lifo cost accounting. Do you comply with the one
               | that puts you in jail? do you keep 2 books? do you keep
               | seperate books for each country? Then, which do you
               | actually use to make business decisions? These are kind
               | of hard questions to answer, and can require considerable
               | resources.
        
               | devonkim wrote:
               | From what I've read about VAT vs income taxes in terms of
               | politics to make a gross generalization European income
               | taxes are about as simple as US sales taxes for consumers
               | and European VAT is about as complicated as US income
               | taxes. The political levers of power and legislative
               | tooling makes one easier to touch than the another. I'm
               | generally a fan of the spirit of the law over the letter
               | of the law and given the means to hide sources of wealth
               | it seems easier to enforce compliance upon consumption
               | rather than anything else (of course being mindful of the
               | largely regressive nature of consumption taxes).
               | 
               | Compliance that punishes smaller businesses
               | disproportionately to multinationals seems awkward, and
               | it's also unfortunately true that increasing taxes on
               | corporations (like any cost of business) tends to be
               | passed onto buyers of goods and services rather than the
               | intent to structurally promote divestment from consumer-
               | hostile practices.
        
               | hef19898 wrote:
               | You do what every company that has to follow GAAP on top
               | of other accounting rules does, two books, properly
               | audited and bridged. Maybe that stuff isn't straight
               | forward for everyone, it is for pros in the field. It
               | serves to have those pros do these jobs for you. Like,
               | you know, a professional company.
               | 
               | And yes, using the correct software suits and processes,
               | intra EU VAT _is_ straight forward and done by litteraly
               | thousands of small businesses every single day. And then
               | there is the less straight forward aspect around
               | _optimizing_ taxes and VAT. But that last bit seems not
               | to be the problem here, is it?
        
               | azmodeus wrote:
               | You seem to know a lot about EU VAT,can you recommend any
               | companies, toools, or resources to learn more?
        
               | hef19898 wrote:
               | Those folks used to have some resources on their website:
               | 
               | https://macocustoms.sgs.com/?lang=en
               | 
               | All my experuence comes from running the logistics and
               | supply chains cross border and being involved in the
               | proper system and reporting set-up. One of the lessons
               | learned: get proper tax and customs experts, and do what
               | they say. Also get proper accounting experts.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jjeaff wrote:
        
         | PaulsWallet wrote:
         | This is wrong and you should just watch the video before
         | getting on your soapbox. Or at least click on it and see the
         | title which almost certainly tells you why.
        
         | MrStonedOne wrote:
        
       | paleotrope wrote:
       | If we can avoid saying I'm victim blaming, he clearly made
       | mistakes. If someone is giving you money (front of the line/rush
       | service) in most tax jurisdictions, you are going to owe a tax on
       | that. The website errors of not paying local sales tax well
       | that's just ...dude.... you were seriously playing with fire on
       | that one.
       | 
       | Also, if you have a target on your back you have to make sure
       | your stuff is spotless. It's not fair but it's just the way it
       | is.
        
         | himinlomax wrote:
         | He says that the error rate on his tax reporting was
         | established eventually by the auditors at less than 0.1% of the
         | total amount due, so I'm not sure what you're going on about.
        
       | MichaelZuo wrote:
       | It seems odd for NY State's tax office to use relatively tough
       | methods to check tax compliance. Is that commonly experienced by
       | SMEs there?
        
         | PaulsWallet wrote:
         | At one point in the video, Rossman does imply that he is
         | getting special attention because tech lobbyists (i.e. Apple)
         | are trying to attack him because he lobbies against Apple when
         | it comes to Right to Repair and has done so for years. Not only
         | through criticism on YouTube but in government hearings.
         | Specifically hearings about Right to Repair.
        
           | MichaelZuo wrote:
           | That seems like a big claim... he doesn't seem to offer any
           | proof for it.
        
       | canucker2016 wrote:
       | He's getting audited again - his CPA said that Rossmann is the
       | first client who's gotten audited just after the previous audit
       | finished.
       | 
       | see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvHt1Q3k-44
        
         | canucker2016 wrote:
         | His payment for the amount due on the first audit was
         | postmarked by the due date but arrived after the due date since
         | he sent the payment via registered mail.
         | 
         | Now NY State is going after him for missed payment plus
         | interest.
         | 
         | see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXvuOD1D0gM
        
       | protastus wrote:
       | He mentions a CPA at the end but I didn't catch any mention of an
       | attorney. I wonder why.
       | 
       | The state bureaucracy doesn't care about you. The tax code is
       | enormous and only gets bigger. The bureaucracy's game is to claim
       | you screwed up with minimal transparency. Nobody will volunteer
       | to do a deep dive on your case, nobody has an incentive to help
       | you, and nobody is accountable for their mistakes or lack of
       | effort.
       | 
       | It's very difficult to play with these rules, and an attorney can
       | help change the game.
        
       | danuker wrote:
       | TL; DW: the state tax authority abused him.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-10 23:01 UTC)