[HN Gopher] EU to Facebook, 'Drop Dead'
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       EU to Facebook, 'Drop Dead'
        
       Author : samizdis
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2022-12-07 17:55 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (pluralistic.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (pluralistic.net)
        
       | nunez wrote:
       | man. while this is a very good decision by the EU, my gut tells
       | me that this is going to further obliterate the tech industry.
        
       | htrp wrote:
       | >Facebook will doubtless appeal, but the writing is on the wall
       | here: it's the end of the line for surveillance advertising in
       | Europe, an affluent territory with 500m+ residents.
       | 
       | Left unsaid in this.... facebook will spend whatever amount of
       | money it takes to win on appeal.
        
         | edgyquant wrote:
         | There is likely no amount of money that can do so. So let's
         | hope they bankrupt themselves trying
        
       | JacobThreeThree wrote:
       | Are EU firms being scrutinized as much as American ones? Are
       | these GDPR penalties on American businesses a protectionist
       | measure by the EU?
        
         | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
         | Yawn. The US is passing straight protectionist laws and most of
         | the American fines for embargo violations are targeting foreign
         | companies. At this point talking about reciprocity is a joke.
         | If the EU had modicum of a backbone, we would straight up ban
         | American companies from sensitive markets and put tariff on the
         | rest.
        
         | vineyardmike wrote:
         | What EU firms? The EU is starved in big tech, and doesn't have
         | nearly the international impact as Silicon Valley/ US. Many EU
         | companies that get big move to the US (eg Spotify).
         | 
         | If the EU was host to surveillance advertising I'm sure the
         | narrative would be that companies should provide services
         | cheaply instead for the social good. While you can have
         | whatever opinions you want on invasive tracking tech, the
         | reality is that the EU never had their share of profits from it
         | and have always been more critical of US based companies. Yes
         | they're protectionist.
         | 
         | Edit: it can be good for consumers and good for national
         | protectionism. I'm not questioning if it's good for consumers
         | but it is definitely good for nationalism.
        
           | science4sail wrote:
           | This is pretty similar to a common argument that we see on
           | HN: "Apple cares more about user privacy because the bulk of
           | their revenue comes from selling devices, not ads".
           | 
           | The issue here is whether Apple's pivot to services and
           | advertising revenue will corrupt their privacy protections.
           | Similarly, we can wonder if EU privacy protections will
           | vanish if a future adtech unicorn gets born in France or
           | Germany.
        
             | vineyardmike wrote:
             | > The issue here is whether Apple's pivot to services and
             | advertising revenue will corrupt their privacy protections
             | 
             | Considering the way they treat FB data collection vs their
             | own data collection... I'd guess yes. Apple has a not-so-
             | subtle growth in ads that we've been hearing rumors about,
             | and I wouldn't be surprised to see a suit from Eg.
             | Facebook. Apple ads will focus on app content - which the
             | biggest competition used to facebook.
             | 
             | > Similarly, we can wonder if EU privacy protections will
             | vanish if a future adtech unicorn gets born in France or
             | Germany
             | 
             | I think the bigger likelihood is that this cements the
             | reality that no new ad-tech giants will emerge. If you ban
             | geese, you'll never get a golden one.
        
             | 6510 wrote:
             | It's not really a question _if_ but if enough of their
             | revenue comes from selling ads they _have to_ push it to
             | the legal limit. Companies are suppose to make money but do
             | so within the law. Of course they do have to create their
             | own policies where laws are oddly missing but I imagine
             | more of that kind of fuzzy logic would be the last thing
             | big tech is interested in.
        
           | clnq wrote:
           | > What EU firms?
           | 
           | All dealing with personal data, not just tech. Hotels,
           | hospitals, retailers, banks, government organizations,
           | insurance brokers, education institutions, and so on.
        
         | LunaSea wrote:
         | The US uses fines of EU companies as a strategic tool so I
         | think that the EU hitting US companies with GDPR fines is fair.
        
         | mrtksn wrote:
         | They are. Not only companies but government organizations are
         | fined too.
         | 
         | You can see it here: https://www.enforcementtracker.com/
        
           | tinalumfoil wrote:
           | While it's possible the US just has more tech companies, I
           | think it should be pointed out the top fines here are to
           | Amazon Inc, Meta Platforms Inc, Meta Platforms Inc, WhatsApp
           | Inc (owned by Meta), Google LLC, Facebook Ireland Ltd, Google
           | Ireland Ltd and Google.
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | Top fines are still American but definitely far from
             | exclusive.
        
         | samizdis wrote:
         | I don't know of any EU corporates with the scale, reach and
         | depth of US corporates such as Meta, Google, Twitter et al.
         | Their dominance globally is going to prompt GDPR scrutiny. If
         | an EU corporate were to grow to relative relevance, I'd expect
         | similar scrutiny. I see no protectionism, largely because
         | there's nothing to protect.
        
       | hobbitstan wrote:
       | I'm quite impressed that Facebook has lasted this long with its
       | business model. A combination of being based out of the US, where
       | legislators look the other way if jobs are being created and
       | taxes paid, and the snail-like movement of European law makers
       | and enforcers, allowed companies like Facebook to become highly
       | profitable spy machines.
       | 
       | It was never going to last, but it lasted far longer than I
       | thought it would. Just look at TikTok as an example. A literal
       | spy app by communist China that experts have been warning about
       | for years, and it's still functioning with little resistance.
       | Amazing.
        
       | profstasiak wrote:
       | I wish there was one button way to opt out of behaviorally
       | addicting features. Maybe next big regulation comming from EU.
        
         | UncleEntity wrote:
         | I think it's labeled "uninstall".
         | 
         | At some point people have to take responsibility for their own
         | actions and realize government regulators aren't their sugar
         | daddies in charge of making sure they don't do anything self
         | destructive. If that's what sugar daddies do, no clue?
        
           | nunez wrote:
           | there's a difference between "taking responsibility for your
           | own actions" and "designing a platform that is expressly
           | designed to be addicting enough to subvert that
           | responsibility"
           | 
           | chief example: infinite scroll.
           | 
           | why does content need to scroll infinitely other than to keep
           | eyeballs on the site and make it easy to lose track of time?
        
           | deadly_syn wrote:
           | Unfortunately, I personally dont think the average person is
           | that capable of self regulation at this point. Social media
           | culture has become a cornerstone for genz and late
           | millenials, and is designed to make these dark patterns work
           | on you better.
           | 
           | Meaning in future this issue might actuslly compound. And i
           | dont think any of this is malicious intentionally. I think
           | its just self serving assholes exploiting whatever gets them
           | what they want.
        
           | com wrote:
           | The argument is akin to the bans on toxic chemicals in
           | domestic products. It worked for lead, mercury, asbestos and
           | a host of other things. These have saved many, many lives.
           | 
           | Similar rules around predatory lending, predatory insurance,
           | mandatory all-in air flight pricing have all done wonders for
           | consumers' sanity and improved market offerings enormously.
        
           | otikik wrote:
           | Why not? I'll take that over them writing laws that only
           | benefit the wealthy and big corps any day of the week.
        
           | WastingMyTime89 wrote:
           | How can we talk about uninstalling when Facebook has shadow
           | profils based on your friends and monitor your traffic
           | outside of Facebook without you agreeing to it via the share
           | buttons? And don't tell me you can use a complex technical
           | solution to avoid it. The EU is legislating for the average
           | user, not people who can block JS.
        
             | sorokod wrote:
             | Uninstall anyway. Shadow profile or not, uninstall.
        
       | johnwheeler wrote:
       | Why is Facebook any worse than Google?
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-07 23:02 UTC)