[HN Gopher] The U.S. military is poisoning Okinawa
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The U.S. military is poisoning Okinawa
        
       Author : VagueMag
       Score  : 234 points
       Date   : 2022-12-04 09:46 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.militarypoisons.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.militarypoisons.org)
        
       | voxadam wrote:
       | Isn't the U.S. military also poisoning the citizens of Puerto
       | Rico?
        
         | aperson_hello wrote:
         | It's basically poisoning anywhere where it has presence (see
         | camp lejeune lawsuits for a recently litigated example)
        
         | capableweb wrote:
         | Don't you mean the citizens of the United States? They might be
         | residents of Puerto Rico, but according to law they are
         | citizens of the US.
         | 
         | > All persons born in Puerto Rico on or after April 11, 1899,
         | and prior to January 13, 1941, subject to the jurisdiction of
         | the United States, residing on January 13, 1941, in Puerto Rico
         | or other territory over which the United States exercises
         | rights of sovereignty and not citizens of the United States
         | under any other Act, are declared to be citizens of the United
         | States as of January 13, 1941. All persons born in Puerto Rico
         | on or after January 13, 1941, and subject to the jurisdiction
         | of the United States, are citizens of the United States at
         | birth.
         | 
         | https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim...
         | 
         | Edit: Sorry, I realized now that "citizen" has two meanings,
         | one of legal status and one meaning just "residing in". I'm
         | assuming you meant the latter while I only knew of the first
         | one before.
        
           | voxadam wrote:
           | I'm sorry, I should have phrased my comment more carefully. I
           | never meant to insinuate that Puerto Ricans aren't United
           | States citizens. I was only pointing out that the U.S.
           | military has been poisoning Puerto Ricans by way of
           | unregulated hazardous waste burns and the widespread use of
           | depleted uranium during wargames for decades, generations.
        
         | defrost wrote:
         | . . . and the residents near Pearl Harbour, Hawaii thanks to
         | the Navy's massive fuel tank facility sunk into the mountains
         | there.
         | 
         | On the up side it is finally being closed, on the down side
         | it's been leaking for decades.
        
       | ThePhysicist wrote:
       | Okinawa is roughly 100 km long and 10 km wide with a surface area
       | of 1.200 km2, so not sure I'd call it "tiny".
        
         | newsclues wrote:
         | Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake is 651,739 acres. Military
         | land use is large.
        
           | metaphor wrote:
           | To reference China Lake's land use as if it were anything
           | remotely close to the median military installation is
           | outright absurd and disingenuous at best.
        
             | newsclues wrote:
             | Fort Bragg is 163,000 acres.
             | 
             | Military bases and ranges are big.
        
               | metaphor wrote:
               | ...which is atypically large even for the Army because of
               | the sheer number of tenants it now supports after 2005
               | BRAC consolidation, including Pope AFB, and yet still
               | relatively small land-wise compared to China Lake
               | supporting ~10% the personnel.
               | 
               | I'm not denying that military bases aren't large---
               | although I'd be willing to argue that the land is used
               | quite inefficiently---but trying to pass the Navy's
               | single largest weapons test range, or the Army's
               | consolidation of 3 bases into 1 as somehow representative
               | of the median is absurd.
        
       | ryanackley wrote:
       | It's also a big problem in communities surrounding domestic USA
       | bases. I live in a community with an Air Force base. They tested
       | the groundwater after a cluster of cancer cases appeared in
       | graduates of the local high school. The PFAS levels were off the
       | charts
        
         | api wrote:
         | Part of why the US now fully acknowledges Area 51 (more or
         | less) is lawsuits by former workers over cancers and other
         | conditions caused by exposure to toxic materials.
         | 
         | https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/area-51-secre...
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | the-printer wrote:
         | I've been hearing a lot of those "If you or a loved one have
         | been affected..." style of commercials lately talking about
         | Camp Lejeune some decades ago.
        
           | ben_w wrote:
           | Likewise, but spam email. Am currently getting even more spam
           | about Camp Lejeune than even the "you've been awarded $10
           | million" messages.
        
         | dtech wrote:
         | What do military bases do specifically causing this
         | contamination?
        
           | nonameiguess wrote:
           | No idea specifically with PFAS, but in general, military
           | installations are used for military training, which has many
           | of the same pollution properties of an actual war. Spent
           | rounds, links, casings for missiles, rockets, tank rounds,
           | exploded C4, spilled fuel and lubricants. A great deal of
           | effort goes into cleaning up after exercises, but you're
           | never going to get it all. This is at least part of the
           | reason training areas tend to be fairly isolated and remote
           | and ideally nowhere near the water source for a human
           | population. But also why the military has a pretty consistent
           | history of settlement awards for raising cancer rates in at
           | least the families of the personnel themselves who have no
           | choice but to live there.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | sgtnoodle wrote:
           | I believe they routinely dump large quantities of PFAS based
           | chemicals onto runways for whatever reason, then let it run
           | down storm drains.
        
           | gpcr1949 wrote:
           | I was wondering the same thing. I found this in a guardian
           | article
           | 
           | > The military's firefighters use aqueous film-forming foam,
           | or AFFF, which contains extremely high levels of PFAS, in
           | training exercises and emergencies. Though AFFF is effective,
           | it has led to widespread contamination around bases and
           | airports, and Congress just mandated the military check for
           | PFAS pollution at 700 facilities while earmarking $571m for
           | cleanup, though observers say the cost will likely be much
           | higher.
           | 
           | https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/06/military-
           | bas...
        
           | stephen_g wrote:
           | They would do firefighting training using foams that
           | contained carcinogenic PFAS compounds. PFAS are extremely
           | persistent, both in the environment and in the body. Apart
           | from the risk from direct contact with the foams, it also
           | would accumulate in the ground and then leech into
           | groundwater, rivers, streams, oceans etc. so gets into local
           | water and food supply. These foams were a problem in civilian
           | airports too but not to the same extent as military.
           | 
           | Also in a lot of ways the military just seems to have safety
           | standards a few decades behind everyone else. Various fuels,
           | solvents and lubricants they use for aircraft etc. also
           | contain carcinogenic compounds, and they just seem to have a
           | history of never disposing of them properly (an example is
           | the burn pits in Afghanistan where they would just dig big
           | holes and burn toxic solvents along with plastic waste etc.
           | in the air, causing huge health problems and many deaths for
           | a lot of veterans).
        
             | nszceta wrote:
             | They didn't just burn plastic waste and solvents in the
             | burn pits; they burned everything: even hundreds of brand
             | new iPads and other electronics.
        
               | treypitt wrote:
               | source?
        
               | driverdan wrote:
               | Search for "military burn pits" and you'll learn a lot
               | about them. Wikipedia is also a good place to start:
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_pit
        
               | nszceta wrote:
               | People I talked to that did the burning
        
             | pvaldes wrote:
             | Isn't ironic that we can clone, copy and made a cheaper
             | replacement of any real product in the planet in a couple
             | of weeks, except those who really would benefit of that
             | treatment?
             | 
             | Why is not the government making a lower quality, cheaper
             | foam to use in those training seasons that does not cause
             | cancer? That would save a lot of money.
             | 
             | Or just buying their training foam from Amazon...
        
             | dspillett wrote:
             | _> military just seems to have safety standards a few
             | decades behind everyone else_
             | 
             | I suspect they have the same standards as most industry.
             | They just have a ton of exceptions and other get-out
             | clauses in the form of national safety arguements.
             | 
             | These arguements will fall off steadily as new
             | materials/techniques become commonplace, it becomes shown
             | that the risks don't justify the supposed national safety
             | benefits, or (in the case of bases on foreign soil)
             | relevant treatises come into effect, so safety procedures
             | will be seen to "catch up".
             | 
             | Though sometimes on top of "national security" reasons
             | there is also the "who will know until far too late if
             | ever" thinking to contend with...
        
               | krick wrote:
               | If you don't give a shit about some "standards" it
               | doesn't really make sense that you "have these
               | standards".
        
               | TEP_Kim_Il_Sung wrote:
               | As a veteran, I can confirm they have the same or
               | standards as industry, or better. However, they also
               | waive a lot of those standards.
        
               | tremon wrote:
               | So the problem is lack of enforcement, rather than lack
               | of standards? What good does having a standard do if it's
               | not consistently applied?
        
           | meindnoch wrote:
           | Firefighting foams
        
             | mirekrusin wrote:
             | What's wrong with water?
        
               | jabl wrote:
               | Same reason you're not supposed to extinguish an oil fire
               | in your frying pan by splashing water on it.
        
               | Brian_K_White wrote:
               | it doesn't foam
        
               | Eleison23 wrote:
        
               | kennend3 wrote:
               | I though this was "common knowledge" but here goes.
               | 
               | There are different class fire extinguishers depending on
               | what is on fire.
               | 
               | https://vanguard-fire.com/what-are-the-5-different-
               | classes-o...
               | 
               | You cant use water on any sort of "gas" fire because the
               | gas (airplane fuel, etc) will simply float on top of the
               | water and remain on fire. Throwing water on it can
               | actually help it spread as well.
        
               | mirekrusin wrote:
               | In recent fire truck vs airplane crash on the airport
               | they used water and it seem to worked well.
               | 
               | We're talking about open air fire treated with
               | carcinogenic foam in large quantities where 1m+ large
               | flakes land in somebody's private garden.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | Water alone:
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/3ZKBBtwNaRI
               | 
               | Water with foaming agent:
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/WVOmm4Fw6hc
        
           | runjake wrote:
           | Fuels and other petroleum fluids, which military bases use _a
           | lot_ of. Munitions, munition byproducts, biowaste, various
           | other fluids such as carcinogenic firefighter fluids,
           | aircraft engines, tank engines, we would run internal
           | combustion engines (generators, HVAC, misc) like there was no
           | tomorrow because fuel was effectively free. Those are just
           | the stuff I can think of off the top of my head, but I keep
           | coming up with more so I'll stop writing now.
           | 
           | Don't ever live on or near a decommissioned military base.
        
           | simongr3dal wrote:
           | The article mentions that "health activists" have been denied
           | access to the bases, I don't think it's too much to imagine
           | that Japanese authorities could also be facing significant
           | bureaucratic hurdles to gain access and actually determine
           | the source of pollution.
           | 
           | They give an example of both military and civilian
           | firefighters doing training that involve using a lot of fire-
           | suppressing foam. These foams contain carcinogenic compounds
           | that can be washed into the groundwater by rain.
           | 
           | In Denmark we have recently had just that happen to people
           | living near firefighter training grounds [link]
           | 
           | link (machine translated since I couldn't find anything in
           | english): https://www-dr-
           | dk.translate.goog/nyheder/indland/store-maeng...
        
           | ArnoVW wrote:
           | I would hope that the Standard Operating Practise is adapted
           | to local conditions, and that this sort of thing would not
           | happen next to urban areas, but a good example of the typical
           | mindset:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKNfFm0QDXQ
           | 
           | Btw, this is from a Youtube channel of an Emergency medic.
           | It's sort of Doctor House, but with real cases. He makes his
           | videos to attract attention to certain things, so that people
           | don't end up in the emergency ward. Highly recommend.
        
           | devoutsalsa wrote:
           | I used to live on Treasure Island, a former naval base in San
           | Francisco. It turns out my former house contained radioactive
           | from atomic weapons testing in the Pacific. That explains my
           | third arm.
           | 
           | https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/navy-finds-
           | radiation-i...
        
           | basch wrote:
           | https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/25/us-
           | mil...
           | 
           | David Bond has a series of articles about things like this.
        
           | morbidious wrote:
           | And moreover why does America have to poke its nose into
           | other countries and establish military bases there?
        
             | akomtu wrote:
             | It goes all the way back to WW2. Japan was playing for the
             | wrong team and that team lost. Since then Japan is
             | effectively a vassal of the US.
        
               | morbidious wrote:
               | But don't Americans have any shame for wiping out so many
               | innocent lives in the nuclear bombings, yet still have
               | the audacity to make Japan their vassal state?
        
         | bamboozled wrote:
         | Do you think only "USA" bases have problems?
         | 
         | Like why would only US air force bases have this problem? Do
         | other countries use eco-friendly / biodegradable materials on
         | their bases?
         | 
         | Edit: This is not to say I think it's "OK" that this is
         | happening, I feel the USA should strive to be way better than
         | this, I just doubt this happens on American bases only.
         | 
         | Edit 2: Little bit surprised and disappointed about the down
         | votes, I'm not trying to discount this is an American base, but
         | if the issue is these use of toxic chemicals used in things
         | likefirefighting exercises, it's happening everywhere in the
         | world and should be stopped?
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | throwaway78987 wrote:
           | Don't be surprised by the downvotes. There seems to be a
           | little bit of the "USA BAD" vibe here right now ~ especially
           | in terms of the military. The US does seem to emphasize
           | training and preparedness over simply having equipment which
           | could lead to higher relative levels of contamination when
           | compared to other militaries. I'm not sure if that is the
           | case, but I recall the training differences being considered
           | a factor when evaluating operational challenges (for example
           | Saddam's iraqi troops vs Cold War Soviets in the same
           | equipment and situation ~ the Soviets would be expected to
           | present a significantly harder challenge just by virtue of
           | better training ~ at least in theory)
        
             | bamboozled wrote:
             | I guess if what you're saying is true, they can replace the
             | foam with water or similar for the majority of training.
        
           | pmontra wrote:
           | It might be a common problem to all air forces around the
           | world but how many other countries have so many air bases
           | around the world? I guess that no Japanese ever complained
           | about the environmental impact of an Italian or French air
           | force base in Okinawa.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | How did the community respond? And did the base start cleaning
         | up its operations?
        
       | nomilk wrote:
       | For anyone else who didn't have a clue what PFAS were, an
       | Australian Department of Defence website gives a nice 101:
       | https://defence.gov.au/Environment/pfas/pfas.asp
       | 
       | Key points:
       | 
       | > PFAS stands for per- and poly-fluoroalkyl substances
       | 
       | > Legacy firefighting foams containing perfluorooctane sulfonate
       | (PFOS) and perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) as active ingredients
       | were once used extensively worldwide and within Australia,
       | including at Defence bases, due to their effectiveness in
       | fighting liquid fuel fires.
       | 
       | > In 2004 Defence commenced phasing out its use of legacy
       | firefighting foam containing PFOS and PFOA as active ingredients
       | and transitioned to a more environmentally safe product.
       | 
       | > The release of PFAS into the environment has become a concern,
       | because we've learned these chemicals can persist in humans,
       | animals and the environment.
        
       | hornet301 wrote:
       | It's happening not only Okinawa but anywhere around the U.S.
       | military bases in Japan.
       | 
       | https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20221124/k10013899691000.ht...
        
         | dontbenebby wrote:
         | I heard a rumor the true source of the weirdness around Area 51
         | was if they admitted folks had been there, they'd be admitting
         | they'd been exposed to certain chemicals rather than the
         | weirdness around UFOs.
         | 
         | (There are other places to test aircraft that Alex Jones won't
         | wander into with a video camera.)
        
       | Tepix wrote:
       | I'm wondering if they are also poisoning the area around the
       | German bases.
        
       | lizardactivist wrote:
       | The article states that the US even denies it and interfers when
       | the local government wants to investigate.
       | 
       | Absolutely despicable, well on form for the US.
        
       | tasuki wrote:
       | The "snowflake"... how did it get there?
        
       | pirate787 wrote:
       | This is a PFAS issue more than a military issue. The people who
       | manufactured PFAS and the regulators who approved the use of PFAS
       | need to be held to account.
        
         | Tepix wrote:
         | Not really. The dangers of PFAS have been known for quite a
         | while. Most have stopped using it long ago.
        
           | LinuxBender wrote:
           | I thought that too. There is a video by John Oliver talking
           | about PFAS and the other hundred or so variants of these
           | compounds. [1] There are other videos talking about how
           | companies can still use these compounds because the EPA only
           | outlawed about 3 of the 130 or so.
           | 
           | [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU [video]
        
           | mlindner wrote:
           | > Most have stopped using it long ago.
           | 
           | This isn't really true.
        
           | bamboozled wrote:
           | This is strange logic, if you know something is bad, but you
           | approve it's use anyway, you're in the wrong.
        
         | mlindner wrote:
         | PFAS is not a single chemical. It's an entire family of
         | chemicals and eliminating them destroys a lot of modern society
         | as they're used for literally everything. There's basically no
         | way they're all getting banned. Some of the worst are getting
         | banned, but that's it.
        
           | Eleison23 wrote:
        
         | mensetmanusman wrote:
         | PFAS have been used for almost a century, just long enough to
         | figure out which ones need to be more regulated. Is certainly a
         | trade off because they have superior safety properties in terms
         | of fire mitigation.
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | Every air field in the world that had fire drills in the last 50
       | years have PFAS in the surrounding environment.
       | 
       | It's extremely hard to clean out, although not impossible. Using
       | certain plants to collect the PFAS from water, then harvesting
       | and incinerating them has been shown to work.
       | 
       | I'm assuming there is no current use of PFAS in these bases now.
       | The economic responsibility for cleanup and compensation is of
       | course with the US.
        
         | blahblah1234567 wrote:
         | Unfortunately, Incinerating sounds like a way to release PFAS
         | or some sort of breakdown of them into other (perhaps similar
         | or worse) chemicals, into the air. At which point, they will
         | float and disperse and likely fall back onto/into the land or
         | water.
         | 
         | I imagine they're a colloid in water. And so perhaps they
         | precipitate out of air (vapor?) and into land/water.
        
       | curiousgal wrote:
       | It's interesting looking at the contrast between the comments on
       | this thread and the one about Iran abolishing morality police.
       | 
       | Other thread : "yeaaah it's an empty gesture"
       | 
       | This thread: "yeaaah we know"
        
       | notlukesky wrote:
       | The Okinawans vote against military bases are ignored:
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Okinawan_referendum
        
         | pirate787 wrote:
         | Your post is dishonest the vote was against a specific landfill
         | project.
        
           | Kukumber wrote:
           | dishonest?
           | 
           | the US does know how to split communities, they weren't
           | stupid when they chose Okinawa
           | 
           | i'm pretty sure in the future Okinawa will be the Taiwan of
           | Japan
           | 
           | i'd bet all my savings
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryukyuan_people
           | 
           | https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/abe-ignores-
           | cont...
        
             | resoluteteeth wrote:
             | > the US does know how to split communities, they weren't
             | stupid when they chose Okinawa
             | 
             | > i'm pretty sure in the future Okinawa will be the Taiwan
             | of Japan
             | 
             | > i'd bet all my savings
             | 
             | Let me get this straight. You think that the US occupied
             | Okinawa until 1972 and then returned it to Japan, only to
             | then decide to play 12 dimensional chess by intentionally
             | antagonizing okinawans and making them hate the us by all
             | the problems they've caused with their military presence,
             | so that Okinawa will some day split from japan and... do
             | what?
             | 
             | Because they sure as hell aren't going to want to have
             | anything to do with the US. Maybe they'll become a vassal
             | state of China again like under the Ryukyu kingdom? I'm not
             | sure that outcome would show that the US wasn't stupid.
        
           | boomboomsubban wrote:
           | That vote was about a specific project, there was an earlier
           | more general one that is also discussed in the linked
           | article. Or see
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Okinawan_referendum
        
           | ahelwer wrote:
           | A specific landfill project to... what?
           | 
           | > The referendum asked whether voters approved or opposed the
           | landfill work at Henoko Bay for the construction of a new
           | United States Marine Corps base.
           | 
           | Can you explain how this is dishonest?
        
         | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
         | I spent 4 years stationed at Camp Hansen, Okinawa and I'm not
         | sure that represents the majority of Okinawans. Anecdotally,
         | the rare protest was extremely tiny, like less than 20 people,
         | and I've never had a negative interaction. I often yearn to
         | return because the place was so lovely and friendly.
        
           | resoluteteeth wrote:
           | > I spent 4 years stationed at Camp Hansen, Okinawa and I'm
           | not sure that represents the majority of Okinawans.
           | Anecdotally, the rare protest was extremely tiny, like less
           | than 20 people, and I've never had a negative interaction. I
           | often yearn to return because the place was so lovely and
           | friendly.
           | 
           | Huh? You're concluding that the vote was not representative
           | because you didn't see a lot of protestors and Okinawans are
           | friendly?
        
           | dontbenebby wrote:
           | >I spent 4 years stationed at Camp Hansen, Okinawa and I'm
           | not sure that represents the majority of Okinawans.
           | 
           | Were you allowed to leave the base or did you overlap with
           | the period they raped too many people and were not allowed to
           | leave after certain hours?
           | 
           | (I had someone think they could fight me and I'd have no
           | recourse because I was a bald American when I visited, then
           | rapidly make friends when I said hey, I don't like those
           | jerks either, this isn't Saudi Arabia, let them sit in a
           | Japanese prison for two weeks then be put on trial if they
           | abuse the locals.)
           | 
           | Maybe you should listen when people repeatedly state a
           | boundary.
           | 
           | (And I'm not saying you, personally, are a rapist... just
           | that a small number of people are, combined with coworkers
           | who excuse that behavior by refusing to deal with the pattern
           | of behavior paired with refusing to honor the wishes of the
           | democracy hosting their base.)
        
             | subradios wrote:
             | That was a response of the commands in Okinawa, not an ask
             | from the Japanese government.
             | 
             | Much of the activism against Okinawa gets overruled at the
             | national level by a Japanese government that wants the
             | United States presence, and this is problematic,because
             | Okinawa is much, much poorer than the rest of the country.
        
               | dontbenebby wrote:
               | >That was a response of the commands in Okinawa, not an
               | ask from the Japanese government. Much of the activism
               | against Okinawa gets overruled at the national level by a
               | Japanese government that wants the United States presence
               | 
               | Why does this small set of people _want_ them there? I
               | thought much of this was leftover from WWII -- but for
               | whatever reason the Germans atoned and were given
               | autonomy and the Japanese kept being weird about their
               | war crimes and thus had some kind of constitutional
               | obligation to only maintain a  "self defense force"?
               | 
               | That's not the same as "wanting" an ally around the way
               | folks up in Ontario might not mind if the PA national
               | guard is willing to help out if the Russians start
               | fucking around.
               | 
               | >Okinawa is much, much poorer than the rest of the
               | country.
               | 
               | Maybe because they suffer discrimination in employment on
               | the main island?
               | 
               | (That's what I was told happens, by multiple highly
               | educated people who frankly had more skill than me in
               | their respective fields compared to myself at their age.)
        
           | tasuki wrote:
           | > I'm not sure that represents the majority of Okinawans.
           | 
           | Are you suggesting that the poll was rigged?
           | 
           | According to Wikipedia, 434k opposed, 115k supported, and
           | 548k eligible voters haven't participated. Unless the poll
           | was rigged, it's _technically possible_ but highly unlikely
           | that the majority of Okinawans actually supported building
           | the US base at Henoko.
        
       | dontbenebby wrote:
       | I've been to Okinawa, they have legitimate complaints about a
       | variety of behaviors emanating from the base.
       | 
       | Sadly, those complaints are often selectively boosted when it
       | benefits others, rather than out of sincere concern for fellow
       | man.
       | 
       | (Sorry I walked into your booth and bummed a cigarette, if you
       | can read this. That was rude.)
       | 
       | PS: The site was failing to load, so I am including a Wayback
       | link in case anyone else encounters a similar issue:
       | 
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20221202225620/https://www.milit...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | What I find most disturbing is not the mistakes we make as
       | humans, but the mental gymnastics we use to avoid actually
       | dealing with problems.
       | 
       | An article posted yesterday on the "Impotence of cleverness" (by
       | Alexander Stern: I was very impressed by it) got me thinking
       | about the curse intelligence really is. Many smart people I know
       | are masters of self-deception, rationalisation, avoidance,
       | whataboutism, oh-dearism...
       | 
       | For each shameful act and horror we have quick clever answers, by
       | appeal to "reasons"; process, policy, necessity, authority,
       | security, tradition... and we use those to construct a tolerance
       | of misbehaviour. We feel prouder of that tolerance, - a shield
       | against hopelessness - and our ability to explain-away problems,
       | than of our willingness to challenge them. If only people could
       | apply this intellectual force to radical scepticism and
       | freethinking needed to break out of destructive cycles.
        
       | peoplefromibiza wrote:
       | same here in Italy, especially in Sardinia
        
         | dontbenebby wrote:
         | Which base is near Sardinia?
         | 
         | (I believe you, I just want to read more.)
        
           | JZM8yKnRvGv wrote:
           | La Maddalena.
        
             | dontbenebby wrote:
             | Thanks, I'll look into it, but my member of Congress is
             | useless, so forgive me if I don't send them an email based
             | on what I find :-)
             | 
             | Edit: I only found the island so far -- looks like they
             | didn't renew the lease? That's on stripes, not Wikipedia,
             | which only has an entry for the local area and says:
             | 
             | >In 1943, during World War II, Benito Mussolini was briefly
             | held prisoner here.
             | 
             | What a wonderful piece of history, you're so blessed to
             | live in a place that did such wonderful things -- sorry the
             | US military may have literally shit it up. (For lack of
             | better phrasing.)
             | 
             | [1] https://www.stripes.com/news/la-maddalena-says-goodbye-
             | to-ba...
        
       | DoreenMichele wrote:
       | _Medical science has not figured out a way to rid these chemicals
       | from our bodies... They can install municipal and private water
       | filters. They can stop using nonstick pans and they can rid their
       | homes of consumer items that contain the chemicals._
       | 
       | From: https://www.epa.gov/pfas/meaningful-and-achievable-steps-
       | you...
       | 
       |  _If possible, consider using an alternate water source for
       | drinking, preparing food, cooking, brushing teeth, preparing baby
       | formula, and any other activity when your family might swallow
       | water. Consider installing an in-home water treatment (e.g.,
       | filters) that are certified to lower the levels of PFAS in your
       | water._
       | 
       | We've poisoned our entire planet. These things are everywhere,
       | which is in no way intended to minimize or dismiss the complaints
       | of people in Okinawa. But there is no one who shouldn't be
       | wondering how to reduce their exposure to these persistent
       | chemicals known to negatively impact health and which current
       | medical science doesn't know how to get out of us once they get
       | into us.
        
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