[HN Gopher] EU climate plan sacrifices carbon storage and biodiv...
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EU climate plan sacrifices carbon storage and biodiversity for
bioenergy
Author : Brajeshwar
Score : 61 points
Date : 2022-11-30 15:36 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nature.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nature.com)
| olivermarks wrote:
| 'Planet of the humans' made trenchant points on three issues
|
| 1. The global population is exploding in size and the main cause
| of environmental anxieties
| https://www.statista.com/statistics/1006502/global-populatio...
|
| 'From 2017 to 2050, it is expected that half of the world's
| population growth will be concentrated in just nine countries:
| India, Nigeria, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Pakistan,
| Ethiopia, the United Republic of Tanzania, the United States of
| America, Uganda and Indonesia (ordered by their expected
| contribution to total growth)'. https://www.un.org/en/desa/world-
| population-projected-reach-...
|
| 2. Sierra club and other environmental 'non profits' are
| condoning the burning of astonishing amounts of wood at the altar
| of electricity worship for questionable reasons, despite their
| mission being to save forests
|
| 3. The EU appear to have abandoned any sort of strategic
| foresight, betting the farm on unproven and unreliable wind and
| solar power claims while shutting off energy to the people they
| serve in the middle of winter, while simultaneously destroying
| the ability to travel with punitive restrictions on personally
| owned vehicles. Absolute madness.
|
| The Caliban on the US west coast are the EU's twin organization.
|
| ____________________________
|
| https://youtu.be/Zk11vI-7czE
|
| Michael Moore presents Planet of the Humans, a documentary that
| dares to say what no one else will -- that we are losing the
| battle to stop climate change on planet earth _because we are
| following leaders who have taken us down the wrong road --
| selling out the green movement to wealthy interests and corporate
| America_. This film is the wake-up call to the reality we are
| afraid to face: that in the midst of a human-caused extinction
| event, the environmental movement's answer is to push for techno-
| fixes and band-aids. It 's too little, too late.
| surge wrote:
| Then we all die, the end, might as well kill ourselves now.
| compiskey wrote:
| People will either intentionally sacrifice to slow climate
| change or destroy itself.
|
| Neoliberal society will come to an end one way or another.
| olivermarks wrote:
| Half the world's population growth will be concentrated in
| just nine countries: India, Nigeria, the Democratic Republic
| of the Congo, Pakistan, Ethiopia, the United Republic of
| Tanzania, the United States of America, Uganda and Indonesia
| (ordered by their expected contribution to total growth). Not
| many of those countries have any interest in 'intentionally
| sacrificing to slow climate change'. They are mostly being
| exploited by rapacious 'green' capitalists for rare earth
| minerals etc as their populations explode..
|
| Eight countries will make up over half the projected total
| population increase by 2050: India, Nigeria, Pakistan, the
| Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Tanzania, the
| Philippines and Egypt.
|
| India is expected to overtake China as the world's most
| populous country next year (2023), when China's population is
| expected to start declining.
|
| (Source: United Nations Population Fund, 2022)
|
| These places are ground zero for environmental concerns imo
| AlgerianSam wrote:
| You're wrong : the carbon footprint of a Pakistanese,
| Indian or Nigerian person is in order of 2 tons per year.
|
| The carbon footprint of a US person is in order of 20 tons,
| EU countries are around 8-10 tons.
|
| So I'd say that the problem lies with OECD countries, no
| the others.
| surge wrote:
| Meanwhile, companies require us to come into work,
| commute hours, burn fossil fuels, etc.
|
| Companies and governments talk out one side of their
| mouth about being green and carbon neutral, then tell
| people they need to burn fossil fuels to come to work, by
| unaffordable electric cars to be around people you don't
| work with in expensive to live city centers that they
| don't pay enough to live in, much less have a family of
| one or two children, and nuclear is bad.
|
| I've stopped listening, because it's pointless, all I see
| is highway construction to add more lanes rather than
| making viable public transportation. If they really
| believed any of it they'd be doing something about it. I
| do my little bit, but having this insane nihilistic
| anxiety about it is far worse.
| olivermarks wrote:
| Pakistan and India have enormous amounts of heavy
| industries, Nigeria massive extraction. 'Carbon
| footprint' per person is somewhat irrelevant in this
| heavily industrialized context. Globalization has shifted
| unpleasant, grimmy polluting activities to these types of
| countries, while people sanctimoniously push mice around
| in the first world...
| manzu wrote:
| typical EU playbook: outlaw it here, make headlines, outsource it
| en gross without caring about "internal" rules. we hold
| corporations like apple responsible for following rules across
| the supply chain, maybe it's time we check the supply chain of
| the EU and US also - we subsidize electric cars built in China
| with local money while Chinese plants do not meet environmental
| standards. One planet.
| varispeed wrote:
| > we hold corporations like apple responsible for following
| rules across the supply chain
|
| Do we? As far as I know they still make stuff in China.
| ben_w wrote:
| Is the EU party to the US trade war with China?
| TheLoafOfBread wrote:
| I have strong feeling that whole Green Deal will end up like
| biofuels fiasco - after lot of cheering, slowly forgotten and
| mostly scrapped.
| boringg wrote:
| Disagree - there will be some winners and some losers for sure.
| However there will be a lot of good that comes out of it. There
| was a lot of good that came out of the ARRA grants that the US
| government used same should come out of this funding as long as
| we don't end up subsidizing poor technologies such as ethanol &
| hydrogen that is not carbon neutral.
| varispeed wrote:
| But certain people will make billions and then move on another
| scheme. Rinse and repeat.
|
| If you own the media you can do anything.
| bitwize wrote:
| An effective Green New Deal would involve powerdown of
| technological civilization and, more than likely, a reduction
| in human population.
|
| I'm not surprised at all that our race is trying to wriggle out
| of paying its fucking dues. One way or another they will be
| paid, it's just that the longer we wait, the more interest
| accrues...
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| I'm sensitive to the tone, since there's still so many climate
| change deniers about, but overall makes sense once they get to
| the point:
|
| > The best solution is to incorporate the 'carbon opportunity
| cost' of land use into the accounting of emissions from bioenergy
| in all climate and energy laws. This cost can be measured simply
| as the carbon that could otherwise be stored by regrowing native
| vegetation. A superior approach would use carbon opportunity
| costs, as we have done here, to calculate the average carbon cost
| to reproduce the same food elsewhere. This approach does not
| require a switch to consumption-based accounting but recognizes
| that land use has an opportunity cost, which should be factored
| into the life-cycle analyses of bioenergy used by the EU.
| [deleted]
| xracy wrote:
| Given that we're bad at carbon storage, this seems reasonable...
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Relevant discussion points:
|
| - European Green Deal _was_ watered down after Exxon met with EU
| comissioners, specifically to prolong transport related
| emissions. They will likely get what they asked for. [0]
|
| - Biomass is _not_ carbon neutral in any practical sense The
| payback time for carbon debt ranges from 44-104 years after
| clearcut, depending on forest type and assuming the land remains
| forest. Despite all the media spin this is just too long when we
| are dealing with a climate emergency with several positive
| feedback loops.[1]
|
| [0]
| https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/06/exxonmobil-...
|
| [1] DOI: 10.1088/1748-9326/aaa512
| ispo wrote:
| As former ambassador of European climate policies, I felt
| appalled every few months while my job lasted. A seemingly
| insoluble problem us that for a long time all they do outsources
| problems via trade leading to land systems change---
| deforestation.
|
| The carbon storage point made in the article is not valid for
| some countries in the EU, as they have more forest now that
| decades ago, and too much wildfire risk setting higher
| priorities.
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