[HN Gopher] This to That
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       This to That
        
       Author : robin_reala
       Score  : 403 points
       Date   : 2022-12-10 07:22 UTC (15 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thistothat.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thistothat.com)
        
       | ekianjo wrote:
       | I find it distasteful that the answer is a brand name instead of
       | an active ingredient. not all brands are available worldwide, and
       | it's better to know what it is made of to check for actual
       | options.
       | 
       | It also makes people think happen by magic instead of letting
       | them learn about what makes the glue work.
        
         | throwoutway wrote:
         | I disagree. If I'm in the middle of a project, I'd rather get a
         | product name and go directly to the store. I don't want to
         | search for multiple products. I can always look for the
         | chemical in the product if needed
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | None of the glues I have list ingredients. I have no idea
         | what's the "active ingredient".
        
           | ekianjo wrote:
           | You just need to read the back of the package.
           | 
           | https://smokewrap.com/pub/media/catalog/product/cache/74c105.
           | ..
           | 
           | Here for crazyglue: standard cyanoacrylate, like in most
           | "super glues".
        
             | newaccount74 wrote:
             | Okay, I checked my glues and some of them do list
             | ingredients.
        
         | coding123 wrote:
         | It's probably because they wanted to be useful to lay people.
         | Something us hackers often forget. Be useful.
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | Not only are many brands not universally available, even those
         | that are more often than not have different recipes in
         | different regions.
        
         | wartijn_ wrote:
         | I think calling this "distasteful" is pretty dumb. it's a
         | website that has offered a free service for decades. If I
         | wanted to glue some glass to metal, I wouldn't want to which
         | ratio of certain ingredients I'd need. That would just result
         | in me having to check the description of dozens of packages in
         | a shop, while I would forget the names of those ingredients as
         | soon as I'd bought the glue and I have no idea what the effect
         | of a different ratio will be. I'd be just a bunch of useless
         | information, while knowing which product I need to buy is
         | providing a service people actually use.
         | 
         | Too bad that it's not super useful for people who don't live in
         | the US, but you can't make everyone happy.
        
           | ekianjo wrote:
           | > I wouldn't want to which ratio of certain ingredients I'd
           | need. That would just result in me having to check the
           | description of dozens of packages in a shop,
           | 
           | Glues are not a long list of ingredients like a recipe or
           | something. There's only a few ingredients that actually
           | matter in making things stick.
           | 
           | > That would just result in me having to check the
           | description of dozens of packages in a shop,
           | 
           | Checking ingredients is a good thing in a store. Not sure why
           | people find this kind of thing a problem. Aren't you curious
           | with what things are made?
        
             | schrectacular wrote:
             | So wait, originally you are upset that the creator of the
             | site didn't do extra legwork for you. Then immediately
             | after you are chiding someone for not being curious and
             | wanting to know what's inside their glues... Seems like the
             | obvious solution would be for you to take your own advice
             | and look up the product name to find out what's inside.
             | Curious people can and will do that.
             | 
             | We don't have a problem with people checking ingredients.
             | We have a problem with you coming in and telling people
             | that they should check ingredients but also that the
             | author's work is _distasteful_ because they should have
             | provided the ingredients so you don't have to check
             | yourself.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | > should have provided the ingredients so you don't have
               | to check yourself.
               | 
               | I provided a rationale as to why it matters: the same
               | glues are not available under the same brand name
               | everywhere, and the brand name is irrelevant. If a brand
               | disappears for some reason, it does not mean that this
               | type of glue is gone.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | Couldn't you get the recipe based on the brand name if
               | not available in your region?
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | There are complete lists of ingredients on everything in my
             | grocery store. But NOT in my hardware store.
             | 
             | A large majority of items don't tell you what's in them at
             | all. Sometimes Googling will tell you the main ingredient
             | in a product, but often it won't or you'll get conflicting
             | answers from random forum posts.
        
               | ekianjo wrote:
               | > NOT on my hardware store
               | 
               | Not true - because the regulations of almost every
               | country require to mention the ingredients that compose
               | more than a few percents of the formulation. There is no
               | long list on ingredients on certain glues because they
               | can as simple as 100% ethyl 2-cyanoacrylate.
        
             | akanet wrote:
             | Sometimes I'm curious, sometimes I just want to glue two
             | things together to finish my project. Do you meet many
             | people who mix their own glues?
        
       | bxparks wrote:
       | I've been using superglue (cyanoacrylate) to attach a small metal
       | L-bracket to some IP65-rated ABS plastic boxes, then hanging them
       | on a nail or screw using the metal bracket. The boxes contain
       | battery-powered temperature sensors. This has worked great for
       | several years for the attic and crawlspace. But the outside boxes
       | fall off every winter. I think the metal and plastic expand and
       | contract at different rates through the temperature swings
       | (40C/104F summer, -10C/14F winter) causing the bond to break.
       | Amusingly, superglue is NOT one of the recommendations given on
       | this website (LePage's Metal Epoxy, J-B Weld, Faststeel Epoxy
       | Putty) for Metal to Plastic.
        
       | kellyharsh wrote:
        
       | vfinn wrote:
       | Maybe you don't mind me asking. I have a small hole in my top-
       | loading washing machine's rubber seal and I have been wondering
       | whether it could be fixed (a new seal costs 100$ and it'd feel
       | nuts to throw it away for environmental reasons alone). I know
       | there are rubber glues, and I have made tests with one, but the
       | question is can they be used inside a washing machine. Does
       | anyone know (a solution to this problem)? The hole is 4cm x 1cm.
       | 
       | Edit: As a side note I have wondered also whether I could use two
       | pieces (of metal, let's say) that I'd screw/press together
       | tightly to prevent the leak. Does that make any sense?
        
         | doctorwho42 wrote:
         | Depending on the size and shape of this seal(gasket), you can
         | go one of two paths; (1) use a gasket compound, it comes out
         | liquidish and then sets into a rubber. (2) buy sheet gasket
         | material similar to your gasket, and trace and cut the gasket
         | out. Depending on size the sheet cost could very between a few
         | dollars to like $10-15.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | Hard to know whether a metal gasket would work here, but it's
         | extremely unlikely as you need tight tolerances and high
         | clamping force. Rubber is used here probably because those
         | things are absent, and there is probably movement involved.
         | Other commenter has the right idea, you can probably make a new
         | gasket.
        
       | Amorymeltzer wrote:
       | Discussion from a few years ago:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21110712
        
       | Waterluvian wrote:
       | My dishwasher tub is made of a kind of plastic that's very good
       | for not absorbing foods/liquids but therefore is very bad at
       | having anything adhere to it.
       | 
       | This is a problem as a tiny hole was burned through it. I've had
       | a hard time finding something that plugs the hole. Various
       | epoxies. Silicone caulk. JB weld for plastics. Everything peels
       | off in weeks or months.
        
         | bagels wrote:
         | You can use mechanical fasteners (rivets) and a rubber gasket
         | possibly?
         | 
         | Or, make the hole uniform to accept a plug (again, mechanical
         | attachment)
        
       | [deleted]
        
         | blowski wrote:
         | The site has existed in this format since the late 90s, when
         | CGI was how you did these things. That it hasn't really needed
         | to change in 20 years speaks to the quality of websites built
         | like this, not their "shittiness".
         | 
         | Compare it to a site built 2 years ago with APIs and CDN-hosted
         | assets that no longer exist.
        
       | into_infinity wrote:
       | It's an ancient website, although it's both a bit too specific
       | and not specific enough.
       | 
       | An example of insufficient specificity: "rubber". Both silicone
       | rubber and SBR are rubbers, but they behave very differently (and
       | almost nothing bonds silicone). Another example: "plastic".
       | Again, this spans both easily-glued materials such as ABS, and
       | hard-to-glue commodity plastics such as HDPE or PP, where almost
       | nothing sticks.
       | 
       | An example of excessive specificity: pretty much everything else.
       | Low surface energy materials aside, gluing ceramic to plastic
       | isn't hugely different from gluing metal to ABS. The real
       | question for most gluing projects is whether the joint needs to
       | be flexible, how much of a gap you need to fill, and how good it
       | needs to look.
        
         | thayne wrote:
         | Well, I think the target population is the general population.
         | And most people probably don't know what kind of plastic they
         | are using, and wouldn't know that gluing metal to ABS is
         | similar to gluing ceramic to plastic.
         | 
         | I certainly wouldn't have known that.
        
       | themodelplumber wrote:
       | This reminded me of a recent experience. I ordered a budget,
       | homage Scout Knife, based on the Aitor Gran Capitan "Spanish Army
       | Knife" pattern (produced sans corkscrew of course, which made me
       | chuckle since I'd been a bit of a rebellious scout myself). The
       | knife arrived and the scales promptly began to detach after some
       | vigorous sharpening.
       | 
       | I was surprised to remove the scales and discover they were glued
       | on, smooth plastic to smooth metal. (The factory glue was amber
       | colored, bubbly, and rubbery, with a pizza-cheese effect when
       | pulled cold)
       | 
       | I knew it was a budget tool, but somehow expected at least basic
       | friction-fastening at the metal rivet points. Instead, there was
       | this glue on the scales' inner plastic lattice work, plus some
       | friction pressure around the scale edges.
       | 
       | I mixed up some epoxy, which as I was raised is something of a
       | knife hobbyist's friend. I still have a zero-tang carving knife
       | my dad made by epoxying a Victorinox blade into antler.
       | 
       | Just as I was getting materials ready to sand plastic and metal,
       | I noticed the epoxy mix was already in the advanced stages of
       | setting!
       | 
       | Turns out I had purchased "4 minute set time" epoxy from PC
       | Epoxy. And it had been nearly that long since the mixing. Instead
       | of my usual dilemma of waiting for things to set, the situation
       | was suddenly more urgently coming together.
       | 
       | Usually I prepare surfaces with plenty of time left in the
       | curing, so personal experience had led me astray on account of
       | not typically needing to read the epoxy product label closely.
       | I'd never seen 4-minute epoxy at the store before.
       | 
       | So, I really hope my unsanded but hastily- and liberally-coated
       | surfaces hold together OK for a while.
        
         | dfc wrote:
         | I think it's a good idea to always do surface prep before
         | mixing epoxy (regardless of the working time).
        
       | sabujp wrote:
       | cgi-bin : What year is it?!
        
       | Mistletoe wrote:
       | Bookmarked forever, thank you!
        
       | mdrzn wrote:
       | Hug of death from HN?
        
       | canadianfella wrote:
        
       | mauvehaus wrote:
       | A little surprised to see that the recommendation for wood to
       | wood isn't the ubiquitous Titebond line of wood glues. I've never
       | seen a bottle of Elmer's carpenter's glue in any shop I've ever
       | set foot in.
       | 
       | There are other adhesives used to glue wood together depending on
       | the application (epoxy is big in the boat world AIUI), but for
       | everyday wood gluing, Titebond is pretty much king in the US.
        
         | tupshin wrote:
         | From a brand popularity and professional use point of view, you
         | are 100% correct. The various Titebond formulations are, I
         | believe, the most widely used by carpenters in the US. However,
         | all PVA glues are going to have extremely similar strength and
         | overall properties, and they do have an excellent summary here:
         | 
         | https://www.thistothat.com/glue/pva.shtml
         | 
         | "Be wary of over priced PVAs that claim to be for a specific
         | use. There is very little difference from one PVA to the other,
         | and nothing that should increase the cost."
         | 
         | Titebond does have range of products, well described here:
         | 
         | https://thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/differences-between-ti...
         | 
         | but Titebond original would be considered to be nearly
         | identical to the Elmers that they recommend
        
         | steve_adams_86 wrote:
         | Titebond III creates bonds stronger than the hardest woods I
         | use and they're even highly water resistant. It's also easy to
         | apply, clean, store, etc.
         | 
         | Maybe Elmer's is good but in 15+ years of gluing wood, I've
         | never seen it recommended or used, either.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | And if you want to know whether the recommended glue is any good,
       | watch a video from Project Farm
       | https://www.youtube.com/@ProjectFarm/search?query=glue
        
         | dfc wrote:
         | I like his videos but adhesives are tough to test quickly.
         | Strength over time is important for a lot of applications. It's
         | also really strange that he used end grain glue joints when
         | testing wood glues. No woodworker would use wood glue for that
         | application.
        
       | jakear wrote:
       | Couldn't not surface this gem from their primary plastic to
       | plastic recommendation:
       | 
       | > If you live in the U.S. there is a different formula for Goop
       | than in Canada. The Canadian formula contains perchloroethylene
       | which is a known carcinogenic. The U.S. Goop formula contains
       | toluene, which although is a dangerous solvent, it is not
       | carcinogenic. It is however more flammable. Because the Canadian
       | standards are quite rigid regarding flammables and explosive,
       | Eclectic manufactures a formula for Canada, replacing the toluene
       | with perchloroethylene. Apparently, the people who set these
       | standards in Canada are more concerned with the dangers of fires
       | than cancer!
       | 
       | https://www.thistothat.com/glue/hgoop.shtml
       | 
       | For what it's worth, my experience has proven "Lexel" solid.
       | Strong enough to keep the top window panel on my roof top tent
       | locked down across countless thousands of miles, and it sticks to
       | wet surfaces. Meaning when you're caught lacking in a PNW
       | rainstorm getting soaked in the middle of the night, you can
       | apply the glue then and there to resolve the issue immediately.
       | 
       | Of course you and your stuff will still be soaked. For that I
       | recommend Mexico.
        
         | akiselev wrote:
         | Perchloroethylene is used by almost every dry cleaner in the
         | United States.
        
           | LeifCarrotson wrote:
           | Who still uses a dry cleaner?
        
             | optymizer wrote:
             | I'm not spending time to wash, dry and iron 30 shirts. I'd
             | rather pay $70 at the dry cleaners, once in a while. Now
             | that cancerogenic substance is an interesting topic. I'll
             | have to ask about it the next time I go there.
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | I'm sure they will be up on the science.
               | 
               | Washing - drying 1 or 30 shirts is only one load. The
               | time to pull out a board and iron 30 shirts is less than
               | the time to load them up drive to a place and repeat when
               | you pick them up.
        
               | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
               | Should I do this before or after mowing the lawn, general
               | home maintenance, vacuuming, cleaning, shopping, cooking,
               | showering. Mending work clothes (metal fabrication
               | workshop is hard on work clothes). What am I complaining
               | about, I don't even have children.
               | 
               | Or do you mind if I outsource some of these things
               | occasionally?
        
               | ipaddr wrote:
               | No you can't do any of those things because you spent
               | your time/energy at the drycleaner. Outsource only if it
               | saves you time.
        
               | noduerme wrote:
               | Some people love ironing. My brother irons while he
               | watches baseball. He says it's Zen for him. I myself hate
               | ironing. I used to stop by his place with my shirts and
               | he'd iron them for me.
               | 
               | The best are those hanging steamer/dryer closets. Fancy
               | stuff though.
        
           | justinator wrote:
           | Good thing we don't use toluene in dry cleaning then!
        
         | simmonmt wrote:
         | Went to Mexico. Tent is dry but I'm still soaked, now with a
         | combination of rain and sweat. Please advise.
        
         | jszymborski wrote:
         | Lets not pretend that Toluene is without health concerns. It's
         | a volatile organic solvent with health concerns.
         | 
         | Toluene has a NFPA Hazard ID of: Health: 2 Flammability: 3
         | Reactivity: 0
         | 
         | Perchloroethylene has a NFPA Hazard ID of: HEALTH=3 FIRE=0
         | REACTIVITY=0
         | 
         | Either way these are nasty substances.
        
         | Xeoncross wrote:
         | Reminds me of the infant mattresses and car seats covered in
         | carcinogenic flame retardants.
        
       | 3guk wrote:
       | I love simple sites like this - it's a shame that google seems to
       | punish sites like this that contain information that is not often
       | updated (because it does not need to be).
        
         | rvense wrote:
         | It's weird, right? A wordpress blog that wrapped each
         | combination of materials in a separate five page article and
         | republished them every week with slight changes would do
         | better.
        
           | blowski wrote:
           | Within engineering, there is this weird dominant culture that
           | fresher information is more likely to be accurate.
           | 
           | Sometimes, that's right, because a lot of tech changes so
           | quickly that a three year old article about is now hopelessly
           | out of date since v5 deprecated v3 syntax.
           | 
           | For a lot of other articles, I'd rather read an
           | authoritative, well-written article that was published 40
           | years ago. Nothing material has changed in the intervening
           | period, so it doesn't matter.
           | 
           | Google just doesn't seem to know when I value quality over
           | freshness, so it defaults to the latter most of the time.
        
             | swader999 wrote:
             | Sheldon Brown's bike tuning comes to mind after reading
             | your comment. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/articles.html
             | (look at that, an html page!!!)
        
             | cjmcqueen wrote:
             | It's a type of prisoners dilemma with Google. They're
             | having to out game the SEO gamers and pick a tactic that
             | moves the web forward and doesn't over reward entrenched
             | parties. I agree this site gives good useful information,
             | but what if new glues come out on the market? What if a
             | YouTube channel comes out comparing and testing glues?
             | Authority is great until it's out of date, so I think it's
             | logical to go with a bias towards fresh content.
             | 
             | I do wish there was more of a focus on attribution and
             | citing sources on the web. Maybe Web3 will save us on that
             | front...
        
               | auveair wrote:
               | > I agree this site gives good useful information, but
               | what if new glues come out on the market? What if a
               | YouTube channel comes out comparing and testing glues?
               | 
               | All good questions, but shame that google answer to that
               | is "surely a Wordpress blog called 2022-glue-boss.com
               | made in the last year has all those answers!"
        
               | 9dev wrote:
               | Web3 will save nothing for any of us, but funnel money in
               | the pockets of investors. That's all it is.
        
               | Phrenzy wrote:
               | I'm sure Web4 will solve that.
        
       | lzaaz wrote:
       | I can't believe that a website that is practically static goes
       | down like this.
        
       | NelsonMinar wrote:
       | One of the original microsites, dating to 1999!
        
       | anigbrowl wrote:
       | I am pleased that this is about materials rather than
       | microservices.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Much easier than glueing microservices together.
        
       | nxpnsv wrote:
       | I first used that site in the 90s... amazing it is still there
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | This is a so pre 2000 behaving website. They could turned the
       | glue recommendation engine to a SaaS so you can pay mothly for
       | glue related advices. And they have no heavy JS front-end, I mean
       | it's 2022, right?
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | An absolutely brilliant idea. I frequently use the wrong glue. A
       | little more info about what qualities each choice has would be
       | interesting.
       | 
       | Remembering to let glues which "cure" have stress free time, and
       | glues which are "apply to each surface, wait, and then contact
       | press" dog my attempts too.
        
       | agotterer wrote:
       | Thank you! One of the items on my todo list today was to find a
       | glue suitable to attach plastic to glass. I've tried 4 different
       | glues and non have held. Here's hoping!
        
         | someweirdperson wrote:
         | Try double-sided tape (there's many different kinds).
         | Unfortunately, the site only recommends glues.
        
         | canadianfella wrote:
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-10 23:01 UTC)