[HN Gopher] E-ink art frames are a scam (2021)
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       E-ink art frames are a scam (2021)
        
       Author : scottmcdot
       Score  : 45 points
       Date   : 2022-12-04 20:03 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kurotimedesign.blogspot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kurotimedesign.blogspot.com)
        
       | userbinator wrote:
       | _With only 16 gray levels_
       | 
       | It's disappointing that, even after several years of a _hobbyist_
       | showing that it is indeed possible for an EPD to display more
       | than 16 levels, none of the commercially available panel
       | controllers out there have this capability:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16140284
        
       | its-summertime wrote:
       | Legislation for labeling product images as selectively enhanced,
       | or composite, would be nice
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | There's already a law for this in France and it's quite useful.
        
         | agys wrote:
         | Especially for food!
        
           | fredley wrote:
           | And people!
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | It'd be about as useful as California's Proposition 65.
        
       | asciimov wrote:
       | I'm sorry that this guy feels that these devices are a scam.
       | E-ink frames have their own aesthetic and do a decent job of
       | displaying black and white photos. Sure they have some
       | limitations, but they are good enough and solve a particular
       | problem if you have a large amount of b&w photos to display.
        
         | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
         | maybe, but this is pretty damning
         | 
         | > Nice looking website, edited and misleading pictures and
         | videos with a soothing voice to let you sleep and distract you
         | from the truth.
         | 
         | > High prices, unclear specifications. Unclear business model,
         | subscription based, phone app dependant, making you bound to
         | their service. These devices may easilly become useless if
         | (when) the company closes its doors.
         | 
         | just be transparent about what you're selling and don't require
         | a service for something that can easily be done offline
        
           | AdamJacobMuller wrote:
           | The author makes it impossible to judge though by refusing to
           | link to the website in question.
           | 
           | While I won't judge him or assume malice, I would strongly
           | prefer to make my own judgements about the honesty of their
           | advertising.
        
         | seba_dos1 wrote:
         | B&W photos generally don't look very nice on e-ink (you end up
         | with either strong banding or plenty of noticeable dither); ink
         | drawings do though. You want high contrast content that doesn't
         | rely on grayscale too much there.
        
       | seba_dos1 wrote:
       | > Unclear business model, subscription based, phone app
       | dependant, making you bound to their service.
       | 
       | Get an Inkplate[0] and easily display whatever you want however
       | you want. My one serves as an automated calendar and trash
       | collection schedule, decorated with inkpen drawings that look
       | great on e-ink[1].
       | 
       | [0] https://inkplate.io/
       | 
       | [1] https://mastodon.social/@holypangolin/108698546628218087 /
       | https://mastodon.social/@holypangolin/109291506657105213
        
         | sedatk wrote:
         | E-paper and E-ink are different technologies though. E-paper is
         | transfletive LCD and requires power to keep the image on the
         | display.
        
           | seba_dos1 wrote:
           | E-paper and e-ink are synonyms (well, to be more precise,
           | e-ink is a brand of e-paper, but those terms are being
           | commonly used as synonymous). Not sure what you're referring
           | to regarding transflective screens, as both the article and
           | my comment refer to displays that only need power to update
           | their content.
           | 
           | I also have a device with a transflective LCD, it's called
           | Nokia N900 - it would be hard to mistake one display for
           | another ;)
        
             | lazycow wrote:
             | Might be referring to monochrome RLCD as used on Hisense
             | Q5. Some press calls it e-paper.
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | Honestly, this is as close to an objectively wrong "opinion" as
       | I've seen on here. I think a _scam_ is best defined as something
       | where there 's a _huge_ disjoint between what is sold /marketed,
       | and what the person actually receives or experiences.
       | 
       | They may not look AMAZING, but so what? They do what they say on
       | the tin.
        
         | spiderice wrote:
         | > there's a huge disjoint between what is sold/marketed
         | 
         | I think that's exactly what OP is arguing here. The website
         | (which they didn't link to) showed entirely different
         | capabilities than what the product can do. Nothing "objectively
         | wrong" about that
         | 
         | EDIT: Take this website for example [1]. I have no idea if this
         | is the website OP ordered from (it's just one of the top google
         | results), but if I ordered a picture frame from this website,
         | and it turned out to be what OP ended up with, I would 100%
         | consider that a scam. No question.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.ionnyk.com/
        
           | dandelany wrote:
           | OK, but that is just one product. I agree that some companies
           | are overselling e-ink in a way that is scammy, but that
           | doesn't mean the whole market is a scam. Plenty of products
           | eg. Inkplate are upfront about what you're getting, and I
           | think it looks pretty good, albeit not nearly as good as a
           | proper print.
        
       | maxbbraun wrote:
       | Photos are tricky, but you can make e-paper displays look nice if
       | you embrace the constraints. For example: https://accent.ink
        
       | louwrentius wrote:
       | Personally I think e-paper screens are good enough for art
       | reproduction, but it depends on what you are looking for. laser-
       | sharp photo reproductions are out-of-the-question. But to me,
       | that doesn't mean they can't be suitable art frames.
       | 
       | E-paper or E-ink displays can totally reproduce art, but they
       | convey more of a 'vibe'. Look at the examples of my 3-color
       | epaper display [0],[1] and/or read my blog article about the
       | device to see for yourself [2].
       | 
       | The key take away is that from a distance, images look great and
       | they are definitely good enough to be fit for purpose. Just take
       | into account the limitation and select artwork for display that
       | better suit this type of screen.
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://louwrentius.com/static/images/epaper/epaper05_large....
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://louwrentius.com/static/images/epaper/epaper04_large....
       | 
       | [2] https://louwrentius.com/a-1248-inch-1304x984-three-color-
       | e-p...
        
       | mysecretaccount wrote:
       | One of my primary "consumer electronics" dreams for the future is
       | that e-ink displays become cheap and commonplace.
       | 
       | Something about screens causes them to steal away your attention.
       | "Ambient" screens for menus in bars/restaurants are convenient
       | but are awful decor. This is why I will never have a utility
       | display in my house for e.g. displaying news, weather.
       | 
       | I do not even really care if the tech improves - just give us
       | larger, cheaper e-ink displays with the same DPI/contrast ratio
       | and let them replace ambient screens.
        
         | shultays wrote:
         | They indeed feel magical after getting used to non-ink
         | displays.
         | 
         | When I got my first e-ink reader and opened the box I saw that
         | beautiful black and white artwork on screen. My first
         | assumption was it was a plastic film with the artwork on it to
         | protect the screen and I was supposed to remove it
         | 
         | But nope, the art was actually being displayed on the screen.
         | Since the display consumes no power even while it is "on", they
         | were shipping with that art on the display
         | 
         | My brain was just not able to comprehend a display can show a
         | picture like that without emitting any lights
        
         | Gigachad wrote:
         | You can get TVs that look like paintings. I'm not talking about
         | just having a painting like frame, but I wasn't actually sure
         | if I was looking at a print or a TV. It's mostly to do with the
         | matte screen and low brightness I guess. Supposedly you
         | sacrifice color accuracy for this effect though.
        
       | ketralnis wrote:
       | The word scam is really losing all of its meaning
        
       | beardyw wrote:
       | Not really related, but I did see an art installation where the
       | screens had been completely disconnected and removed but retained
       | the grainy image which was on them last.
        
       | selamtux wrote:
       | a sculptor want to make a good art and last to the end. one
       | artist chooses the sand to make sculp to last longer and it
       | doesnt last longer. who's we should blame? to artist, to sand, to
       | wind and waves, to art?
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | I'd love an e-ink frame, regardless of the contrast issues.
        
         | mdp2021 wrote:
         | The article writer is attacking unspecified providers that are
         | promising more than it is deliverable - not the technology.
         | 
         | > _High prices, unclear specifications. Unclear business model,
         | subscription based, phone app dependant, making you bound to
         | their service. These devices may easilly become useless if
         | (when) the company closes its doors_
        
           | Kiro wrote:
           | Most of the article is spent on explaining why e-ink is
           | unacceptable for art and why no-one wants this. Clearly
           | nonsense. I want an e-ink display for showing art, regardless
           | of the quality.
        
         | rasse wrote:
         | I bought one from Clemens at https://framelabs.eu/en/
         | 
         | I've been extremely happy with mine. There are contrast
         | limitations, of course, but you quickly develop an eye for what
         | works on it and what doesn't. But sure, you can't just throw
         | any picture on there and expect to get away with it.
         | 
         | Note that it's made in and ships from Germany.
        
           | mdp2021 wrote:
           | I can see that the maximum is 13'', 150 PPI.
           | 
           | I suggest one could buy an EPD tablet - you can find 13'',
           | 300 PPI - and build a nice wall mounted (or table sitting)
           | frame structure for resting.
           | 
           | (Setting the "power off" picture in Android (you do not need
           | the OS to be on to display the picture) can be an ugly
           | process, but there may be workarounds)
        
           | api wrote:
           | Is it locked to someone's cloud where it will stop working
           | randomly when they decide to shut down the service?
        
             | Hellion wrote:
             | The page linked doesn't say a lot, but it does say "local
             | web interface"
        
               | api wrote:
               | That's a good sign.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-04 23:01 UTC)