[HN Gopher] FreeBSD on the Raspberry Pi
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       FreeBSD on the Raspberry Pi
        
       Author : mariuz
       Score  : 170 points
       Date   : 2022-12-05 09:20 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (cromwell-intl.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (cromwell-intl.com)
        
       | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
       | Title is somewhat misleading IMO; the page _does_ discuss setting
       | up FreeBSD on a Pi, but it 's mostly _about_ setting up samba on
       | top of that.
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Bad links inside. Should point to
       | https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/Raspberry%20Pi
        
         | klondike_klive wrote:
         | Not only that but one of those GDPR dialog boxes that forces
         | you to untick thirty different "legitimate interest" buttons
         | then click through to the vendor list and give up. I thought
         | these vampires were bound by law to require one or two clicks
         | to opt out?
        
       | Sunspark wrote:
       | I recently powered on my model 1 B for the first time to see what
       | it was like.
       | 
       | The Linux desktop experience on this single core device is
       | horrific.
       | 
       | What is MUCH more impressive is RiscOS on it. It flies. The whole
       | OS is written in assembler. It's fast. It's a what-if of
       | computing.
       | https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/raspberry-pi if
       | you're curious to take a look.
       | 
       | Curiosity of RiscOS aside, those single core 700 MHz devices I
       | would only advise using them in terminal mode, no desktop,
       | whether Linux, FreeBSD or something else.
        
         | sedatk wrote:
         | > The whole OS is written in assembler.
         | 
         | That's just not true. It's full of C code, even the HAL, which
         | is a good thing by the way:
         | https://gitlab.riscosopen.org/RiscOS/Sources/HAL/HAL_OMAP5/-...
        
         | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
         | What exactly does "Linux desktop experience" mean. For example,
         | what distribution and what version of Linux for the RPi was
         | used in the test.
         | 
         | Even though I had no plans to run Linux on the RPi I saved the
         | "NOOBS" SD card that came with it. It contained specific,
         | presumably "known-to-work" versions of Arch, RaspBMC, Pidora,
         | OpenELEC, RISC and Raspbian. I knew that those offerings would
         | probably balloon in size, or possibly disappear, as the RPi
         | project progressed.1 It was early days for the RPi and I was
         | not sure I would be able to easily access those old versions
         | going forward. It is wonderful see one can still conveniently
         | get them (kudos to RPi Foundation):
         | 
         | https://downloads.raspberrypi.org/NOOBS/images/
         | 
         | Based on past experience with computers and software, I
         | concluded that years later the most recent versions of these OS
         | for the RPi would not run smoothly on an old Model B. To be
         | truthful, I still have not tried. Maybe I am wrong, but it
         | sounds like running, e.g., the latest Raspbian on an old Model
         | B would not be a pleasant experience.
         | 
         | Being someone who prefers "terminal mode" over the
         | alternatives, I have always used NetBSD. It was perhaps the
         | first BSD to boot the RPi. It was certainly the first BSD,
         | perhaps the first OS for the RPi, to come with sshd pre-
         | configured so that one could use the RPi "headless" without the
         | need for a serial cable.
         | 
         | Most importantly, AFAIK, NetBSD was the only OS for the RPi
         | that, by default, allowed the SD card to be removed after boot.
         | I recall reading so many comments about SD card wear-and-tear
         | but I have never run the RPi with an SD card mounted R/W.
         | Normally I only use the SD card slot for booting and run the
         | computer with the slot empty.
         | 
         | 1. Original NOOBs was 1.1GB. Latest NOOBS is 2.7GB.
        
       | psychphysic wrote:
       | Here[0] is an actual link discussing freebsd on the raspberry pi.
       | 
       | Most people can skip to the section on prebuilt images and note
       | that the default user account is `freebsd` with the same as the
       | password. And the `root` account has password `root`.
       | 
       | Finally `freebsd-update`* will not work and so you must flash a
       | new image to update. Images are updated approximately weekly.
       | 
       | FreeBSD makes this much easier (rigid directory structure
       | simplifies where what to backup) than if you had to do the same
       | with Linux but it is still a chore backing up installed programs
       | and config files.
       | 
       | [0] https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/Raspberry%20Pi
       | 
       | * apparently working as of fbsd 13 on arm64 (?rpi3+ but not on
       | 0,1,2 this article is on the rpi1). See nreilly reply below.
        
         | nreilly wrote:
         | FreeBSD update does work fine. This started with aarch64 being
         | promoted to a Tier 1 architecture in FreeBSD-13.
        
           | psychphysic wrote:
           | That's a good point.
           | 
           | From Rpi3 onwards then?
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | Yes aarm64 since RELEASE 13
        
         | nix23 wrote:
         | >Finally `freebsd-update`* will not work and so you must flash
         | a new image to update. Images are updated approximately weekly.
         | 
         | It works (arm64 >FBSD13), my DNS server is RPI3 and FB13.1, all
         | Tier 1 platforms support binary updates:
         | 
         | https://www.freebsd.org/platforms/
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | petre wrote:
       | Does WiFi work yet?
        
       | heyflyguy wrote:
       | Everytime I read one of these I wonder..."where'd you get a
       | raspi?"
        
       | rawoke083600 wrote:
       | FreeBSD, LISP,Emacs, and a mountain top solitude ? Is this the
       | Zen, we all seek even come if we don't know it ??
        
       | rahen wrote:
       | For those interested, OpenBSD also works on the Rasp Pi. The Pi 4
       | is supported officially.
       | 
       | https://www.openbsd.org/arm64.html
       | 
       | https://dev.to/spacial/installing-openbsd-7-on-raspberry-pi-...
       | 
       | This makes it a great choice for a small node requiring security.
        
         | 1MachineElf wrote:
         | From 2014-2017, I used small Linux-capable SBCs running BSD as
         | a "router on a stick" for my home network.
         | 
         | At first I was running FreeBSD on a Rasberry Pi 2 (not the
         | Model B version). There was some bug at the time that made Vim
         | unusable over a serial terminal, so in spite of it always
         | working and never requiring a reboot, I decided to look for
         | another solution.
         | 
         | The solution was OpenBSD running on a Beaglebone Green. It was
         | actually easier to set up, just as stable, and the pf syntax
         | was even simpler.
         | 
         | Were I to go with a similar setup today, I'd prefer something
         | that:
         | 
         | - has multiple NICs
         | 
         | - can be tuned to boot very fast
         | 
         | - capable of rolling-back updates/changes
         | 
         | - runs NSH[0]
         | 
         | The 3rd point is something NSH could facilitate for the network
         | configuration. For system-level changes, I suppose the best I
         | could do on OpenBSD is use CARP between two OpenBSD systems,
         | and switch between the two as I apply and test updates.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.nmedia.net/nsh/
        
           | kjs3 wrote:
           | I run OpenBSD on a NUC-like from Seeed studio for this. Don't
           | recall which model, but has a decently strong Atom, dual
           | GigE, plenty of memory and an NVME slot. And Rpi compatable
           | GPIO, which has some interesting possibilities. Has worked
           | flawlessly for several years.
        
             | jon_adler wrote:
             | Probably the Odyssey Blue, which uses a Celeron rather than
             | an Atom CPU. I disabled the fan so it is silent, and the
             | temperature stays very stable (and pretty low). It's a
             | wonderful device. I've programmed the Arduino and use it
             | with Home Assistant (serial sensor). My Odyssey Blue is
             | virtualised using Proxmox and also runs OpenWrt (router),
             | Home Assistant, UniFi Controller, Plex, Transmission, CUPS,
             | SAMBA and more. It still has plenty and ram and CPU left
             | too, if I only I could think of anything else I want to run
             | on it.
        
         | asmor wrote:
         | Or it would, if the Pi 4 didn't have a street price of 100+
         | even for the 2GB model.
         | 
         | We're getting to the point where buying a barebone x86 system
         | on Aliexpress is cheaper than some of these ARM development
         | boards, definitely not something I saw coming.
        
           | mirekrusin wrote:
           | What's going on? I'm pretty sure I got 8GB one some time ago
           | for peanuts?
        
             | seanw444 wrote:
             | High demand, low supply.
        
               | destitude wrote:
               | More like no supply.
        
           | phoehne wrote:
           | When you add performance as a consideration, for just
           | straight computing tasks, you might also want to consider a
           | refurbished or used 1 liter PC. They'll have a 6th or 8th
           | generation intel CPU and power draws usually below 60 watts.
           | There are also some other alternatives like Orange Pi.
           | Generally speaking, some of the other options don't have a
           | PoE capability (my Pis are all PoE) and you lose the exposed
           | GPIO pins. But if you're just running a web server and don't
           | care about PoE or hooking an i2c device to it, used 1 liter
           | machines aren't a bad way to go.
        
             | implements wrote:
             | Just as a heads-up, OpenBSD isn't a great low wattage OS.
             | My NUC came with Ubuntu and sipped power at idle, but
             | OpenBSD doesn't idle well and (worse) doesn't SpeedStep on
             | mains power either.
        
               | anthk wrote:
               | Install and set obsdfreqd.
        
             | ridgered4 wrote:
             | > and power draws usually below 60 watts
             | 
             | That isn't really in the same class as the Pi though, it
             | seems the various models use somewhere in the range of
             | 1-6watt max.
        
             | smcl wrote:
             | Ahh I've accidentally been referring to all of these 1
             | litre PCs as "NUC"s - didn't realise there was a non-intel,
             | generic name for it
        
               | geerlingguy wrote:
               | Some also call them SFF (Small Form Factor) PCs but that
               | term for me typically means the slightly larger desktop
               | size PCs you could set a monitor on top of. The 1L PCs
               | are more like the thin clients hospitals have bolted on
               | their monitors.
               | 
               | ServeTheHome has a great ongoing series on
               | "TinyMiniMicro" computers that make great little home
               | servers.
        
               | ciupicri wrote:
               | SFF is about two, two and half stacked pizza boxes when
               | it comes to Dell OptiPlex and Lenovo ThinkCentre. There
               | is also USFF which is tiny, but still bigger than NUC.
        
           | LeoPanthera wrote:
           | You can still get them at retail price but you have to put a
           | mild amount of work into it.
           | 
           | https://rpilocator.com is an invaluable resource, especially
           | this guide: https://rpilocator.com/tips-and-tricks.cfm
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | OpenBSD still _supports_ it, regardless of whether users can
           | actually purchase the hardware. I mean, it also supports
           | loads of hardware that hasn 't even been manufactured in
           | years if not decades, so availability of the hardware on the
           | market is hardly its limiting factor.
        
         | peatmoss wrote:
         | Funny, I connected up an old rPi 3 that I wasn't using just
         | yesterday, and put OpenBSD on it for the first time. I wrote
         | the miniroot iso to my SD card using one of those cheapy camera
         | USB adapters on my desktop, then just installed to the SD card
         | after the miniroot was loaded into memory.
         | 
         | Very satisfying seeing the serial TTY come up with the familiar
         | ASCII spinner. My plan is to configure this to connect to wifi,
         | establish a VPN connection to somewhere, then set it up to
         | dispense an IP address and function as a NAT for anything
         | plugged into its ethernet port.
        
         | liendolucas wrote:
         | Is it still necessary to do the serial console procedure to
         | install it on the RaspberryPi? If that's the case does anyone
         | know _why_ I can do a simple `dd` with a FreeBSD image to the
         | SD card and boot the RaspberryPi but not with an OpenBSD image?
         | I tried once OpenBSD in my laptop and was extremely happy with
         | with it. Then for some reason that I can 't remember I switched
         | to FreeBSD which also makes me very happy.
        
           | Yuioup wrote:
           | I couldn't connect to the pi using the serial console. Linux
           | detects it and it gets logged in dmesg but the telnet doesn't
           | seem to work.
           | 
           | It could be that I have a faulty cable.
           | 
           | Oh it's on an rpi3 . Maybe the serial connection only works
           | on 4? The documentation doesn't say.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | Er, serial and telnet are very different things; what
             | exactly are you doing?
        
               | Yuioup wrote:
               | Oh sorry I meant `screen`
               | 
               | Basically these instructions:
               | 
               | https://dev.to/spacial/installing-openbsd-7-on-raspberry-
               | pi-...
               | 
               | But...
               | 
               | This was a while ago. It looks like the instructions for
               | OpenBSD have changed?
               | 
               | https://www.openbsd.org/arm64.html
               | 
               | Maybe I'll try again soon...
        
           | brynet wrote:
           | > Is it still necessary to do the serial console procedure to
           | install it on the RaspberryPi?
           | 
           | No, you can switch to a glass console by typing 'set tty fb0'
           | at the 'boot>' prompt.
           | 
           | https://cdn.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/7.2/arm64/INSTALL.arm64
        
       | tosh wrote:
       | I like the idea. Would there be any expected performance
       | differences between running ZFS on a Pi using FreeBSD instead of
       | Ubuntu?
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | That feels like something we'd need to actually benchmark for
         | real to test.
        
         | wil421 wrote:
         | ZFS without mirrored disks is kinda pointless.
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | No it's not; you still get _detection_ of errors (just
           | without correction), compression, arbitrary filesystems in a
           | single pool, and snapshots. ZFS is great regardless of RAID.
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | Exactly, that's why my offline/off-site backups are all
             | zfs, well and encryption and compression (zstd-19), at
             | least i know that something is damaged an can (or not) get
             | it from another backup.
        
           | modderation wrote:
           | You can always set copies=2 to work around block-level
           | failures on important datasets.
           | 
           | Beyond that, you still get all the other ZFS goodness for
           | management, snapshots, compression, zvols, error detection,
           | send/recv, and so forth. Best of all, you can always throw
           | another disk at it and convert to a mirror if the situation
           | changes.
        
         | agilob wrote:
         | This is rasbperry pi 1 the post is about. It's not a super
         | computer. Running updates and unpacking archives chokes the SD
         | and CPU on official raspbian with ext4. It only has 512MB of
         | memory, so ZFS would be killing it.
        
           | tosh wrote:
           | It sounds like FreeBSD also works on the Pi 3 and Pi 4:
           | 
           | https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm/Raspberry%20Pi
        
           | macshome wrote:
           | Yeah, the pi 1 is really slow for a lot of things these days.
           | While the post mentioned they started this on a pi 1B+,
           | everything else is about running things on model 3 units.
        
             | agilob wrote:
             | Yes, regardless whether RPI1 or 3. These boards are quite
             | weak. I wouldn't want file system to one of the biggest
             | bottlenecks on a running system. I had BRTFS on rpi3 before
             | and don't recommend it. Both FS are CoW.
        
         | ggm wrote:
         | I'd love to know this too. I have a zfs over 4 drives with the
         | radxa sata hat, running ubuntu and I'd much rather run FreeBSD
         | if I could. (Pi4, 8gb)
         | 
         | The great thing about zfs is the portability Linux to BSD and
         | vice versa, feature flags noted. I've done it many times on
         | racked servers.
         | 
         | The sad thing about the radxa card is that it presents as usb.
         | You don't want to run any raid-like fs over usb if you can
         | avoid it.
        
       | squarefoot wrote:
       | Hopefully this will also fuel interest to have OpnSense and
       | XigmaNAS fully ported to ARM. RasPIs scarcity aside, there are
       | many ARM boards from other vendors that could benefit from the
       | port. All it needs is driver support for one of these boards, or
       | similar ones.
       | 
       | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804400925663.html
       | 
       | https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804337466480.html
        
       | codetiger wrote:
       | No supply of any RPi computers in India for almost 2 years now.
       | :(
        
         | josefresco wrote:
         | Same in the US. I've used rpilocator.com extensively and never
         | seem to be fast enough. -\\_(tsu)_/
         | 
         | I don't understand why this shortage has continued for so long
         | - is it because they keep the price low?
        
           | jccooper wrote:
           | Continuously reload Adafruit's page from 10:30-10:45am
           | Central Wednesday and Thursday.
        
         | asddubs wrote:
         | yup, seems to be a worldwide problem.
        
         | phoehne wrote:
         | rpilocator.com tracks them. Jeff Greeling has a couple of good
         | YouTube videos on the problem. Sometimes, if you're willing to
         | wait, you can put in an order on a site like digikey and you'll
         | eventually get some at list price. But yeah, no one can get
         | them _at list price_. And for what scalpers are charging, or
         | the BS  'starter kit' that you might be forced to buy, get a
         | used thin client PC. The other options, like Nvidia's CM4 style
         | board, are just as hard to find or just as scalped.
        
           | geerlingguy wrote:
           | DigiKey seems to be the best bet, at least for some models.
           | It may take 1-3 months but they do seem to fill back orders
           | consistently.
           | 
           | Rpilocator tracks stock and has found some sites stick things
           | regularly once a week but if you don't buy within 10-20
           | minutes of the in stock alert, you'll miss it.
           | 
           | Even Upton said he thinks the supply will be getting better
           | to the point it'll be fully stocked again within one year.
        
           | GekkePrutser wrote:
           | Here in Europe kubii does preorders for list price. I got my
           | 400 with 3 or so weeks waiting. But yeah they really have to
           | start solving this issue otherwise raspberry is just going to
           | become obsolete.
        
             | VLM wrote:
             | Pi is done already.
             | 
             | For the last few years anyone doing "Circuit/Micro-Python
             | with GPIO" switched to ESP32 a long time ago, and the "I
             | need a small PC" people just went back to using small PCs.
        
         | rjsw wrote:
         | No supply of them in the UK either.
         | 
         | Are other ARM single-board computers easier for you to buy in
         | India? I have several from Pine64, CubieBoard and Hardkernel
         | that work well.
        
           | codetiger wrote:
           | Not able to source others in India. But am very much
           | interested in RPi4 for my home automation project. Seems like
           | the wait is going to take few months or years.
        
           | psychphysic wrote:
           | I wish we had more control over cheap smartphones.
           | 
           | That'd be ideal replacements. Similar spec to SBCs with a
           | touchscreen and battery backup. But WiFi not ethernet.
        
             | geerlingguy wrote:
             | Some can do Ethernet through a dongle!
        
               | galangalalgol wrote:
               | Samsung with 3rd party roms this always worked, I was
               | surprised to dind out vanilla android on a picel doesn't.
               | I have no insight as to what driver is missing or why it
               | wouldn't always be there.
        
         | signa11 wrote:
         | that is not correct. i had a raspberry pi (4b, 8gb) delivered
         | (for a friend) in india this january. although this information
         | is quite old now, so might be outdated.
        
         | numpad0 wrote:
         | I think it's easier to just source (used)office desktops and
         | x86-based thin clients at this stage. There are only upsides to
         | it e.g. no SD corruption, power adapter compatibility issues,
         | overheating problems, etc., so long that you don't need the
         | exact Pi form factor or Pi HAT interface compatibility.
        
           | wil421 wrote:
           | No GPIO.
        
           | tssva wrote:
           | > There are only upsides to it e.g. no SD corruption, power
           | adapter compatibility issues, overheating problems
           | 
           | Boot your Pi from USB and there is no SD corruption to worry
           | about. This has been out of beta and officially supported for
           | over 2 years now. I've never had an issue with power adapter
           | compatibility but understand some had issues when the RPi 4
           | was released due to it requiring more amperage than previous
           | models. Not really a concern with modern USB C adapters and
           | if you are really concerned just buy the official power
           | supply or one of the multitudes sold on Amazon as for the
           | RPi.
           | 
           | As for overheating, I have had a RPi 4 stuffed in a crowded
           | wiring box with no air flow in my unconditioned garage
           | running non-stop without overheating for a few years now. I
           | live in a climate where it is over 90 degrees Fahrenheit
           | every day June - early September with a good part of late
           | July - late August being over 100. I also have a 4 node RPi
           | cluster which has been running for years without any
           | overheating issues. The cluster nodes do have 5v fans running
           | at 3.3v to reduce noise. I installed these when originally
           | setting up the cluster but would be confident removing them.
           | At this point it just isn't worth the effort to do so.
        
       | vital101 wrote:
       | Are there any Raspberry Pi competitors that people like? I've see
       | a few referenced in different articles but I don't have any idea
       | how reliable or useful they are.
        
         | Klasiaster wrote:
         | The boards from Libre Computer are great because they work with
         | mainline Linux and EFI, meaning you can boot any distro, be it
         | Fedora, Debian etc. and directly use the latest distro kernels.
         | You don't need a special image e.g. with a bootloader setup or
         | some custom kernel that gets outdated quickly and never
         | updated. It's really great to be able to not worry about the OS
         | and kernel updates because you can follow what you would also
         | do on your laptop or x86 server.
         | 
         | https://libre.computer/products/
        
         | treesknees wrote:
         | That will depend on what your project requires. There are a
         | large number of Pi users that could get by with a simple x86
         | desktop-class PC or thin client [1] which, as the article
         | points out, can have pretty similar wattage and compute power
         | compared to say running 3-4 Pis.
         | 
         | It gets a little tricky when you start talking about GPIO
         | requirements. There are things like the ASUS tinkerboard [2]
         | but it's much more expensive than a Pi.
         | 
         | [1] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/11/used-thin-client-
         | pcs...
         | 
         | [2] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07WPVVZNH
        
           | destitude wrote:
           | Power usage is the problem. Running a machine that uses 10x
           | more power to accomplish same task that a Pi could is an
           | issue.
        
             | oblak wrote:
             | There are a number of machines using 5800u @ 15W. That's
             | hardly 10x more power. They are only slightly bigger but
             | offer a quite a bit more performance, let alone features.
             | 
             | That said, what am I talking about costs about 500. There's
             | some overlap but it's not exactly the same market.
        
         | jazzyjackson wrote:
         | I'm having success with Orange Pi One using Armbian to build
         | images. Not going to be as performant as a Pi 4 by any stretch
         | but at $25 a pop I can't complain
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-05 23:01 UTC)