[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Do you look angry while you work?
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Ask HN: Do you look angry while you work?
So people have always told me I look angry when I'm focusing, and I
figured "Yeah I look like every other engineer when they're
focusing". Today a friend walked by a cafe where I was working. He
saw me, sent a pic and asked me if everything was OK. I looked
_furious_ , which I don't understand, because I was being super
productive and am a reasonably happy person. Who else looks like
they're going to war, when they're writing code?
Author : thrownoldoutit
Score : 154 points
Date : 2022-11-30 13:25 UTC (9 hours ago)
| onion2k wrote:
| Yes, but only because I _am_ angry.
| zulu-inuoe wrote:
| Ditto.
| chaorace wrote:
| There's no more productive morning than an angry morning. It's
| great fuel for tackling the email backlog... albeit sometimes
| with mixed results.
| groffee wrote:
| That's my secret, Captain
| rewgs wrote:
| *Cap :)
| gorjusborg wrote:
| The secret is that I'm always angry.
| hef19898 wrote:
| Either that, or frustrated. I can realy relate to the Baum guy
| from The Big Short, if I am curious I am not angry and / or
| frustrated.
| SCdF wrote:
| Only when reading hacker news
| gerbilly wrote:
| I do and I also display other strong emotions such as disgust,
| surprise etc.
|
| But I also think that I look angry because I _am_ angry.
|
| Anger allows us to increase arousal and helps us focus on an
| 'obstacle' and programming presents many obstacles.
|
| It's self defeating however, because working in this way is
| exhausting.
|
| In working with a close friend, who programs much more patiently
| and methodically, I'm slowly learning to let go of my 'ADD'
| (Anger Driven Development).
|
| I think I used to consider the slow and steady approach to be
| plodding, and using my intense approach I really could get a lot
| of great work done very fast, but after a few burnouts, I had to
| find another way.
|
| But coding while angry also has another major downside. Anger
| narrows your focus of attention on what you consider to be the
| 'threat' or 'obstacle', and anyone who's done technical work
| knows that the solution is often found by divergent thinking.
|
| Edit: Many people are saying that they only look angry, and that
| they actually aren't angry. This may be 100% true, but the facial
| feedback hypothesis suggests that when you make an angry face,
| your internal state tends towards anger.
| marssaxman wrote:
| > Many people are saying that they only look angry, and that
| they actually aren't angry. This may be 100% true, but the
| facial feedback hypothesis suggests
|
| I used to know someone like that; even when she smiled, her
| eyes seemed to have a pained crinkle around the edges. She
| insisted that she felt fine, that it was just a trick of her
| facial features - but she tended to get aggravated by other
| people so easily that it was hard to believe her. I suspect
| that she was simply accustomed to a baseline feeling of
| irritation and didn't really notice its presence.
|
| (Validating the facial-feedback hypothesis further, I knew
| someone else who got botox treatment for her forehead, so she
| could no longer scowl; this notably improved her mood.)
| bilekas wrote:
| I kind of get this too. Had to change because burnout became a
| real thing. I changed up the music i was listening too. And now
| with more fast tempo techno music for me i find the energy
| levels i want to reach are helped with the music but without
| the fatigue from focusing on the anger too much.
| dkarl wrote:
| > Anger narrows your focus of attention on what you consider to
| be the 'threat' or 'obstacle', and anyone who's done technical
| work knows that the solution is often found by divergent
| thinking.
|
| This is an interesting perspective. For me, anger sometimes
| helps me break out of a patient grind on a poor approach to a
| problem so I can consider more radical, divergent approaches.
|
| For example, week before last, I did a refactoring that
| affected a few dozen lines of production code, felt good about
| the change, then ran the complete test suite and discovered
| hundreds of lines of test code that I had to fix, across dozens
| of files, because of fixture code that was copy-pasted between
| files instead of shared as well as rampant use of unnecessary
| mocks. My patient, responsible side started making the fixes
| one by one and scolding myself for feeling angry about it,
| telling myself we're all learning, etc., and this is part of
| working with less experienced programmers. I guess I'm at a
| point in my programming journey where for a while now I've been
| suppressing my elitist tendencies and conditioning myself to
| accept that it will be my teammates' level, not mine, that
| dictates the quality of code that we produce, and internally
| chiding myself for even thinking of it as "shitty code." But
| this time I snapped. I was too disgusted by what I was doing. I
| had such a strong "fuck this" reaction that I stopped making
| the fixes and left my office fuming. I came back an hour later
| and started consolidating fixtures and rewriting tests. It took
| me almost a week of unplanned work, but it made me so happy to
| just fucking kill that shitty code instead of making myself
| patiently, dutifully deal with it.
|
| I think it was the right thing to do from a team leadership
| perspective as well. My teammates were surprised at what I was
| able to do, and now they can see a better way to write tests.
| We probably won't get that full 4-5 days of effort back in the
| specific part of the code I was working on, but I am optimistic
| that future code my team produces will look more like the
| cleaned up version than the original mess, and the effort will
| be paid back that way.
| ultim8k wrote:
| Same when I play videogames.
| volleygman180 wrote:
| Agreed. It's probably the worst when I'm playing Super Smash
| Bros.
| Tade0 wrote:
| I stick my tongue out to the side like a cartoon character.
|
| I always thought this was just some sort of trope and not a real
| thing, but then one time my monitor went blank suddenly and I saw
| myself.
| drivers99 wrote:
| https://youtu.be/GXTaDykmAV4
|
| Sticking out your tongue reduces the need for your brain to
| manage it, freeing up resources for what you're concentrating
| on.
| Bilal_io wrote:
| I just pictured a bearded guy (myself) with a tongue out,
| wearing a hat facing a bit more to the right, while leaning
| forward typing on a keyboard. Amusing picture, but unlike me. I
| look angry when in deep thought and focused. And loud when
| excited in discussions you'd think I am yelling.
| Tade0 wrote:
| I'm rocking the Grima Wormtongue/Severus Snape look - hair,
| nose and all.
|
| I guess the words I looking for to describe how I appear are
| "vaguely creepy".
| cuttysnark wrote:
| If I were angry whilst at the cafe, and received a photo of
| myself, looking angry--I'm pretty sure that'd make it worse. An
| unusual way to show concern, but I guess that's the age we live
| in.
|
| edit: misplaced modifier
| benjaminwootton wrote:
| I have the most terrible frown when I'm concentrating. Not great
| for the wrinkles.
| rikkipitt wrote:
| It has been said of me too, on a few occasions! Resting
| concentration face.
| geocrasher wrote:
| Perhaps you've just taken on the George Costanza method of
| looking busy.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
|
| "When you look annoyed _all the time_ , people think that you're
| busy!"
| carvking wrote:
| Yes
| dorkwood wrote:
| A coworker once walked around to my side of the desk to see what
| I was looking at on my screen. It was just some code that I'd
| written. They were surprised, and said it looked like I was
| staring at a picture of something truly disgusting.
| bombcar wrote:
| I mean I don't want to insult your code but I've certainly
| looked at _my code_ and it has been a picture of something
| truly disgusting.
|
| I fear that some of my C code would get me up against The Hague
| for war crimes ...
| wil421 wrote:
| "Who wrote this disgusting monstrosity?" Looks at the commit
| from months earlier and sees my own username...
| asimpleusecase wrote:
| Yes, apparently I am in the Focused/Angry Face cohort. When I am
| reading deeply, or thinking through complex issues I must be
| wearing a scary face as it prompts my wife to ask " are you ok?"
| Which always makes me angry as it breaks my concentration. As far
| as I know, until interrupted I was in a neutral emotional state .
| ergonaught wrote:
| Yes, apparently, according to several people. Doesn't seem to
| occur with some forms of concentration (ex: reading fiction).
| sli wrote:
| If I'm working with other people, usually rest my chin in my hand
| and cover my mouth when I concentrate specifically to signal that
| I'm not angry and can be approached because my eyes often suggest
| otherwise. It's not really a conscious effort or anything, but it
| certainly changes my expression from "angry" to "furrowed brow."
| [deleted]
| cletus wrote:
| Mandatory Seinfeld reference [1]. Honestly, this is good advice.
| So much of work is actually just perception management. Looking
| annoyed or angry without actually being mean or inconsiderate is
| a bit of a cheat code.
|
| Beyond perception management there's the issue of avoiding
| unnecessary interruptions. It can be hard to define what's
| necesary and what isn't. Rarely does it have anything to do with
| what someone is interrupting you for but instead, it is (once
| again) it's perception management.
|
| There is a context-switching contest that comes from being
| interrupted and it can be hard to get back in the zone. So you
| want to avoid people interrupting you to ask something that would
| quite literally be the first link on a trivial Google search.
|
| [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
| wara23arish wrote:
| I have noticed this since joining a new team this year. There
| is one person on my team who is always annoyed and complaining
| about something but really they just dont get anything done.
| There are various times I had to work with them, and when there
| are no blockers whatsoever they wont do shit.
|
| I would love to be able to say "do something about it" when
| they goes on their rants but american culture is too polite.
| Most of their contributions to team meetings is "docked has
| this new thing that could be helpful" and various other name-
| drops. Idk if the rest of the ppl are fooled or its just a
| thing we put up with.
| sublinear wrote:
| Sounds like you should move over to Docker :p
| wara23arish wrote:
| HA, the latest namedrop was "I attended github universe,
| they're working on a lot of CiCD stuff that can be helpful
| "
|
| I think americans are just high trust society so they're
| not usually skeptical of people. Im skeptical of myself
| much less other ppl :D
| badcppdev wrote:
| I remember working with a team where a new starter had joined
| and although he talked a lot in meetings I wasn't sure what
| he was contributing. I checked the code commits and he had
| committed 2 things in a couple of months.
|
| It wasn't my team so I didn't cause a fuss but from that
| point onwards I made sure that he wasn't on the critical path
| for anything I cared about.
|
| In hindsight the mismanagement on that team probably led to
| the exit 5 years later being $100-200 million lower than it
| could have been. But the company was super stingy with shares
| so I'm not sure it would have been worth my time rocking the
| boat.
|
| In other hindsight I might have realised why I look angry
| while I'm at work.
| nixpulvis wrote:
| Yes, anger fuels my thirst for blood. While I'm hunting down a
| bug or digging into a design decision's history. It's not rage
| (usually), it's more like a mixture of frustration and curiosity.
| Bewildered and tempting. It's almost as if I'm being teased, but
| I know there's actually a good reason, somewhere.
|
| Common lines:
|
| "What the actual fuck!?" "Are you serious!?" _slams both hands on
| keyboard_ "Uuummmmmmmmm..." "Whyyyyyyyy"
|
| Then you lean into the monitor and continue searching.
| teddyh wrote:
| http://www.wastedtalent.ca/comic/long-standing-problem
| hackitup7 wrote:
| I was born with congenital RBF (Resting Bitch Face) and it's been
| a mild inconvenience in my work and relationships. I've actually
| tried to adjust my neutral face as a result just so that I don't
| freak out bystanders when I'm waiting for a bus or looking at a
| restaurant menu.
| beaviskhan wrote:
| Yes, and if you interrupt me to ask me if I'm angry, then I'm
| going to both look like I'm angry and actually be angry. Leave me
| alone, I have work to do! :p
| nunez wrote:
| I don't look angry while I'm programming (unless I'm really
| struggling with a bug) but can get very anti-social and short,
| which has been perceived as me being angry.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| I know I do. It's more or less RBF. I wish people would judge
| less on looks before getting to know you. At least your friend
| asked about it and didn't just assume anything about you. :)
|
| I have this expression when focused on work, playing sports, and
| at music concerts.
| davidy123 wrote:
| I was finishing up some work with my camera on during group
| meeting. Someone had their young child on their lap, and the kid
| asked "Daddy, who's the angry man?"
| neilv wrote:
| "Do you suffer from Bitchy Resting Face"
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XinArKp_6fs
| tiborsaas wrote:
| Although kinda unisex name, the male version is the resting
| murder face. Which sounds about right for certain kinds of bugs
| :)
|
| https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Resting%20Mu...
| neilv wrote:
| I'm male, and I prefer to think of it as my (unisex) bitchy
| resting face. :)
| rg111 wrote:
| My SO of 7 years postponed approaching me for months because she
| thought that I am a generally angry person.
|
| Many other people have reported that I appear "unapproachable"
| when I am working, although the opposite is true. I am one of the
| most friendly, helpful, and jolly person that I know.
| egorfine wrote:
| Yes, absolutely. Have received this feedback multiple times.
|
| My father, who is not a software developer but a white-collar
| worker as well, is the same way.
| fisherjeff wrote:
| Of course I look angry - I work with computers all day
| annoyingnoob wrote:
| I think I have RBF and always look angry.
| jiveturkey wrote:
| Haha! Yes!
|
| But right now I'm smiling! :)
| bena wrote:
| I think people can't differentiate between concentration and
| anger.
| nasir wrote:
| When the eyebrows get closer, the pathways for neurons are
| cleared out and information flows easier. Of course, the
| consequence of that is you look angry.
|
| ok I made it up.
| lucretian wrote:
| oh, like a series of tubes. i've heard of those before.
| kemiller2002 wrote:
| I used to. It was an subconscious reflection of my personal life.
| Things changed, and I changed. It's probably not the same for
| everyone, but that was it for me. Work is much less tiring now.
| rozularen wrote:
| Definitely, a coworker asked me some time ago what I was frowned
| up on only to answer him I was just focused
| barelysapient wrote:
| I had a co-worker call it RBF. Resting Bitch Face.
| savryn wrote:
| You can reprogram all these types of things, just by re-habiting
| them for a week or so.
|
| I didn't want to get deep wrinkles (female vanity) or hold angry
| look (stress headaches/blood flow) because i think that posture
| towards work is damaging and subconsciously enforces notions from
| culture/childhood that doing/learning is "hard" "battle" "tough"
| etc, and
|
| this starts the cascade of physical effects that those states
| would, like "bracing myself", changing breathing patterns to
| shallow and stiff, rigid muscles etc, leaning head forward a
| stupid degree, adrenaline/ anxiety chemicals, harming eyesight
| with needless strain etc.
|
| Also increases procrastination because you've decided everything
| is difficult and risky and dangerous, which your ego wants to
| avoid at all costs.
|
| I reprogrammed myself with thoughts about "childs mind" "how
| would a kid savant see this puzzle" and "what if this is super
| easy???" regardless of evidence haha...just mimicking the face
| and mannerisms and sounds like some form of method acting. Face
| muscles are like a curious zen baby buddha now lol, open and
| relaxed but wide eyed, and I have a set of funny/curious gestures
| too lighten my own mood during long sessions, exaggerated
| hmmmmmmmmm????, "curiouser and curiouser!!!" type stuff I stole
| from movies and happy memes
|
| (and the muscle movements I remapped to ones that aid vanity
| (girls know this as facial yoga lol, work cheekbone muscles etc
| instead of furrowing brow)
|
| beware of differences between home/office tho,
|
| I literally gave myself 'Tourette's' when i reprogrammed myself
| to say a certain thing (OUT! and related easy to say
| exclamations) when upsetting negative/thoughts/memories intruded
| on my mind during a difficult time, and it worked wonderfully to
| dispel thought immediately and stay on task/positive when I'm
| working on work/hobbies at home.
|
| Bad thing is I realized I kept doing it on outside on walks I was
| using to think thru problems, and a few times someone actually
| turned their head when I was talking to myself. Just pretended to
| be on a phone call/blue tooth haha... So I re-mapped the more
| common ones to deep breath exhalation and more subtle "tics" that
| have no social cost in public.
|
| I also use the "talking to self out loud" for heavy stuff that
| only comes up sometimes. If you're working thru mental baggage,
| you can literally say stuff like "get out of my head ghost of
| shitty father" when you catch yourself ruminating on the past or
| feeling criticized or becoming like a bad parent etc. This
| "externalizing" is really effective for me. I also renamed
| certain recurrent baggage, such as calling father issues "Iago"
| as short hand (evil Shakespeare ref), or memories of harmless yet
| cringey stuff I map as dopey cartoon characters that fail in same
| ways. This really helps me create emotional distance and feel
| more in control, I guess that ultimately depends on how
| imaginative you are.
|
| (I don't have any family history of schizophrenia and never use
| drugs, so I guess I'm not worried about this getting out of hand,
| shrug. And in the privacy of your own home, who cares?)
|
| All these are ways to just keeping your mental landscape clear,
| maybe ten years of meditation would do the same but this suits me
| just fine for now.
|
| I prevent doom scrolling sometimes by saying out loud "nice try
| culture war ya almost got me!" when I feel outrage. Catching your
| own mental reactions becomes easier as you practice the muscle.
|
| In the kingdom of your skull you can think anything you want and
| create your own tools. Life is a state of mind.
|
| I don't know if this helps most or if you need a certain
| temperament. My mindset is somehow both extremely open AND
| extremely judgmental at the same time, so I'm very friendly to
| all woo that may help yet feel zero loyalty to the media
| source/guru that developed it, just steal what works and dip haha
|
| More 'rational' folks I've tried to share with are allergic to
| this mental-DIY stuff, yet casually harp on about potentials of
| nootropics or amphetamines or shrooms, eyeroll...
|
| I require no evidence to try anything that has essentially no
| harms / costs / cults and just take the good, cut out the bad,
| and tailor it to myself -\\_(tsu)_/-
| hsn915 wrote:
| If your brain is not operating in the same mode used for hunting
| animals, are you even in flow?
| JohnFen wrote:
| Not while working, but I've been told I look like a serial killer
| when driving.
| kps wrote:
| I know I _type_ angry. That noise isn 't the switches, it's just
| me. I added rubber rings but it only helps a little.
| paulmooreparks wrote:
| Yes, absolutely, I do, and not just when writing code. I used to
| work on retail self-service kiosks, and I'd sometimes have to
| work in the hardware lab around the QA engineers, who for some
| reason at this company tended to be very perky, gregarious
| extraverts. They'd see me in there chasing down a bug on one of
| the kiosks, and invariably they'd ask what's wrong or tell me to
| cheer up or ask if maybe I'd heard something about the latest
| round of layoffs.
|
| I do it when I play guitar or piano, too. I've had people ask me
| why I'm angry when I'm playing. My mom did it, too, when she
| played play piano.
|
| I just figure it's because I'm focusing so hard on what I'm doing
| that I stop concentrating on my expression.
| _osorin_ wrote:
| Can relate, even at uni people told me I look unapproachable but
| it's just the concentration face (I want to believe).
| csours wrote:
| Resting Business Face. Yes. You can tell how hard I'm working by
| how hard I'm cursing.
| rodolphoarruda wrote:
| Yes, I do. And I made that my favorite answer to the now famous
| interview question: "What is your biggest flaw?"
|
| I look angry to the point some people may find discomforting to
| work with me. It is their biggest flaw not to know how to handle
| coworkers who look angry like me.
| zzzeek wrote:
| When I was in second grade, which per my timeline, was many years
| before anyone had access to "a computer" outside of a college
| lab, I recall doing some kind of arts and crafts thing, or fixing
| a pen, or something, and I channeled a bit of my dad's energy and
| got very focused on this task. In second grade, it was before
| they shuttled me off to the gifted and talented program with
| other "smart kids" so the other kids sort of looked on me as an
| unusual weirdo, pretty standard stuff, but anyway, this girl that
| was watching me do whatever it was said, "you look angry", and I
| realized that channeling my dad's "let's fix this" energy did
| specifically include some facial contortion that pretty much
| looked like anger.
|
| nowadays I'm very often a flaming angry coder but that's real
| anger. It feels the same as when you get angry to press the fire
| button really fast in a video game, kind of thing. It's been a
| major issue for decades now as if there are any other people
| around, I have to really watch my mannerisms and mumblings
| because there have been negative outcomes from it.
|
| I've also sprinted with other devs who do the same thing. Plus I
| think it occurs in other fields, like my old drum teacher when I
| watch him in videos, when he's going for some dramatic drum
| thing, his face turns to total anger and it is definitely some
| kind of visceral animal thing you tap into when trying to succeed
| in a tight space.
| piva00 wrote:
| > nowadays I'm very often a flaming angry coder but that's real
| anger. It feels the same as when you get angry to press the
| fire button really fast in a video game, kind of thing. It's
| been a major issue for decades now as if there are any other
| people around, I have to really watch my mannerisms and
| mumblings because there have been negative outcomes from it.
|
| I'm the same, I completely control my mannerisms and usual
| expletives when coding near people because... It can get fire-y
| for no reason, I know that it's just work and code but my inner
| monologue needs to vent out each frustration I find. I learned
| that it can appear quite toxic for an outsider, they don't live
| in my head to know that saying "this fucking bullshit shouldn't
| have been done this way" is not a judgment on anyone's
| character or technical abilities, I'm very aware that crappy
| code was done under constraints (skill level, time crunch, so
| on and so forth) but somehow I do need to be angry about it to
| push myself around to fix stuff that doesn't seem right.
|
| It can look aggressive and whiny at the same time and I
| definitely want to avoid people having this impression of me
| because I truly don't care so much, it's just work and I kinda
| gotta do it this way when alone to keep myself in it.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| >Plus I think it occurs in other fields, like my old drum
| teacher when I watch him in videos, when he's going for some
| dramatic drum thing, his face turns to total anger and it is
| definitely some kind of visceral animal thing you tap into when
| trying to succeed in a tight space.
|
| Guitarists facials abound - (and anything you can watch with
| Steve Vai playing will show even more) -
| https://youtu.be/CqdL36VKbMQ
| toomanyrichies wrote:
| I've gotten this feedback from those around me for years. Even
| before I was a coder, when I was an ESL teacher in China, I had
| multiple students approach me (those I had made friends with,
| they were all 20-somethings and over) and ask me if I was OK,
| because I looked angry. I appreciated their concern but I didn't
| feel angry, so I had no clue what they were talking about. It was
| only later that I learned about the concept of a "resting ___
| face", and that I might possess one.
|
| This is a huge reason why I support WFH policies and personally
| take advantage of them. I don't personally feel the need to "fix"
| myself; doing so would involve putting on an artifice in order to
| placate people whose impression of me is founded on incorrect
| assumptions. It would make me feel like I was walking on
| eggshells, and it would take up precious mental bandwidth which
| would be better spent on the work problem at hand.
|
| WFH means management of my facial expression is one less thing I
| have to worry about, since people can only see my Zoom avatar at
| best, and usually only see the section of the laptop screen that
| I'm sharing. Counter to what anti-WFH advocates say, it actually
| makes me _more_ likely to form close bonds with my coworkers,
| since they 're less likely to jump to conclusions about my
| demeanor and personality if they aren't privy to my facial
| expression.
| freedomben wrote:
| That tendency of other humans to jump to conclusions about a
| person's demeanor and personality based on facial expression is
| one of the most irritating characteristics of humans. No matter
| how many times we hear cliche's like "don't judge a book by its
| cover," people routinely (and confidently) do that all the
| time.
| toomanyrichies wrote:
| I agree. I've also come to accept that it's part of human
| nature and, on an evolutionary scale, is probably a net good.
| "Judging a book by its cover" probably saved countless
| cavemen from being eaten by lions, and probably has similar
| effects today.
|
| Nevertheless, your point still stands- it is indeed
| incredibly unfortunate, for the reasons you mentioned.
| dennis_jeeves1 wrote:
| >probably saved countless cavemen from being eaten by lions
|
| Though the laughing hyena found a way to game the system...
| asveikau wrote:
| At the same time I think a lot of people walk around angry at
| the world and unaware of their problem. Or a lot of people
| are depressed and don't realize it. Or any number of issues.
|
| A lot of times it can be all over somebody's face and body
| language.
|
| Self awareness is hard. I used to take selfies to help
| neutrally assess my own mood. A lot of the time I was feeling
| something and unaware, but I could tell from the photo.
| freedomben wrote:
| Yes very true, it's "correct" often enough that it does
| start to build confidence.
|
| I think that's what makes it so frustrating. Especially
| when you know the person well, facial expression can be a
| really good indicator. The main problem IMHO comes in when
| people try to read into facial expressions of people they
| don't know and draw wide conclusions from it. If people
| mainly saw strangers looking unhappy and thought, "oh wow
| that person must be having a bad day" it would probably be
| a net positive in society. But I have no idea how to
| convince people to think that way.
| qorrect wrote:
| > I used to take selfies to help neutrally assess my own
| mood. A lot of the time I was feeling something and
| unaware, but I could tell from the photo.
|
| What were you feeling that you could only identify by your
| outward appearance ? You don't have to look happy and
| smiling all the time, in many cultures ( Germany, France )
| people actively distrust people who do this.
| P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote:
| I don't think resting bitch face is about looking angry, but I
| understand your overall point.
| uuddlrlrbaba wrote:
| What is it about if not looking angry?
| P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote:
| looking unapproachable while having no facial expressions.
|
| Some people just look like assholes, it doesn't imply they
| look angry.
| dceddia wrote:
| > Some people just look like assholes
|
| Something I wonder about is how much of an effect movies
| and TV have had on what we generally consider to be mean-
| looking or friendly-looking traits.
|
| I don't know which way the cause-and-effect goes though.
| Do we instinctively as humans think that people who look
| a certain way give off an "evil" vibe, and that's why
| Hollywood chooses actors with those faces? Or have they
| trained us that certain faces are "evil" because they're
| always typecast as bad guys?
|
| One random example: when I first saw Kylo Ren in the
| recent Star Wars trilogy, my first thought was... I bet
| he's gonna turn good. His face is too friendly. If he
| were bad to the core they would've picked an evil-looking
| guy.
| P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote:
| Same thing with people who have a scarred face or have a
| British accent (for US audiences anyway). You almost
| always know they're going to turn out to be the bad guy.
| rewgs wrote:
| What else could it possibly be about?
| sedeki wrote:
| I agree that you don't need to change who you are by "fixing"
| something.
|
| But it is a weak argument for WFH by itself, don't you think?
| toomanyrichies wrote:
| I didn't say it was my only reason. I said "This is a huge
| reason...". There are quite a few others as well. I didn't
| list them, because they're irrelevant to the "Ask HN"
| question, and are therefore off-topic.
| sedeki wrote:
| OK, yes you're right - it would indeed be off topic.
|
| I actually recognize that line of reasoning myself. But
| since losing weight and working on myself (e.g. going to a
| therapist) I feel much better.
|
| My point is: There was bigger issues at play for me when I
| didn't want to work from an office...
| flippinburgers wrote:
| WFH also means interviews from home. I'm a slender person but
| am not obviously so in video form. I'm also not especially
| tall. Again, not obvious. So there are several nice equalizers
| about WFH that some people don't seem to consider. Anyway, I
| agree with you that WFH is too good to give up.
| whoomp12342 wrote:
| no. I am angry while I work.
| ultrahax wrote:
| Yeah, any time I'm engaged in deep thought, including coding, I
| just... look angry. I've had to explain to people at work that
| that's just how my face is when I'm working.
| Demonsult wrote:
| My concentration face looks like I'm daydreaming, and I've been
| called out for not paying attention.
| Hamuko wrote:
| I know that I at least sound angry.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| I look angry all the time, they call it "resting bitch face"
| egberts1 wrote:
| Yes. It is my ADHD coping mechanism to being able to mad-code at
| breakneck speed.
|
| A meek scowl is more than enough to keep water cooler longer-
| ongers away.
|
| I compensate that with dazzling and addicting presentations at
| meetings coupled with colorful proses.
| cirgue wrote:
| I set up a webcam to take selfies every few minutes last year
| because someone made the same comment to me. Turns out I look
| like I'm fully prepared to kill when I'm focused intently on
| something. Which is weird, because I'm rarely actually angry, and
| when my face is relaxed I look pretty genial.
| revskill wrote:
| I think it's not related (Angry vs Focus).
|
| Being angry while coding means you're using the wrong tech stack
| i think. Fix that.
| [deleted]
| breck wrote:
| Oh I do for sure. I don't know why. Curious to read responses.
|
| - Built with Rage
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| I can see myself without moving by changing focus. (Recently
| broke a screen and got a glossy as replacement and use a dark
| theme.) Look neutral but need to avoid scrunching between the
| eyes.
| erellsworth wrote:
| Yes. When I'm super focused on something my wife will walk in the
| room and ask my what I'm so angry about. I've also been told that
| my typing seems angry, usually when the words are flowing easily
| and I'm typing extra fast.
| sjm-lbm wrote:
| Yeah, for a while I had an office rep as an "angry typer" -
| that's exactly how everyone framed it. I guess my typing style
| was/is audibly more aggressive than other people when I get
| focused on something.
| xkcd1963 wrote:
| Idk. we just have to assume people are fine even if it is not
| expressed through their face. There are other indicators for
| distress, such as tears or literally angry faces.
| erdos4d wrote:
| I look angry most of the time and concentrating makes it much
| worse, so yes. That said, I'm a total introvert and very
| misanthropic in my outlook, so I actively cultivate the pissed
| look, it keeps people away and that's exactly what I'm trying to
| accomplish with it.
| jrootabega wrote:
| Yes, I was once interrupted by a co-worker while I was working,
| and he just said "Smile." Part of working in the panopticon.
| _jal wrote:
| The only reasonable response is aggression. Any asshole who
| does that deserves it.
| jrootabega wrote:
| I think the act was wrong, but the person was someone I
| otherwise respected and got along with. This is one of the
| things that the culture does to people when you pack them in
| like sardines. It's not natural to be looking at someone all
| day and not have an urge to just say something to them. If
| you manage to resist the urge, or worse, signal that your
| focus has value to you, you start to get branded as
| unfriendly. It's emotional boot camp to break down your
| individual identity.
| booleandilemma wrote:
| Not creepy at all!
| lostlogin wrote:
| Males saying this to females is very much a thing. Particularly
| older males to younger females.
| KineticLensman wrote:
| "I am Smiling!"
| tboyd47 wrote:
| Doesn't everyone? Coding is frustrating. Comes with the
| territory.
| ghoward wrote:
| I do.
|
| And like many others, I can also look like I'm experiencing other
| emotions because I am. But I have a resting angry face, and it
| gets more extreme the more deeply I am thinking.
|
| My wife works in a company with programmers, and they keep their
| webcams off during virtual meetings because, "We don't want
| people to see our thinking faces." Yes, that is an exact quote.
| unnouinceput wrote:
| I do. I'm frowning but I'm unaware. It is just my "I'm
| concentrated" face.
|
| Story time: Shortly after I was hired at SiemensVDO, my group
| leader came by just to say "Hi" and looking at him with my
| "concentrated" face I asked in a husky voice "What do you want?".
| Totally caught him by surprise, so he barely mumbled "I only
| wanted to say Hi" and walked away. The floor was open office,
| with at least 50 people in the room. He was known as a very
| severe manager, which demanded a lot from the programmers (also
| he was a former Uni teacher hired by Siemens 10 years earlier),
| and whenever he was entering our big room, everybody rushed to
| look busy and kept their head down, not wanting to be caught in
| his gaze.
|
| Funny thing about the situation is that I was unaware it was him
| when I said that, and only after he left I fully understood what
| just happened. In any case, he was severe but also a just manager
| and recognized hard workers. After that little incident he
| treated me differently than any other person in that floor. When
| talking with me he started using a "sweet" voice, reserved only
| for his bosses while continuing to use his "rough" voice with
| everybody else. I became "de facto" person to tell him unpleasant
| stuff for that room, and funny enough this led to an even better
| relation between us. One of the best managers I had in my 10
| years tenure throughout different corporations before I became
| freelancer.
| rr888 wrote:
| Best thing about WFH is being able to swear out loud every few
| minutes.
| ElfinTrousers wrote:
| People have told me that my "concentration face" is very
| forbidding. And I do tend to swear under my breath a lot while I
| work too.
| mcluck wrote:
| Yes. For some reason my concentration face looks like a rage face
| [deleted]
| adamsmith143 wrote:
| Probably. I often feel like I'm trying to beat the hell out of
| the code.
| replyifuagree wrote:
| This is one reason legacy companies have a hard time executing on
| software creation. They fundamentally don't understand wtf those
| engineers are doing. Just ITT alone there are engineers who have
| been characterized as daydreaming, angry and sad when in fact
| they were building "castles in the air, from air, creating by
| exertion of the imagination." to quote Fred Brooks.
|
| That sort of ignorance is death on a bun for software innovation
| in MBA heavy organizations where non-technical project/product
| managers rule the roost.
| bravetraveler wrote:
| Not only when I work... I generally look mad; somewhat
| permanently furrowed brow, I suppose
|
| I've also been routinely mistaken for somebody with military
| service history. I guess something to do with how I glare
|
| Skeptical it's about how I dress, it hasn't significantly changed
| since I was a teenager. Purely focused on comfort. I can't be
| bothered to buy clothes!
|
| I've also been told I have a smile that lights up a room; people
| can't make up their minds... or maybe it really melts this angry
| image
| giantg2 wrote:
| I've been told, by a coworker no less, that I have RBF (resting
| bitch face).
| thebigspacefuck wrote:
| Learned this tip from George Costanza: "I always look annoyed.
| Yeah, when you look annoyed all the time, people think that
| you're busy"
| vlod wrote:
| Well I am constantly muttering "FFS" while battling with my
| code/compiler, so maybe.
| jzm2k wrote:
| I have probably looked angry while working because people tell me
| I look angry in general, probably more so when I'm in focused but
| it has never stopped anyone from interrupting me while I'm
| working.
|
| Also mandatory Seinfeld reference:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kafq7yrKAOQ
| thfuran wrote:
| >but it has never stopped anyone from interrupting me while I'm
| working
|
| Are you sure?
| KurvaKing wrote:
| beardyw wrote:
| I read somewhere that there is feedback from facial muscles to
| the brain. They found people using Botox were actually calmer.
|
| May be apocryphal.
| amelius wrote:
| Also known as "INTJ Death Glare", https://intj-
| explained.tumblr.com/post/10233359295/the-death...
| h2odragon wrote:
| Yo.
|
| The more enthused I am about things the more scary I am to other
| mammals, apparently. Don't have any real advice to offer: I deal
| with it by working alone.
| FinalDestiny wrote:
| Relatable!
| AntiRemoteWork wrote:
| aliqot wrote:
| Yes, I'm angry. Stop staring at me asking if I'm okay. I'm
| commanding lightning to do my bidding.
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| Add a sign: if i look angry, I'm just focused.
|
| With a smiley
|
| And then don't care anymore :)
| thunderbong wrote:
| Earlier, people used to say this because they thought I was
| frowning. Actually, I was squinting!
|
| I had to get glasses.
| ralferoo wrote:
| The best indicator for how angry I am at work is the force I hit
| the enter key with, and the loudness of the resulting clack.
| design-of-homes wrote:
| I don't look angry when focusing at the computer, instead I just
| look miserable! You know how the corners of your mouth are turned
| down (looking miserable) and you simply forget how you look (even
| if you are peforming a pleasant task).
|
| I have to consciously turn up my mouth corners ever so slightly,
| relax my facial expression. It's not about turning into a fake
| smile. It can be a subtle change, but you immediately will spot
| change in your facial expression. And others (including
| strangers) will spot it too.
|
| Look in the mirror at your natural expression and try the
| _tiniest_ change to your expression. You 'll immediately spot the
| change to you expression.
| t-3 wrote:
| > You know how the corners of your mouth are turned down
| (looking miserable)
|
| That's just my normal face. When I focus, my eyebrows bunch up
| and I am told I scare people.
| joxel wrote:
| No, but I look annoyed while I work so everyone thinks I'm busy.
| Karawebnetwork wrote:
| Frowning faces are common while deep in thoughts.
|
| Personally, I sigh loudly. Not out of annoyance or fatigue, I
| just sigh.
| piva00 wrote:
| Yes, I do. Every time I've seen a picture of me when I was
| focused on something I look pissed.
|
| I can't control it though, it's just that naturally I get a frown
| with squinting eyes when I'm deep in thoughts, or looking
| sideways while I left my mind wander around the problem I'm
| thinking about.
|
| From what I observe with colleagues and friends it seems to be
| pretty natural as well. My housemates doing their PhDs usually
| look super-pissed when studying or analysing data at home.
|
| On top of that the general disconnect from the normal world when
| you are deep entrenched in your thoughts probably doesn't look
| inviting either, haha. I just think it's quite normal in my
| experience.
| leros wrote:
| I've been told I look scary walking around the office. I realize
| I walk quickly and determined on my way between meetings.
| Apparently it made me look aggressive and scary.
| codegladiator wrote:
| I just look clueless. I am not clueless.
| proto-n wrote:
| My SO always tells me I look worried while working. Used to ask
| me whats wrong, nowadays just accepts is as a sign that I 'm
| focusing.
| thomascgalvin wrote:
| My wife often asks if I'm angry or thinking.
| agentwiggles wrote:
| Haha, mine often says "are you ok?" - my response is always,
| "yeah, I'm just thinking."
|
| (usually thinking: stop asking me things, I'm THINKING! haha)
| amelius wrote:
| It might be that you are clenching your teeth while working. This
| makes one look angry.
|
| Solution: relax the masseter every now and then.
| sambalbadjak wrote:
| I don't know if I look angry, but I can make a lot of strange
| noises while programming.
| iambateman wrote:
| I make a point every hour to look away from my computer and smile
| with the biggest smile I can muster.
|
| My face tends to tense up toward a frown when I'm focused and the
| smile helps a lot.
| waltbosz wrote:
| Yes.
|
| Also, my 9-year-old daughter makes the same face when she is
| focusing.
| jimmydddd wrote:
| *My natural relaxed neutral expression is a frown. I have to
| exert effort just to position my mouth in a neutral (not
| frowning, not smiling) position. While walking to the coffee
| maker in an office, people will often ask me what's wrong. *On
| the other hand, sometimes when out in public at a store or
| whatever, I'll force a smile at a stranger, and they almost
| always smile back. *So I have to assume that my natural frowning
| face probably hurts my daily interactions.
| KptMarchewa wrote:
| American focus on looking happy or smiling when nothing happens
| that warrants it is truly bewildering.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I found out relatively recently that I look angry when I relax my
| face. It makes me sad to think how less approachable it has made
| me over the years. Maybe even lost me some opportunities where
| someone might have started talking to me or something.
|
| I don't care how I look while focusing on my computer screen,
| maybe that's a feature. But I do mind how I look when I'm just
| existing in the world.
|
| I now hold my face consciously in an ever so light smile and it
| has made a big difference. Especially when entering social
| situations like a bar or party. Damn you, Resting bitch face!
| wanderingstan wrote:
| I was inspired by a friend who saved hundreds of Webcam selfies
| of himself at half hour intervals. The face.com API classified
| the majority as "sad" or "angry".
|
| Mentioned in my Quantified Self talk here at 1m 15s:
| https://vimeo.com/42239564#t=1m15s
|
| This led to the development of LifeSlice, which lets anyone do
| the same, and I now have s as decade of 30-min periodic selfies.
| Not sure what I'll do with them all but it's interesting to see
| myself age. :)
|
| I don't look angry, but can confirm that I'm at best
| expressionless when concentrating at the computer.
|
| http://wanderingstan.github.io/Lifeslice/
| davidthewatson wrote:
| My favorite part about this is that it captures pandiculation:
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21665102/#:~:text=Pandiculat...
| .
|
| And makes me wonder whether a simple computer vision algorithm
| could classify frequency of pandiculation in the work and we
| could begin making correlations between pandiculation and
| perception of mood valence.
| wanderingstan wrote:
| Cool, "pandiculation" was a new term for me! Had not thought
| about the purpose of yawning and stretching before.
|
| For others curious, this page gave a better ELI5 definition
| for me: https://somaticmovementcenter.com/pandiculation-what-
| is-pand...
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Text anchors only work on chrome desktop fyi. It sucks. I
| once spent all night making a cool lisp tutorial based on
| text anchors, then realized 80% of the world won't see it
| since that's the percentage of mobile traffic.
| BugsJustFindMe wrote:
| It works for me on mobile Safari.
| JimDabell wrote:
| It works on Safari / Mobile Safari from 16.1 onwards (the
| latest version).
| sillysaurusx wrote:
| Oh, finally. Thanks for pointing that out. Indeed I
| haven't updated iOS in awhile.
|
| Guess I'll ship that lisp tutorial then.
| Beldin wrote:
| It works for me on Chrome Android. Not even running the
| latest version, so it's probably working for a while
| already.
| [deleted]
| CrypticShift wrote:
| I do. Now I try to consciously reconnect more with my (extremely
| sophisticated) face muscles (a mirror helps)
|
| IMO, our current lifestyle is certainly not making this any
| better.
|
| 100 years earlier, people communicated/worked with people face to
| face most of the time. Knowledge work (i.e in your head) was way
| less frequent. Screens, totally absent.
| r00fus wrote:
| One thing that I remember is a tough consulting project where I
| travelled every week to a customer site (note: long long ago).
|
| However, I did pick up some light morning yoga since my schedule
| was so packed I couldn't go to a class but I needed some
| additional stress relief.
|
| I noticed that after I started doing that (part of the yoga video
| involved actively relaxing your face), I tended to adopt that
| relaxed face a lot more. It was serene, welcoming - compared to
| my very intense normal visage given the stress levels.
|
| Suddenly people not only reacted to me in a much more honest and
| direct way which made things easier. I then decided to ramp it up
| and use that face explicitly on calls and meetings - where I was
| received very very well (even conference calls without video). I
| gained visibility with the client higher-ups. In fact, I could
| probably still be working for them if I wanted to (ended contract
| as my first kid was on the way - too much travel).
|
| It's not a lot of time investment and a great learning lesson.
| mrkeen wrote:
| Yep
| rozenmd wrote:
| I have total resting bitch face, folks sometimes ask what in the
| meeting made me so mad. Really annoying.
| bombcar wrote:
| Reminds me of a (Wodehouse I think) short story where a young
| man is told by his doctor to smile more and every time he does
| it anyone who is looking at him thinks that the smiler knows
| his dark secrets - resulting in all sorts of promotions and
| other good things, which he attributes to being "nicer".
| davidkuennen wrote:
| I always get the feedback that I look very angry when playing the
| piano. I guess it applies to me concentrating on other tasks as
| well.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| 100%. I do not look happy when looking at a screen.
| josh_fyi wrote:
| When I am in the zone and people talk to me, I have a tendency to
| turn around suddenly, startled and distracted.
|
| So, I have trained myself turn around suddenly with a big smile
| and cheerfully say "How are you doing :-) :-) :-)
|
| It seems ridiculous, but better that the alternative.
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