[HN Gopher] Recommendations for Japan Travel
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Recommendations for Japan Travel
        
       Author : rugsdirect
       Score  : 331 points
       Date   : 2022-12-04 10:57 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.kalzumeus.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.kalzumeus.com)
        
       | roobs wrote:
       | I'm not sure when this post was originally written, but at a
       | quick glance I can see some mentioned stores/restaurants that
       | have since unfortunately shut down (like Deus Ex Machina which I
       | used to frequent when it was in Harajuku but has since moved
       | about 45 minutes away to Asakusa). This might not be the most up-
       | to-date resource if you're visiting Japan in the future.
       | 
       | Also, this list specifically recommends the APA hotel chain,
       | whose president leaves copies of his revisionist history book
       | denying the Nanking Massacre in their hotel rooms, often in
       | foreign languages[1]. There are quite a few nationwide hotel
       | chains in Japan like Dormy Inn and JR METS as well as thousands
       | of independents, most of which are listed on price comparison
       | websites and will come in around the same cost as a room at APA.
       | Please consider supporting another hotel, ideally a local one,
       | before APA :)
       | 
       | [1] = many sources, see:
       | https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/01/25/national/despit...
       | https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/book-foun...
        
         | zerocrates wrote:
         | He posted mentioning this on Twitter quite recently so I think
         | the post itself is new, but the content within may not be.
        
           | patio11 wrote:
           | I was surprised Deus Ex had shut down, but it is not exactly
           | like they had an obligation to send me a memo.
        
             | zerocrates wrote:
             | I just meant that you explicitly couched it as a
             | distillation of advice you've given many times before, so
             | it's perhaps to be expected if some of it isn't totally up-
             | to-date.
        
         | valenterry wrote:
         | Dormy Inn is awesome. Has really become my favorite hotel chain
         | in Japan.
        
         | bluepizza wrote:
         | Even if you don't care about APA being a very weird business,
         | the other chains that OP recommended are simply better.
         | Cleaner, nicer, better service.
         | 
         | Avoid APA at all costs, especially outside touristic areas. APA
         | is used by everyone for all things, legal or not, and the state
         | of your room may vary wildly.
        
           | rjh29 wrote:
           | Not my experience at all... I've used APA throughout the
           | whole of Japan and they are consistently good. Especially in
           | terms of furnishings and soundproofing. They're also
           | extremely cheap and available in almost every city. What you
           | say about the rooms could be said about basically any hotel
           | of course.
           | 
           | I'm from the UK where even a crap hotel costs $80-100/night,
           | so being able to pay under $40 for the quality APA provides
           | (even if the rooms are small) is insane to me.
        
             | bluepizza wrote:
             | Notice that I mentioned that they get bad outside of
             | touristic areas. I mean the ones where someone from the UK
             | wouldn't normally stay, like a business area or a local
             | transportation hub.
             | 
             | Meaning the ones used by drunks, drug addicts, and
             | prostitutes.
        
               | rjh29 wrote:
               | I've stayed in a bunch of them across the country but
               | maybe I haven't been to any particularly rough areas.
               | They all have a practically identical layout (both
               | building and rooms) as far as I can tell. Any examples?
        
               | bluepizza wrote:
               | I am not talking about layout. I am talking about unclean
               | bathrooms and beds, mold, cigarrette smells in the
               | corridors, people falling over in the corridors, weird
               | noises at night, aircons that don't work.
               | 
               | APA does not provide top notch maintenance for its hotels
               | in Kiyosumi-Shirakawa, Nishi Kasai, Meidaimae, or any non
               | important area.
               | 
               | If you stay in the hotel close to the central station of
               | a small town - that's touristic. Japanese tourists are
               | staying there.
               | 
               | What I mean is that APA is really bad off the beaten
               | path, and since the article recommends branching off,
               | using APA is a very bad idea.
        
               | kalleboo wrote:
               | I've stayed in an APA that literally had a sign outside
               | advertising short stays (=love hotel) and even that one
               | was really nice and well-run (lol)
        
               | bluepizza wrote:
               | You got lucky, the short stays is a hallmark of bad shit
               | going down
        
         | wirthjason wrote:
         | Interesting. My wife worked for APA. I never heard about this
         | before, I'll have to ask.
        
         | timr wrote:
         | Yes, I do my best to avoid APA for this reason.
         | 
         | Other major business hotel chains:
         | 
         | * Toyoko Inn
         | 
         | * Dormy Inn (almost always has a bath on the top floor!)
         | 
         | * Candeo hotels (same!)
         | 
         | * M's hotels (there are many variations on the "M's" name)
         | 
         | * Unizo
         | 
         | * Smile hotel
         | 
         | * Hotel mystays
         | 
         | * Hotel livemax
         | 
         | * Daiwa Roynet
         | 
         | ...and tons of others that are less universal. While there are
         | subtle differences between them (e.g. some have better beds,
         | others have laundry facilities, some have public baths on the
         | top floor), virtually all "business hotels" have the same set
         | of features, down to the layout of the rooms, and can usually
         | be had for $50-$100 a night. That said, they are _small_ , and
         | you will not be happy if you're the kind of tourist who lugs
         | multiple large suitcases everywhere you go, or if you're
         | seeking a "luxury" experience.
         | 
         | Business hotels are cheap places to crash for a night and
         | little more.
        
         | rjh29 wrote:
         | APA hotel isn't a great choice for most (American) tourists
         | anyway - the rooms are extremely small. Most customers seem to
         | be solo Japanese businessmen.
        
           | Razengan wrote:
           | Is this a reference to American obesity or something else..?
        
             | wyclif wrote:
             | Americans are very fond of wide open spaces and square
             | footage. Imagine being from Colorado, Wyoming, or
             | Montana...or even California...and staying in a Japanese
             | salaryman hotel. It's going to be claustrophobic for some
             | people not used to the experience.
        
               | kristopolous wrote:
               | The hotel advice is if you're paying normal hotel prices
               | you're going to get a room that's not absurd.
               | 
               | It's more that Japan (and many other places) have a
               | product class at a pricing point that Americans do not so
               | Americans think they've gotten a great deal but instead
               | it's a product they're not expecting and not familiar
               | with.
               | 
               | Maybe you want that, just know what you're buying.
        
             | rjh29 wrote:
             | No, more that American hotels are a lot larger than
             | European ones (I'm from the UK) and I assumed (with no real
             | evidence) that Americans carry more luggage.
             | 
             | Although it is true that Japan is a bit of a struggle if
             | you are overweight or especially tall.
        
               | kaybe wrote:
               | One of the best room I ever had was in Norway. It was at
               | most 3 times as large as the queensized bed, had at least
               | 5 different lighting options and a fantastic black-out
               | curtain (this was needed above the Arctic circle) and
               | tons of small storage places and hooks - and this
               | includes a tiny bathroom. Everything you need, and super
               | cozy.
        
         | justusw wrote:
         | If I may, I would also like to recommend Richmond and Route Inn
         | here. I have been to the Richmond in Sendai and Morioka in
         | Tohoku on three different occasions. The best thing is that no
         | one wants to take a copy of my residence card, which to the
         | best of my knowledge (statement from the MHLW) they are not
         | supposed to ask you for anyway, but a lot of hotels do ask and
         | then suggest you go find another place if you don't want to
         | comply.
        
       | netsharc wrote:
       | For some more inspiration, James May of Top Gear experienced the
       | not-standard-tourist-stuff of Japan, although some of it is "he's
       | from TV so he has access to things mere mortals don't":
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JzeSxx0LC4
       | 
       | It's also charming to see Tokyo/Japan in the background of some
       | Japanese YouTubers' videos, e.g. this one where they try to walk
       | from a station to another but have to stop at every convenience
       | store and roll a dice to get something:
       | https://youtu.be/_yT32QAyv6s
        
       | wirthjason wrote:
       | I'm not sure about the off the beaten path as general advice.
       | There's people who will always go off the beaten path because
       | that's what they do. Getting around and finding things to do in
       | large cities is much easier than rural ones.
       | 
       | I love going to onsens and the best ones are off the beaten path
       | and usually vary hard to get to without access to a car. (If
       | you're into driving Japan is a lot of fun. I particularly like
       | driving along the coastline through the Atami Ito area. Mountain
       | driving with steep incline/declines and switchbacks is also fun.)
       | 
       | In small towns there's often just one central train station and
       | everything else is by bus, taxi, or car. Buses and taxis are
       | terrible options so it basically leaves driving. While it's easy
       | to rent a car I don't think it's a realistic option for most
       | travelers.
       | 
       | While there's things to do in small towns it's often a lesser
       | experience. Shops and restaurants close earlier and there's less
       | variety. It's a lesser experience than what you'd get in a major
       | city.
       | 
       | Moreover there's tons of things to do on the outskirts of large
       | cities. Take Koedo (Xiao Jiang Hu ) as an example. You often
       | don't have to go very far out for a different experience and
       | still have all the accessibility of the city.
        
       | jleyank wrote:
       | To use the physics sense, we found vacationing in Japan _high
       | friction_. Yeah, it was totally different than anywhere we have
       | been on n America or Western Europe. At times, it felt like we
       | were looking at everything on the other side of a closed window,
       | amazing yet inaccessible. This was '05 or earlier, and the lack
       | of Roman lettering outside Kyoto was hard. Outrunning English has
       | not been a problem elsewhere, but losing the ability to read was
       | hard. We had a native set up our trains and hotels, and could not
       | imagine trying to do it ourselves. Packaged tours suck, so that
       | was never considered.
       | 
       | In the end, the sheer wonder lost to the effort of appreciating
       | it. Which, of course, is a commentary on us not Japan. I suspect
       | they encounter the same problems doing the reverse, possibly the
       | same wonder and friction as well.
       | 
       | To add, we were amazed by the politeness and helpfulness of the
       | people we met everywhere. We were obviously tourists trying to
       | navigate and trying not to annoy.
        
         | dreamcompiler wrote:
         | One thing that helps -- besides the Google translate app -- is
         | to learn Katakana and Hiragana before you leave. There are only
         | ~48 characters in each and they match each other 1:1 (think of
         | Katakana as "printing" and Hiragana as "cursive"). Each
         | character represents only one sound (unlike English) so it's
         | easy to learn the symbol-to-sound mapping. Most signage and
         | menus include one or the other and being able to sound out the
         | phonemes dramatically increases one's feeling of being able to
         | read. You can learn either from its Wikipedia page:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana
         | 
         | Kanji is a whole different deal: That's the writing system with
         | tens of thousands of characters. It helps to learn the most
         | common few of these, but it's completely unnecessary to learn
         | more than that to have an enjoyable time as a tourist.
        
         | gniv wrote:
         | Your comment reminded me of Lost in Translation (which came out
         | in 2003).
        
           | jleyank wrote:
           | Aside from not being famous or beautiful people, we liked and
           | sorta related to lost in translation. They were good trips,
           | and I encourage anybody from n America to visit the war
           | museums in Tokyo and especially Hiroshima. Everybody should
           | do Hiroshima. All in the spirit of "never again".
           | 
           | I think Kyoto and maybe one other city wasn't bombed in ww
           | ii. Let the old temples and statues survive.
        
         | pverghese wrote:
         | I would agree that would have been the case years ago. Nowadays
         | with the equivalent of babelfish on our phones, language
         | barriers have come close to being almost non existent.
        
           | jleyank wrote:
           | Was hoping that was the case, good to see. Seamless
           | translation as part of my glasses would be great, as waving
           | one's phone about looks a little dorky. And I would have
           | Arthur's response to a babelfish I fear. The lack of subtlety
           | in Roman lettering made pattern recognition easy, harder with
           | complex symbology.
        
         | ncpa-cpl wrote:
         | > Outrunning English has not been a problem elsewhere, but
         | losing the ability to read was hard
         | 
         | Losing the ability to read is really a hard but also
         | interesting experience. It really felt like losing one sense.
         | While main tourist spots had romanization, more local places
         | did not.
         | 
         | On the other hand, not being able to read made me more aware of
         | my surroundings.
         | 
         | Like observing what other people did before doing something
         | myself. Or having to stop for a minute before entering a store
         | or ordering from a food stall to recognize what was sold there.
         | I also remember being less distracted by ads and signs.
        
         | Klonoar wrote:
         | It has gotten so significantly easier post '05 that I would
         | discount your entire post and encourage you to go again if you
         | wanted to try it.
         | 
         | We're talking almost 20 years here.
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | I went to Japan in recent years and it was frictionless. Plenty
         | of English signs, more people than I was led to believe spoke
         | at least rudimentary English, and Google translate worked in a
         | pinch.
        
         | Markoff wrote:
         | TIL people call Latin alphabet Roman lettering
         | 
         | I always refer only to numerals as Roman, the alphabet/writing
         | system always as Latin
         | 
         | Btw your 2005 pre smartphone experience compared to nowadays is
         | not relevant anymore with everyone having GPS maps and
         | translator in hands even if no signage were changed, I sort of
         | liked old times when you had to interact with locals, nowadays
         | you can just stare at mobile and no need to talk to them at
         | all.
        
           | ncpa-cpl wrote:
           | > I sort of liked old times when you had to interact with
           | locals, nowadays you can just stare at mobile
           | 
           | Disconnecting from home is something harder to do now.
           | 
           | Back when I travelled in the late 2000s, early 2010s, I'd
           | usually just do a three minute phone call home to let them
           | know I arrived well, and perhaps send an email every couple
           | days with one or two photos from a cyber cafe, later with the
           | laptop from the hotel wifi.
           | 
           | From the late 2010s onwards, with roaming packages, local sim
           | cards wifi even on flight is harder to disconnect without
           | turning off notifications.
           | 
           | One one hand it's quite cool to make a video call to family
           | from the other side of the world, but it also means that
           | suddenly you'll end up dealing with day to day home stuff
           | from a trans pacific flight.
        
           | majewsky wrote:
           | The term "Latin alphabet" is correct in English, but the
           | Japanese do indeed call it romaZi  ("roomaji", i.e. Roman
           | characters).
        
           | ncpa-cpl wrote:
           | There's the term romanization which is the word used when
           | another writing system is converted to roman/latin letters
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | 2008, pre-smartphone we were staying at a hotel in Osaka. We
       | asked the English speaking concierge where we could do our
       | laundry.
       | 
       | Unexpectedly they sprung up and walked us 3 solid blocks to a
       | near by laundromat. It was the most amazing service I have ever
       | received.
       | 
       | We spent 2 weeks traveling around the country and this was our
       | experience in a nutshell. Everyone was so kind and helpful.
        
       | monokai_nl wrote:
       | Went to Japan in 2019 and made a one page photo diary of the
       | places I visited. For those interested:
       | https://monokai.nl/2019/japan/
        
       | ianpenney wrote:
       | I've been 18 times and I had a good chuckle at this story and the
       | comments. All largely inaccurate. Especially the bits about APA
       | and Kyoto.
       | 
       | Y'all reek of FOMO and exoticism. Chill.
       | 
       | Just go with it. You'll be fine. Live your normal life, just in a
       | different place. You can gaijin smash through anything if you're
       | a jerk. If you're not, I'm sure you'll find a way to be less
       | shitty as a tourist and someone will appreciate it at the time -
       | and forget about it the next day.
       | 
       | My favourite dining experience was going to Savoy and leaving it
       | to the staff to make whatever they'd recommend. osusumehaHe
       | desuka? They have a pizza that's not on the English menu. A woman
       | from Boston sat at the counter and annoyed absolutely everyone in
       | the restaurant with her loud, obnoxious behaviour, poor Japanese
       | accent, and "I'm the main character" vibes. Classic Roppongi.
       | 
       | She didn't get the secret pizza.
        
         | Klonoar wrote:
         | I lived there for over six years and moved away because I got
         | tired of the country - which is to say, I really get tired of
         | reading Japan fetishism/worship/exoticism takes. The pedestal
         | people place it on is absolutely not needed.
         | 
         | That said, Patrick's takes are pretty much as bad as people in
         | this thread are pointing out.
         | 
         | (Side note: take a shot for every random article about Japan
         | that gets to the front page and you'll start to see the tech
         | industry's penchant for it in a different light - this doesn't
         | happen with other countries)
        
           | Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
           | When did you start noticing this enter the mainstream? For me
           | it was ~2015. I remember when anime avatars were mocked and
           | ridiculed, and "weeb" was used an an insult. (admittedly both
           | by poeple who did and did not watch anime, but that itself is
           | a point I won't touch on here.)
           | 
           | Yet I find "thing, Japan" to be 10x worse than that. So much
           | so that I stopped watching anime completely. I see the most
           | boring, time wasting and irrelevant videos on youtube in the
           | default youtube homepage (no cookies) that simply have
           | "Japan" in the tittle with millions of views and thousands of
           | comments half about anime and half about how Japan does the
           | thing in the video 10x better than everyone else. And 90%
           | with anime avatars. So much for escapism... Japan is now
           | everywhere.
           | 
           | >take a shot for every random article about Japan that gets
           | to the front page
           | 
           | Just this or last week there was a Japanese university
           | compsci cirlce-jerk here on HN. Apearantly, Japan is known
           | for it's unbeatable hardware design programs, unrivled by any
           | gaijin education. And yes, Japan is of course a top country
           | in tech. But these claims are ridiculus and unfounded,
           | especialy as Japan's hardware industry has been on the
           | delcine. For example, Samsung is rapidly removing them from
           | their supply chain (even the chemicals that ONLY Japan can
           | produce, or something) and Chinese cameras have made it into
           | the S23 Ultra. Of course little to no mention of Korea in the
           | replies to that post desipte being a leader in almost all
           | hardware tech: DRAM (1); Fabs (2); display (1); smartphones
           | (2); SSDs (1 or 2) and recently some "heavy industry and
           | chemicals" that Japan is still known for.
           | 
           | I don't hate Japan, far from it, but this needs to stop.
        
         | tannedNerd wrote:
         | Cool so we shouldn't try to go to Japan if we don't speak the
         | language is what I got from this. Aka gate keeping. You are
         | worse than the people you are trying to admonish in the
         | beginning of your comment.
        
           | ianpenney wrote:
           | Learning to say the following in the language of the land
           | will get you further than 99% of tourists.
           | 
           | Hello
           | 
           | Please
           | 
           | Thank you
           | 
           | Excuse me
           | 
           | I'm sorry
           | 
           | Most notably - speaking Catalan instead of Spanish in
           | Barcelona will endear you to locals in a way you wouldn't
           | believe.
           | 
           | You do you, though. I had to google the hiragana for that
           | phrase. I can't read Japanese worth a damn.
        
           | diceduckmonk wrote:
           | > Aka gate keeping.
           | 
           | I've traveled all 47 prefectures and I had a good chuckle at
           | OP's comment. Among locals, Roppongi has a reputation of
           | having one of the highest concentration of trashy foreigners.
           | Classic with main character vibes.
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | Where, exactly did you get that? By the fact that there's a
           | single secret item only in the Japanese menu? _Oh no how
           | exclusive!_
           | 
           | Just don't be an rude boisterous tourist and you'll be fine.
           | That's the _actual_ message in the parent comment.
        
         | firemanx wrote:
         | I visited Japan for the first time a month ago, and basically
         | followed this advice. Got lost in Tokyo. Well as lost as you
         | can be considering Apple or Google Maps and SUICA are pretty
         | much universal wherever I went. And cash.
         | 
         | Didn't speak the language, didn't try to make people speak
         | English - asked for the Japanese menu and used Google translate
         | to figure it out.
         | 
         | Kyoto was incredible.
        
       | riko41 wrote:
       | Here are some additional ideas for off the beaten path Japan:
       | 
       | - Rent a car, better yet, rent a cheap camper van[1]. Save a ton
       | of money on hotels.
       | 
       | - Get a local 4G internet card. Save on roaming charges.
       | 
       | - Set the option to "Avoid tolls" and "Avoid motorways" on your
       | favorite navigation app. Slower, cheaper and much better scenery.
       | 
       | - Sleep on Road side stations(free and safe), bath on hot
       | springs, wash your clothes on funny laundrettes.
       | 
       | - Use an app[2] with offline mode and content in English.
       | 
       | [1]https://www.japancampers.com/
       | 
       | [2]https://apps.apple.com/us/app/michi-japan-road-guide-
       | offline...
        
         | mysecretaccount wrote:
         | Can you sleep in a camper at michi no eki that lack campsites?
        
         | dreamcompiler wrote:
         | Two caveats about renting cars in Japan:
         | 
         | 1. Driving is on the left and the lanes are narrow. UK visitors
         | will have no problem; Americans will find it trickier.
         | 
         | 2. Japanese police have zero tolerance and complete discretion
         | w.r.t. driving under the influence. Just don't do it; drinking
         | even one beer and then driving is enough to get thrown in jail.
         | And you do _not_ want to get thrown in jail in Japan.
        
       | hn30000 wrote:
       | Tokyo has so much going on that you can pretty much follow your
       | own highly niche interests and have a good time there. No need to
       | get bogged down in people's "takes" on how to do it right.
        
       | wittyusername wrote:
       | This is interesting, but not great Japan advice. I just went and
       | had a blast and did the opposite of his advice. I think people
       | are different and want different things and don't feel bad if you
       | just want to see the standard Japan checklist. His talk of
       | everyone being surly..you know what, be respectful, everyone in
       | Japan is so polite and nice that you will be happy with the level
       | of service everywhere.
       | 
       | I've been many times and there is a time to venture out and there
       | is a time to enjoy what everyone enjoys and both are fine.
        
         | mysecretaccount wrote:
         | Yeah, I have spent a year in Japan and visited most prefectures
         | and disagree with the article. Of course you should get off the
         | beaten path, but if you avoid it like the article recommends,
         | you will have a much worse time.
         | 
         | Additionally, the advice to visit Gifu is _terrible_. I spent a
         | week in and around Gifu-shi per Patrick 's advice years ago
         | and, while the area is charming as the article states, it is
         | not somewhere you should visit before seeing a dozen other
         | places.
        
       | traceroute66 wrote:
       | I have not read the whole blog, but at least one critical part of
       | it is already out of date.
       | 
       | The bit about the Japan Rail Pass, in particular the statement _"
       | and which you must purchase before you get here"_.
       | 
       | This is no longer the case. In the run-up to the Olympics, Japan
       | made serious improvements in relation to the JRP:
       | 1) You no longer need to purchase it abroad. You can purchase it
       | in Japan on presentation of your passport with your visitor visa
       | label. Yes, you will pay a small (10%) premium for buying in-
       | country, but the point is the "abroad only" requirement is no
       | longer there.          2) The whole "queue and stamp" palaver to
       | get seats is no longer a thing. The whole "queue and show"
       | palaver to get through the gates is no longer a thing. You now
       | get a ticket which you can use at the machines to get your
       | reservations. You now get a ticket which you can use at the
       | automated gates.  If you have never been to Japan before, I can't
       | tell you how FRIGGIN AWESOME an improvement this is over the
       | historical way of doing things !
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | I actually like the "queue and stamp" and "queue and show"!
         | 
         | First, because queues were usually short. For showing the JR
         | pass, usually no queue at all, sometimes faster than the
         | automatic gates. For reserving seats the experience has always
         | been great, even as a non-Japanese speaker. The guy will find
         | you the time, changes, etc... will ask you if you want to be
         | together as a group, smoking or non-smoking cars (if that's
         | still a thing), etc... and will find what's best for you taking
         | into account what's available, often in less than a minute. I
         | have never had an experience like this with a machine, not even
         | close.
         | 
         | Maybe you travel mostly at rush hours, where the queues can get
         | longer, but no "palaver" for me, everything has been as
         | efficient as it could be. Generally I find machines to be
         | strictly worse than competent staff, and the JR staff is among
         | the best.
        
       | diceduckmonk wrote:
       | I've traveled all 47 prefectures of Japan, and done all sorts of
       | "edgy" stuff that AtlasObscura has yet to cover, such as trails
       | where only several dozen people have crossed that season. I've
       | also revisited tourist hotspots like Kiyomizu-dera in Kyoto
       | several dozen times.
       | 
       | I'd recommend people follow the beaten path. Is the most touristy
       | spots in Japan and Kyoto "overrated" (given how popular it is)?
       | Yes. But if you take out the crowds, is it grander and more
       | significant than obscure site seeing spots off the beaten path?
       | Yes. Efficient Market Theory applies to site-seeing places,
       | especially with the internet.
       | 
       | There is a tendency in SV and on HN to be contrarian, but there's
       | a good reason touristy places are popular. You get the most value
       | for your time, especially if traveling is an expensive luxury for
       | you and you don't want to take the risk. The best travel
       | experiences I had in Japan were in obscure places, but the reason
       | I've been lucky is that I went to hundreds of obscure places,
       | most of which were duds. Popular places have also been vetted by
       | other foreigners plus the feedback loop of the business ecosystem
       | being ready to handle a wide range of tourists.
       | 
       | Take restaurants for instance. The Japanese taste palette is
       | rather muted/bland compared to what Americans are used, and even
       | most other Asian countries. Consider how Japan only has two Hai
       | Di Lao restaurants, a relatively pricy restaurant for most of the
       | population, while a much lower income country like Vietnam has at
       | least 10. Sure, there are some things that are "objectively"
       | universally loved, let's say sushi, but the random Japanese hole
       | in the wall with a line of locals waiting might be interesting,
       | but not necessarily delicious, to a foreigner. If you read the
       | Google Maps review for restaurants, you'll find two separate
       | ratings distributions between English-writing reviews and
       | Japanese reviewers. There's also a matter of price sensitivity.
       | When you've already spent the fixed cost on flights,
       | accommodations, you might as well make the most of your trip and
       | try the best of the city has to offer. It's kind of outside the
       | sunk cost fallacy. If you're living there, it's not financially
       | sustainable to eat a Michelin star restaurant everyday. You'll
       | evaluate restaurants based on relative value, wherein you have
       | the option and leisure to go to tens of thousands of other
       | restaurants, whereas a traveler only gets a few shots. At any
       | rate, if you follow the beaten path for restaurants recommended
       | by foreigners, you'll likely like it. If you pursue restaurants
       | that Japanese people like, sure, you'll get some arguably
       | authentic Japanese food for the experience but doesn't
       | necessarily mean you'll enjoy it day in day out.
       | 
       | Personally, I would never go to the Ninja restaurant OP
       | mentioned, as my taste palette has been calibrated to the
       | Japanese. It's just screaming tourist trap. There is nothing
       | wrong with that since the "tourist traps" in Japan are still
       | pretty good. I just know it'll be over-priced. If I wanted
       | Ninjas, I'll just go Mie prefecture where they incubated. But if
       | you're visiting Tokyo, power to you for checking out the Ninja
       | restaurant. If you're visiting Kyoto, I recommend "Menbaka Fire
       | Ramen". The Japanese locals I know in Kyoto would not spent that
       | kind of money ($15?) on ramen, especially one they think is way
       | too salty, but I just took a guest who was visiting and it's been
       | their favorite ramen shop in Japan.
        
         | npinsker wrote:
         | This is a wonderful post, thank you :) I haven't lived in Japan
         | for an extended period, but it tracks with my experience
         | exactly -- particularly the bit about food, where I've had very
         | limited success with scoring-based sites like tabelog and have
         | come to greatly prefer explicit recommendations.
        
         | simonebrunozzi wrote:
         | > I've traveled all 47 prefectures of Japan
         | 
         | Wow. I'd love to read more about your experience. Please
         | consider writing something for the rest of us; or point to
         | things that you have written. Thanks!
        
         | nikic wrote:
         | Regarding restaurants, I think you generally get pretty good
         | mileage out of Tabelog. A key problem for short-term visits is
         | that highly-rated restaurants (>= 3.7) tend to fall into two
         | categories: Either the restaurant is cheap and has a long queue
         | outside it (typically things like ramen, but also cheap+good
         | sushi) or it is expensive and requires a reservation. You
         | generally can't just walk into this kind of restaurant unless
         | you get lucky and it just happens to not be fully booked.
         | 
         | Placing a reservation requires a Japanese phone number (which
         | you can get easily for the duration of travel) and most
         | restaurants only accept reservations by phone. Some can be
         | reserved on Tabelog directly, but this also requires a Japanese
         | phone number, and some restaurants will call you back to
         | confirm the reservation, so I'm not sure I would recommend this
         | if you don't speak at least some Japanese. Even if you do
         | reservations by phone, you should expect that most restaurants
         | are already fully booked out for the next week. The best chance
         | to get a reservation are restaurants that are a bit too
         | expensive for their rating.
         | 
         | Ideally you would do reservations before you travel, but I'm
         | not sure what the best way to do that would be in practice.
        
           | diceduckmonk wrote:
           | > tend to fall into two categories
           | 
           | A third category is Japanese chain "fast food" restaurants
           | such as Sukiya.
           | 
           | It's cheap, fast, no reservations needed, can accommodate
           | English speaking guests (as a chain, they have English
           | tablets/vending machines), a relatively unique Japanese
           | travel experience (that locals eat too), the food is more
           | flavorful to non-Japanese taste palette.
           | 
           | For would be travelers reading this, see also Matsuya and
           | Yoshinoya. Kura sushi, Ichiran Ramen, and Ikinari steakhouse
           | kind of fall into this category too. Just avoid the
           | "flagship" stores such as the Ichiran in Shibuya where the
           | line is out the door recently. You can find an Ichiran at
           | some random less touristy station and there would be no wait.
           | 
           | For a one week trip, there's enough of these chain
           | restaurants to try. There's also Denny's which, for those
           | unaware, has a distinctly Japanese menu (Japanese
           | interpretation of Western dishes)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rtpg wrote:
         | I cannot think of a single "tourist trap" beyond Imahan that
         | tastes better than any random place in the same category in
         | Tokyo. Different story outside the city but Tokyo generally has
         | pretty high standards, and places that focus on matching what
         | tourists expect rather than just being good rarely come out
         | well
         | 
         | Granted I guess I like stuff here so I'm not the target
         | audience!
        
           | diceduckmonk wrote:
           | I meant relative to tourist traps in other countries, wherein
           | all the tourist traps in Japan are still edible whereas there
           | have been places abroad I simply just discarded. I would
           | consider the tourist traps in Japan to be below average
           | compared to same-category restaurants but they tend to have
           | some experiential bit or decor that makes up for the lower
           | food quality. It could be as simple as having an English
           | menu.
        
         | ianpenney wrote:
         | Yo you ever been to Nakiryu for ramen though? It's fire. The
         | instant stuff they have at 7 is also incredible. (Michelin
         | rated instant noodles. Seriously.)
         | 
         | Also I can't remember the name of the place (Aka something) in
         | Shinjuku but they do a spicy AF Nabe and a chicken wing that is
         | literally the hottest thing I've ever eaten. I took a tiny bite
         | and felt like I was going to die. They give you disposable
         | gloves to handle it. My partner was in agony the next day.
         | 
         | Eh. It's a whole country. There's something for everyone. I'll
         | take Ootoya or Matsuya or Pepper Lunch any day. Will never eat
         | at Coco Curry again though. Got food poisoning there once.
        
           | diceduckmonk wrote:
           | Yup, I swept 3 ( only 2 are current) Michelin star ramen
           | shops in a week. I was not able to visit Tsuta because
           | founder passed away recently and the shop is closed
           | indefinitely.
           | 
           | Nakiryu is good, especially for the price, but I wouldn't
           | wait more than an hour for ramen. Fortunately I went when the
           | border was closed. Nakiryu is novel because it is spicy, and
           | it's unique/rare for Japan, but the rest of Asia has spicy
           | Chinese noodles (ironic cause Ramen is spelled in Katakana
           | and literally means noodle in Chinese).
           | 
           | Not sure which nabe / chicken you had in Shinjuku. Sounds
           | good, I'm interested. Are you sure it wasn't a izakaya?
           | There's way too many to know. If you want chicken wings,
           | don't forget to try the wings in Nagoya. Furaibo is one spot.
           | Again, surprisingly flavorful and unique for Japan, but
           | similar stuff exist throughout Asia.
           | 
           | > Will never eat at Coco Curry again though. Got food
           | poisoning there once.
           | 
           | It happens. You probably paid for that extra spice.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | tkgally wrote:
       | I have also lived in Japan for almost all of my adult life (age
       | twenty-six to my current sixty-five), and the recommendations on
       | the linked page all look good to me--better than any that I would
       | be able to give. He has obviously travelled more around Japan
       | than I have.
       | 
       | Just two comments:
       | 
       | He recommends APA Hotels, but the couple of times I stayed there
       | the rooms were unpleasantly small--around twelve square meters.
       | There was barely enough empty floor space for a single suitcase.
       | I try to choose hotel rooms with at least eighteen square meters.
       | (Some commenters here have raised other issues with APA Hotels.)
       | 
       | He says nothing about COVID. While people in some countries are
       | talking about the pandemic in the past tense, not in Japan.
       | Around a hundred thousand new cases and a hundred and fifty
       | deaths are being reported each day, with numbers rising again. In
       | just the past couple of weeks, I've heard from three
       | acquaintances who have recently gone through rather serious
       | cases. Almost everyone is wearing masks, especially indoors.
       | Because of my age, I continue to work only from home and to avoid
       | crowded places. I will be getting my fifth vaccination in a
       | couple of weeks.
        
       | impendia wrote:
       | Having lived in Japan for two years, what I'd add to this is to
       | spend a lot of time walking, if physically able.
       | 
       | For example, in my opinion the best way to explore Tokyo is to
       | simply leave your hotel in the morning, wander around all day,
       | and stop anywhere and everywhere that looks interesting. The
       | excellent mass transit system means that it won't be a problem to
       | get back.
       | 
       | In more rural parts of Japan, there are signposted walking
       | trails. Here are three which I highly recommend, in whole or in
       | part.
       | 
       | Yamanobe Road:
       | https://www.japan.travel/en/destinations/kansai/nara/the-yam...
       | 
       | Kyoto Trail: https://kyoto-trail.net/trail_course_e.html
       | 
       | Shikoku Henro-Michi: https://www.henro.org/shikoku-pilgrimage/map
       | 
       | These places are wondrous for their natural and human-made
       | beauty, and have tons of temples, shrines, and historic sights
       | along the way. I strongly second Patrick's advice to get out of
       | the big cities, and virtually anywhere you go you will find much
       | that is beautiful.
        
         | TEP_Kim_Il_Sung wrote:
         | Don't worry, any places foreigners are forbidden from entering,
         | are clearly marked.
        
           | BonoboIO wrote:
           | Where would that be?
        
         | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
         | Tokyo is absurdly gigantic, I would not suggest randomly
         | walking it. Also the subway system can be challenging, and the
         | staff don't speak English, so if you get stuck they likely
         | won't be able to help.
         | 
         | Another random thing about the train system: there are women-
         | only cars. I didn't realize this until I had already boarded
         | and (as a man) I was absolutely mortified.
        
           | rippercushions wrote:
           | You really can't "get stuck" though. Carry a phone with
           | Google Maps and get a Pasmo/Suica fare card, and it's easy to
           | get back to your hotel from anywhere at all in the city.
        
             | kitsunesoba wrote:
             | Yep, Google Maps (and if I recall even Apple Maps) will
             | route you through the transit system just fine. Those of us
             | who can't read Japanese might need to pattern match on
             | Kanji for station names (maps app will show both original
             | and romanized names) but I don't think that's too much of a
             | challenge.
             | 
             | Suica is great with how you can reload it from your US
             | credit card, and works in many places besides just transit
             | stations. It saved me several ATM runs last time I was
             | there.
        
             | raylad wrote:
             | If you don't have good or any phone service, organicmaps
             | works well.
        
             | awslattery wrote:
             | Google Maps + Suica worked wonders in 2019!
        
           | greggman3 wrote:
           | Tokyo's trains have some of the best signage in the world.
           | Nearly all the ones in Tokyo and other major cities have
           | English directions. All the stations have color coded numbers
           | like G12 or N13 if Japanese names are hard for you.
           | 
           | Signs on the tracks tell you what station you're at, what the
           | previous station was and what the next station will be.
           | 
           | Every exit has a number and signs on the walls and ceilings
           | tell you which way you need to walk to get to your
           | destination or transfer.
           | 
           | At the gates there are always maps of the area on the walls
           | to lookup where to go if you don't have a smartphone.
           | 
           | I've been all over the world and I can't think of another
           | transit system that has all of those features. Others are
           | always missing one or more.
           | 
           | As for the person below that mentioned they got help in
           | Ikebukuro station, it's great they got help, but I suspect in
           | their panic they didn't notice all the signs. There is no
           | exit from the JR lines that does not have clear signage to
           | every other line (tobu, seibu Ikebukuro, fukutoshinsen,
           | Marunouchi, Yurakucho, ...)
        
           | mnky9800n wrote:
           | I feel like if you followed the advice and kept inside
           | yamanote this is totally feasible
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | Highly disagree.
           | 
           | A few years ago, I was lost in Ikebukuro trying to find the
           | Metro station. I had already walked over half an hour but
           | only found the JR stations. I asked one of the security
           | guards "Tokyo metro eki.... Doko??" And even with my absurdly
           | broken Japanese, I not only got directions in Japanese back
           | to me, but the guard walked with me until the station was in
           | sight to make sure I understood and could get to it.
           | 
           | You 100% don't need English to get around, and, yeah, it's
           | going to be awkward to talk to someone in a language you
           | don't speak, but Japanese people will go _extremely out of
           | their way_ to help you if you make even the smallest gesture
           | of trying. The little exchange above is only one of several I
           | had throughout the country, and every time I made a small bit
           | of effort, I got the world moved for me.
        
             | oska wrote:
             | > but Japanese people will go extremely out of their way to
             | help you
             | 
             | > I got the world moved for me
             | 
             | I'm somewhat uncomfortable with these characterisations of
             | Japan and the Japanese people. Yes, Japanese people can be
             | helpful to (obvious) visitors but with more and more people
             | visiting Japan visitors shouldn't expect this to keep being
             | the case, nor do visitors necessarily deserve this
             | treatment. It probably will hold true but I don't think we
             | should encourage an entitled attitude of "I'm a visitor,
             | therefore the always helpful Japanese people will help me
             | out of any tricky situations I get into while visiting
             | their country".
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | I don't even know how to respond to this take.
               | 
               | Sorry that the Japanese people are generally far more
               | courteous than anyone else I've met when tourists are in
               | need of help and make an effort to get help in their
               | language. Apparently, pointing out that every person I've
               | encountered has been great to visitors is a bad thing or
               | something.
               | 
               | If someone is going to be a tourist in a foreign place,
               | would you prefer they have a breakdown in the middle of
               | the city because they should expect the locals to be
               | assholes that never help people who don't speak Japanese
               | out? God forbid someone try and interact with a local,
               | that's apparently entitled behavior now. What even is
               | this take?
               | 
               | No, visitors should not _rely_ on locals to help them
               | out, but you also have no proof that the kindness shown
               | will go away anytime soon. It's not like tourism hasn't
               | been booming for the past few decades and nothing has
               | happened. What makes you think something will suddenly
               | change?
        
               | oska wrote:
               | > but Japanese people _will go_ extremely out of their
               | way to help you
               | 
               | You are setting an expectation.
        
               | mynameisvlad wrote:
               | I am anecdotally pointing out my experiences, which
               | explicitly go against the comment I replied to which
               | makes it seem like you will die on the streets in Japan
               | if you wander too much.
               | 
               | Sorry not sorry that my experiences irritate you so much.
               | 
               | And, once again: What, exactly, would you prefer? A
               | gaijin in the middle of Kyoto wailing about not being
               | able to get back to their hostel because they're too
               | scared to approach a local? That person never even
               | experiencing Japan because they're too scared they're
               | going to get lost and be beaten to death by the horrible
               | locals?
        
           | spookthesunset wrote:
           | That is what you have a backup for. When I was in Tokyo
           | google maps and it's transit info was all I needed.
           | 
           | I have no clue how anybody could navigate that city without
           | something like Google Maps.
        
             | Larrikin wrote:
             | If you stay contained to one system you can get nearly
             | everywhere on the map using one transfer. Know where you're
             | starting, know where you're going and then just look for an
             | intersection between the lines. It probably won't be the
             | fastest route, but since you're staying in one system it
             | won't be that expensive. In an emergency where your phone
             | is dead, you'll always be able to get home.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | The subway system is sprawling but, as someone who doesn't
           | know any Japanese, I've never had any real trouble navigating
           | it. Didn't know about woman-only cars but I assume most
           | Japanese would take it as just another clueless foreigner and
           | wouldn't think much else about it.
        
             | traceroute66 wrote:
             | > The subway system is sprawling but, as someone who
             | doesn't know any Japanese, I've never had any real trouble
             | navigating it.
             | 
             | The Tokyo subway was never difficult to navigate. But as
             | someone who has recently returned from a trip to Japan for
             | the first time since COVID I can tell you they've made
             | substantial improvements since (mostly as a result of the
             | run up to the Olympics).
             | 
             | There is now substantially more English signage on the
             | subway than ever before. The ticket machines even now have
             | extensive English language menus.
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | > Tokyo is absurdly gigantic, I would not suggest randomly
           | walking it.
           | 
           | Tokyo is not really a big city like London, New York or
           | Paris. It is like a bunch of smaller cities clumped together.
           | In fact administratively, Tokyo is a prefecture, not a city.
           | 
           | So sure, it is huge, but you can random walk one of the
           | "wards" like you would a smaller city. You can also walk
           | between wards, but expect to walk a lot, and you are unlikely
           | to make it your primary way of moving around, but I still
           | recommend you do it at least once. Biking is also common
           | (note: biking is done on the sidewalk there).
        
           | spike021 wrote:
           | When was the last time you were there? I went in 2019 and
           | 2020 and it was really easy to get around. All stations have
           | signage in English almost everywhere. Google maps says which
           | exit / entrance to come in or leave from, even which car of
           | the train you're on is closest to the path you need to get
           | off.
           | 
           | As for walking, you don't need to walk _everywhere_ but it
           | really is cool to spend a few hours like OP said and just
           | walk around your hotels neighborhood or other places.
           | 
           | I usually stay in Higashi Shinjuku when I visit, and if I
           | hadn't done that I wouldn't have known about this really
           | quiet residential area that leads to a nice quiet park. Or
           | the little Korea town neighborhood that's about a twenty
           | minute walk away.
        
             | packetslave wrote:
             | At least as of a few years ago, a lot of the Google Maps
             | UI/feature work was done out of the Google Tokyo office, so
             | it tends to be _really_ useful there.
        
             | ghaff wrote:
             | Pre-Google Maps, finding specific addresses could be a bit
             | challenging--because of the addressing scheme that I've not
             | totally grokked to this day--but even then I don't recall
             | the subway system being a particular challenge relative to
             | other big systems like New York or London.
        
               | barking_biscuit wrote:
               | >because of the addressing scheme that I've not totally
               | grokked to this day
               | 
               | The buildings are numbered in the order they were built
               | :P
        
       | lordbigglesby wrote:
       | Is it still more or less socially expected to wear a face mask
       | everywhere, even outside? My wife and I are interested to return
       | to Japan, but it won't feel like much of a vacation if we have to
       | be masked 16 hours per day.
        
       | b4je7d7wb wrote:
       | I would be careful with his advise on money. If you came to Japan
       | in the past 3 months with no cash and a Visa card, you would be
       | in deep shit. Visa cards are just not working here and it seems
       | nobody cares to fix it.
       | 
       | Japan is very safe so it's probably fine to just bring your
       | budget in cash. Also outside of the beaten path like he advise
       | people to go it's still very cash heavy society.
       | 
       | Your taxi driver will not be happy when you pay 1200 yen trip
       | with 10000 yen. So please keep some change with you.
        
         | Markoff wrote:
         | Yeah, I really doubt that would be issue for more than few
         | days, any source to this wild claim?
         | 
         | Only thing I could find is that foreign cards might not work in
         | some online payments or mobile payments, which is quite normal
         | everywhere in world, but giving bold statement that your
         | foreign card is useless and you can't even withdraw money from
         | ATM seems like spreading fake news.
         | 
         | https://atadistance.net/2022/09/19/foreign-visa-cards-blocke...
        
           | ValentineC wrote:
           | I literally landed in Japan today for the first time since
           | COVID:
           | 
           | Had problems creating and topping up Suica/PASMO with
           | multiple foreign Visa cards (ended up using Amex), but had
           | absolutely no problems paying with Visa in stores that accept
           | the usual myriad of cards.
        
             | kondro wrote:
             | That's because you generally can't use foreign credit cards
             | to top up Suica.
        
               | erjiang wrote:
               | This is interesting... when I visited recently I realized
               | that Suica on Apple Wallet was more convenient than the
               | physical card. The top reason is that you can use Apple
               | Pay to top up your Suica whenever and wherever you are,
               | without downloading any special app or needing to login
               | to something.
               | 
               | However, one of my credit cards didn't work for that with
               | no clear reason given, but a different one worked almost
               | every time.
        
         | asutekku wrote:
         | YMMV but my visa worked perfectly fine during my trip there
         | last month.
        
           | b4je7d7wb wrote:
           | Interesting, perhaps it has been fixed. I need to try
           | tomorrow. In August it was definitely broken for several
           | weeks for multiple people.
           | 
           | I still recommend some cash. In many cases cashiers have hard
           | time using foreign cards since there might be prompts they
           | are not familiar with. It's sometimes slow and awkward to pay
           | with foreign cards. But if you prefer it and stay around
           | Tokyo you are 95% fine with a charged IC-card and a credit
           | card.
           | 
           | Actually I have even noticed some places and events in Tokyo
           | do not even accept cash.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | teerak wrote:
       | > the boom in tourism in Japan over the last decade or so has
       | made the beaten path... less than wonderful
       | 
       | It's not just Japan. I've been travelling a lot for many years,
       | for work and pleasure, in Asia, Europe, and Latin America. In
       | this time, the experience has become consistently much worse
       | everywhere I go. I personally blame social media and camera
       | phones for this. In the past, a place might be busy, but people
       | were mostly enjoying the place which is all good. Now it's all
       | about people taking the same photo 100 times with slightly
       | different poses. Wannabe influencers using their boyfriends as
       | personal photographers. Youtubers being loud and not caring
       | whether you want to be in their video or not. The list goes on.
       | I'm definitely jaded but between that, airport insanity, and
       | recently covid measures, travelling has never sucked more than it
       | does today.
        
         | jeromegv wrote:
         | Looks like a lot of gatekeeping on your part. This was the good
         | old days when you were travelling but now that other people
         | travel, they are the worst because they take too many selfies.
         | 
         | Negative impact of tourism have been documented for a while.
         | There's just more people traveling because flights got cheaper.
         | But new travellers aren't worse than you were, there's just
         | more of us traveling and it makes our impact more jarring.
        
           | tbcj wrote:
           | It's not gatekeeping to be nostalgic about a moment in time
           | when fewer people were preoccupied with performing for
           | others. To perform in these public spaces necessarily
           | restricts others own freedom in that space (like movement).
           | Everyone is entitled to these public spaces, but there are
           | those who will be bad actors and encroach on others to
           | achieve their performance. There are way more now than ever
           | in history because it is so easy to do (i.e, cameras used to
           | be more cumbersome and expensive and harder to use).
           | 
           | It is gatekeeping to say these people (influencers,
           | youtubers) don't deserve to be there too because they are
           | doing that in this space. I don't think that is what was
           | happening though.
        
           | keb_ wrote:
           | When I visited the Great Buddha in Kamakura a couple of years
           | ago, there were dozens of foreign tourists laying down,
           | sitting, or posing on or next to the statue in a way that our
           | native Japanese friend remarked how disrespectful they were
           | being. I don't think it would've been as bad before
           | smartphones and influencer/YouTube culture, but I can't
           | really say.
        
             | diceduckmonk wrote:
             | > YouTube culture
             | 
             | As in YouTuber Logan Paul making a video of Aokigahara
             | "suicide forest", among various other shenanigans in Japan
             | for views?
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Paul#2017%E2%80%932018:
             | _...
        
               | keb_ wrote:
               | Yes, unfortunately, there are loads of people who look to
               | someone like Logan Paul as someone to emulate and attempt
               | to film their own wacky antics for online popularity
               | contests, at the expense of ordinary folk.
        
               | diceduckmonk wrote:
               | > online popularity contests
               | 
               | It's more than that. People think there is a financial
               | payoff if they win the influencer game.
               | 
               | And when they do make income, their taxable income is
               | likely not going to these countries which they are
               | profiting off of. I guess it's a sort of negative
               | externality.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I generally agree with the comment upthread that it's as
               | much about accessibility as the influencer angle.
               | Although I might not get the best rate (and it is around
               | the holidays) I could basically book a week in Tokyo
               | without any assistance a few days from now if I wanted
               | to.
               | 
               | That said, there is an influencer angle and probably some
               | reasonable number of younger people who see a few people
               | becoming YouTube or TikTok stars and thinking there's a
               | chance they could become one of them.
        
             | jonnybgood wrote:
             | It's funny how tourism hasn't changed for over 2000 years.
             | Greek tourists of antiquity would write graffiti letting
             | others know they were there and leave reviews on Egyptian
             | tombs.
        
           | mc32 wrote:
           | Doesn't look like it. Poster differentiates tourists going in
           | to enjoy places and people who fly in to use places as
           | backdrops for something else.
           | 
           | In other words the new tourists isn't going in to enjoy a
           | place for themselves but does it to amuse people elsewhere
           | and couldn't care much about actually taking in the places
           | they visit.
        
             | bentlegen wrote:
             | He or she preferred a time when the world was less
             | connected, and one's ability to travel was dictated more by
             | wealth, status, and education. Think of a time when to pull
             | off a trip to Japan you had to use a travel agent ($) to
             | assist you in even figuring out what hotel to go to and how
             | to get there. You'd rely on print magazines and books to
             | even first decide where to go, and those only had so many
             | pages to print. Rick Steve can only write so much.
             | 
             | Now thanks to the internet and other technology advances,
             | travel is more accessible (Google Maps), cheaper (flight
             | and hotel comparison tools), and more people are doing it.
             | You also have entire nations that are traveling now in ways
             | they didn't 20 years ago (e.g. China).
             | 
             | Yes, this all means more crowding and it is less pleasant.
             | But social media is just one small input in all of this.
             | The only way it returns to "how it was" is a return to a
             | more exclusionary travel world.
             | 
             | (I expect someone will make a comment about hostels and
             | backpacking. I'm not refuting there were means of travel
             | that were more affordable and accessible. But we're talking
             | about mass accessibility and availability across all
             | markets.)
        
               | michaelt wrote:
               | There was a time when you didn't need a travel agent, but
               | before the rise of social media and camera phones. Budget
               | airlines like Easyjet and online travel agencies like
               | Expedia were around a decade before the iPhone.
        
               | bentlegen wrote:
               | The raw availability of something existing in 1996 (when
               | Expedia launched, a decade before the iPhone) does not
               | mean it was accessible or widespread. How many homes had
               | the internet in 1996? How expensive were the personal
               | computers necessary to access those travel portals? I
               | feel your example only emphasizes the thesis.
        
               | mc32 wrote:
               | By that time you could easily buy second hand PCs for a
               | couple hundred or build your own pretty affordably --even
               | on part-time going to college. For the most part you
               | could use the PCs at work as well.
        
               | bentlegen wrote:
               | https://www.statista.com/statistics/269387/revenue-of-
               | expedi...
        
       | simonw wrote:
       | Can't resist taking this opportunity to link to my favourite ever
       | piece of travel writing, about Huis ten Bosch: the enormous theme
       | park near Nagasaki where the theme of the park is Holland.
       | 
       | https://spikejapan.wordpress.com/2011/01/23/huis-ten-bosch-o...
       | 
       | Seriously: read the whole thing. There's a bit where bankers take
       | investing advice from a psychic ceramic toad. It's wonderful.
       | 
       | When we visited Japan we made a special trip there and it was
       | every bit as amazing as this article makes it out to be.
        
         | wyclif wrote:
         | There's also "Amerikamura" (America Town) in Osaka:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerikamura
        
       | bigDinosaur wrote:
       | Going off the beaten path always amuses me a bit as advice (what
       | happens when everyone decides to do that?) but it's also quite
       | true that you can often be literally tens of metres away from the
       | most touristic locations with barely any tourists actually around
       | you in most places (exceptions include cities that have become
       | theme parks like Venice).
        
         | rjh29 wrote:
         | Well there are basically 10 places in Tokyo everyone goes to,
         | and maybe they go to Kyoto or Osaka too. That leaves... the
         | entire rest of the country. I've travelled around most of Japan
         | and the majority of time I see zero foreigners.
         | 
         | Seriously just pick a random city from Japan Guide or go to an
         | onsen. Visit Kyushu, it's beautiful and nobody seems to travel
         | there because it's too far away :P
        
           | ehnto wrote:
           | Truly. Even if you want to land in Tokyo (since lots of
           | flight deals take you there or Osaka). Grab the Rail Pass
           | before you fly in, then take the bullet train to any number
           | of cities. You'll enjoy relatively low-cost travel thanks to
           | the rail pass, and you'll get to see a bunch of cities that
           | aren't as popular.
        
             | ValentineC wrote:
             | > _Grab the Rail Pass before you fly in_
             | 
             | This doesn't seem to be a must now that JR themselves is
             | selling it online (though at a slightly higher price):
             | 
             | https://japanrailpass.net/en/purchase.html
        
               | rjh29 wrote:
               | That's good to know. Last time I looked at agencies in my
               | country, they were charging more than it costs to buy one
               | in Japan!
        
           | tmtvl wrote:
           | I love Matsumoto (in Nagano Prefecture), it's a lovely city
           | located right in the midst of some beautiful mountains. Nara
           | is also nice, but I'm a mountain boy at heart.
        
             | FunnyLookinHat wrote:
             | I'm planning a trip to Japan (my first), and I'm mostly
             | interested in small towns or villages as day trips from
             | somewhere that is already well outside of Tokyo. Would
             | Matsumoto fit that bill?
             | 
             | Ideally I'd take a train out of the city and rent a car or
             | bike in whatever smaller city I make my hub. Would love any
             | other advice you have, and open to DMs/emails/etc. :-)
        
             | rjh29 wrote:
             | Nice, not had the chance to visit Matsumoto yet! I lived in
             | Kyoto and being surrounded by mountains was definitely one
             | of the nicest parts.
        
         | ehnto wrote:
         | My top tip is, since everyone loves Fushimi Inari Shrine in
         | Kyoto, there's actually a fantastic natural trail network there
         | that I saw no one on. It takes you out through a valley of
         | smaller shrines and graves, and nearly to the top of the
         | mountain still. Then you can take the gates walk on the way
         | down if you still want that experience. The trail had a
         | beautiful uninterrupted view of Kyoto from a natural clearing
         | in the forest canopy. Some of my best photos were from that
         | little diversion.
        
           | chasely wrote:
           | When my wife and I went, I think we "accidentally" went on
           | this trail. Our philosophy is to do the touristy things, but
           | go just beyond what most do. This meant walking past the
           | shrine and onto the trail network where we ran into a number
           | of smaller shrines one the walking path.
           | 
           | Overall I was very impressed with the number of managed
           | walking paths when we were in Japan. Allowed you to get away
           | from the crowds pretty quickly if you'd like.
        
           | davidkuennen wrote:
           | That's the way I walked by accident when I was at that shrine
           | 4 weeks ago. Very beautiful.
        
         | Legogris wrote:
         | For sure. Slight tangent from OP:
         | 
         | > Is climbing Mt. Fuji worth it?
         | 
         | > Yes, though it is very on the beaten path, and you can infer
         | some things from that about what the human experience of a Fuji
         | trip will be like.
         | 
         | As for the hiking trail and the major mountain stations, this
         | is very true. On the other hand - it really is very
         | concentrated and the vast majority of tourists will just head
         | straight to the hotspots.
         | 
         | Case in point: I happen to live here (Fuji 5 Lakes area;
         | technically on Mt Fuji) since a couple of years. Been in and
         | around Tokyo for several years prior. This summer, for the
         | first time since the start of the pandemic, they finally threw
         | the famous usually-yearly fire festival in town here.
         | 
         | It was really something, and even having been to more matsuri
         | than I can count, this one really stood out in how lively it
         | was, and the fact that it went on throughout the evening (the
         | event peaks with the fires after sunset). Packed with locals
         | and even more tourists - many thousands of people, including
         | hundreds of foreigners. The air was electric. You could feel
         | the fires bring out something different in the people. Many
         | were drinking, of course.
         | 
         | At the tail end of the event (around 10pm), I went down to the
         | local bar area and hung around for a bit. 'twas totally dead.
         | Maybe even more than a normal weekend. I didn't see a single
         | non-local soul out on the streets or in the few couple of bars.
         | It was eerie. You'd think at least a percent or two of the
         | visitors would stick around or explore instead of heading
         | straight out or to their private accommodations on the dot?
         | 
         | Anyway, apart from just reinforcing your point and OPs about
         | the beaten path being very narrow: Do come to Fuji, even off-
         | season there's a lot more around here to see and experience
         | than that hike itself and locals are still very much in want of
         | business.
        
           | valenterry wrote:
           | > Do come to Fuji, even off-season there's a lot more around
           | here to see and experience than that hike itself and locals
           | are still very much in want of business.
           | 
           | Please do tell!
        
         | soneca wrote:
         | I think the robustness of the advice is that there is a myriad
         | of unbeaten paths in any place. And, if one particular unbeaten
         | path becomes so popular among unbeaten paths fans that it
         | becomes beaten, there will several others still unbeaten paths.
        
         | pyb wrote:
         | This is kind of true of Venice as well !
        
         | omnibrain wrote:
         | > exceptions include cities that have become theme parks like
         | Venice
         | 
         | Even in Venice, if you leave San Marco and if you cross into
         | San Polo, you just have to leave the Ponte Rialto behind. It
         | also helps if you arrive by boat and land at Fondamente Nove
         | and just don't take the "straight" route to Piazetta San Marco.
         | 
         | Cinque Terre is a similar "theme park" in italy. We've been
         | there on an holiday weekend in spring with really nice weather.
         | The trains were packed like in Tokio during rush hour. But even
         | there, as soon as you left the main route, ascended some
         | stairs, you had amazing views all for yourself and the only
         | other tourists were those you saw down below.
         | 
         | People are just too lazy to take even small detours.
        
           | eCa wrote:
           | Agreed completely about Venice (and Cinque Terre). Sometimes
           | just a couple of blocks away from the signposted route to San
           | Marco is enough. Also, get out early in the morning, before
           | the heat and the day visitors arrive.
        
           | the_af wrote:
           | Cinque Terre is gorgeous though. Out of this world. Unlike
           | Venice, which truly is a cliche theme park to me...
        
       | throwawaaarrgh wrote:
       | Get change (coins) and try things from vending machines -
       | particularly, the hot milk tea on a cold morning, but be prepared
       | to carry your trash all day until you get back home. Try foods in
       | supermarkets or convenience stores, especially weird candy. Bring
       | Google Translate to use live translation mode. If you're not sure
       | if your phone has the right bands for high speed internet, or how
       | to get a sim card, you can rent a phone, though a dude in a suit
       | will come deliver it to you and make you sign the contract. Eat a
       | giant bowl of curry rice at a curry rice place where you choose
       | your order from a giant ticket dispensing machine. Make a friend
       | and join them at an Izakaya. In Tokyo, definitely go to Golden
       | Gai and do karaoke in a tiny bar. The Miyazaki Museum requires
       | advanced tickets and is usually sold out. If you go to Hiroshima,
       | do not miss the Peace Memorial Museum, Miyajima Island, the
       | cherry blossoms, or the okonomiyaki.
        
         | diceduckmonk wrote:
         | > If you go to Hiroshima, do not miss... the cherry blossoms
         | 
         | This is kind of inverted. I followed the cherry blossom bloom
         | West to East across Japan over a span of 2 months. I wouldn't
         | put Hiroshima on the top 10 cherry blossom spots. Sure, if
         | you're already in Hiroshima at the right time, then why not,
         | but if people are actively seeking out cherry blossoms, they'd
         | work backwards from where they want to go, then time it.
         | 
         | In case people were wondering, I thought the cherry blossoms in
         | Hirosaki Castle were the best.
        
       | paulette449 wrote:
       | This "avoid the beaten path for tourists" but also "pick Kyoto".
       | Hmmm.
       | 
       | If you really do want to go (slightly) off the beaten path, try
       | Yokohama (a short hop from Tokyo), Kobe (rebuilt and revitalized
       | since the ruinous earthquake, Fukuoka, Nagano (Winter Olympic
       | city) or Sapporo. Or even take a domestic flight down to Okinawa
       | and visit Naha.
       | 
       | To go off the beaten track in Tokyo, stay in Ikebukuro an
       | unfashionable but IMHO awesome Tokyo hub. For amazing coffee
       | there check out the insanely superb Mermaid Coffee Roasters and
       | its stunning top two floors featuring the owner's curated
       | furniture. Add their knock out baked goods and you won't want to
       | leave. Minami-Ikebukuro park is a nice spot to relax on bright
       | days (next to Blue Bottle coffee) though avoid the in-park
       | Racine's Farm to Table and check out their sister Vietnamese
       | restaurant Raindrop on the trendy Azuma street. Also be sure to
       | walk further along Azuma to the Toden-Zoshigaya Station of the
       | Tokyo Sakura tram line, the last surviving tram in Tokyo, and
       | take it all the way to the Minowabashi terminus and explore the
       | adjacent covered arcade for a taste of old Tokyo.
        
         | latchkey wrote:
         | I spent 4 years living in Vietnam, so I just had to look up
         | Raindrop. Stainless steel tables and Hoi An lights. Definitely,
         | legit vn. ;-)
        
         | patio11 wrote:
         | If you walk literally fifty meters in any direction from the
         | tourist hotspots in Kyoto you'll get an entirely different view
         | of Kyoto, often including a reflection of the charms that
         | brought people to the hotspots.
         | 
         | YMMV; I only lived there for a year and it was a long time ago
         | now.
        
         | diceduckmonk wrote:
         | > This "avoid the beaten path for tourists" but also "pick
         | Kyoto". Hmmm
         | 
         | People conflate Kyoto with the Gion + Kinkaku-ji + Arashiyama +
         | Fushimi Inari. Kyoto city is much wider than that, and every
         | street, especially in the Gion, is dense with history. There's
         | dozens of bridges crossing the Kamogawa river, but most
         | tourists are likely crossing over the one at Gion-shijo. Most
         | tourists don't even stray 1km away from there to see there are
         | stones you can hop over the water with. Sanjo bridge, the first
         | bridge north of Gion-shijo, has sword marks on it from a famous
         | shinsengumi battle. Kyoto, like Jerusalem or Rome, is filled
         | with history on every block. Nearby Sanjo bridge is the temple
         | where Nobunaga Oda was ambushed and forced to commit suicide.
         | Also nearby is a random milestone during the day but at night a
         | fortune teller sets up a shop claiming to channel the spirit of
         | a politician who was assassinated in the exact spot. Most
         | tourists and even Japanese locals would not ever notice the
         | network of mahjong gambling dens hiding in plain site
         | throughout Kyoto city, even in the subway station, but that's
         | not going to be obvious from Google Maps, AtlasObscura, or what
         | have you.
         | 
         | Obviously I'm biased because our startup is based in Kyoto and
         | the company name is based on the Kamogawa river.
        
           | mynameisvlad wrote:
           | ^this
           | 
           | But, honestly, even the tourist hotspots are nice to visit.
           | Kyoto has _so_ many amazing things to see, both popular and
           | off the beaten path, that it's absurd not to recommend if you
           | want to learn more about Japanese culture.
        
       | hinoki wrote:
       | > Note that Japanese reviewers are substantially pickier than you
       | are
       | 
       | No kidding, I see lots of reviews like: food is tasty, service
       | was friendly, price reasonable. 3 stars.
        
         | masklinn wrote:
         | Basically, they use the entire dynamic range. 3 stars for "as
         | expected" is eminently sensible, but the west and especially
         | the US suffers so much from review inflation that you could
         | really remove 2 if not 3 stars of a 5-star scale: either a
         | reddit/hn-style up/down, or possibly have a middle-ground "at
         | expectations".
        
           | fomine3 wrote:
           | Yes this is practical in theory, but it's bad if their rating
           | is mixed to rest of the world. Worldwide products like games
           | review gets fewer stars by Japanese compared to others, some
           | people think it's a problem.
        
           | wyclif wrote:
           | Yeah, a lot of review inflation in the US. I see loads of
           | 4-star reviews on Goodreads as well as the restaurant review
           | apps. I wish people would use the entire range as it makes
           | the review more valuable.
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | But even if you encourage that it's still pointless,
             | because you don't know how people have used it, or with
             | what distribution.
             | 
             | This annoys me with ratings used to train recommendations
             | too, e.g. Netflix, where I don't know how they want me to
             | use it. What if I know it is something I would absolutely
             | not even try watching, should I rate it? Or am I telling it
             | I tried it, and that's a higher rating (because I might
             | give something similar a go too) than none at all? Not to
             | mention the old stars not being mapped into thumbs, or the
             | later addition of double thumbs up meaning only more
             | recently encountered favourites get that accolade.
        
           | diceduckmonk wrote:
           | I remember when I first started using rideshare, the drivers
           | instructed people to leave 4 star ratings if bad, 5 star if
           | good. That's why everyone has a 4+ star ratingz
        
             | OJFord wrote:
             | If someone tells me how to give feedback on them (the
             | nature of it), they're getting the worst possible.
        
         | simonebrunozzi wrote:
         | And American reviewers are pretty much the most generous out
         | there. My rule of thumb is that a 3.5 rating by Japanese
         | equates to a 4.5 rating by Americans. Seriously.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | em500 wrote:
           | Anecdotally it seems that American reviewers tend to give
           | mostly either 1 or 5 stars.
        
           | ThePadawan wrote:
           | I recently started tracking the books I read on GoodReads and
           | their rating system struck me as the most American one yet:
           | 
           | 5 stars: "it was amazing"
           | 
           | 4 stars: "really liked it"
           | 
           | 3 stars: "liked it"
           | 
           | 2 stars: "it was OK"
           | 
           | 1 star: "did not like it"
           | 
           | I wonder how many people, without any other context, would
           | interpret "I'd rate this book 2 out of 5 stars" as "yeah, it
           | was OK".
        
           | tsimionescu wrote:
           | It depends. I've seen reviews like "Excellent food, loved the
           | atmosphere, some of the best <local food> I've had. However,
           | when I asked for the check, waiter came directly with the POS
           | and told me explicitly that tip was not included in the
           | check. 1/5".
        
         | Ekaros wrote:
         | When I think about it. I would expect the food I buy to be 1.
         | tasty, 2. reasonably priced, and 3. service should not be rude.
         | 
         | Now up these in anyway and star rating should go to 4 or 5.
        
         | Ruarl wrote:
         | I mean, how else would you distinguish that restaurant from
         | "Food was sublime, service ranged from movie-star charm to
         | invisibly dealing with my every need, payment was waived in
         | favour of a small donation to my favourite cat charity. 5
         | stars"
        
           | petronio wrote:
           | In my view scores are relative to expectations, usually tied
           | to price. A restaurant with a $50 meal and a 3 star score
           | will likely have better food than one with a $5 meal and 5
           | stars on an absolute scale, but the people who got their $5
           | meal were happy with it and the ones with the $50 meal were
           | disappointed.
        
       | dzhiurgis wrote:
       | What it's like to travel and especially dine with small children?
       | Our is 1 and 3 and not exactly behaved in Japanese nor European
       | terms - they make mess and break things in restaurants. Will we
       | have hard time in Japan?
        
         | workingdog wrote:
         | If you just let them behave as normal you will have
         | exceptionally hard time. Unless you're are _really_ doing your
         | best to correct them and meet behavioral expectations, then you
         | 'll find people are very forgiving. But truly, you'll have to
         | show that you're trying.
        
       | simonebrunozzi wrote:
       | Lovely. Spent 3 months in Kyoto in 2020, at the beginning of the
       | pandemic, and loved Japan, more than my other quick business
       | trips in the past.
       | 
       | Some of my notes, specific to Kyoto, but unsure whether they also
       | apply elsewhere:
       | 
       | Typical food in KYOTO:
       | 
       | - aristocratic kaiseki ryori course dinners
       | 
       | - vegetarian shojin ryori of monks
       | 
       | - simple obanzai ryori home style cooking
       | 
       | - Kyo-wagashi (Kyoto sweets)
       | 
       | - Yudofu (tofu cooked in hot broth vinegar sauce) - try it at
       | Yudofu Sagano. It is famous for tofu kaiseki in Arasihayama
       | 
       | - Yuba (tofu skim)
       | 
       | - Nishin soba: It is a local herring fish soba noodle dish with
       | flavored soy sauce broth. The herring fish perfectly smoked with
       | into sweetness and salty tastes (eat it at Matsuba Soba)
       | 
       | RESTAURANTS in KYOTO you should try if you have the budget for it
       | (expensive, but not REALLY expensive): Cenci (Italian fusion,
       | 1-star Micheln): http://cenci-kyoto.com/menu (I am Italian, I can
       | tell you that this restaurant is a gem)
        
         | swah wrote:
         | What about Kyoto vs Tokyo? Is there also the "small city"
         | experience (calmer streets, slow people) in those cities, in
         | places away from the center, perhaps?
        
           | TheFattestNinja wrote:
           | In my xp not for Tokyo. Best you can get is charming alleys
           | but still busy. Kyoto bit better but still a hard sell on
           | that front
        
           | rippercushions wrote:
           | Kyoto is not a small city: it has over 1 million people and
           | is part of the Keihanshin sprawl of greater Osaka. Go there
           | for the culture, not the city.
        
           | bluepizza wrote:
           | Near Tokyo, you can visit the seaside towns, like Zushi or
           | Enoshima, and get a small town feeling. But only on weekdays,
           | as Tokyoites also want to flee the craziness from the city,
           | and end up crowding the smaller places around it too.
           | 
           | North of Tokyo, you can reach Tsukuba, which is one of the
           | most lovely towns in the Kanto region. Beautiful, spacious,
           | very calm.
        
           | simonebrunozzi wrote:
           | My recent experience doesn't count - frontiers shut down 2
           | days after I arrived, and therefore I lived a very unique
           | Kyoto without tourists.
        
             | higeorge13 wrote:
             | Must have been great right?
        
           | rjh29 wrote:
           | It's a very big city, so yeah there are lots of districts
           | which are quieter. They are essentially small towns all
           | jammed together. I've stayed in a place 15 minutes walk from
           | Shinjuku that was almost dead.
        
       | numair wrote:
        
         | samhuk wrote:
         | This reminds me of the "LBH" acronym that I heard about very
         | often when Japanese locals describe typically western,
         | especially American, tourists, who fit quite well into your
         | identity description.
         | 
         | "Loser Back Home"
         | 
         | I didn't even know this stereotype existed until I got into a
         | "so what do you think about all those escapist western tourists
         | in your country" conversation with one of my Japanese friends
         | (I'm from a very international UK area). Goes to show how
         | withheld it really is. You are certainly right about that.
        
           | rippercushions wrote:
           | I've never heard anybody refer to _tourists_ with that term?
           | FILTH (failed in London, try Hong Kong) etc is for people
           | trying to advance their life /career in Asia, not a visitor
           | in town for a week.
        
             | samhuk wrote:
             | https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=L.B.H.
        
           | numair wrote:
           | _Exactly_ , my friend. If someone has lived here for "all of
           | their adult life" or whatever and doesn't yet know that
           | Japanese society has always been painfully passive aggressive
           | (with a few, um, aggressive-aggressive periods in between), I
           | mean ... I don't know what to say.
           | 
           | There's the LBH phenomenon you mention, and then there's
           | "country club syndrome" for the rich folk -- who look at
           | Japan as one giant country club in which they and their rich
           | foreign friends exist as the only characters, surrounded by
           | "REALLY great service!" It's also important to note that
           | "loser" in Japanese society isn't always what you'd expect,
           | but that's a _long_ conversation.
        
           | barry-cotter wrote:
           | Don't feed the trolls
        
         | Trasmatta wrote:
         | Should tourism be disallowed for everyone except activists? How
         | would local communities respond to outsiders coming in trying
         | to solve local problems without the necessary cultural context?
         | 
         | > It's super hard when the locals are drowned out by hordes of
         | self-interested tourists who have no interest in gender
         | equality, wage suppression, insane zero-consequence sexual
         | harassment + power abuse, and a lot of other issues.
         | 
         | In what way does a tourist spending a week in an area drown out
         | those issues?
        
           | numair wrote:
        
           | barry-cotter wrote:
           | Don't feed the trolls
        
         | jdkoeck wrote:
         | Wouldn't you know, if you pick just the right places to visit
         | in Japan, you might just solve sexism there! Please.
        
         | rjh29 wrote:
         | What do you think that _Japanese_ people are doing when they
         | 're travelling around with their Quan Guo Lu Xing Zhi Yuan ?
         | Are they not allowed to enjoy their vacation because the
         | country has problems?
        
           | numair wrote:
           | _Of course_ Japanese people do it as well, including in their
           | own country (see: Miyakojima). The escapist fantasy problem
           | is something you see in almost every "cool" place. Island
           | paradises, ski towns, Australian country towns, etc all have
           | the same issue -- people thinking they're running away from
           | their problems, but actually bringing them along to wherever
           | they go (hence why all of these places to "rest and rewind"
           | or whatever tend to be easy places to score drugs, meet
           | alcoholics, and so on).
           | 
           | Japan attracts a disproportionate number of foreign people,
           | especially foreign residents, who actively celebrate their
           | ongoing escapist delusion. The difference is, Japanese
           | society is too reserved and passive-aggressive to openly call
           | people out on their BS. Thus, when other foreigners see this
           | happening, we should call it out for what it is.
           | Whattaboutism isn't the answer.
           | 
           | This guy has lived in Japan for long enough to have a bit
           | more balance than this ridiculous how-to guide to being
           | blissfully ignorant of your temporary surroundings while
           | attempting to extract maximum value from them.
        
             | bluepizza wrote:
             | France and the UK attract much more foreign tourists than
             | Japan.
             | 
             | You seem to have lost perspective. Take it easy. It's not
             | that important.
        
             | rippercushions wrote:
             | You seem to be attacking an odd strawman here. patio11 is
             | providing advice to visitors in Japan for a week, a large
             | group of people that has almost zero overlap with the small
             | but noisy "moving to Japan will fix all my problems"
             | weeaboo crowd.
        
           | barry-cotter wrote:
           | Don't feed the trolls
        
       | presentation wrote:
       | Those are some weird restaurant/cafe recommendations for
       | prospective travelers lol
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rdtwo wrote:
       | Anyone know any good guides for traveling with kids? I'd like to
       | take a 1st grader to Japan and I'd like to know where to go
        
       | gcheong wrote:
       | "I like winter sports"
       | 
       | Try the Gala resort. Train from Tokyo right to it. Onsen on-site
       | for after a full day of skiing is a plus:
       | https://gala.co.jp/winter/
       | 
       | Would also recommend jigokudani for onsen and monkeys. There is a
       | good ryokan nearby: http://www.jigokudanionsen.com/guide/
        
       | bsaul wrote:
       | So, he obviously knows better than me, but i prefered osaka over
       | tokyo a lot. If you're european, you'll probably feel the vibe is
       | a bit cooler and more familiar than the typical salaryman tokyo
        
         | higeorge13 wrote:
         | Yeah that's true. As a solo european traveler it was a little
         | bit easier to connect and talk to others in Osaka than Tokyo.
         | And way less tourists, because most of people go to Kyoto i
         | guess.
        
       | pyb wrote:
       | "Very few people take me up on this part of the recommendation:
       | get out of the cities if you are here for more than a week in
       | your life."
       | 
       | Same situation for visitors to the UK. I've given up trying to
       | tell tourists to get out of London, they never listen.
        
         | simondotau wrote:
         | My new rule of thumb for travel is that if I've heard of the
         | city, it probably sucks.
        
           | hk__2 wrote:
           | How does it work in Italy?
        
             | the_af wrote:
             | Rome is amazing, so straight off the bat that piece of
             | advice will not work for everyone.
             | 
             | And I have more examples: Cinqueterre is out of this world.
             | In same cases it's true though: Florence left me
             | unimpressed, but I think it was the fault of the huge
             | influx of tourists and peddlers that ruined everything.
        
         | mlindner wrote:
         | The same situation for people visiting the US and they only
         | ever go to some major US city like New York City or Los
         | Angeles. Visit some place that's more than 100 miles from the
         | ocean and isn't an urban downtown center.
        
           | Trasmatta wrote:
           | If you're only going to one US city though, it might as well
           | be NYC.
        
             | oska wrote:
             | I've known practically all my life that I never want to
             | visit NYC. I would like to visit a city like Pittsburgh
             | though, or Charleston, or Milwaukee (and other US cities
             | and towns smaller than these three too).
        
               | Trasmatta wrote:
               | NYC is an amazing place. What about it makes you want to
               | never visit?
        
               | oska wrote:
               | Never attracted me and the aesthetics of the city and its
               | surrounding immediate environment put me off. (I would
               | still like to visit other parts of New York state
               | though.) There's a weirdness to the city, at least how I
               | see it from afar and, to be fair, I'm sure in a somewhat
               | distorted manner through media. Movies and TV shows set
               | there put me off (even _Seinfeld_ which I enjoy). Only
               | _The Pushcart War_ by Jean Merrill and _The Chosen_ by
               | Chaim Potok have shown me some charm in the place, and
               | the music of New York native Suzanne Vega.
               | 
               | I appreciate that it's an important city, has many
               | cultural attractions and many people love the place. But
               | for me it's too big, too chaotic and, as I say above, too
               | weird, and I would prefer to stay away from it entirely.
        
           | amrocha wrote:
           | Hard disagree. Most US cities outside the coasts are awful
           | places to visit. What's someone gonna do in Phoenix or
           | Denver?
        
             | mantas wrote:
             | Experience what the US actually is?
             | 
             | Traveling should be about experience the local reality, not
             | cherry picking.
        
               | amrocha wrote:
               | The coast is what the US actually is. There's more people
               | on the coasts than not. I truly don't understand where
               | the idea that the coasts aren't the "real" US comes from.
               | They're more real than some city nobody moves to in a
               | state barely anyone lives in.
        
             | barry-cotter wrote:
             | I realise this is more to reinforce your self concept of
             | contempt towards flyover country than out of any
             | familiarity with either place but did you do five minutes
             | research?
             | 
             | I'd happily spend a week in Denver. Looks pretty nice.
             | 
             | https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractions-g33388-Activities-
             | De...
        
               | amrocha wrote:
               | Yep, I've visited both Phoenix and Denver before to see
               | friends. I would not recommend someone coming to the US
               | visit them.
               | 
               | There's a nice cities that are forgotten by international
               | tourists. New Orleans, Nashville, Chicago to name a few.
               | But imo you can skip pretty much anything west of the
               | Mississippi without missing out on much until you get to
               | the coast. I'm not saying all those places suck, just
               | that they're not tourism friendly.
        
               | wyclif wrote:
               | Thing is, I've spent a lot of time in Colorado and
               | there's a lot of beautiful places in the front range of
               | the Rockies that are a short drive from Denver. So yeah,
               | maybe not Denver the city but you're not far from Estes
               | Park or Golden.
        
               | amrocha wrote:
               | Oh for sure, but I don't think most people travel for
               | nature (with a couple exceptions like the grand canyon,
               | Mt Fuji, etc). There's amazing natural beauty all
               | throughout north America.
        
             | pyb wrote:
             | We're not talking about cities here.
        
               | amrocha wrote:
               | Most people aren't traveling for nature
        
           | wyclif wrote:
           | All the Filipinos I meet here say if they could go to the US,
           | the first place they would go is Las Vegas. I tell them,
           | "that's the last place you should go in the US, it's just a
           | tourist trap" but it took me a while to figure out that
           | culturally, they want the tourist trap experience and would
           | prefer Vegas, LA, or NYC to someplace like Bozeman MT, Estes
           | Park CO, Beaufort SC, or <pick your most beautiful town in
           | the US>.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | CPLX wrote:
         | For context I'm an American born to a British expat who has
         | family from Birmingham down to London, Exeter, Reading and
         | Cornwall. I have been to the UK 30-40 times and spent
         | considerable time (spans of weeks) in England outside London
         | both in other cities as well as countryside over the last 40+
         | years.
         | 
         | I'd tell tourists to start with and stay in London unless
         | they're on an unusually long trip. It's the second greatest
         | city in world history and all, the rest of the country is
         | pretty drab by comparison.
         | 
         | Assuming we are talking about England. Scotland and Ireland are
         | another story.
        
           | pyb wrote:
           | The countryside around Reading is incredible. Did you explore
           | it ? In contrast with the city itself, which is pretty
           | generic.
        
         | wyclif wrote:
         | This is quite true, I've found. I have a very extensive pinned
         | map of the UK that I share with people and most of the really
         | interesting places are outside of London.
        
         | ianpenney wrote:
         | Brighton is SO COOL. No sarcasm. Really loved it.
        
         | kissiel wrote:
         | I'm 3 days away from my return flight after spending a month in
         | Japan (I'm here for the first time). I regret leaving the
         | cities. Now I'm back in Tokyo and I feel back at home. My trip
         | was: Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, Kobe, Hiroshima, Miyakojima, Tokyo.
         | Miyakojima, except being tropical "paradise-like island" made
         | me _finish_ two games on my phone.
        
           | zztop44 wrote:
           | Sounds like you went to five cities and Miyakojima. And yeah
           | if you don't like tropical islands (in winter) then it's not
           | surprising Miyakojima wasn't your tea.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | ehnto wrote:
       | This is somewhat adjacent for which I apologize, but being a
       | Japan Fan of the travelling variety I have noticed a trend on HN
       | toward Japan related articles. My understanding is HN has no
       | user-specific algorithmic feed changes, so is this just a natural
       | increase in interest toward Japan in general I'm seeing since the
       | borders opened up? Most of the articles aren't even travel
       | related, just about Japanese culture or people from Japan.
        
         | rizzaxc wrote:
         | you'll find that almost every major corner of the internet is
         | obsessed with Japan
        
         | OJFord wrote:
         | I wouldn't say it's recent, I've long noticed that about HN. I
         | learnt recently that there's a long history of Japanese
         | influence on/immigration to San Francisco; so I think it's
         | largely a symptom of SF-skew, and that influence rubbing off on
         | others of course.
        
         | wingely wrote:
         | Nerds love Japan
        
         | Klonoar wrote:
         | I've actually had a running joke with a friend over this, the
         | tech industry has a fetish for the place that they don't like
         | to acknowledge.
        
         | joenot443 wrote:
         | Japan's just a fascinating place. There's no place quite like
         | it in the world and as cultures exchange and evolve and become
         | more connected, it's unlikely there ever will be.
        
           | publicola1990 wrote:
           | But Japan seems less "fundamental" than many other cultures
           | including the Greeks, Persians and Chinese for example who
           | all lay claim to thousands of years of cultural significance.
           | 
           | Is there a Japanese equivalent of Budha or Aristotle or
           | Confucius.
        
             | khuey wrote:
             | Does it matter? The distinctiveness is what attracts
             | people, not the age.
        
             | workingdog wrote:
             | It's fair to say the culture is younger, but they have a
             | very complete Shinto deity mythos that's just as lavish and
             | nuanced as the Greek gods.
             | 
             | The isolation provided by being an hard to reach island
             | has, in my opinion, made their culture quite differentiated
             | and useful to contrast my own culture with.
             | 
             | For example, I learned from the Japanese that children are
             | much more capable than my own culture thinks they are. So I
             | don't coddle them as much as my peers do.
        
               | Vt71fcAqt7 wrote:
               | >The isolation provided by being an hard to reach island
               | has, in my opinion, made their culture quite
               | differentiated and useful to contrast my own culture
               | with.
               | 
               | Not really. Vast portions of pre-modern Japanese culture
               | was borrowed from China. From fashion and art to
               | language, philosophy and religion. Even the "very
               | complete Shinto deity mythos" is not what you claim:
               | 
               | >Even among experts, there are no settled theories on
               | what Shinto is or how far it should be included, and
               | there are no settled theories on where the history of
               | Shinto begins[0]
               | 
               | And true Shintoism has been dead for centuries.
               | 
               | >I learned from the Japanese that children are much more
               | capable than my own culture thinks they are.
               | 
               | It's actualy the opposite. Modern childhood innocence, to
               | the extent that it is a new development _, is a western
               | export that has it 's roots in romanticism. It isn't
               | really unique to Japan to not have it to the same extent.
               | 
               | People like Japan because of anime, which does have it's
               | roots in Japanese art, although it has become somewhat
               | overstated and in any event was borrowed from Chinese.
               | 
               | What it is in my opinion is that Japan was the first of
               | the east asian countries to become rich. So people who
               | like east asian culture "found" Japan first, then came up
               | with all this Japanese exceptionalism. Which is really
               | shockingly ignorant being that China was _the* culture
               | for almost an entire millennium. Chinese silk, jade, tea,
               | and what else, fine china were found in all royal palaces
               | around the world. You can even see it's effect on fashion
               | in some 16-17th century english art.
               | 
               | None of this is to say thag Japan doesn't have a unique
               | culture, but it is heavily overstated in the last two
               | decades. It was also used to explain Japan's economic
               | rise in 1980. Now that Taiwan and Korea have done the
               | same that element has been conveniently forgotten.
               | 
               | [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Shinto
               | 
               | *That is, to the extent that it didn't already exist
               | before. High childhood mortality prevented the concept
               | childhood innocence as it exists and is manifested today
               | (such as coddling).
        
       | distantaidenn wrote:
       | As another long term resident of Tokyo (10 years and counting), I
       | honestly can't understand why Patrick would recommend anyone give
       | their business to APA Group.
       | 
       | As others in this thread have mentioned, this hotelier group is
       | abhorrent. They are led by an anti-Semitic, anti-Korean, anti-
       | Chinese history revisionist. The hotel leaves its disgusting
       | diatribe in their company issued magazines conveniently laid out
       | in every room within their hotels. This is just the tip of the
       | iceberg:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APA_Group_(Japan)#Controversy.
       | Here's another link:
       | https://www.ft.com/content/d35ec458-df07-11e6-86ac-f253db779....
       | 
       | Given Patrick is a long-term resident of Japan, it's shocking to
       | me that he isn't aware of this, or he simply doesn't care.
       | 
       | For anyone reading this, please do not support that company. It
       | may seem a small thing, but this ruined the entire tone of the
       | post for me.
        
         | justusw wrote:
         | Having accidentally stayed there before, I can confirm that
         | they have their weird in-house magazine, even translated to
         | English, in every hotel room. Even more obnoxious than the
         | Gideon bible.
        
         | diceduckmonk wrote:
         | Unfortunately, I think there are class of travelers (and ex-
         | pats) who simply don't care about history or the current state
         | of affairs. They travel to places for the picture. For Japan,
         | many people stop at the soft power and pop culture. Chinese
         | celebrities have gotten in trouble for posting on social media
         | their visit to political controversial shrines. In those cases,
         | I don't even think it's out of malice or making a political
         | statement, but plain ignorance.
        
         | sammy2255 wrote:
         | So the only reason against them is because of their ideologies?
         | If the hotels are nice, and cheap, I couldnt care less what
         | their ideologies are.
        
           | distantaidenn wrote:
           | As a human that attempts to respect other cultures, and also
           | as a multiracial person with Chinese ancestry: then yes, I am
           | against them because of their racist ideologies.
        
           | kanbara wrote:
           | this is a horrid take, and one of the reasons why the world
           | is so hateful and why people with hateful ideologies end up
           | with more and more wealth and power. when i travel, or even
           | just live my daily life, i try to not do business with
           | individuals or enterprises whose modus operandi is to look
           | down on others
        
       | ronyfadel wrote:
       | It misses out on the 2 best places I've visited in Japan
       | (possibly ever visited):
       | 
       | - Naoshima island: a beautiful serene island dedicated to
       | contemporary art. Such a surreal experience.
       | 
       | - Shimanami Kaido: a 60km bike path linking an archipelago of
       | rural islands in the sea of Hiroshima. The bridges looking the
       | islands are something out of Blade Runner.
        
       | MarkSweep wrote:
       | A couple of observations from my recent trip:
       | 
       | * currently everyone wears masks everywhere all the the time.
       | There are stores here and there that sell masks in a variety of
       | styles, so you can color-coordinate with you outfit if you want.
       | 
       | * submit your vaccination card before arrival. Otherwise you are
       | going to be in a long line.
       | 
       | * all iPhones since the 8 have native Suica support. You can add
       | it in the wallet up. It's the fastest way to use the train and
       | pay for stuff in general. It has fairly wide acceptance for lower
       | value transactions: vending machines, convince stores,
       | restaurants, taxis.
       | 
       | * for faster internet, you can get an eSIM before you go. This is
       | much easier and cheaper than buying a SIM on arrival. Having
       | faster network access is handy for checking train schedules and
       | using QR code ordering systems that are in some restaurants. Try
       | not to read hacker news all the time ;-)
       | 
       | * bringing large luggage on trains is a pain (stairs in stations,
       | crowded trains, limited baggage area in reserved trains (besides
       | Narita Express)). Carry on size is ok. If you need the large
       | luggage for a long trip to Tokyo, it's probably easiest to take a
       | bus from the airport to Tokyo City Air Terminal (or the Yokohama
       | version) and then a taxi or Uber Black to your hotel. Then use a
       | duffel bag for trips further out like to the beach or a ryokan.
       | An advanced option is using a mail currier between hotels and the
       | airport, but I have not personally tried that way.
        
         | tafda wrote:
         | On the last point, luggage delivery hotel-to-hotel and hotel-
         | to-airport is easy and one of my favorite unique services in
         | Japan! About $15 per bag and then you don't have to carry your
         | bag through the train station. Except on trains that
         | specifically go to the airport e.g. N'EX / Narita Express,
         | seems all local tourists use a luggage delivery service
         | service.
         | 
         | There's a long form to fill out in Japanese, but any hotel
         | front desk has been able to help me with it. Most convenience
         | stores also have a sign with the distinctive yellow cat-
         | carrying-kitten logo of Yamato Taq-Q-Bin:
         | 
         | https://www.global-yamato.com/en/hands-free-travel/scene02.h...
        
       | muststopmyths wrote:
       | I did notice the change in Japan from 2008 to 2016. Got yelled at
       | by a surly JR ticket person, which I found surprising.
       | 
       | Didn't like Kyoto as much the second time around but I spent a
       | lot of time outside the big cities and it is such a beautiful
       | country with lovely people.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | I've been to Japan on five visits. From my limited experience, I
       | agree with what the blog suggests.
       | 
       | Best side-trip was when we departed the bullet train halfway
       | between Tokyo, Kyoto and opted for a few days in the Kiso Valley
       | -- primarily to hike a stretch of the ancient Nakasendo highway.
       | That also allowed the family to stay one night in a ryokan, and
       | another night at a fairly luxurious onsen.
       | 
       | Never mind the English signs had more for less disappeared and
       | you got to feel a little more of a sense of being "on your own".
       | 
       | https://passionpassport.com/nakasendo-trail/
        
       | zdw wrote:
       | Anyone have recommendations for a good place to visit that would
       | show traditional Japanese woodworking (cabinetry, etc.)
       | techniques?
        
         | diceduckmonk wrote:
         | Takenaka Carpentry Tool Museum in Kobe. Most exhibits are in
         | Japanese only but if you know woodworking you can probably
         | piece together what the tools do.
        
       | kristopolous wrote:
       | I'm in Japan right now. I've heard this advice almost word for
       | word from other people and the best advice I can give is don't
       | take anyone's advice.
       | 
       | Japanophiles, shockingly, have different interests than a casual
       | tourist which are dramatically different yet again than someone
       | who is, say, a vegan coffee connoisseur or a car fan who probably
       | wants to drive on the roads and not take transit or say a
       | typography nerd who would be attending printing and stationary
       | museums. Want to get sloshed and spend the night with hookers?
       | Lots of that as well. Have fine tea on a windy road overlooking
       | Mt fuji? Fuck it, go ahead.
       | 
       | Here's an example. I went to a sword museum. I overheard someone
       | leaving saying how incredible and wonderful the place was. All I
       | saw were nearly identical looking swords that had won awards. It
       | was dull and repetitive for me, just metal chunks behind glass
       | but that sword dude was doing backflips over it. Whatever. Maybe
       | that was like famous celebrity swords, I've got no idea.
       | 
       | The point is, don't listen to anybody. Theme it though to narrow
       | your scope. Whatever your interest is let it guide you. Maybe
       | you're a fan of shopping mall architecture, there's plenty of
       | that here. Maybe you like say, umbrellas, there's umbrella
       | stores, people making them by hand, umbrella technology displays,
       | it's very Japanese.
       | 
       | You don't need to know Japanese, sure, just like you don't need
       | to know English in the US. But being able to read and talk to
       | people is surprisingly helpful. Important things are English-
       | enough but don't be scared of Japanese, children master it fine,
       | you can do it if you put in the hours. There's plenty of half-
       | assed guides for busy people. Functional Japanese isn't insane.
       | Receipt is reshito, elevator is erebeta, they know the words
       | toilet, taxi and metro...you'd be surprised how quickly you can
       | get to non-clueless.
       | 
       | If you can set aside at least 2 weeks and you don't mind spending
       | say $300/day or so you'll likely fill that time pretty easily.
       | It's vacation, take it easy. Next time you get laid off, don't
       | rush to the next job. Do stuff like this instead.
       | 
       | Also don't worry, you can always come back later.
       | 
       | Oh wait, one thing. This is the only real advice. There's travel
       | SIMs at convenience stores. You'll probably be throttled at 256K
       | with your foreign carrier, it's painful. The modern web is bulky
       | and unforgiving. But maybe that's fine for you.
       | 
       | You can download Google maps for offline use and take photos of
       | things with Google translate - it's not terrible for descriptive
       | things and menus.
       | 
       | Hotel room sizes are fine. The crazy small ones are super cheap.
       | Pay normal hotel prices and you'll be ok. The toilets are indeed
       | high tech and weird and trash cans and napkins are mysteriously
       | absent most places. Go to Starbucks if you need that, they're
       | identical to the US ones
        
         | the_af wrote:
         | I agree with you about not listening to anybody. Even here on
         | HN. I mean, people saying "stay out of the cities" -- nope!
         | Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, they are all beautiful and interesting and
         | worth spending time in, if that's your "theme" as you called
         | it.
         | 
         | "Stay out of tourist traps" -- nope! Takayama is amazing. And
         | there was a Wasabi farm (I forget where) to which we went
         | biking which was one of my favorite experiences in Japan. I'm
         | sure it was a tourist trap and there's much to be derided by HN
         | connoisseurs -- to hell with them.
         | 
         | Osaka at night, just looking at its tall and futuristic-looking
         | buildings, is amazing.
         | 
         | So don't skip the cities. Or do. Don't pay attention to me,
         | just theme your visit according to your interests and screw
         | everyone else's advice.
         | 
         | As if everyone liked the same things and there was a single way
         | to enjoy your vacations.
        
         | kalleboo wrote:
         | > _Oh wait, one thing. This is the only real advice. There 's
         | travel SIMs at convenience stores_
         | 
         | These days, I'd recommend getting a travel eSIM so you set it
         | up in advance and hit the ground running (what with the entry
         | vaccine check being a web site QR code you need to load on
         | flakey airport wifi)
        
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