[HN Gopher] I've asked Stable Diffusion to generate 250 pages of...
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       I've asked Stable Diffusion to generate 250 pages of 1987
       RadioShack catalog
        
       Author : CharlesW
       Score  : 231 points
       Date   : 2022-12-01 19:26 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
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 (TXT) w3m dump (tilde.zone)
        
       | zwkrt wrote:
       | Baudrillard's visison of the hyperreal is becoming overwhelmingly
       | true and at an exponential rate. I envision that soon we won't
       | even need historical documents because we can just auto-generate
       | documents based on historical data. Which will then become the
       | new historical documents, in a process that keeps folding in on
       | itself until the bubble our immediate reality shrinks and shrinks
       | until there is only the smallest part of the inner ear vaguely
       | recalling that gravity is acting upon us, while the rest of our
       | senses and thoughts are wrapped in the warm blanket of an auto-
       | generated fugue.
        
         | tablespoon wrote:
         | > I envision that soon we won't even need historical documents
         | because we can just auto-generate documents based on historical
         | data.
         | 
         | A.K.A. forgeries.
        
         | theandrewbailey wrote:
         | The term "historical documents" gives me strong Galaxy Quest
         | vibes. Someday, maybe we can generate the TV show that it was
         | based on.
        
         | basch wrote:
         | When I think about procedurally generated entertainment, that
         | can be materialized on demand, I find my self thinking about
         | the movie Strange Days.
         | 
         | Will the future be one of societal fragmentation where 1)
         | nobody ever rewatches anything, they just generate more new
         | stuff 2) nobody watches each others work ("hey watch my feed I
         | just generated, it was awesome" followed by "yeah sure,
         | someday") and just watches more new custom stuff generated for
         | them which just becomes 3) everybody is watching an endless
         | feed of new procedurally generated levels like endless runner
         | games and 4) there is no longer any shared experience between
         | people that they can realistically use as a foundation to
         | communicate or interact.
         | 
         | OR will the future be MOSTLY the previous but with a
         | counterculture market for vintage (and modern) "authentic
         | experiences" some of which will be black market. And then as
         | part of that counterculture demand, how much of the "authentic
         | experience" content be counterfeit procedurally generated to
         | look real. And then the act of consuming counterfeit "authentic
         | experiences" en mass just becomes a role play archeology
         | treasure hunting game.
        
           | OscarCunningham wrote:
           | But at the moment, people watch new TV shows when they come
           | out, rather than watching old shows which are just as good. I
           | think it's because they enjoy watching the same thing as
           | other people.
        
             | unixhero wrote:
             | I still do rewatch X-Files, Star Trek TNG, Seinfeld and
             | Stargate SG-1.
             | 
             | I uh, want to believe.
        
               | basch wrote:
               | Would you if there were endless new episodes? Or upon
               | rewatch that they could change slightly?
               | 
               | What about your kids kids? Would they look back on older
               | generations who are watching non procedurally generated
               | content that never changes as weirdos?
        
             | layer8 wrote:
             | That's true, but it's also because of marketing. At least
             | streaming services also list "related" productions that are
             | older.
        
         | tomjen3 wrote:
         | Lots of Historical documents are, eh, less historical than
         | might appear.
        
         | dpflan wrote:
         | "[A]uto-generated fugue" is a superb phrase for this situation.
        
         | dejj wrote:
         | Xerox did it in 2013, changing 6s into 8s in scanned documents:
         | https://www.dkriesel.com/blog/2013/0802_xerox-workcentres_ar...
        
         | JasonFruit wrote:
         | We can also, you know, just decide we won't do that.
        
           | replygirl wrote:
           | as individuals we have enough trouble asserting will over
           | impulse as it is--hard to imagine us collectively deciding on
           | anything like this when institutions are even more vulnerable
           | to reactivity
        
           | dinkleberg wrote:
           | But will we? Those of us who have been alive long enough to
           | know what life was like before any of this may choose not to.
           | But our youngest generation, and those to come, may grow up
           | not knowing any different.
           | 
           | Not suggesting it will happen, but it is an unappealing
           | thought.
        
             | dwringer wrote:
             | If anything, I think technology like this has gradually
             | empowered people to rise above the autogenerated fugue that
             | has historically always been a part of everyday life
             | (though historically the human mind did a pretty good job
             | generating that on its own thanks to widespread ignorance,
             | superstition, and fear). Speaking personally, I find AI
             | chatbots and image generators _when I 'm using them myself_
             | to be like a refreshing drink of cool fresh water compared
             | with the sensation of being only drip fed or waterboarded
             | by businesses wielding the technology to influence my
             | behavior without my explicit input or full consent.
        
             | idontpost wrote:
        
           | gaterin wrote:
           | That sounds like the view of an anti-progress luddite. Be
           | careful where you make such statements.
        
           | vjk800 wrote:
           | There is no mechanism in existence to collectively decide
           | anything. It's why things suck in general.
        
             | ltbarcly3 wrote:
             | There are many mechanisms to collectively decide things, so
             | you aren't even close about that (Democracy, the market,
             | representative government at every level, the United
             | Nations, proxy votes for corporations, school boards,
             | boards of governors, juries, HOAs, ballot initiatives and
             | referendums, elections generally, zoning commissions,
             | family meetings, 4 friends debating where to get dinner,
             | really far too many to list here, if anything almost all
             | decisions of any importance are made via some mechanism to
             | collectively decide things).
             | 
             | There isn't a way to collectively decide things with
             | absolute authority, but that is why things don't suck
             | _worse_ in general. If we make collective decisions we
             | could force people to do some things which are more optimal
             | to our goals. However, that assumes that we universally
             | agree on what the goals are (not even close) and that the
             | decisions won 't actually be worse for the chosen goals
             | (sometimes they will be far worse) and that the decision
             | making process will never be irreversibly hijacked by some
             | group for their own benefit (it absolutely will be). So you
             | are not just wrong about this, your premise is incorrect
             | and your conclusion does not follow from that premise even
             | if it were.
        
       | hungrygs wrote:
       | I worked at a Radio Shack in 1986-87, sort of a dream job for 18
       | years old. Now I know what it would have looked like if I showed
       | up for work one day on LSD!
        
       | kle wrote:
       | If you like this you will enjoy "an improbable future" on
       | instagram: https://instagram.com/an_improbable_future
        
         | shubhamverma wrote:
         | I have been following this account and enjoying all their posts
         | of amazing product designs - and I didn't even realise until I
         | read this comment that it's AI -generated!
        
       | pupppet wrote:
       | I miss getting these catalogs! Someone should send out a weekly
       | newsletter of random interesting gadgets linked to online stores
       | where you can buy them, with a layout that perfectly mimics these
       | old catalogs. I'd eat that up.
        
       | bmitc wrote:
       | Why is this stuff interesting to people?
       | 
       | You could write an algorithm that does image recognition and cut
       | and paste from a plethora of image resources and build a similar
       | catalog of actual products from a given time period.
       | 
       | This just looks like the typical machine learning throw up of
       | dumping a bunch of statistically averaged and collaged images
       | that's then been blurred as if someone ran their finger across
       | the image and random text. It isn't clear to me where the
       | intrigue is aside from a "hmph, I guess (?) that's cool".
        
         | lm28469 wrote:
         | > Why is this stuff interesting to people?
         | 
         | Because by typing three words and clicking two buttons you get
         | to claim you're an artist and your ticket for the future at the
         | same time
         | 
         | It's one more step in the general dumbing down of everything
         | tech touches. You don't need skills, you don't need to devote
         | time it, you don't even need to understand how it works, just
         | go on a website, give them your money, write something and boom
         | you're done
         | 
         | I think being stuck in a content consumption cycle for a while
         | made people slowly realise that creation is much more
         | fulfilling than consumption, these things give them the
         | illusion of creating things
        
         | sideshowb wrote:
         | > typical machine learning throw up of dumping a bunch of
         | statistically averaged and collaged images
         | 
         | On the scale of my lifetime, that's a fairly new phenomenon
        
         | dwringer wrote:
         | I think it's just a common sort of _ex nihilo_ first steps
         | example of the technology that 's easy to show off to anyone,
         | and it's a good example of how the results can be iterated and
         | cherry-picked to filter out the most garbage-laden images to
         | get stuff that's basically (what another commentor called)
         | "visual lorem ipsum".
         | 
         | There's a _lot_ more that stable diffusion can do when there is
         | a feedback loop between the user and the computer, but I don 't
         | think it's very easy to convey with pop articles or even long
         | form ones - I hope one day everyone has a chance to approach
         | models like this and learn from them in their own way, and I
         | appreciate articles like this in their attempt to get a wider
         | audience interested in the technology.
        
           | bmitc wrote:
           | That's a well balanced perspective. And I don't mean to be a
           | Luddite or anything, but I just don't think I see what this
           | will be useful for outside of the typical advertising and
           | abusive use cases.
           | 
           | One use case I can currently imagine, outside of advertising,
           | is _maybe_ storyboarding, because you don't really care much
           | about fidelity or even style there, and it's primarily a
           | scaffolding tool. However, I'm not terribly sure of the
           | feedback loop being anywhere near that of a director or
           | cinematographer or writer sitting down with a storyboard
           | artist. But maybe you don't have access to a storyboard
           | artist.
           | 
           | There is a valid position of asking "why do we need this?",
           | and I don't think it gets asked enough in technology. One
           | thing I am sure of is that this type of machine learning art
           | will be abused.
           | 
           | There is an unfortunate inevitability though with humans and
           | technology.
        
             | YurgenJurgensen wrote:
             | I don't understand the motivation of the person who sees 60
             | hours of video uploaded to YouTube per second, 30+ new
             | video games released on Steam per day, 100,000 songs
             | uploaded to Spotify every day and 6,000 Tweets being made
             | per second, and decides "You know what the World needs? A
             | way of enabling more people to make more content faster."
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | > You could write an algorithm that does image recognition and
         | cut and paste from a plethora of image resources and build a
         | similar catalog of actual products from a given time period.
         | 
         | And if you did that I would think it was super interesting and
         | cool too.
        
         | zoover2020 wrote:
         | You must be fun at parties
        
           | dang wrote:
           | " _Edit out swipes._ "
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
           | 
           | Corollary: If editing out swipes results in an empty comment,
           | the comment should probably not be posted.
        
       | ploum wrote:
       | Side note : it's nice to see that Mastodon reached the point
       | where you could point at it for stuff completely unrelated to
       | Mastodon. Good job HN!
        
         | snowwrestler wrote:
         | It's funny though, one consequence of the federation is that
         | the domain name on the link gives you no clue you're going to
         | see Mastodon when you click it. (Unlike centralized services
         | like Twitter or Facebook.)
         | 
         | If you wanted to see all the Mastodon links posted to HN, you'd
         | have to either start with a list of all known Mastodon server
         | domains and search those, or scrape all the links and pick out
         | the ones that land on a Mastodon instance.
        
       | JKCalhoun wrote:
       | Stable Diffusion trying to sell me batteries.
        
       | jgalt212 wrote:
       | It's sort of neat, but for me, the longer you look at this images
       | are they really different from visual lorem ipsum?
        
       | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
       | OK but... what's happening here is SD is capturing textures and
       | some of their relationships. It clearly has no understanding of
       | the objects it's generating.
       | 
       | So the output is a kind of Dali-esque mushed up melted version of
       | the original content.
       | 
       | It's entertaining because it's simultaneously referential and
       | heavily distorted in unexpected ways.
       | 
       | You could use this a manual art technique, and it would be
       | interesting-ish.
       | 
       | I'm curious if it's capable of getting to the next stage, of
       | understanding and distorting the actual design relationships in
       | these objects to the point where it could deepfake catalog pages
       | and they'd be indistinguishable from the real thing.
       | 
       | I suspect there's quite a gap between that stage and this one.
        
         | notahacker wrote:
         | Feels like you'd make more progress with discrete models
         | working together. At the very simple level, Stable Diffusion is
         | pretty terrible at words and fonts but a reasonable model of
         | where [patterns of pixels that look like] text might fit, and
         | how big should it be. Add a second step which recognises
         | Stable-Diffusion generated pseudotext blocks and replaces them
         | with GPT-generated text to the same prompt set in an actual
         | font scaled to match StableDiffusion's attempted font and
         | you'll more likely get something that passes the "zoom in and
         | try to read it" test. Though there may not be very much
         | correspondence between the images and text.
         | 
         | A more complex arrangement adds in a model which chooses which
         | does high level structure to fit a prompt (subprompts on
         | suitable topics for images and text for each page), a 'house
         | style' model to pick fonts and copy/paste stuff like the
         | RadioShack logo direct from its source material, plain old
         | StableDiffusion to draw lots of individual pictures "cassette
         | player deluxe RadioShack 1970" and plain old GPT to write the
         | text which is typeset to the 'house style' model's
         | specification, and probably an "observer" model that forces new
         | iterations of really bad pages.
         | 
         | Great thing about this magazine creation process is it also
         | tends to work better for humans than having one person do
         | everything!
        
           | uoaei wrote:
           | The analogy in my mind is the heyday of x86 ubiquity vs the
           | coming revolution of many SoCs in one device.
           | 
           | Huge, all-purpose, massive-capacity NNs are the norm for the
           | current advances in SOTA. This is probably because of a
           | certain limit on development complexity: designing a complex
           | system of richly interacting parts is hard, so as long as
           | development of these sorts of tools is manual, it will be
           | much easier just to shove more compute at the problem with
           | singular, massive models. Compare this to the all-
           | encompassing architecture hegemony of x86. This makes it
           | relatively easy to write software that people will be able to
           | use on devices they already own, and this reduction in
           | developer effort and complexity is enormous for enabling
           | rapid growth in the number of possible software programs that
           | can be created per unit time.
           | 
           | As ML design becomes more automated and functional, new
           | possibilities open up regarding breaking out sub-tasks to
           | individual, hyper-specialized tools and combining them into a
           | resilient and capable whole that is more than the sum of its
           | parts. That is the true power of automatic differentiation
           | frameworks: when your system can be end-to-end differentiable
           | throughout many devices and specialized functions, and you
           | can train parts as easily as you can train the whole, you
           | begin to observe the creation -- the growth, really -- of a
           | new kind of digital cognition machine.
        
       | recursivedoubts wrote:
       | if only you knew how good things really weren't
        
       | dpflan wrote:
       | This is what I'm talking about, amazing work! Generative AI can
       | unleash infinite un-realities -- shared reality it at drastic
       | risk of being lost even more.
        
       | wolpoli wrote:
       | I like how Stable Diffusion generated a SanDisk looking logo - a
       | company that was found, according to Wikipedia, in 1988.
        
         | bmitc wrote:
         | I mean, surely the SanDisk logo was in the data set. It didn't
         | generate it as much as it convoluted the original logo.
        
       | givinguflac wrote:
       | I use stable diffusion almost daily and this is a really creative
       | use! I have leaned into the weird text that comes with these
       | types of prompts and I love it.
        
       | imranq wrote:
       | Its so interesting seeing how these txt2img models represent
       | text. Its sort of like how someone who doesn't know how to read
       | might represent language, as shapes instead of characters and
       | words.
       | 
       | That said, it would be a fun experiment to try an img2txt model
       | on these individual catalog items to find out what they actually
       | do (or image search)
        
       | beefman wrote:
       | So this is why I can't read in my dreams...
        
       | johnwheeler wrote:
       | Abstract amalgamation of machines. I think one reason these are
       | so magical is it feels like they're doing something our brains do
       | when they dream.
        
       | RandomWorker wrote:
       | General mastodon question here, I click login but I can login
       | with my credentials because I'm on mastodon.social. How do I
       | login from this interface to comment in this thread or is this
       | not possible?
        
         | rjmunro wrote:
         | Paste the URL into the search box on your mastodon instance.
         | It's a bit ugly, but it works.
        
       | dougmwne wrote:
       | If the computer was a bicycle for the mind then Stable Diffusion
       | is LSD for the computer.
       | 
       | Who cares how theoretically soulless it is under the matrix
       | transforms, the fact is that this spits out the weird, and us
       | humans chew it up and spit it right back.
       | 
       | I think this is the first new era in Art since postmodernism.
        
         | basch wrote:
         | How long until what is currently photography is either full
         | length video or 3d navigable worlds?
         | 
         | These Star Wars galleries are just phenomenal. I can't imagine
         | it is long until you can apply these as filters to movies, for
         | example taking Rogue One and applying a Fritz Lang or Stanley
         | Kubrick filter.
         | 
         | https://www.facebook.com/groups/395755276049376/?multi_perma...
         | 
         | https://www.facebook.com/groups/395755276049376/?multi_perma...
         | 
         | If I took that galleries above and used it as the input photos,
         | and then used a tool like this, which takes about 5 seconds a
         | frame .. https://gizmodo.com/disney-ai-art-vfx-visual-effects-
         | de-age-...
         | 
         | Or akin to Cars being a remake of Doc Hollywood with
         | anthropomorphized Cars, being able to say something like "I
         | want to see a remake of the 2013 movie Rush, in the world of
         | Zootopia, with 15% styling from Speed Racker, set in the 70's,
         | with flying animals, and the main two rival protagonists being
         | flying squirrels, one of which has a birth defect and a
         | prosthetic wing."
        
           | jeremyjh wrote:
           | Kubrick's version was better than the studio release.
        
           | WrtCdEvrydy wrote:
           | > for example taking Rogue One and applying a Fritz Lang or
           | Stanley Kubrick filter.
           | 
           | I mean, what's to stop someone from doing that using a basic
           | ass LUT?
        
             | basch wrote:
             | Do you mean just color, or redrawing the costumes and sets
             | and special effects to match aesthetics? In 3D space, and
             | consistently from scene to scene?
        
         | bhaney wrote:
         | So using Stable Diffusion is like giving LSD to your bicycle?
        
           | dpflan wrote:
           | Seems like a good prompt to try...
        
             | donkeyd wrote:
             | I tried, the results were pretty much what you'd expect:
             | https://imgur.com/a/5F4AS2D
        
           | Yahivin wrote:
           | Yes.
        
           | alex_young wrote:
           | So, bicycle day? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_l
           | ysergic_acid_die...
        
         | GuB-42 wrote:
         | The think that I find the most LSD-like, both in the visuals it
         | generate and in principle is Google DeepDream.
         | 
         | It works by using an image classifier in reverse. So for
         | example, you have a neural network that identifies bicycles,
         | feed it an image, get the results, and feed them back to the
         | image, boosting the bicycle-like characteristics of the image,
         | repeat the process a number of times. In the end, you get
         | something that looks like the original image, but made of
         | bicycle parts. It is commonly done with faces, it can also be
         | done on intermediate layers, amplifying more abstract details
         | like geometric shapes.
         | 
         | Originally intended as a way to reveal the inner workings of a
         | neural network (for research, debugging, etc...), it has also
         | been used by artists for really trippy visuals.
        
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       (page generated 2022-12-01 23:01 UTC)