[HN Gopher] Chris Seaton has died
___________________________________________________________________
Chris Seaton has died
Author : iluzone
Score : 386 points
Date : 2022-12-07 11:20 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| sicromoft wrote:
| Tenderlove wrote a nice tribute, "In Memory of a Giant":
|
| http://tenderlovemaking.com/2022/12/07/in-memory-of-a-giant....
| searls wrote:
| Aaron's post was incredibly touching and inspired me to share
| this https://blog.testdouble.com/posts/2022-12-07-the-best-
| kind-o...
| noneeeed wrote:
| That was lovely, and put much more eloquently how I feel
| about Chris than I've managed myself.
|
| We really have lost an exemplar of how to be a member of a
| community based on knowledge and learning.
|
| I hope he continues to be an inspiration to people in the
| Ruby world for many years to come.
| noneeeed wrote:
| This bit really chimed with my brief contacts with Chris
|
| > As a college dropout, I've always felt underqualified.
| Embarrassment about my lack of knowledge and credentials has
| driven me to study hard on my own time. But Chris never once
| made me feel out of place. Any time I had questions, without
| judgement, he would take the time to explain things to me.
|
| I never once felt like he looked down on people who knew less
| than him, he just saw it as an opportunity to share what he
| knew with them.
|
| In an industry that can sometimes be dominated by arrogant
| certainty, or people trying to demonstrate their brilliance, he
| was a breath of fresh air.
| graderjs wrote:
| Seeing some of the comments here how people valued him, it seems
| like maybe sometimes these sentiments of gratitude are not
| expressed until after someone passes. It works if folks cherish
| the time they have, and remind people of how they appreciate them
| while they're still on Earth in their body.
| schneems wrote:
| I had lunch with him on Wednesday and wish I said more.
|
| I also worry about the hidden pressures of praise. A overly
| critical inner life can interpret it as "I like you as long as
| you are useful" which is of course not the truth.
|
| I have appreciation for the creators in my life, even when they
| no longer create.
| xtracto wrote:
| >I like you as long as you are useful" which is of course not
| the truth.
|
| I think that's the problem with depression disease: no matter
| what most people tell you, your brain will find a way to use
| it to dig the hole deeper.
|
| My wife has battled with minor depression and anxiety her
| whole life. I learned that more than trying to say things to
| cheer her up in the moment, i was more useful by looking for
| treatment.
|
| It's a terrible disease.
| whats_a_quasar wrote:
| This is a point that is often missed in the conversation
| about depression. In the middle of a major depression,
| literally nothing you can say to the person will cheer them
| up. The best you can do is be near them, express love, and
| try to help them maintain sleep/eating/exercise and
| therapy.
| toyg wrote:
| _> A overly critical inner life can interpret it as "I like
| you as long as you are useful"_
|
| That's me after most praise: "you say you like me because the
| stuff I can do will help you, or because you have some
| unstated aim to take advantage of me, or because you don't
| know that it could have been so much better". I don't know
| when, but at some point any expectation of honesty in praise
| just went out of the window. Because of that, obviously, I
| also don't praise people as much as I should, because I
| expect they would react like I do - with obvious
| repercussions on social interactions.
|
| The mind can be a right bitch.
| schneems wrote:
| I find some of the best advice for adults is found in
| advice for handling small children (I've got two kids).
|
| The new research/trend is to try to praise behavior rather
| than outcomes (or in addition). The other bit is to focus
| on their actions instead of it's impact on you. For example
| "I'm proud that you won that baseball game" places the
| focus on me and on the outcome of winning. Versus "I saw
| you really focused out there in the outfield, I know
| getting distracted between bats is easy and you've come
| along way."
|
| It's a very new way of speaking for me, but the more I
| practice it the more natural it comes. My family aims to
| "catch someone in praise" a few times a day. We also
| celebrate celebration. I.e. if I say something nice about
| someone, then they turn around and say "you get a point for
| giving a point."
|
| > The mind can be a right bitch.
|
| Too true :(
| rented_mule wrote:
| Agreed. For many, myself included, receiving praise for
| an outcome gets internalized as setting that outcome as
| the minimum bar. It applies more pressure. For some, they
| hear that the outcome is valuable and punish themselves
| psychologically for not achieving it sooner. For some,
| it's even more complicated than that.
|
| A few years ago, I was managing the most impactful
| engineer I've ever been around (and I've seen a lot great
| engineers in my 30+ year career that included stints at
| several startups including my own, going through a a
| pretty big IPO, working at a FAANG as it came to dominate
| it's area, etc.). It was her first job and the team was
| stacked with high performers. We were directly
| responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars a year in
| revenue. Three weeks into her career, everybody on the
| team was going to her when they couldn't figure things
| out. Just a phenomenal mind with a capacity for dealing
| with technical complexity and finding business value that
| I would have previously thought impossible. Of course
| that led to a lot of praise from me and everyone else.
| Every time I praised her for an outcome, she withdrew
| further, eventually getting to the point that she
| wouldn't say anything in one-on-ones other than short
| answers to direct questions. A few months in, the CEO
| (without telling any of us beforehand) used a slide from
| one of her design review presentations to inspire the
| company with the kinds of technical->business wins we
| were now achieving as a company - it devastated her,
| making her want to change careers. A month later, she
| tried to reject a significant salary increase.
|
| Nine months in, she made (and corrected) a minor
| technical mistake. I mentioned it to her in our next one-
| on-one. As I did, she leaned forward and her eyes got
| big. She peppered me with questions until she understood
| my perspective on it from every angle. The more I spoke
| about it, the more she perked up. After seeing this
| response, I decided to try to find deeper "criticisms" to
| bring up with her. She was so good that it was HARD to
| find anything at all. Eventually I thought of what level
| she'd be at in ten years and framed things as "here are
| skills you have that you're not fully exploiting to be as
| impactful as you could be." It instantly turned our
| interactions inside out. She went from zero trust in me
| as her manager to complete trust in me as a life mentor
| in ~30 minutes.
|
| Later I asked her why that worked and she said it was one
| of the few times in her life that she thought someone
| understood her faults and still valued her. It's just
| what you're saying about letting people know you see them
| and what they're doing, not just the outcomes they are a
| part of and how it affects you. I'm lucky to have learned
| so much about engineering, management, and life from my
| interactions with her.
|
| One of my heroes, Fred Rogers, was very good at this 50+
| years ago, saying things like "I like you just the way
| you are."
| tfigment wrote:
| You are not alone. I think it goes all the way back to high
| school or middle school for me. Its when you realize the
| gold star stickers were behavior manipulation or something
| and then see it everywhere.
| layer8 wrote:
| If he indeed committed suicide out of depression, I would
| imagine that maybe he realized after years of relative
| successes that nothing, no achievement, no
| appreciation/gratitude by others, will cure his depression. At
| least that wouldn't be an uncommon pattern for high-intellect
| people with severe depression.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| This is very common actually. Phil Stutz (a famous
| psychiatrist) calls it the Snapshot. Basically the Snapshot
| is the misbelief that if we achieve certain things we will be
| happy. It's a form of wishful thinking. Instead you have to
| focus on and enjoy the journey because basic reality is pain,
| uncertainty and constant work.
|
| There's a Netflix documentary on Stutz (called "Stutz") with
| Jonah Hill that is quite good although abbreviated on its
| coverage of "the tools".
| entropicdrifter wrote:
| As someone who suffers dysthymia and occasional major
| depression on top of it, I'll never stop being grateful
| that I figured this out early on in life.
|
| When I was 11, I got my black belt in Tae Kwon Do. A couple
| years after that point I grew disillusioned with continuing
| to practice martial arts altogether because I realized that
| the achievement didn't make me happy. In some ways, it made
| my depression worse at the time and it just took me a few
| years to figure that out.
|
| Music has consistently sustained me since then. It's both
| an endless journey of self improvement _and_ an activity
| that 's possible to purely enjoy in the moment. It takes so
| much of your brain at once to perform music that you
| literally _cannot_ be stuck in your head with your own
| thoughts, instead you reach a state of mind where there is
| no ego whatsoever, just total flow-state focus and the
| experience of the present.
| theGnuMe wrote:
| That's awesome and you've motivated me to restart piano!
| nnoitra wrote:
| noneeeed wrote:
| Absolutely tragic news.
|
| I met Chris at a couple of local Ruby meetups in Bristol when he
| gave talks. He was an extremely smart, but also very personable
| guy. He seemed to really love what he was doing and relished the
| opportunity to explain it to people and share what he knew. He
| had a knack for explaining things really well in a way that never
| patronised when talking to people who were not experts in his
| domain. He had a real love of communicating what he knew to other
| people and his passion for his projects was infectious and
| inspiring.
|
| He was younger than me (mid 30s?), but managed to pack an immense
| amount into that time. He was one of those people I've met who
| I've immediately thought "I need to be more like that". Genuinely
| inspirational. His death is a real loss to the community.
| vips7L wrote:
| This made me incredibly sad. I didn't know him, but always
| enjoyed his insightful comments here on Ruby, Truffle, and the
| JVM.
| vidarh wrote:
| I only met him once, fairly briefly, and exchanged a few messages
| about our shared interest in compilers. But he seemed like a nice
| guy, and it's incredibly sad to see this.
| ridicthrow wrote:
| Throwaway account. Not a troll comment at all.
|
| I wish people would stop treating suicide as a mental illness and
| posting phone numbers to suicide hotlines like it's somehow wrong
| and an intervention is needed. It's shallow and dismissive, and
| you're no closer to understanding why people choose to take their
| own lives. It is entirely devoid of "empathy" that is being
| preached today as some haute virtue in people.
|
| When someone wants to go, let them go. There's no shame, and
| hiding their actions behind shrouded veils ("has died") is
| petulant behaviour.
|
| The man killed himself. Respect it. Don't play tonedeaf like the
| "thoughts and prayers" idiots, posting phones and saying "seek
| help!". It's not helping.
|
| PS. As someone who knows the torture that people who answer those
| suicide hotlines go through, I assure you, you're left with
| psychologically damaged individuals. There's not a single
| individual there who is all smiles and mentally balanced after
| taking those calls. There are no "professionals" in that
| profession. Think about that for a moment.
| swypych wrote:
| It is a mental health issue, it is treatable, and it is
| preventable.
|
| There is a lot of literature on the topic, and awareness is an
| important aspect to treating this mental health issue. I never
| got the sense people are shaming the person, or there is a lack
| of respect. Additionally, where "thoughts and prayers" will
| hardly provide any actual good (YMMV), a suicide hotline might
| be the saving element for someone who may also be suffering.
| djur wrote:
| My experiences as a person who has been suicidal, who has been
| close to suicidal people, and who has had friends who committed
| suicide all tell me that it's not as simple as "wanting to
| die". The same person can feel completely different about their
| continued viability as a living person within the same hour.
| The version of that person who wants to continue living is just
| as worthy of respect. And we can only reach out to and support
| the people who are still alive.
| HideousKojima wrote:
| >like it's somehow wrong and an intervention is needed.
|
| >When someone wants to go, let them go.
|
| Strong disagree, especially in cases where they have family and
| loved ones. Children and grandchildren have a moral right to
| continue seeing and enjoying time with their parents and
| grandparents. Spouses have a moral right to continue enjoying
| life with their beloved best friend. Outside of family I would
| say there probably isn't a moral right, or at least a
| significantly diminished one, but suicide takes away the
| positive influence and presence that someone has on their
| friends and community.
|
| The only part of your post that I do agree with is that we
| should stop euphemizing news about suicide. I had a friend from
| high school who committed suicide while serving in the army in
| Iraq, and the official press release from the military made no
| mention of his cause of death. He was in a non-combat role that
| wouldn't have put him in any danger of getting shot or blown
| up. It wasn't until a few years later when I ran into his
| sister that I found out the real reason (though I had my
| suspicions).
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| If you've never been clinically depressed and suicidal I can
| understand how you feel that way. But depression is treatable,
| and suicidal thoughts are generally not rational nor "typical,"
| even for the person experiencing them. But they feel like
| ground truth at the moment. But with help that moment passes.
|
| There are some that it never does, and I can see an argument
| there's no point in letting them suffer forever. There are some
| that have rationally decided to end their life and they're not
| feeling suicidal per se but are making a choice.
|
| But the VAST majority of the time the suicidal intention
| passes, and their future self likely is glad if they got help.
|
| Source: I've been depressed and suicidal. I am not now and I
| love life. But I remember clearly how differently I thought at
| that time.
| ridicthrow wrote:
| > If you've never been clinically depressed and suicidal I
| can understand how you feel that way.
|
| Not dismissive at all.
| d3nj4l wrote:
| A few days ago chris responded to a silly comment of mine on here
| (completely unrelated to ruby or compilers), and when I saw it I
| thought, "oh, it's Chris Seaton! I hope he's doing well!"
|
| It's so unfortunate he was not. RIP.
| wpeterson wrote:
| Ugh, what a loss for this community and the Ruby community.
|
| This should be worthy of a Hacker News black banner today.
| pjmlp wrote:
| What a loss, we discussed so many times about compiler related
| subjects.
|
| My sentiments and thoughts for the family and friends.
| icedchai wrote:
| I didn't know him personally, but immediately recognized the name
| and always enjoyed his comments here. Very sad.
| adwn wrote:
| Really unsettling to think that just 4 days ago, right before his
| death, he was still posting here on HN. [1]
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=chrisseaton
| orra wrote:
| It's a shock, yes, but worth knowing it's a common one.
|
| "They can't be dead: I just spoke to them" is a common response
| to death. Unfortunately, death can be rather sudden.
| petercooper wrote:
| I find the statistics surrounding death to be quite sobering.
| I was at an annual event with 1000 other people and for
| whatever reason got to wondering if everyone would return the
| next year. Being a nerd, some calculations occurred and it
| turned out that would be pretty much impossible as at least a
| few attendees would die (of any cause) before then. It's
| rather stoic but makes me appreciate things a little more.
|
| The Ruby community has lost some fantastic people. Chris,
| Jason Seifer, Steven Bristol, Jim Weirich, James Golick, and
| Ezra Zygmuntowicz all come to mind. RIP.
| buffington wrote:
| Losing Ezra hit me pretty hard. He was a founder at Engine
| Yard, and I was a customer for many years. He landed me as
| a customer because he came out and met me, and without any
| sort of discussion about business or anything, he just dove
| into helping architect a solution. I was sold immediately.
|
| Years later I worked closely with him on helping him get
| his 3D printer company off the ground. Sadly though, he
| died right in the middle of a very challenging time for him
| and his company.
|
| The Ruby community has certainly lost a lot of people like
| Chris and Jim (yet another selfless giant) and Ezra.
|
| The only consolation I can think of is how many more
| selfless people are in the Ruby community still. And not
| just the Ruby community, but so many communities just like
| it.
|
| It never hurts to reach out to people, even if you think
| they won't respond. If you appreciate someone, tell them.
| It doesn't need to be over the top praise (unless it is
| over-the-top-praise-worthy).
|
| It can be simple. For example, I just sent this to someone
| who I was thinking about just now: "<name>, thank you for
| taking the time to patiently respond to comments in the PR
| I submitted. You helped clear up some confusion that I
| wasn't even aware I'd introduced when describing <the
| implementation of a complicated thing>. You freed up at
| least a few hours of my day, which I'm really grateful
| for."
| jacquesm wrote:
| The Ruby community also seems to attract a lot of fantastic
| people. I'm not a part of it and never have been but from
| the outside looking in it looks like one of the most
| welcoming eco-systems out there.
| CHY872 wrote:
| Oh man, it was always awesome to find something from this dude!
| He'll be missed.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Chris often challenged me on discussions about UK politics. It is
| always important to hear different viewpoints, and I will miss
| that.
|
| He lived within an hours drive from here. Which somehow makes it
| worse. This is not exactly Silicon Valley and people of his
| caliber are not everywhere to talk to.
|
| He was pretty high up in the Army Reserve as well as his day job.
| It is humbling how much some people fit into a short life. My
| thoughts to his family and colleagues
| lordnacho wrote:
| He wrote a lot of thoughtful contributions here. Very sad to see
| him go.
| GrahamSeaton wrote:
| As a teenage, Chris (or Kit as some in his family knew him) made
| pocket-money from a programme he wrote in his bedroom in
| Chandlers Ford call password safe. RIP
| gozali wrote:
| Gone too soon #RIPChrisSeaton
| infinitedata wrote:
| He basically announced his 'permanent-rest' via twitter. So sad
| but grounding for all of us to remember that there are things way
| more important past the marvelous inventions we can code or make.
|
| For learning purposes, anyone knows what was his major cause of
| frustration?
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| > For learning purposes, anyone knows what was his major cause
| of frustration?
|
| Suicide isn't because of frustration. Everyone has
| frustrations, most don't kill themselves because of it.
| OJFord wrote:
| I do think it's interesting that it's so widely stigmatised
| (illegal even) though: like we've collectively decided life
| is meaningful and must be lived to the best of your ability,
| deciding there's nothing in it for you and you don't want to
| take part is not (with very niche old-age && ill-health
| exception) allowed.
|
| Weird, when you step back and think about it isn't it? If
| you're agnostic/atheist at least.
| starkd wrote:
| Murdering your self is still murder. There are other
| victims besides the person committing it. The reason why it
| is a taboo subject is because it is contagious in a way.
| When the idea is broadcast at large, there is an increasing
| likelihood that people on the edge will follow through.
| Suicide should not be romanticized or indulged.
| tasuki wrote:
| You do raise valid points.
|
| On the other hand, Chris Seaton was apparently done with
| it. I think that's his prerogative, and he handled it
| gracefully.
| rob74 wrote:
| I guess it's the same as with the death penalty: it's a
| decision that's very permanent and irrevocable. Someone may
| be convinced that "there's nothing in it for them" now, but
| are you really sure they would feel the same in a few
| months or a few years?
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| But if you have been feeling that way for many years,
| with non-stop feelings of dread, it's hard to see things
| getting any better.
| starkd wrote:
| I suspect that is very seldom the case. Depression is
| cyclical. There are moments of joy and content. I think
| it speaks to a loss of hope in society at large.
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| There are moments of joy and content, but for myself I
| always personally know that hell is just over the hill.
| Doesn't mean I can't enjoy things. But I suppose there
| comes a time when some people just get too tired of it
| all. I also personally believe the act of taking your own
| life is utterly courageous... every cell in our body's
| are designed to want to live. Pushing fast fear of the
| ultimate unknown is something else. And anyone out there
| who says crap like "the cowards way out" is an absolute
| pea brain in my eyes.
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| Being downvoted for these points is a clear (and
| uncomfortable for mentally healthy people to digest)
| example of why depressed people often feel it's pointless
| to speak and be honest about their thoughts. Because they
| feel no one wants to hear them.
| starkd wrote:
| There is a fine line between being honest with your
| thoughts and indulging in unhelpful solutions as anything
| other than unhelpful. Life is not about living on the
| terms you choose. You inherit the terms under which you
| are to live. Rejecting those terms is indeed cowardly.
| Being able to adapt is what takes courage. (And I say
| this with full awareness of my own limitations as well.)
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| What solutions are you referring to? I didn't give any
| solutions, did I?
| [deleted]
| starkd wrote:
| Proposing suicide as a solution. It is quite cowardly,
| because you are rejecting the terms life handed you.
| Courage is persisting through to finding a way of living
| on those terms.
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| In absolutely no way on earth did I propose suicide as a
| solution - what vile nonsense. Maybe read something
| properly before throwing a damaging allegation like that.
| Pfft. I'm done commenting any more on this topic with
| you.
| starkd wrote:
| Not you specifically. I'm sorry if that was the
| impression.
| wnolens wrote:
| Calling someone a coward is insulting regardless. Let's
| not put that label on folks near the edge - you have no
| idea what they dealing with. It might bring you to your
| knees far earlier.
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| Absolutely 100%. We hear it all the time though. And
| imagine how hurtful it is for families and friends to
| hear that drivel about a loved one. Makes my blood boil.
| starkd wrote:
| It's not about putting a label on anyone. It's about
| making sure it doesn't inadvertently become a model for
| others. No counselor or friend is going to be there when
| they are alone and make the decision.
| marcinzm wrote:
| To some people simply living for some time requires more
| courage than any reasonable person would muster in a
| lifetime. Reprimanding them for not having even more
| courage seems a sad thing to say.
| brigandish wrote:
| Lack of hope is the real killer, that's why it's so
| important to give a depressed person hope. Not optimism,
| hope.
| WhackyIdeas wrote:
| You can't give a depressed person hope though. And even
| if you could box hope up, how would you make it last? At
| the end of the day, depression is a chemical imbalance
| and hope isn't going realistically fix that - maybe that
| depression is a result of brain injury, like a nasty bump
| on the head that has permanently damaged the way the
| brain works... Depression is a long way off being solved.
| OJFord wrote:
| Even that suggests that living life is some kind of
| 'default' or 'obviously correct' state, that anything
| else has to supply sufficient reason to deviate from. Why
| should that be so, really? Just because we are born into
| it?
|
| To be pithy: why must death justify itself, but not life?
| tasuki wrote:
| > Not optimism, hope.
|
| What is the difference?
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Optimism is trying to convince yourself things are better
| than they are, hope is the idea that things can actually
| get better.
| Lio wrote:
| I would speculate that the societal stigmatisation of
| suicide is a form of social "guard-rails" that might keep
| someone from stepping to far in the wrong direction during
| a moment of weakness.
|
| It might be the last thing that saves them when they are
| not in their right mind and have lost all hope and
| perspective. In that moment anything that can be done to
| protect them should be done because there is always hope,
| even if you can't see it right now.
|
| Things do change.
| themaninthedark wrote:
| One of the things I often hear said about people who
| attempt suicide but fail by jumping is that they have a
| moment of clarity on the way down that their problems are
| not a big deal and are solvable except the current one of
| imminent death.
|
| Not sure if this is true in all cases and what the
| outcome for these people is after time passes, do they
| still feel depressed or are things better for them.
|
| But, if that is the general experience, then it makes
| sense for society to stigmatize the action.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| I wouldn't say I agree but can understand the point of
| view.
|
| I think a lot of people would feel differently about
| someone who takes his own life because of a terminal
| illness such as cancer, where it's seen as a way to end up
| in the same place while avoiding a lot of pain and
| suffering. "Death with dignity." So why don't we feel the
| same way about someone with painful, debilitating
| depression? We don't really understand how to cure
| depression. We have some drugs that help some people,
| analagous to what narcotics do for people in physical pain.
| But we don't understand how to cure depression, as we don't
| understand how to cure cancer. Maybe someday we will, but
| what does that do for the people suffering today, who just
| want a way out?
| throw10920 wrote:
| This comment exemplifies a pattern of rather useless comments
| that I've seen a lot of online recently, that are analogous
| to "contradiction - stating the opposing case with little or
| no evidence" on the argument pyramid: when a commentator X
| states a thing, commentator Y states that that thing isn't
| true, with no supporting evidence, but more importantly no
| additional value or elaboration added - just saying "that's
| wrong" without explaining why, or saying what is actually the
| case.
|
| For instance, here, value would be added by stating what
| _are_ the actual causes of suicide - or even adding research
| that supports your point even if you don 't want to talk
| about what the actual causes are.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| Fair enough, but most people do know the _actual_ cause...
| Namely mental illness or depression.
| dctoedt wrote:
| And sadly, we know _so ... freaking ... little_ about how
| the brain works.
| vintermann wrote:
| Frustration is just a word. It's maybe not the optimal word
| for it, but we understand what's meant: the situations on the
| inside and outside that made him consider such a choice.
|
| Keep in mind many people on HN (incl. me) don't even speak
| English as a first language.
| tuyiown wrote:
| Suicide is very personal, should be treated as an extremely
| complex issue that its uniqueness for each cannot be expressed
| in details correct enough to respect the regretted.
|
| I know you just want to know if any major points could stand
| out to bring some understanding, and they are probably some,
| but it's important to treat it as a might be relavant, but
| always small, piece of a the vastness of one's mind can be.
| freedomben wrote:
| I would have agreed fully with you for most of my life, but
| having now lost half a dozen friends to suicide, I think
| we're making a big mistake by not talking about it honestly
| and openly. Not only is it much harder for the friends/loved
| ones who are left in the dark about what happened, but it
| misses opportunities for learning and understanding. Most
| people who have never been ready to kill themselves have no
| idea what it's like, the hopelessness, the weariness, and
| worst of all the lies your mind tells you.
|
| I do insist on being classy and respectful, particularly for
| the family members, but I wish as a society we would talk
| openly and honestly about these issues instead of high
| opacity implications.
| wnolens wrote:
| Shit, half a dozen? I'm so sorry. Were you able to learn
| anything about their internal state prior?
| theGnuMe wrote:
| >Suicide is very personal, should be treated as an extremely
| complex issue that its uniqueness for each cannot be
| expressed in details correct enough to respect the regretted.
|
| Can you elaborate on what you mean here? Are you saying that
| every suicide is unique and out of respect for the dead we
| should not try to understand it?
| ngd wrote:
| When I was 15 I had to move high school after the death of my
| mother. I started to socialise at school and joined the
| investment club. It was a tough time for me and I desperately
| wanted to make friends and fit in. I wasn't really into investing
| but a young man by the name of Chris Seaton was building their
| website and I loved computers so I wanted to help. Chris taught
| me how to program, first HTML websites, then PHP based apps, then
| C# and VBA native apps. Im pretty sure Chris invented the
| password manager before it was a thing too.
|
| I spent the next few years at high school and sixth form trying
| to sit near Chris in lessons and talking to him on MSN Messenger
| and ICQ incessantly about programming, he taught me a lot and set
| me on a path to choosing computer science as my degree, I just
| copied him to be honest.
|
| I'll miss you Chris
| djur wrote:
| Thanks for sharing this. Please take care of yourself. There's
| something uniquely painful about losing someone who you look up
| to as a mentor.
| aphrax wrote:
| This a beautiful thing to share. I wish I'd known him and I'm
| sorry for your loss.
| GrahamSeaton wrote:
| As a teenager, Chris (or Kit as some of his family knew him)
| wrote a computer programme, in his bedroom in Chandlers Ford,
| he called Password Safe. RIP Kit
| MaxBarraclough wrote:
| He'll be missed. I didn't know him, but learnt something every
| time our paths met here.
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| If you have a lower baseline of happiness, please do yourself a
| favour and read Albert Camus' The Myth of Sisyphus.
|
| It starts with:
|
| There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is
| suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts
| to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the
| rest-- whether or not the world has three dimensions, whether the
| mind has nine or twelve categories--comes afterwards. These are
| games; one must first answer.
|
| Absurdism is a great way to live life and understand that nothing
| is worth killing yourself for.
| ksec wrote:
| About 10 years ago he started a project with Ruby running on
| Graal before it was known as TruffleRuby. I still remember those
| HN submissions. SubstrateVM, Graal, The VM to rule it all. And as
| far as I am aware, he was the only one putting all papers about
| Ruby and Compilers Design in a single place [1].
|
| I still remember a thread which I have bookmarked somewhere,
| where you have the lead of JVM, Graal, TruffleRuby, JSC, V8 and
| Spidermonkey along with another compiler expert arguing ( or in a
| heated debate ) about Dynamic languages. And when ever you have
| compiler related submission on HN, you will see him contribute
| his expertise on the subject.
|
| He has been a valuable member of the Ruby and HN Community. I
| once joked "I am a simple man, I see Chris Seaton, I Upvote :)."
| I still remember I felt honoured when he followed me on Twitter.
|
| He will surely be missed by many.
|
| R.I.P
|
| [1] https://rubybib.org
| freedomben wrote:
| As a fellow Rubyist and HN reader I know what you mean! There
| was always something mindblowing from Chris in the thread,
| usually multiple things. There's a big hole in my heart today.
| leetrout wrote:
| Please talk to someone if you are feeling hopeless.
|
| U.S. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 800-273-TALK (8255)
|
| National Suicide Helpline UK 0800 689 5652
|
| His HN profile was also just his name
| https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=chrisseaton
|
| I wish the best for his family and friends over the next few
| months. This will be a tough holiday season for them.
|
| You never know what is going on in someone's life and no clue
| what was going on in his but I think working in tech is harder
| than people recognize / give credit (and may not have any bearing
| on Chris, I am not trying to speculate).
|
| Please talk to someone if you are feeling hopeless.
|
| U.S. National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 800-273-TALK (8255)
|
| National Suicide Helpline UK 0800 689 5652
| zwaps wrote:
| If you are struggling with self-worth, please read very
| carefully the posts of people who actually knew Chris Seaton.
| People value him by how much of himself and his time he was
| willing to give to others, not by some absolute measure of his
| skill. This is a capacity everyone has.
|
| In fact, you probably have touched someone (if unknowingly) in
| a similar manner. People who decide to go, very very often
| leave behind a heart shattered to pieces - unknowingly.
| noneeeed wrote:
| In the UK the Samaritans how have a short number 116 123.
| adamc wrote:
| Having been on the other end of it... the reality is harsh.
| People say they want to know, but in fact... they mostly don't.
| The reality of it is hard to deal with. It can go on and on.
|
| People have a lot of misconceptions, sometimes for good reasons
| (it makes life easier to endure). It's a lot like the pushback
| on #metoo or #blacklivesmatter or <almost anything linked to
| traumatic experience>. They want to make it your fault because
| then its not something they have to think about.
|
| I think depression is mostly orthogonal to where you work,
| although stress may make it worse.
| silisili wrote:
| I agree with this. Someone reaching out because they have a
| problem or need someone to talk to is perfectly welcomed.
| Someone who does so daily becomes a big f'ing drag on your
| life, pardon the expression.
|
| My father did that to us kids after divorce, and our
| relationship has never been the same.
|
| (For those curious, he didn't hurt himself, just became an
| angry, sad, drunk yearslong drag on us all).
| Jensson wrote:
| silisili wrote:
| I'd have preferred he not leave drunken angry voicemails
| every time I didn't answer the phone, and sought
| professional help. Which he did, eventually, but after 2
| years of verbal abuse and telling us we were dead to him.
| Jensson wrote:
| adamc wrote:
| As someone who's been through depression and has an
| estranged son (for reasons that were never even
| articulated)... being angry doesn't help. Their choices
| may be no more free than our own.
|
| Sometimes the universe gives us tough choices.
| Jensson wrote:
| Depressed people often do a lot of things they later
| regret. Doesn't mean they could have done it any other
| way, just that would prefer to not have done it.
|
| > Sometimes the universe gives us tough choices.
|
| Yeah, like accepting when an asshole reaches out or
| letting him kill himself. I don't think it is wrong to
| try to reach out when you are too mentally unstable to be
| nice to people, in fact that is probably the time when
| you should reach out the most because you are very likely
| to kill yourself then because that anger can easily turn
| inwards. But there really are no perfect ways to handle
| that, the best solution is to never get that bad to begin
| with but when you are there you can't really get out of
| it without burning something.
| whats_a_quasar wrote:
| This was definitely my experience. It takes so long and so
| much effort to get out of a deep depression that it strains
| everyone around you.
|
| If anyone's gone through or is going through something
| similar, I highly recommend "The Noonday Demon." It captures
| much of the subjective experience of someone going through a
| depression, and how weird and frustrating the experience can
| be for everyone involved. https://www.amazon.com/Noonday-
| Demon-Atlas-Depression/dp/150...
| altendo wrote:
| In the US, dialing 988 will also get you access to the National
| Suicide Prevention Lifeline. (Technically it is now the 988
| Lifeline, but they both refer to the same thing[1].)
|
| 1: https://988lifeline.org/current-events/the-lifeline-and-988/
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| You can also dial or text 988 in the US.
|
| https://988lifeline.org/
| naedish wrote:
| Support services for other countries below.
|
| https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mental_health_resources
| [deleted]
| jacquesm wrote:
| Gah that so sucks. He left behind a wife and young daughter. Such
| a nice man, this really is painful.
| gavinray wrote:
| What terrible news to wake up to.
|
| I hate when they say "passed away" -- here was a man in his
| prime, just the other week sharing knowledge of compilers at a
| conference, taken from the world.
|
| Chris helped me frequently on the GraalVM slack, and it was nice
| to see his face in the comments of many of the threads here on HN
| that had to do with compilers and compiler optimizations. I will
| miss him.
| foobazgt wrote:
| I wasn't privileged to know Chris personally, but I was always
| keenly waiting to hear his latest achievements and insights. He
| was clearly talented, passionate, and compassionate. It is so
| very sad to see him go.
|
| Depression is a full blown pandemic. For example, in the US in
| 2021, there were approximately as many suicide attempts as there
| were COVID deaths. It is so fucked up and so pernicious.
|
| We (rightfully) encourage folks to seek help, but the very nature
| of the illness makes it difficult for them. Let's all also do our
| best to recognize the signs of folks struggling so that we can be
| there for them - to help them recover when it's so hard for them
| to even reach out for help.
| nazgulsenpai wrote:
| His personal website for those, like me, who didn't know the
| name.
|
| https://chrisseaton.com/
|
| Even without knowing of him, this is incredibly tragic and my
| condolences to all of those affected.
| tiffanyh wrote:
| Internet Archive.
|
| Does anyone know how to recursively save his entire website to
| Wayback Machine?
|
| I submitted https://chrisseaton.com, but it doesn't appear any of
| the child pages are being archived.
| nirvdrum wrote:
| If it helps any, Chris's web site used GitHub Pages and its
| source is available at
| https://github.com/chrisseaton/chrisseaton.github.io.
| eatonphil wrote:
| There's no particular guarantee that this will stick around
| either as Github/MS changes policies down the line. Some
| guaranteed long-term archive like archive.org would be
| better.
| nirvdrum wrote:
| Right. I don't know if that GitHub account will be around
| forever, but you can clone it now and build the site. If it
| came to it, we could host on another domain. I'm just
| suggesting that we don't need to worry about archive.org
| getting every last bit of content.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Done. Will take some time for any straggler pages to show up in
| the CDX indexes.
| mossity wrote:
| It looks pretty well archived to me, where are you seeing
| things missing?
| Edd314159 wrote:
| It's not implausible that many of us who work with Ruby owe our
| livelihoods to Chris, and his relentless efforts to progress the
| language and not just keep it relevant, but thriving. He will be
| missed so much by the community.
| aardvark179 wrote:
| I worked with him on TruffleRuby for almost six years, and knew
| him for a few years before that. I think every one who knew him
| is shocked and saddened by this news.
| kshahkshah wrote:
| I'm sorry for your loss then. We followed each other on Twitter
| and I tried to plug the TruffleRuby and Graal work wherever I
| could as I really believed it is the future of Ruby. Beyond
| that what a brilliant writer. This single article helped me
| understand so much more about a language I've cherished for
| nearly two decades:
| https://chrisseaton.com/truffleruby/deoptimizing/
| kshahkshah wrote:
| My god this is awful. He was brilliant, accomplished, and kind. A
| few days ago he announced his 'permanent rest'
| (https://twitter.com/ChrisGSeaton/status/1599108759183577088).
| I'd thought it meant from the Ruby community and that the replies
| asking if he needed help were reading too much into the wording.
| [deleted]
| swader999 wrote:
| The outpouring of love in the replies on that thread. It is
| tough to comprehend how that wasn't enough to prevent this.
| bluerooibos wrote:
| Yeah. The guy had what appears to be a pretty great life.
| Looking through twitter, there's photos of him with his kids
| and wife.
|
| I just can't comprehend how someone can arrive at the
| decision to commit suicide, especially when you have a wife
| and children, and to then tweet about it. The human mind is
| an odd thing.
| paufernandez wrote:
| The depressed sees the same events quite differently, that's
| why it is so difficult to understand for many people (I can
| though).
| freedomben wrote:
| Indeed. The human mind is wildly talented at lying to us in
| sometimes sinister ways.
|
| It's hard to imagine if you haven't been there, but in the
| moment you are seriously thinking about it, your mind can
| truly convince you that your
| family/spouse/kids/friends/work/church/etc will all be
| better off without you, even though that is virtually never
| true. Don't trust your mind when it tells you things like
| that.
| swader999 wrote:
| Right, I've read that for them its not even seen as making
| a choice. Earth is too freaking hard sometimes.
| sasattack wrote:
| It's not a choice. It's not seen as a choice. The Choice
| is not between life-and-death but between suffering and
| ending your suffering. This is how the suicidal mind
| thinks. When suffering becomes greater than any other
| emotion it It's like a pressure that has to be relieved
| djur wrote:
| When I've been in that place, other people's kindness can
| feel like evidence that I'm hurting them -- that I'm
| drawing energy from them, that I'm a hole in the world that
| needs to be repaired but can't, that kind of thing. (That
| isn't to say that such displays of appreciation and love
| can't also be helpful and welcomed.)
| munificent wrote:
| Like many mental illnesses, depression interferes with your
| perceptions. It's not that that love "wasn't enough", it's
| that a person deep in depression can't even accurately see or
| feel that love.
| swader999 wrote:
| Yeah and it is especially hard for high achievers to ask
| for help or even consider that they should ask for help. I
| think its completely foreign to them.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| Depression might not even really be about love. Seems like
| aggression plays a big role in it too.
| kunalgupta wrote:
| Oh no. I read the initially and thought it was about twitter.
| :( rest in peace.
| HL33tibCe7 wrote:
| Desperately sad news. I never met him, he never met Me, but
| https://chrisseaton.com/army/ made a real impression on me. It's
| the kind of thing that sits in your head and pops up from time to
| time. I found the level of dedication here alongside his
| professional success incredibly inspiring. Tragically, part of
| that article is about his young daughter.
|
| Not really sure what to think now.
| bostonwalker wrote:
| Like you his article about the army reserve made an impression
| on me. I myself am a serving officer in the Canadian Army
| reserve and I reached out to him to connect. He was generous
| with his time and we were chatting about work, life, and army
| stuff this year. He offered help in finding me a role within
| Shopify and most recently he congratulated me on finishing my
| junior officer training.
|
| Chris was not just a great technologist but also an officer and
| a gentleman. Rest in peace, Sir.
| pwdisswordfish9 wrote:
| This part had something about it that stuck out in light of the
| news (first just a bit, but then it kept going):
|
| "My fantastic job with Shopify meets my physiological and
| safety needs, and the job is rewarding and intellectually
| stimulating (not many people get to work on their PhD work for
| so long with a team they've built around them and I'm very
| grateful.) But then what? What are you doing to feel alive and
| to know that you matter? How do you fit into something enduring
| and bigger than yourself? The Army challenges me every week,
| and those challenges better me and make me happier. I know that
| people are depending on me, and that if I don't turn up and
| lead my Squadron then nobody's going to do that for me."
|
| Like you, not sure what to think.
| wnolens wrote:
| Indeed, he seemed to have all the things that generally is
| believed to combat that trend towards darkness.
|
| However, I recall my absolute lowest and the first time I
| entertained the thought to end it, the 'it' was specifically
| what it felt like to be in my body. It wasn't a matter of
| self-worth, it was to stop pain. The strongest reason I could
| come up with to wait for it to pass was the pain it would
| cause my mother.
|
| So, I don't know.
| sbuccini wrote:
| This cuts deep. Chris had a big impact on my current life
| trajectory, one that is still playing out -- which is why I was
| holding off on reaching out with an update. Now I'll never get
| that chance.
|
| Chris seemed to be _everywhere_ and was always generous with his
| time, even to complete newbies like myself. He certainly set the
| standard, as one would expect from an Army officer. I'm not
| exactly sure what his experiences were like in active duty, but
| we lose way too many vets to mental health issues. If you know a
| veteran, consider checking in -- this time of year is
| particularly tough.
| cinntaile wrote:
| https://twitter.com/ChrisGSeaton/status/1599108759183577088
|
| I didn't know him but recognized the name from HN.
| ehPReth wrote:
| I saw this tweet just randomly in the AI timeline and brushed
| it off as him just being busy/done/taking a break from open
| source ruby work.. maybe moving on to something else or just
| picking a different hobby. Quite a shock to see this today
| freedomben wrote:
| everybody did. it's horrifying now, but people as smart as
| Chris that are going to do it, are going to do it. They know
| that tipping the hand too early will result in forced
| prevention (something we as a society have messed up about
| but that's a separate post). He worded it that way on
| purpose. In my opinion as a kindness so he could say goodbye
| rather than just disappearing without a sound.
| docdeek wrote:
| The tweet seems to imply this was not an unexpected death on
| his part. Was he unwell?
| djmips wrote:
| A form of a suicide note possibly. I hope I'm not reading it
| wrong but that's what I took from his post especially in
| context of his sudden passing.
| bluerooibos wrote:
| I saw photos of him presenting at the Ruby conference just a
| week ago and he looks pretty healthy.
| yla92 wrote:
| I saw this tweet and I was wondering about the language used
| there like "permanent rest" but was thinking he was going to
| delete his Twitter account. Will miss seeing his comments on HN
| and his contributions. RIP, Chris.
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